Although there may be many things that a fundamentalist pastor will instruct his congregation to do, ” get a second opinion” will never be among them. For a fundamentalist, truth is not found by listening to all the evidence and getting as many perspectives as possible. To the contrary, it is only when a person has finally shut out all voices but one that he may be sure that he has found the absolute, total and perfect truth. Truth is just another word for no dissent.
Like the man who wears two watches, how can anyone be sure that he has the truth if more than one point of view is present? It is so much simpler to subscribe the views of one preacher. One church. One camp. In the multitude of counselors there is…way too much bothersome information.
You hear only the sound of my voice…
To illustrate this point, here is a fundamentalist pastor describing the best way to get counsel…
And on the left you will see Exhibit A on how Gnosticism is alive and well…
I suppose the voice of truth that he is referring to is his? Did it ever occur to him that one guy can get it just as wrong as the majority?
What a dope.
Furthermore, Exhibit B, to your right, shows that anti-intellectualism is also a fundamental part of modern fundamentalism.
“Counseling sometimes is often nothing more than counting noses.”
Can I see that sentence diagrammed?
A Fundy who speaks against Christian Radio. I’m curious. Is he the pot or the kettle?
@Josh
Yup, yup. It is a fundamental. Freedom of thought/information is the worst enemy to maintaining a culture of control.
And it’s all in the roots of the movement. Intellectualism was cool when it was all about Baconianism. Ever since that whole “modernist” fiasco… well, we just can’t allow that to happen again.
“Speculation is likes noses: Everybody has one.”
I can’t even begin to guess what that is supposed to mean? Everyone has a speculation? We should having our noses fixed/truthed/removed?
For the record I think this guy may have some kind of freako nose fetish? I think had 3 references to noses, and none of them seemed normal?
@Jordan I’m putting that sentence in some kind of free styling/form stream of conscience sentence formation. Pretty sure Couseling is the subject. it’s unclear if the counselors or the “patients” are counting noses, although neither is actually identified in the sentence. LOL. Flavor Flav couldn’t “write ’em like such” much better/more convoluted.
I think he was trying to invoke a much cruder expression without actually saying it or getting himself in trouble. Noses was probably just the first body part he thought of to substitute.
“Counting noses” & majority rule, that’s how just about all independent & Southern Baptist churches operate (and there are many others too). I love how they “call” a preacher to become their pastor: Have the potential “candidates” submit a resume, the top 3 “candidates” give either an emotional sermon and/or an intellectual discourse to show who’s the better choice, the congregation votes on the “best” candidate, & he accepts and voila! – we have a new pastor. It’s just like how Paul told the church to call a pastor?? If people would actually practice what’s in the Bible instead of a lot of man-made traditions, think what would happen – the church would be more like a bride and less of a harlot. No wonder the world laughs at us. Don’t even get me going about “missions”, specifically “home missions”. People need to study not only the theology of the Bible but the ecclesiology too.
@Darrell, I guess I haven’t been outside fundie land as I thought? I’d always heard the ARMPITS cause they stink, apparently it’s the other A, not armpits (which also stinks).
If all your sayings contain euphemisms….you might be a fundamentalist.
@Darrell Sounds like another SFL: Euphemisms! 🙂
“Speculation is likes noses: Everybody has one.â€
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
I’m assuming that the Lone Voice of Truth would be that of the pastor’s.
Maybe he has never heard of the proverb:
Pro 15:22 Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed.
@Darrel and Rob: Euphemisms should definitely get their own post.
@Jordan 2nds my motion! All opposed? Same-signed. 🙂
PS Is that “same-signed” what you mumble at the end of a vote in business meeting? I’m never sure exactly what that is…
I liken it to the ostrich who keeps his head in the sand.
BTW, the reference to speculations being like noses, is incomplete. The saying goes something like “Opinions are like noses: everyone’s got one and they all smell.” This is a sanitized version of another part of the body that doesn’t smell, but rather stinks, if you catch my drift.
“one isolated man of god”
Darrel, I understand that this site is intended to be humorous, but there are times when it makes me weep. *sigh*
@Rob
In context, it goes something like this: “All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. All opposed, same sign.” That was from the fundie church I attended where the pastor, who wasn’t well versed in Robert’s Rules, ran the business meeting.
@John
You mean the one that goes, “Opinions are like @$%holes; everyone has one, and they all stink”? ; )
@Josh, I’m pretty sure that’s what he was alluding to, but saying “speculation is like NOSES: everyone has one” doesn’t imply speculation stinks, and speculation isn’t same as opinions. I don’t know what “having a speculation” is. It’s a very convoluted turn of a phrase. And definiltey was just trying to do the same “ram the motion through, limiting nay votes” on getting a “euphemisms” post for SFL! 🙂
@Darrell, hilarious find, btw.
Fits very nicely with the prevailing speculation that the preacher, being the “oracle of God” (let’s not even get started on that one), is specially knowledgeable about anything on which he cares to opine. Obviously if the preacher is preaching ex cathedra then he’s right and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong.
Wait. Ex cathedra. I thought fundies had serious reservations about that concept in general?
How many times did he say, “May I say?” Why didn’t someone just stand up and say, “No you may not. Shut the hell up!”
This was big in the Fundy church I left. The first question I was asked after sharing my concerns with a church leader was, “What books have you been reading?” followed by “Have you been listening to sermons on the radio?”.
As for the nose fetish, maybe some is putting Kilroy graffiti on his property.
Great post.
Or, “who have you been talking to?”
Because talking to people outside the church is the sure path to destruction.
If you change a few words here and there to identify the “many counselors” and “teachers” as fundy preachers and you have my perception of Fundyland’s current condition.
This was big in the Fundy church I left. The first question I was asked after sharing my concerns with a church leader was, “What books have you been reading?†followed by “Have you been listening to sermons on the radio?â€.
Us too! Once they heard we were not only listening to John MacArthur but purchased the book “The Gospel According to Jesus” we were warned to be careful where we placed our allegiance.
Is there any issue or question in which they would respond with the words, “I don’t know.” Is it possible that there are some questions that have no answer or at the very least that the answers are inconsequential?
Reminds me of when I was young and heard ministers railing against having your remains reduced to ashes. For the life of me, I’ve been unable to find any Biblical prohibitions against this practice.
@Sister Marie. . .That’s what the heathens do (reduce their remains to ashes), whereas the good fundamental, independent Baptists are always buried. This makes it easier for one’s body to be resurrected someday. 😉
See also: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2009/05/burial/
Nice that he included the obligatory dig at President Obama. Without that this would have been incomplete.
Beware of the person who says, “I want to give you a piece of my mind.” Chances are, he doesn’t really have enough “mind” to be able to afford to give a piece away.
Interpretation: If you listen or read someone else you may see just how unqualified I am to be a “Pastor” and I want to keep my control over this group of people. Remember if you are not for me you are against me, and you should not question god’s self anointed. Remember Acts 4:13, it is my claim to the pulpit. I have the anointing! I am He-Pastor!
He-Pastor? Master of the Fundiverse? 😀
I just heard a fundy preacher say how ignorant Roman Catholics believed that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday when everyone knows “the math doesn’t add up”…
insert eye roll here.
I’ve heard the Good Friday Math before, too. It’s just fundies being ignorant of history and the concept that people in the past didn’t count the same way we do. Throw in a bit of puffed-up pride at having the correct gnosis and you’ve got a good fundy fad.
@Morgan I’ve heard at least one entire “sermon,” not counting other rants, dedicated solely to the preacher’s pet theory on the day Jesus was crucified. Depending on the preacher, that could be either Wednesday or Thursday.
@Sister Marie & RJW: There is actually more of a basis for opposing cremation than the arguments of Fundies. Traditionally (going back to the early Church) Christians have believed that the body, bearing the image of God, deserves to be treated with respect even after the spirit departs.
In the early Church cremation was also associated explicitly with paganism–Roman and Greek remains are extremely rare because they cremated virtually all of their dead. Another factor was the prevailing atmosphere of stoic, gnostic, and epicurean ideas that held the human body as a terrible trap for the spirit. Respecting the body as the “temple of the Holy Ghost” and not seeking to annihilate it after the spirit’s “escape” set Christianity apart while simultaneously illustrating some of its most important doctrine.
Thank God I’m in a mainline denomination where they believe God’s will is done through the majority.
“Come away from the windows folks, all the Jesus you need is right in here…. Deacons, secure the hatch, we are locking down the bunker… Your Pastor has the CON… be not afraid I will lead you to the kool-aid…”
is that Rob Bell?
Is there supposed to be a link to audio/video of a sermon here? It’s not showing up.
fixed.
Here we have a case of fundy preacher basically saying, “I know what the Bible says about it, but…”
He makes the mistake of equating counseling with “taking votes.” I agree that it isn’t wise to make decisions based on the number of people who say yes/no. The point of counseling with others is asking them for an opinion and an explanation for that opinion. Then, when you make your own decision, you can do so with a wider perspective. Always a good idea for us humans, since we are imperfect and often get caught up in our own personal perspective.
I notice that, instead of using the opportunity to exalt the Word of God as the best and final authority when making decisions, he exalts himself and the “pastorate” instead. Why should we just assume that the pastor (or anyone who styles himself as a “man of God”) is automatically true, above all others? How sad, not to mention egotistical.