149 thoughts on “Post-Graduation Reality”

      1. You get a free combo meal from Chick Fil A complements of Darrell.

        J/K.

        I never knew what a Chick Fil A was until I moved to the East Coast. I don’t like their food that much. Wisconsin didn’t have this restaurant but it did have Culvers which makes great chocolate shakes.

        Is this seriously where graduates go to work?

        1. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

          “I don’t like their food that much.”

          *head spinning* Wow, mominator, that’s akin to saying you don’t like Krispy Kreme donuts, or puppies, or kittens, or rainbows.

          I’ll pray for you. :wink: :smile:

        2. Kreine-

          Thanks for the prayers. I need all I can get cause I haven’t been to church for almost a decade! Do we have a backslidden smiley face :?: :twisted:

          Sorry, I’m a Dunkin Donuts kinda gal. :razz:

        3. I’m a Dunkin Donuts kinda gal. :razz:

          Thanks for the prayers. I need all I can get cause I haven’t been to church in 9 years!

        4. @ Mominator: Chick-Fil-A is popular with IFB churches in our area because they are very accommodating with teens who want to be off for Wed PM and Sat church duties. Plus, they are closed on Sundays, so no conflicts there.

          I don’t know many college graduates working there, but many youth from IFB Churches work there.

        5. I’m officially disassociating with all the non-Krispy Kremers. You’re on my list, and there is no way off it!

        6. I’ve spent the day driving from central Georgia to Wisconsin. Dinner was at Culver’s in Bloomington, Ill. I sure wish we had some fried curds in my area.

          I like Chick-Fil-A also. Both favorites of mine.

        7. Krispy Kremes over hyped???? I must now separate from you, as your doctrine is clearly compromised.

          I’ll pray for you.

  1. This is so true. I “did” my ten years in Christian School Hell, and now I’ve been happily teaching in the “wicked” public school system for ten years. I’ll let you in on a little secret, it was incredibly more wicked in the Christian school. :roll:

    1. My 13-year-old daughter has been called a slut, a whore, and a lesbian by other kids in her Christian school (non-fundy). I didn’t even know what those words meant when I was her age. :sad:

      1. So sad, my heart hurts for her. We don’t put up with that in our school system. There is so much compassion for those who are different or more needy. Mean words and actions are just not tollerated. When I was in the Christian school it was the norm. Anyone who was different or not favored was treated horribly and it started from the top down.

      2. In the “Christian” school we had our son in it was the same way. The kids were BRUTAL to each other. Our older kids were in public high school for a couple years and never faced anything like it. I think the kids in the Christian schools are much meaner than the public school kids for some reason.

        1. I had the same experience. Fundy Christian high school and the kids were horrible to each other.

          The nicest kids in the school were the evil Lutherans whose school only went to 8th grade, so they transferred to our school for grades 9-12.

      3. Coincidentally, so I was. In my “Christian” school, at the age of 12, 25 years ago. *sigh*

      4. We have the same problem in our Christian (fundy) school. The kids are horrible to each other, and I break up fist-fights at least once a week. No one ever gets in trouble or suspended. As long as the parents have money or good political connections, anything goes. I have kids in tears at least daily. The worst that happens is they get worthless demerit slips, but nothing ever comes of that. I really hope that your daughter is able to find a safe haven from that baloney.

        1. That is one of the reasons we decided to homeschool. (There are many other reasons, but this was a prime one.) I used to be a teacher (in a Christian school) and just couldn’t believe the things I saw and dealt with on a daily basis. We have worked with teachers in public and charter schools and have met some really wonderful people in that scary school system outside the cult. Who knew?

        2. She’s going to the public high school in the fall. We’re a little nervous because she doesn’t have any friends there, but we’re praying that she makes some. (Her best friend at the Christian school is going to a different public school.)

      5. It took the thread here to finally remind me just why I never told anyone at church about the verbal bullying I received in public school.

        I was physically bullied in church preschool, at church children’s choir, and in Sunday. School.

        Why would I have had a reason to think they’d care about something that was only words?

        As it was, I got the vibe from them that my prayer to receive Christ couldn’t have really ‘taken’ because God wouldn’t let things like that happen to kids who were really Christian. And kept not ‘taking’, because it kept happening.

        There’s something profoundly wrong with a system that encourages (knowingly or unknowingly) a kid to doubt their salvation or God’s willingness to supply it simply because of classmates’ jeers.

        1. I’m so sorry, megaforte84. I thought it was bad enough that “Christian” kids were getting away with bullying, but to hear that the recipient was then BLAMED for it and accused of not even being Christian? That’s outrageous. If ANYONE’S Christianity should be called into question, it should be the kids who are violating the Great Commandment.

        2. They didn’t say anything outright, and they probably didn’t even know. It’s just that our church was rather heavy in the youth department on God Protects His People theology without recognizing just what a 10-year-old will do with that.

      6. I had horrible experiences in “Christian” schools with bullying, poor academics, uneducated teachers (my 7th grade teacher’s terminal degree was a GED), and just general stupidity, and I attended 5 of them, at my parents’ wishes. There is no way in God’s green earth I would pay for my kid (if I had them) to go to a “christian” school. The price is more than the parents’ finances.

        1. I had my children in a Christian shool. It was small and they din’t have the kind of problems you and others have mentioned.
          The point I would like to make is that going to a Christian school doesn’t make you a Christian any more than going to McDonaldz makes you a hamburger. The Bible say if we are a Christian, we will have the fruits of the Holy spirit & we will be known by our action. Children that bully and pick on others would not fit my defination of Christian. I know of many parents that put their problem children in Christian or private schools, in the hopes they will help fix their problems. So the school my be a Christian school, bur that doesn’t mean the pupils are Christians.

      7. Well, I knew what they meant at that age….thank you very much Dr. Bob Jones Jr. and Dr. Bob Jones III. :*(

    2. Mark me as incredibly naive; I am astounded to read these things about the schools run by churches. I was never in a Christian school, and I always though I had perhaps missed out. In public school (high school), we had other kids dislike us and throw things at us, but that was about it. We didn’t make a fuss about it, but we would meet to pray before school, and that apparently bothered some.

      But the Christian school stories make this sound incredibly tame. I’m just sitting here in amazement.

      The fundie church I used to be in had a school, but I never heard any tales of kids fighting.

    3. 13-year public school teacher here.

      I think the problem is that teenagers, as a group, (or people in general) tend to react poorly to individuals who deviate from the norm.

      In public schools where you have even a little diversity, you have so many different types of kids mixing that “the norm” is very broadly defined. Hence, people who deviate from it don’t stand out as easily.

      To contrast, in more homogeneous environments (like Christian schools) “normal” is defined more narrowly, making even small deviations from it appear HUGE.

  2. I’m not sure if a fast food place would want to hire a FundyU graduate over a high school graduate. This brings back memories of the unfortunate, un-Biblical “counsel” I received, such as “God can’t use you if you don’t go to Bible college to get trained”; “God needs manpower, and you are wasting your life if you don’t go into full time service”, etc. That said, there are a lot of people with degrees from all kinds of schools who are having a rough time finding employment right now, or have had to make some major cutbacks due to salary reductions.

  3. chick-fil-a is the dream employer for young fundies . . you’ll make a 50% higher salary than you did at your on-campus job at Fundy U, AND you never have to work on Sunday! Plus, as a Chick-Fil-A employee, you get to be super-ultra polite and say things like “may I refresh your beverage?” and “it’s my pleasure to serve you today!” Thus, your Fundy U training in how to be smarmy and insincere will be put to good use :idea:

    1. This ^^ is so true and full of win that I very nearly spit Mountain Dew onto my keyboard at my job (Christian School). I guess I still don’t have all of the fundy out of me yet.

    2. Of all employers, I would expect Fundy U to not make their employees work on Sundays. Some jobs perhaps cannot help it, but put this down as another surprise… I thought it was only evil worldly employers that made employees work on Sunday.

  4. Well, look on the bright side. At least you won’t have to work Sundays if you work for Chick Fila or however you spell it. They’re a Christian owned company so they are closed on Sundays. You’ll be able to go to church for both services on Sunday and won’t be able to use the excuse that you had to work. :mrgreen:

    I’ve never eaten at Chick Fila since there’s never been one near me. :sad:

  5. I went the Christian school route! Then again, my degree was in education so it was what I wanted to do. I did not, however, want to be told how to dress when outside the doors of my home. My husband went to the pastor of the church whose Christian school it was to ask permission for me to wear pants while biking.

    I still love discussing literature from a Christian worldview, but I do NOT appreciate the low salary, oppressive rules, and often hypocritical student body, hiding their viciousness behind a thin veneer of apparent virtue.

    1. Preach it sister!Or the calls into Pastor’s office when he senses you have “lost your joy”.

      1. That will preach! Or the call into pastor’s office because one of the parents called to complain that she saw you at Walmart Friday night and didn’t approve of your outfit that no one at school thought anything was wrong with…………………..I love my school, I love my school, I love my school!

    2. “thin veneer of apparent virtue”

      as a Christian School proponent said to me once, “you get what you honor” – agreed, but didn’t think his school was honoring what he thought it was honoring.

      Of course that thin veneer very nicely complemented his own pastoral position which was protected against charges of authoritarian dictatorship by his yes men papering it over with a thin patina of legitimacy

    3. That “thin veneer of apparent virtue” is called “a good activity report” in many churches.

  6. I graduated from a Christian college that was fully accredited and not fundy. Know where I work? A parts store. I don’t have any problems with going to an accredited Christian school but for heaven’s sake, whatever you do, don’t get any kind of Bible degree!

    1. I don’t think any college should offer a Bible degree. If you want to go into the ministry, get a marketable degree, and then go to seminary (any decent-paying church is going to want that, as will most mission boards) and be able to pay for it. It just doesn’t seem very Christian to sell an unmarketable degree.

      1. +10 The graduate-level seminary degree is a better preparation (in terms of getting employment) than a Bible degree.

  7. Unfortunately, it’s “Post-Graduation-Reality” for a lot of people – - faire wyfe has multiple degrees (Masters in English History & Technical Communications), and is working part-time in a private school @ minimum wage… :cry:

  8. Chick-fil-a was my first job in high school. I was fired for a rumor of me with a guy in the walk in cooler :shock: it never happened. Later on I went on to become the cow. Moo

  9. Yep they get to have a “big future” at Chick F’ing A. :evil: Then during the week the MOG can smirk at them and laugh as he sees them in the drive through knowing that the joke is on them.

    Fundy U grad? Hope you know how to dig ditches or flip burgers.

      1. Hopefully at least your MOG isn’t in your local area to be able to drive by and feel satisfaction when seeing “a defector” get his “just due”. :evil:

        1. I was surprised to find that it pays fairly well. Then I started doing the job and I found out why it pays well. Standing up on cement for eight hours in varying weather is hard enough. On top of that you have to deal with nearly intolerable boredom. I listened to a LOT of books on CD!

  10. My FB feed is full of people exulting over their graduation from Fundy U.
    I feel sorry for them, not happy. They are going to go through the gradual stages of realization:
    1. Being fawned over by a fundy church so that they think they are qualified to be an astronaut or President.
    2. Deciding to go get a real job so they apply for their dream job.
    3. Getting more and more pissed off as the truth gradually dawns on them.
    4. Lowering their sights and shooting for lower and lower jobs, only to find out that they aren’t qualified for them either.
    5. Finally land a job that they hate. Sit there thinking that if I had just come straight to this job instead of Fundy U I would have been running the place by now.
    6. Start browsing the websites of real colleges.
    7. Start over a square one.

    1. Sadly I think my SIL is going to find those things out really soon. She has a worthless BJU diploma that she thinks is gold. I tried to warn her but some folks are determined to learn things the hard way. :mad:

    2. I think reality set in for my brother that his BJU PCT degree was worthless when he moved to Canada, and found out he was only qualified for 3 jobs in the town. They were at a fish packing plant (packing fish into boxes to be frozen), a dog food factory (watching the kibble-bagging machine), and a lumber mill. He hates fish, despised feeding dogs when he was a kid, and hated cutting wood. So he got a job with the city, sorting recyclables. He hated that job, since it also dealt with something he hated. He’s now a bill collector. He hates that job, too. Oddly enough, he still loves the Kool-Aid, and has BJU faculty members on his FB friends whose classes he never took. Go figure.

    3. @Apathetic or whatever: Or worse of all, they decide the Lord told them to go ahead back to the fundy U to get their “Masters” in the same field… :sad:

  11. Sadly, this isn’t an uncommon reality for a lot of people. I didn’t graduate from a fundy u (or any u, for that matter), and I was able to get a good job in banking 15 years ago. In fact, at the time, I was earning more than my husband is NOW.

    And he has his (non-fundy-u) college degree.

    The economic reality is tough out there, but people should not be making it even tougher by sending their kids to crap schools.

  12. Got to say, I love their food. I’m pretty sure there’s crack in the chicken marinade.

    Who remembers begging for Chick-fil-A as a kid because they had Adventures in Odyssey toys in their happy meals? :lol:

    1. My wife craved Chick-fil-a when she was pregnant with our 11 month-old. I didn’t mind, I got to have it, too.

      1. Isn’t it odd to be pregnant with an 11-month old? (I thought they were born at 9 months – :mrgreen: )

    2. Actually there *is* crack in the breading — it’s called MSG.

      But I did love me some Adventures in Odyssey kids meals! Good times…

      1. MSG makes me sick. There are other things that also make me sick. To avoid getting sick I stay as far away as possible from these things.

  13. When I was in college (Penn State University) and I got saved at a Fundy church, I heard over and over the bible college mantra. After a few months, I went to my campus pastor (He was in the Church of Christ) and said I was thinking of leaving PSU to go to Bible college. He said “I think you should finish your degree here, then if you want to go to Bible college, do it. So, if you finish Bible college, get in ministry or not, and decide its not for you, you have something to fall back on. He knew that the Bible kawledge degree was not good for anything outside that particular denomination (IFB). Anyway, I listened, finished and I am so glad. It turned out a little like what he said.

  14. Went through the same wringer, shuffling on to a well-meaning, but very low paying Christian school position. And even that was due to a “connection.” One of the hardest years of my life.

    Not entirely Fundy U’s (PCC’s) fault, but they are geared to have you graduate into a staff position and work there on campus. That’s the ideal. Or you can feed into their network of A Beka endorsing Christian schools, via Recruitment. Also lovely. It’s like a pitcher plant of sorts — an idea that came from God, indeed.

    Then again, I can thank them for the part they played in my path. After the umpteenth time wondering how’d I’d have enough money to make it through the week, I had a “WHAT THE #$@?” moment, moved out West, and stepped into a one-time opportunity to work for the corporate wing of a “fruit company.” :wink: Had it not been for the “unique” “preparation” that PCC provided, I’d not have been motivated to seek something better.

    A circuitous route, not easy, but something I can’t say I regret, given the way God unfolded it. But that shouldn’t have to be the story. Finding gainful employ should not be so often *in spite of* Fundy U.

    1. I love this kind of story and I’m glad everything worked out for you. Sadly, some bible college grads don’t have the courage to make a big change after the “WHAT THE #$@?” moment. After being reared in fundyism, the world is a very scary place. It is often easier to stay put where it is “safe” even if it means taking on a paper route and dining on Ramen Noodles. By the way, I’m typing this on your company’s “fruit.” :wink:

      1. For what it’s worth, I still dine on Ramen (the Korean brand, Nong Shim – best stuff ever – the Cadillac of instant noodles). But it’s nice to do so as a luxury now and then, rather than out of necessity every weeknight.

        1. My husband cooks the best noodle bowls (grilled pork, thai basil, fresh veggies..mmmmmm) so we’ll start looking for this brand. Thanks for the tip!

          (Yes, my husband cooks from time to time. His ability to navigate the kitchen must brand us as apostate.)

  15. WOW. I was just thinking about this on my way to work this morning. I have a friend who works at Chick-fil-a, even though he has a Bible degree from BJU. He’s 32. I know he has aspirations for better things, but I wish he wasn’t waiting so long for those things to happen.

  16. Every once in a while, I (usually through FB) meet up with a fellow Fundy U student who’s doing really well. For a while, I wondered how in the world they managed to make so much money, but then it usually turns out that their parents have background in something that they taught them (financial planning, real estate), and they’re doing nothing that they studied at Fundy U. I’m kinda jealous, to be honest. I’m back in school. :mad:

  17. Of course, it depends on the position you have at Chick-fil-a. My friend is marketing director at a Chick-Fil-A. Of course, her degree is at a state U. And her job is pretty sweet!

  18. I’ll be excited when our new stand alone Chik-fil-A with a drive thru opens in our area. Previously, I’d have to go to the mall to get my fix.

    1. Hi I am an Old Timer and live in New England And NEVER heard of the place Chick Fil A. Whats going on? I even traveled through the South when I was working. Mostly in Miss. Ala. and Ga. I ate at a lot of resturants and never once heard of this chain. Are they something new? Or only around Bible Schools?

      1. You could google Chick Fil A and find their locations. I believe there was one in Toledo which we could’ve gone to when I lived in Michigan but we rarely got down to Toledo. Now I live in Canada and Chick Fil A hasn’t made it up here.

      2. It’s a restaurant chain started by Truett Cathy in Hapeville, GA, a small town just north of the Atlanta Airport. He invented a way of pressure cooking a fried chicken breast. It is EXCELLENT! The original was a small diner called The Dwarf House, because of the small size of the building. He later branched into a local mall with the chicken sandwich and the rest is history. The fast food restaurants are called Chick-Fil-As, while the sit-down part of the chain are Called Dwarf Houses. Mr. Cathy also has three diners called Truett’s as well as a pizza place.

        He taught fourth grade Sunday School at First Baptist Church in Jonesboro GA (Not fundy. A good church) for many years. He has a children’s home (NOT like Rolloff homes) and contributes to a lot of charities in the area, religious and not. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about him. A true pillar of the community.

  19. I went to PCC for 1 year, I found out they were not accredited (that move taught me to checkout EVERYTHING beforehand, they told me they are looking into it (in 1991), yea right!) and I transferred to a place that took my credits and was accredited. I now work at a provincial university in their IT department. If the school I came from was not accredited, there is no way I would have ever been hired. Its just that simple.

  20. Just a little tidbit of information here. The Chick Fil A in my son’s area announced they were hiring a new cow. He is in (non-fundy) Bible college and decided to go “audition.” The line for that one position was around the building. Evidently Chick Fil A is a good place to work (according to all the Bible College graduates in that town)

  21. It’s funny. I quickly learned that my accredited, associate’s degree would get me nowhere with employers and that motivated me to get my bachelor’s. How much less would a non-accredited degree be worth? I think you nailed it Darrell.

  22. My son and my new daughter in law are walking at Hyles this Friday. They intend to be on the mission field, they know it doesn’t necessarily count outside of church. I’m the one having a hard time sometimes, because my son also wanted to become a commercial pilot, and right now he so won’t be a pilot. But, it’s never too late, for now they are exactly where they want to be. What can I say, I raised him that way….
    BUT: BIG CHANGE – MY YOUNGER SON WILL BE GOING TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL AFTER THE SUMMER FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE!! HE’LL BE IN ELEVENTH GRADE. FRANKENMUTH HIGH SCHOOL, not our district, I’m still going to have to drive…. :smile:

  23. There is a semi-famous quote:

    “The advantage of a classical education is that it enables you to despise the wealth that it prevents you from achieving.”

    I think the same could be said of a Fundy U education.

  24. I know a young women who just gradeated from BJU with a Master’s in Bibilical counseling, her undergrad, as it were, is from that wonderful place called Falls Baptist School of Ministry, a VanGeldern ministry. (Darrel, you need to do a blog on this one). And where, pray tell, does she have a job? Ah yes, the local bank!–and by local, I mean Greenville. Can’t leave the bubble! i am sure she will give out doses of great counseling wisdom with that cash!

    1. I too have been surprised not to see more BCM stuff on here – probably because their brand of fundy is so unusual to many northern Baptist fundamentalists, but wouldn’t even be a fart in a hurricane in the crazy that is southern fundyland (the northern exception being Michigan, because so many southerners transplanted there to work for auto companies, and brought their brand of crazy fundamentalism with them)

    2. My hubby went to FBC after he got saved.

      They had a revival meeting called “Holiness Conference” while he was there in the mid 90s as a new Christian. You know, how to have standards and such. He showed me the tapes and one was on women wearing pants. We both laugh about that stuff now.

      The VanGelderens can do no wrong and I got the vibe that he is worshiped there.

      Here is a link to the “Holiness Conference 2013″ – Make plans to attend!

      http://holinessconference.org/main.html

      I didn’t think you could become holy just by attending a conference. Who knew?! :shock:

  25. Why can’t that chain realize that not everyone likes chicken? I get dragged there with family and don;t have anything to eat; why can’t they offer at least a burger? I mean, even Red lobster has steaks. I can’t even get a side dish because their fries are disgusting.

    1. Easy – they’d have to advertise with a cow saying “Forget everything I said about chicken. Cowmeat is amazing! Eat more burger!”

        1. Interestingly enough, there are many Chick-fil-A restaurants here in Georgia that do have burgers and even steaks on the menu. Chick-fil-A was brough into existence here in Atlanta, and several of the (Corporate owned) stores (14 of them, if my memory serves me correctly) offer much more extensive menus and several beef selections, as well as a full-service dine in option. I worked for one of these restaurants for 7 long years. I actually got in trouble with my general manager’s wife once because she overheard a conversation I had w/ a customer at one of my tables. The customer had just asked me if the burgers listed on the menu were any good, and I said something along the line of “Have ya seen our advertisements?? Ya know, the ones with COWS on them?? Ordering the mascot can’t be a great idea, really.” Mostly just in jest, because the burgers are actually pretty good. (I was told the party line was, “The burgers are good, but the chicken is better.”) LOL

  26. I’m glad I escaped having to go to a Bible college. It was heavily suggested, but my parents had just put my sister through HAC and couldn’t help me. Plus, I just wasn’t that enthusiastic about the prospects. We had BJU and PCC come and recruit every year.

    My family though wasn’t so lucky. My sister is a stay at home mom, which is great for her. She doesn’t really need the degree, unless something happens. Her husband though, intended to become a pastor, and did have a tiny storefront church for a minute. However, he couldn’t make it work and now drives a FedEx truck. He was not able to get anywhere with his degree from HAC. My mom is now facing long term unemployment after the Christian school she was working for closed. Since she is not a certified teacher, nobody will hire her. Even other Christian schools are now requiring certification (at least in California they are). She doesn’t want to work in an “evil” public school and sees no need in becoming certified. I think she feels like she will be selling her soul to the devil if she does it. Even to work at another Christian school.

    My dad was lucky…before getting saved, he earned an engineering degree…then went to Bible college to become a pastor. Well, he’s been in the engineering sector for decades. That Bible degree was worthless for him. He would have made a horrible pastor anyway (sorry, dad :sad:)

  27. Is that the Chick Fil A where Chad Gleiser works in Pennsylvania???? Hide your kids, hide your wife…. :shock:

  28. I get my Jack Russell Chik-fil-A after her specialist appointments. It really doesn’t matter that she’s a dog eating fast food. When an elderly cancer patient wants to eat something, you give it to her. The people at the Chik-fil-A we go to know her now, and always speak to her. She knows the smell of the place, and gets excited when we’re in the dive-through line.

  29. I used to love Chick Fla. Now I REFUSE to eat there because of their support of anti-gay organizations. If my rainbow self ain’t good enough for him, my rainbow money ain’t good enough for him. It will stay in my rainbow wallet.
    Talk about love though. I now shudder at ChickFla because of the politics. However, my mama is dying of Alzheimer’s and LOVES ChickFla. Almost every time we are together, I go buy her ChickFla. I may despise ChickFla but I love her. :???: :sad:

    1. Christina, I feel the same way, but I have to satisfy my CFA cravings every now and then. I usually “flame on” and wear a GLBT t-shirt when I go in there, though- and I usually use a coupon for free stuff.

    2. I agree, Christina. As a Republican and a supporter of gay rights and marriage equality (yes, we can be both :grin: ), I’ve since found that I LOVE Zaxby’s so much more than Chick-fil-A.

      1. Why did you have to go and mention the “Z” place? We don’t have them here in CA. I actually get cravings for the “Z” place. Just thinking about the buffalo chicken fingers makes me want them. Some locations are better than others (with the one on Laurens Rd. in Greenville being the best, and their night shift is better than the day shift). It’s the first place I go when I leave the airport, and the last on my way back to the airport. The only way it could be better would be if they had one IN the airport. And now, I will want the “Z” until I go back to SC in August.

      2. Has anyone here ever heard of a fast food restaurant called Grandys? They used to be in the Oklahoma, Kansas area and specialized in Chicken Fried Steak and mashed potatoes and that sort of thing. They had (I will call them “elderly” here, fully realizing that now I am probably age-qualified for the position) women in print dresses and aprons go around the dining room with iced tea pitchers offering refills on your iced tea and hostessing in a way. My husband and I LOVED that place right after we got married, we got FAT off eating there (Then went back to HAC where we promptly got skinny again) Last time we checked they were no more. (Well, we found one, but it had gotten very “ghetto” and was too dirty to be appealing.)

        1. There used to be Grandy’s in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I don’t know if they’re still there or not.
          Grandy’s chicken-fried steak platters were quite good.

  30. I found this review on a website called studentsreview dot com.

    Male, Class 2000
    Starting Job: Barista

    “… Bob Jones University is not regionally accredited. That is a fact. But when I was at BJU they told me that they were accredited. But they didn’t tell me that they were only accredited by a Bible College accrediting place. But it’s not the same thing at all! And it doesn’t have to do with just going to grad school. It means that if you open up one of those directories of every 4-year colleges in America, BJU is not in there. In the eight months or so since I graduated, my eyes have really really been opened. I have sent out over 100 resumes, and I have only had a 4 interviews and no job offers. I now know that I did not attend a normal college. I mean, I don’t consider BJU to be an actual university. Honestly, I have no interest in debating any of these issues with anyone who is currently at BJU, because they will think that I am bitter. I know this because when I was a student I thought it was terrible how alumni and students complained about BJU. I thought, if they don’t like it then why don’t they just leave? But now I see so clearly that real jobs in the real world require a real college degree. I really wish that someone had explained this to me when I was choosing a college. I wish someone would have said that when you graduate, you are going to have to make a resume that says you went to a college named Bob! And there will be other guys who graduated from schools in the US News Best College magazine. Do you see that now? A college named Bob vs. a college that is in the US News best colleges magazine. Who the heck do you think they’re going to hire for the position?! The truth is, most of the kids who go to BJU are kids like me who came from Christian schools who had never even visited another college before. Also, I didn’t understand why people would call BJU racist. I used to get so mad when i was a student when people would say that. I thought it was so dumb when people would bring up an issue that happened years and years ago. Now I get it. It’s about the reputation of the school you graduated from. And people have actually asked me if I’m a racist since I graduated. Seriously. I’m going to have to deal with that my entire life? If you don’t understand why I am so upset about this, here is another thing. I met Stephen Jones, and he is super friendly. But he has no clue what it is like to go try to find a job. His dad gave him all of his jobs. Why would you go to a college where the president has never had to look for a job? He is totally clueless about what it’s like to find a job in this bad economy. I mean, I spent 4 years of fun and preaching and friends and good food and nice teachers. But I made the mistake of going to some kind of business instead of a real college. Ask yourself why there are so many complaints about how people wish they had not attended BJU. And think about how someday you are actually going to have to get a real job in the real world. My advice: Don’t go to a fake college named Bob. Go to a place that a future employer will respect.”

    1. Female – Class 1997

      “Had difficulty getting into grad school with a BJU degree. The university repeatedly said “our reputation is enough.” Being young, and with parents who didn’t go to college, we took the academy’s guidance counselor’s word (I know better now!) that I would have no trouble. I had high GRE scores, but the grad school of my choice wouldn’t even look at me. I did get into another school, and have a 4.0, but it took years to find.”

    2. Female, Class 2005

      “I can’t get a teaching license because Bob Jones University is not regionally accredited. They did not tell me that tracs accreditation is worthless.”

    3. Male – Class 1993
      Pensacola Christian College

      “This school is not accredited. They told us as young students that this was not important. Now, 19 years later with a career in business and banking I am unable to pursue a MBA.”

  31. Female – Class 2000
    Pensacola Christian College

    “I wanted to get into graduate school, but I had a serious problem applying to anything that wasn’t also an ultraconservative Christian school; and since very few Christian schools have a statistics program, I wasn’t able to find a graduate school.I am currently just taking whatever work I can get and hoping to get a real degree from an accredited school when I can get the money together. My four years at PCC were pretty much wasted. I did learn how to survive in a totalitarian environment; but luckily, PCC did not destroy my faith, as it has for so many other people. My best friend is now an atheist thanks to PCC; but I think this is because he was not able to separate PCC’s brand of “Christianity” from the real Christianity you find if you read the Bible. God is not about rules; remember that.”

  32. AWhat about PCC’s nursing program? What is its accreditation? A girl I know is enrolled in it. Will she be able to find work in any hospital or doctor’s office, or will that degree be worthless? She is such a smart girl.

    1. I am pretty sure that PCC does what my sister’s college did, which is to outsource the nursing part of the degree to the local community college. Because the community college is regionally accredited, she should still be able to sit for her boards.

      1. No. PCC got all the necessary approvals for their nursing program. It was recently ranked as the 4th best in the nation- that includes over huge secular schools like UNC. So, outside control and influence = throwing our pearls to swine, except when it comes to nursing. And then we’ll crow about how wonderful it is to anyone who listens.

  33. With employers it is probably not just about accreditation but the fact that they do not want to take a risk in hiring a fundy who may cause problems by preaching at work.

    1. This is a serious problem in some workplaces. Employers can’t legally ban workers from practicing their religions, but that “practice” can spill over into harrassment of co-workers, or acting so weird that the employee scares off potential customers.

  34. We sent our son to an unaccredited Bible college, but not in order to get him a job. We felt that, since he finished his High School requirements two years ahead of schedule (due to homeschooling) it would be better to build up his faith and give him a good Bible foundation upon which to build his future. This college was close to home and had a good reputation, and gave him an opportunity to have a college experience at a younger age than most kids do. If you go into it not expecting anything more than a Bible education you are less disappointed when you realize you need more than that to move on in life. He graduates in a week at 17 years of age, and we are very proud of him. However we don’t consider his education complete with this degree. I don’t think it was a waste of money, but I wasn’t planning on him using it to get his foot in any doors in the business world either.

  35. As a BJU grad (1986 BS Accounting and not proud of it)I agree with the majority opinion regarding the problems and limitations of fundy/unaccredited schools. However, my experience tells me that once personal skills and job experience are established, then where one received his degree becomes generally irrelevant compared to talent, proficiency, experience and work habits. After all, an asshole with a Ivy League degree is still an asshole. I have never told any of my kids to choose a career based on earnings potential, but instead based on what they believe God would have them do, how they could serve God as a follower of Christ and what they can be passionate about.

    1. I agree with you about the relative unimportance of degree details after the young person has established itself in the chosen field, but things have changed since you (and I) received a degree. Entry-level workers are experiencing more and more scrutiny and there’s a larger focus in hiring and promotion on objective, measurable criteria. An unaccredited degree might be a serious stumbling block for some.
      I also agree with your second point – that the choice of vocation (and therefore prep for a vocation) should be based on the student’s passions, abilities, and the will of God (as expressed in the Gospel). But that has little or nothing to do with the subject of fundy “universities” and the quality of their awards.

      1. I would add that personal work ethic and a commitment to excellence (NOT something FU ever promoted) is far more important than degree. I am a manager and midway through my MBA at a very good school. I work in a warehouse, and have many line workers making $10/hr. with their accredited degrees (mostly music, history, etc., but a few “real” degrees like finance and business). The point is, if you want something -anything – you have to work your ass off for it, no matter where you went to school.

        1. Rather than “real,” can we say “applicable?” I agree with Ms/ Haniver that a music degree represents real work. It just isn’t an applicable glorified trade school degree such as business. Or engineering.

      2. Yes, you’re probably right that times have changed. I suspect the proliferation of online degrees and bogus diploma mills has necessitated employers looking closer at resume education information. My thought on Bible college in general is that the chosen path for such a degree would then be some sort of ministry. I’m not sure what secular employers would value a BS/BA in Bible other than to fulfill the hiring requirement of a 4 year degree. It also seems that college is becoming more about acquiring specific marketable skills (e.g., engineering, accounting, business, education, nursing, etc.), rather than the entire educational “experience”. Of course that is likely due to the ridiculously expensive investment which must be made today and the perceived wants of the job marketplace. With the decline of manufacturing in the US, the marketplace seems to be more polarized between white collar job demanding higher education, greater experience and greater personal sacrifice vs. low-paying, relatively low-skill jobs. It seems many people are left with no choice but to try to start their own business in a highly competitive environment.

  36. I got a history degree from BJU, after initially studying chemistry for a year. I picked both majors because I liked them. (Actually chemistry because I watched NCIS faithfully back then.) I stuck with history because I loved it and still do. I never wanted to go to grad school, because I really am just not into the whole academia thing and I think the whole college system (secular and Christian) needs to be rethought and refocused (2 years of useless busywork needs to be replaced with 2 years of actually mastering what you’re studying.) Anyway, I live in NC, and quite frankly, there’s not a lot of room here for history degree holders if you’re looking for a history-specific job. I’m hardwired to be my own boss, and while I’m right now working two jobs, I do plan on starting a business. My town needs a bridal shop. :)

    On a side note, I do love Chick-fil-a’s chicken strip salads, with the fried strips. The grilled chicken there…tastes odd.

  37. I have a successful white-collar career with my PCC degree. I know of several others making good livings in serious, driven careers with PCC degrees. I also know a guy who is a manager at Chic-fil-A (not because he wants to be.)
    The accreditation thing has NEVER been a problem for me. A lot of my friends have had NO problem because of accreditation. But I know plenty of people who did have a problem, who had to take some weird back-way into their profession, take extra exams, go back to school, etc. And while I haven’t had any problems, I’ve occasionally thought about it, at times felt a twinge of fear that it might be found out.
    My point is this: It’s not a problem for a lot of people. But it shouldn’t be a problem for ANYONE. It’s 2012. It’s not enough to have slick glossies and a firm handshake. Being accredited is basic stuff at this point.

  38. Great post! Unaccredited degrees can really leave you hanging. It’s a lousy economy and having a Bible college or unaccredited degree won’t really help. BJU education grads can’t teach in 27 states – no appeals – unaccredited degree: No teaching certificate. Be educated before you go!

  39. Another problem with religious based colleges, whether they are accredited or not, a student must take religious class and attend chapel services. This is a waste of their time and money.

    One way to reform higher education in the country, is to stop requiring students take classes that are not relevant to their field of study. If a student is a computer science major, they could also take courses related to the field. The student would finish college sooner and with less student loan debt.

    1. The purpose of a liberal arts education is to put out well rounded students who will have some knowledge in different areas. While a strict course of study may be all you need for job skills, it is a poor preparation for life itself. Some knowledge of literature, proper use of English, history, etc. may help keep you from being a complete boor to those around you.

  40. The longer I follow this blog, the more sad it makes me to see what it is and is becoming. I can’t help but wonder if it’s become part of the problem instead of the solution. I agree with most of what it says at the root, but the way it’s said is ugly and unhelpful to building the body of Christ.

    1. “I agree with most of what it says at the root, but the way it’s said is ugly and unhelpful to building the body of Christ.”

      It sounds like you are talking about Fundamentalism.

    2. @JoeR, Yes. Much in Fundamentalism could be described that way. But isn’t the point that we want to be different? What good is coming away from that only to become a different kind of ugly or a different kind of unhelpful for building?

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