185 thoughts on “#CapitolConnection2015”

      1. Hello, Oxymoron. Styling yourself a “Biblical Baptist” is that at its best, since one cannot be both at the same time.

        Very few even approach being biblical at all, and these pastors certainly don’t.

        This is a show, puffery and an outlet for their prejudices to be legitimized. They advocate not the rule of Law and not the rights of individuals to choose for themselves, but restictions, repression, punishment, unjust wars abroad and discrimination at home. They hope to force their cultural gospel on others by government and rules, and have abandoned showing the goodness of God and the gospel of grace to those who are out of the way.

        What’s wrong with that? Only that while they profess themselves to be servants of God their works show the very opposite. They serve their own desire for power.

        1. rtgmath, i would have to disagree with much of what you said here. It is possible to be a Baptist AND biblical – just not when you are hardcore IFB. My own church is non-dom but with its roots in the Brethren movement. It has no evening service so on Sunday evenings I would often go to a Baptist church which is about 6-7 minutes walk from where I live. I would say there is literally a World of difference between that church and the kind of “baptist church” you are all too familiar with. Of course the bozos in to photo would probably say it is not even Christian let alone Baptist because it is not like them. There *are* Baptist churches in Northern Ireland which are like the IFB in attitudes and practices, but I think that is not so much a characteristic of Baptists as typical of the Ulster protestant culture in general. Biblical Baptist, it is good to pray with and for your leaders. It is *what* you pray for them that makes the difference.

        2. Rtgmath , after rereading what you said, I find myself agreeing with you more. I disagree with you when you say that, being a Baptist means you can’t be biblical. Ifb say the same about Catholics. And Episcopalians. Please don’t adopt their attitudes. Please.

        3. I confess to wanting a way to draw and quarter George.

          But as I was trying to say before George short-circuited my iPhone, I confess to having written it when already irritated about something else.

          In any case, I am sure Paul (the Apostle) would say there is nothing Biblical about our partisan labeling, I am of the Presbyterians, I am a Baptist, I am of Christ (the Plymouth Brethren), and such. “Baptist Distinctives” are proof of being unbiblical, since the Church is supposed to be one body, not many. And in denying authority over the local pastor, they have a system where each flock is food for a false shepherd.

          So I still say that one cannot be Baptist and Biblical at the same time.

          But then, being a follower of Jesus and being Biblical is problematic as well. The Bible contains many horrid things considered moral. Jesus Himself declared that the Law was imperfect, catering to the hardness of people’s hearts. Paul said that thebLaw made nothing perfect.

          Biblical would have us stoning sinners, children included. Biblical sets up the Bible as the object of worship, not the God the Bible speaks of. Claiming to be Biblical is an indication of a heart full of self, puffed up with feelings of being right, unable to be humble or gracious.

          I certainly agree with Paul that I have not Attained the Goal.

          From Worst to Better, I would order my options Baptist, then Biblical, then Following Jesus.

          I hope this is better explained. I apologize for being irritated earlier.

        4. I confess that I occasionally wish there was a special kind of hell for that pesky George…. It’s all too easy to be partisan, but is much more enriching to worship wirh other denominations. personally I’m a bit of a religious mongrel. I grew up methodist but my fathers parents were originally Anglican, and my mother was a Quaker. Two of my brothers are still methodist, other is Anglican, and my sister married a man from a Brethren background, and became Brthren for many years and is now Baptist. I have Presbyterian cousins and catholic second-cousins. My own church grew out of the brethren movement but is not brethren in outlook and I often go to a Baptist church in the evenings. I still have strong links with the Methodist church I grew up in, and during the week I would often attend meetings in an Anglican church. I have been to quite a few Quaker events as well. All of this has enriched my Christian life and my walk with Jesus, beyond measure. So I guess I am kind of Ruined Brethren, part-time Baptist, part-time Anglican, part-time Methodist and occasional Quaker. No wonder the True Fundamentalists have serious doubts about my Salvation!! 🙂

      2. BiblicalBaptist asked, “So the purpose of posting this is what exactly? Since when is it wrong to visit our leaders and pray for or with them.”

        My former Fundy pastor is known for globetrotting on the church’s dime, and this annual Washington D.C. vacation appears to be no exception. He could visit these same leaders at their local offices – with other church members too – and pray and lobby for much less expense.

        This trip seems to be all about the photo ops, socializing, and grandstanding. We should just start calling it the IFB Annual Convention.

        They tell their flocks how they are representing God in D.C. Does God have no representation there already? Are prayers for our nation more effective if uttered in D.C.? Will congresspersons only listen to their constituents if they make a pilgrimage to the Capitol Building?

        All show. No Substance.

        1. Matthew 6:5-6
          5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
          That is what is wrong with what they are doing in Washington, Biblical Baptist. Those verses give tell how God wants to be ”represented” and it isn’t on camera.

      3. Though many IFBs are stuck with the traditions of Fundy forefathers, it is important to realize and consider that there is a new gen of thinking. You can be a Baptist theologically, conservative in practice, and have a good disposition at the same time. How do I know? Cuz that’s what I do.

        1. Glad to hear it. Though, to be honest, being a Baptist isn’t great credentials. It means you have bought into a one-sided doctrinal position and will see Scripture from a particular viewpoint which pretty much excludes cultural-historical considerations.

          “Conservative in practice” is also problematic. Your Savior was not conservative in practice, but brought forward radical ideas and actions. He was not careful. He was not socially acceptable. He ate and drank with sinners. He did not preach defiance of the government.

          It is great you have a good attitude. But to maintain it you will definitely have to change the other pieces. You can’t keep a good attitude but believe and practice modern-day Phariseeism — which is the essence of “conservative Baptist” anything.

          So you have a good start.

        1. I can’t even begin to think how to make 1/3rd of a butt cushion. I just can’t work under this pressure!!!

      1. The Earth shall inherit the Meek. Christians aren’t supposed t beleave in Evolution but many of these guys in the photo seem to believe in a particularly brutal form of Social Darwinism.

        1. I’m a Christian, and I very definitely believe in Evolution. Evolution happens to be a fact. But just because something is in one arena doesn’t mean that is the way it should be in every area.

          You are right. These people do believe in a brutal form of Social Darwinism. The Rich shall inherit the Earth. Lazarus should have gone to hell instead of the Rich man. The Rich are the makers and the poor are the takers.

          These Pastors cavort with people who take food from the poor, give wealth to their donors, and make unjust war. I don’t like the idea of a forever Hell, but for these pastors and their favorite lawmakers, a nice long purgatory would be appropriate.

      1. Isn’t the assumption that because a Democrat is President we have a weak military due to reduced spending?

        Because America would never be attacked if we had a Republican for President.

        1. That’s what I’ve heard some of those Repubs saying.
          Of course, nobody has attacked Costa Rica or Iceland (countries with no military at all).

        2. Wasn’t there a Republican president on 9/11, or am I already going senile?

          (No one is allowed to answer the second half of that question)

        3. And the first was rhetorical, so no one is allowed to answer my comment.

          Yep, I’m going senile.

        4. The main thing I know about Republicans on 9/11/01 is that Rudy Giuliani was so traumatized then that ever since then, he can’t say anything except, “I was mayor on nine-eleven. I was mayor on nine-eleven. I was mayor on nine-eleven …”

        5. What everyone but the poor citizens of Toronto, loves about Rob Ford is that he is someone else’s mayor. The mayor of the city I live in was arrested for fraud but hardly anyone noticed because Rob Ford.

        1. Maybe not the right kind, Paul? Not their kind, not the ones who will do what they want God, I mean God wants them, to do?

      1. The local office comment is a good point – it used to be something of a “thing” for megachuch pastors (of a variety of denominations) to tout their personal relationships with congresspersons, governors, and other political VIPs based on actual personal relationships. (E.g., Sam Davison of Southwest Baptist Church used to brag regularly about his friendship with local prominent politician David Boren.) This arose from a time when the Republicans were still actively trying to bring conservative Christians into the fold. That deed has long since been accomplished and, unless and until the True Believers take their votes elsewhere (NB: they won’t), the Republicans know that no further action or pandering is needed other than the occasional back scratch, meaningless state legislative resolution, and photo op.

    1. Re: hovertext. The thing is that religious fundamentalists DO have an outsized influence in American politics. And it is indeed scary. The Republicans know that they are an extremely reliable voting cohort – this empowers them to a greater extent than many Americans know.

  1. A couple I know went. The husband is a non-fundy pastor. They go every year, this wasn’t their first time. I’m not sure exactly why this is a yearly priority for them but will find out when they get back.

  2. I am amused at how they think they are making some kind of grand statement. I live in the general D.C. area. Demonstrations for all kinds of causes go on ALL the time by all kinds of groups. It’s part of a normal day over there. They tend to blend together and become part of the scenery. They will come and go and few will notice.

    1. I agree, but don’t forget the marketing bump that can often come with a big, flashy DC trip that may not impress Congress but sure does impress the folks back home.

  3. I give them a pass for this on the grounds that I think all people should contact their reps express their opinions about whatever issues that are important to them. That’s exactly why we have a representative form of government.

    Having said that, it is laughable to treat this as some sort of missions trip to Washington or something. This is a vacation for people who can’t take normal vacations that involve swimming and going to the beach, which you don’t do with a suit and tie.

    I always find it amusing when fundies treat their representatives as noble men of God as long as they give lip service to their pet issues. It doesn’t matter that the guy is a Calvinist, Catholic, or Episcopalian, or a…gasp….Southern Baptist, for which he would normally be condemned. He ain’t a librul, haymen?

    GW Bush was a such a saved man of God, according to so many. Then the Bushes leave the White House and start endorsing gay marriage (at least Laura did publicly). I guess he wasn’t so much like them as they thought.

    I hate it when people actually believe the pandering of politicians.

    1. I agree that people should express their political views freely. What I don’t like is fundamentalist pastors who purport to speak for their church members rather than letting them speak for themselves.

    2. What we have to realize is that contacting your representatives is going to accomplish absolutely nothing except make you feel good about yourself and feel like you are part of the system. Unless you are a lobbyist and have dollar bills falling out of your pockets along with plane tickets and weekend getaways to offer, your representative will not care what you say or do. If a camera is around they will say they care, but the reality is that they don’t. The system is corrupt. It has been corrupt for years. And I don’t see it changing other than the rhetoric getting nastier and nastier. Our side is right and your side is wrong. Throw in the topic-du-jour that becomes the biggest issue ever to face the human race. And remember, I’m right about it and are wrong. In fact you are the wrongiest wrongerer of all time.

      1. I think if you are contacting your representative in an organized, planned way it can be and is effective. Efforts by World Vision, One, International Justice Mission, etc help people that are for their causes to put together a presentation to take to various local congress critter offices around the country and are effective in getting them to consider various humanitarian efforts. It’s a pretty limited scope and in the general budget doesn’t amount to a lot, but it’s something, and is very helpful to the causes that can get influence that way.

        Most other “political” objectives are accomplished with more brute force/money backing than by citizen participation though.

        1. Yes, we are a democracy of money, not a democracy of citizens. Majority still rules, it’s just the majority of the wealth. But it’s been this way for a long time – the Founding Fathers were, for the most part, the wealthy elite of their day and put in place a system that, until the Great Depression and FDR, largely catered to the wealthy elite. The pendulum is just swinging back that direction again.

          As for all the do-gooder organizations you mention, I’m fine with that as long as they focus their lobbying efforts on genuine problems and not on the latest trendy evangelical “cause” such as the recent ridiculous obsession with “human trafficking.”

    3. I would give them a pass except I was part of a church a couple years ago that mare this a big deal. There was a huge build up to it then when they got back there was a lot of talk about how God blessed and shook the foundations of the country for his cause. Lots of patting themselves in the back about what a great job they did and how the congressman really appreciated their visit.

      Politicians always say they appreciate the visit and consider your particular cause important, it’s how they stay in office.

      What probably bothered me the most was how the pastor had lapel button that looked very similar to the one worn by congressman. Building staff often mistook him as a congressman because of it and gave him special treatment like clearing crowds do he could get through. Sadly he allowed this to go on and to make it worse, the group of people from the church that went with him got left behind in the crowd because of it. So many things wrong what happened but all they could talk about is how wonderful and important the pastor is.

    4. I agree all people should contact their representatives and take an interest in government and issues.
      But the fundies take it a bit far. Not only have they taken an interest, they have anointed a certain political party as the party of God. Anyone who votes for or are part of the other political party are heathens, heretics, etc.
      I often joke that the fundies have added a 4th member to the Trintiy–Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and KJV….but I am wondering if the Trinity for fundies really is–Father, Son, KJV, America.

      1. Or “Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Republican Party.” And I even admit this as a registered member of the party, though I don’t agree with that attitude in the church.

      2. Among Protestants in Northern Ireland the rallying cry was always “For God And Ulster!” I guess it still is. The two cannot be separated. As to which is preeminent is basically immaterial because the are exactly the same 🙁

  4. I was impressed with all of the diversity represented in the pictures.

    And by diversity I mean all the diverse colors of ties.

    In these people’s minds, America is white, middle aged, male and Christian. If you do not fit into that group you do not count.

    1. Yes, Scorpio! I look at that picture and see old, white, privileged, straight, males. Just whom are they representing? Well obviously not me because I am not even American but the one tweet that really made me laugh was, “We fail here, we fail across the world.” Okay then, buddy. The world really doesn’t care. Go ahead and roll in it and take the smell home because they are the only ones that care.

    2. Hmmm…. I am white, middle aged, male and Christian….. But I am not american…. Also I am not a Fundamentalist is these people would understand it so obviously my “Christianity” is suspect.

    1. The rest of the heathens & mormons can be lead by wimmin. Once they are saved they are then in charge, and can have the wimmin make sammiches for them. Hope that helps clarify.

  5. Dear Darrell:

    Brilliant! Simply brilliant! Hovertext is great also. And true. Reading those five lines, I recalls Erasmus’ comment that Luther committed two sins; he touched the pope on the head and on the belly. Apologies to any Roman Catholics … no offense intended.

    Christian Socialist

  6. It’s such a foolhardy trip of self aggrandizement and reading the twitter stream of them being “touched” by various “Good Christian” congresspersons that they either are being willfully ignorant of what the person actually believes, or so incredibly naive that it doesn’t even take cynical manipulation/evasive answers to mislead the dopes.

    1. Folks, anybody can walk into a Senator’s or Representative’s office office and be patronized. I’ve done it myself.
      It doesn’t cause a harmonic convergence in the world’s cosmic consciousness.

        1. BG – your office can have an office. It’s even better when you put a door between the two. Ask Jack Hyles.

      1. It doesn’t event take a GOOD politician to know how to appease this crowd by just throwing a few canards with no implications whatsoever, do some gladhanding and smiling and you get a big PR boost for no effort. Unpopular & lazy local schoolboard members know to kiss babies and it negates votes that your constituents didn’t want you to cast.

        1. Talking of kissing babies I saw a clip once of Bill Clinton as President doing the ShakeHands, Kiss-Babies schtick. When he handed one baby back the darling litlle lad had left a twelve-inch trail of puke down the front of Bill’s jacket. I thought: this kid’s going to be a great political commentator when he grows up.

  7. Some fat Fundy boys in black suits
    Thought their Senators all gave hoot
    As they posed at the side door
    For a half-hour or more,
    And did other things equally moot.

  8. No, George, try again.

    Some fat Fundy boys in black suits
    Thought their Senators all gave a hoot
    As they posed at the side door
    For a half-hour or more,
    And did other things equally moot.

  9. Why are they referring to the Republican Party as “the party that did not boo God!” ?

    Sounds like a disingenuous statement made to satisfy some confirmation bias.

      1. Okay, perhaps not entirely disingenuous, but still, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I vaguely remember that. These Fundie preachers held on tight to that.

        On the flip side of that, I think the RNC had their stage deliberately set up to look like the altar of a Baptist Church in 2008. To be fair, the DNC of that year looked a little too much like The Wizard of Oz, – replace emerald with sapphire. The two major parties need to get away from the team colors.

        Challengers to the White House have their convention first, so I’m sure we all are going to hear about the “booed God” thing during next year’s convention. Perhaps coming from Huckabee, Ted Cruz or special guest Phil Robertson.

        1. Baptist Churches have altars?

          Oh, I forgot. The MOG is up front, in the spotlight. No communion elements or anything like that to distract one’s attention.

        1. Sorry, after I googled the suggested words, I watched the confusing You Tube video of what went down. Then I posted my response. I then read-up about this some more, and it absolutely is sound and fury, and little else.

          That’s why I vaguely remember it.

  10. Are you tired of the usual speeches?
    Then latch onto Reps as would leeches.
    What won’t they say
    To make you go away
    So they won’t have to bear all your screeches?

    1. The G.O.P. lip service pays
      To Fundies who heap them with praise.
      But for pols on the right,
      The great dragon they’ll fight
      Bears the title– “The Dread E.P.A.

      1. Gack! ignore the first post.

        Senators lip service pay
        To Fundies who swagger and pray.
        But for pols on the right,
        The great dragon they’ll fight
        Bears the title, “The Dread EPA.”

  11. I used to think these events really stood up for God.

    As if God is some poor victim that needs standing up for. He’s been kicked out of school and nobody talks to him anymore. Poor God. The fundie preachers of America, all fifty of them, gotta go show Washington that they can’t kick God around on their watch.

    Seriously… If God is as helpless as they think he is, he’s not much of a God. Also, I’m not really sure how this does a thing for the gospel.

    1. They don’t really see themselves as preachers of Christ. They see themselves more as Old Testament prophets who stood before the king and denounced his ungodliness.

      1. Yeah, when I realized BJU (my FundieU) didn’t really actually find Jesus all that necessary or convenient (all that talk of loving your neighbor and not casting stones and grace is a bit awkward, I guess), it was a very clarifying moment. They just kinda trot Him out whenever He’s convenient.

        1. Much like the flag, Jesus is a prop to be produced when you need to deflect criticism or otherwise distract the audience.

        1. Doc, you’re late to the party. I get that ad on my sidebar all the time. I think it’s Scorpio’s fault.

    1. The ironic thing is that if God *did* decide to open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings in the form of revival and did *His* way, these same poeople who are praying for Revival would condemn it as a work of Satan because it would go against Fundamentalist Doctrine and Practice. God would never do that.

        1. “God’s Blessings,” to them, mean wrath and destruction on their chosen enemies. It means the establishment of their authority to rule on the earth, to force people to leave the decision-making to them.

  12. Looking for it through the thread and yep, like clockwork. Ps 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. Except it never somehow includes the next statement “the people whom he has chosen for his own inheritance”. Because then it would have to refer to the church universal, not any human political construct. Not Israel, and certainly not the US despite any number of IFBs with there hands on the levers of power and their fingers on the nuclear keys.

    1. Yes, well, the ancient notion of a “nation” being a race/tribe of people rather than the modern conception of all the people who live within certain geographical borders is quite lost on these goons.

  13. It’s adorable how special they think this makes them. Of course people should let their reps know how they feel. That’s part of being a citizen. My job has an advocacy component and I feel strongly about other issues so a couple of times a year I go to Capitol Hill or the Statehouse and earnestly tell my elected Midwestern rednecks how important I think expanding healthcare access, or banning breed-specific legislation, or not slashing education funding to the bone is. They nod seriously and thank me for my visit; I smile and thank them for seeing me. Then they go back to defunding schools and blocking any possibility of a state health insurance exchange while I flip the double bird at their office door and volunteer for their opponent’s next campaign.

    That makes me a citizen doing what I’m supposed to do in a democratic society, not a special snowflake or some extra-righteous Christian soldier.

  14. Lobbying Congress is a colossal waste of time unless, as other commenters have noted, you have millions of dollars of swag to spread around. The organization I work for stopped sending our yearly delegation to DC for this very reason – they didn’t want to hear from us anyway and our money was better spent elsewhere.

  15. Given the extreme narcissism and power hungry attitudes of Congress Members in D.C. it makes sense that IFB preachers would be drawn there to be among their own kind.

  16. Wait… I could be wrong, but is that BJIII and Stephen walking in the front there? I swear I recognize that balding pattern, lol. (For the record, III was very kind to me personally on more than one occasion while I was at BJU, so while I’m very ready to recognize his shortcomings, I do have a warm spot for those memories in my heart. And Stephen once helped my brother prank his RA, so yeah. But I digress. I’m pretty sure that’s them.)

      1. Right in the middle, bottom, backs facing the camera. If it’s them, BJIII is wearing a grey jacket with dark pants. They’re not in the big group, but sort of walking up to it.

  17. Oh, a bunch of fat white guys in suits and ties on the steps of the capital. My tuner doesn’t pick the static up, so I’ll just have to try and read lips.

    B.R.1

  18. A couple more links for the event:

    http://awakeamericaonline.org/capitol-connection-2015.html

    http://tomafaulk.com/2015/03/26/awake-america-2015/

    I especially liked the video where they laid hands on Rand Paul last year. I wonder if Ted Cruz will allow them to anoint him? Ted Cruz’s preacher dad has predicted that he will become King (yes, King) of the United States and get all the riches of the wicked (no, not the corporations, the people who disagree with him!). Ted Cruz wants to become President. Temporarily. Until he can become King.

  19. “So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; 39but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.” 40They took his advice…”

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