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Heading to Somewhere Else

1,239 Comments

“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”
“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the Cat.
“I don’t much care where–” said Alice.
“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the Cat.
“–so long as I get SOMEWHERE,” Alice added as an explanation.
“Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the Cat, “if you only walk long enough.”
(Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Chapter 6)

Eight years ago I started down a road out marked “Out of Here.” Today I’m sitting looking at another sign named “Somewhere Else.” I think it’s better here. Time will tell.

Those eight years since SFL started have brought us 2,075 posts, 12 million visits, and almost 150,000 comments. A lot has happened in that time and we’ve experienced it together.

Yet with all the words written and replied, fundamentalism is not dead — mostly because fundamentalism will never die as long as human beings are what they are. Pride, fear, and greed are the ingredients we all carry with us; fundamentalism just has its own family recipe for the way they mix and serve them.

When Stuff Fundies Like started began to gain popularity about six years ago I told myself that every anniversary I would take stock of my personal motivations and the reasons I kept writing. Today as I sit here I can honestly say that the reasons are all gone.

I haven’t darkened the door of a fundamentalist church (or many other churches) in years. For me, my fundamentalist past has become a fixed point in time, a place I can’t ever really go back to because my personal story has changed and the fundamentalism I knew has changed. The old names and faces have started to fade away even while the methods remain.

The Independent Baptist movement is a shell of its former self. The winds of change are blowing and although you’ll always find IFB churches hiding in the hills and hollers of this land they’re quickly becoming a cultural oddity. Someday they’ll be spoken of in the same breath as the Shakers, Amish, and other breakaway sects who stood still while time marched on.

As for me, I’m continuing my journey to Somewhere Else which means moving on from here. The SFL archives will remain but (unless something unforeseen occurs) this will be my last post here.

The Facebook page and Twitter account will stay live so that I can keep touch with you all if BIG NEWS breaks out in fundyland.

You can also reach me over at darrelldow.com or my writer’s page where I’ve been doing some writing on other topics.

The forum will stay active for as long as I can afford the hosting. If you want to register just drop me a line.

I’m also toying with the idea of compiling a Best Of SFL book with my original pieces in it. If you’d be interested in such a thing let me know.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t take the time to thank so very many people who have supported, contributed, encouraged, chided, goaded, and otherwise made this blogging experiment one of the best experiences of my life. SFL took me halfway around the world. It reconnected me with faces I’d all but forgotten. It has brought me so many new friends that time would fail to name them all.

I love you all. I wish you joy.

I’ll leave you with this song that I recently fell in love with that gives a wish that seem so very appropriate for those who’s roads are taking them from Back There past my resting spot on the way to Somewhere Else. “I hope life without a chaperon is what you thought it’d be…and that all your favorite bands stay together.”

1,239 thoughts on “Heading to Somewhere Else”

  1. Thanks for this website and for all who participated here, whether I agreed with you or not. I have heard it said that if two people are agreed on everything, one of them is not necessary. Most of us have ricocheted or boomeranged away from fundyism to different degrees, and I’m sure fundamentalism and fundamentalists can be blamed for causing some of it, as we try to be anything but what we once were. Most of the people I knew in fundamentalism weren’t the most extreme cases, and have turned from their so called standards. Anyway, thanks for the group therapy. I am a big fan of The Bob Newhart Show, and I’m sure I resemble one of Dr. Hartley’s patients. Thanks to Darrell. Hope things go well for you on your journey.

  2. Well, I guess since this is the last post by you, Darrell, I should get this out there. I’ve wanted to do it for a while now, and I suppose now is as good a time as ever:

    Not only am I a former fundy…I’m a former fundy that has been “featured” here.

    Back in I believe 2011, you did something along the lines of, “Preacher boy week.” I was the bonus that week. I would probably have never known it had another IFB screecher that had been featured here had not sent me the link to your post.

    I honestly found *most* of the comments to be hilarious…heck, I even joked about it with friends I thought I had… I guess my stumbling into Fundystan didn’t totally kill my humor.

    Anyway, at that point, I was already in the middle of a bit of crisis of faith concerning my place in fundamentalism. After a couple of less than compassionate YouTube comments and deep regrets about even posting it because I realized how stupid I was to have even said such things, I took every video I had on that account down, and let it go inactive.

    I don’t blame anyone here, it was just part of my departure from Fundystan.

    I’d honestly mostly forgotten about this blog. To me, this was just some place that I gave a little fun to(and regrettably poured salt into some of your wounds) by having up some videos on YouTube that I regretted uploading even before you guys found it.

    Anyway, through a process that I won’t detail here, I eventually departed Fundystan…

    A little over a year ago, I was fully departed and excommunicated from the IFBs. I found my way back to this blog and here, although I’ve not really been an active part of the community, I’ve seen and felt compassion and understanding. This has been a place of healing and not only healing but teaching. So, I’m thankful that you started this blog, because without it, my departure from the IFBs and the subsequent healing process would have taken a lot longer and have perhaps been a lot more painful. I still have a long way to go, but this blog has helped me get through the most painful parts.

    That said, if you’re reading this and you’ve figured out who I am through searching the archives…and you remember the videos I posted that were shared here, and they in any way hurt you, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I’m not sure any amount of apology would be enough, as apologies do not heal wounds, but please just know that this blog helped me to see the error of my ways and that, “I’ve left the ‘old paths’ I traveled so long…”

    Peace, love and happiness be with you all.

    -JA/Recovering Fundy

    1. Apologies may not heal wounds, but sincerity does a lot to soothe hurts. Your testimony here is wonderful. You show the work in your heart is real. Thank you!

    2. Dear JA,
      Your post made my day. I well remember that post. I remember that back in the 70s, I was a BJU preacher boy and I sure wouldn’t want what I “preached” in classes there posted on youtube. I have been fortunate in having grown up before there was such a thing as the Internet. So none of my *admittedly* crap was immortalized.

      Now for unsolicited advice. My dad always said Don’t offer people unsolicited advice. But he’s gone now, so here goes. In love.

      When I left fundydom I was stuck with a degree from BJU. Unaccredited. I thought I wanted to be a teacher or pastor so I went to (and graduated from) Dallas Seminary.

      Long story short, about 30 years later, and never in full time ministry. So I went into secular work. I started into police work at 29 years old. I’m retired now at 58. My advice to you is this: develop a marketable trade that has zero to do with religion. That way, wherever your theology takes you, it won’t be tied to your livelihood.

      PS Don’t think I’m recommending going into police work. If I had a son or daughter I wouldn’t want them following that trade. But I’d want them to have skills that folks will always need. Whatever that might be for you. I wish you the very best, my young brother.

  3. “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, so that ye know how ye ought to answer every man” – Col. 4:6

    *seasoned* with salt
    *not* a whole mouthful of salt

  4. For some reason, I come here every day still hoping that Darrell changed his mind and decided to post again 🙁 Thanks again for everything!

  5. Thank you for this site. It has given me much merriment, and helped finish my fundy longings. Godspeed on your journey.

  7. The world is a better place because you provided a forum for those who “escaped” from this awful cult. We owe you a huge debt of gratitude. Thousands of us identify with the falsehoods perpetuated by this group and others like it.

  8. I’ve been following SFL pretty much since day one. I always thought the blog would last a year, maybe two, only because I thought Darrell would run out of material. Well that didn’t happen. Plus all the scandals sure helped.

    But I was the one who discovered the white piano.

  9. Geez, I don’t check in for a few days, and look what happens!
    Seriously, when I found this site, I had been out of fundystan for over a decade and was transitioning out of the SBC. I came here at a time when I was beginning to realize that I still had lingering baggage from my fundy days. It was nice to know I wasn’t alone. These days, I guess I would call myself a progressive Christian.
    Darrel, if you ever start wondering if you’ve made a difference, come back and read these comments!
    Dr. Fundystan, Pastor’s Wife, Big Gary, Christian Socialist, Lady Semp, and others, I have loved reading your thoughtful and witty comments.

    Melissa, TTHS, class of ’91, TTU class of ’96

  10. Before the music stops playing and Darrel has the cleaning crew pack up the furniture, it’s worth mentioning that SFL wouldn’t have been all that it was if it weren’t for the wonderfully eclectic personalities that chose to visit here.

    Anyway, here’s a shout out to just a few of the very many folks who I was genuinely honored and privileged to get to meet on this site: Pastor’s Wife and BJg– On one occasion PW, as was your way, you were kindly and graciously, but with firmness and logic, explaining what was wrong with a statement made by BJ2. Bald Jones grad responded with something pretty close to, “Junior said a lot of stupid shit, didn’t he?” What can you say to that? Deacon’s Son– You’re probably a good lawyer, but you’re definitely a brilliant writer. You may think this violates the fifth commandment, and you’re smart enough to come up with a better title for the first of your books, but “Mommy Fundamentalistest” is available if you want it. Big Gary– You’re an absolutely first-rate writer and any time you gave a figurative thumbs up to something I’d posted, it felt like a tremendous, if not entirely deserved, compliment. The most certainly not innately ignorant Lady Semp– I wish I had gotten to know you when we were both at “Camp Hyles.” Paul- I enjoyed your comments and I’m actually going to miss your wretched puns. 🙂

    Of course time would fail to tell of Catholic Gate Crasher, Don, rtgmath, Clara English (thanks for recommending the Episcopal Church, by the way), Liutgard, Mag, Scorpio, Natalie ( although I’m beginning to suspect my butt cushions aren’t in the mail), Uncle Wilver, Christian Socialist, and Leanne who… Okay, sorry about that.

    Finally Nico– You’re one of the smartest and funniest human beings I’ve ever virtually met. If you happen to read this, have a Blessed Advent and a Merry Christmas. On a different note, I hope you found a way to de-louse your dog. And to [almost] everyone else here, thanks for allowing me to hang out with you.

    With Sincere Affection and Respect,
    BP

    3. It’s been quite a cruise, I’ve enjoyed rowing and sailing with ye. Fair winds, full sails my friend.

    4. Thank you for the mention, Ben.

      Could I (re-)tell my favorite BJ2 story?

      My brother worked for the Bob. He and BJ Jr became rather close. One day, in the late 70s, he and BJ Jr had to take a leak. They were standing side by side at adjacent urinals.

      Bob Jr. looked over at my brother (while holding his thing) and remarked wryly:

      “It’s not good for much any more. But I still need to run some water through it now and again.”

      RIP, Bob Jones Jr.
      You were a helluva funny man

    5. Ben, I’m sure we saw each other in the DFAC. I was enslaved, I mean, I worked there serving the lines and running the DW.

  11. I’ve said it before, I’m weary.

    I’m weary of men lifting up themselves and those like them. I’m weary of titles, abuse of power (which those under it willingly submit), and the making of little man-made kingdoms. I’m weary of the continual misuse of Scripture, particularly the life and words of Jesus (if He is mentioned at all), and the yoke of the Old Testament squarely placed on the necks of New Testament believers.

    I’m weary of not being able to clearly define the way I feel, what I’ve been through, and how to get my head out of it. I feel like a prisoner of unprincipled religion and religious people.

    I’ve read thousands of your comments. I’ve exclaimed out loud more times than I can remember, “yes! that’s it!.” yet I cannot bring to memory a single thought. This morning I’m taking my family to what is probably an IFB church because I don’t have the guts to just stay home and lead my own family in some better way.

    I’ll go, and yet inwardly continue to wither and die. I’ll see the liturgy for what it is while my conscience continues to seer and burn.

    I’ve not lost my faith in the only object I can trust. Perhaps I’m just waiting for a breakthrough of some kind. Hell, I don’t know what I’m waiting for.

    Now, if I could just move on like so many here have.

    Farewell, friends, and enjoy the peace that surely comes to those who know and trust Jesus alone.

    B.R.1

    1. I have pretty much lost my faith, for the Jesus I was introduced to was inextricably associated with a depraved religious system. But I am not without hope. I will hope for you and yours as well.

    2. Hi B.R.1, I can relate to much of what you just said. Right now it seems like there is not much that makes sense to me when it comes to theology and the teachings of the church. But I’ve been meditating a lot on the incarnation, the Jesus who understands our tears and our suffering, and his eternally nail-scarred hands. That gives me hope and also challenges me to show more grace and patience towards others (and myself). I hope my words don’t come across as preachy (please forgive me if they do); just sharing how I have been encouraged recently.

      1. The struggle to make sense out of the nonsense is basically useless. There is some good stuff out there, but you have to wade through a lot of junk to find it.

        So I don’t know what I believe, either. But I want better than the stuff I was fed under IFBism. The incarnation is a good place to start.

        1. Thank you, rtg. While you have a different perspective than me on a number of things, I’ve really enjoyed reading your insights over the past few months. You’ve encouraged me and challenged my assumptions at the same time.

          Going back to the basics, such as the incarnation, has really been helpful.

    3. B.R.1,
      Without a doubt, some here are enjoying the peace that comes from trusting Jesus alone. For others of us, our method of coping is to stay as far away from IFB churches as we can while hoping they were at least right about eternal security. Admittedly that’s not much of a strategy

      Still, spite of Fundamentalism, I haven’t completely abandoned the faith. While being utterly unqualified to either preach to you or offer advice, it might help to remember that Christ promised to be with us always, even unto the end of the age. I believe He can help you and I’ll join Leo in hoping for you and yours. I hope you’ll do the same for me.

      BP

      1. Of course, I don’t want to make Fundamentalism and Fundamentalists the scapegoat for everythinng that’s wrong with my life and faith either.

        1. Let’s say Fundamentalism didn’t cause all your problems, but it didn’t help solve them, either. Is that fair?

        2. Big Gary,
          In my opinion, modern Fundamentalism was ruinous for me. But I listened to them and I stayed, so who can I point the finger at?

    4. Yesterday my family and I loaded up and headed for what I thought was another cookie-cutter church experience. Our last attempt at visiting this little church at the foothills-of-the-Rocky Mountains-most-likely-an-Independent-fundy-baptisy church failed when we found that they were all huddled in the basement over lighted candles and an apparent thanksgiving feast.

      Well, yesterday we were closing in on said assembly when, lo, a white pickup truck ahead slowly veered to the left from the number one west bound lane, plowed over a crowned and raised brick median into the east bound lanes narrowly missing traffic, then over the raised curb through a river rock bed and into a “Do Not Enter” sign, over a large wooden bring and into a rather large hedgrow. All airbags deployed and the rear axle was torn from the truck. The guy was ok and completely sober.

      One of my kids said, “Dad, maybe we shouldn’t try to go to that church anymore.”

      I agree.
      🙂

      B.R.!

      1. “God moves in a mysterious way…”

        “One of my kids said, “Dad, maybe we shouldn’t try to go to that church anymore.”” Psalm 8:2 🙂

  12. Now seems like a good time to reprint my SFL Bingo list. Here’s how to play:

    Make a 5×5 grid. On the top of each column write one of these letters: S, F, L, B, S.

    Pick 5 random items from each of the sets below and write their numbers in the squares.

    Print the list of explanations in small type and clip it to the Bingo card.

    Keep your SFLBS Bingo card handy as you read online, work at an IFB-dominated business, or attend an IFB church. If you’re at church, be sure not to actually yell “Bingo!” out loud!

    SFLBS

    Seriously Awful Behavior

    1. The Shepherd Protects/Abets/Is the Predator
    2. Break Your Child, God Said So
    3. Give Me Your Money & God Will Make It Rain Cheeseburgers
    4. Assorted Purity Culture Creepiness
    5. Family Values = Only Certain Families Have Value
    6. You Don’t Need a Doctor, Just Get More Religion
    7. Assorted Dominionist Bumf
    8. Refusing Help for One’s Child = Holy
    9. Trash the World, It’s Gonna Burn Anyway
    10. Yay Me, I Adopted a Little Brown Heathen

    11. Assorted Patriarchal Poison
    12. Terrifying Children With Apocalyptic Nonsense
    13. It’s Only Moral If We Do It
    14. Serving Poor People Pie (In the Sky When They Die)
    15. Leader Flat-Out Lies About “The World”

    Funny If You’re Not the Target

    16. Rantin’ Ravin’ Spittin’ Preacher
    17. Newlywed/Neverwed Preaches Perfect Marriage
    18. If It’s Popular, It Must Be Evil
    19. 4 Years on the Hamster Wheel for a Worthless Degree
    20. Homophobic Hollering Through a Closet Door
    21. Conspiracy Theories
    22. Freakouts About “The Appearance of Evil”
    23. How Eye Babies Are Made
    24. Occult Cooties
    25. I Don’t Have a Clue What It Is, But I’m Agin’ It
    26. Old Enough to Go to War, Still Gets Demerits
    27. Pastor’s Pet Peeve = Expository Preaching
    28. Pastor’s Pet Obsession = Standards
    29. Bible-Believing Christian Hasn’t Read Most of It
    30. Altar Call, Again and Again

    Like Retcons, Don’t They?

    31. It’s Only Worldly for 30 Years
    32. Ignore My Printed Sermons, I Never Preached That
    33. I Never Knew That Guy (Now That He’s Fallen)
    34. Ladyhood Was Universal Before Those Nasty Feminists
    35. The Trail of Blood
    36. Slavery = Evangelism
    37. This Was Always a Christian Nation
    38. The Founding Fathers Were Just Like Me
    39. Eternal Bedrock Beliefs (That Change Every Generation)
    40. Everybody Was Happy Antebellum
    41. The Cold War Never Ended
    42. Calvin Hated Everybody
    43. He’s a Great Man (Ignore His Work History)
    44. Grape Juice. It Was Grape Juice.
    45. Look, There’s the Antichrist! No, Over There! No, There!

    Boy, This is Clueless

    46. Hep to the Young People of Today
    47. We Don’t Do Liturgy (Just the Same Thing Every Week)
    48. I Can Micromanage My Adult Children Over Miles and Years
    49. Science Is a Competing Religion
    50. Atheists Hate God
    51. Unfortunate Acronyms
    52. The War on Christmas
    53. It’s Good ‘Cause There’s a Fish on It
    54. Mad Godly Homemaking Skilz (Sophomore Dorm Level)
    55. Marvel at This Modesty. Marvel, I Say!
    56. Keep ‘Em Ignorant and They Won’t Have Sex
    57. Huh-BAAAAWWW We’re So Oppressed (Said the Hegemon)
    58. Prince Charming Is Coming Aaaaany Day Now
    59. Person of Worldwide Importance (In Our Tiny World)
    60. Church Planting in Cities Named After Saints

    Seriously?!

    61. Bus Ministry for the Win
    62. My Neighbor Saved My Stupid Butt Because God Likes Me Best
    63. The Magic Sinner’s Prayer Spiel
    64. Want to Be a Missionary? Shuck & Jive for $25
    65. Vacation = Mission Trip
    66. Playing Hopscotch with Verses = Plain & Literal Reading

    67. Hanging the Whole Gospel on Creation Science
    68. Courtship. Just . . . Courtship. And Everything It Involves.
    69. Bible in My Textbook/Bible Is My Textbook
    70. Don’t Need No Book Larnin’ in This Here Book-Based Religion
    71. Passive Aggressive Personalized Sermon
    72. We Love Israel (We Need It for Firestarter)
    73. The Holy Trinity: Father, Son and KJV
    74. Freedom in Christ (To Shun the Unworthy)
    75. Not Agreeing with My Entire Platform = Hating Christianity

    2. That is great!! So very true. I can relate to so much.

      “17. Newlywed/Neverwed Preaches Perfect Marriage”

      I would add:

      The 23 year old youth pastor tells parents how to raise their teenagers…cause Bible college degree.

    4. Hilarious! and many of them so true of that world.
      Number 68! I chuckle. So glad the hubby and I got to know each other in a way that looked more like friendship at first and later more like dating, even though we called it “courtship” at the time just to be ecclesiastically correct. So glad I dodged so many bullets too. I could have easily ended up with a domineering/ “patriarchal” man or worse, but I guess I scared them off because I had secular career goals, a very un-fundy thing for a very fundy girl to do.

    5. Not only do you have a bingo game here, but you’ve got at least a couple of songs along with a quiz show.

      For example, how about, “Spiritual Jeopardy”
      Under Column S, Row 1
      Contestant: “I’ll take “Preachers named Joe for 75 years, Alec.”
      Under S#1, “Neal at the Altar”
      Contestant: Who is… “Buzz”
      Alec: “Whoops, out of time!”

      Or, to the tune of “Purple People Eater”
      [He was a big, fat red faced] Rantin’ Ravin’ Spitin’ Preacher
      Under #20 “Good Golly, I Like to Dress Like Molly”

      Then again, maybe these suggestions are not particularly funny.

  13. Awesome ride, Darrell. Haven’t posted a comment until now about the site closing because of so many mixed emotions. I don’t think I can fully express in writing my appreciation for how you’ve helped us survivors. You’ve been a life saver for more people than you know. You helped me out of a crazy neo-fundie cult, and I can’t thank you enough. It was not quite IFB, but had IFB origins and mostly IFB ideology and therefore pretty well everything here applied. You have no idea how psychologically traumatic and controlling it was. From the bottom of my heart, or the heart of my bottom, as Scorpio once said, thank you. I never commented on here much, by I read every article you wrote, and usually all the comments, too. All you guys will be missed. I’d love to meet you all someday. Hakuna matada, my friends.

      1. Brother Scorpio,
        You said a lot of shit. All of it was true. Most of it was damn funny.
        BJg

  14. So this is how it ends? No final hair-raising story from Deacon’s Son? No reappearance of Shoes for one last amazing display of numerical prestidigitation? There’s no Grand Finale? Darrell’s final post opened with an open road leading to only God knows where and it’s ending with the melancholy echoes of the stragglers’ footsteps as they leave the now nearly empty hall. Like the Cheshire Cat, SFL seems to be fading away until nothing is left but the smile. And soon that will be gone too. Well, maybe not the smile.

      1. You can’t do that to poor Otto! I just introduced him to my students (visits from Mr. Otto Korrect are why I have typos on e-mails and study guides).

        1. Otto/Auto. Not sure of the correct spelling of Scorpio’s friend (as seen in his avatar), but you have to be familiar with the movie “Airplane” to get the reference.

  15. Thanks for all you have done to bring light to the darkness. Thanks for all the laughs. Thanks for helping me heal and for reminding me of the craziness that used to be my life but is now a memory of what God allowed in my life for some reason.

    All good things must come to and end.

    Luke,

    HAC 2002

    Go to hell Jack H and Jack S

  16. Thank you. This website has been such a life line for me. I grew up homeschooled. My parents didn’t drink as much of the coolaid as they could have, but I’m 30 and still trying to deprogram myself. I don’t know what more to say, but thanks for being a breath of fresh air. A place that says I’m not just crazy or bitter.

  17. No doubt more comments will trickle in before this post goes dormant and is eventually archived. Still, it seemed like the right time to put this up.

        1. Sir,
          If you will review my claim of November 29th, you will clearly see that I stated my desire to be the first to claim last. It pains me to admit, however that my claim could potentially be understood to cover only the first “Last.” Therefore conceivably you could have claimed middle “Last” or last “Last.” Since you did not specify, however, and since Lady Semp followed your claim with her own, it appears that your claim only covers second-to-last “Last.” It appears Lady Semp has had the last laugh and the last “Last.” I doubt she will agree to arm wrestle you and if you still wish to press your claim for the last “Last” you will need to contact a lawyer such as Deacon’s Son. Of course that would be most unchivalrous of you since when it comes to last “Lasts” it’s Ladies first.
          Cordially,
          BP

        2. I’m a lady, therefore the ‘last’ should be mine.

          Oh, and Dr F, ladies don’t wrestle. Arms or otherwise. You simply have to capitulate.

        8. I don’t wrestle, Dr F. I’m a lady. You as a gentleman should know better. I’m quite disappointed in you, sir.

        10. For a doctor you have a remarkable lack of understanding of the concept of ‘no’.

  21. I have never posted here before, but I have read the posts (and comments) for several years. I left the IFB 3 years ago after some awful experiences in two churches. 27 years in the IFB, and yet somehow I have grown more in the 3 years out of it than I ever did in it. I feel I have finally forgiven, moved past my intense bitterness, healed my family, fixed my parenting and marriage, and gotten my faith back–ALL by God’s grace and help. I now see how much I need Him, and how much he truly loves me. His faithfulness is amazing. Thanks for the blog–I haven’t agreed with everything, for sure, but there have been some really good posts that helped me see truth!

  22. Now I actually have to go to an IFB church service if I want to hear about and mock the craziness that goes on.

  23. Sir, in my heart there was a kind of fighting
    That would not let me sleep. Methought I lay
    Worse than the mutines in the bilboes. Rashly—
    [Worse than mutineers bound together in chains. Rashly-]
    And prais’d be rashness for it—let us know
    Our indiscretion sometimes serves us well…

    Hamlet, Act 5, Scene 2, 4–8

    Indeed. Our indiscretion sometimes serves us well. Thanks, Darrell.

  24. Darrell,
    I visit this site occasionally and enjoy many of the comments as well as your posts. I am a fundamental Baptist. Notice I did not capitalize the F. I am also a Pastor. However I do read translations other than the KJV, I occasionally go to movies, I understand there may be other sorts of music Christians like and I do not molest children. So I guess I am not a good Fundamentalist.

    Writing about your journey reminds me of a poem “A Road Less Travelled” by Robert Frost. Many Fundies only follow the well worn path through life because “Pastor said so”. My adventuresome soul prefers the path overgrown with weeds and seldom trod. It has led me away from the crowd, and has often m are me pause to think, contemplate and pray. But it has been a good path, and I encourage all to give it a try.

    Enjoy your journey.

  26. Bye you guys. I think I missed the last week or two of posts but I’ve been lurking on here for at least two years by now. Thanks, Darrell, for running the place.
    I guess I’d have to say that I still believe the same that I did when I was a kid. I just take everything with a grain of salt, and worship freely instead of in fear like the fundies.

  28. I’ve waited a while to comment because I really didn’t want to admit SFL had ended (even though I don’t visit as often as I used to). But it would be a shame if I didn’t express my deep love and gratitude for the SFL community.

    SFL was instrumental in my escape from FundyLand. Thank you, Darrell. Through your posts and the lively discussions surrounding them, truth was clarified for me. I am deeply indebted to all of you for putting into words things I could only feel, for accelerating the process of getting my head screwed on straight (straighter, anyway), and for shining light in the darkness.

    For all of you, wherever you are in your journey, I pray:

    May the Christ who walks on wounded feet
    walk with you on the road.
    May the Christ who serves with wounded hands
    stretch out your hands to serve.
    May the Christ who loves with a wounded heart
    open your hearts to love.
    May you see the face of Christ in everyone you meet,
    and may everyone you meet see the face of Christ in you.

    (And the Episcopal Church welcomes you. :))

  29. I watch the little embers continue to burn in the fireplace, unwilling to admit that the fire is really going out. And I sympathize. Both the tender (Darrell) and the embers (us, our conversations) have different needs.

    And in an attempt to inject a bit more life into the fire, to delay its passing just a little longer, I will tell what I will do after this week.

    My family and I are going back to North Carolina for the Christmas season. My daughter desperately wants to go see her fundy friends.

    There will be time with the grandparents and other family. But she and my wife have been homesick for the IFB church people they left behind.

    I shall go with them. I won’t complain or put down anyone or anything to my wife or daughter. I used to have some friends there. But one learns that “friends” in an IFB context are like most others. The quotation marks matter. “Friends” is in context. You are not often loved for yourself, but how you fit into the group, measure up to the standard.

    I will continue to be grateful for the opportunity I’ve had to learn my experiences in Fundystan are not unique. There will be no desire to go bank into bondage.

    What I hope is that the few experiences my wife and daughter have been gaining outside of the old world will help them as they look at the past and see the future ahead.

    SFL has given me some good friends and much to think about. I wish all of you joyful holidays and the strength to be yourselves in the truest sense.

    2. I too will be visiting fundy family; it shouldn’t be too bad though. There’s no large church/school or anything putting pressure on me. The hardest thing will be being pitied, the assumptions that because I left the IFB, I am now in the situation in which I find myself. (Yes, I’m being deliberately vague.)

      You are so accurate to say, “You are not often loved for yourself, but how you fit into the group, measure up to the standard.” I feel bad that for so long my entire social life was my church because when that is gone, I found myself alone and, worse, unsure of how to even begin making relationships that aren’t focused on church. It was so EASY to be “friends” when you automatically saw them two or three times a week, plus extra “fellowship times.” I can converse, but I struggle with how to go beyond that into making plans with people. So it’s really lonely.

      1. PW, you have been such a blessing. I hope you will find that place where you realize you are truly wanted, admired, needed, and happy. I, too, know loneliness. May you be blessed as much as you have graced us.

  30. Oh, wow! I haven’t been here in quite a while. When the JS scandal broke 2 1/2 years ago, I found SFL. I felt guilty for reading, at first, and realizing I agreed with so much. Reading the comments alone has been such an education for me. I wish I could remember the person who said, in essence, in regards to KJV-only-ism, that God can preserve His word, no matter what man decides to do. Eye-opening for a person who has heard KJV only stuff all her life.
    Thankfully, we were able to exit fundy land not long ago. We are in ministry but in a much more relaxed environment and so happy.
    Thanks Darrell for all you’ve done and taught us.

  32. Wow. The final post.

    Darrell, you and this site helped me so much when I was leaving fundamentalism. Made me realize I wasn’t the only one who thought there were problems. I couldn’t seem to articulate them most of the time, but you could!

    I’ve never commented much, but I’ve read many of the discussions that have come about in the comments, and many of you have helped me look at things in a new light. Many spiritual discussions happened that caused me to think more on spiritual things than I ever had before. Thank you.

    Add me on FB if you’d like, all.

    Priscilla Smith

  33. (…sneaks in one last Last to see if anyone is paying attention…utters an evil and just slightly too loud cackle…slinks back into the ninja shadows…)

    1. I feel like I’m at a concert where most of the crowd has left the auditorium, but a few diehard fans (that was an awesome movie, BTW ) are still screaming hoarsely, “encore, encore!”

      Darrell, if you did bring back SFL, it would be like when Coca-Cola discontinued Coke and replaced it with New Coke and then brought it back as Coke Classic.

      Imagine that, SFL Classic!

      Is anyone else feeling the pain of withdrawal symptoms?

      the Admiral

        1. I always have had trouble simply accepting the inevitable. I usually have to fight it somehow.

          But then, sometimes I have won (to my great surprise!) and actually accomplished something significant. And then, too, sometimes I refuse to just “let go” until I find a suitable alternative.

          Call me Israel. Or Elisha.

  36. Wow…I always end up being late to the party. Just found this blog and its been a fun read. It made me feel a lot less alone and I wish I’d discovered it sooner and been able to contribute.

    All the best in your future pursuits

    1. Dear Andrew:

      You’ll find plenty of material if you work back through the archives. Along with many outstanding posts by Darrell, there are some very solid replies. None of them are mine, mind. But they’re there. If you need a sounding board, well…some of us have posted email addys.

      williamsimmonson at gmail dot com

      Christian Socialist

      1. CS, you have made many important, relevant, and insightful comments. Do not allow false modesty to belittle your contributions, please. I consider you to be one of those whose words fit well the situation. Not to mention that you have been a particular encouragement to me when I needed it.

        1. Dear Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:

          This much is clear — for some of us, SFL IS needed…

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

  46. Damn you rtgmath, you got first…..yet, you did fail to call it. I call first………………………..
    comment of 2016.

    Happy new year to all, and may SFL be as awesome in 2016 as it has always been.

    the Admiral

  47. Dear SFL Reader:

    Perhaps we should prepare a plan and designate someone to sneak off to a phundyland ‘church’ every week or so and bring back a report on the antics. Of course the problem is not only having to endure the idiocy; what really hurts is missing ministry that truly matters. Sigh ………….

    Christian Socialist

    1. New Year’s Eve sees a party at the house of a friend, and the IFB church faithful tend to gather there for games, food, and uhhh, preaching. So, what did the preacher preach on?

      Jesus’ birth? Nope. Anything advent or epiphany related? Nope.

      He preached from Ezekiel. How God promised blessing for obedience, and promised to bring the hammer down on disobedience. Some fun! He tried to equate the tornadoes that hit on Christmas week with God punishing disobedience.

      So of course, if something bad happens to you, God is punishing you, right? And if something good happens to you, God is blessing you. Obviously! What could possibly be wrong with that message for the New Year?

      Then to top it off, he passed around a basket of verse cards. Pick a card at random, and God might well be using that verse in your life this year! A couple of years ago I got one that said, “Whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth.” This year I got, He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.”

      So, what happened with your introduction to the New Year?

      1. Good grief rtgmath,
        This preacher sounds like his bible was missing a fair amount of scripture including the entire book of Job. You probably didn’t rebuke him for not, “rightly dividing the word of truth,” did you? Anyway, we’ve heard preaching to the effect that God was going to drop the hammer on us if we didn’t [storehouse] tithe. Did you ever hear a preacher basically say that if you weren’t tithing and God wasn’t punishing you, it was likely that you were unsaved? Ah, the memories!

        As far as my introduction to the new year goes, I was already asleep.

      2. Ha rtgmath, but you did move several states north this past year. So then, you must be one of the unrighteous?

        the Admiral

      3. I’ve never understood that kind of preaching. I mean, the P documents in Ha Tanach teach divine retributive justice, but the entire corpus of wisdom tradition, most of the E documents, and not a small portion of the J documents all teach that this is hogwash, and anyone who expects blessing and cursing to be tied to behavior is bound to be disappointed.

      4. Apparently the said preacher never read the book of Job, or Psalms.

        “Why do the wicked prosper?” is an age-old question. In fact, we see this question being asked much more frequently in the Bible compared to its converse, “Why do the righteous suffer?” Neither one is completely answered, despite the desire of the IFB (and other churches) to offer simple answers to life’s most complicated questions. I think it’s human nature to want simple answers and simple explanations, but life doesn’t work that way.

        1. I would venture to say all of us know people personally who reap the just rewards of their own stupid/wise decisions in life.

          We also know people who seem to suffer more than their share of bad/good luck.

          I think most people I know are either benefitting from years of hard work or are slacking and have nothing to show for their lack of effort. But, it seems that this has more to do with natural cause and effect and less to do with a direct blessing of God. Maybe God can/does take credit for setting up the cause/effect system?

          the Admiral

        2. Please don’t get me wrong. Obviously many people are in bad circumstances through little or no fault of their own. I was making a generalization about my own observation from the perspective of someone living in the United States where it is relatively easy to live a reasonably comfortable life if you try hard enough.

          The above is in stark contrast to the majority of the people in the world living in places like China, India or on the continent of Africa where a comfortable life is hard to come by for most people.

          the Admiral

        3. Dear WorkinMama:

          You wrote: … it’s human nature to want simple answers and simple explanations…

          I reply: DING! DING! DING! Ladies and gentlemen — we have a winner!

          Christian Socialist

          PS: I was once asked why God would bless Naaman, an accursed [hock – tooo] SYRIAN.

          Reply?

          ‘I dunno. Could that be grace?’ 🙂

        4. Thanks for your replies. I definitely agree with Admiral’s points about the cause-and-effect of our decisions, and also about the deep poverty that many people around the world find themselves trapped in. I also agree with CS’s point about grace in the story of Naaman.

          When asking “Why do the wicked prosper?” and “Why do the righteous suffer?” what I was referring to was cases of severe, obvious injustice. What about the pedophile who has dozens of victims over his lifetime, lives a long life with good physical health, and never spends a day in jail? They say the 98% of sex offenders never spend a day in jail (https://rainn.org/). That’s not grace, it’s a gross lack of justice. What about the baby who is abandoned by his parents? What about the child who is repeatedly raped by his or her own family members starting as toddler? What about the young woman who marries a “godly” young man and then ends of being a victim of domestic violence for decades (and is counseled by her church that she just needs to “be more submissive and pray harder”)? What about the innocent victims of war crimes?

          A lot of fundamentalists seem to think that everything that happens is “just part of God’s plan”. No one can convince me that child abuse is God’s will!! According to Jesus, people who hurt little children deserve to have millstones tied around their necks and be thrown into the sea (Matthew 18).

          I’ve sat under preaching that says (I’m paraphrasing) “Because we are all sinners and deserve to go to hell, therefore, whatever bad things happen to us during our lifetime, we can’t complain or get angry, because we deserve it. We should just be thankful that we are not going to hell. If you don’t think you deserve whatever bad thing happened to you, then you’re just prideful.” This line of reasoning is used in “counseling” to guilt abuse survivors into “forgiving” the perpetrators instead of holding them accountable for their actions and seeking legal justice. I’m not sure where this teaching originated but it seems to be popular among followers of BJU/The Wilds/Jim Berg. It shows a total misunderstanding of grace, forgiveness, and justice.

          Along with the above teaching that we deserve all of the injustices that happen to us, is the idea that we as Christians have no rights, and Christian women in particular have no rights (or we are called to give up our rights, or some nonsense like that). I think this idea might have originated with Bill Gothard, but it has been made popular by Nancy Leigh Demoss in her book “Lies Women Believe.” The BJUgrace website does an excellent job of debunking this false teaching http://bjugrace.com/2015/03/03/replying-to-one-who-says-christians-should-have-no-rights/.

          I for one don’t have an answer as to why there is so much injustice in the world, except that we live in a world where evil is real and present. I also believe in the Jesus who understands our human sufferings and grieves with us when we are hurt, and will someday, somehow, make all things right. But even that doesn’t answer the question.

          Sorry for the ranting folks. It was really cathartic.

        6. You know, we go to Romans 6 and use the verses there to talk about how sin enslaves us. But in all my exposure to teaching from that chapter, never once have I heard someone explain that sin enslaved the innocent as well.

          Sin commands a terrible price, and not necessarily on those doing the sinning. Yet we blame people for their own circumstances when we know that, for the most part, we didn’t create our own circumstances!

          One of the Scripture’s memes is that Christ came to set the prisoner free. We need to remember that many are captured and are not guilty of sin or crime to cause it.

        7. Dear WorkinMama:

          Thank you for ringing the changes on justice.

          You wrote: ‘sorry for the ranting folks. It was really cathartic.’

          I reply: No apology necessary! That is exactly why such a forum is needed!

          ‘He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does Yahweh require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God’ [Mic 6:8]?

          What some people refuse to acknowledge is that refusal to stand for justice is to side with injustice.

          I happen to believe that much of the Book of Revelation concerns justice and the powers of this age. I believe that it is precisely to avoid confronting those powers and associated injustice that many project the theology of this book into the future.

          Thank you for pointing us to the BJGrace page. That one was new to me.

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

        8. Dear CS,

          Thank you for your kind words. Right now I’m just trying to find my voice on these issues, and an anonymous forum seems to be a good place to practice. As an introvert and a female who has spent years in fundamentalism, it’s hard for me to believe that people would want to hear my voice in the public discussion of theology. Hence the unnecessary apology.

          Mic 6:8 is a beautiful passage, and I often pray it for my children. I want them to really understand justice and mercy.

          The BJUGrace website is very informative. It has a link to the Grace Report, which I have read, all 301 pages, and it seems to reflect so much of what it wrong with the IFB, not just at BJU, but across the country.

          Regarding the theology of Revelation, I think that teaching that certain passages of scripture only apply to the future is an easy way to let oneself off the hook, so to speak, for not following them. Many of the teachings of Jesus himself are also dismissed in this way (“that’s only for the Kingdom,” etc.)

        9. Dear Rgtmath,

          Thank you for your kind words. And what a fascinating look at Romans 6! I never thought of it that way before, even after memorizing the entire chapter during my teen years, but it makes sense. I think many of the Psalms also give a clear description of how the powerful oppress the weak and vulnerable. Sin does enslave the sinner, in that it holds the sinner captive to their own selfishness, but it can certainly also enslave the one being sinned against (the sinnee? ;-/ ) who is entirely innocent in the matter.

          It’s neat that you mentioned Christ coming to set the captives free. I was recently reading Luke 4:18 with one of my children: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor . . . to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised”. When you try to explain things like this to a preschooler, it makes you dig a little deeper and really think about the meaning.

      5. Dear rtgmath:

        This is above and beyond the call of duty. You have made SFL look like SFL again! Bravo! The only problem is, eventually it’ll be my turn to step into phundyland and produce a report for our beloved quazi-defunct forum.

        Christian Socialist

        PS: I trust that you had a joyous Advent and Christmastide, and that your better half continues to enjoy Epiphany with Episcopals! Blessings!

  49. Here is John Wilkerson, Jack Schaap’s replacement at FBCH, shaming people about soul-winning and their lack of love for Jesus:

    [in the first few seconds of video]
    “…every Christian ought to be a soul-winner. You have really only one opt… two options: You can either be a soul-winner, or we can be a disobedient Christian.”

    [at 03:13]
    “You talk about things we love. I talk about things I love; that’s why some of you don’t talk about Jesus.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE2B2rK2DKA

    BTW, I find it odd how he tends to use pronouns incorrectly. It happened in both quotes.

    1. The “Soul Patrol” haven’t heard that in years! Rolling with the Tide in 2016! Happy New Year haters!! #16

  50. First time I have looked the site up in the New Year and I am glad I did. Nice to see the candle still lit even if the site is growing dim.

      1. I’m taking wine, not for my stomach’s sake, but because it’s yummy.

        1. Dear The Inimitable Lady Semp:

          I’m taking it for my stomach’s sake, but my taste buds aren’t complaining…

          Christian Socialist

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