162 thoughts on “Hiding”

  1. First?

    So you can find out that the pastor obsessive compulsive about cleanliness and talks to his staff like they were kindergartners?

    1. I bet the last church I was fired from – that pastor words “I had to get rid of her” cause some backstabber told him I’m paying some man too much attention – has a Manuel. I’m surprised we didn’t get copies ourselves

  2. I will take my prize of second, and skulk away…

    This church is in my own backyard, and they run buses around my neighborhood. I almost visited, but the more I heard, all I could hear was, “Danger, Will Robinson!”

    1. Dear Josh:

      And the faith so small…

      Christian Socialist

      PS: …a unified system of thought and action.

      That says plenty.

  3. That’s cuz good ole’ Jack doesn’t want to get up in a scandal of any sort! He watched (along with our former cult leader) their buddy, Greg Baker, go down.

      1. Well, I do know this because our pastor was good friends with the Baker family. He committed suicide by car in the garage. Now, what I have HEARD is the reason was he was having an affair with his secretary and apparently it was all coming out in the wash so rather than facing the music, he committed suicide.

        1. I had heard rumor that he was operating like a predator. Wasn’t sure if there were lots of ladies involved or how old they were…or even if this rumor was true.
          I do recall all online questioning was being shut down, and he was being cast as an excellent pastor who was under too much stress.

        2. The stress was from trying to hide his affair! When he spoke at other churches, he required a hotel room — that was so he could go out at night looking for ladies of the evening to “save”. Yeah, he was a predator in a really nice suit!

      1. Very unrealistic. I’ve been in dozens of airports, and I still haven’t found one where I could understand anything said over the PA.

  4. “I have placed a great deal of prayerful effort into this manual, and I expect every staff member to know and follow these instructions.”

    As a pastor, I would never even consider writing a manual for the church staff on my own. That is too much power given to a pastor.

    And how manipulative. “I’ve prayed and the result is this manual” pretty much implies–“you disagree, bring it up with God.”

    1. Good observation. What gets me is that normal, non-sociopathic people have a natural revulsion to this kind of thing. I can understand a disturbed person taking this tact; I have trouble understanding anyone else taking him seriously.

      1. Well, that goes without saying, Zla’od. I pray before I post everything, therefore, my Facebook and Twitter feed are all inerrant and infallible.
        Dr. Fundystan and use to be fundy–
        it is disgusting how they manipulate in this manner. I use to fall for that line all the time…but now I cannot even bring myself to tell my parishioners “I’ve prayed about it and this is how it is going to be…”
        On another Facebook page, there are a couple of comments who have chastised anyone who calls out a pastor for poor doctrine or practice…..It amazes me and scares me how much power people want to give their pastors.

        1. Ugh, I know! I can’t really judge them though. I used to drink the Kool Aid too and fell for all of the bullshit.

        1. As far as someone like Trieber is concerned, if there is a difference between his opinion and God’s opinion , then God needs to get with the program and come around to his way of thinking.

  5. Dear Jack Trieber:

    Not to worry — I downloaded the document from the last time Darrell posted. I doubt I’m the only one to do so.

    The internet is a strange and wonderful thing where nothing is ever really permanent, and nothing is ever really gone.

    Christian Socialist

      1. (One example of the Streisand Effect is that now when you Google “Steisand,” Google tries to complete it as “Streisand Effect,” before Barbra Streisand’s full name or anything else she has done, or the name of any other Streisand. Babs can’t be happy about that.)

        1. And Trieber doesn’t seem to understand that his decision to remove this staff manual has only served to bring discussion about it a new life. Ha!

        1. I thought Boruff might be in some version of the IFB witness protection program (Just IMHO: he took a fall for Trieber – Trieber denied knowing about Michael Zachary’s “immorality” – which now is denied anyway since charges were not filed – So why did Boruff have to quit again?).
          This is a 2015 sighting at Faith Baptist Church in Wildomar, California:


  6. Well, if anything, he should be ashamed of that crap job of formatting.

    And I never thought that instructions on what to eat Sunday morning, or that you must use Armor All (TM) on your tires, were appropriate things to put in a staff handbook. 90% of that document is simply ridiculous.

    I also noticed- it seems that he expects that if you quit/are fired, that you’ll be leaving town, preferably quickly and quietly. Really? Really? He can tell you where to live and where to go? I’ll tell him where to go…

    (And yes, I’m still alive. Been very ill, and I’m SICK of doctors, but I’m alive.)

    1. First, glad you’re back! Keep getting well!

      As far as getting out of town, Santa Clara has a population of over 120,000, which is next to San Jose (900,000+), and his church is not the most prominent one in the South Bay (it doesn’t matter how nice the facilities are, my understanding is that they are hurting for both attendance and finances). A former staff could easily melt into the background.

      I just think that Trieber is one of the worst cases of inflated ego that I have ever seen.

      1. Having attended there a few times, he comes across as a kindly old grandpa figure that just wants everyone to have a good time in Christ.

        Most of the stuff he (apparently) believes is not obvious to occasional attenders like me.

        I believe that the late Jack Hyles had the biggest ego I’ve ever run across.

        1. That’s the trouble, GR. It’s like lulling the lobster to sleep in tepid water before turning up the flame. Most people dunked suddenly into crazy recognize it for what it is.

    2. It’s wonderful to see you here again Liutgard.

      And regarding Jack’s apparent admonition that a person resigning from or being fired by his organization get out of town in a hurry and cut off relationships with those still on the inside, words fail me. Well maybe there is one word that comes to mind although I’m not entirely sure of the pronunciation– @#$/^&*#$@!&^/*!

      1. It is a hallmark of a cult.
        He does not want to give former staff the opportunity to talk sense into current members. He would demand the same of former members if he thought he could get away with it. I went to a similar church, and the pastor warned the congregation about former members, saying that they lie and could not be believed.

      2. Dear Ben Padraic:

        That would be all the excuse I needed to ‘stick around.’ You’re still a great church, right Jack? You’re still a great pastor, right Jack? You’re above board on everything, right Jack?

        Christian Socialist

  7. What is with the font size and layout? I guess I should just trust the pastor, after all he is privy to more details than I’ll never know! Lol

    Well, they lost me after about the 1,000th command but I think they forgot to list a few, such as “when walking, place on foot in front of the other” “breathe” but most importantly “RUN! Run from this impossible list of demands designed to bring glory to your pastor at the expense of your personhood!”

    I might remind them, “Never write in private what you would not want read in public.”

    I can’t decide if this is hilarious or terrifyingly insane.

        1. if you take 622, then de-increment the last two number places by 1, and add that 1 back at the beginning of the number, you get 1611.

          My math uses the fundy common core authorized version

  8. Could it be Mr. Treiber is having a harder time attracting new staff?
    IMHO, it is good for them to know *in advance* what they are in for.

    1. As I recall from the handbook, he claims that the job of the staff is to exalt the pastor, and the job of the tour groups is to exalt the pastor.

      I seem to remember Jesus saying And I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.

      Perhaps instead of exalting Jack Trieber, they should try exalting Jesus Christ?

  9. Assuming the facsimile of the manual is accurate, I’ll observe that it doesn’t have a copyright statement/date. If the manual hasn’t been copyrighted, then it’s there for the posting.

    1. I also suspect that the objection is really only to the nature of this blogsite. Were the manual posted on an IFB, there’d likely be no problem.

    2. I think (but not 100% sure) that under the current laws, something doesn’t need a copyright statement to be copyrighted…

      I think that there are people knowledgeable in this field who read SFL, and perhaps can comment on this… from by brief look on the web, a thing is copyrighted the moment it is created, regardless of whether or not it has a copyright mark.

      1. Fair use exception does not cover posting the entire work; one can quote parts of in to comment upon, but not post the entire work.

        1. I think (which is to say that that I think and don’t know for sure) that I probably used an imprecise term here. Fair use is academic and some other stuff and you are entirely right, you can’t just take the whole thing. I don’t think news actually falls under fair use so much as its news. I should probably look it up since I’m relying on memory, but I see the news post full documents all the time.

    1. Which begs the question, does this mean no traveling during church time at Jack’s church, or during church time at a church in the town you happen to be visiting? If Jack’s church, is that your local time or PST? If vacation town church, which church? Gloryland Baptist? Bethel Baptist? Certainly not St. Francis Catholic…

    1. Mostly because it is a distraction, probably. If one has to count $126 in one-dollar bills, and someone wanders in, you could lose count.

      Also, many people haven’t learned discretion… if they see envelopes or checks with names on them, some people will blab it all over – “Did you know that the Johnsons gave $300 to the visiting preaching? Wonder why they gave so much?” or “Hey, the Smiths tithe was only $25 – looks like he needs to get a real job.”

      Back when I counted money and prepared the deposit, there were at least two of us, and we were cautioned to keep information gleaned from the amounts and envelopes to ourselves. We shut the door where we counted (we may have locked it — I don’t remember that far back).

    2. As if embezzlement hasn’t been a problem at these churches.

      I have unfortunately learned to never put cash in an offering plate – because it is not traceable. A former deacon stole about $300,000 over 4 or 5 years by pocketing cash donations while counting money in the super-secret closed room.

      1. If multiple deacons count money, I don’t see how that ever happened… I mean, 300,000 over, say 5 years is 60,000 a year, which is about $1000/week which is a LOT of $20 bills. Not sure how he did this

        1. Yet he did. Now this is just my personal opinion, but I am suspicious if he was just the only one caught. I was told the church chose not to go after him personally (the state and IRS did). Teens who get caught making out with their boyfriend in a car get little grace, but this guy seemed to be showered with it. He is back on a bus route today (no longer a deacon, thankfully).


        2. Now when we contacted the local police and the state police, they said unless someone on staff was willing to file a complaint, we couldn’t do anything about our bookkeeper (who was the head deacon’s daughter) embezzling anywhere from $30,000 to $75,000. We never could get King Tommy to give an actual number but the former bookkeeper had to step down from her position and from choir because she was singing country music at the local community center. Well, that’s only 1/2 the story — she had to step down because yes she was singing country music down at the local community center with a guy, but she was also sleeping with the guy, and he was old enough to be her father, but on Sunday, there she was arm-in-arm with her husband in the pew. Her “sin” was known by 1/2 the congregation yet King Tommy did nothing. WHY? Because former bookkeeper’s dad was a big tither. In fact, he gave a parcel of land to the church — a parcel of land that butts up to the church property. Yet, he still farms that land! So what that means is every crop he pulls out of that field is TAX FREE because the property is in the church’s name! But King Tommy’s reputation is above reproach! Why is that Baptist preachers try to convince us of that?????????

      2. Ha I remember that guy from my LBC days. Creeper… But with every scandal they go through the 3 stages, distance, deny and pull the rug back over the mess.

    1. Well, I clearly would not fit in. I have idiotic hair that is quite fuzzy. If I use lots of product and styling, I can smooth it, or de-frizz and make the curls nicer. But who has time for that? Maybe Sunday morning. Otherwise, I look like Roseanne Roseannadanna.

  10. The Book of Leviticus has less rules!

    Some doozies I found by skimming: (I’m sure there are many more.)

    “While you are on vacation, do not travel during church service times.”

    “Men should get professional haircuts regulary. Every three weeks would be the maximum amount of time that should elapse between cuts.”

    “Wrap around string ties (sissy ties) should not be worn.”

    Craziness. And what’s sissy about bolo ties?

    Colossians 2:16-23 must not exist in the IFB KJB

    1. About “traveling during church service times”–meaning Treiber’s church, the nearest IFB church or what?

      And suppose you’re on vacation in a different time zone, particularly if you’re overseas?

      1. The idea is that, even when traveling, one should attend church — don’t schedule a plane, train, or bus trip when the (local) church is meeting; he wants his staff members to attend church wherever they are and not use the excuse “I had to be at the airport for my flight”

        1. If you want to know why, see his instructions about how you should be sure to talk up Trieber whenever you visit another church.

        2. Does he realize how much time it takes to park your car, get to the airport itself via shuttle bus, get ticketed, check your baggage, let TSA grope you, get on the plane, watch 200 people scramble for seats, finally take off?

          Upon landing, go to the baggage claim area and wait, wait, wait and wait some more for your bags to appear? Then go to the car rental place, sign your life away, resist “upgrades” for a slight additional fee, then FINALLY make your way to wherever you’re going?

          Last weekend my wife and I flew from Baltimore to Hartford/Springfield. The flight itself is only an hour and fifteen minutes, but the entire process took most of the day.

          Yes, we flew back on Sunday!

        3. He probably knows; he just doesn’t want people traveling on Sunday (“the Lord’s day”) or Wed.

          I used to go to a church where the pastor preached against traveling on Sunday when “you’re supposed to be in church”. I’m sure, that to the staff, it was an order.

      1. I know a few kids who attended this “college”. Die hard Kool aid drinking families who have no problem sending their offspring to this institution, where they spend a shit load of money for a worthless degree that won’t get them a job better than a burger flipper.That is unless they are the pastor’s kids and then Daddy will give them a job.

        1. This was exactly the situation at my fundy ex-church. GSBC was the “elite” school in that church’s Pastor’s deluded version of reality.

  11. You know what is sadder than this manual? The dopes who willingly choose to submit to it.
    Unless this is some type of spoof or parody, which is what I’m inclined to believe. Nobody could be this insane….

      1. Come on now, he doesn’t have any “weird” rules like no pajamas with legs for women- as long as they aren’t wearing “men’s clothing” or “any clothing that could be worn outdoors (like sweats)” to bed, all is well! Now that right there is CHRISTIAN LIBERTY!


        How long did it take him to think all of this up? It makes my head explode. I’d call it the Ultimate Guide for People Who do Not Want to Think.

    1. when my wife taught at a fundy school I teased her about the faculty handbook because I didn’t think it was a real thing. Then she came home with it from teacher inservice and I found out that my little hilarity was not hilarious because those rules actually were in writing and she was (and by extension I was) being asked to submit to them in order to work there. The joke was on me. It was in fact worse than I had anticipated in my teasing

      Reality was as long as you weren’t obnoxious about it and you were still a valued member of the inner circle, those rules really didn’t apply anyway, but they were there in writing in case they needed a reason to sack you.

    2. Those “dopes” who willingly submit to it were taught for years that they should be willing to give up EVERYTHING to follow Christ. It was drilled into their heads that the highest honor for a Christian would be to go into full-time ministry. Objecting to a few “silly” rules would be seen as shameful and selfish; standing up for one’s rights would be seen as sinful — a Christian is supposed to DENY himself and follow Christ, after all.

      People raised in this from infancy and sheltered from outside views might take a long time before they realize that God is NOT actually requiring this of them and that they can still live a godly life without sacrificing every vestige of personal liberty.

  12. He is a Maranatha grad, and I don’t think that mbu qualifies as a school that he would recommend, because it is not a ministry of a church and it is not KJV only, even though KJV, might be the only version used publicly. He seemed to be quite fond of Jack Hyles. Hyles did play a small role in the founding of MBBC and spoke there each year at their annual Soul Winning and Missionary conference until about the late 80s.

    When I traveled for a summer Maranatha group, we sang at his church. He mentioned in his sermon, that we shouldn’t use the hectic because it was the same as saying hellish.

    1. Fundies and their silly etymology. Santa is a scrambled version of Satan, blah blah. “Hectic” comes from the Greek for “habit or the way somebody just tends to be.” Originally it was a medical term. When TB was becoming a horrible scourge all over the U.S., the term “hectic fever” became widely known (TB patients get fevers all the time). After that, “hectic” became a way to say “frenzied and busy, the way people with fevers may experience an energy burst.”

      Back on topic: If your church has a special set of documents viewable only by the elect, you are failing at one of the basic characteristics of Christianity. Gnostics do that. Scientologists do that. You? Don’t do that!

  13. I’m still reading and will probably have more comments, but I find it odd/humorous/sad/controlling that he lists the chores to be done on Saturday and what to eat on Sunday morning. Apparently the people he hires are not smart enough to know how to keep house and feed themselves. Thank goodness he’s there to set them straight!!

    1. In his eyes, no, his staff is not smart enough to think for themselves; that is why they need his guidance as to how to run their lives.

  14. I bet there’s a sign in the choir room stating to not bother auditioning to sing if you can’t run a vacuum or clean a window.

    And as far as taking a gift to the pastor………how many Bibles does he really need? Wouldn’t a more practical gift be food for their church food pantry or games for the youth group or something for a church ministry rather than something just for the pastor?! Taking a can of peanuts sounds pretty lame.

    Does a visiting pastor man want flowers in his room???? My husband (although not a pastor) would not care about flowers at all.

    It’s so awesome that people who have morality issues or legal issues will have all their business explained to the board, but they are not allowed to retain any friends from the church.

    So it’s okay for kids to be in a dysfunctional home that doesn’t support doing any work at home, but it’s not okay for these kids to be behavior problems—-it would be the teacher’s problem if the kid can’t behave.

    I wonder if they play Musical Chairs to see which staff members get to sit up front b/c that is a requirement but probably there’s not enough front row seats for everyone. You could do the old “there’s a Bible on the floor!” routine to see if people get up so you can steal their seat…………

    1. Oh our grandson went to the “Christian day school” at our church from K4 to 3rd grade — one month into 3rd grade, our daughter pulled him out and put him in public school. When he got to public school, they tested him — the kid was dyslexic and couldn’t read! No wonder he was acting up in school! However, even though I actually having a teaching degree (unlike anyone at the Christian day school) and kept telling the principal (who was no pal to anyone) and his teacher that I thought he was dyslexic. “Now, now, we don’t want to label him.” Well, they had no problem labeling him as a trouble maker when he acted up because he couldn’t read!

  15. I’m sure this has already been commented on at one point, but here goes.

    As a physician, I read with particular interest the parts about medical insurance and medical care. First of all, staff who turn 65 are told they have to get “Medicaid”. MedicaiD is for the Destitute. What they mean is MedicarE for the Elderly. You’d think a guy who insists on Armor All for his tires would pay better attention than that.

    Also, they are told that they can’t schedule doctors’ visits during normal business hours.

    Just when do they think doctors’ offices are open?

    So if you work there, you are only supposed to use urgent cares/ERs for your medical care? Not only is that the most expensive/least effective way to get care, God forbid someone have a chronic medical condition that requires monthly to quarterly appointments to monitor. And if someone is on coumadin, they get to go to the coumadin clinic or their doctor’s office anywhere from 2x/week to 1x/month depending on their level. How can an employer even begin to demand that? That’s potentially putting someone’s health in jeopardy.

    What a control-freak.

    1. Basically was Jack and our former pastor (who was Jack’s room mate in college and is one of his best friends) is saying is be sick on your own time!

    2. Obviously if you have a chronic medical problem it’s because you are allowing sin in your life and God is chastising you. So, if that’s the case, you aren’t qualified to work in the ministry.

      1. At our last “couple’s retreat” that we went to, the guest pastor/speaker had the nerve to say that if someone in your church has cancer (which I am a breast cancer survivor), it’s because someone isn’t properly tithing!

        1. Oh, what a horrible thing to say to someone! How they twist the Scriptures to get their desired goal!

          I am sorry you endured such abuse and hope you found a better place.

        2. No, I haven’t found another church — but I’m o.k. with that. I don’t need an actual building to have a relationship with God. I can talk to God, pray to God, and sing to God anywhere I like, and He STILL hears me! That last couple’s retreat — we figured they were either trying to “get us back on board” or “get us out”. That was the strangest couple’s retreat! First, when we arrived, we always took the last room on the left at Youth Haven Ranch near Jackson, MI. When my husband tried to check in, he saw that the pastor and his wife had taken the room we usually took. NORMALLY, they would stay in the other hallway with the guest speaker — not with the “rest of us”. When my husband took our cooler to the kitchen, the head deacon’s wife looked mortified when she saw my husband. She didn’t even say hi to him! When it was dinner time, the pastor and his wife insisted we sat with them even though there was another table with only one couple sitting at it. We were going to sit with them so they weren’t alone. Pastor made everyone scoot over and make room for 2 more people (us) at the table. That night, the guest pastor said the comment about a person having cancer could be because someone wasn’t tithing! Ironically, his wife has had two occurrences of breast cancer — guess he’s got a problem with nontithers!

          My husband was ready to pack up and leave that night, but I was a glutant for punishment! I figured we paid for the thing — we were staying to see what they were up to! Of course, after the “skit” Friday night, our former pastor put on a presentation for us giving my husband a $50 gift card to our favorite restaurant for all his hard work and all the things I did behind the scenes. Prior to us actually leaving but AFTER we had decided to leave, my husband had brought home probably 5,000 to 6,000 slides that our pastor wanted transferred from slide to digital media. Of course, me being a technology geek, my husband said, “sure, My Wife can do that!” Now, for me — my integrity is EVERYTHING. My husband had volunteered me so I committed to it and transferred all their slides to digital files — that’s the blurp the pastor said about “all the things I did behind the scenes.”

          The next morning at breakfast, we sat with the guest speaker and his wife (I was trying to be a support to her as I was through with treatments already). Ironically NO ONE ELSE would sit at the table with us and the guest speaker! Not even the youth pastor and his wife who were good friends with the guest speaker!

          After the last session, my husband went down to our room to put our bags in the car, and I was in the kitchen gathering our stuff. By the time we got out to the car, there was only 1 car from the couple’s retreat besides ours left! EVERYONE was GONE!

          Now, as a 7-year breast cancer survivor, I know the reason I got cancer is not because God was out to punish me. I got cancer because I was one of the lucky few whose cancer cells — yes, we ALL have cancer cells in our body — decided one day, “LET’S MUTATE!”

          Jay Croft — sorry you are one of the fellow survivors, but glad you are a survivor, too! How many years???

        3. My church believed the same. When I got diagnosed with cancer, my grandma sent me a card telling me she was praying that “God’s will would be done”. I thought, “Gee, grams, you couldn’t pull out all the stops and ask God to heal me?”

          When my great uncle died somewhere near 80 years old, she said it was because he was a sinner. I told her he died because he was old.

        4. If someone has cancer, it’s because people get cancer. No more to it than that. Some of the most morally virtuous people in the world have had cancer. So have some of the worst. The same goes for other illnesses. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike,

        5. Yep, Big Gary, every person has cancer cells. It’s just when and/or if your cells decide — MUTATE!

        6. Our son was diagnosed with brain cancer at age four. We weren’t tithing. That pastor is cruel.

  16. From the book of Jack:

    “When staff members resist his ideas, Pastor will be quick to agree with them. When they offer their own ingenious solutions instead
    of implementing his, he will often point out the merits of their thought. However, just
    because Pastor is gracious enough to agree with people who resist his plan, that does not mean he is at all interested in following their
    plan. His verbal agreement is simply an attempt to avoid conflict in order to preserve his ability to be innovative.”

    And he put this in writing? Wow.


  17. freeatlast
    NOVEMBER 14, 2015 AT 1:55 AM
    My church believed the same. When I got diagnosed with cancer, my grandma sent me a card telling me she was praying that “God’s will would be done”. I thought, “Gee, grams, you couldn’t pull out all the stops and ask God to heal me?”

    When my great uncle died somewhere near 80 years old, she said it was because he was a sinner. I told her he died because he was old.”

    Sorry that your family, FreeAtLast, wasn’t supportive for you. You picked a great screen name cuz if you left your toxic church, you are FREE AT LAST! Don’t let narrow-minded people bring you down!

    When I was going through my cancer treatment, I did not look at it as a burden, a trial, or a punishment. I looked at my cancer as a journey because I knew the reason God was allowing me to go through this and survive was so I could be an encouragement to others! I STILL look at it that way — God gave me a unique opportunity to minister to others!

  18. I have lurked here for years, and rarely post. But on this, after reading only as far as “Presenting GSBC on the Road” I have to say:

    Are you freakin’ kidding me?! Telling people what time they should be in bed, and what to have for breakfast on Sunday mornings?? Not sure I can read the rest; getting a bit nauseated.

  19. Garbage. Cannot believe I allowed myself to be subjected to this crap for so many years in other like-minded churches.

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