???

2015-03-10

I would dearly love for somebody at WCBC to give me some context as to what exactly is going on here. Perhaps these aren’t West Coast students but actually members of the White Clay Bicycle Club showing off their new super sunscreen formula? Or perhaps not.

Whater it is, it certainly doesn’t seem meet their own criteria for “appearance of evil.”

235 thoughts on “???”

    1. Romans 14:12. Everyone of us will give account of himself to God.
      Finding fault with others is great! It makes us look good. However we should spend our time fixing ourself and helping others. I find this website offensive. Like to see what you to for the Lord. How many lives you’re touching for Christ.

      1. Well, “Billy Graham,” the site wasn’t made according to your divine specifications. Is it “E” or “Me” or “Someone Else”?

        And I am soooo sure you rebuke the fundies for how they criticize others! Not.

        Welcome back, troll.

      2. If you find it offensive, go elsewhere! There are lots of places I find offensive so I don’t go there. You ask why we don’t fix ourselves and touch others for Christ? Well, I was “touched for christ” and I have spent most of my life trying to fix the damage that was done. So, ya know, go take the plank out of your own eye.

      3. Billy Graham, you are right. The church should spend time fixing itself and turning its focus to serving others. This site helps move those goals forward. Thanks for your words of encouragement and support!

        1. He is so one-sided and juvenile. These types almost always are.

          And defensive, too. Signs of a guilty conscience!

          The existence of this site somehow really bugs them. Is it that there actually exist people who have seen through the deceptions of the Perfect Unrivaled Kingdom and Empire (PUKE), rejecting their doctrines and practices? Is it outrage over the fact that others should see them as sinful? And Rightly So? Is it embarrassing to them for their faults to be exposed?

          Maybe, maybe we have caught the attention of some MoGs who can’t stand their actions being characterized in such a stark, accurate light.

          Really, the reasons for the detractors to spread their half-assed piety (which they never bother to obey themselves) are positively cheering.

      4. I always find it amazing that people who are easily offended don’t see the contradiction between telling somebody in one breath that people should stop being critical and worry about fixing themselves in one breath, and in the next find it permissible to tell others what to do and be critical.
        I also think that people critical of this website forget that we who comment here at not looking upon this from a place of “oh, I wouldn’t ever do that”. Often it’s wry amusement because we once DID DO THAT. It’s funny because it used to be us and we can now see how silly it all was. And how sad it is for those who still think it’s normal.

      5. I wonder if the person who posted here as Billy Graham knows that in most of the churches we discuss here on SFL Billy Graham was viewed as a compromiser at best and a worldly backslider or false prophet at worst.

        There were some church members who loved and respected Billy Graham, but they were often the Sunday morning only folks. The more “discerning” had serious reservations about Graham. And some preachers went beyond reservations and actually preached against him.

  1. I dare to say first? (probably not).

    I think they are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they don’t realize that “blackface” has been considered offensive for more than 50 years (?). It’s so sad….

    1. Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking.

      Or there so recalcitrant in their separation that they are aware that other people think it’s wrong now, but they are adamant in holding to the old paths and saying that there’s nothing wrong with continuing to do this. (of course, that doesn’t apply with things like playing basketball in your driveway on a Sunday afternoon. You have to give that up so your neighbors won’t think you’re taking the Lord’s Day lightly. But for them to stop doing skits like this? Why should they have to stop? That’s the thinking of some people in the IFB. )

    2. Yeah. Blackface was already kind of uncool when Al Jolson did it in the 1920s. But basically everybody outside of the Klan, the Aryan Nations, and the IFB has been over it since 1960 or so.

    3. Al Jolson’s black face performances must be looked at from an early 20th century perspective. I believe we look at his performances with angst because we don’t know much of anything about the man, his heritage, or the time in which he lived.

      From my understanding, he was sympathetic with the plight of the African-American as he related it to his own jewish heritage vs White Supremacy.

      With that being said, in our day there is very little justification in bringing out the black face in light of everything that has happened in the last seventy years, regardless of the context. It defies logic and demonstrates a prevailing arrogance within fundamentalism that still wants to hold onto “The Olde Paths.”

      That’s just my opinion.

      B.R.1

  2. I’m guessing they had a college ball game; promotion was “black out” night. Promoting a theme color is traditional in almost all athletic circles.

    Reggie Williams (pictured above) is the dean of something? and is probably responsible for student promotions.

    Unfortunately they didn’t take into consideration the assumptions that could be made of this photo out of its context.

    Just my guess…..

        1. I’m curious if you were present in chapel when Blehm was PUBLICLY called out for not checking rooms… Sigh, that was a glorious moment – not gonna lie

        2. Yeeessssss that was epic. Serves the pompous, stuck up slobs that were in Lawrence, and Darth Blehm too.

        3. I went to Heartland with Blehm. Was he a major stickler or something? Seemed like a pretty straight-laced guy when I knew him. Haven’t heard from him in years,

    1. I think this is the most likely explanation.

      It’s also possible that there was some sort of athletic outing and these guys painted their face and thought it’d be funny to have their picture taken next to the black guy, with the black guy being naive and not realizing it was a joke.

      Meh…

      1. No black person is going to unaware of the implications of white fratboys parading around in blackface. But if he’s one of the few black faculty members at a white-dominated institution, he’s going to be resigned to putting up with a lot of loathsome sh*t.

        1. They aren’t frat boys. He’s the Dean of Students. If there was a more or less legitimate reason for the face paint, he might have thought it an innocent thing to do. Maybe.

        2. I know fratboys when I see them. Whether or not they belong to a named fraternity is a mere external.

      2. “with the black guy being naive and not realizing it was a joke.”

        I think that comment is the most racially offensive thing I’ve seen here. “Poor black man doesn’t know what a fool they’re making of him. Nobody should acknowledge a black person’s skin tone. Anything that makes people different is offensive.”
        Or maybe these are just people living in an environment where things like different skin colors are simple matters of fact and not things to be ignored or spoken of in hushed tones. The fact of the matter is, the man in the middle has very dark skin, and the other guys don’t. That’s the extent of the offensive nature of this picture. Not everything is racial.

        1. Not everything should be racial. But a lot more is racial about fundamentalism than is admitted.

          I think the gentleman in the picture know the racist nature of the joke. I would be certain of it. I can also see why he might not complain about it or tell his employer that such foolish jesting was out of place. Being without an income is quite debilitating, you know.

          So he might allow the white guys in blackface to think he didn’t get the joke. White guys love to think they are putting something over on the black guy. I haven’t seen racism that overtly in girls, but then I haven’t been looking to see it.

      1. my university played a game called ‘assassins’. it was a campus wide game that is sponsored by the student government and university administration. the winners get some prizes. some people would play at night, dressing up in all black and painting their faces black to sneak around more efficiently.

        1. OK, that’s not especially racist– just pointless.
          I’m just curious– was this one of those campuses that encourages the students to carry loaded firearms?

  3. Right, I might be able to clear some of that up, just not the naive idiocy of the picture itself.

    Sometimes WCBC would have basketball games with either a “whiteout” or a “blackout” theme for the fans. Everyone was supposed to wear all white or black. This looks like it was taken at a blackout game. In the center looks to be Reggie Williams, one of the teachers at the college.

    The funny thing is, I don’t think these guys even get the “blackface” connotation. I could be wrong, but when I was there, there were soooo many people that were just…ignorant to a lot of things. They might have just thought “hurr durr, this is funny cuz Bro. Williams doesn’t need paint!”

    1. Racism is alive and well at WCBC. Three of my sisters have now attended there. Let’s catalog the bits and pieces of racism that I am personally aware of:

      (1) Interracial dating occurs (they are totes kewl with it, unlike Bob Jones, because this is, like, California!) but is actively discouraged by administration behind the scenes. Black/White is utterly verboten. Asian/White is okay, particularly if missionary ambitions (keep it clean, guys) are in the offing. Hispanic/White is NOT preferred.

      (2) The first of my sisters (we’re white, btw) was specifically ordered by “Dr.” Rasmusson to break up with her Hispanic boyfriend in order to obtain a job on campus. (The guy later dropped out because he couldn’t afford his tuition and she was told, “see, Hispanics are lazy and are not good providers.”)

      (3) The same sister later married another “ethnic” guy and they were both invited to no longer work at WCBC immediately after their engagement. Of course, no overt mention of race was made, but there was no other reason. The “we don’t like to employ newly married couples” was obviously bs.

      (4) My second sister dated an Asian guy for a while until his parents (white dad, Asian mother) ordered him to break up with her because she was not Asian and would therefore “hinder his ministry.” (Unlike his interracially married parents, I guess??) The college was 100% supportive of this decision.

      (5) The disturbing thread that ties all of this together is that it’s apparently acceptable for white men to marry Asian/Hispanic/etc. women, but not the other way around. Gotta keep those white girls set aside for white husbands after all!

      (6) The fact that the best justification that can be provided for this photo is that they were just too “naïve” to grasp why it might have looked bad is precisely the problem. Fundamentalists, like many conservatives, have become masters at getting away with repulsive ideologies (such as racism) by dint of pretending that such ideologies just don’t exist and/or they are unaware of them. Bullshit.

        1. You have proof of this? You have proof that Deacon’s Son is lying?

          I happen to believe him. I saw altogether too much racism in my IFB University and in the fundamentalist churches I attended.

        1. Okay, fine. Apparently you all are in love with one another and I have stepped out of line.
          So… let me rephrase. “I don’t believe you. The reason is that your stories have stacked up very high. And based on what I’ve read of you, you don’t seem all that old. Therefore, unless you are bending the truth, I don’t find this continual story telling to be probable.”
          Sorry if I’ve offended Your Highness.
          Now you may resume with your attack on the evil doubter.

        2. Mr Blake, just how old is old? How old does he have to be to have that many sisters of married/college age? Also, unless you have absolute proof that what he said is a lie, should you accuse him of lying? You don’t have to believe him but without proof it’s hardly very Christian of you to accuse him. Even if you aren’t of that religion it’s still not nice to accuse without proof.

      1. I know of racism at LBC/WCBC involving an African-American male having his dating choices very strictly limited due to race.

        What is bizarre is that the son of a deacon (of Hispanic heritage) dated and married a white WCBC grad , and is now LBC’s Spanish pastor.

        This would predate DeaconSon’s sisters’ experience. LBC/WCBC seems to be catering to their racist clientele too, which might explain the different stories coming out of that place.

        I find it very disturbing that their new dean of men is helping them enforce racist policies. Does he personally counsel African Americans not to date outside their race?

        1. There appears to be a few blacks who have found their acceptance in white society by condoning, excusing, and justifying racist behavior. They turn out to be the most radical of conservatives and frequently froth at the mouth in their hatred of who they are.

          Allen West of Florida, Clarence Thomas and others seem to think salvation is of the white man, and there they go.

          It is a strange effect of making the gospel a cultural product instead of a gift from God.

        2. Speaking of such people, the funniest thing by far in the movie “Borat” (a rather unevenly funny movie) was the cameo by Alan Keyes. He didn’t say anything especially hilarious, but just his presence in the movie still makes me crack up when I think of it.

        1. I have never understood the White Supremacist obsession with “THEY’re after our White Women!”

          It sounds nothing so much as an animal breeder who freaks out at anything like uncontrolled matings contaminating his purebred breeding program. (I’ve heard stories of breeders who literally put down their “contaminated” stock when that happens.)

      2. Strange…considering I have many friends that graduated from WCBC that married inter-racially…including the “verboten” black and white…

        I wonder if any of the highly offended people in these comments are even black? Or if they’re just pompous white people or even hispanic people that think “feeling outraged” at the injustice is the same as experiencing it?

        I get the hatred for “fundies” but some of you are just as out of touch with reality as these “fundies” your attacking…your hatred has blinded you to the inconsistencies in your thinking.

        1. I think you are forgetting that just because your friends might not have had problems, that does not mean *no one* has ever had problems with racism at WCBC. You can deny that racism is institutional there, but you cannot deny that favoritism is a problem on that campus.

          I’ve seen dozens of examples of that during my tenure there. If you had a prominent last name, if your parents were students of the faculty, if you were a pastors kid or a missionary kid, you could just about get away with murder. So maybe your friends had the right connections while others weren’t so lucky?

          And there’s another problem you’re forgetting. Some of the kids that go there are woefully ignorant and naive. That ignorance produces some pretty cringey results, like the picture above. We as Christians are commanded to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

        2. WCBC Alum: I am not “offended.” I simply believe that the fundamentalist church should get out of the business of racism. I didn’t say that there are no interracial relationships at WCBC. In fact, I said that they are winked at as “evidence” of how cool and up-to-date WCBC is, unlike that horrible Bob Jones with its outright ban. But behind the scenes, such relationships are reviled – as my sisters learned.

        3. WCBC Alum – I don’t think any of us are offended. We are just making fun of something stupid. You on the other hand.
          I think you should make friends with Billy Graham up above.

        1. I take it they don’t teach logic at WCBC, Zag?
          Otherwise you would know why your anecdote disproves absolutely nothing that anyone else has said here.

      3. I’m calling you out on this. Three of my kids attended WCBC. We are light skinned white. My first one to attend was my daughter who met and dated a Hispanic from Texas and is now married to him. Number two was my son who did meet and marry a white girl. Number three was another daughter who met and married a black basketball player. When I talked to staff members to inquire about the two young men that my daughters would end up marrying they had only positive things to say about them both. You would think that at some point someone on staff would have asked me to discourage these relationships. But . . . that never happened.

        1. I am glad your experience was positive. Obviously, not everyone has shared that.

          And mixed-race pairing can occur in an atmosphere of racism. It depends in large measure on who you are. If they were to see you as a preacher-boy full of promise, it wouldn’t be allowed. If they saw the girl as belonging to a prominent family (say, donor class material!) it wouldn’t be tolerated.

          All things are not equal. Would you say that racism doesn’t exist in the U.S. anymore because we elected a black President?

          Obviously the person above has family that experienced racism at WCBC. I look at hijinks like this article portrays and can reasonably expect that there will be racism in the future because they don’t get it. Not yet.

          Fundamentalism holds racist beliefs, just like it holds sexist beliefs, anti-science attitudes and focuses on maintaining its control. There have been some changes, by force. The attitudes are not gone.

    2. ‘They might have just thought “hurr durr, this is funny cuz Bro. Williams doesn’t need paint!”’

      Hilarious. Next game, they’ll all wear black hats and fake noses and pretend to be Jews.

    3. this brings up an interesting thought for me.

      would ignorance of the connotation to blackface change the perception of the photo? if the people in the photo are, in fact, not at all racist and have no understanding of the meaning of blackface, how does that change the reception of the photo? are these kids still racist?

  4. Wow. Maybe these guys need to transfer to my beloved (snort) alma mater, the University of Oklahoma and join Sigma Alpha Epsilon. (I sit here at my office literally a five-minute drive from ground zero of the “n*gger” scandal. Shocked. Appalled. But appreciative that our president is actually handling this the right way for a change. At least for now while the cameras are rolling.)

  5. Guys… we’ve seen this before, they’re obviously just doing a skit to reach the lost!

    It’s not offensive cause Jeebusdid it so many years ago during his own children’s ministry.

        1. I hadn’t seen that in many years, and I had forgotten the rather dark, minor-key undertones of that song.

          Dick Van Dyke’s performance in the “Mary Poppins” movie is legendary in the UK for its bad version of a Cockney accent. In his defense, he has said the accent coach the filmmakers set him up with was (a) Irish, and (b) not good at his job.

          http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/oct/10/dick-van-dyke-brits-have-teased-me-for-50-years-about-mary-poppins-accent

        2. Reminds me of a “missionary story” I once heard (that may or may not be true) in which the missionary was trying to learn a remote tribal language and, as a joke, the native speakers volunteered a member of the community who had a speech impediment to teach the missionary. Much hilarity ensued.

        3. These things do happen. I had a missionary colleague who learned a bunch of Spanish swear words from a helpful local. She was embarrassed to no end!

        4. I laugh every time I remember a German immigrant walking in Sunday morning and apologizing for the smell of cow shit. He had helpful neighbours teaching him English.

        5. We had a foreign exchange student attend our church one year from China. She wanted to take an “English” name so she initially decided on “Coral.” Which would have been a lovely name except that some idiot in the foreign exchange program told her that “Coral” is not an English name, but “Carl” is. So, she showed up to our church introducing herself as “Carl Shao.” My mother was one of the first people to meet her and (in a rare display of kindness) pointed out the issue with that choice of name and she finally settled on “Carol,” which she still goes by to this day, almost 15 years later.

        6. BG, one of my favorite lines in the movie is the part where Dick van Dyke is a sidewalk chalk artist and he says, “Ello, aht loverrz!” (Hello art lovers)

        7. DS
          I believe the brunt of the joke of the language helper with a speech impediment was Otto Koning, among whose other stories include The Pineapple Story, popularized by our favorite PBPGINFWMY originator.

          Funny guy.

          You really do have to be careful out there. Current language acquisition theory postulates a loooonnngg period of listening without attempting to speak is much more beneficial than how previous generations were pushed to [mis] pronounce from day one–which would hopefully reveal that, “Hay, this guy talks funny.” We have rejected potential language helpers for the same reason.

        1. BG, I shall reach way back into my Fundy and insist you call them by their authorized name, “fruit walks.” And don’t try educating me with your liberal fish food agenda any more.
          😉

        2. Wow, we’ve digressed from chimney jokes to dead flies. You sure know how to put a “damper” on things. Baw-haw!

      1. A flea and a fly in a flue
        Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
        Said the fly: `Let us flee’
        Said the flea: `Let us fly!’
        So they flew through a flaw in the flue.

  6. I think a healthy dose of charity and a bit of humor would do all of us some good. I prefer to take 1 Corinthians 13 to heart and know that charity “Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.” I choose to believe the best about these two young kids until I am proven otherwise.

    All of us who have been wrongfully accused can certainly empathize.

    1. They’re being accused here of being clueless dimwits.
      Since the only alternative I can think of is that they are hate-spewing, overt racists, I believe “clueless dimwits” is the more charitable take on it.

        1. You can’t tell the difference between Chappelle and Blackface? Crawl right back under that rock.

        2. And Canada, and the UK.
          I don’t find any racism funny. There are lots of funny things but mocking someone for their colour, there’s that U again, their gender, whatever you mock for, does not amuse me. To address this seriously, making light of things that are borderline offensive perpetuates a culture of bias. I am not ok with that. A case in point, the joke about why women don’t need watches, because stoves have clocks. Superficially, it is clever maybe even funny but the culture behind it is anything but funny.

        3. “A man (or woman) convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still”

          Kudo’s to you for sticking to your guns; I hope you find a way to persuade others.

        4. Me, you do not seem to be comprehending what I am saying. I am not giving these two guys in particular a hard time. The culture behind them is what I am most concerned about. All these little things that they as white, male, relatively wealthy, entitled human beings, just get away with, bother me a lot. With privilege should come extreme responsibility. Where I see wrong, I call it. Persuasion is something fundies are obsessed with. I believe this way, it is right, you must agree, seems to be how they approach things. I used to be like that. Now, I bring attention to injustice. What you or those boys do with it is up to you. If it continues, I will also continue to bring attention to it. That is different than persuasion, it is a consequence of behaviour. If these boys are smart, they will pay attention to what is being said about this picture and examine their attitudes. When my kids were small, I had to correct behaviour that showed attitudes that were uncourteous. I didn’t enjoy it, nor did they but it was necessary. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.

        5. Fair enough. Thanks for the clarity. You did tell me to crawl back under a rock and all. ….

          But I did call your kid a name, and I still feel bad about that. …

          Maybe we’re even. ….

        6. Lol. I did tell you that. The thing is that there are many fundamentalists who do live under rocks, figuratively of course. They refuse to live in the world as it is. That is okay if they really do live outside all activities of their generation. For example, Old Order Mennonites, or the Amish, they do not tell the world what they think. They go about their business and ignore the rest of us. They are not going to be seen on Twitter being racist. When someone who is ignorant of current social contexts and mores puts himself into the public eye, there are bound to be problems. Do you see what I mean? The problem with a lot of fundies, and I speak from experience, is that they live up to their own standards, think they are being good and do not understand that the rest of the world has raised the standard. They aren’t always being deliberately obtuse but they refuse to live in this decade, century some of them, so they can’t relate to it. If we want to reach the world, we cannot dismiss it as irrelevant. It isn’t. It is full of people, good, bad and indifferent who are often doing a better job at living kind, helpful lives than the Under-the-rockites who judge them so harshly. Those people think differently than the people of my parents generation, they can’t be expected to react like them. I like you. I think you are honestly trying which is more than I can say for many in your position. The problem is, your position may be indefensible. I have been where you are. Pay attention to your instincts. I wish I had. It would have saved my family so much hurt. Don’t for the love of all that is good, let your children grow up entitled and insensitive. There is so much damage done by that kind of person. Just because a person doesn’t understand the damage they are doing, doesn’t mean it isn’t damage.

      1. It’s okay to use the -eth end of words when quoting the KJV. Now when someone tries to sound spiritual when talking or praying, that’s another thing entirely.

        1. I agree Beth D. My point is I find Me’s use of “charity” instead of “love” annoying because it indicates either ignorance of the archaic nature of much of the KJV’s language or simply unwillingness to use common everyday language like the rest of us do.

          Paul wasn’t writing flowery Shakespearean poetry. He was writing a letter. “Love always protects, trusts, hopes and perseveres.”. I don’t see what’s so hard about that.

          the Admiral

        2. I’ve always enjoyed the word charity because it implies the necessary action needed to express or love. The difference between sympathy and compassion.

    2. There is no excuse in 2015 for this kind of racist behavior. And to use that tired trope of “But they called themselves the n-word,” is to totally ignore the fact that people of color are taking back these words with negative connotations and using them in their community as a form of empowerment. If you can’t und that, then I can’t help you.

  7. Reggie Williams has an interesting sense of humor about his race. Someone correct me on this if I am wrong, but I was told by a friend who attended PCC that he once spoke in chapel there and riffed extensively on how his bald head looked like “a coconut” on the video projection. Apparently, the PCC brass were not amused by this little skit.

    1. Some bald guys love making fun of their own baldness. Just like some people with big ears or noses make fun of them – or I sometimes say I have built in flippers in the swimming pool because I’m only 5’6″ and wear a size 11 shoe. In one way, these things could be a detriment, but looking at it another way, it’s something that combines to make a person their unique self.
      BTW, I think a person saying their head looks like a coconut in a video shows a great sense of humor.

  8. I love your site Darrell but I wish people would stop acting like dressing up is evil. If you want to dress up like Gamora from Gaurdians of the Galaxy then you can paint your face green. (unless it’s already green of course) If you want to dress up like the aliens in Avatar then you can paint your face blue. (unless it’s already blue of course) If you want to dress up like The Falcon from Captain America then you can paint your face black. (unless it’s already black of course) If you want to dress up like Thor from The Avengers then you can paint your face white. (unless it’s already white of course)

    This whole thing that painting your face a certain color somehow means something else is ridiculous. It’s called dressing up.

    (I am not affiliated with WCBC and know nothing about the photo in the OP – I just see this kind of stuff blown up all the time)

    1. Nathan, that’s because blackface, in particular, has a long racist history. White male actors, singers, and dancers in blackface helped to stereotype black men as lazy, shiftless characters, beginning with the minstrel shows of the early 19th century. These performances were extremely popular, well into the 20th century. “Jump Jim Crow”, a popular song-and-dance routine first performed in blackface in 1828, persisted in the national awareness long enough to give its name to the “Jim Crow” laws of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the US, which enforced racial segregation. Blackface is not just about people dressing up; it’s racist. Google (or the search engine of your choice) for more history.

    2. You’re joking, right?

      You don’t know about blackface and its connotations? Really?

      It’s not nice. Use your favorite search engine to look it up.

      1. “Dress up”? Well then, I suppose the school would just love for them to go in drag. It’s just dress-up, after all.

        Which brings up the actual point of Christianity. That little matter of the heart, loving others and all that.

      1. I have a feeling IFBronies wouldn’t straddle the line between IFB and Brony for very long; IFB and Brony Friendship & Harmony wouldn’t mesh very well, and they’d go for one or the other. (Since they’re watching first season, and Rarity sashays her hips as she walks into the dragon’s lair in “Dragonshy” — just the way she moves her flanks causes a LOT of “I’m Not Supposed To Be Thinking/Feeling This! She’s a Horse!” reactions. Me? I don’t see a “horse”, I see an elegant Equinoid woman.)

        1. II Lady Semp, I really like the last two lines of that article (which are pretty much unquotable on a family blog).

        2. I somehow managed to miss those lines when I was perusing the page.

          Oops. My bad=your amusement.

  9. It was from a “black out” themed basketball game. I’m friends with the guy who posted this on facebook/instagram. His caption reads, “Had fun on my day off! Got to watch the Eagles play and the theme was blackout! #toofunny #wcbc #blackout”
    As someone who has first-hand experience…. I can affirm that if anyone is dense enough to not realize the racial connotations of this, it is Reggie.

    Regards,

    ExCoast

  10. Hyles thought enough of Bald Jones University to send representatives to every Bible Conference (at least until around 1990) to sell his books and various & sundry other accoutrements of religious ritual. I suppose that when money talks “That’s My Preacher” walks.

    B.R.1

    1. It has to be a really bad scandal to drown out the noise that money makes. Most fundy stereos can drown out anything they don’t like, however.

  11. This picture was posted onto social media after a Blackout game at the college. These students took a picture with their teacher, who happened to be black, and they posted a picture with their teacher. That’s it. They dressed in all black and, for school spirit, painted their faces as well. So whoever posted this story took a picture out of context. This is not racism. If this had been the opposite and a black guy painted his face white and took a picture with white people, nobody would call that racism.

    1. Okay, when you can find a picture of a black guy who painted his face white and took a picture with white people – in a context that had NO racial overtones, then you are welcome to share it with us.

      1. Amen, Deacon’s Son.

        Question: How many times now has someone responded to a post about Fundies in blackface (this is not the first or second such post) by “explaining” that white people in blackface is not really a racist trope?

        1. Post 1,000 pictures of fans dressed in white. It does not diminish the stupidity of posting pictures like the one above for the entire world to see.

    2. Is anyone here actually calling these boys racists? I see a lot of comments calling the practice of blackface racist, and rightly so. In fact, farther up-thread, there’s a pretty in depth explanation of *why* it’s racist, if you need to educate yourself. The point I and a few others are trying to get across, and the point you seem to be ignoring, is that these boys are woefully ignorant, and they posted a picture that without context, looks really REALLY bad.

      Fundamentalists really like to harp on “avoiding the appearance of evil” even though that verse has nothing to do with avoiding looking like you’re doing something wrong (if you took Greek with Bro. England, you should know why). Yet, this picture, posted to instagram, looks wrong. However innocent their intentions, they need to realize that publicly shared photos and posts are open to THE ENTIRE WORLD to see. Living in the internet age takes forethought and discernment.

    3. Second question: According to WCBC’s web site, the school colors are gold and burgundy. Leaving aside the aesthetic and symbolic questions raised by that color scheme, if painting themselves is a school spirit/sports thing, why don’t the students paint themselves gold and/or burgundy instead of black?

  12. So I came here and observed wild accusations being leveled from a single photo, absent context, condemnations for publishing something that appears evil, while deliberately publicising that same thing, and just for good measure, people being berated for their choice of bible translation. Sure you guys aren’t fundamentalists? I don’t endorse West Coast (the school or the region, I’m an east coast guy, haha), don’t approve of blackface, don’t see the purpose in a blackout event (then again, Im a nerd, I don’t get such things), don’t think posting pictures without thought is wise, and certainly don’t condone racism; but whatever improprieties are involved with 2 college kids dressed and painted black for a school event and posting a picture with a teacher who happens to be African American are dwarfed by the deliberate scorn I have seen here. If your going to disagree with fundamentalists, please don’t act like the worst of them in the process. Like one brother said remember charity. Oops, I mean love, sorry…I misplaced my ESV, forgive me this wrong.

    1. “and just for good measure, people being berated for their choice of bible translation.”

      Could you make your lies less transparent, please?

      No one here is berating anyone for choosing to use the KJV. What we are berating is their declaration that their choice is the only right choice for anyone, that all other versions are “perversions.”

      BIG difference.

      I use and quote from the KJV myself. Not exclusively, of course, but it is what I was drilled in when I was young. But I object to being called a heretic or an unbeliever because I use other versions.

      If you are to be credible (and believe me, you are not!), then you need to understand that the same kind of judgment you Fundies always sling around can and does and will come back at you.

      Get off your low horse and put on your big boy pants. “Gird up the loins of your mind” and stop whining. You fundies asked for this. You (as in fundamentalism) dished it out. And now that we are free of you we will dish it back.

      1. I share your absolute disgust for KJV only-ism: not only is it wrong, but it is historically absurd. That is one of the reasons I distance myself from West Coast. I was referring to someone who commented previously in this thread urging “charity” and was then berated for using archaic, KJV language. Its bad when pensecola does it, and its bad when posters do it. Just look back. I would also encourage you to refrain from questioning someone’s credibility so quickly. Get to know me and you will have far more reason to question it, haha.

        I will be the first to abhor the errors of fundamentalism, and Christianity as a whole for that matter. We have done (and still do) rotten, hate filled things in the name of truth, and Jesus hates it (and yes, I consistently tell them so). But you who are now free of fundamentalism should be the first to reject such methods. To fight hate with hate or evil with evil is not the way of Christ. You may in good conscience have a different theological perspective then me, and that is well, for we have one Judge, and to him we submit. But we are his servants, and must do right no matter what the others do. It is not right to sin because someone else “dished it out,” it does not please Him. And no matter what our cause, we must please him in all things.

        1. You’ll see a range of different responses reflected in the comments here. Some people still desire to follow Christ while others had given up on the faith. Other people are still believers but are at a point in their journey where they are angry at what was done to them in the name of God. Some have only newly left the IFB and this is their first time to ever be able to vocalize about the things that they saw but about which they never dared speak aloud so their reactions may seem more extreme.

          That’s why admonitions to the SFL readership in general about how we are supposed to respond don’t really make sense because we are all coming from different places (though we do have the bond of understanding and being part of the IFB in some way. )

        2. Thank you for your more nuanced reply than your first. I will apologize for getting a bit heated. Now, perhaps, we can act civilized?

          I do indeed hold a different theological perspective than you do. Actually, I hold a different one than I used to hold.

          But as far as being critical, it is imperative that fundamentalists do not escape the “fruit inspection” they so love to heap on others. It needs to be incisive and cut to the heart of the matter.

          As a former fundy, I committed grave sins against others “in thought word and deed” not only by what I did but also by what I did not do. I did not speak out about the abuse, the insensitivity, the ignorance on display, the power grabbing, the bullying. Sometimes I participated. Other times I just stood by and held the coats as it were.

          No more.

          I see that BJU’s official response to the GRACE report can be summed up as, “We’re good. We’ve always been good and right, but people haven’t felt it, so now we are going to implement ‘best practices’ so we will be ‘practically perfect in every way.’ Poppins, that is.”

          Fundamentalism has a sickening way of avoiding all responsibility and sluffing off all blame. Jesus did not allow the Pharisees to get away unscathed. Nor did the writers of Scripture allow the legalizes to be unchallenged. As a matter of fact, Paul went so far as invoke a curse on them. Frankly, so should we.

        3. I nominate pw to be our official responder to all trolls and “first time/long time” posters like Bill.

          pw – you have an amazing ability to respond with so much class and grace. It is so hard to keep calm when someone like Bill shows up and slams us with all of his clichés and catchphrases. He is like so many before him who choose to chastise us before understanding who we all are and where we have all come from and what we have all been through and still might be going through.

          Many of us have been coming here and actively posting for 3, 4, 5 and 6 years. We are a family. And like a family we all tend to protect each other. We stand up to
          the internet bullies and trolls. It is one of the reasons why I come to SFL everyday.

          What people like Bill have to realize is that coming on here and criticizing us for what we are saying, is the virtual equivalent of barging into someone’s house during Thanksgiving dinner and telling us that our theology is wrong, our spirit is wrong, the turkey is too dry and we are rooting for the wrong football team.

  13. I went to the cinema this evening to see the film “Selma” which is about martin Luther King. It is excellent, and I would highly recommend it. But I imagine the average white Fundy having an apoplectic fit if I mentioned it to them.

    1. Yes, the Selma film is going to make some folks very uncomfortable. I lived in Montgomery for about 11 years, visited Selma several times, and my wife worked for the state in an office building across the street from the state capitol, that you see in the final scenes.

  14. I’m literally blown away at the stupidity of you all. As an alumni of this college is a picture that you probably took from some kids Instagram because you have literally nothing better to do than sit at your computer creeping and being bitter. This was taken at a basketball game during a black out night. No one was being racist. As a mixed (black and white) person attending Wcbc I never felt discriminated against. Grow up. Get a life. Stop making everything about racism.

    1. What, if anything, do they “teach” at that “college”?
      Not freshman composition, I’m guessing.
      1. Alumni is a plural, not singular, noun. The singular is “alumnus” (masculine) or “alumna” (feminine).
      2. You misused “literally” twice in two consecutive sentences. That figuratively makes me want to gouge out my eyes.
      3. One is figuratively “blown away” by something, not at something (one is literally blown away by a bomb or a hurricane).
      4. Your second sentence has horribly fractured syntax and the first phrase (“As an alumni of this college”) has nothing to do with the rest of the sentence.
      5. “Black-out night” requires a hypen.
      6. How can you know that NO ONE was being racist? Did you interview every person there?
      7. Initials of an institution, e.g. “WCBC,” are written in all capital letters.
      8. Who’s making everything about racism? Not me. But if you think blackface performances are not profoundly racial in content, or that they haven’t been for most of the last two centuries, please look up “blackface” and “minstrel show” in a good dictionary or encyclopedia (not the ones from the dollar store that the WCBC library probably stocks).

      1. BG – Great critique but you missed one glaring contradiction. Our friend here claims to be an “alumni” of WCBC but he also states that he is attending WCBC.

        I think Annoyed should change his user name to Justmakingshitup.

        1. Scorpio, I interpreted Annoyed’s statement “As a mixed (black and white) person attending Wcbc I never felt discriminated against” as meaning the attendance was in the past (“felt” being past tense and all). But if not, you’re right.

      2. Also he/she used the plural “kids” when they should’ve used the possessive “kid’s”, but it was too difficult to understand what they meant, for me to read the whole comment. 🙂

        1. And if being technical, I think a kid is still a baby goat, but I suspect that ship has sailed, and definition has been expanded, but I don’t know for sure.

        2. Rob, I think the “kid” ship probably sailed somewhere around the time of Billy the Kid and the Sundance Kid.

  15. To pastor’s wife-
    I appreciate your perspective, and it stands true that, seeing the wide range of posters, extreme statements are to be expected. But that does not mean they are acceptable before God. If one does not claim to no him, then well, I have no admonition for you. But if one does know him, then set the example and respond as Christ would have, regardless of emotion. The very fact of the diversity of readership makes this even more imperative, for who will minister grace to the hurting soul if not you?

    To rtgmath-
    No worries, I was more sarcastic then I should have been myself. I have no specific loyalty or devotion to the fundamentalist movement, though I would still classify myself as such, despite the antics of many who bare that name. Yet I share your utter disgust at the pervasive avoidance of blame and absolute conviction that all is well. Every movement has its flaws and sins, but this attitude makes it horribly difficult to solve things, for how can we fix what we don’t acknowledge. I have, and will continue to stand against this horrible complacency, and the sin and hate that we sometimes spew. Believe me, I’m harder on my own kin…just ask them, haha.

    I appreciate your perspective. In many ways, we are agreed on the problems (though probably differ on the solutions). While I, from the inside condemn the pride and sin of my own group, I would also welcome those like you who see the same sins to do so as well. Only let us (and I do mean us, my admonition cuts to me as well) be careful that we do so with care, denouncing the right things in the right way. What you say about BJU is absolutely valid (I too was saddened by what I read). And the things I read in this thread about the inter racial dating policy at west coast is despicable, and worthy of condemnation. I had not heard that before, as, quite frankly, I’ve always given west coast a wide birth.

    I will join you in condemning these things, but let’s not rush to judgement on two boys who, it seems, were simply participating in a school spirit thing, with no thoughts of racism or hate. With everyone dressing in black, i doubt anyone even thought of “blackface.” I know its hard to respond with grace to ungracious people (remember where I live, haha), but we must, for we serve Christ. For in copying the judgemental methods of the worst of fundamentalists, we do no one any good, least of all those struggling with hurt. Frankly, I struggle to understand how the decision to post this, and the comments that follow pass the Col 1:10 test

    1. Bill, thank you for your response. But let me address this point: “but let’s not rush to judgement on two boys who, it seems, were simply participating in a school spirit thing, with no thoughts of racism or hate. With everyone dressing in black, i doubt anyone even thought of “blackface.””

      I don’t think the animus was against those two boys, but at the system which dulls the sensitivities and produces a cultural context where racism is not an extraordinary attitude, but so ubiquitous as to not be noticed.

      Yes, WCBC, BJU, PCC and a host of ‘lesser’ institutions are completely insular, the outside world having no influence on their attitudes and actions. That fun and games would produce such a picture which many would and have find racist is unsurprising–even with the participants having no awareness of racist motivations.

      Can one be racist and not know it? Absolutely. Can one do or support racist things without realizing their own racism? Yes. Without doubt.

      Did the boys know better? Maybe not. Maybe. But maybe not. Did they think it was acceptable? Absolutely in the school’s context. Would they have done that outside the school? Ahh. I perceive hesitation! They likely would not. That is why I am not completely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

      In any case, remember that Paul wrote of two young men in the church who were saying wrong things, “wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may learn not to blaspheme.” I would say a sharp rebuke is in order here.

      If we do not know or care how our actions may be interpreted, how we may offend, then we do violence to the gospel.

      And the picture which has no other context will have the context the viewer brings to it. You cannot lay the blame at the eyes of the viewer. The school must provide the context or else remove the offending object — if they care. I don’t think they do, or can.

      1. Hello again rtgmath. Yes, I have much to agree with you with regard to race issues in church. I went to a christian high school for a few years or so and we used the BJU cirriculum. I almost choked when we got to the history chapter where it was stated that slavery, while not a good thing, did more good then harm because it brought black people in contact with the gospel. And this was in Massachusetts. The most disturbing part was that most of my brethren disagreed with the statement, but shrugged it off as just a southern thing. Like you mentioned before, we dismiss our failures out of hand…sure alot easier then repenting. I’ve also bemoaned how 95% of our churches are middle class and white. Instead of trying to address that, we go on the defensive and insist “I’m not racist,” doing nothing to understand why we have no ministry to others outside our own group. Nothing changes because we can’t entertain the thought that we might be wrong. This is indeed a great evil.

        We may have to agree to disagree on some specific instances, and on specific tactics, like this very thread for example. But I do appreciate your obvious concern for God’s glory and christian faithfulness. It has been a pleasure (I can say the same to pastor’s wife)!

        Just a note to those who dislike my audacity in addressing excesses in communication: let me be clear that I’m not your enemy. As hard as it may be to believe, I posted because I was concerned for you. Legitimate grievances and understandable emotional baggage can cause us to speak in wrath in ways that displease God. I know, I’m a fundamentalist, speaking from the flesh is our wheelhouse, haha. You may not agree with me, you don’t have to. But know that I am not a troll or an enemy just because I don’t agree with you on some things. Whatever you think of me, I encourage all to simply ask whether Jesus himself would be pleased if I say ___. If so, follow your Lord and speak on. If not, for His sake, not mine, beware. I’m not saying this as one who has mastered this, and am certainly not implying that fundamentalists as a whole have (ha), but as one flawed servant to others, in Christ’s name, be careful.

        1. Bill, if you keep your attitude you won’t be a fundamentalist too much longer. The intellectual and moral dishonesty will eat at you until you have to leave.

  16. Perhaps we are looking at the white boy’s painted black faces along side the real black man’s face and coming to a rash judgment. Why don’t we get the perspective of those involved and make the appropriate judgment at that time.

    Someone get in touch with Reggie Williams and ask him directly.

    B.R.1

  17. Years ago I did my teaching practicum at Bob Jones Academy. I was teaching US History.

    You have to understand that I am not a Southerner. My dad was in the USAF, we lived in base housing. We moved to lots of areas. I was fundamentalist, but racist ideas had not seeped in very deep.

    So in the section on the Civil War, I mentioned the evils of slavery and was shocked by the direct, forward assertions by the students that slavery had been a good, humane thing and that we ought to have it today.

    Somehow I made it through the lesson. The teacher counseled me to “move on” to another section. I was advised at the end of the semester that high school was probably not the group I should teach because I was “too detail-oriented.”

    It was one of a series of prompts that pushed me to pursue mathematics further.

    But I tell this to point out that racism was very active and open in the past, and if it is less open now, I believe it to be every bit as active today among the young fundamentalists. “Accidental” racism may not be accidental at all.

    1. Wait, wait, wait, what……? rtgmath, surely you jest? You are seriously telling us that high school students in a Christian school in South Carolina in the 1980’s believed that there should still be slavery today? I’ve seen racism, and I’ve heard people try to defend the slavery of the 19th century, but I’ve never heard of anyone taking it that far. Was the point that unemployed poor blacks of today would be better off under that system?

      the Admiral

      1. Yes. Read “Talking Points Memo” and “Crooks and Liars” websites, and you will see daily evidences of racism.

        There are also hate groups, listed on the Southern Poverty Law Center website.

        When I lived in Alabama, there were certain high schools which had the charming custom of waving Confederate flags at athletic events, while the school administration did nothing to stop it.

      2. Not just the unemployed. Remember the bitterness over equal opportunity and the requirements for non-discrimination in employment. “They take our jobs!” They really hated Affirmative Action.

    2. I know people, in fact I am reluctantly related to them, who believe slavery would solve most of the problems of our modern world. Sick.
      An interesting aside, as a non-American, northerner, I was visiting in Virginia last year and mentioned a connection to John Brown to a staff member of the tourist info centre. I was surprised and shocked at the vitriol with which she responded. I guess history is subjective.

        1. I did send an email mentioning the incident after I got home and got a response from the same woman… Not very effective.

  18. This is another one of those posts that kind of leave me disappointed. You guys know I am frequently on board, so please don’t lump me with WCBC Alum and Zag and Billy Graham; that isn’t where I’m coming from.
    I think there is a little bit of difference between the Hyles gang putting on blackface in order to lampoon or promote negative stereotypes and some kids painting their faces and getting a picture with a favorite admin. All you have to do is google “blackout night” and you will find colleges of every size and stripe doing exactly the same thing.
    I hate overselling. Is WCBC racist? Probably. Is this an example of it? Probably not. So can we just stick to the actual outrageous behaviors that fundylife so amply provides?

    1. Let me re-state what Darrell said in the original post:

      “Whatever it is, it certainly doesn’t seem meet their own criteria for “appearance of evil.””

      It’s the hypocrisy of what they do and say that we are commenting on.

      1. Are you really putting me in a position to defend these people? Ugh. Ok, appearance of juvenile behavior, yes. Appearance of pitiable copycatting, yes. When the entire event is a common and thoroughly innocuous practice, appearance of evil, no. You cannot assume that all across the country the participants in blackout nights are all either racist or self-loathing or merely going along to get along.
        Besides that, the conversation today has not been whether or not blackout nights are or have the appearance of evil. The conversation has been how insensitive, ignorant, and backward this incident proves that they are. While I do believe the school is in fact insensitive, ignorant, and backward, this incident is not one of the proofs. That’s all I’m saying. Moving on now.

        1. Joshua – the appearance of evil argument is relevant because according to fundies one cannot go to the movie theater because it could appear they are going to see an R-rated movie; one cannot shop at a store that sells alcohol because it could appear they are buying alcohol; one cannot drink root beer out of a brown bottle because it might appear to be real “demon-brew” beer etc. etc. etc. So regardless of their intention (just like my intention would be to enjoy an ice cold bottle of IBC root beer) it appears wrong. That is all the fundies need to condemn someone. And therein lies the hypocrisy. We are condemned for going to the movie house but we are to ignore and not comment on the inappropriateness of the picture? This is SFL 101.

        2. Doing something that is “insensitive, ignorant, and backward” does prove insensitivity, ignorance, and backwardness. At least to me. The negative overtones of blackface are not news, or at least shouldn’t be, to anyone living in the internet age.

          I hope the people at WCBC now understand this. I wouldn’t bet on it though.

    2. OK, I Googled “Blackout Night” and got a bunch of photos of people drinking to excess, playing with glowsticks, and going without electricity for the evening. Of the various crowd shots that I saw under “imges”, there was nobody, NOBODY in blackface. Those WCBC students might not, in themselves, be racist, but they are terminally clueless. Posting such a photo has every appearance of racism, whether or not that was what they intended. They need to learn that, in the real world, any such activity will bring a very negative reaction, and they ought to learn why.

      1. If a Fundy “college” really cut all the lights and had a true black out, wouldn’t admin freak out over potential dating rule violations happening in the dark?
        I have a hard time believing they would adopt that kind of black out practice, but the blackface one seemed to be much more acceptable to them.

  19. Im Sorry but I try not to waste my time with bitter former students of fundamental schools, but why dont you research why this picture was taken instead of wasting your time on a blog all day. This picture was taken for an event called “the black out.” Its where everyone at the basketball game is in all black. The guys probably joke with Bro. Williams and said something stupid like we match and he probably laughed about it. And just becasue you google black out and there were people who were drinking, does that mean if i google birthday party and there are people drinking than that means everyone has it there? That stupid logic. I was there that night, alot of people painted there face and arms.

    Why dont you guys get a life and instead of complaining and ripping other schools apart for there stand or what they do (btw you didnt have to go there), and go do something for Christ with your life. I’ve wasted enough of my time on this pathetic site.

    1. This is just beautiful. It has to be a poe, right? This cannot be serious.

      If WCBCgrad is legitimate, doesn’t the grammar speak volumes on the level of education one receives there?

      1. I wish they’d come up with something better than “bitter”. I mean, how will I make fundy bingo if that’s all they say? I’ll tithe on my bingo winnings, peeps, so come up with something I can use!!

        Of course, I’ll buy me some Grey Goose with my winnings. Priorities, dude.

        1. Maybe we should help them out with words like: disillusioned, traumatized, aggrieved, offended, disturbed, betrayed, appalled, bemused, sickened…….all these are so much more appropriate than the tattered “bitter.”

      2. Either these pro-“blackout” posts are Poes, or WCBC is a refuge for the spelling-impaired and the grammar-disabled.

        As for “bitter,” I prefer the term “wised-up.”

    2. You’ve wasted enough time on a lot of things, my friend. Going to WCBC instead of getting an education is probably one of them.

      If you had read the blog (ahh, but you may be reading-challenged as well as writing-challenged, so we oughtn’t to expect too much!) you should have understood the objections. But fostering understanding may be a WCBC deficiency along with their other educational malaise.

      My son went to Northland International University from the Community College and found the teaching awful, the courses simplistic and the attitude much too self-congratulatory. What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? They didn’t know and they didn’t care.

      No wonder they are going defunct.

      And yes, you have spent too much time here. Go! Get a real education! Learn to communicate!

  20. Just a thought… How is it that in my education through the southern-published A Beka, I learned all about the Holocaust, and nothing about the lynchings and racism in our own country?

        1. I remember the shock when I learned that Indians learned to scalp from the settlers. It was a practice they hadn’t done until we did it to them and they decided to retaliate.

        2. Saw I great cartoon once of a well-dressed, (extremely) well-fed white American politician bellowing “Get rid of all those illegal immigrants! Send the all back home!” Beside him is a Native American (admittedly somewhat caricatured) who says “I’ll help you pack”

        3. Who started scalping is a matter of historical controversy. But it’s definitely true that both whites and natives did it.
          What amazes me is that there were some people (admittedly, not many) who actually survived having their scalps removed. I don’t know how, but there are written records of it.

        4. I read a fictional account of someone who survived scalping. I guess it’s possible, but without plastic surgery – wow!

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