144 thoughts on “Give Me Sex Jesus”

  1. I love how the lack of punctuation gives us a title that goes both ways (nudge nudge wink wink)… You could have either “Give me sex, Jesus” or “Give me ‘Sex Jesus'” – and both, I’d argue, would work. Now I’m off to actually watch the documentary…

    1. More proof that they create weak men who need to be sheltered to avoid sin. It is again up to women to preserve their thought-life. Pathetic .

      I am reminded how the Duggar girls/women use code word “Nike!” to warn the boys/men to advert their eyes. Heaven forbid they catch a view of a woman who is not fully covered to their standards. They end up over sexualizing everything. And this system helped to mold Josh Duggar’s views about women and little girls.

      Who is the better man?

      The one who requires women and girls to be fully covered so he can behave appropriately, or the one who behaves appropriately because it is the right thing to do?

      1. Who is the better man?

        The one who requires women and girls to be fully covered so he can behave appropriately, or the one who behaves appropriately because it is the right thing to do?

        Very well said.^^

      2. Did anyone else get the impression that he married her to try to control or end his struggles with purity? I mean, his definition of purity was her. He married her because she was hot. He talked about issues with porn. I’ve heard marriage promoted in Fundyland as a way to end all sexual struggles, this couple gave me that kind of vibe.

    2. By the way, I thought they were mispronouncing “Namibia” there, but I looked it up, and there actually is a place called Nambia. It’s in the Democratic Republic of Congo. So that’s one thing I learned from this film.

      Whether they meant Nambia or Namibia, breastfeeding does go on there (as everywhere else in the world), and if guys can’t handle it, they need to grow up.

  2. That was great – to hear honesty and not spin. I’m giving the pro-purity voices the benefit of the doubt that they were being completely honest. It’s hard to give that benefit because I don’t find a lot of it to be true – keeping pure and waiting for marriage results in no guilt? What about impure thoughts, as some pointed out? We are taught that thoughts are just as bad as actions

    I’d like to see a part two of interviews with fallen pastors, who would give a completely honest recount of their thoughts and actions when they “fell,” and how they justified in their minds continuing to preach during it. Without the-devil-made-me-do-it spin, Haha! Yeah, not gonna happen

    1. They act as if everyone who had premarital sex ends up feeling badly or guilty because of it. Isn’t it possible having former sex partners does not negatively impact some marriages?

      They are being very simplistic.

    2. I am not sure I watched the same video as you. You heard honesty. I heard fear. You heard people wanting to be pure. I heard shame.

      These poor people are so afraid and so ashamed of natural urges and natural feelings that one guy could not watch a documentary on a culture where the women were topless. He couldn’t watch a documentary where women breastfeed their young. I think it is ok for a guy to feel attracted to a woman who is nurturing. Yet this poor guy has been shamed for his entire life that he cannot acknowledge healthy feelings and learn how to keep himself from moving to unhealthy feelings. he has to shut down. That is not honesty. That is enslavement to a religious system of shame.

  3. Dear SFL Reader:

    This is just a guess, but I’ll go on record as saying that this will be a high volume post.

    People make all kinds of irresponsible statements. This video contains several such statements. God wants our sexual life to flourish? Your life will be richer, your marriage will be deeper — you promise?

    Exactly how do you know these things to be true?

    Doing everything ‘right,’ some have married a non-heterosexual. Such ‘marriage’ goes nowhere. The word ‘stillborn’ comes to mind. I don’t propose pre-marital or naysay abstinence; but as the heterosexual in such a ‘relationship,’ I challenge our video speakers to emulate my marriage and go decade after decade after decade experiencing sex not one solitary time.

    If you and your spouse are still together after that, then come and tell me how premarital abstinence enriched your life and deepened your marriage. Unless or until you do that, I feel free to indicate that some of the video speakers stand in violation of the ninth commandment.

    Christian Socialist

    1. Some people are actually asexual- no interest in sex- or can go through stages of asexuality. For instance, to be a little funny, I’ve heard Tim Gunn described as a “homo-romantic asexual.” I have been a “hetero-romantic asexual” at times. It doesn’t sync well with marraige unless both partners are 🙂

      1. Dear Dwelling in Imladris:

        I became aware of asexuality around 2007 after that study from Brock U [St. Catharines, Ont] was published. I didn’t use the term because it is still not known widely. But that is exactly the issue. And whatever this is, I wouldn’t call it ‘marriage’ because if it is, the premise of marriage becomes decidedly more difficult to believe. The truth is, I need to stay away from the ‘purity waits’ types as it would be too tempting for me to denigrate and insult their sexuality.

        Christian Socialist

        1. I’ve also been at one time in a marriage where my partner wasn’t into sex. So frustrating, and one-liner verses from fundies like “don’t deny each other” doesn’t help anyone.

        2. Yeah. Asexually in one spouse v normal desires in the other are a recipe for disaster.

          I have often wished I’d had some sexual experience before marriage so I could have made things better for my wife. But the Church wanted us naive and dumb and to think it ecstasy.

          Most people won’t admit to a miserable sex life with their spouse. But it is common. Trying to learn better things is unholy and unclean and wicked.

          I admit to not knowing the answer. I just think there has to be a better way. Somehow.

        3. Dear rgtmath:

          You wrote: Asexually in one spouse v normal desires in the other are a recipe for disaster.

          I reply: That is my life story. If I have learned one thing from this decades-long charade, it is that asexuals cannot be in an adult relationship because their orientation does not sustain an adult relationship.

          When we wedded, I had no idea that there were people like that. She is a good person in every respect. Yet she herself once asked me how are we to know if we are like this when we abstain from any and all premarital contact.

          Some of the assertions made in the video evidence that their speakers are either blissfully unaware of asexuality or else they are deliberately dishonest with it.

          Christian Socialist

      1. Dear Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:

        I found it to be an act of heartache because I knew that I needn’t even think about worship for another six months…

        Christian Socialist

  4. Absolutely incredible. I wish we had been shown this film as teenagers. There is no truer statement than when they said that “guilt came from social conditioning”. According to what we were taught, the only worse sin than premarital sex was being gay, but it wasn’t Jesus telling us that. It was adults using fear and authority to condition vulnerable minds. We were taught that if we had sex before marriage, we would never have a good marriage because you’ve ruined God’s plan, but if you waited, then God’s perfect plan would play out and your marriage would be a naturally beautiful thing. No one taught us that marriage is hard work and that it isn’t just about sex. You go into it thinking that since you waited, everything is going to be perfect, but it isn’t. And people are kidding themselves if they think that being told for 5-10 years that “sex is wrong, you’ll feel dirty if you do it” has no effect on your thoughts after marriage. There are so many women who have been raised in the IFB community, including myself, that have waited until marriage and have still struggled with intense guilt because you cannot change your mindset overnight. Another damaging side of abstinence teaching is if your purity is taken from you without consent, you’re told it’s still your fault so you’re living with the compounded guilt of losing your purity, making a Christian man fall into temptation, and the natural human emotions that come with being an abuse victim. I also appreciate how the film addressed that purity cannot discussed without discussing race and how it also boils down to purity always falling on the women. I could write ten more posts about this topic, but I’ll refrain… The older I get and the more I reflect on how damaging the church has been to myself and others and how it continues to harm people, I find myself growing further and further away from the ideas of God that I’ve always had. I’ve been through so many churches and denominations after leaving the IFB church, but am realizing at the end of the day, it’s just the same thing with different packaging.

    1. I like the girl who pointed out that the church teaches that sex is bad and dirty and sinful, so do it with someone you love and are married to.

      There’s a massive disconnect in how the church thinks about and teaches about sex and how sex is actually experienced in real life by most people.

      I wanted to slap the guy that was saying he tells guys that masturbate that they’re acting gay “just to give them something to think about”.

        1. Anyone with any sense knows that a normal, functioning human being over the age of 13 that is not masturbating, will actually have orgasms in their sleep. It’s the body’s way
          of releasing natural fluids and chemicals.
          May I add that the poor Fundies that had to sit through this film….. Just watching something like this can make a person horny. What were they thinking???

      1. It’s only gay if you think about guys while you’re doing it (assuming you’re a guy). Not that there’s anything wrong with that, mind you… 😮

        1. First, the claim that masturbation is “gay” is a huge logic fail; and second, who cares if it’s “gay”?
          Jocelyn Elders was right: It’s criminal that young people are taught to feel guilty about masturbating. I don’t care if you’re thinking about a man, a woman, a giraffe, or a boulder while you do it. The point is to enjoy yourself.
          Don’t make it any more complicated than that.

        2. If a man ignores biblical warnings about self-abuse, there is always the danger that his finger may penetrate himself from behind, and stimulate gay feelings that way. That is often how it starts.

        3. So then, I presume you’ll be happy to supply chapter and verse where scripture prohibits masturbation?

      2. Ugh.

        But I also hate the whole bullsh(t they spout when they say “but God created sex to be beautiful JUST WITHIN the context of marriage”…AS IF A F(CKING MARRIAGE LICENSE OR PRIESTLY BLESSING MAKES A PHYSICAL ACT BEAUTIFUL OR UGLY.

        So. Many. F*cking. Lies.

        I’m furious.

        1. This is funny! I’ve been married for many years and there’s been MANY times when sex was unpleasant, unwanted and unfinished.
          The men teaching these things must have one H*LL of a sex life!!! Phew!

    2. Dear A:

      It should also be noted that in Jesus’ day, puberty often arrived later because of dietary issues. And people married much earlier. To this day, a Jewish male comes into manhood at what — thirteen years, I believe?

      Fundamentalism degenerated theology into wretchedness and made endurance of it a virtue. Fundamentalism is has become an aberrant belief system. Those are blessed who realize comparatively early that it is not the genuine article.

      Fundamentalism cannot heal but only break because it itself is broken theology. How poignantly do Jude’s words, the half-brother of our Lord, describe Fundamentalism’s giants: caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted’ [Jud 12].

      Christian Socialist

      1. It’s sort of revelatory to realize that years of sexual abstinence is not a traditional requirement, except for members of some religious orders. Until the last century or so, puberty typically did not occur until the late teens, and most people were married by then, or soon afterward.
        Also, there were other sexual outlets for unmarried people– with prostitutes, with members of the same sex, with older people, or in secret, and that included alternative stimulation (manual, oral, or anal, or other) to avoid full-on penis-in-vagina sex.

        1. BG, granted the earlier onset of puberty, how are the other factors (ways to avoid full on penis-in-vagina sex) any different than today? Or are you implying a difference?

          So a certain president was right when he said, “I did not have sex with that woman!” because he didn’t insert tab P in slot V, but slot O instead?

          Certainly you’re not asserting the alternatives mentioned are amoral.

        2. All I’m saying is that people are about as sexually active now as they always were, not more so.
          Which is a data point against the “purity” movement’s
          claim that no sexual activity (except to make babies) is normal.

    1. This needs to be on a bumper sticker, along with this from Christian Socialist, above: “Fundamentalism degenerated theology into wretchedness and made endurance of it a virtue.” They just might get someone to think for the first time.

        1. Ha! I’m still relatively inexperienced with stick, so I have a fear of stopping on a steep incline in traffic.

        2. Leo,
          You may want to try pulling back on the hand/parking brake when you’re on a hill, and depressing the button on the brake with your right hand to keep the brake from locking in place. As you begin to engage the clutch and depress the accelerator, the brake will keep you from rolling into the vehicle in back of you and you can release the brake when you feel your vehicle is able to move forward. With a little practice, coordinating the clutch, accelerator, and hand brake should be pretty easy.

        3. Thanks for the tip. Mostly I just need practice until I’m no longer jelly-legged in a situation I’m not used to. So it is with everything in life.

  5. I love this. I watched it beginning to end. I wish I’d seen it earlier in life. Purity culture didn’t help me be abstinent; it just made me feel really guilty. They promise you the world:
    -Be abstinent and God will give you a good spouse early in life.
    -Be abstinent and men will treat you better.
    -Be abstinent and your relationships will be beautiful.
    -Be abstinent and your life will be perfect.

    None of the above were true. I’m almost thirty; no husband in all my years of abstinence. I didn’t have my first kiss until I was twenty. The men I was the most “pure” with were the ones who treated me the worst. They were emotionally abusive, controlling relationships. They were not beautiful. And my life was no more or less perfect than it was after I stopped being abstinent.

    Purity culture lies. Those who have lived their lives abstinent until marriage can’t possibly say that their marriages are better because of it because they don’t know how it would have been if they weren’t.

    I get wanting to prevent teen pregnancy and STDs, but condoms do that very well.

    I took the purity pledge. I even have a purity ring. None of that stopped me from having sex. It may have delayed things a bit, but that’s all.

    Purity culture told me that sex would change me, make me a different person. It didn’t. I’m still me.

    Purity culture lied.

    1. Purity culture lies – exactly. Abstinence until marriage means freedom from guilt? No. Maaany years ago when I was a virgin and had never yet kissed a boy I still had severe guilt because of fantasizing.

      But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

      It’s a no-win situation

      1. They have to build it up to sell it. Because premarital sex is a pretty victimless sin, they have to pretend that the consequences are horrific and the rewards for abstaining great. Never mind that teens often call their bluff and basically turn out completely okay except that they’re forced to lie now.

        I appreciated the girl who said that you develop different groups of friends who know different things about your life: this is true of me. I have friends I can tell anything and friends I never will because they would never accept what I had to say.

        1. “I have friends I can tell anything and friends I never will because they would never accept what I had to say.”

          I once heard that we may, in our lifetimes, have 1 or 2 real true friends. We probably won’t know who they are until near life’s end.

          Acquaintances are Not friends.

    2. “Those who have lived their lives abstinent until marriage can’t possibly say that their marriages are better because of it because they don’t know how it would have been if they weren’t.”

      Very good point. What can you say to people who have created their own bizarre little reality and insist that it is everyone’s reality?

        1. Furthermore, I now regret almost every opportunity for sex I passed up, but none of the ones I followed through on.

        2. Big Gary ~ He is the most sought after man in the world
          “I don’t always count my opportunities for sex, but when I do I use a calculator”

        3. From your lips to God’s ears, Dwelling.

          The ironic thing is that I was so stupid/naive/inhibited that I didn’t recognize most of those opportunities until long afterward.

        4. I wouldn’t be able to recognize an “opportunity” if it came right out and said it was one! And if I did, I’d probably be so scared I wouldn’t know what to do except run. Not because I am so spiritual or anything, but because I am so blasted unsure of myself.

          Not that I’d want to hurt my wife or cheat on her. If there were a way to know good sex and have a good sex life without hurting her or my children or anyone else, well, maybe. I still wouldn’t know what to do, or how. I keep reminding myself that sex isn’t everything. But it is significant, at least to me. And to be told by preachers that if you aren’t having a fulfilling marriage in that area then you are doing something wrong just adds a load of guilt crap that I would rather do without.

          And no. I don’t believe God has or will “bless” me for being faithful. I just don’t want to give up. I swore an oath as “for better or worse,” and I meant it. And again, from the Fundamentalist Perspective that God is Providentially in Control of All Things, there sure has been a lot of worse for all the good intentions and prayers and sacrifices made.

          I recently had to remind my wife that I really did need for her to communicate with me daily while we are in different localities. Somehow she hadn’t been able to remember to text me or to call me (she can always get me when she calls, I always get her voicemail) or to respond to my texts. I got pretty upset. It took a fair bit of backpedaling on my part before she agreed to try harder.

          One thing is certain. God is not fair. (I know, I know! the fundy response is, “but He is Right and Just.” I don’t buy it anymore.)

          So I will stick it out and remain clueless as to any “opportunities” out there. I don’t expect any miracles. I don’t even expect things to be better, even marginally. I just hope they won’t get worse. I count and give thanks for every blessing, large and small, hoping God will not count me ungrateful when I cry about the hard things.

          Sorry to make the group a place for airing sorrows. But fundamentalism has heaped it on us, the most intimate places of our lives included.

        5. Like I said earlier, the body will naturally have orgasms in your sleep to relieve all the sexual tension. It’s only natural.

    3. “Purity culture lies”

      Yup. Exhibit A: Anna Dugger. She followed the rules, but her marriage is a complete and total wreck. There are so many examples of this.

  6. I also hope this blows up online. People need to watch it and talk about it, and confront what it discusses.

    There is a lot of evil in this world.

    The worse things in this world are justified by belief.

    #done.

  7. I am so angry. “Bitter”. Finding passion and drive in my anger.

    My life was stolen. Not once. But twice. And almost three times.

    All these lies. All this bullsh*t.

    I want my life back. I want my dreams back. I want myself back. I want my time back. I want my opportunities back. I want my hopes back.

    I want what was stolen from me. I deserve it.

    And I wil f*cking find it. I don’t need permission. I won’t let anyone tell me no ever again.

    I want my life back. And I want to be free of all the bullshit that is fundamentalism, evangelicalism, American Christianity. The longer I’m away from it, the more healing, the more health, the more success, the more peace I find. Why would I ever go back.

    I’m done. It gets better. It f*cking better.

    1. This isn’t Christianity. What does abstinence have to do with Christ. What does fundygelicalism have to do with Christ. What does right wing conservative politics have to do with Christ.

      Absolutely fucking nothing.

      This isn’t Christianity. This is the bastard demonic remains of the Reformation, Puritanism, and Revivalism.

      1. Me, too. Except I’m still stuck. I love my wife. I don’t want to abandon her. And she is still a fundamentalist in so many of the ways that matter.

        She recently went to a ladies’ conference where the theme was “holiness.” How in the world can that improve a marriage? All that sort of thing ever means is that there is more frigidity, less response, less initiative and less caring about others because God is so much more important than people, including husbands.

        Oh, I am not saying they actually say that. But I wonder, because that is so much the result.

        1. Either I’ve got a dozen comments stuck in moderation, or I literally can’t post on SFL from work, lol. Which, since my IT manager is fundy to an extent…lol, who knows.

          I’m sorry it is that way, rtgmath. There’s a lot of evil in this work. ‘Holiness’ is one of it’s buzzwords. Always has been.

          The worse things in this world are justified by belief. Holiness, a sense of getting back to what’s pure, being pure. Pure to what? If the answer is not love, then whatever it is, is evil.

    2. Dear StuartB:

      You wrote: I want my life back. I want my dreams back. I want myself back. I want my time back. I want my opportunities back. I want my hopes back.

      I reply: This leads to the observation that fundamentalism is like a Chick tract — in reverse…

      Christian Socialist

  8. Very interesting, very thought provoking. I’m still processing many of the things covered in the video.

    I hope I will not be attacked for having a slightly different view than many posters, but the teaching of abstinence until marriage is in of itself not such a terrible thing — it’s the idea that “God’s gonna zap you, and you’ve ruined your life if you do have sex before marriage” that I think is damaging. Also the idea that it’s the worst sin a person could possibly commit, which is not true or biblical.

    Personally abstinence until marriage worked for my husband and me, and we are both glad of it (we married in our late twenties). The single years were lonely and tough at times but they helped us grow into an independent adults. Interestingly, I’m not sure how to explain it, but experiencing physical intimacy within marriage has somehow made us both less rigid, less judgmental of others, and more accepting and appreciative of our humanity and the humanity of others.

    While we were definitely trying to please God by remaining abstinent until marriage, for me, it was just as much if not more so about being true to myself. As a young adult who had survived severe abuse as a young child, what I feared most was the idea of feeling violated again. Abstinence until marriage, and then marrying my best friend (after much deliberation) put me in control of my sexuality and was very empowering for me. Being married to a good man who treats me with dignity and respect and treats me as an equal has also been very healing for me.

    I’m not saying that abstinence-followed-by-marriage is a cure-all for every abuse survivor, but that’s how God worked in my life to help me move past some of the pain. And I’m not saying it was a cure-all for me either. I still can’t think about what I went through without crying (and having an occasional nightmare), and I think that will always be the case until Revelation 21:4 is fulfilled.

    1. I’ve thought about it for nearly half a century now, and I do believe the teaching of “abstinence until marriage” is a bad thing in and of itself. I also believe it is without a strong Biblical foundation. As one of the experts in this documentary notes, the Bible says many different and conflicting things about sex and about marriage, and you have to be very selective in your Bible reading to construct an American conservative Christian norm from it.

      But I agree with everthing else in your comments, WorkinMama.

      In particular, life experience seems to be making me less judgmental of other people’s decisions. I can respect, for example, another person’s commitment to sexual abstinence (just please don’t call it purity), even if I don’t agree with that person’s reasons for it.

      What still outrages me morally is gross hyocrisy about sex, as when Congress members in the midst of adulterous affairs try to
      impeach the president for an exramarital blow job, and when preachers consort with rentboys in between sermons against gay sex, and when a Bristol Palin gets pregnant out of wedlock for the second time *while getting paychecks to promote abstinence until marriage.* That kind of thing I still find worthy of severe condemnation.

  9. I grew up in an earlier generation. I did not grow up in any church – the viewpoint I absorbed from family and culture was that a woman who would have sex with a man before marriage was easy or a slut, and that no respectable man should marry such a woman. Men were, in theory, to be experienced, and not judged badly for having sex before marriage. I admit that this view is very biased against women. Once I began attending church, we were taught that neither men NOR women should have sex until after marriage. So, I waited (not that I am anything; it was just an earlier generation in which it was not respectable to have sex before marriage). My wife waited also. We’re glad we did, and we’ve just celebrated 28 years of marriage.

    Having said all of that, I agree with whoever said that abstinence is no guarantee of success in marriage.

    I do think that abstinence until marriage is a Biblical principle.

    1. Congratulations on 28 years!

      I would definitely agree that abstinence before marriage is a Biblical principle, but does not guarantee a successful marriage. I’ve met a number of women who were abstinent until marriage and were literally beaten within an inch of their lives by their husbands before they were able to escape.

  10. BTW, I don’t mean to come across as though I don’t have any issues with the so-called purity movement. In some circles there is definitely a double standard where girls/women are held to a different standard than boys/men. Also the idea that if someone has sex before marriage that they are “used” and no one will want them. We’re talking about human beings made in the image of God, not paper towels that you use and then throw away. Another issue is the lack of sex education, even education about basic human anatomy.

    And I could go on and on, but my blood is starting boil.

  11. I believe, too, that abstinence before marriage is biblical. My husband and I have been married 31 years and knew no other. I do think it is important to be drawn sexually toward a person. The wrong is when young people are taught that it is evil. Commitment is what needs to be taught before marriage and staying abstinent during dating helps couples to focus on that part, I really do believe, My two cents.

    1. But how do you know if you are “drawn sexually to someone” if you barely even touch? Only finding out after marriage that sexually chemistry is a thing and you and your new spouse don’t have it is a cruel joke. That’s my experience, anyway.

      1. Dear MyKneesAreShowing:

        Welcome to the ever-expanding club of those who loved and lost [see mine above, and Dwelling in Imladris’ reply]. My heart goes out to you both. My sad mistake was to stay in that relationship, determined to make it work. After 20 years, I’d had enough. I told her to pack her personal effects and move to the guest room. Haven’t slept with or seen her neked in decades. But neither have I gone outside. Nor have I ‘outed’ her outrageous behavior since I promised to protect her.

        The issue is not the incompatibility of any two people; the issue is that one partner’s asexual orientation is incompatible with marriage.

        Those who blithely deny ‘incompatibility’ – would they stay with a spouse who year in and year out refused to honor that marriage?

        I have to wonder.

        I do know that those who have never seen asexual absence of desire are in no position to make such promises. The struggle this involves does not darken their mortal comprehension. Where you say ‘cruel joke,’ MyKneesAreShowing, I say ‘unremitting and unrelenting hell.’

        Difficult as my way is, her journey is no picnic either. To be sexual is not in her nature. She experiences sexual touch of any kind as a personal violation. She has detested me because I am heterosexual, yet lives with enormous guilt knowing that her response toward me is wrong. But because sexuality is so much a part of our personhood, she is not capable of another response. This is who she is.

        Christian Socialist

  12. Congratulations on your fine Christian documentary film! I only watched the first few minutes, but it really preached the gospel and rebuked that spirit of immorality whom we know as Satan, and who is devastating today’s youth with his lies. So your warning is very timely.

    Jesus says that if your right hand causeth you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you! For it is better to go to heaven without your right hand, then to fap in hell. Yea, His Word is true and His mercy pure.

    And how much worse it is for a man to lie with another man! Sexual relations are meant for the bridal chamber, not the toilet of the truck stop. For those who would dignify such filth with the name of “marriage,” I challenge you to google what it is they do, and watch the photos, if you can stomach such depravity.

    But think not that the casual fornicator is any better! It is like giving your child a serpent in place of a fish, or a stone in place of bread (lawful marriage). Truly, no fornicator shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven lest he repent and be washed in the Blood of the Lamb!

    God bless you and you fine work! I also hope that your presidential candidates may see this film, and be challenged as to how they would combat this horrifying epidemic of fornication which is even now sweeping your great nation.

    1. I don’t want to make assumptions about your locality based on your username, but your message reads to me like you’re not from the United States. For a few examples, in Russia, LGBT people are persecuted by the police, and in some countries in Africa, LGBT people are in danger of being murdered if found out. So if you’re speaking from a country that treats LGBT people in some way along this continuum, you sir do not have the moral high ground from which to speak. If God judges America (and I’m not so sure that God actively punishes countries, instead of simply letting them experience the consequences of their actions after a while), it will be for our pride and greed, not because we showed compassion and grace to people who didn’t agree with theonomic / Levitical law as interpreted by extremist fundamentalist Christians.

  13. I’m only 10 minutes in and anti-fundamentalist, etc… but two observations….

    1. I stayed abstinent before marriage and have ZERO regrets. Thus far, I’ve seen nothing that changes my mind. I’ll continue watching.

    2. The women advocating sex before marriage thus far on the video are butt-ugly. Flame away, but I’m speaking the truth in Trumpesque terms.

    LeoN

    1. #2 is an ad hominem argument, but I have to say that the man who (I gather) started the whole True Love Waits/Purity Ring movement is the ugliest physical specimen in the entire movie. So there’s that.

    2. ” Flame away, but I’m speaking the truth in Trumpesque terms.”

      and that’s the problem… aside from the fact that you would want to emulate a misogynistic a.hole, I hate that people are o.kay with saying whatever they want without regard for anyone else. It’s not o.kay to say hurtful things under the guise of “truth”. It doesn’t make you insightful, it just makes you a jerk.

      And pretty women have sex too. And like it. I’m not advocating it, I just don’t see your point.

      1. Dear just the secretary:

        I’m waiting for the anti-immigrant racist and hotel mogul sTrump[et] to tell us how many undocumented Latino women slave and clean his rooms for a mere pittance.

        sTrump[et] may not have sex with these women. But however they look, he screws them over good. Well … it may not be good. But the rest is certainly true.

        Christian Socialist

    3. Dear Leon:

      In a country whose President publicly boasts of assassinations, naming with relish those he has killed, sTrump[et] is hardly our most disgusting political figure. Still, specializing in casinos, golf courses and luxury resorts, sTrump[et] is dedicated to serving the vices of the super-wealthy. Therefore he is a parasite upon the parasites.

      The 515 enterprises in which he is involved evidence near zero productive activity. sTrump[et] differs from the typical American capitalist politician or CEO not in principle or substance, but in that he is more cartoonish.

      That bloviating bullies who personify angry white males predictably become presidential hopefuls evidence the complete inability of the ownership class to create policies that address the multiple crises that threaten to envelop civilization in the New Dark Ages.

      The unwritten rule is that the more desperately something NEEDS discussion, the less allowable it is in America public discourse.

      Enter Donald Trump.

      Christian Socialist

    4. Don’t invoke Trump to try to excuse your own assholery.

      You have decided that whether or not *you* find a woman attractive is somehow related to whether or not she is worthy of listening to. Disgusting.

    5. Seriously….some of you people are as humorless as….er,…uh…. fundamentalists? One of the things I despised most about fundamentalism was that fact that they took themselves SO seriously. Some of you have yet to shake that apparently. Relax. It’s not like I think I’m a major piece of eye candy myself…but I’m not running around trying to get people to have sex with me or anyone else for that matter.

      And Trump is an idiot. Even his fans know that.

      1. Some of us don’t have to run around to get people to want to have sex with us.

        Not that I’m promiscuous or anything. Or the best thing since sliced bread. But people who have sex before marriage are not necessarily desperate or needy. Some of us just like sex.

        I didn’t wait. And except for a period in which I was dating a guy who made me feel deeply guilty about my experience because he couldn’t accept it, and the fact that the first guy I slept with didn’t respect me and I wish it hadn’t happened like that, I haven’t regretted it.

        Fact: personal experience and taste are just that. They don’t actually mean anything by themselves.

  14. So it took me all day to watch the whole thing. Job and all. Anyway, the thing that struck me the most was how the abstinence advocates all seem to have serious hang-ups about sex.

    The perfect example was the couple at the beginning of the video. The man actually told his then girlfriend not to wear certain shirts. At one point–presumably after they were married–she had to hide his eyes while watching a documentary that showed topless women.

    I mean, really?

    That’s just bizarre. That guy has some serious issues, and needs to see a professional. The other two young men (youth pastors maybe?) seemed to be fairly clueless as well. They were obviously in their thirties, but spoke about sex like they were talking about some rare exotic orchid that dies if you touch it.

    Very odd people.

    Is it possible the filmmaker deliberately sought out normal folks for the “sex positive” side, and people with issues to speak about “purity?”

    Thoughts?

    1. It’s possible the filmmkers chose “normal”people for one side, and “people with issues” for the other side, but I don’t think so.
      For one thing, many of the “Purity”advocates interviewed were very prominent people in that movement.

      1. Well, then, I must say that those folks either:

        1) Have some serious hangups and a disturbing level of naïveté, or
        2) Are just playing a role they’re expected to play.

        A grown man who has to shield his eyes when he sees breasts has a serious level of dysfunction going on. What is he going to do when he has a teenage daughter?

        The other speakers all seem convinced that people with more than one sexual partner in their lives are all spiritually and emotionally wounded in some profound way. Not sure I’d want these people teaching my kids about sexuality.

        1. ITband, you are right about the hang-ups and naivete. These people obsess about sex in a really unhealthy way–I know, because I was in that movement years ago. I don’t think the producers deliberately chose people with issues to represent the abstinence side, that’s just how they are. That’s their normal. In fact, that young couple where the wife is shielding her husband’s eyes would be praised in their church for “keeping each other accountable”.

          That couple also sort of laughed at the idea of having sex before marriage to see if you are sexually compatible. That idea is silliness to abstinence people because in their minds if you have the right body parts then you are automatically sexually compatible. What ignorance. What lunacy. Many many couples suffer because of this belief.

          It’s interesting to me that you mention they are just playing a role they are expected to play. I kind of got that feeling from the founder of True Love Waits (?). He’s been preaching that message for years, and it’s his cash cow, so he better keep playing the role. Imagine if he changed his message now after all these years? And that pastor who was trying to be hip with his hoodie yet everything he said was an attempt to control other’s sexuality. He reminded me of Mark Driscoll. I forget his name. He also seemed to just be spouting the party line. It’s his paycheck, after all.

        2. ITBand,

          I think 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive. Probably more of 2. This is how these individuals were raised, and/or what they believed for many years.

          Oh, and the how thing about shielding the eyes because of the breastfeeding woman and her child (eye roll). Definitely juvenile. But I think most Americans, not just Christians or fundamentalists, have sexualized the human mammary gland in a very disturbing way. They’re for feeding children, not for people to gawk at. And the rate of breastfeeding is also pathetically low in this country, which is disturbing from a public health standpoint (not to judge individual women who feed their children formula for whatever reason).

        3. “But I think most Americans, not just Christians or fundamentalists, have sexualized the human mammary gland in a very disturbing way. They’re for feeding children, not for people to gawk at.”

          Too true, though I would add that while their primary function is feeding babies, they are aesthetically pleasing and therefore nice to look at. A simple admiration of beauty is impossible when you are trained to see breasts as shameful or sin-inducing or something akin to a sex toy. Hence the gawking.

        4. Very true, Leo. When we are taught to see our bodies only as sex devices, it keeps us from appreciating how fearfully and wonderfully made a human body is.

      2. Dear Michelle M:

        You wrote: That idea is silliness to abstinence people because in their minds if you have the right body parts then you are automatically sexually compatible. What ignorance. What lunacy. Many many couples suffer because of this belief.

        I reply: This reminds me of the ‘it’s worth the wait’ line. In my experience, it wasn’t worth the wait before marriage, or the work after marriage. My partner believes in celibacy before and during marriage.

        It would be truly interesting for me to see several of these ‘compatibility is silly’ types to be filmed in a room full of people who found themselves married to true asexuals. Moreover, I would love to challenge them to live with their spouses asexually for thirty years and then tell us what a blessing marriage is — presuming that their marriages survived.

        Christian Socialist

    2. The purity people have pretty normal “purity culture” attitudes. Orgasm as worship? Creepy as all get out, but totally normal in that world.

      Part of me thinks that guy has never actually had a worship-orgasm. It’s all theory to him. I don’t think he was married.

      1. If he was one of the folks connected to Mars Hill – if I remember correctly, he was – then I’m almost certain he’s married. That church takes the conservative evangelical norm to a fundamentalist extreme, and if you’re not married, you’re nobody. Hence, I doubt any men on staff as pastors at that church would have been hired without first being married. But having said all that, it’s still creepy AF.

        1. I feel so sorry for his wife.

          I just don’t find worship a turn-on. And I find it weird that other people would want to mix worship and sex. Really, really weird.

        2. Amen!

          I wonder if this doesn’t come from the John Piper school of “do everything to the glory of God” (literally everything, apparently). Again, that doesn’t make it any less creepy; for what it’s worth, John Piper and friends have been saying creepy things for a while now (like the thing about how women shouldn’t exercise too much, for then they’d look more like men, and that apparently turns men on and causes excessive lust or something ridiculous like that…).

        3. I think the creepy level depends on your perspective. If you’re thinking like the Jack Schaap idea that Jesus wants to be intimate with us like husbands & wives are intimate, yeah, that’s way up there on the weird scale.

          However, I can see line of reasoning that makes sense to me: Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights; if there’s something good that we enjoy in this world (children’s laughter, Guinness, pinot noir, sex), it’s because God made it for our pleasure, and He is glorified in our fulfilling the purpose of His creation; sex in the way God intended it is definitely good and enjoyable; when I enjoy good sex I think, “God, you didn’t have to make life so sweet–You could have designed that we would experience nothing more than banal survival, but You have integrated intense pleasure. Thank you!” Yep, good sex turns my heart in thankfulness to God. Ergo, Act of worship.

          Still creepy?

  15. Michelle M:

    I’m not against abstinence per se. I’ve got three children, two of whom are adolescents. If they choose to delay sex till marriage, great. However, I want that to be an informed decision based upon accurate information. I don’t want my children to be uneducated. Even more so, I don’t want them miseducated.

    When my oldest was about 14 our youth minister took the group to one of those “purity” rallies. I think it was called “the silver ring thing” or some such silliness. The whole thing was based on putting a bunch of kids in a highly emotionally charged environment and then hitting them with a sales pitch.

    Pardon me, but that’s neither education, a recipie for long term success, or path to genuine spiritual growth. Fortunately, my son saw right through it.

    I mentioned the pro-abstinence speakers issues/dysfunction because it stuck out to the point that it looked staged. But, if it wasn’t, then I actually feel sorry for those folks. Going back to the couple, had I “averted my eyes” from a topless African lady my wife would have looked me dead in the face and said, “They’re boobs. Get a grip.”

    1. I think if the church is going to try to prepare young people for successful marriage, they should be teaching kids about the fruits of the Spirit, the Sermon on the Mount, the Golden rule, 1 Corinthians 13, etc., rather than running around to a bunch of “purity” rallies. Because a successful marriage is based on treating each other with mutual love, gentleness, kindness, patience, etc. And also a healthy dose of mutual attraction.

    2. Of course teaching about the fruits of the Spirit or the Sermon on the Mount is not near as *sexy* as an emotionally charged purity rally, but that’s kind of my point.

      1. And internalizing–and then living out–the Sermon on the Mount takes genuine effort, prayer, and sacrifice. Also, we all understand, or should, that as we try to live out the Beatitudes we will fail. Multiple times.

        Mots much easier, and to use your word, sexier to have a big event, cheer, cry, and sing for a couple of hours and be done with it.

  16. That was well-done, right up there with the best episodes of This American Life. Speaking of, can anyone think of any episodes from TAL (or other podcasts) dealing with this subject matter?

  17. And may I just say that the lady is right about summer camp campfires being romantic. I spent most of them pining over my current crush (most often a camp counselor)

  18. I’ve only watched half of this documentary, and I do plan to watch the rest. But I have a couple thoughts so far. Did anyone else think some of the “love waits” people were chosen because they are or look weird?

    I grew up with the whole emphasis on purity in church and at Bible camp. It wasn’t something my parents talked about very much because they were so strict with our time and friends they probably didn’t think they needed to. I had a serious boyfriend in HS/college who broke up with me when I told him I planned to wait to have sex until I was married. He ended up getting married very young because his girlfriend got pregnant. I was heartbroken at the time, but I dodged a bullet there. He’s still one of the most selfish, immature people I know.

    I remained a virgin until I was married at 32, and I am very glad I did. During those years, I educated myself about sex. What it was, what role and priority it should be, what to expect. My husband was 34 and he was a virgin, too. We did NOT wait until we were married to have our first kiss. We had what I think was a healthy physical relationship building up to our marriage.

    I think something that bothered me about the documentary was the emphasis on what people think or feel is right or wrong about sex. I may not be a fundy, but the Bible is still my final authority on the matter. You cannot convince me that my sister who has had multiple partners, and now has several children with different fathers with all the legal and emotional problems that go with that, is better off or more enriched because of her sexual freedom.

    I still believe that sex is a gift from God, intended to be enjoyed inside of a marriage relationship between a man and a woman. I don’t believe it’s my job to dictate what other people do. But I don’t believe it’s God’s will or plan for people to just do what they think is right in their own eyes.

    Was I afraid to fail all those years? Yes. Am I glad I didn’t? YES. And I will use the Bible and my personal experiences and observations to teach my children what a healthy sex life is and that their lives can be much more peaceful and joyful if they wait until marriage to the right person. But that if they don’t “wait”, I will still love them just as fiercely.

    That’s all for now.

    1. All I can say is: Birth control. Married people should use it, and unmarried people who have sex should absolutely use it.

      It’s not about being pure or impure; it’s about being responsible.

      1. That’s what I thought too. Having multiple babies with multiple partners is about not insisting on condoms or using birth control just as much as it is about promiscuity. Probably more so.

  19. I look at what Jesus says in the bible, I know many here don’t like Jesus and could care less what he has to say.

    Is love a feeling, or is it a command? I am commanded to love my neighbor as myself and to love my wife as myself. My feelings toward both sway with how they treat me, and that is the issue. If they treat me how I want to be treated then I love them and if not my feelings get hurt and I want to put them in there place and pile drive them to the ground. And then I hear the words of Jesus, love them like you would love yourself. The world is full of self love, in the words of Whitney Houston “learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all”,,,bullshit! It’s the easiest love love of all.

    Before Jesus went to the cross he asked god if the cup he had to drink could be avoided, his feelings said “this is bullshit” there must be another way, but he wasn’t chained to his feelings and he died willingly because of his love us.

    Can we break the chains of our feelings and love our spouses as ourselves? Can we love our neighbors as ourselves, can we love when when our feelings say outherwise? I’m trying.

    1. Your opinion and comment after your first paragraph is duly noted, and is not out of line. In fact, I agree with much of it. But, I have an objection with the first paragraph, particularly this little gem.

      “I know many here don’t like Jesus and could care less what he has to say.”

      Bill, this is entirely unwarranted and hostile. Furthermore, Jesus’ command was not to “love your wife as you do yourself,” but to “love your neighbor as yourself.”

      In fact, Jesus once made a point of telling his disciples they shouldn’t get married at all! He also allowed remarriage for a man who divorced his wife due to adultery (Matthew 20), but the wife who was divorced by an adulterous husband still committed adultery if she remarried (Matthew 5). In fact, an innocent woman was “made to” commit adultery by the divorcing husband!

      Does Jesus have the last word? I try to follow His words as closely as I can, but sometimes He still speaks from a culture that did not value women, saw them as property, and he never spoke at all upon marital happiness. Never.

      In point of fact, many of us have suffered harm from the Sexual Abuse suffered from our experiences in fundamentalism, whether by actual abuse or by teaching abuse. It isn’t that we don’t care. We have been hurt.

      You would do well to remember that, by the way. Because as you live, it is likely you will wind up suffering too. You will want someone to hear you and not judge you too harshly. The same judgment you use on others will be the kind of judgment you receive, the Lord Jesus tells us!

      So then, I am asking you to please play nice. I’d have had no trouble with your post at all if you hadn’t loaded the start of it with snark and insult.

      1. I do think it’s useful to remember that the comments Jesus made on marriage in the Gospels (not very many, compared to how much he said about some other things) were in the context of laws and social institutions very different from our own. For all the bloviating some people now make about “Biblical marriage,” the fact remains that marriage and family structure in Judea 2000 years ago was not like it is for anyone now.

        1. Yup. Absolutely dead on, Big Gary! And fundamentalism doesn’t acknowledge this, saying that the Scriptures are “timeless” (they aren’t) and apply to all cultural situations (they don’t).

          “Biblical marriage” is mostly polygamous, with the idea of “one wife” found only in 1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6 referring to the qualifications for leaders of the church (deacons, overseers, elders). Otherwise, there is nothing said against polygamy! Not even Jesus’ statement about “male and female” in Matthew 19 was not a statement about “one man and only one woman.” Although polygamy was not terribly common at that time, the reason was economic, not religious.

          We simply forget cultural norms and historical truths because they are inconvenient to our preconceived notions.

  20. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

    Rtg, your point is duly noted, in fact we are to love our wives even more than we love ourselves.

    1. Thanks for the note, Bill.

      Uhhh. I’m not sure that is possible. The Scripture doesn’t tell us to love our wives more than ourselves. It does say, “He that loveth his wife loveth himself.” It says for husbands to take the leadership role (assuming the wife or wives to be unequal to the task), the role of spiritual priest leading yet serving, etc. And it definitely points to the Sacrifice of Christ for the Church (Ephesians 5). But it doesn’t say to love her *more* than we love ourselves.

      And in point of fact, such would be impossible.

      I think we forget some things about the Sacrifice of Christ. The Scripture tells us He talked about dying and being raised again (bodily). Death for him would not be permanent, nor even of long duration. He could give Himself to the uttermost and actually have an infinite amount left over. Unlike us.

      And like any analogy, the picture breaks down when taken too far or examined too closely. The Sacrifice of Christ and the relationship between Christ and the Church is not like a marriage covenant in many, many ways. Is the Church individual or plural? Both? How many brides will He have? Will you be a bride of Christ? Is His relationship with the Corporate Church, or with its individual members? You get into pretty thorny theology there if you aren’t careful.

      And alas, I am just the person to take advantage of the unwary, allowing them to get caught in their own theological snares and then pouncing! It is a bad habit, I admit. But I am trying to give you a heads-up. I do theology. But I am learning that theology is not all it has been made out to be. Without humanity, it is as worthless to our salvation as a Savior who did not possess our human nature would have been.

      Hyperbole is easy. But we would do better to avoid it and focus on what the Scripture says. And it would do us good to see reality along with the doctrine or dogma. We do not live in an idealized world, and our beliefs should not be so sterile.

      1. Rgt, so if I love someone enough to die for them, I don’t love them more than myself? You really confuse me at times with big words and long paragraphs. I also don’t appreciate you scolding me on my tone, I don’t post anything for your approval or disapproval. I post what’s on my heart and mind and it is obviously a different opinion than yours.

        1. I don’t think that giving my life for my wife (and I would) would be loving them more than I love myself. I do see that as loving them as I would myself.

          But I don’t think it is more.

          If I would appreciate someone giving their life for me, I should be willing to give my life for others. Sometimes one is able to do what no one else at the time can.

          As for my tone, please understand that I am a teacher, an analyst, and those are part and parcel of my person. I really don’t mean to offend (though I know I do). Sometimes I will offend as a response to someone speaking inappropriately about people here. It isn’t easy to get a balance at times.

          And it is your right to post what is on your heart and mind. As it is my right to try to engage you in discussion, or to object when you characterize people in the group in an inflammatory manner! Remember, we all get what we give. Sow discord, reap it. Be kind and you get kindness.

          Likewise, we do have differing opinions. That’s okay. You get to express yours and I get to express mine. But if someone says the Scripture says something when it doesn’t, I am pretty quick to point out the facts as I understand them. And I don’t mind it if someone provides book, chapter and verse to prove me wrong.

          Big words? Long paragraphs? What? You think I should talk in sound bites like Sarah Palin? Sorry, but this is who I am. I think in those words. I use them. In my mind, education is a wonderful thing. If those are a source of distress for you, I confess I don’t know how to answer. I am who I am. You are who you are. Make the most of it.

  21. I listened to the piece as a whole. I didn’t watch it (didn’t have the time), but started it and stuck my phone in my pocket.

    The film does a great job of pointing out the different perspectives without being judging. I find that refreshing. It acknowledges that there are different points of view, different reasons to view things, and that one viewpoint does not trump all others.

    I do think that a historical – cultural approach to Scripture and Sex is desperately needed. We have allowed ourselves to get “taught” by other approaches that strip out context and understanding.

    In fact, none of the sexual laws in the Old or New Testament have as their predicate the idea of marital happiness or closeness to God or other such. None of them. They were all predicated on the Old Testament understanding that the Promises were tied to your lineage from Abraham, and if you had no proof of that lineage, you couldn’t claim the promises. And of course, you didn’t inherit the promises yourself, but your children would. So you’d better make sure the children you raise up, give your inheritance and blessings to are your own!

    That is why adultery was punishable by stoning. The woman was not to be allowed to bear a child of another man. She and the baby died. Call it abortion. It was, after all. It was assumed that sex during the fertile time would result in pregnancy!

    And the Law of Jealousy was the woman suspected of adultery being forced to drink an abortifact. If she was pregnant, it would cause miscarriage and possibly even death to her. If she wasn’t pregnant she would possibly survive without harm. Maybe.

    In Modern Christendom (well, in Christendom throughout the centuries) we have been sold a bill of goods. The leadership has always and will always teach as doctrines (from God) commandments that are of purely human origin.

    1. But it sounds so good and pure and right! As one of the interviewees in the documentary said, if you just follow God’s plan and don’t deviate from the simple set of rules laid out for all, it will work out every time. (My paraphrase. And I think later the same guy unintentionally admitted that it doesn’t work out every time when he was talking about young people going back on their purity promises. I’d have to watch again to make sure I got that right.)

      Thank you for doing what you do, rtgmath.

  22. The documentary was very informative, but I do think there was some selection bias regarding the people interviewed. The people who were in favor of saving sex for marriage were mostly involved with the so-called purity movement That’s understandable, given that the documentary was about the purity movement. However, there are plenty of people who believe in reserving sex for marriage, who DON’T promote “purity rallies,” “purity rings,” “purity banquets”, pledge cards, etc., who DON’T beat other people over the head with their beliefs, who DO believe in giving young people a solid and objective sex education.

    The only professionals that they interviewed seemed to have a very secular mindset I think it would be been more balanced and interesting if they had interviewed a Christian medical doctor (such as a pediatrician or a family doctor) and/or a Christian licensed clinical psychologist and/or a Christian licensed clinical social worker. People who work in such professions usually have (or should have) a lot of compassion, and understand that there is often a dissonance between ideals and the realities of people’s lives (not just in the area of sex, but in many other areas of life). But that doesn’t mean that every ideal needs to be thrown out the window.

    I did appreciate that they highlighted how sex (particularly adolescent sexuality and sex education) have become very politicized in this country. The right wants to teach abstinence only, and the left wants to act like abstinence is virtually non-existent and/or unattainable for teenagers, and I think both sides do kids a huge disservice.

    It’s been a couple of years since I’ve looked at the data, but the ABC method of sex education has been very successful in Sub-Saharan Africa in reducing HIV transmission. (Or at least relatively successful compared to other sex education programs). In countries where huge numbers of people are dying every year from HIV, they seem to have less political strings attached to sex education. The ABC program is simple:

    A = Abstinence
    B = Be Faithful (if you are sexually active)
    C = Condoms

    To the “B” I would also add “birth control,” but that’s just me.

    On another note, I’m fairly new to this website, and I really appreciate how varying opinions are being discussed respectfully and frankly.

    1. When I said they should have interviewed a “Christian” doctor, psychologist, or social worker in order to have a more balanced perspective from professionals, I probably should have said “a Christian who holds a traditional, conservative view of sexuality.” I did not mean to imply that you can’t be a Christian and hold different views.

  23. On a much lighter note, has anyone checked out the link at the top of the page to the old post entitled “Having Sex Before the Rapture (or before death, whichever comes first)”? I’ve been there, prayed that prayer, LOL!

    A couple of weeks before our wedding, my fiance (now sweet husband) was talking with his fundy then-pastor (the same guy who housed him in the church basement, expected him to be on-call 24/7, and paid him barely enough to buy groceries, all in the name of training him for the ministry). The said pastor started joking that the Rapture was going to take place during our wedding reception.

    Straight faced and without missing a beat, my husband replied, “That’s OK. Then you and [the assistant pastor] can enjoy our cake all by yourselves.”

    He wasn’t kidding.

    This comment is not meant to start a serious discussion on eschatology LOL.

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