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Heading to Somewhere Else

1,239 Comments

“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”
“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the Cat.
“I don’t much care where–” said Alice.
“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the Cat.
“–so long as I get SOMEWHERE,” Alice added as an explanation.
“Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the Cat, “if you only walk long enough.”
(Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Chapter 6)

Eight years ago I started down a road out marked “Out of Here.” Today I’m sitting looking at another sign named “Somewhere Else.” I think it’s better here. Time will tell.

Those eight years since SFL started have brought us 2,075 posts, 12 million visits, and almost 150,000 comments. A lot has happened in that time and we’ve experienced it together.

Yet with all the words written and replied, fundamentalism is not dead — mostly because fundamentalism will never die as long as human beings are what they are. Pride, fear, and greed are the ingredients we all carry with us; fundamentalism just has its own family recipe for the way they mix and serve them.

When Stuff Fundies Like started began to gain popularity about six years ago I told myself that every anniversary I would take stock of my personal motivations and the reasons I kept writing. Today as I sit here I can honestly say that the reasons are all gone.

I haven’t darkened the door of a fundamentalist church (or many other churches) in years. For me, my fundamentalist past has become a fixed point in time, a place I can’t ever really go back to because my personal story has changed and the fundamentalism I knew has changed. The old names and faces have started to fade away even while the methods remain.

The Independent Baptist movement is a shell of its former self. The winds of change are blowing and although you’ll always find IFB churches hiding in the hills and hollers of this land they’re quickly becoming a cultural oddity. Someday they’ll be spoken of in the same breath as the Shakers, Amish, and other breakaway sects who stood still while time marched on.

As for me, I’m continuing my journey to Somewhere Else which means moving on from here. The SFL archives will remain but (unless something unforeseen occurs) this will be my last post here.

The Facebook page and Twitter account will stay live so that I can keep touch with you all if BIG NEWS breaks out in fundyland.

You can also reach me over at darrelldow.com or my writer’s page where I’ve been doing some writing on other topics.

The forum will stay active for as long as I can afford the hosting. If you want to register just drop me a line.

I’m also toying with the idea of compiling a Best Of SFL book with my original pieces in it. If you’d be interested in such a thing let me know.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t take the time to thank so very many people who have supported, contributed, encouraged, chided, goaded, and otherwise made this blogging experiment one of the best experiences of my life. SFL took me halfway around the world. It reconnected me with faces I’d all but forgotten. It has brought me so many new friends that time would fail to name them all.

I love you all. I wish you joy.

I’ll leave you with this song that I recently fell in love with that gives a wish that seem so very appropriate for those who’s roads are taking them from Back There past my resting spot on the way to Somewhere Else. “I hope life without a chaperon is what you thought it’d be…and that all your favorite bands stay together.”

1,239 thoughts on “Heading to Somewhere Else”

  1. Thank you for everything you have done with SFL, Darrell. I will miss it as a longtime lurker. I come from a different perspective than many. I never participated in an IFB church or any sort of fundamentalist environment, and SFL gave me a window into that world that helped me bring compassion rather than anger toward a group of people that I had huge trouble understanding. I have used examples from your posts and the wonderful commenters to bring insight to others about the worldview, lifestyle, and motivations of U.S. fundamentalists. The pain and joy displayed by you brave souls have brought me to tears many times.

    In your journey, may the road rise up to meet you, the wind be always at your back, and may you continue to encounter people that help you heal and that you help in return.

    And I would totally buy that book.

  2. The first thing I want to say is to the guy who was yelling about being sick of the “first” game a few posts back (I never did win by the way.) Hey dude, are you freakin’ happy now? 🙂

    1. I disagree with your implication that the “first” game, and the resulting debate about it, was the main reason the forum is closing.

      Sure, I do think it turned many people away, but Darren clearly has described other reasons Why he has closed the forum and I respect those and thank him for what he has done over the years.

      You cannot blame this all on the first game.

      (After the rude reception I revived I vowed not to post again, but these are special circumstances.)

      1. Sorry, I made spelling mistakes – especially Darren for Darrell.

        Once again Darrell, thanks for all you have done and good luck to everyone.

      2. I think it was a joke, PeterC.

        Btw, I meant to respond to the comment you made about the first thing and didn’t get a chance. I was going to say, it got on my nerves an awful lot when I first started reading here, too. I thought it was distracting and I did not ‘get it.’

        As I kept reading in the archives, I saw how it had developed and grown over time, how light-hearted it was, and the camaraderie that had developed between people through it, and my feelings totally changed to seeing it as amusing and endearing.

        I’m sorry you weren’t responded to with more patience. I think it’s just that you pushed the point and so people pushed back. I think if you’d had the chance to stay and keep commenting here, you’d have found the people here to be friends. Sometimes friends push back against each other. A good friendship can handle some things like that.

        I’m sure you didn’t mean to and didn’t expect touch off such a response. I hope it can be something you laugh about. I wish you well, PeterC. Unfortunately, neither you nor I will ever get to earn a butt cushion now. 🙁

  3. Thank you Darrell for creating SFL. You have been medicine to my weary soul at times I needed it most. Finish strong brother and for the last time here…

    ROLL TIDE!

    1. Shout out to Catholic Gate Crasher…maybe we can meet in Title Town one day and watch the Tide Roll! #16 is on the horizon. Roll Tide Roll!!

  5. Thank you. All the best for the future. I wish you well.

    PS: Would you consider a website about people who do ‘get it’ – featuring stories of people acting in loving, generous, kind, graceful, healing, non-judgmental ways? That would be lovely. You could call it ‘StuffJesusLikes’.

  7. You helped a great number of people, Darrel , including myself. I will always be thankful.

    Hamba gahle, umfowethu!

  8. Darrell,

    Since visiting SFL for the 1st time four years ago, I was hooked.

    For giving those of us who had escaped years earlier a therapy session that always met our needs, I say thank you.

    For creating an escape tunnel for those who have recently left or are still in process, I say well done.

    To all of you who challenged my mind, touched my emotions, and made me always want more, thank you.

    SFL is, and always will be, my good friend.

    Peace.

  10. Book!

    Seriously…you are and always shall be my friend. 😉

    Thank you for everything you have done. I know there are good things ahead for you.

  11. Dear Darrell:

    Through your labours here, God has touched and healed hearts. In other words, SFL is a share in Jesus’ ministry which our glorious God shared with you. Only eternity will reveal how many lives were changed through your little blog. I like to think that for years to come, people will still find help and courage to face questions and new perspectives because of what you have done.

    I am deeply grateful for the privilege of interacting with so many fine people over the years. I can’t begin recall them all, but special thanks goes to pastor’s wife who, when my admittedly troll-worthy moniker appeared, was the first poster to interact with me. And I will mention Shy1, the last ‘newbie’ I met. In case you missed it, ‘Wiz’ was a play on words that I intended to be read as ‘Wise1,’ because your post showed solid insight.

    Speaking of trolls, I made a commitment not to engage them on SFL other than to call them to repent for attacking SFL participants. However I never once defended myself from any of their accusations. Gratitude to all who spoke in MY defense in those times.

    This for you all, but especially for you, Darrell:

    The Lord bless you and keep you;
    the Lord make his face shine upon you
    and be gracious to you;
    the Lord turn his face toward you
    and grant you his peace.

    Christian Socialist

    1. Thank you! SFL helped keep me connected and made me feel that my voice mattered in a time where I felt very lost and disconnected, and I’ve really enjoyed interacting with others and hearing different perspectives, views that I didn’t hear when isolated in the IFB. Blessings, Christian Socialist!

      BTW, I recite that prayer you quoted to my children before they sleep.

    3. CS,
      I have appreciated your defense of other commenters over the years and calls for repentance. This was honorable of you and a great example to us all.

      the Admiral

  13. Thank you, Christian Socialist, I am honored. In reading through the archives, your comments have often been so kind and wise they have really encouraged me. I’m going to miss the interaction here!

  15. Your site has been a tremendous blessing to me personally after leaving a IFB church in 2013, I left a spiritually broken and insecure person and through your website I was able to work through much of the nonsense and learn to see it for what it was. I am happy to say I am now following Jesus not trying to please some arrogant MOG and loving every minute of it. Thank you for everything. Blessings!

  16. Darrell, Best of luck, and as they said on the shores of the Sea of Galilee lo these many moons ago, “Thanks for all the fishes.”

  17. I’m not surprised. Somehow I thought this was coming.
    I’m still such a newbie here, but very glad to have been a part of this as I grow out of fundyland. I think this site has eradicated the last smudges of PCC from my soul.
    Thanks to all of you here, I have found that I can be both a Christian and a liberal.
    God bless us, every one!
    Sondra Anderson

  18. Thank you, Darrell, from a longtime lurker and very occasional comment-er.
    I will miss the blog, the comments, and the sense of community that I experienced as I read.
    May your journey continue to be one that brings you fulfillment and growth!

  19. I’ll miss you and the site, Darrell. Thanks for all the years of great, entertaining and informative SFL material.

  20. As my husband put it when he found me crying in front of the computer screen upon reading this, “SFL was the first leg up out of the deep pit that you had been forced into by other people when you didn’t know any better.” SFL has been cathartic, perhaps more so than therapy because I could read and absorb hope and not have to talk it out quite yet. I don’t think you (Darrell and many other common posters) will ever know how much you’ve done for me. I think I’ll have more to add to that, but I’ve got to work it out in my head first.

    1. “SFL was the first leg up out of the deep pit that you had been forced into by other people when you didn’t know any better.”

      Yes. Amen.

  21. Thank you for the gift of this space. I will miss the conversations and the regular amazing contributors to this space.
    Blessing as you continue on your journey.

  22. Thanks SO MUCH for writing on this site for as long as you have! This site, and the forum, was a huge help when I needed it most following my exit from fundystan. I’m sure it’s been a great personal sacrifice for you to keep the posts rolling out every week, but they will still continue to help people, even as archives. Best wishes on your journey to “somewhere else”!

  23. Awesome blog and community. I’ve yet to read many of the archived posts, and yet to completely be free from the fundy monster. This place has been a source of hope. Thank you, Darrell. Thank you fellow SFLers.

  25. This site and the people on it have helped me see through years and years of blindness, prejudges, unnecessary guilt, ignorance and narrowmindedness. To learn that other people have shared similar experiences to my own has been a wakeup call. It’s freeing to learn that the same crap goes on other places and it’s just as insane as what I lived through The screaming evangelist, the screaming missionary, the countless sermons filled with guilt, hell-fire-and-brimstone if I’m not perfect, being afraid everyday of sinning and not itemizing my sin during prayer. I see the patterns in IFB churches now. I see the damage they have done to me. I still sometimes view life through the lens of my IFB upbringing. I’m doing a TON better, but it’s still there. It’s still a conscious process of decision making to work through that lens.
    Thank you all. A thousand thank yous and that’s not enough. I appreciate all of you who have offered comfort and support. You will all be missed.

    Bert

  27. I can’t believe you’re done here . . . You, Darrell, and this site helped me so much as I moved out of Fundyland. You helped me realize the things that bothered me were actually things that were wrong and I didn’t have to deal with them or feel guilty for not wanting to be a part of it anymore (and I was in deep). I’m thankful for “meeting” Big Gary and Pastor’s Wife and so many others (I haven’t posted much in the last couple years but there was time I was here every day. Won a butt cushion back in the day.)

    I’d buy an SFL book. Just don’t put a white piano on the cover.

  28. When I first came to SFL in 2010, my IFB experience was at least three years in the past. Because my parents and I had rejected the extreme teachings of the IFB even while we continued to attend that church for over ten years, Darrell’s humor and sarcasm were what drew me in. But as Darrell’s insight and the SFL community motivated me to stick around, his deeper observations helped me to see ways in which I had been harmfully influenced by subtle, less obviously damaging IFB teachings.

    Over the next few years, as this clarity helped me to heal in ways that I didn’t know I was wounded, I started to see cracks in the worldview of the conservative SBC-ish Baptist church that I had started attending (and which I attend to this day). These cracks were widened by my eventual coming out to myself and the interactions I had with the LGBT Christian community, but I’m still going to blame Darrell for starting the whole situation by pushing me down the slippery slope to heresy on the poop deck of the Black Pearl of Great Price Before Swine. 😉

    Anyway, Darrell, now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

    If anyone wants to connect, email me at thtr sound guy at gmail dot com (naturally, remove spaces and punctuate appropriately) and I’ll point you to my Facebook or my primary email as you wish (I’d rather not write my full name in the clear in this context because reasons). Either that or hit me up on the SFL forums (@Josh) if you’re there.

      1. I make no claims as to whether I’m sound or not, but I am a guy. 😮

        (Nah, seriously, I am connected to the A/V field.)

        2. This might be the only good thing about the demise of SFL. No longer will anyone be subjected to those juvenile Young Cox.

          the Admiral

  29. God bless you, your family and your servants heart that has taught me so much. Thank you for all you’ve done.

  30. I didn’t discover SLF ’til about last year and I haven’t said much at all, but this place has been such a breath of fresh air and very encouraging. Thank you, Darrell, and may God bless you richly wherever it is He leads you next.

    Also, I would totally buy that book.

  31. I found SFL while googling a popular fundy song for someone. I spent the next few days obsessively reading every post every chance I got. I was amazing to discover that I was not alone in my suspicious that all was not right in IFB land. This blog was literally my first step towards the exit and has been such an encouragement and support for me.

    Thank you, Darrell. Thank you for sharing your experiences and allowing others to freely share theirs. Thank you for your humor, that helped just as much as the more serious posts.

    I’m still not quite out yet, and dread the fallout that is sure to come. Those who can, please keep posting to the forum. All the comments are beneficial in one way or another, either in outright encouragement, or by causing me to think through what I really believe. This blog and forum has been a map for me to follow as I leave the craziness.

    Thank you, thank you.

  32. thanks Darrell for all your work exposing bad beliefs and practices. Jesus did the same in Mt. 23.

    I would like to join the forums but am not on facebook to drop you a line. How can I join?

  33. I can’t say what everybody else hasn’t already said. SFL, internetmonk.com, and recoveringgrace.org have been the three sites that have rescued me — there’s really no other way to put it.

    In odd coincidence, my old church has been taking its final gasps last week and this. There’s some people trying to jump-start it, but I really doubt they’ll succeed. I know some folks will end up in even worse churches, but there will be several who will make it out, whether they know it now or not.

    As for me, I guess I’m going to have to break down and join the forums now.

  34. Darrell, SFL was a big part of my wife and my journey from fundamentalism to normalcy. I can’t thank you enough. I’m sad for what will be missing but glad for what was here.

  36. Good luck.

    I’ll miss this place and everyone.

    I’m this name on WordPress and Gmail.

    And I still need that buttcushion from my one First. Hardwood uncovered pews older than my grandmother are still just as uncomfortable as they ever were.

  37. I read the following from Jim Peet at the pseudo-fundamentalist Sharper Iron (SI) about this blog. Jim wrote, “Took a ‘poke fundamentalism in the eye’ approach. At times on target – eg re Jack Schaap. But largely swinging at the straw man piñata.”

    Jim’s opinion above of this blog is a near perfect description of what SI has been from its inception.

    LM

    1. Ah…. Lou Martuneac. The fundy troll that is like the Energizer Bunny. Nice parting shot, Lou. Breaking Peet’s kneecaps on SFL is definitely a classy move and just about par for you.

    2. I know Jim Peet personally. He made a good attempt at bringing me back into fundamentalism after I had escaped my charismatic fundy cult. It didn’t work, and I won’t be going back. Ever.

      I’m disappointed to see what he wrote. But I guess I’m fully out of fundamentalism now, and shouldn’t be as surprised as I am.

      Sharper Iron, ultimately, is as much a cesspool at TGC and other sites. Ignore those trolls.

  38. Thank you for everything, the laughs, the resources, the facts and mostly for helping me heal from the damage that fundamentalism has caused me.

    Best of luck in everything you do.
    -Britanni

  39. What a bittersweet post. This site has been so helpful and healing after I came out of a strict, fundamentalist background—it reminded me we’re all not alone and that our circumstances are (unfortunately) anything but just ours alone. And it just so happened that Darrell and I have met each other IRL; small world and all that jazz.

    So thank you, Darrell, for stepping up and making this blog. Thanks to every commenter, everyone in the community who’s added to the conversation and inspired us to think differently and that we’re not all wrong for leaving.

    SFL will absolutely be missed, though I’m thankful I’m at a place now where fundamentalism seems like a crazy link to the past and not a chain on my present and future. And that’s good—and partly thanks to this site.

    Wishing joy to you and yours as well, Darrell!

  40. Hey Darrell,

    I first discovered your blog when someone informed me that a video I produced for Golden State Baptist College appeared on the site. I at one point produced videos for dozens of IFB churches and schools. Several of them made it onto this website. I would sit and read through the comments. And though I considered some of the comments to be fueled by bitterness and condescension at first, I slowly but surely began to see things from a different perspective. Four years later, I’ve quit working with IFB churches producing videos, and lending my creativity to a very flawed movement. I left the IFB altogether and am happily attending a non-denominational church. I can honestly say that this site was the rude awakening I needed to finally start seeing things clearly.

    Thank you for being willing to take the heat that is so generously dished out by the IFB when someone dares disagree with them.

    This, of course, is my first and last post. But you made a difference for me and, in a very unexpected way, I’m grateful.

  41. Best wishes to you in your new journey. I’ve found the site illuminating (as a complete outsider, I had no idea about the IFB subculture), but can appreciate that there may not be much left to say about it, and that you want to move on.

    It’s interesting that you see these churches as declining. (Certainly their colleges are.) In any case, I’m sure that their preachers will still find critics and parodists, and the cycle of affiliation and disaffiliation will continue, just as it does for other religious subcultures.

  42. The winds of change are blowing and although you’ll always find IFB churches hiding in the hills and hollers of this land they’re quickly becoming a cultural oddity. Someday they’ll be spoken of in the same breath as the Shakers, Amish, and other breakaway sects who stood still while time marched on.

    I hope you are right. At the moment, I don’t think so. Maybe IFB churches per se are dwindling, but something is taking their place, and it isn’t secularism. Voices are getting nastier.

    Oh, the winds of change are blowing, and the future is coming, but I don’t necessarily see IFBism losing real influence. I see it consolidating.

    But, Darrell, I hope I’m wrong and hope you’re right.

    1. In my estimation, the “my way or the highway” has passed from the IFB to conservative evangelicalism, and a group on the far side of the political left in the United States has lit their own version of the same torch. Fundamentalism seems to be getting more deeply entrenched, just with a different, broader set of players. Hang on tightly, we’re in for quite a ride!

    2. Some people fled IFB churches and joined SBC (or similar) ones, without ever analyzing and ridding themselves of the Fundy mindset they had previously absorbed. This has brought Fundy influences into more churches. Sure, they might use modern music, the women wear pants, and even use a NASB or NIV – but there are Fundy attitudes and ideas lurking. These other churches are becoming more separated, judgmental, and political.

      Look how much widespread support the Duggar family had within Christianity. Why weren’t they recognized as the sick Gothard cultists they obviously are?

      My former Fundy mega-church in CA has changed in some ways. Female members are wearing jeans (away from church only, of course), posting about non-approved music, and attending things that would have landed me in trouble back when I attended. This church’s teen services looks like copycat Rick Warren Saddle Back Church productions. I laugh at how much they resemble the modern services we were warned about 15 years ago! (The same does NOT go for their college students, who continue to have no freedom. They would lose the support of the student’s home pastor if they were to appear “liberal”. It seems like their standards have dissolved into being just a marketing ploy for their college. )

      So I agree that Fundystan is changing. They no longer want to be viewed as the insane, backwards step-cousins of Christianity, so are trying to look more modern. But deep down they are still bat-crap crazy Fundies.

      1. It’s too bad these churches didn’t start by “washing the inside of the cup first,” isn’t it?

    3. I see Doug Wilson and his ilk as the new danger. They are extremely patriarchal, and Wilson has been involved in some very creepy stuff including giving character references to pedophiles, up to performing a wedding for one in his church. The man went on to have a child with his poor new wife (they got engaged on the second date, pretty standard practice in the very scary courtship culture), and he is now only allowed to see the child every now and then because he engaged in some sort of inappropriate behavior with said child.

      The scary thing about Wilson’s crowd over at his blog (Blog and Mablog) and others like him is that this crowd is younger, better educated, and very tech savvy. They sound legit, look legit, and aren’t stuck in 1950s music and dress. Basically, Fundyland has changed its clothes but not its heart. It’s simply washed the outside of the cup.

      I recently found out that a friend of mine has moved to Wilson’s ministry to go to his college, and I’m so upset. I’ve seen disturbing things on my friend’s blog lately, and I didn’t understand where it was coming from. Now I know.

      There is still work to be done.

      1. Hi Caffeinated Squirrel,
        Unfortunately, I think there’s a lot of truth to your statements. “Washing the outside of the cup” — absolutely. Patriarchy and the courtship movement are not going away anytime soon — they even seem to be gaining momentum among mainstream evangelicals. I’ve watched videos of Doug Wilson online and at first glance his message sounds very articulate and intelligent, at the very same time that he is spewing poison and insanity.
        WM
        P.S. Patriarchy. Can anyone please pass me a barf-bag?

      2. No doubt you’re right, Squirrel, but I just have to say that “Blog and Mablog” is a great title. It makes me mad that I didn’t think of it first.

        1. It’s a wonderful title. Wilson is a smart man and a clever one. Which makes him all the more dangerous, because what he says sounds smart and well-reasoned (and in a way, it is, if you subscribe to his line of thinking).

        3. Especially if they are tech savvy. Believe it or not, ISIS is extremely tech-savvy. They use Twitter, Facebook and other social media to put their twisted message across.
          Do I detect parallels?

  43. Thanks for all you’ve done. Even though I was already out, you and many others helped me validate much of my thinking. God be with you.
    Bob

    3. Nice article Jeri. Until you revealed your apostasy by claiming to have seen the white piano. 🙂

  45. I discovered this blog while googling for Christian opinions about tattoos – I’m a dedicated collector of body art 🙂 I grew up as a Protestant Evangelical in Northern Ireland (still live there) and I discovered that so much of the stuff explored on this site resonated with me.
    This blog has been a source of healing for me as well a challenge. Some posters have rattled my cage more than once (I won’t mention any names, rtgmath, so rest easy) and made me think about what I believe, and why. That has been good for me. Thank you rtgmath, Bald Jones grad, Laird Don, MiriamD, II Lady Semp, stuartB, Uncle Wilver, Natalie (I’m still waiting for my butt cushion,by the way) , Carholic Gate Crasher, and a host of others for your thoughtful and thought-provoking posts as well as your snark and humor 🙂 I love you all and wish God’s richest blessing on you. Even Greg- May God draw especially close you you, and soak you with his Love and his Blessings.

      2. You said Farrell, and I thought that Tom Farrell, the fundyvangelist who scared me into saying the Sinner’s prayer twice, was trying to infiltrate the forum.

        I got saved again. Damn it. Every. Single. Time.

  46. Awwww, Hate to see you go as you were our beacon and strength helping many heal from suppressed hurt of Fundyism.

    This forum even helped me help others and I became protective of them keeping them from being influenced by other Fundys.

    Thank you Darrell for what you did here and may you enjoy your new journey.

  47. Great job and thank you Darrell!

    I learned a lot. I laughed even a lot more.

    The virtual friendships that have been made will be forever etched in my memories. As will the trolls who reminded us of what we were leaving behind.

  48. This site has been my favorite for so long. I’ll never forget discovering it after being out of fundamentalism for only a few months. It was the post about girls putting safety pins in the skirt slits and my sister and I laughed so hard and for the first time, we had found a community that understood the past we came from. Since discovering SFL, my views and beliefs are completely different than I thought they would ever be and SFL has definitely played a part in that. I would most definitely read that book and I wish you all the best!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

  49. So long, and thanks for all the fish.
    .
    .
    .
    Sorry, I couldn’t leave without another non sequitur, and this line keeps popping into my head as I read parting comments.

  50. From the bottom of my heart, Thank you Darrell! I don’t come here as often as I used to, and I almost never comment anymore, but your posts and the commenters on the posts pushed me out of my comfort zone in so many areas. Your humor, sarcasm, and parody spoke to me way more than a person telling me what to think.

    Thanks to the following early contributors who were significant in helping me to mentally move away from fundamentalism and who clear up some of the cognitive dissonance in my head: Scorpio, Pastor’s Wife, RobM, Natalie, Don, and many others that I couldn’t possibly name.

    This site has been more helpful than many therapists.

    Kevin Johns – 2001 Bob Jones graduate.

      1. OLD? What! I’m an ’89 Applied Studies grad, who had already made one 2 year attempt at college, and then was married three years before he went back to school.

        Okay, my knees, ankles, and shoulders, and gray beard say I’m old.
        PW, I have really enjoyed getting to know you here. If it was to work out, I’d love to meet over a cup of coffee. I’m not sure when we’ll get to CA again, and my last visit there I learned just how big the state is. Maybe one day………

        2. Be quiet and respect your elders, both of you. I’m a proud graduate of BJU 1980 School of Religion.

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