Roman Catholics (As Long As They’re Running For President)

Apparently, Rick Santorum today held a campaign rally at Crown College and spoke from behind the pulpit in the sanctuary of Temple Baptist Church.

Normally, Crown College wouldn’t let a Roman Catholic any closer to the platform than the altar but I guess politics trumps religion this time around.

130 thoughts on “Roman Catholics (As Long As They’re Running For President)”

      1. No! Don’t mention JFK around here! Most of us left fundamentalism because of the JFK assassination and chemtrails. Please don’t bring up those two subjects ever again. (At least this is I’m led to believe from reading this blog.)

        1. Speak for yourself!!! I personally left fundamentalism over President Johnson’s handling of the Vietnam War. I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that most people here left for the same reason.

        2. Bah! The REAL reason most of us left Fundyworld was because of Nixon and Watergate. I tell you, somewhere in an underground vault there are secret recordings of Bob Jones Jr. and John R. Rice…along with documents that identify JFK’s REAL assassin.

          The truth is out there!!!!!

        3. I left because of all the crackpot conspiracy theories…

          Well, time to move on! ๐Ÿ˜‰ :mrgreen:

        4. I left when Jill Munroe left, then came back for a while when her sister Kris came on. Eventually though I fell for Kelly Garrett. I’m sorry, what were we talking about?…

        5. I left fundamentalism because of the crazy cancer conspiracy theories. My dad died of cancer, one of my brothers died of cancer and another brother died of a massive heart attack – all before the age of 55. I finally got so sick of people telling us that “you need to lose weight” or “you need to watch what you eat,” “you should stop smoking,” etc., that I left in disgust. Cancer and heart attacks come upon people for no reason at all and it has nothing to do with your lifestyle or what you eat, don’t eat, whether you exercise or don’t exercise, etc. These self-righteous health freaks who insist that you lose 250lbs., give up casual smoking, and watch what you eat are naive. Cancer is just something that happens to people and you have no control over it. I left fundamentalism because of this hyper-Arminien view that we have choices in life and can control what happens to us.

    1. Guess so. And Mitt Romney is Mormon, and he had Dr. Bob’s full endorsement in 2008. ๐Ÿ™„
      (I still roll my eyes everytime I think about that. As if the Republican party was waiting with bated breath just to see who Dr. Bob endorsed. ๐Ÿ™„ )

      1. The old saying about political endorsements is that each one of them is good for one vote (the endorser’s). Sometimes I’m not so sure you can even count on that one vote.

  1. This is not universal. I remember watching clips from Steven “pee against the wall” Anderson opposing those who vote for “the lesser of two evils.” I forget which text led to this exposition.

    1. Pastor_Stephen – Please, around here we like to stick to Ye Olde Pathsโ„ข so the term should be “pisseth”, not pee. You probably got that out of an NIV or something. :mrgreen: ๐Ÿ˜† :mrgreen:

  2. Well, Santorum isn’t a fan of mainstream Protestantism, either, as he famously said in 2008 “.and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

  3. Ok. So I think I’ll just have to post this picture on my Facebook. . . Or link this page. I try not to post too many things like this, since I don’t like arguments with people I know, but this is just too good to not show.

  4. Santorum is about as anti christian as a political hack can get. Love your brother… unless they have brownish skin and live in a country that ends in stan. I guess they’ve changed it to “bomb your brother”.

    1. Love your brotherโ€ฆ unless they have brownish skin and live in a country that ends in stan. I guess theyโ€™ve changed it to โ€œbomb your brotherโ€.

      That description applies to the current President and the three or so before him as well. I guess we’ve been under the leadership of the anti-Christ for a long time now. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  5. Seems I recall this to be the pecking order (and order of election):

    KJV Baptists [The elect]

    All other baptists [elect but led astray]

    All other protestants including Protestants, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Methodists [elect but terribly deluded]

    Eastern Orthodox [hey, at least they ain’t Catholic]

    Catholics […]

    Mormons

  6. Back when Governor Schwartenegger was in office he spoke from the “sacred desk” of Lancaster Baptist during a police officer’s funeral – and even cursed. Another time Congessman J.C.Watts preached an entire Sunday sermon from a modern version Bible. Leadership said nothing at all about it, just how good of a message it was. A WCBC student would have been seriously dealt with – perhaps even expelled – for doing something similar.

    Fundies are definitely respectors of persons.

    1. They also had Presby VP Dan Quayle speak at the grand opening of the first sanctuary at their current location (now called the North Auditorium). I even got to shake his hand. ๐Ÿ™„

    2. Add to that list the former mayor of Lancaster (who was a missionary baptist pastor) and the chief of police.

      And then quantify that by the fact that when Kent Hovind was giving a Creation lecture at a nearby evangelical church in Lancaster and a single college student was found to have attended, this college student was forced to stand in front of the entire college and make apology during chapel.

      I guess “ecclesiastical separation” can be ignored when convenient.

  7. Actually this is a funny subject in my house. My dad will tell me one day that we’re going to be on Santorum’s election campaign (which i’d rather not) cuz he’s a Christian and doesn’t believe in abortion. But then when we watch the debates, Santorum will talk about his faith, and my dad will make a point of the fact that “ACTUALLY he’s a Catholic”. And its the same with Romney except he’ll say “He doesn’t believe in the REAL Jesus”. hahaha and I’m pretty sure he’s just trying to get me to vote Republican this year, an attempt that seems to be failing so far

      1. An interesting subject for psychoanalysis, given that Santorum wants abortion to be a felony and even contraception to be illegal.

        I’m not a psychiatrist, but there’s a book for somebody there.

        1. Actually, Santorum has never said that he wants to ban contraception. That’s an urban legend. I doubt he wants to felonize (sp?) abortion either. Can you provide documentation of this?

          I have no clue whom I’ll vote for; this is the most confusing, depressing election cycle ever. All I know is that I’ll take Anyone But Obama. But, although I have reservations about Santorum, I don’t think it’s quite fair to mischaracterize his views. ๐Ÿ™‚

        2. Rick Santorum on contraception, even within marriage:

          “One of the things I will talk about that no President has talked about before is I think the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea. Many in the Christian faith have said, โ€œWell, thatโ€™s okay. Contraceptionโ€™s okay.โ€ ย Itโ€™s not okay because itโ€™s a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. Theyโ€™re supposed to be within marriage, they are supposed to be for purposes that are, yes, conjugal, but also [inaudible], but also procreative. Thatโ€™s the perfect way that a sexual union should happen. We take any part of that out, we diminish the act. And if you can take one part out thatโ€™s not for purposes of procreation, thatโ€™s not one of the reasons, then you diminish this very special bond between men and women, so why canโ€™t you take other parts of that out? And all of a sudden, it becomes deconstructed to the point where itโ€™s simply pleasure.”

          http://www.boston.com/Boston/dailydose/2012/02/rick-santorum-dangers-contraception/5tz6ifNcUciBAMJuUguIpL/index.html

          He has also spoken favorably regarding the possibility of states banning birth control.

        3. Hi, Phil.

          Where in the passage you quoted does Santorum indicate that he wants to / will impose his personal views re contraception on anyone else? I must have missed that part. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          Also, you casually mention that Santorum has advocated having states ban birth control. Citations, please? Direct quotes actually stating this? Thanks in advance.

          BTW, for the record, Santorum’s personal views re contraception are those of the Catholic Church. They are shared by many Eastern Orthodox as well. And by many Protestants, for that matter. (I rather doubt that the Amish use the Pill.) Up until 1930, in fact, Santorum’s position was the official position of every single church in Christendom, including Baptists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, the whole ball o’ wax. In 1930, at the Church of England’s Lambeth Conference, the Anglicans decided to allow artificial contraception in cases of extreme hardship. This opened the floodgates, and soon all the other churches capitulated to the zeitgeist. Except one.

          All of this can be readily verified via Google. If you want to see how Protestants regarded birth control waaaay back before the 1930 Lambeth Conference, go read Luther on the subject. He makes Santorum look like Sandra Fluke. ๐Ÿ˜€

          But all of this is beside the point. The fact is–Santorum would NOT try to ban birth control. How on earth could he, even if he wanted to? This is the stuff of lurid liberal fantasy.

          No, I am not a Santorum supporter. I honestly don’t know whom to vote for at this point — just Anybody But Obama!

          But I do believe in setting the record straight. Thanks!!

    1. No such thing as a ‘good’ two kingdom’s theology. ‘The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our God, and of his Messiah.’ ๐Ÿ˜€

  8. Santorum should change his name to Sanctimonious. I’m a Democrat, but I dearly hope that Romney gets the candidacy instead of him. To me, Romney is the lesser of two evils.

  9. The IRS might be interested to see this photo. Didn’t think churches were supposed to display political banners, have campaign speeches, etc. without risking their tax exempt status.

    1. Actually, the IRS must not care. I have reached that conclusion lately. I have been following the Republican primaries with some interest and I have lost count of how many times a reporter with the Santorum (and Gingrich) campaign has filed story from a church. I guess it must be one of those things that is technically illegal but really not enforced all that much.

      Another possibility is that they somehow manage to stay within the guidelines by not actually endorsing a candidate and inviting all of the candidates to speak.

      It still seems fishy though.

        1. If Crown College invited all the candidates for President to speak, including Democrats, other parties’ candidates, and independents, I’ll eat my KJV.

    2. That is incorrect. They are merely not allowed to endorse a candidate. Having someone speak is not endorsing a candidate, unless the church distributed pamphlets or gave an introduction that said, “This church endorses [insert candidate here].”

      1. I think you are correct BRB. I’m no expert on tax code, and I may well be wrong about this. However, from what I read on the IRS website, a church’s tax exempt status is not in danger as long as, “no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation.”
        Source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

        From how I read that, I think churches can host candidates, but the church leaders themselves (in their official capacity) cannot advocate that their members vote for specific legislation.

  10. The same scenario is played out every election in my family. Level 1. They have their “ideal” candidate. He would try to end abortion the day he’s voted in, he is pro gun, pro business, pro home school, believes there is an aggressive anti-God campaign to kill all Christians and start the one world order etc. pro everything that they hold dear. All day all night I hear how I should vote for him. The other “so-called” conservative is barely considered a Christian and thinks abortion is ok if it’s in the case of rap or incest. Gasp!! How dare he?! Level 2. Their guy of course does not get the party endorsement. Mr. Other guy compromiser gets the endorsement. They grumble for two seconds and then fully back their party’s guy that they couldn’t stop bad-mouthing. Level 3 is fun. Now they come to me telling me I need to vote for their party’s guy. But Grandma, he believes in abortion and I don’t, and you don’t either.” And suddenly, my grandma (who constantly berates the other party because of their abortion holocaust,)is telling me that her candidate only believes that abortion is ok in these instances. As soon as anyone else from another party would say abortion is ok under those circumstances, she would bemoan the state of our country. But as long as she’s voting out of fear that the candidate from the “wrong” party might win, she’ll vote in anyone as long as they have the right label. And my grandma is very, very, very conservative.

    1. I often think abortion is OK in cases of rap, but that’s probably just my musical tastes getting the better of me.

      Sorry, couldn’t resist. ๐Ÿ™„

    1. Wait, who’s the Muslim? It isn’t Obama if that’s what you are implying. There is zero evidence that he is a Muslim. You could make a better case that he’s got a forged birth certificate. And by ‘better’ I mean you can’t do that either but at least you can come up with a semi-plausible story as long you don’t bother to do any fact-checking.

      As a conservative libertarian, I disagree with much of his political ideology but I call Bull Gipp on the Muslim angle. Stop reading chain emails. /rant

    2. Here is a clip of Obama articulating what Easter is all about. begin at about 3:20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttpa5pD7LK8

      Probably the clearest and most articulate testimony of Jesus’ death, resurrection, and a Christian’s response to it that I’ve ever heard coming from any of the presidents we’ve had (at least all the way to Ford because of my age ๐Ÿ˜› )

      But of course, he must be a Muslim in disguise ๐Ÿ™„ ๐Ÿ™„

      1. From this all we know is that he has at least one speechwriter who knows Christianity. I am not judging one way or another, but this is obviously a written speech, not him speaking from his heart.

        1. You could say the same thing about anyone who makes speeches. Most speakers write out their speeches, or at least talking points.

          I would have guessed that Romney’s speech where he said he loves Michigan because “the trees are the right height” was extemporaneous, except that he’s said the exact same thing now in at least three different speeches. All the pundits are still scatching their heads trying to figure out what he (or his speechwriter) means by that.

    3. Obama’s father was a nominal (apparently mostly non-practicing) Muslim, and his mother seems to have been sort of a Universalist (although both her husbands were nominal Muslims), but Obama is a committed Christian, whatever else you think about him.

      He and his family are regular churchgoers, which was never true of that Fundy saint, Ronald Reagan.

  11. Just for those of you who would like to know. I just got on my facebook and posted a comment on “The Crown College of The Bible” page and I didn’t even have to like their page to do so. I encourage all of you to go let Mr. Sexton know how you feel about this hypocrisy. Of course, I have know idea how long it will stay on their page, but have fun any way, I know I did ๐Ÿ˜† This is what I put on there:

    “As a Baptist pastor, I am deeply troubled that we are letting political candidates who are not Independent Fundamental Bible-Believing KJV Only Baptists behind the pulpits. It is a shame and disgrace to let the pulpit become a place for political advertisement. God’s message has just been cheapened with a stunt like this. Oh, by the way, I hope you enjoy you visit with President Barack Obama this Fall as he runs for re-election.”

  12. I know Santorum is all “oooh, I’m a Really Truly Catholic” but this particular brought-up-RC girl has to wonder . . . if he’s so Catholic, why does he sound like an evangelical fundy?

    1. Because at its core, fundamentalism is more about your view of authority, culture, and women/sexuality than it is about faith and orthodox doctrine. IFB fundies have more in common with Catholic fundies than they do with Protestant nonfundies, IMO.

      1. Very true.

        Moreover, Fundamentalists of any stripe have more in common with each other than with other people of their own religious traditions.

        Look at how much extreme Christian Fundies agree with Wahabi Sunnis and extreme Shiites about. Look at all the similarities between IFB extremists and hard-line Hasidim.

        Last night, I was reading a book containing excerpts of “The Ordinances Of Manu,” an early-Medieval Indian legal code. Total fundamentalism, Hindu flavor, circa 500 C.E.

  13. ๐Ÿ™ I’m disgusted with these pictures any time I see them (the picture itself, not the funny), and it isn’t just fundy churches either. I’m all for Christians being good citizens, voting for who they believe is the best candidate, and keeping up-to-date on current events. But I’m so sick of seeing churches turn into political forums. How can the church teach people those things that matter for eternity when it is obsessed with political leaders that change every few years?

    And as for the politicians themselves… maybe I’m just disillusioned, but anyone who tells me that I should vote for them BECAUSE they are religious or tries to sell themselves to voters based on their religion makes me suspicious. If your religion is just something for you to “sell” to people to get you elected, you clearly don’t take it that seriously. “Vote for me because I’m a Christian!” Ummm… you’re going to have to better then that.

  14. My understanding is Slick Rick’s campaign requested the use of the TBC for this campaign gathering. Dems and GOP both use churches often and it is not illegal and never has been.

  15. Astounding. Isn’t there a quote out there somewhere by the founder of BJU that goes something like, “I’d rather have a n****r (slang for black person) in the white house than a Catholic. I never thought about it this way before, but I guess he got his wish! Maybe we’re due for the Catholic next term.

    1. If the Mormon is the “lesser of two evils” they will vote for Romney. Just like they voted for McCain in 2008. As someone has said, why are there 50 candidates for Miss America and only 2 for president? ๐Ÿ™

      1. There are more than 50 people running for President this year, but you’d never know it from most of the news coverage. 99% of the coverage is about the supposed “front-runners.”

  16. First time poster and former pentecostal. I enjoy the website.

    I want throw out a theory I have on politics/religion. It appears to me that a large segment (I am not saying all) of the evangelical church is morphing into a cult-like entity through politics. I offer as evidence the rigidness(no compromise), paranoia(we are being persecuted), sense of superiority (we need a Christian president). They give off the sense that either you are one of us or you are against us. Romney’s religion appears to make him unacceptable to them. They are ready to overlook faults in their own while magnifying the same faults in others. There is an attitude that somehow government can fix every problem in the country with family values, how that would actually work cannot really be explained.

    I am interested in the opinions of others. Thank you.

    1. Welcome to our motley crew, Simple. Glad to have you aboard!

      In response to your post: Is it any wonder that some evangelicals are beginning to distance themselves from evangelicalism? I’m certain this has been a large part of the impetus behind the Emerging Church movement. These folks look at what evangelicalism is becoming; they cringe and go “Yeeesh.” It’s sad for thoughtful Protestant Christians who are theologically orthodox but feel as though they’re out in the wilderness. ๐Ÿ™

    2. Welcome, Simple!

      And I agree, mixing politics into the church is a sure way to confusion and hypocrisy. It gives rise to this false idea that government (instead of Christ) is going to save people. It also doesn’t bode well for religious freedom if we keep encouraging candidates to run based on a certain religion rather then on what they actually stand for and what they will really try to do for the country.

  17. Crown is dodging their compromise:

    “The Crown College of The Bible: It is important to note that we at Crown College do not support or approve any particular candidate. We were approached about hosting the rally and felt that it would be a good educational experience for our student body to be exposed to.”

    1. Dear Crown College:
      I’m organizing a rally for Dennis Kucinich. Given your policy of hosting rallies for their educational value, without supporting or approving any particular candidate, I know you’ll want to have him address the students from your pulpit. What day next week would be good for you?

      Faithfully yours,
      Gary

    2. I don’t mean to sound snarky, but here goes:
      Dear Crown College of the Bible,
      If you are indeed an institution of higher learning, shouldn’t you know not to end a sentence with a preposition?
      In grammatical concern,
      Paisley

    1. If you can tell any differences between (1) A Rick Santorum rally, (2) A “We Hate Gays and Muslims” conference, and (3) Pretty much any meeting or chapel service at Crown College; then you are much more discerning than I.

  18. I freely admit that I loathe politics and do not even follow the news coverage regarding candidates. (Most politicians give me the Jack Schaap squicky feeling, tbh.) I had no idea who Santorum is until a few weeks ago.

    That being said, from what little I’ve learned regarding Santorum, I’m at a loss to explain the lather the Religious Right is whipping themselves into for him. ๐Ÿ˜•

    1. He’s always been a family-values poster boy. Some people decide to ride those coattails into Washington and then they’re stuck. So if you’re a an evangelical who is divinely mandated to vote for the guy who has the most chance of getting Roe v. Wade overturned, regardless of any other issues or the slim odds of that actually happening, Santorum is your man.

      1. But they will never end Roe v. Wade because that would end one of their biggest rallying cries of the Culture Wars.

        That would mean they would have a harder time getting out the foot soldiers to vote and a harder time getting the donators to write cheques.

        Remember: Always keep your base in a state of fear and trepidation that the enemy is about to storm the gates.

      2. Y’know, you don’t have to be fundy to vote pro-life. Some of us just want to vote pro-life because we have, er, reservations about butchering babies in the womb. Know what I mean? ๐Ÿ˜•

        I am also concerned about the usual social-justice stuff. I think we need humane immigration-policy reform. I’m against the death penalty. I’m not at all sure we can justify wars of foreign adventure, and I hope all our troops come home from Afghanistan VERY soon.

        But, for me, the butchery of innocent pre-born babies outweighs all the rest. It is the ultimate violence, the ultimate child abuse. As Mother Teresa said, a culture that condones killing in the womb can condone any kind of violence.

        Does this make me a fundametalist? No. It just makes me a Catholic. ๐Ÿ™‚

        1. I agree with your moral stance, I just don’t think electing a pro-life president will necessarily do much to end legal abortion. Fundagelicals treat a pro-life presidential candidate as a sort of pro-life nuclear bomb who will obliterate Roe v. Wade and submerge the country under a wave of pro-life fallout. That’s not realistic. A pro-life president may score some incremental gains, but at this point isn’t gonna overhaul the system. So if you vote for a candidate solely on the basis of his pro-life views, you may ultimately pay the price of his incompetence on other issues without actually reaching your pro-life goals.

        2. I agree; one does not have to be a fundamentalist to be pro-life. I have met pro-life atheists.

          I was pointing out the disastrous consequences for the Republicans in the Culture Wars, if Roe v. Wade was actually overturned.

    1. In case you were wondering, Kay:

      Mitt Romney: Mormon (Latter-Day Saints)
      Rick Santorum: Roman Catholic
      Newt Gingrich: Raised Lutheran, then was Baptist, became a Roman Catholic fairly recently. The joke is that Newt changes churches as often as he changes wives.
      Ron Paul: Raised Lutheran (two brothers are Lutheran ministers); his children were baptized in Episcopal Church; Paul apparently attends a Baptist (SBC?) chuch now.
      Barack Obama: Longtime member of a United Church of Christ congregation in Chicago; has attended other churches in Washington.
      Joseph Biden: Roman Catholic. According to one source, Biden is the first Catholic Vice President of the U.S. (I didn’t verify this myself).

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