Blaming the Victim – BJU Style

In a way I’m hesitant to keep beating this drum for fear that this blog will turn into “stories about IFB rape vicims.” That’s not my intention for this site and there are already several other writers who are undertaking the task. However, in light of my post about “Destroying the Innocent,” I feel compelled to post this follow up to demonstrate that this kind of behavior is not an isolated incident but rather the result of a carefully constructed philosophy propagated by some of the bastions of fundamentalism.

Here, in sermon at Bob Jones University, Dr. Rand Hummel Demonstrates How To Blame The Victim and make her apologize to her rapist. Notice that nowhere in his story does he say that he contacted any law enforcement or even spoke to the gir’s parents. Even if he did, he doesn’t consider it important to making his main point that the real problem here is the girl’s attitude.

The real meat of the story begins about 2:30 in.

You can view or listen to the the full sermon here.

127 thoughts on “Blaming the Victim – BJU Style”

  1. I thought I was done being surprised by the people I grew up respecting…but I’m not. 🙁 🙁 🙁

  2. BTW, does anyone have a more current printing of that book than 2002, even if it is a 2nd Ed.? I’d be interested to know if that sentence is still in there, or if that was a fluke.

  3. I was thinking about the case in which the daughter was raped by the stepfather. Did it ever occur to anyone that possible mom and daughter lived together for quite awhile before step dad ever came into the picture. There’s always that adjustment period. If step dad had a problem with the daughter showering with the door open and walking around in a towel he should have mentioned it to mom. Probably too embarrassed over the fact that he was turned on by his step daughter to say anything, so instead commits a terrible crime which could have been prevented by a simple conversation initiated by the man of the house.

  4. @charlene Rape is about power, not sexual arousal. And being aroused does not make someone rape someone else. You can be aroused and still have control over your body to not rape someone.

  5. @Charlene Really? You just can’t stop looking for ways to blame the victim? Really?

  6. At the end, he asks what has stolen your smile. I didn’t see him smile during the whole time. He doesn’t look like a very “smiley” kind of person.

    I don’t see how he was blaming the victim. To me, it seemed like he was talking about people who have been horribly wronged forgiving and finally letting go of the hurt and bitterness inside of them. I come from a broken home and haven’t seen several family members in about a decade. Periodically, I struggle with bitterness and forgiveness, though the situations weren’t my fault.

    I think in his first example, it was wrong of the girl to blame her sister for how she personally feels about her sister and nephew being an “embarrassment” to her family. I used to be embarrassed of my family for various reasons, and now realize how selfish, shallow, and wrong that was. I’m no longer embarrassed by them.

  7. @Charlene

    I’m sorry, but that’s about the most ignorant thing I’ve heard from (presumably) a grown woman. I highly doubt a young teenager would walk around the house half-naked to begin with, but if she did, the step father should know better to walk away and say something to the girl’s mother. As the other comments mentioned, rape is about selfishness, power, and control. And no matter what, it’s sick that a man would rape a thirteen-year-old girl, especially a girl who is supposed to be like a daughter to him.

  8. <<<>>>

    Oh gross. Words fails me here. This comment puts responsibility on the minor! What Charlene just said, is why the IFB is corrupt. This is the reason BJU cannot say what they are teaching is “education.”

    I don’t care if a teenager runs around the house naked, the ADULT is responsible to say, “Girl, go put your clothes on!” An adult does NOT engage the minor in sexual activity. Every *normal* man knows this! It shouldn’t even be a *discussion point.*

  9. I couldn’t even finish watching it. “What about your sin?” was where I had to stop it.

    When you think God hates you, saying “What about your sin?” is not really the thing to say. It’s like thinking your parent hates you and having someone say, “So, what about the times you were a horrible child?” “Oh yes, your right, that makes everything better!” is not how you’re going to respond. Instead, you’re going to think, “Yup, okay, so what you’re saying is…God hates me and has justifiable reason for it.” That’s what I thought.

    Heck, I still struggle with believing God hates me. Sometimes because of what happened to me, but mostly because of that very logic…of having been told that I need to forgive (or God won’t forgive me) and knowing that I can’t. Whether I’ll be able to one day or not, I don’t know, but right now it’s not even something I’m able to do.

    And then on top of that, does this pastor realize that anger and bitterness are not the only responses to being victimized? You feel hurt, betrayed, afraid, there are flashbacks to deal with, maybe panic attacks and PTSD sometimes, and all these things can’t be fixed by mere forgiveness? It’s far more complicated than that. Far, far more complicated.

  10. Rand Hummel may as well be Jim Berg’s twin. Berg talks about Rand and Rand uses “Bergisms.” Listening to that video was an example of how I was counseled for 6 months while at BJU by Jim Berg. Everything from me being kidnapped, raped, beaten, then emotionally abused by my afamily was “no doubt the problem was you (ie ME) because I was bitter. Berg did not believe in PTSD and told me my associated depression was also sin. Also being a student, I was not given the option of seeking counseling, I was TOLD to come for counseling or ELSE! Can you imagine, someone with my past getting 2 counseling sessions/week for 6 months, and then Berg ending all of it with. “I can’t help you, no one can help you, not even God can help you?” I attempted suicide, after watching that video and re-hearing it again…..I am amazed it took me 6 months to go over the edge. No wonder, I felt I had no where to turn.


    Sorry to make this about Jim Berg. Rand and Jim Berg are so much alike and are best of friends. If you hear one you heard the other.

  11. @Kitty – It’s like you can’t win. You’re a victim, but by responding as a victim, you’re told you’re wrong. And by being told that, you’re being re-victimized, so you respond like a victim….and then told you’re wrong…until it all piles on top of you, and it feels like there’s no way out of it.

    I’m sorry that that happened to you.

  12. Rand’s (and Berg’s) bizarre conclusions come from a “justification by grace, sanctification by works” theology. Even though you will never hear it stated that way. Watch out for this stuff.

  13. I’m not trying to put blame on the victim. There’s no excuse for what he did. A simple conversation between the adults would have solved alot. The parents should’ve been the adults and addressed it head on. Raping her showed weakness on his part.

  14. But on the other hand, I do know that rape is a power thing, so even if mom were to tell the girl to put on her clothes, it could’ve still happened. Which still means that the the stepdad was a sorry loser (putting it nicely). I apologize if my previous post sounded like I was blaming the victim. I was just wondering if maybe things could’ve been done differently like preventative measures. I’ve heard of quite a few stories of a step parent abusing a child, and wondering if there isn’t signs or anything that would give an any indication that something is amiss. I am just wondering, since I am not familiar with rape cases personally. I am sorry if my original post came out wrong. I was more wondering out loud than anything else and wondering if other than the adults, especially mom telling the girl, to put her clothes on would have done any good. I don’t know if I am making any sense or not so I’ll stop, I feel like I’m rambling……

  15. @Charlene, what you are trying to say is simply not true all around. You probably mean well. But this is a matter of education. I don’t want to talk down to you, but there is just no other way to say how offensive your remarks are here or would be to a victim.

    It is not a “weakness on his part.” Rape is about power and control. A “normal” man does not get “turned on” by a teenage girl and make sexual advances of any kind. He just doesn’t go there. It’s not even possible for him. He simply makes a choice to turn away and take the adult approach to that situation. This was not an “immodesty issue” that needed “discussion between two adults.” This is simply a psych. problem that must be addressed professionally. He needs help.

    Again, you can only think that way if you have been educated to believe that it is possible for a teenager to “seduce” a man by what he sees/doesn’t see. But this is not about that. It never is. A child’s brain doesn’t even stop growing until mid-twenties. The laws are written to protect the vulnerable. Minors are vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation/coercion. Often they lack the common sense to make “good choices” in general…so when it comes to a sexual relationship with a *man* the law says, “Not possible for it to be consensual.” The man was/is responsible…period.

  16. And I understand your thought about “prevention”…but again, it’s not about what he sees/doesn’t see. It’s a psych. issue that must be dealt with professionally. Period.

  17. @charlene But it wouldn’t have mattered. Not being clothed is an excuse on his part, not a reason. Because it is about power and control. If it was a clothing issue, then women in burqas would never be raped – which isn’t true at all. I’m certain in his mind he probably made the connection “Hey, she wasn’t wearing anything, she’s asking for it” but that’s still on him, because with a mindset like that, anything she did would probably have given him reasons to believe she was asking for it. “A simple conversation” wouldn’t have solved anything, because rape isn’t a natural extension of miscommunication. It’s caused by one individual deciding to rape another. There is a whole lot of people who tend to say “well maybe it could have been prevented this way” or “if you had done something different…” when in reality, the way it could have been prevented is if the person doing the raping had chosen not to rape. He is entirely responsible for the outcome of the situation.

  18. Stuff Fundies Like: Using their own experiences from their ministry as sermon illustrations without the permission of the people they counseled.

    Have you ever counted how many “anonymous” stories these pastors use? Things like “there was once a young man who…” or “my friend pastor Joe was once working with a young woman who had…….”. If these things were real counseling sessions where people were asking for help, isn’t there a sense of privacy?

    Near the end before I left completely, I kept a tab of how many of these stories/illustrations the pastor used. The average was about 10-15.

  19. Any man capable of having a sexual relationship with a minor…is sick. Any man who wonders if a sexual relationship with a minor was “consensual …is also sick. Both of those men need psych. treatment. Sadly, that’s a large percentage of men in the IFB.

  20. @ Jocelyn
    Thank you for your info. Like I said, I don’t mean to be offensive. I live in Alaska where domestic violence and abuse is high, and I was just wondering what goes on in peoples’ heads that would cause them to act that way. Also, I do know that minors shouldn’t be held accountable for the rapes, but my question would be is how do you handle the double standards that fashion dictates from an early age for girls to dress a certain way inappropriately. I notice that this is usually what fundies like to use as an example to use as an excuse why men rape young girls. Do you know where I am going with this? I know, I grew up with that attitude. “Don’t give men an excuse……”

  21. @Charlene–And that’s the attitude that is just sick. Men need to be responsible for their own actions. I don’t care if a girl is in a bikini or naked, the man needs to make the right choice and that gives him no right to take something from a girl that belongs only to her. In these “spiritualized/patriarchal” societies, somehow it is “not that bad” if the girl was wearing the “wrong item” and the man moved on that. But, yes it is! That is wrong, no matter what!

    He has no right to do anything to a girl that violates any law or that violates ethics of any kind. Men outside these closed societies (in the “real world”) are very aware of this. They know they need to be careful. The law doesn’t say, “Well, she was wearing a see-through bikini, what did you expect him to do”?

    Do men outside these closed communities take liberties with girls/women? Yes. But they know the consequences of their actions if they get turned in or caught.

    On the other hand, in these religious communities, it’s somehow “ok” if “x,y,z” were in play. And I think that’s a large reason men in these groups feel the freedom to do what they do without consequence.

  22. I know that rape knows no bounds in the fact that it can happen in any community, but why does is seem to run most rampant amongst groups that ought to know better and does nothing but hurt their cause, make them look bad, and hurt others at the same ? Just a thought.

  23. @Charlene— are you highlighting that it runs more rampant in the IFB? If so, here’s my opinion (although that means little– but I have spoken to quite a large number of professionals through the years):

    Sexual repression often leads to sexual deviancy. Also, the IFB teach that a man is to be obeyed. Therefore, the marriage relationship often times turns into a “father-daughter” relationship between the husband and wife. This feeds a mans ego and an abusers need for control. He learns to embrace/ride on that power granted to him by his society. And since there is no mutual respect between the male and female, he tends to view the women as “property.”

  24. I agree, men do need to be responsible for their actions. It’s one of those things that one must repeat over and over to retrain their brain from the IFB teachings.

    About the sexual repression thing, I agree 100%. It’s one of the things that I have noticed amongst those who practice that even in their own marriages (which I think is crazy). I’ve learned to avoid those guys like the plague because they kind of have that hungry look in their eyes. My husband even noticed that and was completely turned off by it.

  25. Like most of the viewers here, I couldn’t finish the video. He is so frustrating. That is the way IFB circles handle everything – find a way to pin it on the victim, and it didn’t even have to do with rape either!!! Very maddening.

  26. I listen to a few minutes of Rand’s Rave and I had to quit. I wanted to throw up. I really understand now, of those young girls who were raped, came to me and not to the pastor.My five daughters were raped by their father. The county prosecutor already knew about it. Him and the social worker came to my house, I was not at home, with a search warrant, the intention was to take my children.My husbands brothers had turned me in for beating my children. Not true. I had already kicked my husband out. The local deputy, would not let them in, as it was on me. Just upset my children. When I got home, went to the deputy and asked what was going on. Well, when he gets those search warrants he has to obey them. He had said, he had never had any problem with me or our nine children. I said.Do you know what is going on my house. Well, you know, Kay, the gossip is that you got this new big house and now you kicked Eugene out and getting divorce. I said. Divorce right now is the last thing on my mind. He has raped all of our daughters. He jumped up, and called me a%$& liar. The county had not even told him. This is how the church, the community treated me and my children. That was 25 years ago. I think I’m the only mother in an incest case, that ever got to keep her children.
    Two of my daughters and I was on the Phil Donahue show.
    It even gets worse. Ten years ago, I married a wonderful man. Two years ago, I had to go into court to address his annunity, to pay for home health, and his daughter, Thee Dr. and so decided she was going to be guardian and conservertor. Took half of our money, I can’t pay the bills, power has been shut off, they want to shut off the water. None of my children live near me.I call it elder abuse. You just can’t win.

  27. Truth of the matter: No one, who is not a professional psychologist and who has not been *ASKED* by the victim to give “advice” should be offering “suggestions” on how to respond to sexual/physical abuse. Rand Hummel should NEVER be offering his “advice” to a girl in this situation. He should be saying, “This is outside my area of expertise since I am not a licensed counselor. Let me recommend you to a wonderful psychologist in this area.” That’s it. That’s as far as he should go. He is not qualified or trained to do what he is doing and he is for SURE doing a tremendous amount of damage.

    This type of abuse is traumatic and does severe damage to the brain. Even a well-meaning person can do a lot of damage. There are plenty of stories from the inside of BJU where people have literally claimed they were “destroyed” by that place. BJU is a university running a “counseling” program that does not meet state requirements for licensure and certification. That’s a big problem. Because now uneducated people are giving counsel to uneducated people about very serious issues.

    A victim needs the opportunity to go through the proper stages of grieving (5-7 stages—that sometimes take years). Statistically, it takes victims years (sometimes decades) to speak out about the pain of this abuse. And very few victims ever speak out at all. So when the victim is in the “God hates me stage” the LAST thing they need to hear is what they are doing *wrong*. Talk about adding fuel to the fire and setting a victim up for suicide. Whew!

    These “biblical counselors” (using phony “Drs” before their names) at BJU are off…way off…and brainwashed…completely brainwashed to believe this is “ok.” And people all over the IFB are regurgitating this information as if it is acceptable and normal to think like this and it needs to stop.

  28. I don’t think that even sexual “repression” leads to deviancy if by repression you merely mean celibacy (and believe me, I should know). We are just not THAT passive. Just as this man was not helpless to rape his step daughter when (if) he saw her wrapped in a towel, a man is not helpless before his own moral choices to act out and rape because he has chosen to live a life of moral constraint.

    Men rape because they believe they are entitled to do so. Yes, it actually comes back to that simple Biblical idea….(drum roll please)….PRIDE. They believe the victim deserves to be raped, needs to be raped, wants to be raped. What they really believe is that they have a right to rape. Plenty of repressed men (in fact, most of them) do not commit rape. I’m stunned that both sides of the question here look at human beings as being THAT passive and helpless before the drives of this influence or that influence.

    Plenty of men who are not sexually repressed commit rape. There are men with wives and kids and active community lives, who have everything, and they commit rape. There are men who engage in promiscuous sex with consenting partners who commit rape.

    If it is wrong and dangerous for us to be swayed by the BJU line that a man is helpless before the sight of a half-clothed woman and will rape her because he has been acted upon, then let’s not make the same gross error in thinking a man is helpless when he denies his lusts and then must rape a woman because his self denial has rendered him helpless.

    People just have a lot more free will than that, and people are responsible for what they do. Rapists have a sense of entitlement. They may be angry, or they may hold their victims in contempt, or they may even feel sorry for themselves afterward and snivel about their own helplessness (another way of blaming the victim, really). But the real truth is, what prompts a rapist to rape is the decision to rape. As human beings, we are just not that passive and helpless about what we do. We choose. Rapists choose. That’s why they rape.

  29. The theatre company that I’m executive director of in Greenville has partnered with Safe Harbor, a battered women’s shelter, in producing a theatre production to raise awareness of the issue, and money for Safe Harbor. I’ll resist the urge to give you the details since I haven’t paid Darrell for ad space 🙂

    In a meeting with the staff of Safe Harbor, where we were brainstorming marketing ideas, I naively mentioned churches. The staff of S.H. laughed, and then the S.H. creative director made the comment, “Well, there are enough liberal churches in the area, we could aproach some of them.”

    I was stunned and saddened, and said something about how this shouldn’t be a liberal or conservative issue. As the conversation continued I learned that conservative churches (translation – I live in Greenville) are some of Safe Harbor’s largest critics and opponents. Personally I have been angrily confronted by fundy family members about the project this summer.

    On average in SC a women has to be admitted to the ER 7 times before she will seek help. SEVEN TIMES! These “churches” and “pastors” should be ashamed, and will one day have to answer to King Jesus. I for one will seperate from them over their heresy.

  30. The problem here comes down to a rotten core of doctrine. To Rand, and Fundamentalism, the sin in a person is the whole rather then a part. This causes them to approach *any* situation with the wrath of God first. But in the case of rape these people need God’s Love first. They need to realize that God is on their side and there for them not God’s wrath. In the case of rape bitterness often swells from the feeling of abandonment or helplessness. They feel that God was not or is not there. In Fundamentalism this is compounded by their doctrine of purity/virginity. Loss of purity/virginity regardless of how or who is at fault results in an impure person. Therefore that person is in sin. They preach against the sin of impurity a thousand times over, but in my 20+ years of Fundamentalism I never heard them preach forgiveness for that sin. It seems that that one sin is unpardonable. As a result rape victims or even those who fall into sexual sin feel abandon. As if there is no forgiveness with God. The result is bitterness or disillusionment. How can God not forgive.

    Now they come to Rand and what does he do? Instead of showing God’s love and forgiveness he slaps them in the face with God’s wrath and judgment. These girls needed love, not wrath. Justice for the wrong that had been done to them, not judgment for the sin they may be harboring. Had he gone to that root the sin of bitterness likely would have taken care of itself.

    This is why I believe this situation with Phelps shows that the core problems (the facts not disputed…how he treated Tina and how he reacted to the rape) are systemic to all of Fundamentalism. They treat rape as if it is another sin, and that is horrible.

    1. @Mark …forgiveness, grace, mercy, love…all of those words are dangerous to the fundamentalist…speaking about them might give people the idea that they have permission to sin

      Why would the fundamentalist ever want to talk about them (forgiveness, grace, mercy, love). Oh…wait…I forgot…they are all in the Bible. My bad. 💡

  31. I do not believe this issue is as simple as “man’s free will.” I am in the middle of an Abnormal Psychology class right now where we are studying sexual deviancy and other behaviors (incest, pedophilia, rape, etc.).

    It has actually caused me to have a measure of compassion for my own perpetrators. For instance, evidence suggests (and is documented) that incest/pedophilia is a learned behavior (when practiced at a young age). That is not just “free will.” There are environmental elements, social elements, and FOO and COO to consider. That’s where the patriarchal society aids this deviancy.

    I think there are a large population of men in the IFB who have never had proper professional counseling for their deviant behaviors. It’s not a “cure all”…but I think pastors are trying to deal with things that are “out of their realm of expertise.” And if a man is capable of raping a young girl, he has other “issues” that fall outside of “free will.”

    Although, I DO think they need to be held accountable for their actions to the fullest extent. I just don’t think this issue is all that easy or able to be put in some box like that.

  32. There’s a difference between “an explanation” and “an excuse.”

    If a person has a series of events in their life combined with some biological predispositions that end up with a result of them hurting someone else. That’s an explanation for what happened but it doesn’t make them any less guilty morally or (generally) legally.

    I agree with you, Jocelyn that an understanding of abnormal psychology and the “perfect disasters” that occur in the human mind/soul/spirit/psyche are helpful in understanding how these things can happen. But I agree with BASSENCO to the extent that we’re not merely the product of our urges. At some point along the road we made the choice not to go deeper and deeper into the behavior without seeking help.

  33. Yes. Right. There is a balance. You can’t have one without the other. There are many things to consider all around. Thanks.

  34. And I very much agree that many pastors are trying to deal with things in which they have no training.

    It’s so incredibly dangerous to dispense advice to a seriously mentally ill person when you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

    I know someone with PTSD who received the “read your Bible and pray more” treatment from a fundamentalist church and it almost ruined him.

  35. Hence, the reason I tend to gravitate towards the terminology of “mental illness and brainwashing” is to eliminate the idea that these people are “all bad” and simply choosing to do evil. This is a sickness. A mental sickness. I was there. I was deceived and duped by this system. I would have regurgitated these same comments right back at people my entire life had I not gone through it myself.

    I needed professional help (and still do). If a person leaves the IFB and does not enter some form of professional counseling, they are probably still toxic at some level. Professional counseling helps a person see these issues from the outside– something none of us were allowed to do.

    I think this is one of the core foundational problems in the IFB.

  36. I don’t think the issue of rape is easy to put in a box, either. And clearly, Fundamentalism has to answer for the level of temptation and immunity (which is another form of temptation) it has provided for men who rape. However, psychology itself is no panacea, and over the last six decades (if we set 1950 as the arbitrary guess date of when the sexual revolution became aware of itself as a measurable phenomenon), psychology has offered many different therapies for rapists, all of which have failed. Period.

    Psychology is a great discipline in a lot of ways. And definitely, psychology helps us approach the question of the rapist by offering several different “models” of rapist behavior that helps us put together a picture of the mind and motives of rapists. However, psychology has failed as totally as Fundamentalism has failed in addressing the mind of the rapist in terms of curing him or of preventing recidivism among rapists and child molesters. Many psychologists who work with victims of child molesters and child molesters themselves, have very little faith in treatment programs, which do universally fail.

    Psychology is certainly a great help for victims of child molesters. I certainly advocate counseling, as long as the psychologist has a proven track record and no history of abuse himself or herself (which is so common in California that now all referred patients, by law, must receive a pamphlet before counseling begins, instructing them that sex with a counselor is not therapy and is inappropriate).

    As we seek to prevent rape and child molesting in churches, and as we seek those methods that best help victims, let’s not go off running after new gods. The old gods we ran after failed us, and new gods will, too. We’re not going to find an answer by thinking psychology can solve the root problems here. So far, in all written literature, those men who most successfully cease from sexual predation are those who come to experience remorse. And psychology cannot induce remorse, no more so than Fundamentalism can.

    Psychology provides excellent descriptors and means of analysis. But it has not yet produced any cures for rapists and child molesters. Those are its limits. Because it gives us understanding, it can help victims.

    In the end, man is a creature of free will, and those men who destroy their own free will (which can certainly happen) must be held accountable for that.

  37. Another popular counseling “expert” famous in fundy circles is Jim Binney, who has a special counseling “ministry” to pastors and their wives who have serious problems. He gives absolutely horrid marriage advice, which always centers around the “no doubt the problem is with you” philosophy. I find his arrogant attitude extremely irritating. When listening to him preach at the recent BJU Bible Conference, it was all I could do not to get up and walk out. After having lost his wife of 41 years to cancer less than a year ago, he bragged about being in the market for another woman (including a story about lifting up his shirt to show off his big pot belly–gross). He also told a very insulting joke about why dogs are better than wives. I can’t imagine what kind of advice he would give to a rape victim (well, actually, I can). Ugh.

  38. “I needed professional help (and still do). If a person leaves the IFB and does not enter some form of professional counseling, they are probably still toxic at some level. Professional counseling helps a person see these issues from the outside– something none of us were allowed to do. ”

    @ Jocelyn – I liked that quote you made. I know I could probably use that same kind of help, too after being brainwashed by fundies. It feels frustrating sometimes though for me when that kind of help is not readily available, considering where I live and the cost. I’ve been trying on my own because of those reasons I’ve stated. The best therapy so far, is change of certain attitudes one at a time, and just living my life as it was meant to be.

  39. @charlene: that’s why I read and comment here: free therapy. I’ve also found it extremely helpful to read everything the library has on the history of fundamentalism, memoirs on fundamentalism, and books on spiritual abuse. This site and those books have been allowed me to step back, analyze my 20+ years in fundamentalism, rethink how I think about things, and heal.

  40. @amanda
    While I agree that this site can provide free therapy, on the flip side, sometimes I have to step away from this site for the same reason a recovering alcoholic doesn’t go down streets with a half a dozen bars on it. It sucks you in, and dredges up hurts you want to put behind you, if you catch my drift/analogy.

  41. @charlene: understood. We’re all at different stages in our recovery from fundamentalism. I can’t always finish (or start) some of the videos that are posted here. (((charlene)))

  42. So, this adult is told by a minor (presumably still a minor) that she was the victim of sexual assault by a child molester who was never incarcerated or otherwise brought to justice for his actions and the responsible adult encourages her to MAKE CONTACT with him again, putting her at possible risk of another assault. Also, the adult does not consider that this child molester is still ‘on-the-loose’ and could be doing the same to others and does not feel compelled to report this assault so as to protect current or future victims? I thought teachers and other adults in authority were REQUIRED to report such information. Or is that unless you are at fundy camp?

  43. “Did it ever occur to anyone that possible mom and daughter lived together for quite awhile before step dad ever came into the picture. There’s always that adjustment period. If step dad had a problem with the daughter showering with the door open and walking around in a towel he should have mentioned it to mom.”

    Umm. . . Did I miss something? Was there any point in this speech where it was stated that even happened? If not, why would you even think to wonder if this happened?

  44. I have read all the comments on the BJU sermon. I personally would have asked first and foremost were the Law Enforcement contacted after the Rape’s were disclosed by the victim?
    I personally believe that *all* Clergy have an immediate responsibility to advocate contacting
    Law Enforcement upon learning of such violations of State Law and Statute in regards to Rape and Pedophilia assault especially when such assaults are on children. No exceptions. From my Biblical point of view the responsibility by Clergy is two-fold: 1. To the Lord Jesus Christ in accordance with Matthew 18:6 and 2. To the Powers that Be-that are ordained of God according to Romans 13:1-7
    To me there is a distinction between what may be observed as bitterness and what is actually delayed stress,anxiety,personal pain and the toxic consequences of being betrayed in so callous a manner . The trouble is from my perspective as a consecrated and ordained Chaplain of the Christian Faith, too many Pastors and Deacons in the IFB react exactly like the speaker in the BJU sermon. I base this on my experience of over 35 plus years as a Born-Again Believer.
    My wife and I spent close to 20 years in the IFB Movement until the time that a number of Pedophiles who were in positions of so-called spiritual Leadership molested a number of children in the Church and Christian School. This came about while simultaneously the Board of Deacons attempted to silence a Deacon who discovered inappropriate shuffling of Church Funds which resulted in the Deacon and his Family being subjected to so-called Church Discipline–including the Deacon’s daughter-in-law who was pregnant at the time –the Deacon,his son and the pregnant daughter-in-law all being “handed over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh”. I myself took a stand against the Pedophile actions when I learned that one of the Pedophiles had actually molested children in two other Churches upstate and had never seen the inside of a Police Station because the so-called Church Leadership in both previous Churches had talked the Families involved *not* to contact the Law Enforcement authorities because the “cause of Christ” would have been injured… The Pedophile himself was later arrested but not for molesting children. He was arrested for transporting drugs across State Lines by Police authorities and tried and served time in Prison.
    I was rebuked for daring to speak out against what was going on by one particular individual who stood up citing the Roberts Rules of Order . Ironically this same individual himself was later arrested for raping his own daughter and placed into Prison.
    I state this simply to recount my own experience and what was the impact of everything that went down in the SC Lowcountry ? It was worse than anything I ever have experienced.
    Just imagine spending close to 20 years of your life living the life of a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian and watching it all implode before your very eyes. The Joy that came in the morning was the realization of the difference between true Liberty in Christ Jesus and the spiritual enslavement of living as a 20th Century Pharisee.
    Sorry for the length of this submission…
    Chaplain Bill Herrmann
    You can find me on Facebook.

  45. While Rand certainly and vastly fails to address very crucial issues, I don’t think he deserves the scathing reviews he’s getting here because he is actually teaching a very important part of healing from the rape experience= FORGIVENESS. He is dead on when he talks about bitterness being something that takes the joy out of your life. Now, do these girls need to get the law involved, get some counselling and loving support from the body of Christ? YES. Does he say it? NO. He jumps immediately to their responsibility and says nothing about the support they need to get and that Christians should RUSH to give them. But what he is saying about forgiveness and bitterness is true, despite his narrow explanation of the topic.

    He is not blaming the victim, rather he is pointing out to the victim that she can’t change the past but she can change the future through shaking of the chains of her fear, anger, bitterness, and isolation through forgiveness. Only the Holy Spirit can enable her to do these things and help her achieve healing this way. BUT IT IS CRUCIAL. He is not “blaming” her. He is telling them her truth… Could he be more sensitive and supportive in how he does it? Yes. Very much so.

    I am very concerned by the spirit of some of the comments here that are so eager to turn around and blame the “fundies” or “bju.” Certainly there is a real problem with their teaching, but are we not the Body of Christ? Does not Paul say in James 4: ” 11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?” We argue that this is what fundies do, and it is certainly at times very true, but I fear that some of us run the risk of turning around and having very damaging attitudes that divide the body of Christ when it comes to unity in love towards our brothers who are conservative to a fault.

    I myself am very glad to no longer attend BJ and to be free from the legalism of the teaching I often received there. But they taught me much truth as well. I just had to learn to discern what the Bible actually said from what they made it say. The thing that grieved me most about attending that school was the way they separated themselves from other members of the Body of Christ. But if we who are free under grace treat them with slander and disrespect as well, are we any better?

    Food for thought.

    “Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.” Col. 3:14

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