How does the Spirit of God move upon his people to give of their resources to build buildings and fund schools and do all manner of interior decorating?
Apparently the answer is “first He draws an org chart.”
Linked here for your perusals are two PDF documents (Pages 1-10) (Pages 11-20) that show how Lancaster Baptist Church (and by extension West Coast Baptist College) does its fundraising. As corporate organization schemes go, it’s a thing of beauty.
It appears that they actually start planning in October for the big giving event in March and involve the entire church with video teams sent out, personal testimonies, targeted preaching, mailings, and endless promotions of the giving drive at other events between October and March.
Then after all those months of planning and work God miraculously sends in money. I mean it may look an awful lot like church members being coaxed, cajoled, and and all but coerced into giving but I’m sure God is involved somehow.
First? ihopeihopeihopeihope
Dingdingdingdingding! We have a winner!
Chicken dinner!
Second?
All in favor, signify by raising your right hand!
Third – they refer to it as “building a heart of faith” campaign at my church culminating with a “sacrifice” sunday program.
He signs the letter “Pastor?” That’s real personal.
Yeah, I noticed that, too.
Not Paul, not Mr. Chappell, but “Pastor.”
What humility.
We call our pastor, Pastor, just like my little ones call me, Teacher. But he sure doesn’t refer to himself that way! (I do refer to myself as Teacher sometimes, but that’s a different age group.)
Hey Look! The Taj MaPaul.
You made me snort, Ken Reamy.
How did I miss this?
Hilarious! I will now refer to The Compound as the Taj MaPaul!!!
BOOM +10!
5th
A “Whatever it takes attitude.” Methinks I need to separate from those compromisers.
Just an FYI, that I had to sign into my Google account to see the entire document. Otherwise, I could just get the first page.
And, not to burst anyone’s bubble, but this is typical of how large non-profits, both faith-based and secular, do fund-raising campaigns. Granted, these guys are really heavy on the guilt!
I cannot even see the documents; I get an error from Google that there was an error loading more pages. I’ll try signing in…
Yes – while its true that a lot of secular non-profits use this approach to raise funds, at least you don’t have to sit through 10 weeks of well-timed sermons about sacrificial giving (over and above your “10%” tithes and offerings) prior to the “BIG collection day.” Plus, at my old fundy church, the MOG/CEO and head deacon liked to broadcast how much they expected to receive on the big day (i.e how much that God would provide – i.e through the congregation’s pockets). My old CEO was visibly upset (although he played it down because he had publicly prayed for God to do a GREAT work) about 3 years ago when the sacrificial giving was way under the amount he had been telling the congregation he expected to receive for a special project. That was during the most recent recession and when gas prices were so high. Talk about a dose of reality!!!! I always thought it interesting how the MOG always preaches that sacrificial giving is OVER & ABOVE tithing (10% of gross income and special offerings). I’ve always felt that giving upwards to 10% (or any amount for that fact) as well as special offerings to missionaries IS a sacrifice. I’m at the point that I get sick of all the special projects (i.e. luxuries) that most MOGs expect us to pay for. I’ve determined over the last couple of years that God wants me to use my extra cash for house improvements and family needs that in the past I sacrificed (i.e. overlooked and/or didn’t do) in lieu of giving to the MOG’s special projects (i.e. pocket).
When you have Gid instead of God…..it’s easy to manupulate it’s wants, wishes, intentions, desires, and plans to your own liking 🙂
Assimilation teams? That reeks of … something. Something bad.
Prayer tents? I don’t know what they are but it sounds like those phony balonies on TV.
This is crazy of the bat guano variety.
We are the Borg. Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated. Your monetary wealth will be added to our own. Remember, resistence is futile.
You will be changed to service us.
This is one of the many things that grieve me about this church. There is no leading of the Holy Spirit to direct a person’s heart about a matter, totally directed by the CEO Pastor, who manipulates what he wants everyone to do and even think. I cringe for 3-4 months out of the year because EVERY message will be about giving to the church to build the building. It wouldn’t be so bad if he was just honest and put it out there and let the Spirit move. OH, No! he has his own plan that supersedes what God may have. As this document proves, it is very calculated and planned out, becoming total manipulation of the people
I hope and pray you are able to get out of there.
It really is better on the outside.
” I cringe for 3-4 months out of the year because EVERY message will be about giving to the church to build the building. ”
But then (at least when I was there) he would have the audacity to say how other pastors would sometimes assume he preached on giving all the time to get those kind of fundraising results, but he would tell them he very rarely preached messages about giving. It was all G-d’s doing!!!
So many fundy pastors sound alike – using the exact same wording states away from each other! Do they give the same list of sayings to the preacher boys at all Fundy U’s?? Our pastor also used to say he would rarely preach messages about giving.
With this 64-step plan, that assaulted the congregation from all sides, with messages about giving sacrificially to his endless projects, he really didn’t have to!
Well to be fair, they don’t always preach WHOLE sermons specifically on giving. It just comes up once or twice. in every service. But they’re not PREACHING on it, just mentioning it!
This illustrates a problem in Christianity that has gone back for almost two thousand years. It is the problem where methods and purposes are no different within the church than without – just covered with Christian language. The Catholic church in the middle ages was a good example of this, as peasants starved while Tetzel sold salvation to build the world’s most awesome chapel (St. Peter’s basilica). The problem is that the NT in general and Jesus in particular seem pretty adamant that the practice of Christianity includes having different values and value systems from the world. WCBC is by no means the sole example of this error.
Someone estimated that less than 2% of church contributions go to help the poor and needy. The 98% go to keep up the buildings and grounds and pay the staff.
Yes, yes. One of my IFB pastors went to a conference and came back all excited on “Growing the Church.” He had purchased at some expense planning kits, books for the deacons, and over the next few months decided on a reorganizational structure for the church.
Results were “guaranteed,” they said. I told him, more than once, that the church was not an organization but an organism. If you treat an organism like an organization, it will die.
Three years passed. The Pastor looked out at his church and saw … no growth. All that energy, but the new people who had come in during the time were usually not there. Some regular people had left. The church still lived, but it had not grown. Neither had the community or the economy in the area, either.
Devastated, he began to look abroad for another pastorate, greener pastures, a larger population center and a larger church. He found one – but it wasn’t what he had hoped for, either.
Somehow it seems that MoGs wants to become CEOs. They are not content leading a small flock. No, they have large church visions and megachurch dreams, with the attendant luxuries for the leaders thereof. They don’t see the workers as people with families and the need to spend time nurturing their own. They demand their “all,” as if living for the Lord meant dedicating everything to the “church.”
Finally at last he has found a small church he seems to be content to pastor. I hope he has learned some lessons over the years.
So who was Craig Varner and why is his name blotted out of the book of money?
Dear Watchmen:
That’s what I wanted to ask. But now you’ve got me wondering about the ‘book of money.’ Is that like the book of life?
Christian Socialist
pg 7 #2: “The challenge of leadership is to be strong bug not rude” – Like the Tick?
pg 7 #3: “A leader risks doing things a new way.” – As long as it’s still in line with Pastor’s vision.
While the term “Ministry” implies that it is headed by a minister, there is nowhere in Goldstein’s book any mention of a Minister of Love nor of the ministers heading Lancaster’s other Ministries. The heads of the ministries are evidently shadowy figures with all public attention focused on the idealized figurehead Big Brother Chappell.
“Minister of love” is like “assimilation team”.
Sounds kinky.
This building has a room 101, I just know it does.
I attended many of those banquets at Lancaster Baptist. David Gibbs almost always preached and laid out the guilt strong. I personally saw someone I know put her wedding ring in the coffer because she had nothing else to give – and could not bear it.
A Fundy-sanitized version of this song was often sung at the banquets. The lyrics are:
I have wrestled in the darkness of this lonely pilgrim land
Raising strong and mighty fortresses that I alone command
But these castles I’ve constructed by the strength of my own hand
Are just temporary kingdoms on foundations made of sand
In the middle of the battle I believe I’ve finally found
I’ll never know the thrill of victory till I’m willing to lay down
All my weapons of defense and earthly strategies of war
So I’m laying down my arms and running helplessly to Yours
I surrender all my silent hopes and dreams
Though the price to follow costs me everything
I surrender all my human soul desires
If sacrifice requires that all my kingdoms fall
I surrender all
If the source of my ambition is the treasure I obtain
If I measure my successes on a scale of earthly gain
If the focus of my vision is the status I attain
My accomplishments are worthless and my efforts are in vain
So I lay aside these trophies to pursue a higher crown
And should You choose somehow to use the life I willingly lay down
I surrender all the triumph for it’s only by Your grace
I relinquish all the glory, I surrender all the praise
I surrender all my silent hopes and dreams
Though the price to follow costs me everything
Well I surrender all my human soul desires
If sacrifice requires that all my kingdoms fall
I surrender all
Everything I am, all I’ve done, and all I’ve known
Now belongs to You, the life I live is not my own
Just as Abraham laid Isaac on the sacrificial fire
If all I have is all that You desire
I surrender all
I surrender all my human soul desires
If sacrifice requires that all my kingdoms fall
That all my kingdoms fall, that all my kingdoms fall
I surrender all
Read more: Clay Crosse – I Surrender All Lyrics | MetroLyrics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THHu5QPjB_4
Yes, putting you through the Guilt Wringer seems to be mandatory.
My IFB church likes the song “God’s Refining Fire,” where you ask the Lord to put you through it.
At a certain point, I could not bear to sing it any longer. I could understand the Lord using circumstances to teach me valuable lessons. But to *ask* Him to make me suffer? I had suffered enough! So I would stand, but I would not sing. If the Lord needs to refine me, He can make that decision, but I bloody well won’t ask for it.
I am at the place where I need a God of Love and Mercy, not a God of Chastisement or a Strict and Unbending God. And I certainly do NOT want to become what the MoG has in mind.
In fundy churches, they want all Spirituality to be of the same sort. They want people to believe exactly the same, give the same, meet the “standards,” attend all services, look the same (white shirts and ties and suit coats, men!). In biology, the only thing in the body that demands sameness at that level is a cancer.
“In biology, the only thing in the body that demands sameness at that level is a cancer.” Love this
I always wondered – if money and sacrificial giving were so dad-blamed important to God – why the various MOgs in my life didn’t get a part time evening job stocking the shelves at Walgreens. They could donate all the income to the building fund.
That kind of sacrifice is reserved for the peons.
“I always wondered – if money and sacrificial giving were so dad-blamed important to God” why can’t HE give some of the cattle on a thousand hills and wealth from His mines to fund the MoG’s projects? Sure. Impoverish the people He has sworn to bless!
Funny thing. In the Old Testament, God’s promises were physical blessings. But as time went on, and especially in the face of world powers after the captivity, it seemed increasingly difficult for physical promises to be kept. So the physical promises were recast as spiritual ones, pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die stuff. Instead of being kept safe if you obeyed God, you were counted blessed if you suffered for righteousness’ sake!
Which appears to be a kind of bait and switch. What? God doesn’t have enough wealth on His own to go around? Or did God find it so difficult to actually bless the right people with wealth and prosperity in the land of Israel that He decided He couldn’t handle it for the world at large?
No. I am not really bitter here. I just find the difference between “promises” and “reality” to be interesting. Even David in the Scriptures voiced his complaint about it (though he didn’t dare say it directly, and wound up having to waffle to justify God). Today we see the wicked prospering, and many of those are MoGs. MoGs keep spreading the word (OT) about the physical blessings coming from giving, but somehow manage to blame the giver when God doesn’t pony up. Not enough faith, and all.
Mind you, I am thankful for God’s blessings. But too often once I have given thanks, the hammer falls.
Dear Used-To-Be-Fundy:
Thank you for including the tune reference. Reading verse 1, I was sure this was sung to the Battle Hymn of the Republic. The last line broke that theory.
Christian Socialist
I like page 9
“We must lead by example. Set chicks aside.”
I swear the sentence below that one reads “We must Gravy frequently”.
Yes, gravy as often as possible.
I like mine wavy.
A Leader has a Whatever it Takes Attitude
Isn’t that called pragmatism?
It’s called unscrupulousness.
And often idiocy.
From the very profound “Leadership Development” section:
“The challenge of leadership is to be strong bug [sic] not rude.”
“It is significant to inform your team members of and confirm them for these important meetings. They need to know, clearly, the time, place, and purples [sic] of the meeting.”
Who in holy blazes proofread this crap?
Surely a West Coast Baptist College grad! Probably an education major.
Probably the head of West Coast Baptist College’s English Department.
They want people (purples?) to be confirmed now? That’s rather Popish, isn’t it? Does Chappell slap them?
Rhinoceros beetles to the front, please! They’re fantastically strong, and hardly ever rude. Perfect leaders. Their English is a little sketchy, but they’d be good at reminding people of the purples of meetings.
“The Campaign Pastor will also assist the home host team captains with the oversight of home visits, contacting church members, and evaluating the response of each member.”
No pressure here folks. Each of you are being “evaluated” for your “response”, i.e., how much $$ you’re pooping out for the cause.
Always the pressure. And you are never allowed to decide what God’s will is for you. The MoG and his team decide that for you.
I love studying businesses and cults. Keeping up with Fundy churches ( especially larger ones like Paul Chappell has) is a great way to learn about both.
Lol!
My work has the PDF blocked. The message comes up that it may be directly or indirectly linked to inappropriate content.
Sounds like your blocker has the right idea. Inappropriate content, indeed!
True enough.
I don’t think I see much point in the documents. They seem to be pretty general.
Generally manipulative and not remotely biblical.
OK, what was manipulative? I see plans for lots of “push” of the program, but maybe I missed the instructions to use guilt and manipulation to make the goals… is something being read into the documents?
The building in the Photo is the Revels Building there at WCBC that was built several years ago. I spent much time there. I used to get smoothies there and also sandwiches there which were taken from Panera Bread. I purchased books there. Toward the end of my stint as an off campus student, I spent much time there in the computer lab. I even rested with my eyes closed several times on the top floor on a sofa. I sung in the music room there with three of my fellows. I spent my mornings there at 6:00 am with Mcdonalds in hand. I spent mornings there at the end talking with a girl there even though it was against the rules to be by ourselves: she helped me with a resume in the computer lab: may God bless her even though I didn’t agree with some of her ideas concerning clothes. 🙂
Nevertheless I also mused there and compared the doctrine of the Baptists with the King James Bible and found that some of their doctrine was against the Bible: I was troubled by this there…in the top floor. This building is a memorable one for me. I did all this there a couple of years ago. In the end I left silently because of doctrinal issues. There were students there who wanted to do something for God.
There are also ISIL members in Iraq right now who want to do something for God. As V so elegantly put it, “I have not come for what you intended to do; I have come for what you did.”
When I said God, I meant the God of the Bible. They have potential: they just needed to be zealous according to knowledge.
They would say that your “God of the Bible” indicates your zeal without knowledge.
I am a Christian. However, “God” cannot be proven, much less that “the God of the Bible” is THE Real and Only God. You just can’t do it. Belief is by faith without testable evidence. Considering that fundamentalist Christians even discount, say, the God of the Seventh-Day Adventists or the God of the Mormons and even(!) the God of Episcopalians as being false, saying that the denominations do not preach the gospel, etc. ad nauseum, I think it is safe to say that fundamentalism is little more than a widely spread cult. And their “God of the Bible” is defined, of course, only as how they choose to read the Bible, not necessarily by what is IN the Bible.
Page 5 – The fundy Seminar fill-in-the-blank worksheets – always hated those – the flock of sheep is around a 2nd grade understanding level I guess?
Sorry Holy Spirit, we can’t always count on you to show up and wring out the amount of money from our members that we have predetermined they should give. It’s just so much easier to function as a business that uses guilt and manipulation to bring out the re$ult$ we want. There is that verse* in the Bible about giving… But our manual produces better re$ult$. Our sheeple can’t handle making their own decisions. And, quite frankly, it makes our Pastor very uncomfortable to not be in complete control.
*Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7 ESV)
And for good measure, here it is in their sacred version:
*Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV)
Somehow the fundy interpetation of that verse ended up as, “If you rob God, He’ll get His tithe one way or another– He may even kill you.” And of course 10 percent of the gross is just the starting point. Something about trying to put new wine into old bottles comes to mind.
Sorry, that was a little off topic.
Yeah. That makes God out to be some kind of mob-boss. “You don’t paya the protection money, we breaka your legs. Maybe your arms too. Remember, we are here to protect you. You don’t pay, we can’t protect.”
If Paul Chappell actually had some faith, he would throw out his faithless 64-step plan and simply let the congregation know once about a special offering in March. At that time he could ask them to pray and give them a special offering envelope. Then leave the rest up to God.
NO MORE dinner banquets, prayer tents, custom made videos about giving, endless weekly meetings, personal testimonies of a questionable nature, children and teen giving programs, or making the staff share publicly what they gave (I saw this…the particular staff was VERY uncomfortable doing it, but obeyed his master), etc.
But then he would have to adjust his 20+ phase* building program to what God actually provided….so the odds of Chappell exercising this kind of actual faith is nil.
*I can’t recall the exact number of phases, but it was huge and neverending.
Exactly this! Why doesn’t Paul Chappell have enough faith that God will move on the hearts of His people?
Same goes for the invitation, why doesn’t he just be quiet and let the Holy Spirit speak to the heart? It’s hard to even pray during an invitation because Pastor Chappell keeps talking in this come hither voice suggesting things you need to pray for, directing the thoughts of the congregation. Is he afraid to let the Holy Spirit convict those that need convicting?
I imagine that all the debt that’s incurred from these massive building projects makes leadership rather nervous. I’d rather be part of a ministry that built slowly as funds became available than amass piles of debt you have to keep doing these big giving events . But I don’t suppose you could build an impressive ministry that way.
Incidentally, I always found it funny in my former church the only time anybody read from the minor prophets was right before the offering when one of the pastors would read from Malachi 3:10.
Contrast with Hudson Taylor’s approach:
“Hudson Taylor saw that the faith-principles of the Mission must be carried to the point of making no appeals for money. If the Mission could be sustained by the faithful care of God in answer to prayer alone, it might grow up affording a practical illustration of its underlying principle that “God Himself, God alone, is sufficient for God’s own work.”
~Dr. and Mrs. Howard Taylor
(Hudson Taylor’s son and daughter-in-law)
From “Hudson Taylor and the China Inland Mission”
March 2014 Renew Offering video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1aMCV5beM
Okay, the kid was cute.
A few thoughts:
1) If the church is so concerned about space for children’s ministries, why is their Christian school still in the same modulars that they have used for the past 20 years?
2) If it is better to give than to receive, does Mr. Chappell give back the annual birthday gift that the congregation gives to him?
I know the man in the video. He is a good man. I am not criticizing him. But he is one of many young men who moved to Lancaster with a dream to serve in the ministry and attend WCBC. Unfortunately, at some point he found out that ministry was not for him and he never finished college. He stayed around Lancaster, got married, and is now raising his family, sending his kids to the Christian school, and sacrificing for the giving banquets…
The only observation that I wish to make is that the drive to push young men right after high school into unaccredited bible colleges when the professors know the attrition rate is so high is unconscionable. It causes a lot of good men who are not called for the ministry and who otherwise would have learned a useful trade or gone to a university to get an education to slave away at low paying menial jobs while they try to make ends meet for themselves or their family, all the while giving and serving and sacrificing. Some will eventually learn a trade, others will go back to school, but at what cost?
Dr. Rasmussen, vice principle at WCBC, often says, “Some people ask, ‘But don’t we need Christian doctors and lawyers?’ Sure we do. But let the Methodists be the doctors and lawyers and let us serve the Lord in full time ministry!”
Many are conscribing their children to a life of financial hardship by pushing them into “Bible College” and denying them the ability to earn an education or learn a trade.
I so totally agree! My Fundy church was very concerned I would compromise because I went to secular university first, but my parents, thankfully, insisted. I did get Bible training later, but from an accredited school, before I went overseas as a missionary. Since I am still single, and will probably remain so as I am approaching retirement, I am so glad that I have always had a marketable skill. And, I want Christian doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.!
Since when are Methodists any kind of Christian? Has Rasmussen lost his mind? That’s not fundy talk. Only fundies are the Twue Believers. Everyone else is just faking it.
Sarcasm? I’ve got plenty. Thanks for noticing.
Hmmm. So Rasmussen thinks that fundies should only be in full-time ministry! That figures.
Nearly very missionary, evangelist, team, etc. that comes to my IFB church emphasizes full-time ministry to the kids. They discount other occupations, not directly, but by telling people that “they can serve the Lord in a full-time ministry” – as if you can’t serve the Lord in a secular job! Paul’s tent making occupation was such a waste, you know!
A few of the young people went to BJU, PCC, and other places and majored in Bible. They have had a hard time finding work. There aren’t enough churches with people willing to pony up to support another MoG.
The wonderful thing about NOT being in the “full-time” ministry is that you have to live in the real world. And if you can keep from being gulled into giving all your “spare” time to the church, you can actually find out the real needs people have! It frees you from some of the fundy nonsense you have been fed.
It’s like the time one of the guest speakers at my fundy high school looked out over us students and smiled, “Now I hope to eventually see all you boys become preachers and all you girls become preacher’s wives!” Even then I didn’t think that seemed right, and I was deep into Fundistan at that time. Who would plant the corn? Who would write the poems? Who would put out fires? Talk about single-minded. 😐
When I was there they even separated Sunday School classes by whether or not the college-age person was attending West Coast Baptist College. I suspect the expectation was for their WCBC students to marry each other, and not those “other people”.
Ironically, for a church that expects their congregation to constantly put out $$$$$$$$ for their forever building plan, they work so hard at keeping them poorly educated and in low wage jobs.
Even if a student wants to go into ministry, they would be MUCH better off attending an accredited college first. Many pastors have had to work secular jobs to supplement their income. And that is a biblical model set by the Apostle Paul.
Haha my former church did that. There was the college sunday school class, then the single-adults class. I always felt like we were somehow second class (even lower than the college students!) because we either a) never attended the college or had dropped out or b) had finished college and hadn’t found a spouse and so were somehow not quite right. It felt like the rejects class! But we could go out for dinner after church without a pass and do whatever the heck we wanted, so being a “reject” was so worth it.
Dear Paul Chappell:
I know expertise when I see it. Yours is ministry to a building.
Christian Socialist
In the early 90’s the church was told “We need to move to a new location” so the church said “Let’s sacrifice!” In 1996 the church was told “We need a bigger auditorium” so the church said “Let’s sacrifice!” In the early 2000’s the church was told “We need a three story administration building” so the church said “Let’s sacrifice!” Later the church was told “We need a new three story education building” so the church said “Let’s sacrifice!” In 2010 the church was told “We need an athletic pavilion”. I wonder if the church is now saying “We have to sacrifice again? How much more are we going to have to give?”
I have not heard much about Victory Night from last March. Did they not get the amount they wanted in pledges and in the cash offering?
The longer I was there the more I felt that the attitude of the leadership was “You should be so thankful we are letting you give your time and money to us.”
Reread Animal Farm by George Orwell. The parallels are chilling.
And be manipulated to give for building the church a restaurant so members can be “encouraged” to spend their money there instead of at other businesses.
Tax exempt restaurant?
Tax exempt coffee shops?
Tax exempt book store?
If those are not registered as separate businesses, will the IRS start questioning this?
Sad and unfortunate that your sentiment was of such negativity. You must have had a hurt or something happen that you are not willing to get over. The goal of buildings is transformed lives. Chappell himself says if those buildings ever cease to bring glory to God and save the lost, may they burn to the ground.
Sorry for your feelings.
Ahhh, always the victim’s fault! You had a hurt you are not willing to get over!
Nasty, nasty. How about “Christian” leaders acting like Christ instead of self-serving, fiefdom-building monarchs?
Buildings do not transform lives. Christ does. Meeting people where they live, not putting up little businesses you expect your congregation to shop at or eat at. Buildings can put burdens on people, too hard for them to manage. Encouraging people to go into debt to support the building program?
Yes, many of us have been hurt. And perhaps we can’t get over them because the villains of the piece aren’t sorry or repentant for their wickedness! I, for one, do not think I should be fine and good with the abuses the IFBers have done to people, including me and my family.
Jesus said of those who crucified him, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” The MoGs, on the other hand, know very well what they are doing, and they do it anyway.
People who argue that the victims are sinning because they have trouble forgiving the victimizers not only do not help, but are the final impetus to leave faith all together. “Miserable comforters are ye all!”
Ah, so Christ-like and compassionate your answer.
Buildings in and of themselves transform no one. It’s the people in them who can transform others, and you don’t need fancy buildings for that.
Actually, I take that back.
My school district decided to completely renovate one of the schools and all the fields. It has transformed my property taxes like you wouldn’t believe, and consequently the lives of my family.
The building still fails and the grounds are almost completely useless, but the contractors are living well.
What is it with contractors who charge large but cannot do the job right?
There should be some guarantees. No cost overruns allowed. It works, or the company fixes it at its own expense. If they don’t owner(s) go to jail. I think that’s fair. Oh, I would make allowances for earthquakes, tsunamis, comet or large meteor strikes. But we have a construction industry built on the notion of fraud at the public trough.
Remember the Temple in Jerusalem? People were so impressed with how it glorified God, yet Jesus predicted its utter and total destruction.
Actually my sentiment simply reflects the reality of the fundraising scheme Paul Chappell has elected to use instead of actually having faith in God to provide for His church. The document speaks for itself. He incessantly pushes the congregation to give “sacrificially, by faith”, yet he chooses to resort to manipulation instead of faith.
“You must have had a hurt or something happen that you are not willing to get over. ”
More people need to refuse to just “get over” it and stand up against such abuse of God’s people.
So tell me, baptistoftoday, are you actually in favor of Paul Chappell’s 64-step fundraising plan?
“The goal of buildings is transformed lives. ”
More Chappellite empty rhetoric.
Buildings do not transform lives. Church restaurants, gymnasiums, and coffee shops do not transform lives. Even the sanctuary or “worship center” does not transform lives.
We are to look to Christ. He alone transforms. And he can do that without any new, expensive building.
Again, this is just a faithless belief.
Jason B. wrote, “Reread Animal Farm by George Orwell. The parallels are chilling.”
And George Orwell’s 1984 too.
I need a lot of work done to my house. I wish I had a bunch of followers who would “sacrifice” to pay for it. I’d write a 20 page plan and pull out all the stops, too! As it is, I have to rely on bank loans and/or government programs.
I get sick to my stomach when I think about how we were brainwashed into forking over money we didn’t have to the building program. I know for a fact that a lot of people took out loans and went into debt. I used to wonder how people could let themselves get so easily talked into just handing over their money to a church, now I understand.
I would think that any pastor who was concerned about his congregation would warn them not to be be foolish or impulsive in their giving. However, I did hear Pastor Chappell say in a Sunday night service that refinancing your home is a good way to free up more money to give to the building program. Even though I was still a believer in LBC back then I thought “That makes no sense to me.”
Mean bitter people. That’s how you’ve been and seems like forever will be.
Only because people like you made us that way!
There are those calling themselves the servants of God, men of God, ministers and such that are little more than the Devil’s minions. They say that they preach grace, but in reality promote salvation by works. They put themselves on pedestals for people to admire and follow. They are proud and arrogant. They do what they condemn in others.
If you are a “biblicalbaptistoftoday” then you should be more interested in healing the hurts and making right the wrongs. Oh, I don’t doubt you are a “baptist of today,” but “biblical”? That remains to be seen.
Your graciousness and love of Christ as demonstrated in your comments is simply legendary and motivates me to go right back — to my sangria.
Why don’t you try gin & tonic? That’s what I’m having currently.
I have neither, and now I’m out of sangria. I slept well, though.
bapistoftoday, you are all about ad hominem attacks. It seems you are trying to avoid the actual topic.
Are you able to argue the merits of Chappell’s 64-step fundraising plan?
Silly question.
Dear biblicalbaptistoftoday: I’m saying this as nicely and in as Cxn manner as I possibly can: Why don’t you go have ‘a relationship’ with yourself?
Or in KJV speak, “depart and knoweth thyself?”
…enters room, checks out the refreshments…
leaving with a handful of something I cannot define….
B.R.1
The new fundraising video for their March 6, 2016 offering is out. Lots and lots of cute kids shown, as usual. Some olde tyme footage included. Time to take out your checkbooks again, Chappell – bots!
Details of the building plan starts at 05:45.
Paul Chappell speaks at 08:14
“…the Christian faith is only one generation away from extinction…”
tl;dr = It’s for the children! You want your life to be an example for the next generation. Step forward again! The kids will remember your sacrifice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snNeIHYN9PM&feature=youtu.be
Video announcing the annual building banquet and pre-banquet activities. Just part of that 64-step plan, I suppose. David Gibbs will “preach” [or manipulate, depending on your viewpoint].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGVjU5quFAA&ebc=ANyPxKrt2M6QRWAO61XfbZjJUuzeigR7tkiypWibkMSTXsRt9dXkd2b6gvzLapD2rAahspA_lO04
Can’t outgive Gid, ya know!
Think of all Gid has done for you; don’t you owe him at least the balance of your account and every dime of equity…cause you should totally try to pay Him back.
If you give by faith, Gid will be obligated to give you more money – Luke 6!!! Test Gid!
Sorry…having flashbacks tonight.