Education (Where Moralism is King)

If you are an educator or have children in school it’s fascinating to watch this BJU clip and see them outright admit that they’re not nearly as interested in teaching children how to think about science and history as they are teaching them what to think about science and history.

126 thoughts on “Education (Where Moralism is King)”

  1. apathy–because you don’t have a proper love for God. It has nothing to do with the fact the fundamentalists have made faith about keeping a list of commandments and a cold list of dogma rather than a living vital experience with God wrestling with our faith.

  2. I wonder what BJU would have thought of the education that Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego received as exiles in Babylon. Not exactly their idea of a “Christian” Education….. Or even a Jewish one….

    1. Maybe Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego ( or should I use their Jewish names?) Should have refused to be part of that education system out of principle. They may have lost their lives by refusing but hey, at least they wouldnt have lost their Religious Principles which is much more important

      1. Isn’t that what happened to them, sort of? I can’t remember how that parable ended, did S, M & A come waltzing out of the furnace or not? yes I’ve backsliden.
        Nothing wrong with the Babylonian names, they are fun to sing, even if I can’t recall one note of that dumb song now, or anything more than “Shad-rach, Me-shach, and Ah-bed-neh-go!” 😀

        1. Shake-it, Make-it and Into-bed-u-go were thrown into the furnace because they refused to bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar’s ridiculous statue. God brought them through the furnace unharmed. They were devoted to God in spite of their Heathen Education… and God blessed them.

        2. Hey? I’m a person of color. I’m 1/4 American Indian, 1/8 English, 1/2 something I forget what it is as if it matters, and 1/8 Dutch. No kidding. I’m a mutt.
          I attend from time to time a predominantly Black church to see some dear old friends there. 15-20 years ago the pastor there (who is black and still serving there) was teaching a series of messages on Daniel. I’ll never forget when he said (and I know I’m probably not spelling things right here): “Shadrach, Meshach and a big negro”
          His illustration stuck with me and I never struggled remembering Daniel’s and his friends names since that day.

      2. These kids, from “The Preacher and the Bear”?

        Hey Lord! You delivered Daniel from the bottom of the lion’s den,
        Delivered Jonah from the belly of the whale, and then
        The Hebrew children from the fiery furnace–so the Good Book do declare!
        Hey lord! If you can’t help me, for goodness sake don’t help that bear!

  3. The reality is that most students above a certain level of intelligence will eventually reject this construct. When they do it often leads to one of two relatively negative outcomes.

    1. Internal moral collapse while maintaining the facade they have been taught is “godliness” – this results in the many moral scandals of fundamentalism

    2. Rejection of Christian thought completely as logically and rationally bankrupt. In reality this is not true, but when it is presented in the way of BJU, it appears intellectually neutered and incoherent.

    1. Good points. I must say that “Christian thought” really is not logical or rational. It is much more emotional, and in the case of fundamentalism that emotion is often fear.

      The problem is that “Christian thought” seems to see itself as being able to negate facts at will with no respect for the truth or the facts and with no fear of consequences, as if God Himself was changing what was to meet their interpretation. So yes, I reject it.

      This does not mean that I give God no place. But the fact is that the idea of God has been a constant source of confusion, and God has done nothing to clear up that confusion. So I may ask God for mercy and grace, but I will not tell others that my idea of God and His Works must be their idea of God and His Works.

      And if He IS, He will no doubt understand my reasons. He knows I am open to enlightenment, presented in a way I can understand. If He does not choose to do so, He becomes responsible for that.

      1. I’m in a similar situation now, except that I can’t believe anymore. I can no longer make sense of it, and I’ve tried to embrace the general statement of the Bible, but I can’t. Maybe the literalist idea that “if one thing is not true in the Bible then it’s all false” was pounded into my head so much when I grew up that I can’t get past it. Either way, I am absolutely open to there being a Creator, but I’m tired of playing detective. And the idea that our eternal destiny hinges on whether or not we catch his message at the right time in the right place seems frankly absurd. Why would a creator of a universe play such games? This feels more like we’re all pretending he’s around and church is where we get an infinite loop of affirmation. I remind myself of John 20:19 (Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.) but it now feels like someone put that verse in there to shut people like me up. Either way, I’m not looking to be blessed at this point. I’d be fine if I could just see him. Until then, I’m going to assume that this is all we have and that life after death will be just like it was before I was born. I could act like I believe *just in case* a la Pascal, but that’s disingenuous, and I’m pretty sure a god like the one I want to believe in would see through that.

        1. Dear Keep On, I’m with you. I’m trying to believe. I no longer argue with anyone over theology or philosophy. I just don’t know. Like you, I’m tired of playing detective. I am trying to treat my fellow man as I’d want to be treated. To be humble & loving & respectful to others. Then when I die, it’s up to Him, if He exists.

          Meanwhile, instead of theology or philosophy, I study how to fly fish. I read about how to make a perfect presentation when I cast, then I put on my chest waders, grab an old glass fly rod & vintage reel, and go out into an Alaskan lake and try to perfect my presentation of a fly to a fish. It’s usually not a perfect cast, but sometimes, just sometimes, it is.

        2. I remember when my knees buckled and I started hyperventilating. It had just occurred to me that there likely wasn’t an eternal life, and that I only had 3 or 4 decades left of existence. To realize your own conscious mortality (not just physical) is quite a humbling experience and I don’t blame anyone for refusing to explore the thought of it. But it’s also painful to see people “wait” their lives away, sitting on their asses criticizing others who are living with a sense of urgency and desire for purpose while they brag about all the things they’ll do in heaven, like a kid who’s just waiting to graduate from high school so that he can chill and do nothing for the rest of his life in his super rich dad’s giant loft in Manhattan. I want to grab them by their collars and yell that “this might be all you have! This might be all your family has! Cherish and enjoy it! Give them the best life you can possibly give!”. After my panic episode, there was a period of depression and mourning that lasted almost a year. But life now makes so much more sense, and ironically, my sense of respect and love for others has increased because their small blip of existence in this enormous universe is just as humbling as mine, and they are making of it what they can, and fly fishing in Alaska is probably on the top of the list for how to best spend your time being a conscious part of the universe!

        3. I understand. And if God is Just, then He shouldn’t blame you for it.

          In this day of globalization, where the uttermost parts of the earth are a fingertip away, it makes little sense to believe in a territorial god.

          I woke up this morning with a hymn of praise in my head, gotten from the Episcopal liturgy. It was just there.

          Perhaps I still have the Primitive in me more than you do?

          In any case, I agree with you. The admonition to just believe without evidence, and to believe against the evidence is foolish. We have seen this used against people time and again. It is a tactic of Kings and Generals and Dictators and Warmongers, leading people to all kinds of foolish acts. That God has refused to speak in a clear way so that all can hear in this day and age speaks against Him. That the most ardent of His supporters exhibit such bad behavior also speaks against Him.

          What good is Salvation if it does not save people from their “sins” in the here and now?

          I have to ask if I am a “Christian Atheist.” I cannot unbelieve all the way, but I have shed a lot of the “doctrines” I learned in fundamentalism. Most particularly, I have learned to apply their teachings against themselves. That speaks to how corrupt they are!

          But I find a lot in Scripture that is sensible, kind, loving and good. I won’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.

          Still, I can see how people can lose energy and will in this fight.

          I am seriously working on my book. You can bet that SFL will be featured in it!

        4. Oh, do I understand! I had that moment of shaking terror at the idea of non-existence some years ago. I can’t say that I’ve gotten over it entirely, but I’ve sort of come to terms with the idea. I hope there’s an afterlife, but I’m trying to live this one as well as I can.

          I consider myself an agnostic, strongly influenced by Ancient Egyptian thought–particularly the idea of Ma’at. It’s a word that combines justice, honesty, truth, and the balance of the universe, and ought to be upheld in daily life. There are the Negative Confessions–rather like the Ten Commandments on steroids, and all about living in community without doing harm to your neighbors–which are to be recited to various gods while your heart is weighed against a feather representing Ma’at after your death. I don’t really believe in the gods, or in the actual heart weighing, but I do try to live as though that might actually happen. At any rate, I’m trying to do more good than harm in life, while hoping that there is something after death and that He/She/It/They who run the universe (if they exist) look kindly on human beings.

          Also, Bald Jones grad, I appreciate your fly fishing as an alternative to philosophy. I make quilts.

        5. rtg et.al.
          I think what has helped me the most in my adult wrestling is realizing that the Bible is a collection of writings by people who were working out their faith and (literally sometimes) wrestling with God. I really don’t think the Bible was ever intended to be a perfect representation of perfect morality or anything even close. It is a story. It is my story. And so when I read some of the more ethically challenging (by which I mean horrendous) portions of the OT, for example, I understand that these were bronze-age tribes struggling with what to do with God in the middle of the only life and world they knew. And to me this ongoing conversation is sort of the definition of faith.

        6. @rtgmath
          I identify as a nontheistic Baptist for precisely the reasons you describe. Even if I no longer recognize the Bible as a completely supernatural and otherworldly book, there’s still too much good there to throw it away. It’s still too culturally engrained in me to be completely let go.
          On the other hand, I enjoy life so much more now that I’m not worried about “getting other people saved”. It’s nice to read thoughts similar to my own so well-articulated. Thanks to all in this sub-thread.

  4. “When and what they did is important, but why they did it, and how God used it is not only more fascinating, but ultimately far more important.”

    This illustrates the thinking that has allowed BJU writers and other fundamentalists to “rewrite” history, to twist it to their meaning, to conjure up “quotes” that do not exist, and to create intentions that never existed.

    Why do fundies insist that the Founding Fathers did not intend there to be a “wall of separation” between church and state? Because they cannot conceive that God would allow such a thing. The FF must have been “Christian” like they are to have built such a nation. And God must have been at work to do something they could not envision man having the ability to do.

    In short, they take the primitive idea of “history” that the ancients took. Facts are not as important as the hidden meanings and moralizations. The writers of Scripture interpreted the “facts” as God being at work. Somehow God must have done this, or God directed that something else be done. There is no such thing as individual will or intent. You can alter the facts to teach a moral lesson that will be beneficial.

    That is the way history was handed down through generations. Many historians indulged in the practice, some more than others! It has taken a long time for the historical method to be developed enough to be objective, fact-based and event-driven, with the scientific viewpoint that for every event there must have been a preceding set of events and motivations — cause and effect!

    Fundamentalists want to overturn this view of history and return to the “scriptural” viewpoint, that God is in control of events and that His Hand directs the Script.

    1. Spot on.
      Even now, with peer review and accountability in place, it can get complicated. Mostly because misinformation is just as accessible as information. People still have to choose between John Keegan and Bill O’Reilly and chose wisely. Whereas before, you would have a bunch of Bill O’Reillys writting history.

      1. Yes, whether it be quack Science or revisionist History, there are websites made by proponents in an attempt to support their views, and provide citations for their papers/books.

        The blind are clearly leading the blind.

    1. That’s painful (the “electricity is a mystery” one). I guess I should expect such from people that have such gleeful embrace of denying access to knowledge.

      1. In reality, the idea of denying access to knowledge is intrinsic to Christian and Jewish thought. Since Islam is an outgrowth of (or direct competitor with) these two religions, it also stresses the denial of knowledge.

        And denial of knowledge has been built into our cultural psyche. Think of all the things you are not allowed to know and the reasons why. Knowledge is power, and power liberates the individual from the control of his or her would-be masters. It equalizes the footings.

        From the Garden of Eden, knowledge has been the forbidden fruit. The religion desires wonder and awe instead of knowledge and understanding. Even though Proverbs exalts wisdom, it is a minority voice in the Scripture. God makes Himself unknowable, withholds the truth from Job, deceives Joab, intentionally keeps people from knowing the truth and getting saved (II Thes. 2). Religious concepts are expressed as mysteries to be accepted without understanding.

        Sex is an enforced mystery. For some reason, fundamentalists and conservatives think it better that people be sexually ignorant. The laws are constructed in such a way that exposing children to sexual ideas is criminalized. Our reactions in favor to this criminalization reveal our agreement with enforced ignorance.

        Also in the area of fundamental rights, conservatives prefer their victims (the general populace) to be unaware of the law, their rights, and the pervasive theft of their rights foisted on them by police, government, and big business. They write the rules in favor of themselves to deny rights to others.

        This is a huge problem. But allowing knowledge to be open would require that people not be out to take advantage of others secretly. In other words, Honesty is only for the common people, the suckers, the sheep to be shorn. Deception is allowed by the leaders for the good of the people (in other words, the good of the leaders!).

        No wonder the world is so messed up.

    2. If you have a spectrum with science on one side and voodoo on the other, really this article is a millimeter from voodoo. Really.

      1. No, no, no. You have it all wrong. You know gosh darn well that the metric system isn’t biblical. Does it say “walk with him one kilometer”? No! It says mile, not kilometer. Proof positive that the metric system is from the pit of hell.

        1. You said Gosh! Shame, shame, shame! (doing the crossed index fingers thing) And every good Fundy knows that’s a corruption of gid’s name or something like that!Anyway that’s what I learned back in Fundystan! 😛
          Oops 😳 I said it too, so you’d better shame me now.

        2. Yeah, because only two things are really bad in Fundystan — cussing and … um, help me here … I know there’s something else but the margarita isn’t helping …

        3. I remember a reprint of the original Victorian-era book on Prophecies of the Great Pyramid — the one that predicted the future by measuring the internal galleries of the pyramid in “pyramid inches”.

          The last chapter was one long rant on the Satanic Metric System and the Satanic French Revolution rebelling against their God-ordained King and how democracy was Satanic Rebellion against God’s Monarchy by Divine Right.

          I think the original book was English, and the Metric System took a while to live down its origins in the FRENCH Revolution.

        4. @Headless Unicorn Guy: I heard of that too, is that where that idiot von Daniken got the idea of the “pyramid inch”?
          I think the book predicted the world was supposed to end in 1953, looks like God wasn’t paying attention that day.

        5. Yea, Lady Semp, cussing and, you know, that other pesky little indulgence.

          Shoot.

          Just one more double Breckenridge bourbon on the rocks and it should come to me.

          This should be one of those butt cushion prize packages for the winner of, “Who can name the second really bad thing in fundystan.”

          Hellivision?

          No.

          Shorts on wimmins?

          Close.

          Calling the Mog by his first name?!

          Closer.

    3. The kindest spin I can put on that paragraph is that it’s about 200 years out of date. Certainly physicists and even apprentice electricians know exactly where electricity comes from and what it is. It’s only a mystery to people who have never bothered to open a book on electricity for beginners.

      It reminds me of that famous video clip (linked to before on this site), where Bill O’Reilly says that know one knows why the tide comes in and goes out. Bill, the fact that you don’t know something doesn’t mean that most fifth graders don’t know it. You could know it, too, if you ever bothered to open an encyclopedia to the entry on “Tides.”

      1. If you believe no one has ever felt electricity, wet two fingers and then put them both at the same time into the two holes of an electric outlet (or the top two holes if it’s a three-hole outlet).
        Now you know what electricity feels like.

      2. If you believe no one has ever felt electricity, wet two fingers and then put them both at the same time into the two holes of an electric outlet (or the top two holes if it’s a three-hole outlet).
        If you survived, you now know what electricity feels like.

        1. It’s the Russians. Or you’re not right with gid. Or you are so right with gid that you’re being persecuted.

        2. Put the business end of a nine-volt battery against your tongue. it’s a good lesson on what electricity is like.

        1. Q: How do sailors get their laundry done?
          A: They throw them overboard and they are washed ashore.

  5. I still say the best example BJU education is somebody who has received nothing but BJU education his whole life.

    Enter Bob Jones III….. 🙂

        1. Sung to the tune of the Doxology:

          Praise Bob to whom tuition flows.
          Praise him ye prisonrs at Bob Jones.

          Praise him above all the faculty.
          Praise Doctor Bobs One, Two, and Three.

          Ahhhh-Bobbbbbb

        2. In my stupid Fundy years I got dragged along to “special” meetings. I met both Bawb Sr. and Bawb Jr. I asked Bawb Jr. To sign a Bible I had.
          Looking back I can recall lots of statements that aren’t worth my time repeating, but one stands out to me. Bawb Sr. spoke and said before he started: “My wife told me that if I were to speak, not to say anything about the President, US President that is.”
          Wow!!! Talk about a sense of self-importance. Now that I think of it I didn’t remember seeing the media outside the building waiting to get video of Bawb.
          No media but lots of FFM (Future Funny Mentalists) 🙂 🙂 🙂

  6. This why they hate Common Core. There are parts of CC that drive me nuts, but they are teaching kids to think. It’s not, what’s the answer but how odd you get that answer.

    Was told , by a fundy, that I was going to Hell because I’m a theistic evolutionist. He wanted to know how o could believe that Jesus evolved from a monkey. I said he didn’t, Jesus was present at creation. I’m still going to hell.

    1. I realize that’s a typo, but “how odd you get the answer” is truth. I’ve seen Common Core math — they eventually get you to the answer of 12+36, but they do it in the oddest way.

      1. There is method to the madness. Pedagogically it makes sense, and I taught these methods 24 years ago when I taught Mathematics For Elementary School Teachers.

        The point is for the student to learn place value, which our number system is based on. Without that you don’t know what a number means.

        1. I agree that place value is inherent to understanding what a number is, but learning arithmetic facts has been devalued. From what I can see no one is really required to memorize anything, whether it’s math facts or the Gettysburg Address.

        2. I can’t stress the importance of memorization for cognitive development. Let me tell you, my grandfather designed the helicopter and put men in space with a slide rule. To this day he can calculate his grocery bill with tax before the register. HOWEVER. We are rapidly moving into a space where knowledge is commodified. The advent of the internet and smartphone apps means that knowing how to get the right information quickly is more important than being a savant. NPV of an annuity? There’s an app for that. Area of a thee-dimensional object? App for that too. How to cook crystal meth in your basement? Hello, google! So in a lot of ways I think CC is preparing students for a brave new world where brains are used to think and machines are used to store facts and work calculations.

        3. I completely agree with you. I have long argued that you must not neglect memorization while presenting conceptual information. They are complementary.

          I, too, find the idea that it is not considered vital to *know* information. Somehow the idea is being promoted that all you need to know is how to look up information.

          But I do not think the Common Core is actually promoting these ideas. From what I have seen in the math section, knowing how to create formulas is important. Understanding the components of formulas, not just being able to spout the formula, is important. And being able to transform formulas into other forms, solving for different variables, is important.

          The problem I see is similar to the problem schools had years ago with the “New Math.” The New Math was brilliantly put together. Its execution was terribly done. Educators in the Elementary Schools have traditionally been the worst-scoring group in mathematics of all professional groups. Teacher’s colleges tended to teach antiquated methodologies. Teachers were simply unprepared, mathematically and pedagogically to handle the new curriculum. But where it was handled well, it was a success.

          Unfortunately the “No Child Left Behind” legislation was both poorly crafted and executed almost everywhere. Testing services lobbied for provisions that would bloat their businesses, and they pushed bad educational theory and practice on teachers.

          The Common Core, at least in Mathematics, is actually a wonderful goal. It has been corrupted by such companies as Educational Testing Services as another way to test, test, test without giving time for the hands-on learning needed. By pushing punitive testing it carries the seeds of its own destruction.

          The push you see in looking up information, making information handling instead of knowledge-building the goal, reminds me of a science-fiction story I read years ago. In the far future, people had to go to the computer for every question. When a computer operator discovered that the answer to 3+4 was always 7, he began to learn arithmetic. Unfortunately, by that time actually having knowledge was forbidden, since that was the province of the “gods,” and he was burned at the stake.

          In other words, every attempt to better education has been frustrated by people with Fundamentalist attitudes and ideas. They have ruined schools by infiltrating them, rising to management, and frustrating any attempt to get students to think for themselves.

    1. I bet you anything those kids went home and listened to Hootie and The Blowfish and Matchbox Twenty (it was 1998 afterall).

      Also, A Beka has better curriculum than Bob Jones but that’s just my opinion.

      1. I know someone who used the BJU sat homeschool program for her kids and she thought it was hokey and stupid. I think it was the puppet shows that did it for her.

        I saw a few of their textbooks long ago but didn’t pay them too much attention. They looked okay in terms of graphic design and cover/binding; the content looked similar to Beka’s. (Ugly books cheaply made aren’t going to win me over.) I never used or bought any BJU stuff because I was separating from them over their association with Ian Paisley. Now that’s the least of the issues I dislike about Jones & Company.

  7. Except their aren’t “biblical answers” to every day problems (side note: good freaking luck trying to define “biblical”). The specific gravity of lead? No biblical answer (11.35 in case you were interested). Plank’s constant? No biblical answer. How to build a kite? NO BIBLICAL ANSWER! The entire approach is bafflingly mediocre. It’s as if they assume no one with more than two brain cells to rub together for friction will ever view their materials.

    1. You should check out the latest post at The Wartburg Watch (besides their e-church post). They’re talking about the very same thing from a physics POV. The Bible is not a science text!

      1. ” The Bible is not a science text!”

        The church’s use of the Bible as a science text is why Bruno was burned at the stake and Copernicus was called a heretic, being persecuted over their heliocentric beliefs. The church was unwilling to let go of their “Bible-based” geocentrism.

  8. Obviously, these clowns don’t know the difference between education and indoctrination, between teaching and drilling, or between learning and memorizing.

    If you want to let them write your curricula and your textbooks, it’s your loss, but it’s also the whole society’s, because undereducated and miseducated people make inferior citizens.

    1. When the teacher asked the class if cloning was okay, the kid gave a very rote answer and there was no follow up indicated.

      The student (Jeff) answered, “No, cloning is not the way God designed for…for people to reproduce”. (1:18)

      Viewpoints on cloning aside, I would never accept that as an adequate answer, and would pepper the student with questions so he could explore and defend his position greater.

      Flying in airplanes is not the way God designed for humans to travel.

      Respirators are not the way God designed for humans to breathe.

      Do they really think Jeff answered the question acceptably? This explains why they fear getting their faith challenged at Satan U 😉 . They are not really prepared for honest discussions and debate. They feel safe in their bubble where their views are rarely challenged.

      1. How do you know cloning is not the way God designed for humans to reproduce? What if it just took until the late 20th century for humans to learn the method God wants us to use?

        Cloning is absolutely not mentioned in the Bible, so you won’t find the answer there.

        1. Cloning is ungodly because it gives rise to questions like this: If I kill my clone is that suicide or murder?
          If I have a vanilla ice cream and you get a vanilla ice cream, is that an ice cream clone?
          Is Bozo’s identical twin brother Bozo the Clone?
          😛 (runs and hides)

      2. Isn’t it wonderful the way their arguments turn against them with just the easiest flip? They are, in their very essence, anti-knowledge.

        If they had their way, our civilization would regress to the era of Christ. Chariots, horses, walking, agrarian culture, and illiteracy. Or perhaps to the era of the dark ages, where the serfs were owned by the land, and Nobles ruled with the blessing of the Church. And, of course, no one had the ability to challenge what the leaders of the church did or said.

        I am sure you can think of a few statements by fundy leaders that would fit right into this kind of politico-social framework.

        Not, of course, that current fundamentalist leaders would admit to the ultimate goal. But when “Christian Education” has as its goals to produce a mindset of faith against the facts, to oppose science, to confound the ability of individuals to think for themselves the Dark Ages are the natural end.

        1. Of course we can probably guess who most of those nobles would be *cough*bobjones**cough*jackschaap*coughcough* need I say more?

  9. Not a person of color in the entire video. I guess their market is exclusively white folks.

    This video is from 1998. Have they changed anything since then?

    1. “Way down Carolina way
      (Way down Carolina way)
      There’s a preacher called Bee Jay
      (There’s a preacher called Bee Jay)
      Bee Jay got hisself a school
      (Bee Jay got hisself a school)
      Founded on Caucasian Rule!
      (Founded on Caucasian Rule!)
      Bumper sticker on his Ford
      (Bumper sticker on his Ford)
      ‘Honkies if you love The LOORD!'”
      — Steve Taylor, “We Don’t Need No Color Code”

      1. Pastor Bob, why you punish me?
        Like a wave crashing into the shore
        You destoryed my dreams
        Pastor Bob, why you walk away
        Like a friend being expelled for nothing wrong
        You left me crying
        Can you teach me about tomorrow
        And all the pain and sorrow
        Running free?
        ‘Cause tomorrow’s just another day at school
        And I don’t believe in Bob Jones

  10. I like the stategically placed pictures of Asian students. Proves how diverse they are! It reminds me of Christian schools putting pictures of kids on marketing materials. They almost always have a white boy, a white girl and one or two kids of other ethnicities. It makes it look like 30-50% of their student body is made up of minorities. In reality, the one or two minority kids probably get trotted out every time the school needs to show how open and diverse they are.

  11. I am an educator, with 30+ years experience. One of the reasons I have never taught in a Christian school is because of BJU, ACE, and A Beka Books curriculum. The lack of the development of independent thinking skills drives me nuts! And, I’m fairly conservative theologically, but I want to know why I believe what I believe so that I “own” it–not just parrot it back to the teacher.

  12. The comment was made that “the Bible can challenge you but also can change your heart, can change your life, can change the way you think, the decisions you make, and ultimately where you spend eternity.” I completely disagree a billion percent. The ONLY thing the Bible can do is tell you about the One Who can do all these things.

    1. Well, many books have changed the way I think – Mildred Taylor’s books, C. S. Lewis’s, Deborah Ellis’s…
      Other than that, I agree. 🙂

      1. Actually, those books may have changed WHAT you think about a certain topic or a certain situation, but they didn’t change HOW you think about those things. They may have changed your viewpoint, but they didn’t change the processes you use to interpret a situation.

        In fact, I think C.S. Lewis might mention something like that in his book “Mere Christianity”.

        1. Oh, I don’t know about that. Books and more information can change perspective — and in turn affect processes.

          And once you learn that another perspective is out there and see another way of thinking illustrated, you can look for such things and use them. New tools in your mental tool box, as it were.

  13. BJU is not the place for math, science, history etc.. but unline HAC/OBC/Golden State/West Coast they emphasize the arts and theater. They have their own film company and yes they allow girls to wear pants….sometimes.

    Should also be noted that Jack Hyles likes Bob Jones Sr but wasn’t a big fan of Jr., or the III.

    Yes nepotism is rampant in Greenville.

    1. Well, when Gary Guthrie was head of the Math Department there, BJU math students were eagerly sought by Clemson University and other schools for their grad schools.

      I went a more circuitous route. I was a Social Studies Education major, with a math minor. I then did a Master’s in Teaching Mathematics at BJU. I went on a field trip to Clemson, and was genuinely surprised to be invited by Clemson to be a TA and go to grad school there. But they wanted me!

      Guthrie told me that they had inquired about my unusual transcripts. He said he told them that I was a History major who was becoming a good mathematician. At Clemson, on graduating with a Master’s in the Mathematical Sciences there, I was told that I came in the least prepared mathematically of all their grad students, but that I had climbed up to the middle of the group.

      So I wasn’t a brilliant mathematician, but I was seen as competent. And I do have to give credit where credit is due. Gary Guthrie was awesome.

  14. That isn’t apathy you see, dear school administrator. That’s depression and learned helplessness from trying to follow your myriad rules in which you can always be caught in a sin no matter how hard you try. It’s spiritual death from being suffocated by law and not enlivened by Gospel.

    The kid “on fire for God”? Those actions are the violent struggles of the drowning in a last-ditch effort to save themselves.

    May God bring justice for these little ones, and may the Spirit lead them from death to life. May they be wrapped in the loving arms of the One who can lift them out of the tide pool of fundamentalism and put them safely in the vast ocean of His Church.

  15. I remember my Bible classes at BJU. They were just Sunday School classes for big kids. All content, no introductory material, no context and no biblical scholarship. It was not until I went to seminary at another school that I realized that knowing what a text says is a long way from understanding what it means.

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