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Heading to Somewhere Else

1,239 Comments

“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”
“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the Cat.
“I don’t much care where–” said Alice.
“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the Cat.
“–so long as I get SOMEWHERE,” Alice added as an explanation.
“Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the Cat, “if you only walk long enough.”
(Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Chapter 6)

Eight years ago I started down a road out marked “Out of Here.” Today I’m sitting looking at another sign named “Somewhere Else.” I think it’s better here. Time will tell.

Those eight years since SFL started have brought us 2,075 posts, 12 million visits, and almost 150,000 comments. A lot has happened in that time and we’ve experienced it together.

Yet with all the words written and replied, fundamentalism is not dead — mostly because fundamentalism will never die as long as human beings are what they are. Pride, fear, and greed are the ingredients we all carry with us; fundamentalism just has its own family recipe for the way they mix and serve them.

When Stuff Fundies Like started began to gain popularity about six years ago I told myself that every anniversary I would take stock of my personal motivations and the reasons I kept writing. Today as I sit here I can honestly say that the reasons are all gone.

I haven’t darkened the door of a fundamentalist church (or many other churches) in years. For me, my fundamentalist past has become a fixed point in time, a place I can’t ever really go back to because my personal story has changed and the fundamentalism I knew has changed. The old names and faces have started to fade away even while the methods remain.

The Independent Baptist movement is a shell of its former self. The winds of change are blowing and although you’ll always find IFB churches hiding in the hills and hollers of this land they’re quickly becoming a cultural oddity. Someday they’ll be spoken of in the same breath as the Shakers, Amish, and other breakaway sects who stood still while time marched on.

As for me, I’m continuing my journey to Somewhere Else which means moving on from here. The SFL archives will remain but (unless something unforeseen occurs) this will be my last post here.

The Facebook page and Twitter account will stay live so that I can keep touch with you all if BIG NEWS breaks out in fundyland.

You can also reach me over at darrelldow.com or my writer’s page where I’ve been doing some writing on other topics.

The forum will stay active for as long as I can afford the hosting. If you want to register just drop me a line.

I’m also toying with the idea of compiling a Best Of SFL book with my original pieces in it. If you’d be interested in such a thing let me know.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t take the time to thank so very many people who have supported, contributed, encouraged, chided, goaded, and otherwise made this blogging experiment one of the best experiences of my life. SFL took me halfway around the world. It reconnected me with faces I’d all but forgotten. It has brought me so many new friends that time would fail to name them all.

I love you all. I wish you joy.

I’ll leave you with this song that I recently fell in love with that gives a wish that seem so very appropriate for those who’s roads are taking them from Back There past my resting spot on the way to Somewhere Else. “I hope life without a chaperon is what you thought it’d be…and that all your favorite bands stay together.”

1,239 thoughts on “Heading to Somewhere Else”

  1. Let me add my humble thanks for SFL… I was transitioning away from a Hyles-type extremist church when I first encountered SFL, and it was a balm to my tormented soul (am I doing right? Will God judge me for leaving? Will my family go down the drain now that we are not attending “THE” church?).

    I have enjoyed the posts about the excesses in IFB world.

    I still consider myself IFB, but there is a great difference between then and now. Then, we were marinated and steeped in standards (spiritual people = those who tithed, went soul-winning, didn’t miss services, exalted the pastor). Anyone who didn’t do all of these things was not spiritual.

    Now, we are marinated in the love of people, and in the love of the Scriptures, and in the love of Jesus Christ. And what a difference that is!

    Thanks also to the posters who have been such an encouragement to me.

    I expect that Darrell will miss posting here, and may be back.

    I wish you well.

    2. Dear Guilt Ridden:

      God will not judge you for leaving. Some morning, you will wake up realizing that God has set you free. The gospel does that… 😉

      Christian Socialist

      1. I may not have been clear — those were our fears when we first stepped away from the controlling environment. We have truly found that Jesus’ yoke is easy and His burden is light since then.

        1. Isn’t it wonderful? So much guilt and fear before, which was confusing because we’d sing and read about peace and joy but we DIDN’T experience it. It’s because the Gospel was being warped. It truly is beautiful to rest in Jesus’ love.

    3. Guilt Ridden, since this is the last post and I haven’t posted here in a while (but kept reading), I’ll say something I’ve been thinking about a bit with respect to you in particular. You’ve been a unique voice here on SFL as one of the only ones who has seen the light on many of the same things as the rest of us but have still chosen to remain in the IFB. At times, your words have been thought provoking to me, at other times infuriating. I have come to realize I have some resentment for people like you who have somehow managed to make peace with the IFB rather than abandoning it entirely. It has felt to me at times like the easy way out to say you don’t believe some of the false teachings but you’ll stick around anyway. But on reflection, I don’t know that your choice has been the easy one. Certainly by choosing to remain in the IFB, you can be an apostle of God’s love to those who remain in darkness in a way few of the rest of us can. I’m sure your choices come with their own set of challenges, frustration, and heartache. I see you look for the best in people who would never do the same for you or me. Sometimes it’s been a necessary antidote to the IFB-bashing that is all too easy for me to engage in at times. Wish you all the best and I hope God will continue to work in your life and your church. Perhaps one day the IFB will chew you up and spit you out but in the meantime, keep up the good work and know you have earned the respect of many here in spite of occasional disagreements.

        1. Dear Guilt Ridden:

          This intrigues me. I sometimes argued that those who understand Scripture, know Biblical polity, are emotionally solid and have strong tries to sane faith traditions ought to enter fundamental situations to raise questions and to seek out those needing deliverance from it. If you intend to remain in the IFB, I encourage you to find some means to nurture your spiritual life and to retain such ties to saner expression of our undoubted Christian faith.

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

      2. I know that my journey isn’t over yet. While God has showed me many areas that need work, I am still aware of the baggage that accumulated in the Hyle-type church… some things have been relatively easy to overcome; others I still struggle with. The over-exalted position of the pastor is one I still struggle with from time to time.

        1. Dear SFL readers,
          Wow. This thread really hits home for me. Just found SFL a few months ago and still in a “Fundy lite” church. Still undecided about the future. I’m going through a time of doubt and questioning right now, and also a time of sadness. Not really doubting God or the Bible, but doubting much of the theology that I have been taught over the years. At first I thought it was only the legalistic rules of the IFBx that were the problem, but perhaps that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Part of me wants to run, and part of me hopes that I can stay and change the IFB from the inside out. Sometimes I think that just my presence there as a successful working professional is a positive influence for girls and young women. Please pray for me if you think to.
          WM

        2. Hi WM, for myself escaping was the only option. I saw that even small “changes” can’t effect the toxic teachings ingrained in the dogma. If you do leave, expect to experience sadness, pain, guilt, etc.. I guess, depending how long you have been involved. For myself, leaving was one of the hardest things I’ve done, as I devoted 19+ years of my life thinking I had the “truth”. 🙁 and trust me, the pastard did all in his power to scare, frighten and threaten us with his gawd’s judgement on us for leaving. Even so far as we were church disciplined/excommunicated and shunned to boot. That was over 8 years ago. It hasn’t been easy, but life is SO much better for us now. and I was in a crazy azz sect, that was Calvinist, which did not celebrate Xmas, Halloween or Easter. 🙁 soul sucking and again, I can’t express how wonderful it is to be free of it. 🙂 Good luck with whatever you choose.

        3. I knew that in the Hyles-type church there was no hope at all to change it… I still pray for friends who are still stuck there to see the light, but we had to leave.

          Though our current church is IFB, it seems more like a legitimate New Testament church — the members seem to have a real love one for another… the pastor seems like a truly humble man. Moreover, he preaches the Bible instead of just finding a “springboard” verse to rant about whatever is bothering him at the time.

          I think we are very blessed to be there; I could certainly pick at some things I don’t like, but there is so much more that has been good for our family, and for me as well.

  2. Darrell, thank you. I was a regular for 3 or four years as I worked out the kinks I was raised with in Fundamental Baptist beliefs. I laughed, cried and threw over the fundamental bondage. This was a healing place for me. And I knew it when I began skipping a day here and there, and then whole weeks. Next thing I knew it was a month. What happened? What happened was healing. A permanent one. Fundamentalism is now a paper tiger with no teeth.

    Be blessed, and I hope to see your writing flourishing. All the best to you and yours.

    So, I thank you, Darrell for your part in the healing.

  3. Darrell, I just want to add my thanks on. Your blog helped me see the ridiculous and dangerous beliefs of the IFB church when I was embedded in it. My faith was suffocating and I couldn’t understand why. Now I do! I’m plugged into a great, grace-filled church now and you’re one of the reasons I’m here! I praise God for you and your blog! May God richly bless you, guard you and keep you.

  4. Got to be honest, this is so sad. I am still in the IFB, however SFL has helped to open my eyes to so many things. I for one will miss this blog. I have certainly not agreed with every comment I have read, but this site has given me much to chew on and my hope is that others stuck in the mud of tradition will view it and begin a journey of thinking for themselves with the help of the Lord.

    1. Blessings, Michael!

      If you don’t mind, I’ll sum up some of the Biblical ideas that challenged my fundy mindset as I transitioned out of the IFB a few years ago.

      1. The parable of the sheep and the goats in Mt. 25 shattered my fundy attitude of avoiding the “social gospel.” I HAD to show God’s love in tangible ways, not just by witnessing.

      2. The popular fundy metaphor is a cliff, and they exhort you to stay as far away from the cliff’s edge as possible. But the Bible ACTUALLY talks not about a cliff but a path, warning us that we can get off track in more than one direction! “Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left” (Deut. 28:14).

      3. The fruit of the Spirit – I realized that many people around me who were considered godly because of their standards actually DIDN’T show the fruit of the Spirit as found in Galatians. I decided to start focusing on having THOSE attributes in my life instead of defining myself by what I didn’t do (not drink, not go to movies, not listen to CCM, etc.)

      4. The story of Michal mocking David’s worship in 2 Sam. 6 sadly reminded me of how we in the IFB criticized more exuberant worship in other churches. I was ashamed of myself for doing that and decided to never make assumptions or pass judgment on people singing praise choruses or raising hands, etc.

      5. A friend showed me that the third servant in the parable of the talents in Mt. 25 thought that the master “was a hard man” and that the problem was that the servant was SCARED of the master and didn’t even TRY. I’d always assumed that the master WAS a hard man, but maybe it was the SERVANT who was wrong. Burying one’s talent in the ground, too scared to even try to reach out because he might do something WRONG, sure sounded like ME and I didn’t want to be like that anymore.

      I’m sure God will speak to you in different ways, but these were some influential passages that moved me!

      1. PW, you’ve been a great influence on me through your kindness and grace toward others here.

        Your point number 5 is a lesson I too have learned – I have seen so much talent burying by bright young people with amazing gifts from God who are told “how do you ever think you’ll serve God with THAT???” and packed off to Bible college to receive the only talent that matters – a genuine bona fide IFB ministry certificate! So many of them (of us) eventually find their way back to the loves, talents, and abilities God gave them but it can be a long journey with many twists and turns along the way. I personally think parents, pastors, and mentors will give account to God someday for the talents they have encouraged others to bury. It’s also been a useful lesson for me to remember when I am tempted to judge others for how they use their talents to serve God and others.

        1. Deacons Son:
          First of all, I agree with you about Pastors Wife. She’s the best, and has blessed all of us over the years with her grace and wisdom.

          Second, I’ve been wondering where the hell you’ve been. We’ve missed you and your stories. I posted my IRL name and email addy, and if you’re ever in Alaska you better get together with me. I know where all the bodies are buried:)
          Jon

      3. PW,
        Thank you for your kind post. I actually had an IFB preacher tell me about this site. He did not do it in anger, but to show me what the world really thinks about the silly things we hold so dear. This site has taught me that most just laugh at the manmade standards IFB have.

        That is my journey, understanding the if my preference is tradition or truth. There is nothing wrong with traditions however they cannot take the place of truth.

        If God’s word says it stand with it. If God’s word is silent then don’t hold others to your own personal beliefs. I am still learning that lesson.

  5. I came here in 2011. I wanted to find out if there were others who felt like me about the world I grew up in. At the time, I felt guilt and shame for questioning it all. What I found was that I wasn’t alone, not by a long shot.

    Here, I was able to get all out the anger and resentment. Sometimes, I let it out in raw form. Sometimes, I let humor do it. From venting about the oppression of women in IFB to introducing the butt cushion as a way to have fun with memories of my childhood, I was able to heal through it all. (Which BTW, I had no idea it would balloon into what it did… It just went to show that so many others shared the same memories ).

    As I watched the IFB world as I knew it start to crumble, I did it with the SFL Community. We watched it together. It still crumbles, but it’s moving into other dangerous things, I’m afraid.

    But, now, I stand on the outside of it all. Happier and stronger, and with discernment and strength to not be afraid to challenge things that don’t seem right.

    You helped me get there, and I’ll love you all forever for it.

    I send you all my best wishes and love for the future. I only hope joy and happiness fills your lives.

    1. Gonna miss those butt cushions.

      You need in find me on FB or email me
      dgambill at Windstream dot net so we can keep in touch.

      1. Adding to contacts….. Are you on Twitter? I stalked Rob until he finally gave in and let me follow him. ;op

        1. Natalie – I think it would only be fitting if you were to help me “close up” the cockpit. I know you’re curious.

        3. I went up there once….. I’m. Never. Going. Up. There. Again.

          In fact, can I just change my flight?

          ;op

        7. My snarky reply to this and other comments got lost. Now I forget what it was. It was so blindingly brilliant that my mind can’t piece it together now.

  6. I have really enjoyed it! Thanks for your work. I will definitely being following that twitter account for the news.
    I’m praying for you and yours.
    Thanks, have fun!

    Greg

  7. Just curious if you are having to screen any “Yay, he’s going away” comments from the faithful indepedunt bible buleivin’ soul winnin’ bus ministry types?

    1. Over the past eight years it has not been my habit to moderate comments just because I don’t agree with them.

      I don’t see any real reason to start now. 🙂

      1. Darrell, it’s what I have appreciated about the blog. I haven’t always agreed with every comment, nor I have always appreciated the “blue” language, but I understand the need to vent and the importance of uncensored dialog.

        By the way, I’m Karen LINN Glovka. I still had some friends in the movement that I appreciate, so thought best to go by my middle name. Again, thanks for all you;’ve done to confirm my thoughts that leaving Fundydom was one of the best things I ever did.

  8. Stay tuned for a new blog entitled “Stuff TGC Worshipers like” because that is where this movement is going. Drop the ties, add hair gel and Buddy Holly glasses, find a reformed guy to worship and ignore his faults and replace Jack Hyles with said person, and there you go. Repackaged and ready to go.

    1. This is so very true. There’s a franchise church (as I like to call them) here, and the guy is just a beefed up, gelled up, young Jack Hyles. He’s even on TV. I ran by his broadcast yesterday, and just had to laugh at the fact that his whole outfit was to show off his Air Jordans. I felt like I was in fourth grade again.

    3. Agreed. As much as TGC was helpful to me at first, I’ve noticed extremely troubling rumblings in that direction. People who frequent there seem to also like Doug Wilson, and he’s a fundy MOG with a slick new paint job. It’s scary, and much, much more insidious because on the outside they look so normal.

  9. Thanks for everything Darrell!

    Good luck wherever your internet roaming may take you. And enjoy the extra time not worrying about this place – or the fundies. Relax, and enjoy.

    And thanks for all the laughs, and insanity.

  10. Darrell,

    My wife struggles with the deepest guilt and doubt because of her fundy upbringing. Though a recovering sycophant of a fundy preacher myself, my experiences were too different to help me relate to her. She found community and fellowship here that became a shining ray of light in the darkness for her. I know it can’t be an easy decision to move on but you have done very good work here and we thank you so much for your dedication and the sacrifices you made to keep SFL going for as long as you have. I made a promise to my wife not to let on who I am here since several fundy family and friends of ours are known to roam through here looking for heretics to uncover but I believe we are connected elsewhere online so I hope to hear about whether you go for the book or not! We’re 100% behind you on that idea and would love to see it happen!

    1. Dear BigHoss:

      Perhaps a few of us should continue to lurk in the event some of them turn up to gloat or badmouth what you and others have posted…

      Blessings!

      Christian Socialist

  11. Thanks for everything, Darrell. I’ve enjoyed this site and the subjects tackled for several years. I’ve always enjoyed your sarcastic humor as well. 🙂

    SFL was there for me when I was making my own exodus from Fundyland. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to accomplish next.

  12. Hello Darrell, thank you for hosting the blog. It was important part of deprogramming myself from the IFB cult. I don’t visit the blog much as I use to, the IFB was my past and I try to live in the present.
    If you get a chance to see Dawes live, do it.
    I will leave a long distance dedication, “Getting Ready to Get Down” by Josh Ritter.

    Mark

  13. Darrell,

    Regardless of what path you walk:

    May the LORD bless you and keep you,
    May He make His face shine upon you
    and be gracious to you,
    May He look upon you with favor
    and give you peace.

  14. Well this kinda sucks…no more SFL. But all good things must come to an end. Let me be the first or the second to say that I love you Darrell for the work that you have done here. Thank you for being honest, no matter where that took you, you were and always have been honest.

    As I say farewell I want to thank a few posters: Don, I think you should be a pastor somewhere, you have a mastery of the scriptures and a true love for people. Pastors wife, your posts were always filled with your love for Jesus and others. Rgtmath, although I don’t agree with you on much, your love for truth was a constant challenge to me and has changed my thinking in a few areas.

      1. Sorry to screw up your name “it’s RTG”, I’m just getting old. I wish you nothing but success in your new job. If you still stay in touch with Nico, tell him the same. Thanks for your honesty Raymond, I found you to be very transparent. We should all be that way.

    3. Thank you, Bill! How simple and beautiful Christianity becomes when it’s not about going to church three times a week, going on visitation, wearing certain clothes, etc. but rather about love. God bless!

      1. Dear Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:

        What was your blog address again?

        Christian Socialist

        3. That domain thegreaterkey.com is unregistered. The link goes to a level3 domain search for me for when a domain is unregistered. Am not sure where it goes for anyone else, but it’s available to be registered by anyone currently on whois.

  16. PLEASE DO THE BOOK!!!! I for one would buy it in a heartbeat!!! Thank you for your service. I read your posts with great interest and although I didn’t always agree you did provoke me to think and re examine some of my own motives and upbringings, especially of the Jack Hyles era. I still refer back to your book on Fundamentalism and still enjoy it. God speed my friend – hope to see new projects in the future!!

  17. I’ve drifted away from SFL in the last couple years, for no other reason than life bappens. But this was a great community to be part of, especially after coming out of the closet and leaving fundamentalism. I found some wonderful people here, including many who believe that being gay is wrong, but didn’t let that stand in the way of friendship and human decency. Lord Don, Scorpio, RobM, PW, and so many others, we had lots of fun, spirited debates, beating down the trolls, and lots of laughs along the way. I’ve had the privilege of meeting several of you in real life and others are FB friends who I hope to meet eventually. Most importantly, this is where I met Tchaikomaniac who is family to me now, a sibling closer than my blood relatives.
    Darrell, thank you for this blog and forum. You’ve done a lot of good and affected a lot of people, in more ways than you’ll likely ever know. So here’s to meeting many more of you around the White Piano, especially George, that most mischievous of imps.

      1. Hey, it wouldn’t be right if George left us alone on this final post! He has to get in the last laugh!

    2. I really wish we could meet around a piano someday, white or not! What an awesome community this has been!

      1. Me too. I would so love to meet you all in meat space. You all have meant so much to me.

        SFL reunion meetup in the future?

        3. Could we come if we didn’t comment much but loved reading it and found comfort and chuckles there?

        5. Dear formerHACgirl:

          This is the time to make connections …

          williamsimmonson at gmail dot com

          Christian Socialist

          PS: You also, pastor’s wife!

        7. Dear CaffeinatedSquirrel:

          ‘Ba – Ha’ba?

          Well I’ll be! I spent a weekend there more years ago than I care to remember. Never ate so much lobster in one sitting in my life! LOL! Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

        2. An off the wall question CS. In what city area is your church? I get to southwest Ohio occasionally.

    3. It’d be wonderful to meet many of you around the White Piano some day, though we should have a backup landmark in addition, lest some of you be left unable to find it. 😉

        1. *solemn voice* You are either for the White Piano or against the White Piano. Choose ye this day whether ye will see. Or not see.

    5. We had one heckuva battle at the “Open door/Closed door” corral that night didn’t we. I often wonder about John and if we made any lasting impression on him?

      1. Ah, John. The one that Greg of the Forum so desperately tried to match. Those were some epic duels.

        1. Let’s not forget our friend Brian in NH, the one who so delicately and kindly used the term ‘innately ignorant’.

          I wear the moniker with pride. Nothing like an insult gone wrong.

      2. Yes, the open door/closed door corral battle. That was when so many of us realized this was more than just a blog. It was a community of friends. So many diverse people, including TEH GAYZ, getting along because we were decent human beings to each other. Something hardcore fundies are incapable of doing. It is their loss.

        1. That reminds me of a meme I’ve seen lately on the Interweb. It goes something like this:

          A Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Pagan, and an agnostic walk into a bar.
          … And then they sit around a table together and talk and have refreshments and make friends, because that’s what happens when people aren’t assholes.

  18. I have read your posts as a quiet observer since 2011. I have been out of the “fundie” world for years. However, because my dad was a Baptist minister and I am a 1975 graduate of the BJU, I always looked forward to sitting down and checking in with SFL to see what I had left.
    I will miss you. Now I will have to find someplace else to go to on those late nights when I need a chuckle and a “another” confirmation that I made the right move. I did indeed make the right move and I continue to appreciate, and not make excuses, for my relationship with the Lord.
    Thank you for being there for all of us who have “moved on”. You will never know know how much you did to bring us all together. I wish you the very best best in whatever you decide to do.

  19. Dar-El,
    Thank you for your labor of love that went into SFL. I deeply appreciate and love you and all of my brothers and sisters here. It’s become like church to me (since I don’t attend church. Because triggers.) Except that in the church of SFL, we could all speak freely and openly. We were only censored by the occasional troll.
    Love to you all,
    Jon Owen
    palmeralpha1 at gmail dot com

    1. Praying that *someday* you will be able to find a church that will not “trigger” you, but will instead help you develop a closer relationship with God the Father and with Jesus the Son. *that* is my prayer for you, Jon .
      Blessings!

  20. I stumbled upon SFL 6 years ago when a missionary co-laborer was exposed for serial adultery and a longtime cover-up, and in looking for the truth, I found out that his situation was just part of a troubling IFB pattern. Later, I was initially ashamed that this site served as the “breaking news” of Schaap’s scandal for me (he ordained me), but now I gladly tell people that I am a loyal lurker of SFL; seeing their often uncomfortable reaction is amusing to me. Though I am still deep in the IFB movement, I check this site everyday, and it will be sorely missed. Thank you, Dar-El, for your work on SFL, and for showing me how to be “normal”. I also offer a general thanks to the frequent commenters; you rebuked me into understanding how to post without resorting to personal attacks, something that has kept me out of trouble on FB also. Darrell, I enjoyed the excuse you gave me to connect with you by email, after I shockingly saw myself on SFL in a featured video from several years ago; you answered me honestly and kindly, making me a big fan of yours.

  21. I’ve finally come to a point where I don’t think about my past every day. It’s wonderful. I hope you’ll be able to get to that stage as well, Darrell, if you haven’t already.

    Anyway, your site was a great help. When I was finally able to be honest with myself, and others in my life, I was glad to see a large community of ex-whatever-they-used-to-believe people who could come together against a common foe. I’m done fighting that foe, and done bitching about them as well. They will always be around in one form or another. If televangelists can still emerge after a disastrous embarrassment, so can they.

    I wish everyone here the best, and hope you get to a point where the past no longer crosses your mind.

    Thanks a million SFL.

  22. I’ve been visiting here, and occasionally posting, the past few years. Sad to see it end, but I wish all the best in your future endeavours. This has been a remarkable blog to spend time on.

  24. I’ve only commented on a couple things, but this site has been healing in its craziness. I grew up in fundy-lite, I guess, but the scars were still there and I didn’t even realize it until I found SFL a couple years ago. Thank you, Darrell, and all the commenters here, for being able to look at such a painful past and not only work through it yourselves but work through it for all the rest of us as well. God bless in all your future endeavors!

  25. I don’t even know if this will work, but here’s a song that sums up the SFL experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9VsF8sCGec

    I’ll admit that SFL is not a site that I enjoyed. Sure, it had it’s funny moments and it’s true moments. More than anything, it made me sad. It made me sad that people got so turned off by religion that they threw the baby out with the bathwater and decided to bash anything remotely Christian or conservative, whether or not it had anything at all to do with IFB. It seems as if this is what SFL became, although, to be fair and honest, not every post or poster this could be said of.

    Years before SFL was even in existence, this country song summed up what could have been SFL. This man laments the religiosity of those who are overly concerned with the externals and are engrossed in their own self-righteousness. The beauty of this song is that the artist is honest enough to see past the frailty and failings of man, but not reject the God that these same men claim to honor. I hope that we all can learn to look past man and see the true love and forgiveness that is offered by God, regardless of what others say or do.

    1. I see where you are coming from, and once upon a time, in a fundy zone far far away, I’d have said the same thing.

      But you are wrong. People here are not “bashing anything remotely Christian.” Nor do I see them “throwing the baby out with the bath water.”

      Every person reacts to the hurt and suffering dealt to them in different ways, and you are coming close to telling us our hurts are not real, not legitimate.

      God ought to be big enough and kind enough to let us cry, scream, and rage — and send us comfort and healing. Perhaps some of us, if gifted with a God who actually understands and cares, might “come back” to the important things, though not the hurtful ones!

      Christianity has been irreparably damaged by its most strident and unforgiving people. Christianity has become about doctrine, about blind obedience to evil men. It ought to be about Christ. If I reject the false to clear away the clutter from the True, then I think I’m moving in the right direction.

      Just my 2 cents’ worth.

      1. The public image of Christianity right now is the worst I can ever remember.
        It is so damaged that I’m not sure it will ever recover.
        The good and love-filled Christians are still there, as they have been for 2000 years.
        But the hypocrites, swindlers, and hateful fear-mongers have almost all the public attention these days.
        And churches have largely themselves to blame for this.

        1. Dear Big Gary:

          It will. Of that, I have no doubt whatsoever. But I am acutely aware that tremendous change must occur first.

          We will have to relinquish and renounce our craving for political and social power. We will have to become outcasts and walk with outcasts. When we do, we may find ourselves walking beside Jesus Christ.

          Therein lies our recovery…

          Christian Socialist

    2. I don’t see most people here rejecting God. And we need not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We must also be savvy enough to THROW OUT THE BATHWATER. The bathwater is beyond saving. I doubt the baby has been in it for a long time. And if it is, it should be mercifully removed.

      We need not hang onto the religiosity because men are frail. We need not be conservative to be Christian. In fact, I think that conservativism will be the death of our current brand of Christianity. The Church will march on, but Americanianity MUST change or it will become a small, shriveled, angry thing, a sort of a Gollum of religion. Sadly, I see it headed there already. I see friends being drawn into the Patriarchy movement; I see them being trapped into the idea that a set of rules will bring them closer to God. It breaks my heart. We don’t throw God out when we throw out these entrapping ideas. We invite him in.

      2. Dear CaffeinatedSquirrel:

        Truly excellent! My FB friendship request is pending…

        Christian Socialist

        1. Whoops! I may have turned down your friendship request because I didn’t recognize you. I am chagrined. I humbly request another?

      3. CaffeinatedSquirrel, well put. I spent many years in the rules equal godliness movement, hearing that anyone who didn’t match our system was wrong, and not “really saved”. The bathwater in that system is so filthy you can’t even see if the baby is still in it.

        It could also be argued that anyone who uses Johnny Paycheck to explain their religious views has some serious theological shortcomings.

    3. It made me sad that people got so turned off by religion that they threw the baby out with the bathwater and decided to bash anything remotely Christian or conservative, whether or not it had anything at all to do with IFB.
      I guess you don’t really read here very often or carefully then. I had almost the opposite lament – people who were willing to agree that hideous behaviors like predation were wrong, but refused o open up their brain and consider that perhaps their cherished beliefs were not in fact defensible. But I guess everyone has their own perspective.

  26. Thank you, Darrell for your efforts through the years. It has been a source of healing for many. Whenever someone asks what my life was like growing up…I just pointed them to your site and said “A lot like that”.

    I’ll miss seeing the posts, and the comments from so many. PW, your comments have been especially gracious. There are many others that I could mention, but I would miss some. However, I don’t want to miss the opportunity to thank you for your presence on the site….it made something good even better.

    Farewell and best wishes to all of you.

    And Darrell, if you are ever in the OC, a cold one is on me.

    Patrick

    1. Patrick, thank you! I can’t even try to name all the people that I’ve enjoyed talking with here. It’s been such a wonderful place to laugh and learn and explore and vent and snark.

  27. Thank you so much Darrell for this site and your work here which I know has been a significant sacrifice at times. I’ve been away for several months because my identity was discovered and I received threats so SFL was no longer a safe space for me, unfortunately. I’ve loved getting to know so many of you and will miss you all and wish you all the best!

    For some who are reading this (and you know who you are) I am sorry for any hurt I have caused through my participation here but I am not sorry for telling the truth and odds are quite good you haven’t heard the last of me.

    My wife and I had already departed the IFB when I found this site searching for some truth behind the West Coast sham. I found that here and so much more. Your stories gave me hope to realize God’s grace is powerful enough to rescue many from bondage to false doctrine and creative enough to do it in so many different ways beyond what I might have expected. So I still have hope for those in my corner of the world who have not yet been set free. Even some in my own family are ever so slowly starting to take baby steps in a better direction. In other ways, things are worse than ever. I would ask those who have come to know me here to pray for me and my family when you think of any of us.

    God bless you all!

    1. Deacon’s Son, I wish you and your wife every possible blessing.

      One other thing: Write that book!
      (Much of it is already done, if you combine all the stories you’ve posted.)
      And let me buy the first copy.

  28. No! So grateful for this site. It has brought me many a laugh. Thank you so much for your work, blessings wherever you end up, and yes please do put the best posts in a book. That would be hilarious.

  29. Darrell, I was so sad to read that the SFL blog has ended. It has been such a help to me. But I do understand your need to move on, and look forward to reading your writing/posts in other venues. Thank you very much for this gift.

    Will the SFL blog continue to be accessible,even though it won’t be updated? (I might want to save a few favorite posts.)

    Will we be able to comment to old posts?

    I am glad the forum will still be a place where we can communicate, and I hope everyone will join.

    http://sflforums.com/

    1. I had tried to join the forum but when I click on register the message says it is not accepting new members.

      1. Try again, Shy1. Darrell posted on fb today that he opened up the forum today only (temporarily). After he closes that, you will have to send him a request to join. See the message at stufffundieslike on fb.

  30. Thank you Darrell for creating this community. SFL opened my eyes to the problems in the IFB, and after I left the community here helped me when it felt like my world was falling apart. I didn’t post much, but lurked often. The community, the love, even the disagreements helped me process through things.

    Thanks you all so much.

  31. Darrell,

    SFL was like a porn site to me. I came and reveled and read and then felt guilty…but then always came back for more. It was addictive. I THINK I will miss it.

    I wish you well in your new endeavors and as you seek His peace.

    jlp

  32. I’d be remiss if I didn’t also add my thanks, Darrell, for the site. I found it when already out of the IFB, but keeping up with the posts and comments has helped immensely.

    Like others, I found going through the comments to be challenging as well. No one can possibly have it “all figured out,” and I’m thankful for the many discussions over the years that have threatened my status quo and prompted me to re-examine why I believe what I do.

    I’m looking forward to keeping up with you all in the forums.

  34. Darrell,

    Best of luck in the future. Thank you for opening your site to me when I had to work through a very difficult time in my life. I have certainly enjoyed our conversations both on here and in real life.

    Keep writing; it’s a bandage for the soul

    Josh

      1. Thank you, sir, I feel the same way. I also appreciate the people here putting up with my bitterness and identity confusion.

        B.R.1

    2. “Perhaps we can all move on now.”

      I recently visited the ex-jehova witness subreddit, and one of the moderators was saying their goodbyes. Their reason for leaving the community was because being an ex-jw was no longer part of her identity. It wasn’t something that made her, or influenced her anymore. For her, it had been 20 years since she left.

      I hope to get to the point where that specific part of my past no longer defines me in any way, certainly much sooner than 20 years. Walking away from the constant reminder of those things, namely a site like SFL, can be tough. It’s a nice echo-chamber. It also helps to talk these things through. I suspect one leaves when they’re ready.

      At some point the resentment and regret has to stop, and you got to move on.

      By the way, change of subject, we think that us ex-fundies have it hard, I can’t imagine what the ex-jw community goes through. Every year the new-comers post a photo of their FIRST CHRISTMAS TREE. That’s the least of it. Their stories about losing family over their decision is pretty heartbreaking stuff.

  36. I found this place quite awhile ago, when coming out of fundyland….It was nice for a short while…then I realized “conformity” was demanded here almost as much as in fundyland!…One had to walk and talk the SFL line in order to be accepted…..beginners learned quickly to conform or be “kicked out”, much like…..yep…the IFB!

    I’m delighted that I escaped the IFB with a very strong and vibrant faith….I’m also glad I escaped SFL with it’s political correctness….I will remain my own “man” and will not bend or “play nice” when the word of God speaks clearly!

    1. I’ve seen a lot of non-conformity here, greg.

      The people who draw the ire are the ones who come in here condescendingly and sneeringly. They spew arrogance and insults. Some have heeded the rebukes. Others, like Brian from New Hampshire who never encountered Fundystan in all its profanity as many here have, chose not to heed correction and have earned the ban hammer.

      It’s very simple to be here, actually. Don’t be a male sex organ. We may not agree with other’s views, but if you’re not an MSO, people here are generally tolerant of differing opinions. If someone comes here and can’t tolerate the content there is always the option to leave.

    2. Greg, I think you confused people defending their positions from unwarranted personal attack with “political correctness.” You’ve seemed to have a bent toward that. Where I and others challenged ideas, you tended to attack people instead of talking through the ideas.

      Yes, we attacked fundies on the outside, the MoGs, the leaders for the things they did and said. Then you attacked us. And, not to our credit, we came back at you. I did. For that I am sorry.

      But let’s be clear. You weren’t attacking political correctness. You were attacking people here. Not nice.

      Now I am pretty sure we tried to help you see the difference. It didn’t do a lot of good.

      A lot of us are fed up with the “spiritual correctness” of fundamentalism. We see the unholy alliances made with political power. We see the abuse heaped on the poor and the helpless, the lack of love, and the desire for control. And we are going to call it out.

      But even if we disagree, and we do, there is no need for malicious personalities. We could still remember that Christ indwells the believers, whether they are in agreement with us or not.

      So, can we give it a rest? We aren’t your enemy. And you didn’t “escape” from SFL. No one kept you here. No one indoctrinated you. You were welcome when you weren’t attacking people.

      1. I completely disagree with your assessment of my time here….I didn’t “attack” people!….it is just this attitude that you expressed in this comment…..the “I am right, you are wrong” or “I’m confused” that got my dander up….So I’m glad for your comment, because this is a perfect demonstration of the problems I have here with SFL “group-think.” …actually “group-think” is a much better descriptor than political correctness, for goes on here at SFL, but there was plenty of PC here too.

        But that being said….I wish no one here any ill will…. it does seem to me like folks that came out of the IFB and found SFL, seemed to sometimes go too far…it was wonderful to be able to begin to walk in Christian love and freedom, and that was a great feeling and experience, but just as we are warned in scripture that some folks may have begun to use this “freedom as a cover-up for evil” (1 Peter 2:16)

        2. Group-think? SFL is about as far from group-think as I’ve seen in a community that nonetheless managed to remain mostly cordial to each other. Of course, the fly will always complain that the ointment is at fault. But the fly is the problem. If you can honestly maintain that you didn’t attack people, then you are staggeringly un-self aware. Fortunately, that never stopped most of the rest of us from enjoying each other’s company, both in agreement and sometimes sharp debate.

        3. greg – you were banned multiple times from the forum. Let that sink in for a minute. You thought you were banned because of the “SFL agenda” but it really was because you were acting like a jerk to multiple people. In your mind someone who disagreed with you was attacking you. So you lashed out and attacked anyone with a differing opinion.
          You became a caricature because you were so predictable with your tirades against Calvinism, Catholics, the GAYZ, liberals, the Jon Stewart show, democrats etc. etc.
          But you will never see the truth. You are blinded by the hatred you harbor in your heart against those not like you.

        5. “Acting like a jerk”….is that personal?

          “In your mind someone that disagreed with you was attacking you.” …….Hey, looks like in addition to his many other wonderful gifts, he “reads” minds too!….SFL was lucky to have you all these years….Now I guess you’ll have to go back to only getting validated by your dog!

          “lashing out and attacking anyone with a differing opinion” ……Is that similar to what you are doing to me right now? This is fun…..No matter what you folks (some of you do) You cannot see yourselves in your own stupid comments…..You do to me, EXACTLY what you accuse me of doing to others….But the fact you can’t see it….HILARIOUS!

          On a more serious note…Accusing me of hatred, IS very personal….My faith is strong and deep, and this demonstrates that you neither know nor care about me whatsoever!

        6. Um…back attcha? Pot=kettle?. Time to realize we all interpret the scriptures differently. Because of this saying those who differ ate not Bible believers seems narrow minded. If only a very few get the Bible exactly right and the rest are non believers we are under estimating Gods mercy and grace.

        8. greg – Anyone that has been here for a while and spent any time on the forums know what a hurtful person you were to people. It is the reason you were banned. It is the only reason why you were banned.

          You can try and spin it anyway you want to now. But the fact remains you said enough hateful things that you were banned from commenting on the forums. No amount of deflection on your part changes that fact. That says a lot about someone. As I said in my previous comment, let that sink in.

        9. I was “arbitrarily” banned by Darrell (big whoop!) ….there are people that were and are vastly more “hurtful” to folks than I ever was, and allowed to stay on….Darrell permitted all types of hurtful, indeed vile talk and language on SFL….As long as it was directed at the right target (me, or others that didn’t toe the SFL group-think line) it was ok…I even recall a woman physically threatening someone on SFL and she was allowed to stay……Letting the fact “sink in” that I was banned from SFL, is not much of a big deal……Reminds me of safe zones being promoted on college campuses these days……You folks didn’t want your little world challenged….

        11. Nope, Scorpio was the Teacher’s Pet. He had a nice comfortable cage at the back of the room 🙂

    3. Greg, I hear you on some level. I have been tempted multiple times to forsake SFL because some of the things I believe would never ‘fly’ if I tried to discuss them here. But I don’t believe I would be shunned by the majority just for expressing my crazy beliefs, unless I was really adamant that people take me seriously. And I’ve realized that many of the things I believed strongly I’m no longer so sure about. Maybe I’m being a wimp and a conformist, I don’t know. I know that I continue to learn and challenge my worldview here, and I think that is necessary for growing. No doubt you have the harder path because you do believe certain things strongly and can’t simply set them aside for the sake of conversation. But many have learned to do just that, being very selective about when to speak and when to leave those they disagree with to their own conversation. I guess in a way you’ve done that by leaving SFL. I hope someday we can all turn a new leaf and see everyone as a human being worthy of dignity. For what it’s worth, I’m sorry if my words ever offended you.

      1. For me the big question becomes, “Are beliefs more important than people?”

        Fundamentalists think so. After all, if you don’t “believe” correctly, God sends you to hell. Somehow that doesn’t sit right with me any more. If God created us, He has an obligation to us. To create people with no chance or reason to believe “the Truth™” either by accident of geography or lack of a good witness or whatall and send them to hell because they don’t believe is cruel and evil.

        There. I said it. I believe God has to be more than just a tribal deity.

        1. “to create people with no chance or “reason” to believe the truth…and send them to hell.”

          First, God “draws” all men…second “men are without excuse” because God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, and this has been going on since the creation of the world. (Romans 1:20) Next time you walk outside take a look up at the sky….You’ll be amazed!

        3. There. I said it. I believe God has to be more than just a tribal deity.

          I have no confidence anymore that he is. From the Old Testament on, that is precisely what he was, reworked and repurposed every few ‘dispensations’, and his greatest propaganda hits put together into written form. There is no God in ancient Israel; there’s just yet another god amongst the tribal households.

          Jesus, however, is different. But fundamentalists do not in any way believe in him or worship them. Which is why they are Fundamentalists, and not Christians.

        5. All I want to say about this subject is that disagreeing with an opinion is not the same as attacking or insulting the person who states that opinion.
          Guilt-Ridden and Catholic Gate-Crasher are two examples of people with very conservative views on some issues that were quite different from those of many of the frequent commentors here. Yet they were welcomed and cherished and constructively engaged in dialogue. Why? Because they respected other people’s intelligence and good intentions, instead of reacting defensively.

          The problem with naming specific people as examples is that it means omitting many others who could also be named. But I hope the first two individuals who came to my mind just now will accept this comment as a sign of my hgh regard for them.

      2. “to create people with no chance or “reason” to believe the truth…and send them to hell.”

        First, God “draws” all men…second “men are without excuse” because God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, and this has been going on since the creation of the world. (Romans 1:20) Next time you walk outside take a look up at the sky….You’ll be amazed!

      3. No problem….The issues I had was with folks that would claim that they believed the bible, but wouldn’t support its clear teachings.

        3. You mean that how they interpreted the Bible was not how you interpreted the Bible, so they clearly didn’t believe the Bible. Greg, I have read your posts for years, and you need this place more than anyone, just to shake you up, clear that fundy brain out.

        4. Aside from gems such as Prov. 27.14 and 30.33 there aren’t that many ‘clear teachings’. Eternal security/infant baptism are two such issues that come to mind as issues that are not so clear and have caused division, strife, and dissension for centuries.

    4. In fundyland there is such enforced unanimity of thought that the normal disagreements between people on the outside feel strange and threatening. Disagreement is normal and it does not equal non-acceptance. Learn to disagree in a gracious way, Greg. God doesn’t need you to help him be God. It’s okay to let other people make their own journey in their own time. No one’s heart was ever won over by harshness.

      “as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience, bearing with one another, and forgiving each other” -in other words, play nice.

      1. I’ve discovered a few things since coming here. One, I don’t need to be an internet warrior. Two, I can ignore the people who are most obnoxious. While the feature isn’t on the blog, the ‘ignore’ option on the forums is a lovely thing.

      2. Thanks, once again…the “group-think” cannot be hidden at SFL….but this comment is especially funny & ironic!…..I’m told to learn to disagree in a gracious way……but you add to that, this zinger….”Greg, God doesn’t need you to help him be God” (btw, wouldn’t you consider this to be “personal”?) ……how gracious are you being to me, Shy1?….In my comments thus far, which haven’t been very supportive of SFL, I have yet to say anything as “objectionable” as this comment of yours….This is EXACTLY the “fundy” mindset that persists at SFL…..You can take the fundy out of the IFB….but the fundy still remains…Only now he’s at SFL……You’re just as fundy as you ever were, you just switched teams!

        1. Greg,
          I’m going to echo Lady Semp, rtgmath, Big Gary, et al. in declaring your statement about groupthink to be balderdash…

          Seriously though, you’d have a point if you said that the crowd here, in some ways, skews liberal politically and theologically. You’d also have a point if you said that unless you’ve got a lot of free time and are prepared to use it defending your position, you may want to think twice before commenting on certain issues. Still, those of us here who hold minority opinions, in some areas, do not generally receive personal insults for stating our views.

          We’d probably also agree that not every old idea is bad and not every new idea is good. Thing is, the rejection of anything that smacks of conservatism by some here is not really surprising given many of our backgrounds. To use a crude illustration, if you went to a restaurant three times a week for breakfast, and on every visit there was a dead rat in the bowl along with the cereal, after you came to your senses and stopped going there, you might not like cornflakes. That’s just a personal view. Getting to the point, it’s actually admirable that you believe certain things strongly enough that you are willing to defend those beliefs. Thing is, by the exchange that’s been taking place here, you may want to take your audience and venue into account and rethink the way you state some of your views. After all, even if you may be right on some particular issue, it might not hurt to remember that Jesus didn’t begin the conversation with the Samaritan women at the well by saying, “You brazen hussy, you’re gonna split Hell wide open!” Finally, outside of some core Christian doctrines, we might consider (to paraphrase Mark Twain) that some of the stuff we know just ain’t so.

          Sorry for the wordy response. In any case sincere best wishes.

          BP

        2. I’m siding with everyone else. I’m not that liberal theologically or politically, and I have never felt excluded from discussions on the blog. I have even self-identified as more conservative on several occasions, and no one has ever come after me for my opinions.

          It’s all in how you say it.

        3. Greg, are you ever willing to consider that you often come across as attacking and abrasive? If not, why not? Did you ever think that maybe if enough people tell you something that it may be so, even if you don’t agree with it? Did you ever consider the idea that you probably aren’t right on every opinion you hold and post? Or if you are, maybe you aren’t communicating that very well?

          I dare you to search through SFL to find every post you’ve ever made (not sure if it’s possible, but maybe you’ve bookmarked some pages) and look to see if EVEN ONE THING you’ve ever said could be construed as nasty, arrogant, condescending, rude, or unloving. Then look to see if you made more such comments. Yes, some people here have spoken in such ways to others and to you. I’m sure I’ve offended people in how I’ve come across. That doesn’t make it right. Don’t say that we’re the ones always attacking you. Sometimes when a person attacks another it’s because karma is a female dog with very sharp teeth and is tired of being poked with a stick. Remember, a brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city. My guess is you’ve offended a lot of people here.

          I have seldom if ever engaged you, greg, because I find you pompous and boorish — notice I did not say you were those things, but that’s my impression of you from your posts. When I see your name here I generally scroll right past. Plenty of people here have views I disagree with but the posters are articulate and kind; I’m willing to consider them.

          You do not know my politics or my theology. I am an “evil liberal” on some things, a compromising moderate on others, and a “righteous” conservative on others. You cannot pigeonhole me. If you think you have me figured out, you haven’t. If you choose to insult me, I will wear it as a badge of honor, much like the “innately ignorant” honey words that our friend Brian from New Hampshire once used.

          Lock-step group think is wrong. However, sometimes the majority opinion has merit and should be considered. You would do well to ponder that.

          Also, you have not been banned here on the blog. Yet other people have. You should thank Darrell for allowing you to post here, even when your posts are often mean-spirited. If this were truly a group-think situation, Darrell would have cut off your privileges here as well as on the forum.

          I’M INNATELY IGNORANT AND GOSH DARNED PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        4. Greg, are you ever willing to consider that you often come across as attacking and abrasive? If not, why not? Did you ever think that maybe if enough people tell you something that it may be so, even if you don’t agree with it? Did you ever consider the idea that you probably aren’t right on every opinion you hold and post? Or if you are, maybe you aren’t communicating that very well?

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (catches breath) BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

          Greg’s specialty has always been self declaring greg to be correct and insulting everyone regardless of truth. It’s a hallmark of greg commentary.

        5. “In my comments thus far, which haven’t been very supportive of SFL, I have yet to say anything as “objectionable””

          I’ve been reading the archives, Greg.

      3. I have held a minority view about a few topics, and had sharp disagreements with a number of posters about them, but at no time was I ever ridiculed or excluded. I have been treated with respect, and I try to do the same with others -except on the occasion when the odd troll or four has practically begged to be shot down. Then I might oblige.
        Greg, you are my brother in Christ, and I believe you really wish to follow Him. I pray that God will bless you and lead you in the path wants you to go.

        1. Ps I don’t think it is just fundamentalists who can try to tell God how to be a “good” God……

        2. Well, both Abraham said Moses told God how to be a good God. And God honored them. They reminded God of His promises, His position, and His Press — the reputation He would have if He did a certain thing.

        4. I’m telling ya, Paul (and I told you before but George ate several of my posts), you and George have a bromance going. He just can’t quit you.

    5. Yawn. greg has a habit of inventing artificial natural classes (google it, little man) and then creatively reinterpreting reality to fit therein. It is about as original and creative as toilet paper, but less useful.

  37. Thank you for your courage, Darrell. And a big thank you to this community. I was quieter in posting but read almost everything here to read 😉
    This website was huge as I came out of IFB–I was damaged in ways I didn’t even realize. I am STILL working on reprogramming myself and it’s still scary sometimes–both being sucked back in by the new face of IFB and also by completely walking the other direction and not knowing when I’ll stop. That said, THIS is how community ought to be. Much love and gratitude.
    It will be missed. Here’s to healing.

    1. IFB thought patterns lurk in places you might not expect. It took a while to put them in place, and it will take a while to get them out.

      Just take it a step at a time. The journey gets less scary as you go on.

  38. It was bound to happen guys.

    (1) Running a blog/forum takes a lot of time from an individual to manage.

    (2) The fundamentalism movement we know of is almost non existent in the near future. We see more a neo group rising instead. I can tell you right now that the new “MoGs” (or fundy popes, etc) of this new movement will be young guys in their 30s.

      1. Oh, c’mon, Steven Anderson has said some funny stuff. The importance of Jesus wearing pants and of pissing against a wall are just two of his greatest hits.

        I admit that Anderson is also kind of scary. But no more frightening than Lester Roloff or Peter Ruckman or many others of older generations.

        2. I heard *about* those his sermons on those fundamentals of the faith, but I’ve never heard them from the ass’s mouth, so to speak….

    3. In reply to 1) by Jon Stewart:

      It’s also impressive that Darrell maintained such good quality over those eight years. I’ve been reading daily for the last three or four years, and I’ve gone back and read many of the older posts, and the writing has stayed consistently good. If anything, the hovertexts got even better with time.

  39. Darrell,

    In your post you stated that fundamentalism has changed. I’d be interested in your view of the changes and whether they are for the better or not.

      1. Parts are dying. I think the Tina Anderson case was the start, and things have been snowballing since then. We may see the end of Fundamentalism very soon, next 5-10 years. But what remnants remain will be intensified and be just that much worse…until they seep even more so in the broader fundygelicalism.

        The heresies of fundamentalism are believed far and wide, and will take decades to undo the damage The Fundamentals, Darby, Scofield, et al, have inflicted upon Christianity and the world.

        Shall the Fundamentalists Win? God Forbid.

        http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5070/

        1. IFB is dying, but they are being replaced by equally wicked men. Mostly reformed and mostly Southern Baptist, sad to say. The mask is different, but the fruit is the same. And it is rotten.

      2. Then, in just the last two days, at least a few of my Facebook friends have posted this:

        http://joshteis.com/home/2015/12/01/the-new-independent-baptist/

        Honestly, I don’t see 1, 2, and 6 ever happening. I wish #1 would, because the author Teis’s statements are pretty close to spot-on, but the only way fundy preachers will get a hold of this is to read and hear people far from their tradition, especially law-and-gospel Lutherans.

        This is tied in with #6, and I don’t think that will happen any time soon. Maybe I’m not running in the same circles as Teis, but I haven’t heard of a younger fundy preacher in years who reads anything. Ruckman read an immense amount — didn’t help him.

        Expository preaching? That would require coherence, and that won’t come from an incoherent mind.

        A few years ago, I dropped in for campmeeting at my old church, a man who had graduated from the Bible institute there preached. His text was “Turn not to the right hand nor to the left”, and he did this whole spiel (I can’t call it a sermon, let alone a message) about how Christians are like zero-turn lawn mowers. It was one of the least coherent things I’ve ever heard. Never you mind that the whole point of a zero-turn lawn mower is its EASE of turning! I kept thinking, “THIS is what you bring to a campmeeting? THIS is what you think is your best sermon to trot out?”

        Harry Nix is about the only preacher in my old crowd I’ll listen to. He can preach like a loud, rambunctious southerner all he wants, because I know he’s going to keep it short, preach the grace of Christ, and stick to his point. None of the others have that.

  40. Darrell, I too found STL at a time when I needed it. For that, I will always be grateful.

  41. I discovered SFL four years ago and it has helped me as I journeyed away from my parent’s Fundy beliefs. Thanks, Darrell, for such a healing site.

  42. Thank you Darrell for the hours, that turned into eight years, spent on SFL. I have found healing, wisdom and introspection within the community here and it has made me be a better person and bear, well at least attempt to bear, the image of Christ as a freed ex-fundy. I will miss the community here and words of my favorite commentators. I’ll be sure to keep abreast of the happenings on the SFL Facebook page. I wish you and your family the very best!
    Warmly,
    Elizabeth

      1. Aww, thank you Lady Semp!
        I haven’t tithed in years and what immense freedom and cheerful giving I have found as the Spirit leads. I learned through SFL discussions and a wonderful gospel community here in Portland, hungry people need food not a tract and a tithe to the local IFB for another white piano.
        I will miss the instructive discussions and community here.

  43. Darrell,
    I read with sadness that this would be the final post. I found SFL a couple of years ago and it has been like a close friend ever since. I wish I had friends in real life like my friends here. Would be awesome if we were to ever have an SFL reunion.
    Please write the book.

    As Michael W. Smith said,
    “Friends are friends forever if the Lord’s the Lord of them”
    so I expect to meet you all someday, but until then vaya con Dios to all my good friends here.

    the Admiral

  44. Things may not be immediately discernible in what a man writes, and in this sometimes he is fortunate; but eventually they are quite clear and by these and the degree of alchemy that he possesses he will endure or be forgotten.

    -Ernest Hemingway

    You’ve made an enduring difference in people’s lives by what you have written here.

    True Story Bro.

  45. First off let me say, not all churches that have Pastors that come from Hyles are bad churches, I go to a church where the Pastor graduated from Hyles, he is a Pastor that takes a stand and Preaches truth and cares about his people. Second you all make it sound like every person that goes to Hyles and still associates with them is horrible. Let me just say you are wrong, there are always a few bad apples in every denomination, we are all sinners, saved by the Grace of God.

    2. And almost all of these people said nothing while Jack Schaap promoted his heresies. Even after he faked masturbation with an arrow shaft in front of thousands of teens, these guys did nothing.

      1. It wasn’t masturbation–it was shaft polishing. He wasn’t spanking the monkey, he was stroking the stick. He wasn’t choking the chicken, he was jerking the joystick.

        Above all, it was hilarious. One of my favorite YouTube videos of all time.

        Of course Pastor Spanky singling out young Cox for special attention was riveting as well.

        Ah, good times. Oh how they will be missed. Damn you Darrell….I mean God bless in your future endeavors.

        the Admiral

    3. Maybe there are Hyles grads that have become good pastors.

      But then, they are not being what they were trained to be, not parroting what they were told to say, and are doing things differently than they were taught.

      If a HA grad is a good pastor, it is in spite of where they came from, not because of it.

      1. The purpose of Hyles-Anderson College is to teach grotesque heresies to future pastors and future pastors’ wives. If a few graduates somehow manage to avoid the worst of those heresies, it isn’t due to any lack of effort by
        HAC.

    4. IHcg, unless ‘pastor’ is a name or the first word of a sentence, it doesn’t need to be capitalized. You wouldn’t capitalize the job of ‘plumber’ or ‘grave digger’ in normal, middle-of-the-sentence usage. The job of ‘pastor’ is no different. To capitalize it without necessity is a subtle way of giving undue reverence to the position; in other words, perpetuating the “man of God” syndrome.

      If every time that I ate a meal prepared by a chef from Acme Culinary School and then got sick as a result, I wouldn’t suggest Acme Culinary School as an educational institution. Or to paraphrase King Jim’s minions, even a so-called Bible kawlidge is known by its creepy gradjooits.

      Rtg, well said.

    5. Ha ha. It ain’t a few bad apples, bro. It is a barrel of fucking vinegar. If there’s a good apple in there it is the exception that proves the rule.

      2. Methinks Proctystan has been imbibing a bit too much of the juice of them apples to drown his sorrows at the demise of the world’s greatest blog. And it weren’t no vinegar. It’s loosened the man’s tongue. WTF?

        the Admiral

    6. The fact that you think one of a Pastor’s duties is “taking a stand” indicates the poor education the Pastor got, and is passing along.

  46. Gracious……this Dawes song is addictive. I had never heard it before; now I can’t stop repeating it. Just another good additive to my life from Darrell : )
    btw, rtgmath, I’d like to think I’m one of those Hyles grads practicing Christianity and shepherding members in spite of the way I was trained.

    1. Good! And you said, “In spite” — also good.

      I am from Bob Jones University. I am who I am now in spite of it. While there were some good things about BJU, and some good people, too, there was much harmful stuff that defined it. At a point in my Christian life I had to deliberately leave some of that behind, deliberately reject it.

      But I know some pastors from BJU who have been very hurtful. Indeed, I’d have to say they were trained to be so, even if they don’t recognize it as such. So I am not just picking on HAC people.

  47. Thanks for all your posts. I would urge you to get a book together. You need a much wider audience.
    You might have a chat with Fred Clark of “Slacktavist” fame about collaborating?

  48. Darrell, I will really miss your blog posts. I just found SFL a few months ago so I didn’t see this coming. I would definitely be in favor of a book, and an SFL reunion too. Thank you for your work.
    Blessings,
    WM

  49. Since there’s a bit of a farewell party atmosphere here .. I’ll join in as a long time lurker. Thanks Darrell for all your work on this blog — and thank you to the regular commenters too.

    I’m from a different Evangelical tribe than IFB, but I recognised so many of the memes that have crossed over to my world (open Plymouth Brethren) from there. I’ve been moving on in my own faith (presently worshipping with some very liberal Anglicans) and so though not every post was so relevant to me, it’s been quite cathartic. I may not have spent time with IFB folks, but I recognised so much of outlook.

    Anyhow: grace and peace!

      1. Maybe some people are Disapproval-Addicts. They *need* to point their finger at something, so they can feel morally superior. I grew up in an environment that was full of them. I used to be as good as anyone in the art of Finger-Wagging. It can be a hard habit to break.

        1. It reminds me of the game of Christians versus atheists we used to play over at the old talk.origins Usenet group back in the day.

          You had scientists and science students on one side. They were discussing evidences of evolution ranging from paleontology to biology to astronomy. They would present evidence. They critiqued religious arguments by using evidence, and by discussing the implications of the religious arguments. Not all of them were atheists. Some were agnostic. Some were religious. But the “rule” was they had to present the evidence and be patient and polite.

          The Christians, on the other hand, were free to lie, to slander, to make stuff up and claim it as truth, to consign science and scientists to hell for believing “devilution,” and otherwise be utterly rude, crude and clueless.

          When I stumbled on the group this behavior astounded me. It utterly belied any conceivable notion of what Christianity was or what Christians were supposed to be and do, even from a fundamentalist notion! Yet there it was. And the more the “believers” ranted and mocked, the less believable it was that God could represent them (or that they could represent Him).

          The atheists were much better human beings than the Christians. What’s more, their respectful and clear presentation of the evidence convinced me. I became convinced of the evidence for evolution. None of them ever tried to convince me there was no God.

          So I look at these people in a similar light. Somehow, in their minds, they think God approves of lies and slander and deceit. They think God will forgive them anything because they “are saved.” They think God will lead them into all truth so they don’t even have to know their Bible! They certainly don’t obey Jesus.

          So there I was, and here I have been, and it is sad that I have to go seek another place. SFL has been good to me. I will do the forums. But Darrell had a way of focusing the conversation.

          I do think it is good that we had greg and others come at the last to mock and sneer. In a way it is a validation of Darrell ‘s work and our participation.

        2. As one crazy Fundy calls it “holy derision”. I guess if you put “holy” or ” righteous anger” in front of it you can be as mean as you want and its the Lord s work.

    2. “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.” — Col. 4.6 “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” — Eph. 4.29

      Truly, I don’t understand why people who don’t like SFL keep coming here and trolling. No church meetings or soulwinning going on? * The following is to be read in sarcasm font * Granted, the regulars here are all a bunch of reprobates who aren’t really saved after all, so maybe trolls do have a theoretical shot at saving someone. But not by a lack of charity.

      2. And they are rejoicing at the prospect. Sorry, Troll, I guess you will be disappointed that it isn’t going to happen

      3. Yeah, I’ve wondered why they keep showing up here too. Maybe you’re right when you sarcastically imply that perhaps they think they’re doing evangelistic work.

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