Proof Text For Fun And Profit

An alert SFL reader sent me a link to contendforthefaith.ca, wherein I learned that Canadians have their own crazy fundamentalists. Who knew?

One of the highlights of this site was the section on Spiritual Service Standards, which purport to be a guide for the behavior of people in ministry. As the author writes:

“In the face or today’s drift from Scriptural principles, it is our desire to maintain the highest level of spiritual ministry in the Christian service of our Church, and to maintain a pure testimony for Christ in every phase of its life.”

Here are the proof texts given for avoiding particular behaviors deemed to be a bad testimony. You can find them on pages 5 and 6 of the original document(PDF). Once you begin to read the “Scriptural principles” presented, however, it’s hard to determine exactly how the quoted verses “prove” anything.

sale or use of alcoholic beverages or illegal drugs

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

gambling

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Proverbs 28:8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

use of tobacco

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

social dancing of any type

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

attendance at commercial movie theaters

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

viewing of carnal videos

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

carnal-radio, carnal theater, and carnal television programs

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.

carnal music

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

carnal literature

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

worldly card playing

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

159 thoughts on “Proof Text For Fun And Profit”

    1. You noticed that too? It seems like such important standards would at least have their own out-of-context proof text.

      I also love how he thinks that the word “sober” in 1 Thessalonians 5:6 means “not drunk.”

      1. IFB pastors often claim that other preachers (the evangelicals, the liberals, etc.) twist Scripture to say what they want it to say, but fundies do the same thing. They twist the meaning of Scripture to justify their personal interpretation.

    2. His verses only prove the soul liberty of the individual believer to decide which things edify and which things hinder one’s personal spiritual life. Those verses do NOT forbid the things he lists, and since they do not, they show again that we are not under the law, following a list of rules, but we are under Christ and we can follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit on which things we should avoid.

      And of course he misuses the verse “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” I used to wonder about that since Christ Himself didn’t avoid doing things that might appear sinful to other people. Thankfully I learned that THAT’S NOT WHAT THE VERSE MEANS! It means to avoid every kind of evil. Not only does learning the actual meaning of the verse reassure me about Christ’s own actions, but it frees me from having to bow to the dictates of fundy rules.

      1. PW, do you mean to suggest that the King James is wrong? It sounds like you are looking at the “original” Greek. Which is really a perversion from Egypt, which is a symbol of THE WORLD. And there was that brazen whore of Babylon Cleopatra too!! So, don’t correct MY King James BIBLE with YOUR Greek!!!

        Sincerely,
        My Inner Fundie

        1. Dear Deacon’s Son:

          What I want to know is, ‘why did I spend all those late nights cramming Hebrew roots and Greek vocabulary into my brain.’

          A guy once said to me, ‘education isn’t the answer.’

          I replied, ‘neither is ignorance.’

          He didn’t like that.

          Christian Socialist

        2. Dear Deacon’s Son:

          Let that be a lesson to you. NEVER trust the educated guy. The dumber you are, the safer you are. There are churches full of people that prove that. [Don’t ask for proof; just take my word for it…].

          Christian Socialist

        3. HAYmen! I’m scrubbing the file systems my brain used to save all the college edumacation I got as we speak, and yes in case you audit me I will have documentation of the deed being done to the DoD 5220.22-M disk wiping standard

        4. @Deacon’s Son: The KJV isn’t wrong, just misunderstood. Because most of us haven’t got more than a 1/4 clue about late Elizabethan/Jacobian usage.
          @Captain Solo: Ow. Just ow.

    1. I think all this “first” nonsense breeds pride. For which there are lots and lots of Skripchers. So . . . please everyone stop the “first” thing because it is causing me to stumble. πŸ˜‰

        1. @Deacon’s Son – one of my least favorite proof texts. First of all, God is God and therefore can do whatever He likes, and second of all, that’s NOT WHAT IT MEANS! *headdesk until unconsciousness strikes*

        2. See Annie Moose, now the “first” thing is causing you to stumble! And don’t you know that hitting your head on things is paganistical!?!

      1. At my house Uno leads to outbursts of anger, jealousy and cheating from my seven year old. Ever noticed how difficult it is to NOT look at someone’s cards; and the glee she gets from obliterating me with a Wild +four. Seriously, she has to apologize after every game for either being the most gloating winner ever or sorest loser. I am an adult so that never happens. πŸ˜† Uno should be verboten best to avoid temptation!!!

        1. Growing up, Monopoly caused major fights in our household. Especially once my brothers decided they could be bank robbers.

    1. If I recall correctly, it was anything other than Rook. I’ve seen some pretty cutthroat and vicious Rook games in my time, compared to the sedate but apparently hell-bound bridge my mother and her sisters played. (In hell-bound bridge, you can only bid the black suits, I guess.)

      Bonus, two of the older card games were Gin and Rum, later Rummy, so part of the injunction against cards was because it brought the appearance of evil in via the names of the games.

      1. At least in the Fundy circles I lived in, anything from the whole Uno franchise was allowed, as was Dutch Blitz (see SFL’s very first post: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2008/11/dutch-blitz/
        I also remember playing Rook, Mille Bournes and Pit, not to mention Crazy 8s, I Doubt It, Go Fish, Old Maid, Spoons, etc., but with specially-designed non-playing card cards. I only learned later that some of these games could be played with playing cards. Rummykub and Mahjong were okay too, because they were played with tiles, not cards. I never heard of anyone objecting to Dominoes, but I guess the same arguments could be made.

        1. I have heard that Mahjong and dominoes were not good for Christians to play, because you could be a bad testimony or a stumbling block, since some people gamble while playing those games.

          I have often wondered if Fundies know that people gamble on the MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, etc.

      2. Fun fact: Rook cards are descended from Tarot cards. Replace the suit names with colors, the face cards with numerical values, strip off the art, and remove the major arcana except The Fool and you have a Rook deck.

        And since standard 4-suit playing cards are an even MORE stripped-down Tarot deck, remove the Rook card and the 14 of each color and you have a standard deck. You just decide which two colors are red and which are black for purposes of games where that matters.

        Not sure how you make a standard deck from UNO cards because of the face card issue (I’ve never belonged to a church or been in a school where that knowledge was needed), but I have heard rumors here before of UNO poker in IFB college dorms.

        1. I always thought the Poker in the dorms thing was just a tad bit pathetic. It had nothing to do with wanting to gamble or whatever. It was all about “ooooh look how bad we are being and we are GETTING AWAY WITH IT! Tee hee hee.” My impression was: if you don’t like the rules go somewhere else; no one is impressed by what a “rebel” you are. (Yeah, I know some of them don’t have a choice. Believe me, I was there . . . until I left in disgust after a couple of years.)

        2. Uno to a regular deck isn’t that hard. All you have to do is decide which special cards represent which face cards (Draw Two = King or something), or just write on them with pencil (or stick a bit of paper on there with tape). Easy peasy.

        3. I had friends in college who played a drinking game with Mountain Dew, and it was that same, sad “hee hee it’s like we’re kinda sinning almost” attitude. Makes me sad. Legalism both trivializes the whole concept of sin, and destroys the whole concept of rejoicing. πŸ™

        4. Only in the sense that all 4-suit card decks derive from the original Mameluke decks invented in Turkey and spread through Europe via Egypt in the 14th and 15th centuries. Tarot cards were first seen in Italy in about the mid-15th century. Any inspection of a modern Tarot deck (say, Rider-Waite) makes the late Medieval Christian symbolism of the Major Arcana apparent. But I digress.
          Rook was invented by Parker Bros. in 1906 with the explicit goal of selling a card game to those sects which disapproved of “standard” playing cards. I suppose that evil could be imputed here, but I can’t be bothered to comment.

    2. When Jawbones (Bob Jones University to some) came out with BJUopoly, a group of pastors wrote letters to Triplestyx himself, complaining that the game had dice in it. We know this because Triplestyx read the letters aloud to us in chapel while leading the entire student body into peals of laughter at those poor, ignorant, legalistic pinheads.

      Oh, the irony.

  1. I Corinthians 6:19, putting fornication and tobacco in the same category. It’s just so much easier to say “no” to everything than recognizing any nuance in the scripture.

  2. I always struggled to understand how so many seemingly harmless things could, in reality, be of the Devil. Thanks for clearing things up, and setting me back on the straight and narrow! πŸ˜‰

  3. From that list, I’d say that’s more like proof texting against fun…

    … but it sure is for profit, judging from the prominent donation links on that page. πŸ˜†

  4. I think Dutch Blitz is ok because the women are modestly clothed . . .
    I remember at my Christian school, I got in trouble for having Pokemon cards. I vaguely remember something about them having a “bad philosophy” or being “pagan” or something. I was 8 or 9 at the time.
    I also got a “talking-to” from the principal at the time, for telling other kids that I had watched “Pete’s Dragon.” Yes, there are alcohol scenes in that movie.
    of course, his wife, who was my third grade teacher, got away with quite a bit. She once locked me out in the snow with no coat on for about half an hour because I complained that the building was too hot. She was also notorious for throwing my crayon box at another child, and for banging one little boy’s head against the wall for misbehavior. But at least she didn’t watch Pete’s Dragon! πŸ™„

    1. Banging a little boy’s head against the wall? Good thing that wasn’t my child, or she would have been charged with assault, child abuse, and anything else the police could come up with on the spot.

      1. This sickens me. I can’t believe those who serve a God that says “let the little chidren come unto me and forbid them not” and “whoso offends on of these little ones . . .” would think in any realm of possibility that it was okay to treat kids like this!

        My own abusive mother used to say, “well, I don’t burn you with cigarettes or whip you with electric cords!” I was like, “oh, well I guess you are okay then! Not!!!”

        There is no such thing as “biblical” corporal punishment. (I know some will disagree, but that’s just my opinion.)

  5. The mouseover text just kills me. I was talking to a pastor friend of mine the other day, who thanked me sarcastically for my countrymen sending not one but three Korean translations off of the King James. Fundamentalism should be listed on our exports.

    On another note, that level of proof-texting to support only his rules truly boggles the mind. You would think someone would have taught him to proof text more thoroughly, or at least to provide a little variety.

      1. All three translations, from what I can tell and what I’ve heard from native speakers, are tolerable but awkward. English to Korean just doesn’t translate well.
        Basically, it started with the first KJV Korean translators publicly stating that if you didn’t use their version you would go to hell, so that created a major backlash and no one wanted their version, so another version was created. Then the translators of the second version and the translators of the third version separated from each other and started throwing proverbial eggs at each other, and it’s all been downhill since then. It’s been an amusing 10-15 years in Bibles over here.
        Now you’re up to date on crazy KVJO behavior in the far east. πŸ˜€

      1. I heard that carnivals were evil because they take money from innocent kids and use it to buy drugs and alcohol. We know all carnies are just transients running from the law and responsibilities. (I wish I could say I made this up)

        1. I remember hearing many times how the word “amusement” literally means “not thinking,” which means that when you are being amused, you are not protecting the stronghold of your mind and you’re giving a foothold to the Devil. I wish I could say I’m making this up.

        1. Well, that, and everyone knows you get your hand stamped now, then you’re just all geared up to take the Mark of the Beast.

        2. Dear Apathy:

          What? I thought that hand-stamping was training for receiving the mark of the beast! :mrgreen:

          Christian Socialist

      2. You might ride the Scrambler. With a boy or girl of the opposite sex! Oh, it starts out innocent enough, but then that evil centrifugal force takes over, and there you are, all smashed up together. Why it’s just carnal as all get out! And when you step off that infernal contraption all disheveled: you’re the very definition of appearance of evil!

        1. Been there and done exactly that. With godly, jean-skirt-wearing women cheering me on with knowing grins.

      3. Hey, then I’m not the only one! When the film “Carnal Knowledge” came out, I thought it was “CarnIVal OF Knowledge”, like a fair set at a school. Good thing I was just a kid back then and didn’t go see it. Now I’m getting images of a Carnal Carnival, oh dear… πŸ˜‰ 😈
        putting the FUN back in Fundementalist

        1. You know fundies haven’t discovered The Night Circus yet, but when they do that will be added to the sin list.

    1. Exactly. My father is a psychiatrist. And, miraculously, the preacher decided that it wasn’t a sin to go to the psychiatrist once my father starting giving the big bucks.

      1. My mother used to get so upset over that. It’s hypocricy at its finest; to be fair, it can happen anywhere, but to desire to be “set apart” and to accept something you preach against at the “pulpit” is ridiculous.

  6. It is good to see that they made it into so many top Fundy site lists. Even a Top 100[000…..].

    It’s too bad I have an inferior, non Android phone. I miss out on the Chick Tract App. Just think of all the “ministry” opportunities wasted.

  7. I found this little nugget of wisdom in the articles section:
    “Our world has changed dramatically over the last few decades. It almost seems as if Islam is about to take over the world. Islam is determined to establish a world-wide Islamic caliphate which seems to be a growing possibility.”

    Up until 1989-1990 every good fundy knew that the Soviet Union would take over the world since it was clearly prophesied in the book of Politics. After that it was the world’s largest debating society, the UN, that was going to be The One World Government. Now it is “Teh Islamz” that are on the verge of ruling the world. It is the same tired story with a new boogie man.

    Of course, those of us in the evidence-based community look at the world and notice that the trend is for larger countries to break up. In 1900 there were approximately 50 countries on the globe. Today there are around 200. More countries, more national flags and more governments seems to be the opposite of a one-world government. I guess this probably means that I am in on the conspiracy.

    Fundies dearly love an unscriptural scare don’t they?

    1. That’s a really good point. Of course, a really devout conspiracy theorist will just say that the OWG is hiding itself really, really well. Facts don’t matter. It’s like people going bonkers about invisible child snatchers out to steal children away from settings where their own parents were perfectly safe–even though crime has gone down nationwide in recent decades. Fear trumps facts.

      And also of course, fear is convenient; it makes the world small and manageable by proclaiming large swaths of it to be untouchable.

    2. I don’t pretend to have a “proof text” for it, but it doesn’t take a genius to see the danger coming from the Islamic world.
      Libya is in turmoil and moving toward a fundamentalist Islamic government. The Ihkwan have risen to power in Egypt. The black flag of jihad was raised over our embassy in Yemen just a few days ago. The long-secular Turkey, the seat of the original caliphate, is beginning to once again embrace elements of sharia. Iran and Saudi Arabia, the centers of Shiite and Sunni power, have sat down to discuss terms, something that would have been unheard of even a few years ago. None of these countries regard the West with any fondness, as the last week has proven.
      Make no mistake–trouble IS coming.

      1. Alright, time to wipe the smirks off of your faces and actually face reality. With all the “victims” out there who are now suddenly just discovering that their lives are ruined because they went to an IFB school – 20 years or longer ago – please lay off the sardonic attempts at trying to be witty. There have been more victims of some great IFB “conspiracies” just discovered in the last 2 months than the last 30 years combined. And the funny thing is, most of these people could lead relatively normal, adjusted lives if they actually grew up and in their 40’s and 50’s started to act like adults and not junior highers (do they still have jr. high anymore?).

        1. My God is a God of compassion.

          “A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory” (Mat. 12:20)

          “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds” (Ps. 147:3).

          “Should not shepherds take care of the flock? You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally…
          β€œβ€˜Because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock…
          β€œβ€˜For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. 12As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness…I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice” (from Ez. 34).

        2. Yes, the USSR was an existential threat. Yes, Islam has always wished to subjugate or destroy us. But the Indy Fundies seem to have forgotten that in the end, GOD WINS! And those who are His are safe in His hand! So, screaming and hollering about all this stuff (and letting their Americanism get in the way of their Christianity) is really evidence of a lack of faith in the God they claim to serve.

          As for the snark regarding having our lives destroyed by IFB: You are a real winner, there, Mr. Jenkins. Plenty of people who suffered serious physical, psychological, and spiritual harm at the hands of “pastors” and other Exalted Beings within the IFB. Some of them are only now trying to escape the hopelessness and condemnation to which they were condemned by the bad behavior of others, and you come on here and mock them. Good job, Sport. Way to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God.

  8. “Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.”

    That’s funny. When I think of this verse, I think of Fundyland. πŸ˜‰

    1. Hmmm… so, logically speaking, doesn’t that mean that Darrell should stop showing us these websites? Maybe “they’ve” been right all along, and he’s just out to corrupt us all! πŸ˜›

  9. Yeah, thanks USA for invading us with your wonderful fundamentalists!!!! πŸ™„

    LOL…. well at least now you know for yourselves that the Canadian version of fundie is every bit as crazy as your own :mrgreen:

    1. oh, and for the record, my life (mind) had been infiltrated and controlled by American IFBism since I was 2 years old, until about 4 years ago!!!!

      Thanks a lot! 😈 Can you guys keep your “whackjobs” at home!?!? πŸ˜₯

      1. I cannot seem to find a name or anything associated with this site. The About section doesn’t really contain much information.

        However, some of the articles are written from a US point of view. Referring to the US Constitution as “The Constitution of this great land” etc.

        It may be that this site is written by one of our exports. :mrgreen:

        1. After a little digging, I found the mainstay of the site to be Pastor Jason Barlow. He is not from Canada, but from Greenville, North or South Carolina.

          On closer examination, his periodical seems to be a digitized version of David W. Cloud’s O Timothy magazine.

          This is him here.

          http://kjvpure.org/kjvpure/BadBibleSchools.htm

          In all honesty, I think they took ContendForTheFaith.ca because .com was taken.

        2. Yes, it is “Pastor Jason Barlow” behind the website… an American transplant. I’ve been searching for info, but beyond this I can find nothing on the guy. Although a few years back, I remember hearing his name going around my ex-IFB circle. πŸ™„

          Sorry, that’s all I’ve got. 😈

        3. Obsessive/Compulsive Alert!

          So after embarrassing myself with my terrible internet research skills, I went on a search…
          And found a-plenty.

          I found his flickr account, and from there found the church in Kincardine where he was a youth pastor in 2009, heard his sole sermon there – a farewell sermon to that church on January 3, 2010 – located his ordination sermon preached by chief KJVO nutbar D.A. Waite…

          From there he appears to have retreated from public life, and devoted his time to self-publishing books through Lulu, and writing this website.

          Hope this helps!

        1. πŸ˜€ ROFLOL ahahahahaha…. give back Gretzky and maybe we’ll consider reeling in Bieber!

          Personally, I’m no Bieber fan… but, hey! ❗

  10. Well at least they mentioned carnal literature. I always wondered why they got onto men for watching ‘adult’ videos but women could read porn all the day long and no one seemed to care. Wonder if some preacher found his wife’s secret stash?

  11. I purposefully proof text sometimes in my College and Career Sunday School class. Often things like this list Darrell has supplied for our perusal. Regularly, it is something I heard during my residence in Fundystan. My hope is that someone in my class, many of which also had residency status in the ‘stan, will call me out on it. If they don’t, I back up and ask them what I just said, and what the passage I just cherry-picked a phrase from actually is talking about. This usually leads to a discussion, instead of the normal oration.

    One of the first things I taught when I took the class was what a proof text was, and how to spot it. Our church is Independent Baptist, but I try to keep our group from being typical IFB.

  12. As usual, the issue isn’t that the verses aren’t good verses or that they can’t teach us anything when properly applied, it’s that they’re taken so wildly out of context and applied in such ludicrous ways that the list of proof texts is completely useless.

    Take in point Psalm 101:3, the one about setting no wicked things before your eyes. In context, it’s a lovely sentiment from David, saying to God that he is choosing to focus on the things of God rather than on the works of evildoers. It’s not a command or even a suggestion. It’s about David and David alone. Now, a person could be inspired by this and make a similar commitment. But to twist it out of context into some sort of admonishment against going to a movie theater… that’s just absurd.

    (And for the record, I do think it’s good for Christians to avoid watching or reading material that glorifies sin. That’s just common sense. But that doesn’t mean it’s a sin to read non-Christian literature or listen to music that–my word!–has a beat!)

      1. Reminds me of a joke (that I have updated a tad bit for this website):

        Renowned athiest Richard Dawkins and standard issue science-hatin’ Biblical literalist fundie preacher go into a restaurant. (See, it’s supposed to be a bar but you know a fundie preacher would never go in there.)

        The waitress steps up to the table and says, “what would you like to drink?” Mr. Dawkins winks at the waitress and says “H2O.” The fundie preacher thinks “oh my, that sounded scientific and impressive. I want to impress the waitress too becuase I like her boobies.” So, the preacher gives the boobies one last look and says “I’ll have H2O too.”

        By the end of the meal, the pastor is dead.

  13. Dear Darrell:

    You should laugh.

    On Being Contentious for the Faith …

    Several ages ago, a summer camp for Christian kids promoted an agenda similar to that found on the linked website. That camp also had an annual tradition of selecting one course that would be sung at chapels, campfires, meals and the like.

    One year, the song selected was, β€˜Standing on the Promises,’ [see http://tinyurl.com/2xdlx4 ].

    It happened that one little rinky-dink camper [he was 12 at the time] wrote alternative lyrics to be sung with the same tune. It went like this:

    Handing out the rulebook, your big fat yoke!
    Writing up the standards for you lesser folk.
    Every little misdemeanor we will note
    We are the Pharisees!

    I am ho-ly, holier than you will ever be.
    I am ho-ly! I am a Pharisee!

    To the staff’s consternation, this caught on, was learned by all the little campers, and was sung with more zest than the original words.

    Christian Socialist

  14. I guess that I am ok because all of the stuff that I do isn’t carnal, so it must be ok.

    Btw, is his wife the only one that has a last name, because that is how it appears in their bio.

    1. I didn’t notice the last name thing, but I did notice that “Wife” appears to be a title. Pastor Jason and Wife Jessica – thinking he might have a problem with any other men calling her by that title 😯

  15. Oh wow- I KNOW THIS GUY!!!!

    This particular “pastor” got saved a few years ago (maybe 6 or 7?) and attended the same IFB church I used to attend. He quickly realized it wasn’t up to his wise and mature standards and started up his own thing with his family. He and I apparently left the same church for very different reasons…

    wow.

    PLEASE do not judge all Canadian Christians by this guy! We’re not all crazy :]

        1. yup… you win! Sadly, your handle gives me no clue as to who you are.
          However, there is a good chance we are related πŸ˜†

        2. Haha! Actually, I was one of the minority πŸ˜›
          I was the girl in your enormous graduating class. That should narrow it down a touch.

          Fancy meeting you here!

    1. {facepalm}Seriously??? πŸ™„ 😳 I’m embarrassed that he even brought it up!

      So what is his “godly music” preference… Gregorian chants?! 😈

  16. “Thou shalt not steal”. When you gamble, you and your fellow participants agree to place a bet on the outcome of a game beforehand. How does this equal theft? Stealing is taking something that does not belong to you without the other person’s permission. If gamblers know they might lose, and are willing to risk their money, in my opinion this isn’t theft.

    “Abstain from all appearance of evil”. Social dancing, going to movie theaters, watching secular movies, reading secular books, etc. ONLY appear evil to those who deem them evil in the first place. To non-fundamentalists, these things don’t appear evil at all – they appear fun and enjoyable! Gracious!

    “…All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” Excuse me, but if you follow the proof-texting method, you’re being brought under the power of those who do it. You’re letting them tell you what to believe instead of using your own judgment and intellect to make decisions.

    1. Especially since “all appearance of evil” doesn’t mean remotely what they make it mean here! I grew up under the bondage of this verse and my mother, God love her, still thinks it means that, to maintain our good testimony, Christians have to avoid doing anything that might even seem to be evil, when it actually means something more like, “Avoid every form/kind/type/variety of evil (prophecy or teaching),” since it’s in the context of discerning false prophecy or false teaching.

      I think it’s the single most abused verse in the whole Bible.

  17. I’ve already shared my fave prooftext, Mat. 5:28: “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart,” which proves that those skanky harlots were deliberately enticing men, since that word “with” implies consent. So the women were totally as guilty of doing the mental mambo as the men were.

    1. I remember being taught that we were responsible to dress modestly lest we cause men to lust, but I don’t remember ever being told that if a man lusted after me, I’d committed adultery with HIM. What a twisted, pernicious application of that verse.

      1. Dear pastor’s wife:

        During the middle ages [my BJU days], female students could wear shorts behind their dormitories [where they wouldn’t be seen] on hot days. When one of the dorms needed repairs, that bit of mercy was [predictably] rescinded.

        I was accosted by a girl who knew that she could vent safely around me. She was absolutely livid!

        ‘They said the construction workers complained! Men who never see inside a church complaining about our wearing shorts! Do you believe that? Do you? Do you?’

        I told her that I believed she should control her temper. ‘WHY,’ she demanded with rising fury.

        ‘Because you need to save something for what is coming …’

        ‘Which is?’

        ‘Potiphar’s evil wife … even now I feel it coming! Can’t you? Men always complain when women are underdressed …’

        ‘Aaarrrrrguh!’

        I have many memories of my BJU days. Those moments with friends are what I remember best.

        Christian Socialist

  18. 1 Thess 5:22….ahh the proof text that KJV onlyers often so use and misinterpret. The best translation is “every kind of evil” which is far different from simply anything that anyone might possibly take the wrong way and think is evil. One cannot personally be responsible for someone else’s judgmental misconceptions.

    1. Dear FormerFundy:

      I heard tell of a 400+ pound pastor who preached a fiery message on the sin of sideburns.

      Afterward one of his parishioners asked him if he ever knew of a guy who died midlife because he had long sideburns. Mildly, the pastor replied that he couldn’t recall that happening.

      He was then asked if he’d ever heard of someone dying midlife because they were 200 pounds overweight. 😯

      Christian Socialist

      PS: I have a full beard. And several times a year, I’m asked by young children if I am Santa Claus.

  19. An alert SFL reader sent me a link to contendforthefaith.ca, wherein I learned that Canadians have their own crazy fundamentalists. Who knew?

    I did! Perhaps it was the “Prepare To Meet Thy God!-Amos 4:12” billboard on the rural highway I saw in southern Manitoba. Southern Manitoba has some very conservative religion. Lots of old school mennonites. The modern Mennonites are very cool with a peace/social justice focus.

  20. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

    They do realize that Paul was talking about fornication and not alcohol right ?( drinking Elmer T. Lee while typing)

  21. At Hephzibah House, Ron Williams didn’t allow us to celebrate Christmas b/c of these verses. We weren’t even allowed to open Christmas presents that were sent to us.

    Jeremiah 10:1-10:

    This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” 6 No one is like you, O LORD; you are great, and your name is mighty in power.

    1. He thought those verses were saying that Christmas trees were/are pagan. He just loved to suck all of the joy out of our lives! And anything he could do to wield power over that place just gave him great delight. He is truly a sick man.

      1. *headdesk*

        I hate this kind of stuff. What, fundies don’t have enough scapegoats and vendettas already?

        I mean, nothing screams “Christmas trees are evil” quite like a PASSAGE ABOUT IDOLS. If I don’t carve my Christmas tree with my chisel or fasten it with hammer and nails, does that mean I’m ok? Or what if it’s a fake tree? Does that fall under the “appearance of evil”? πŸ™„

  22. As a Canadian, I think it might be my duty to apologize to you for shipping fundamentalism. I know that one of the conferences to decide the doctrines of fundamentalism was known as the Niagara Conference held in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario (one of the earliest parts of Upper Canada). So, yeah, sorry about that.

  23. A little late here – but just stumbled across this. I also know this pastor & wife very well. Also very familiar w/ the small IFB church that he & his wife were married at & attended until he separated his family from it — and for some very petty reasons. There is a whole lot more to his story. “Vicious” is the only word I can think of to describe it.
    And wow did it make me happy to see comments from “free at last” and “koolADE” — yay for finding freedom — SO COOL to see ppl breaking free from IFB chains. I will be sharing this link w/ a secret group that I am a part of — we are all free survivors of the IFB brainwashing.

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