Naïveté

In an attempt to make life a little easier on their incoming freshman, Bob Jones University decreed that the newbies should wear a pin for the first week or so of the semester to let everyone know that they were to be given lenience with crimes such as being tardy to class.

So to convey to the world that this was the person’s 1st week at Bob Jones, they of course designed their pin to read:

There just aren’t enough facepalms in the world to do this justice.

185 thoughts on “Naïveté”

      1. @John, I think it’s an age thing. I want my 9 and 11 year olds to be unaware and innocent of such things, but at some point they must become wise. I also wish my children NEVER had to learn about the evil in this world, but that is pointless wishing for a return to Eden. We ARE in this world, and we can’t pretend it’s safer and purer than it is. It reminds me of the people who tried to censor Amy Carmichael when she wrote about what was happening to the children in the temples of India. The public didn’t want to hear about such perversion and degredation; they wanted to stay “innocent.” But Amy gave up her innocence to go inside the temples and helped rescue some of those little girls.

        If we wish to effectively battle against the forces of evil, we cannot close our eyes to it. Instead we must trust God to guard our hearts.

    1. I am glad my children are naive concerning gutter slang and initials for sex acts, and wish they could stay that way.

      We giggle that those Amish people dont know what “BJ”, “69” or some other code word for things that Paul said shouldn’t be spoken of in public are. “That naive backwards bunch!” giggle, giggle (insert Jack Chick “HAW HAW” here)

      …but I think they are better off in that regard. TO them, those are what thye are supposed to be—initials and numbers.
      😥

        1. I recently saw a documentary called Devils Playground that was about a group of Amish teenagers going through rumspringa. I found it interesting that the Amish allow their children to experiment in any worldly activity they would like but then openly accept them back into the fold if they decide the Amish life is what they choose.
          I also found it interesting how ill-prepared someone is for the realities of life when brought up in a strict home environment.

        2. I am familiar with it.

          I shoulda used homeschooled teens as an example then.

          Or maybe Mormons?

          Trekkies?

        3. Homeschoolers are only as innocent as their parents keep them. I made sure that awareness was part of my homeschooled kids’ education.

        4. I was homeschooled, but I learned most of my reasonably broad slang vocabulary from the internet (my parents were too far behind me technologically to figure it out). However, a homeschooled kid I knew at public university was in fact at least this naive. He didn’t even know the proper medical terms for a lot of things, and didn’t recognize the joke in a sign that said “amusements,” with the “amu” and “ts” not lit up…

        1. As an aside: homeschoolers generally ARE that naive. Sigh. Kinda embarrassing to go out in public with one that yells “Yep, I’m horny!” They might be innocent, but that much innocence is parental irresponsibility!

        1. That Anderson clip is one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen, and that’s not a phrase I use lightly.

        2. Typical…changing the Bible again. After all of these alterations over the years I wonder how much is really real. LOL

      1. I would not wan’t my college age son to be laughably ignorant of such things.

        We’ve been frank with our son on many a topic, and like, with many a knowledge, one has to go through a freshman understanding (one click past naivete), a sophomoric understanding (sophomore means “wise fool”), and a more mature understanding.

        Now, do you want your children to get such information on the school bus, from friends at school (I went to Fundy Prep, and I got the 411 on sex acts from fellow students), or by responsible and caring adults?

        Luckily (and ashamedly), we had to explain quite a few things to our son during the Clinton years, far sooner than we would ever had hoped. We didn’t have to go into great detail – it was all over the freakin’ news.

        1. I will never forget one Thanksgiving, one of the older ladies in my family, who suffers from old age, muscle tightening, and an extreme case of fundy naivete, boldly proclaimed her Christmas wish at the dinner table.

          “I wan’t a vibrator.”

          We all laughed so violently hard, one at our table threw up.

        2. I’ve been at a picnic with a fundy group, and one family was of the truly naive variety. The mother was telling a story about a dog named “peanuts”, but never once pronounced id correctly, mustve mentioned the dogs name (mispronounced penis) 25+ times, and everyone but her family was howling at a story that wasn’t very funny, and noone told them why it was so funny.

        3. OK, I can resist anything, except temptation:

          On a hunting trip, Dick Cheney and George W. Bush stopped for lunch at a roadside cafe. The waitress, a fresh-faced high-school girl, approached their table and asked for their orders.
          “I’ll have the usual,” said Cheney, “A steak, extra-rare, two dozen mountain oysters, and a glass of blood on the side.”
          Turning to the ex-President, the waitress said, “And you, sir?”
          Looking hard at the menu, W. said, “I’m not very hungry. Just give me a quickie.”
          Blushing deeply, the young waitress dropped her order pad and backed away slowly.
          Shaking his head slowly, Cheney said scoldingly, “George, I’ve told you before: q-u-i-c-h-e is pronounced “keesh.”

      2. I do have to disagree on people being better off not knowing. The line of thought that says people are better off as a whole if they are in the dark about things seems a terrible idea to me. Are there really parents out there that would really rather their children learned about sex (and all that sex entails out there) from others? I personally wish my parents had talked to me a bit in-depth about sex. Instead of having a constructive, safe environment to discuss what I was curious about, I had to learn from the internet – not the best, most constructive environment to learn about anything. Also, I was quite angry at my parents because I inferred (once I found out about sexual things) that they didn’t trust me with any knowledge. Bad parenting!

        TL;DR – Ignorance is bliss, as long as you plan on staying ignorant (read: obtuse) forever. If not, wise up and address reality constructively.

    2. John,

      As a homeschool graduate, PLENTY of my classmates know what BJs, 69, etc. are. In fact, many of them have first hand experience. Many of my fellow homeschoolers have spicier language than “sinners,” they have concieved (sp?) children outside of wedlock, get divorces after an young marriage, go “wild,” marry drug pushers, become agnostics/atheists, etc. etc. etc. And these are “good, naivee kids.”

      Protecting your young children is responsible parenting, hiding your kids from the realities of the world is plain stupid. Most of the time, the kids will rebel or become depressed/perfectionist.

      And it is kinda sad that ADULTS that run a university don’t realize that the intial BJ is probably not the BEST thing to plaster on their students chest.

      Also, who said that BJs are evil? It is a sexual act that a man and wife can participate in. I don’t see why we can’t know what it is?

      1. Jessica,

        You hang out with a raunchy crowd! 😯

        Those AREN’T “good, naivee kids.”

        What’s sad is that initials are to be rendered ununsable because of immaturity.

        And I never said such acts were evil. Just adult.

        1. Eh, I don’t hang out with them. But the joys of Facebook keeps me up-to-date on their life/beliefs/etc. They just happened to be homeschooling at the same time I was a homeschooler.

          And I wasn’t saying they are “good, naivee kids” NOW but they were “good, naivee kids” who didn’t watch bad movies, listen to secular music, go to public school, read Harry Potter/Babysitter Club/etc. They probably didn’t know what the sexual slang terms were either (like me.)

          My point was that keeping teenagers/young adults naivee does not prevent them from becoming “sullied.” In fact, extreme protection and naiveete (sp?) without any love, grace, etc. produces adults who rebel against what they considered “extremism.”

          Nothing wrong with protecting children. But there is a time and place to introduce teenagers and young adults to more mature themes.

        2. “initials are to be rendered ununsable because of immaturity”

          Not just initials, lets not forget about the number. Whenever I order from a Chinese restaurant I always say “I want 69”. And then the waiter says, “oh you want beef and brocoli”. 😎

        3. If I could render catch phrases like kjv,1611, soul winning, bus ministry useless with juvenile humor, I’d gladly do it.

        4. Oh no, John, do not insult Jessica or her friends like that. She’s describing exactly what happens when kids get sheltered too much and not prepared for what they will face once they are out in the world. It happens too much with homeschoolers and Christian school kids alike.

    3. I’m curious when naivete is ever a good thing? Obv there are maturity issues that pre adolescents should be sheltered from some knowledge/etc, but how is a naive 18yo a good thing?

  1. Do buy that? That its just naivete? I think at the very least its subconscious expression, but really I think its a chip that they are swinging. No one, NO ONE over 12 is this naive.

    1. Ditto. I’m having major cognitive issues dealing with this. IDK how homeschoolers with no TV/radio/friends would be the only way I could imagine this level being remotely close to feasible. I doubled checked my calendar ro make sure this wasn’t April 1st.

        1. That’s another option, but I have a hard time accepting grown adults in college administration saying they didn’t know is preposterous. That’s some serious disingenuity if they did this and pretended to not know

        2. There ARE students who don’t know. Of course, TV is even raunchier now than it was in the ’80s so it’s probably getting harder and harder to stay completely naive, but I was. I was also very sheltered and very obedient. But I agree with you that it seems very suspicious that NO ONE in administration spoke up about the connotations of this pin. Maybe some did, and the decision-makers just ignored it. It’s so suggestive. Couldn’t it just say “Freshman” or “New Student”?

      1. Sorry, Rob, but if you believe that homeschoolers don’t have friends… you are mistaken. I’ll just leave it at that, that’s like ignorant dark ages thinking about homeschooling. 🙄

        1. Lol I’m married and in the not not-always-sweet-mouthed military, and I had to google to figure it out.

    2. I found out what “BJ” stood for when I was at the mall with my boyfriend (now husband) and we saw a BJ baseball cap in one of those hat stores. They had a bunch of hats with college logos on them. I though it was amazing that a secular store would have a Bob Jones hat! My husband set me straight. 😯

    3. So was I. I was one of those sheltered homeschooled kids who didn’t know squat until I got to college, where my friends, some of whom were gay (I didn’t even know what “gay” was) decided to educate me. I can tell you from experience that being a sheltered adult is not a good or helpful thing.

    4. OK, I admit–I had one of those pins and wore it proudly. But I was NOT naive about BJ’s, it’s just that my mind didn’t work that way. It still doesn’t. When I see the initials BJ, I don’t think about a sex act. It just doesn’t register with me. Likewise, here at work, we have a board that shows when each person has scheduled time out. Wednesday–Mark out, Thursday–Time out. It took me a while to figure out why they’ve always written “Jack–off” instead of “Jack–out”.

      1. I told my co-workers about this button. After they stopped laughing, they started begging me to find mine and bring it in. Apparently they will pay for the privilege of wearing it on their uniforms. I sense a money-making opportunity here.

    5. Maybe Gray,

      I was that naive. I was educated in a small, Christian schools. We didn’t listen to the radio or watch TV. I honestly didn’t know most modern sex terms and slang until I got married and my hubby enlightened me. LOL 😎

      1. I think what people are forgetting here is that it’s not about what YOU think of when you see or here those initials used. It’s what “the world” that you are trying “to win” thinks of. When you approach someone in door to door “soul-winning”, don’t you want them to hear the “gospel” that you are sharing? Or do you want them to be laughing inside the whole time at the fact that you just called your school “BJ”? Honestly in their “corrupt” minds, that IS what they are hearing. I don’t get it…one second people are all about the “appearance of evil” and the next they want to demand the right to use it…but I guess I can just add this to the book of inconsistancies LOL.

    6. Unfortunately, I’m still naive on a good many of these things. Not intentionally mind you. It just happens. (I’m a married college graduate.)

        1. You’re right. Someone did comment that that was a rule at BJ. I never heard it while I was there, but then again, that was many years ago! I just keeping thinking, “To the pure all things are pure.” But at some point one does have to concede to the general culture.

        2. By “concede to the general culture”, I mean you can’t keep pretending that the college’s initials are completely innocuous or that “gay” still just means “happy.”

        3. pw – Keep in mind that gay is now used by the “younger” folks to mean stupid. So for someone like to me to tell my daughter to take out the garbage and she says, “that is so gay”, I have to stop and think, what does taking the garbage out have to do with homosexuality? Then I realize the cultural divide (i.e. I am gettin gold 😯 )

        4. @pastor’s wife, that is an excellent point. It seems like the fundie community wants to show how holy and “seperate” that they refuse to admit that some phrases, words, illustrations that they use are not appropriate when heard by the others. Does that make sense?

        5. It’s what I get for striking up a conversation with George…..Last part of previous comment should have read:

          (I am getting old 😯 ).

          I wish I was getting gold!

        6. @Jessica, I think you’re right. “We’re so holy we won’t acknowledge that there’s a perverted meaning to something.”

          But on the other hand, they also say, “We’re so holy we’re going to claim that completely innocent things are evil.” Like more than one piercing in an ear or the sound of a drum.

          @Scorpio, good point! Language does change! BTW, your typo reminded me of Robert Frost: “Nature’s first green is gold, her hardest hue to hold. Her early leaf’s a flower, but only so an hour. Then leaf subsides to leaf, so Eden sank to grief, so dawn goes down to day – Nothing gold can stay.”

          Or if you’ve read “The Outsiders”: “Stay gold!”

        7. No, they said it was at Midwestern Baptist College, not Bob Jones. That’s how some of those silly rumors get started.

        8. My dad still insists that gay means happy. It was one of my sister’s biggest annoyances that when she asked “What does gay mean?” he would only say “happy”. She said, “I know it means something else because of the way I heard it in context.” but he absolutely refused to give any answer other than “happy”. She was a teenager at the time.

        9. I’m the one who said it was at Bob Jones. I personally talked to the head of the Snack Shop about it. He shrugged and said it was totally out of his control. It was within the last 8 years. We were a large struggling family all going to the campus often with homemade packed lunches. (And who wouldn’t be struggling with 7 tuitions to pay) I couldn’t believe we couldn’t pack bananas to eat at the snack shop, but I know it to be 100% true. And all because some boys couldn’t keep their minds out of the gutters. Why the administration didn’t tell them to clean up their act instead of making a rule, I’ll never know. But then, that’s just it. If a guy sins, it’s no doubt the girls’ problem. Ahhh….I’ve just had it with all this nonsense. It was so totally NOT worth it.

        10. Amazed — no way. No freaking way. You are kidding me? That is why they do that? That is sick. SICK.

          All those women look like such pompous, stuck-up weirdos eating bananas with spoons. Shame on them all.

        11. I remember the first time I heard it announced from the pulpit at my former fundy church that he teens were going to so and so’s house for an “afterglow”. I was looking around amazed that no one was phased by the use of that term. I only always associate that with after sex so maybe this falls under the same thing as using BJ as if it couldn’t be taken any other way than the school initials. Sheesh, maybe my mind tends to always go there because when I was thinking of names for my kids I ruled out names that would give them the initials VD. 😯

  2. I love this, but I’m having a really hard time accepting as a real story without seeing a bunch of freshman wearing it. It just feels like a fundy u insider joke. A hilarious one.

    1. It’s not a joke, I wore one of those my first couple weeks as a freshman. In my defense, I was a fairly innocent homeschooler who had no idea why some of the seniors snickered when they saw the badge.

    2. The pins now display “Class of 20xx” to indicate freshman status. However, I’m pretty sure the BJ’s still there. Of course, that only means it’s not the first time…

    3. This is the real deal. I had one too. I just pinned it to my bookbag. Of course I was CLUELESS about what it meant until probably a good few years later (sad to say). Then it all made since to me why everyone snickered when I called it “BJ” or “BJU”…I was like “ohhhhh…NOW I get it!” WOW…lol. How embarassing!

    1. My secret is doing a Google search then copying and pasting from someone who has figured it out.

      There’s no way I’m memorizing that many keyboard shortcuts. 🙂

    2. It’s not too hard to put in accent marks, but it’s much easier if you install an “international keyboard” (it’s a software thing; you can use a regular keyboard for it). Then, if you’re in that keyboard mode (I happen to keep mine in it all the time), if I put an apostrophe before I type an “e,” it will come out with the acute accent é. I have to type a space to have it come out as an apostrophe instead. If you use them frequently (I can speak French), it’s worth the bother, but once in a blue moon, Darrell’s way probably works better.

    3. For anyone who happens to be using a Mac, type Alt+U and then a letter to get the trema/diaresis/umlaut/two dots (e.g. naïve, über, coöperate), or type Alt+E and then a letter to get the acute accent (e.g. résumé, née).

        1. It’s because it was she who led the future Man O’Gid into sin. After all, it was Eve who took the fruit first (never mind her husband was right there with her.)

        2. Greg: Oh yes. I saw it enough in my own church, and heard about it from others.

          A PK friend of mine told me that her father said that he would disown her if he ever found out she had sex outside of marriage. Later, she found out that he found out that her brother had been having sex out of wedlock, and he said simply “just don’t get anybody pregnant”.

    1. Yes!!!! To think of all the things I was unable to do because of the “appearance of evil”, yet this was approved. (My mother used to scold me for buying a tall bottle of sparkling cider for romantic picnics with my fiance – looked like wine, you know.)

      1. I know! In fundy world it seems like perceived evil is worse than actual evil. Not that sexual acts, in the proper arrangement, are evil but you guys know what I mean.

  3. Maybe it’s time for Bob Jones to change their name, but I’m sure they never will. Supposedly Dr. Bob Sr. didn’t want the school named after him but others insisted and he relented. Any suggestions?

    1. Loren: Actually, “kids” is right. A few of us in my class were minors, including me (started college on my 17th birthday). So yeah, several underage students were wearing those buttons. Anyone else see that problem?

  4. Of course there is Furman University just down the street a ways. At least one year their parking stickers used the shortened form. Somehow the BJ thing passed by me when I was a freshmen, but FU didn’t and I can’t imagine that it would to anyone.

  5. The 75th anniversary soccer game was awesome! With chants of BJU coming from one side and FU coming from the other, one would have been hard pressed not to chuckle a little bit. FYI, yes I am immature.

  6. My issue with it is that that leadership knows better. They harp on the evils of rock music, pop culture, internet, THEY KNOW and they designed it. How hard would it have been to just wrap “Bob Jones University” around the badge and leave it at that? Answer, not hard. This is cynical, I truly believe they pull stunts like this to out people, see who will snicker then take action. I went to a BJU satellite and its close to some of the passive agressive shiz that took place there.

  7. Now I feel weird, because one of my favorite restaurants to eat at is BJ’s Brewery and now it has *two* negative connotations to its name.

    Okay, the nonreligious connotation probably isn’t quite so bad as the other. And makes the phrase “BJ’s Brewery is one of my favorite restaurants to eat at” hella funny.

  8. Those pins are at least 30 years old! Also, the freshman don’t wear them now. They wear pins that say “class of 2014”.

    Back in the day, the freshman were to wear them for 2-3 weeks only. Most didn’t.

    1. I had my pin in 1987, and I know they were used all the way up to 1991.

      That said, if you can get your hands on a newer one, will you please post a pic for us? Let’s see if it’s an improvement. 😀

      1. I got a pin in 2002…and it looked just like the one in the picture. My brother told me to throw it away and never wear it LOL I totally did. I was a sheltered homeschooler who didn’t know any slang terms until I got a job in the real world and my coworkers about peed their pants when I told them that I was headed off to BJU…

    1. Hugs to you all and a pat on the back. We’ve been there. Just do a curious word study on the internet…that will teach you alot, more then you need to know, but it’s better to be informed – it’s the sex ed that most of us never had. Oh and a random rabbit trail along the same lines – Being a virgin on your wedding day…been there, done that. NOT reccommended. There is a difference between a best friend and a best friend who is a lover. ;-)The last thing you want to find out on your honeymoon is that you were wrong about that category. Just putting it out there…

  9. As a Furman University alumni, we always laughed when our (now deceased) former president would come down to the the football sidelines and lead the team in its traditional cheer – “FU one time! FU 2 times! FU all the time!” Somehow I can’t imagine Bob Jones doing the same thing.

    You can still buy T-shirts in the Furman bookstore that say “FU ’til you’re purple!” Furman’s colors are purple and white.

    1. …and on another note…

      Furman’s mascot is the Paladin, a knight in Charlemagne’s court during the time of the crusades. The apocryphal story told around campus was that instead of Paladins, they were going to be the Furman University Christian Knights until someone pointed out what the acronym would spell.

      1. That’s funny. Friends university in Wichita had the same acronym until they noticed. I think the name was originally Friends University of Central Kansas. Crazy.

    2. “You can still buy T-shirts in the Furman bookstore that say “FU ’til you’re purple!”

      And the corresponding Bob Jones t-shirt is, “Going to BJU.” Never saw anyone actually wearing that one, but it was in the campus store.

  10. Are rule necessarily wrong? All the service academies have them, and the purpose is to instill character. Bob Jones feels that they are preparing soldiers for the Christian race. They don’t hold that their rules and regulations make a person spiritual, and I have heard them say that you could fit in with all their rules and regulations and not be a Christian at all. Many of their policies are for an institution and not a congregation, and I havve heard them say that as well. There are many godly people at BJU and some wonderfully spiritual young people, so it grieves me when I see them maligned.

    1. “They don’t hold that their rules and regulations make a person spiritual.” No, but they do something just as bad. They believe that spiritual people WILL HOLD their rules and regulations. If you disobey a rule, you can end up on spiritual probation or even expelled because your spirit is not right with “God” (i.e., the school’s interpretation of the Bible and man-made rules that prove you are right with God). BJU’s board and administration is a bastion of pharisees.

  11. I’m guessing they didn’t have sit-down porcelain toilets back then. Some things are simply cultural. We use phrases today not in use years back, and vice versa. This fella disgusts me. I guess he was really reaching for a sermon topic, and how to prove his manhood and pound home the IFB, white-male leadership truth was on his list of things to continue to do. They have the thought first, and find a way to make scripture back it up.

  12. Yes, I definitely remember those buttons back in 1983… they were big too. I recall looking at it and thinking are these people that stupid…I immediately threw mine away. I also recall a fellow freshman asking where the line formed because he wanted to redeem his…funny stuff if you didn’t actually live through it…

  13. On a G-rated, but still funny, note: Fall 2011. A 50-voice youth choir from a Bob-Jones-approved church gets up to sing at a BJU festival, wearing striking gold-and-maroon-striped ties that make the choir a dead ringer for Hogwarts. Due to separatism, no one in administration caught the “association” of this particular costume with the evil Harry Potter franchise. But the whole audience was snickering.

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