121 thoughts on “Magic”

    1. @Presbygirl You can have the “first” I’ve gotten mine before. πŸ˜‰

      You might be a fundamentalist if you’ve ever had an evangelist in for meetings whose big draw was slicing a watermelon in half with a Samurai sword while the watermelon was resting on the stomach of a volunteer and then turning around and decrying the “seeker sensitive” movement for using gimmicks to draw people in the door.

        1. I can still vividly remember my older brother getting the privilege of being the one who got the watermelon cut off his stomach. Curse him!!! Oh and there was lots of board breaking, ice smashing, uber cool spinning-wooden-chain-thingy weapons of death flying through the air as well, but I don’t remember anything that was ever preached. Funny how that works.

        2. Our church went to a banquet at another church. I was on the verge of having an anxiety attack. I was unlucky enough to be called up to hold a cucumber in my mouth while the guy chopped it with a sword. As a VERY shy person, I was mortified. Other than the guy calling up a boy from our group who was overweight to do the watermelon thing, I don’t remember anything else.

          Going to call my therapist. 😯

        3. @ Beaker Awesomeness!!!! That was the guy who came to our church. I couldn’t have told you his name until I saw it on the LP. Ahhhh the horrible, horrible fundy memories!

        4. Kung Fu Karate?
          I’m no expert, but I thought that Kung Fu and Karate were different things.

        5. Yoga can be considered similarly. I believe that it can be practiced without the Eastern religous attachments.

        6. My coworkers and I were sent to a motivational seminar that also had pretty heavy Christian overtones. During, the main speaker pulled a random lady out of the audience and psyched her into breaking a board with her hand. It was built up and built up and a so very motivational and the lady broke the board because she Had Faith. The crowd goes wild.

          Later on, my son started taking tae kwon do. I found out that there are all types of breaking boards, including what our teacher calls “kindergarten boards”. We got a few of these to take home and we break them with our heads as a joke for people. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors out there, fellow travelers.

    2. Why do you question him? He’s got The CALLβ„’ so anything he chooses to do as a ministry is OK. It’s just like the priests who work on the Sabbath but are blameless because they are doing the Lord’s work.

      Something like that anyway. πŸ™„ πŸ˜• πŸ™„ (Yoda voice) “Easily fundy logic flows.”

  1. Ok, story time…

    Circa 1990, an HAC grad came down to our island as a missionary. He brought with him all the bag of tricks that he had learned on bus ministries and children ministries stateside — including magic tricks.

    The problem was that in those days when most folks in the country didn’t own a television (that rapidly changed over the next decade) and were unaware of how illusions worked, they thought he was doing actual “obia” the local practice of witchcraft.

    Due to his cultural ignorance, the whole thing backfired on him and he eventually had to stop doing magic tricks.

    The End.

      1. This is third hand and I lost the link to the thread, so grain of salt please.

        The story I heard from the friend of a missionary couple was that they went to a region of Africa where women went topless, but wore voluminous skirts that brushed the ground. They had never been anywhere so hot, but the wife was determined to remain decent, so she obeyed the rules of her church regarding how long shorts had to be (something about fingertips) and wore a button-up cotton shirt. Everywhere she went, the men stared at her. Eventually she found out why.

        It turned out that in local culture, breasts were for babies and a proper grown man wouldn’t give them a second glance, but (shiver, lick lips) knees were the gateway to . . . higher things. And she had been going all over the village, even in church, with her kneelers sticking out, mannn, you gotta come see this white woman with the naked kneelers! So she put on a local skirt. And eventually, to fit in, she took off the top.

        1. I know of several cultures in the world where bare breasts are not considered indecent, but uncovered knees are improper.

          It just goes to show the arbitrariness of codes of “modesty.”

        2. Another such example is that exposing the soles of your feet to another person is a horrible insult in much of Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia.

          Many Americans are unwittingly very rude indeed to people from those places.

          In much of the same region, it’s horribly uncouth to eat with your left hand.

        3. Not just eat with your left hand…wave at somebody, hand them something, doing much of anything regarding another person with your left hand is pretty much a no-no.

          Although where I lived most locals knew us Westerners did it by accident and gave us a lot of grace.

  2. I once knew a nice fundy family who were concerned about magic to the point where they were considering removing a ceiling fan from their home because it was decorated with horse shoes.

    1. “Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that β€œan idol has no real existence,” and that β€œthere is no God but one.””

      Someone needs to listen to Paul a little more.

      1. My fundie mom threw away the mahogany African sculptures that my Dad (divorced) brought back from his Navy days. He was perplexed, he left them because he felt that they were nice and should stay in the house for us to enjoy. He’s still pissed, 25 years later.

    2. “Someone needs to listen to Paul a little more.”

      We had a Native American picture of a girl with spirit wolves in the background and at one point my dad had to exorcise a demon from it because of the spirit wolves. I don’t remember all the details, but evidently that picture was responsible for something awful – a bad attitude, maybe?

  3. Awful video. His suspense building intro had segues that were about 2 or 3 seconds too long in between the suspense building text.

    When you do a disappearing hanky in your hand, it’s kind of important to not be wrestling with the hanky to stuff it into whatever so visibly. I thought his forearm was gonna cramp from all that clinching & shoving.

    I’m curious why it’s OK for him to use drums?

    1. I noticed that too. I thought maybe it was an accident, or he forgot that he hadn’t finished it… I was glad it was missing though. Much more of that amazing magic I might have fallen asleep.

      1. When I was in elementary school I went to a (different) church called “Heritage Baptist”, and attended their tiny basement school as well. We left when I was in 6th grade when the church split. The pastor was misusing money and had an affair with the church secretary.

  4. Let’s look into this video in the light of the Word of God, amen? First of all, I guarantee you I’d never show this at on the Lord’s Day – videos and gimmicks have no place in the church. Now first observe the dark clouds of smoke. Smoke hides things. What loves to be hidden? Sin, amen? There is no righteous thing that should be hid by those clouds – do you hide your light under a bushel? Do you snuff it out? No, amen? Keep that light on shining, brother!
    Now dark clouds, let me tell you, are one of the most common elements of occult practices. You see posters for them worldly movies and tv out there! You see dark clouds in every single one of them! God said it, I believe it, and that settles it – the King James Bible says that we ought not mess with the occult! Don’t even go near it! When you see dark clouds in a picture, that’s time to take your wife, your children, and go back to church, amen?
    If you need further evidence – and only the stiff-necked among you, who have hardened your hearts! You need to get right with God! You gotta listen to that Holy Spirit! One more thing in that abominable video. At the end, you see that head of a child. A small, innocent, child created by our God and our Lord. And you know what this occult-loving, dark-cloud-sin-hiding man is doing with this child? Does he honor God’s creation? Does he love this child? No! You saw it – he had this child’s head in a guillotine! Can you imagine! The Canaanites, the wicked, evil, godless people that Gawd destroyed, amen, they were wiped out because of this wickedness. They sacrificed their children! Now this man, calls himself a magician, but we know he’s no innocent magician, he’s an occult practicer, amen? This man puts a child’s head in a guillotine. What man of Gawd would ever do such wickedness? “Oh, but pastor, it’s just an illusion.” Was there some kind of illusion when the Canaanites slaughtered their own offspring for demons? Was it some kind of illusion that they dismembered their children, trying to make it rain? The only illusion here, amen, is that this man is anything but an occult-practicing, demon-worshiping warlock! Amen?
    Now this man travels around deceiving the churches of God. The King James Bible says that they will come who will deceive even God’s people, amen? But we will not be deceived, amen? If any of you watched this video, and thought, we should have that man come to our church, to “entertain us” – you need to come on down here and dedicate your lives to God, amen? You’re scared that you’ve been so deceived, let us pray over you, to have understanding that I’ve been preaching about. While the organ plays, “Nearer my God to thee” – think of those dark clouds, and think of the light of God driving away that darkness. Come, come to the altar to step into that light! We need that light of God to keep us in truth. Come, come forward! Some of you are sitting there, thinking, pastor, I can pray here, I don’t need to come down. Let me tell you, people in the churches this occult man is performing his demon arts in, they were saying the same thing, amen? Do you want the clouds of darkness to keep you from God’s magnificent light? Then you need to come forward. “Nearer, my God to thee….” There are still some who need to get up out of the pew and submit to the Lord’s call – let’s go back to verse one while God is still working. Dispel those clouds of darkness!

  5. “The revival campaign was blessed by the Lord’s presence each service and souls were saved! The Magic and Morality Youth Rally was attended by 318 people and 15 souls were saved. Four of those have already followed the Lord in baptism and at least one other who attended and did not respond to the invitation, has since trusted Christ as Savior.”

    from the newsletter of numbers

    Wonder if the individual in question responded to another invitation? πŸ˜•

  6. Magic Nights???
    Magic done in the darkness of night?
    Sayyyy, what kind of deviltry is going on here???
    It’ll take us six months to pray the deamons out of the church after this is allowed in. Hey-men?! 😈

    Pastor: I’m agin’ it. I don’t like it. No, Sir, I don’t like it one bit. All that majik mumbo-jumbo is of the Devil.
    Deacon:Pssst, but pastor they get 300-500 people a night into the services.
    Pastor: We-l-l-l why didn’t someone say so. Welcome Brother, welcome!

  7. The poster even has a MAGIC WAND!! Baffled at why Christians give themselves personal liberty in this but don’t give others personal liberty to watch the Smurfs.

    And THREE NIGHTS of this? Are the church members that dedicated to drag themselves out three nights in a row to watch this? Then again, it’s probably more appealling than seven nights of an evangelist screaming at them.

  8. Fundys are the one group that whips its people into a frenzy over open toe shoes and the evils therein yet hires a “Christian magician” to bring people to Jesus.
    Am I the only person who wants to scream at such utter hypocrisy?
    Arrrgghhhh!

  9. OMG!!! That church is about 15 minutes away from me!!! 😯 The fam and I were looking for something to do tonight. Should we go??! πŸ˜€

      1. I’m afraid the video would capture me having an anxiety attack being in a fundy church rather than anything of entertainment value! πŸ˜•

        1. Hold up!!!
          There are way too many non-Koolaid drinker type names here!
          Are you the non koolaid drinker that lives near me??? If so- I say we sneak in, grab some treats and send Darrell our video encounter of the 3rd kind!!! Yes!!
          If your not that Koolaid drinker..very sorry. 😳

        2. Um…is there a way to contact you off a public forum? If you lived in the area…that would be super cool! πŸ™‚ (Yeah…I read your blog. lol…sorry if that was too stalkerish.)

  10. This is totally ok, because it’s CHRISTIAN magic, as opposed to the PAGAN magic of the Smurfs, Rainbow Brite, and My Little Pony. It’s just like how regular karate is the gateway to Eastern mysticism, but CHRISTIAN karate is a-okay, and maybe even required. Gosh, don’t you people read the BIBLE?? It’s plain as day. πŸ˜†

    We have a Christian karate studio near where I live. I’ve always been confused about what exactly that means… I guess they pray before wailing on somebody’s head?? 😯 πŸ™„

  11. My Granddad was a magician. A couple of times he entertained at a church or sunday school social. But he always ended the performance stating that it is all illusion and the only magic is christ.

  12. This one actually threw me. I knew of one Fundy guy who would practically foam at the mouth at _any_ use of the word “magic”. Even something as innocent as saying “the magic of love” would make this guy go off into outrageous condemnations of magic as Satanic. He really hated that many of us who hung out on the same Christian BBSes liked playing “Magic: The Gathering”. Some people went so far as to make a secret room just for the gamers. It was completely insane, between dealing with Mr. Foamy and the gamers each fighting for their rights. πŸ™„

    1. I never really got into playing M:TG. I did play a Star Wars version of the game for a week or two at college until it and all other Star Wars stuff was banned for its occult influences. The music was OK as long as it passed the music test. I had a soundtrack from Phantom Menace that failed because there was supposedly a back-beat (2-4 rythm) in the parade music from the end of the film.

  13. Wait a minute. This starts tomorrow and runs through Friday. I’m on vacation tomorrow through Friday. Do I dare? I do like road trips. :mrgreen:

    Upon further review, I’ll find my time better invested in watching my grass grow and watching the Casey Anthony trial.

    1. Never went there but we had their door knockers in our neighborhood several times. My family went to the somewhat-tolerant-and-not-KJV-only-but-probably-still-okay Sodus Bible Baptist.

  14. You are gonna need some magic if you’re hoping to make those “decisions for Christ” stick by preaching morality. Just taking a guess by the website title. It’s like when I had to eat that mayo/pudding/potato chip combo blindfolded in Sunday school that was meant to teach me something about Jesus??? Bunch of confusing ridiculousness. Oh how the Gospel doesn’t need this nonsense. Maybe he means well but seriously…

  15. For whatever it is worth, Dave Corn works for our association. We are Independent Baptist in affiliation and Fundamentalist in our doctrinal position. We are gracious to those who do not take our position, but it is who we are nonetheless! As for the Magic stuff, it all began in fun when Dave was a teen in a public high school. Because people love it, we began using some of the tricks in a few of our Children’s and teens services simply as an attention getter. Some people will not permit us to do so because of association and we simply honor their position and don’t use it in their ministry. It has become a larger part of our ministry as we have begun trying to impact teens in our public school system. We don’t use rock music (we are fundamentalists :-)) and we don’t have an athletic team to gain access to students in the schools either. But, the magic tricks are universally loved and David has put together a great program. As a result, we are able to speak to students in public schools and in many cities have had youth rallies (such as the one being held for three nights in Cordova) that have respected the so-called separation of church and state and yet allowed us to impact students lives spiritually. We are not trying to be cool or even relevant necessarily. We are trying to reach teens in a way that doesn’t violate our personal convictions and preferences and yet that allows us to reach a great majority of teens. If statistics are true, 3 out of 4 teens in our public schools have NO religious influence at all! You may not like how we are doing it, and if so, fine! I do hope that you will reach them in some other way! Teens certainly need God in our day!

    Respectfully yours:
    Evangelist David Young

    1. Hi, Dave.

      I heard you speak many times during my years at PCC. Nice to see you here.

      If statistics are true, 3 out of 4 teens in our public schools have NO religious influence at all!

      You can call me skeptical on this one. Do you have a source we can look at?

      1. Probably goes back to the surveys that indicate that evangelical Christians are about 23-26% of the American population.

        Of course, Roman Catholics are another 22% and growing… then there are mainline Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, etc… before you know it you’re up to about 80-90% of the population who at least claim some kind of religion (the vast majority being Christian).

        1. The figures in the neighborhood of 25% are probably highly exaggerated.
          See “The Fall of the Evangelical Nation,” by Christine Wicker, for statistical analysis of the numbers of Americans who can be considered Fundamentalist, Evangelical, or Charismatic Christians.

          It’s a slippery question, though, because how each of those groups are defined and identified is something on which there is very little agreement. How you word the questions, and even the order in which you ask the questions, makes a great deal of difference in how people will respond to questions about their religious beliefs and practices. For example, far more people tell surveyors that they attended church this week than actually did, if you look at church attendance figures.

          The fact that about 85 to 90 per cent of Americans claim some kind of religion, though, is widely agreed on by demographers, and has been fairly consistent for decades. That’s one of the highest percentages in any industrialized country.

          That makes me strongly doubt David Young’s estimation that “… 3 out of 4 teens in our public schools have NO religious influence at all!”
          Remember, that’s not a claim that only 25% of teens are Fundamentalist Christians, or even that only 25% are Christians. For that figure to be true, 75% would have to have no information about any religion whatever.

      2. I think it is wrong to go into public schools for the purpose of luring kids to outside rallies where you wish to convert them to some other faith than that which their parents have chosen to raise them with. If non-Christian groups attempted to convert your children in such a manner, you would be angry. Why can’t you have the same respect for families with other faiths?

    2. That’s pretty sweet, but why attach so many strings to your evangelism? This stuff could be on FIRE if you weren’t so hesitant to step outside your box (Independent Baptist/Fundamentalist, no rock music, no athletic team, no using tricks if it offends people, etc.). As a training youth pastor, it hurts me to see a ministry with so much potential being squashed by fear and tradition. I agree wholeheartedly that ministry shouldn’t be unbiblical, and God help those who go against the Bible for the sake of ministry, but when you tie yourself down with chains that aren’t even biblical issues you’re just restraining the spread of the gospel. And that’s not cool!

    3. Dave,

      Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for being cordial. I too remember you from PCC.

      I guess what we find amusing is the inconsistency. You talk about how many kids are drawn in by Christian magic tricks, yet as I recall you would not defend Christian rock on the grounds that it brings in kids. How can this be defended? It’s very hard to find a verse in the Bible that clearly condemns a musical style, but the practice of magic was punished by death in the Old Testament.

      In fact, last I heard, you don’t believe that rock can ever be Christian. You said Christian rock is like Christian beer. I happen to agree with you. πŸ™‚ But not for the reason you might suspect. One of the most prominent evangelical Christians in the United States and England is a man by the name of Os Guinness. He has a doctorate from Oxford and runs a think tank and Christian retreat on the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland near Washington, DC. I’m not sure but I think he pays for all that with the family fortune. The Guinness family fortune. It comes from the Guinness beer company of Dublin, Ireland.

      It’s fine by me if a Christian disapproves of either beer or rock music. I personally don’t like Christian rock, and for a variety of reasons I tend to avoid churches that rock too hard in the worship service. What I mean by “rock too hard” is probably far to the “left” of what you would think, but I do draw a line.

      It just seems to me that if you’re going to be a stickler about Christian rock then maybe Christian magic should be out-of-bounds. I mean, Leviticus has some pretty harsh words about magicians.

      P.S. I’m not personally offended or outraged by magic tricks. I know it’s not real witchcraft.

    4. Well, Dave is a good deal more gentle than he could have been with this one. I’ve met David Corn and Dave Young personally, and I have to say that the mockery of the magician is a mistake. I’m no longer an IFB; the Lord brought me out of that a while ago.

      There are fundamentalists and then there are fundamentalists, if you take my meaning. And D&D aren’t the sort many of us grew up with. They are passionate- nothing wrong there. They have some different standards- to ask them to alter those standards is a funny form of reverse-legalism. They have a different methodology- but it takes all kinds to reach the lost.

      I guess what I’m saying is that there are plenty of folks out there who are genuinely skewing the Gospel for the sake of their own Pharisaical purposes. Neither of these guys are out there to make names for themselves or to spread man’s opinions.

  16. Oh wow, Darrell. I was thinking the Arrested Development reference even before I scrolled down to see that you put the reference! “Illusions, Michael, Illusions. Tricks are what a whore does for money.” I hope David Corn here doesn’t reveal his secrets, lest he be blacklisted by The Christian Magicians Alliance! I wonder, if like Tony Wonder, he pulls Hanukkah cookies out of nowhere (of course, they would be cookies with crosses on them)! πŸ˜€ Ah, such a good show…

  17. You would think he could at least get a professional portrait done for his website. That is one of most hideous head shots I’ve seen in long time.

  18. Moses fits the profile of a wizard. He had a magic staff. He turned his staff into a snake (an evil animal according to biblical mythology.) He also used his staff to part the Red Sea, make water come from a rock, etc…

  19. I am a professional magician that specializes in doing Christian programs. There seems to be a lot of ignorance on this topic. These tricks are just illusions. This is my talent and I use it for the Lord, just as a musician uses his voice or instruments. You would be surprised how many well known magicians are commited to their Christian faith-ie: Duane Laflin- King of Silk Magic, Andre Kole- David Copperfield’s consultant that invented the Statue of Liberty Vanish, Tony Chapek, Marty Hahne, etc…

  20. I find it sad that you guys attack people like David who is simply trying to reach people with the Gospel. Seriously, what does this prove or solve? What is your ultimate purpose in having this website? Is it just to cause controversy or is there some redeeming and eternal purpose behind it?

    1. It exposes the excesses, the fallacies, and the crap that passes for Churchianity in America (and around the world) as found in the Independent Fundamental Baptist sect or IFB Cult as it is also known. The redeeming eternal purpose behind all this is that maybe by our exposing this non-denomination denomination for what it is, others eyes will be opened and they might escape the IFB prison as well.

  21. My first thought was, “Illusions! It’s not a magic trick, Buster!”
    And then, after that, I am imagining a variety of chicken dances, and must spend the afternoon watching clips. Of course, I’ll close my eyes whenever Lindsay shows her bare shoulders or Lucille is drinking. I’m a good fundy still!! πŸ˜€

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