207 thoughts on “Nonsense”

    1. I know. This “first” business is such a bygone fad you might as well call it an “old path,” and I’m pretty sure none of us want to have anything to do with that.

    1. I’m a bit confused on that point myself, cause they seem to be calling anathemas down on him like he’d blasphemed and then state that he continues to be a “Maserotic text, Textus Recptus, KJV Man” to this day without having ever deviated. Am hoping later in the comments someone knows what it was that happened.

      1. In fundy land just agreeing with the conclusion isn’t good enough. You must get to the conclusion using the same path. Otherwise your conclusion, though the same, isn’t as strong and allows the possibility of doubt. You have to believe what they believe and why they believe. I’ve seen more than one person removed from ministry over this.

        1. “Doubt leads to Questions.
          Questions lead to Thinking.
          Thinking leads to Heresy.
          Heresy must be Dealt With.
          Blessed is the mind too small for Doubt.”
          — Warhammer 40K

        2. I’m going to pile on with the Warhammer 40K quotes:

          “An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded”

  1. I normally just browse here, but now I’m both genuinely curious and clueless at the same time. Can someone fill me in on the details? Why do I seem to be the only person who doesn’t get the punchline?

    Peace,

    1. Yes, it’s far more important to analyze the exact words Jesus used when he was telling us to care for the poor and the homeless than to actually do what he was telling us. Obviously.

    1. Well, he didn’t HAVE to defend him, but he chose to extend a special dispensation of grace and mercy because the man was blind and they haven’t figured out yet who sinned – him or his parents.

  2. I’m confused. Heartland bible college is grieved? Because of what ever stance this man took? or because he felt it was necessary to resign? (I suspect the former)

        1. I would really, really like to know what he said.

          I also don’t understand how he can be “an avowed Masoretic, Received Text, KJV man” and, at the same time, made statements contrary to the schools position on the Masoretic, Received Text, and KJV.

          Very puzzled by this.

        2. WTF is “Masoretic”?

          From the context, it’s IFB Newspeak for doubleplusgoodthink.

        3. Masoretic (may not be spelled right) text is the traditional Hebrew Scriptures behind the KJV translation of the Old Testament.

  3. “We will not let a notion that we are soft or uncertain on Bible issues go unanswered.” Insecure enough to fire somebody for comments that don’t 100% agree with the party line, sure, but never soft or uncertain.

        1. If the plane’s a rockin’
          Don’t come knockin’

          Gas, Grass or Ass
          No one rides for free

          Now everyone knows my bumper sticker collection.

          🙂

      1. I’m not “camera friendly”, I don’t “wear clothes that fit me”, I’m not “hygenic”, I don’t “own a toothbrush”, I don’t “wipe properly” you all are probably looking for someone who doesn’t “scare children” or “eat their own dandruff”

        – The actions of almost any Fundy authority figure can have parallels drawn ironically to the comedic genius of Chris Farley

        Its a minor corollary of Poe’s Law

  4. To which my wife (a HBBC grad) tells me that Mike always seemed a bit more “liberal” than the rest of the teachers. Which is funny because I never thought that during my time there.

    However over the last several years HBBC has really seemed to pull up the ranks and get “harder” on the issues.

  5. Did the letter about how they had booted the guy out for a minor disagreement actually come on the stationary with the colorful “GROWING in FAITH and CHARITY” logo at the top?

    If so, that’s like irony squared.

        1. Heathens, all of you. Imaginary numbers. Either it’s a number or it isn’t. “eyeroll”

        2. Wow! I remember imaginary numbers from high school. That was many years ago, so I havent a clue how they are used.

    1. when “grace and love” are used to describe why actions are taken that are the furthest from grace and love that any actions could possibly be.

      He could have gotten off easier if he sexually abused a minor. And that is not a joke. Its an inconvenient truth.

    1. I doubt he will be able to get a better job. Having a diploma from an unaccredited college isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. He will end up in some minimum wage, go nowhere job that doesn’t pay enough to feed his kids. Because he’s not a part of the good ol’ boy system he won’t be getting any of those perks either like love offerings, half priced vacations, free cars, etc. Hopefully he figures out he is at ludicrous speed and changes direction. Probably though he will live the rest of his life in poverty and humiliation. No matter what he will be a sermon illustration for years to come.

      1. Actually the pay was probably pretty atrocious at the school. And wherever he ends up working (assuming it is not another fundy institution) he will be able to keep 10% off the top, plus forced love offerings going the other way, weekends to himself etc.
        He will be free. He will have the ability to make a real life for himself. He very may well struggle in adjusting to life outside of the compound but he is so much better off.
        I hope he somehow finds his way to SFL so he can see that he doesn’t have to be a slave to the system. There is sanity outside the asylum.

    1. Wow, Big G, you need to update your reading glasses. It’s clearly a Sacred Desk propped up between Two Pillars. A clear representation of the fundy god – the KJV Bible as preached by the MOG.

  6. I’ve always liked reading statements that say nothing while becoming new examples of circuitous reasoning. I can picture ol’ Sam and the gang trying to write a letter that explains what they did without making themselves out to be petty.
    This letter is a pompous way to say “we had a minor disagreement and the only way for me to win is fire the guy”. It would be nice to know the real reason Mr. Blythe was terminated.

    1. This is SO COMMON in all of fundamentalist Christianity and it just makes you want to bash your head against the wall. “We are filled with sorrow at the departure of Bro. So-and-so for the deed of which he is deeply ashamed and has repented and will be in counseling and spending time with his family.” And the church is left wondering if he raped a child or merely pissed off the preacher. The Bible church my parents attended before becoming fundy did this once when the music pastor was forced to resign after having an affair with a woman in the choir – the senior pastor got up and talked for close to an hour about how “We are so sorry for Peter and he has come to me and discussed everything in detail and Peter will no longer be the music pastor and blah blah blah.” And no one had a clue what was going on and people started freaking out, which really served the pastor right. The NT teaches that if one is overtaken in a fault, we are to RESTORE that person, not throw them under the bus and cover over their sin.

      1. There was a situation years ago at my almost ex-fundy church where one of the assistant pastors resigned out of nowhere. Literally, he was there one day and gone the next and no one except the pastor and the deacon board knew why. He and his family were very well liked so naturally, we were all devastated when we got the “It is with deep regret that we announce that Pastor So and So resigned” speech. What made it worse was that we were told not to question it, or talk about it or speculate so naturally, everyone was left to think the worst. A few weeks after it happened, the pastor even had a meeting with the men of the church about the situation, and still wouldn’t say what the reason for his resignation was which only served as fuel to the fire. It came out a couple of years later that he was having an inappropriate relationship with one of the female staff members; as far as we know, it was not sexual, but they were exchanging inappropriate emails and when he was confronted about it, he chose to resign before being forced to leave. Isn’t it easier in the long run to just be truthful with your congregation rather than being vague and leaving everyone to assume the worst? Can’t have any of that transparency though! Gotta sweep it under the rug. I have more respect for a person who admits their wrong doing and asks for forgiveness than someone who forces said person to just up and leave like a thief in the night leaving people to come up with their own conclusions.

  7. Is it unusual for a Fundie institution to use the term KJV rather than KJB? I thought their view was that Good King Jimmy’s Book wasn’t a version, it was THE BIBLE.

  8. I attended a fundy pentecostal college…and in our class on Acts, the class began to question the pentecostal understanding of the evidence of the Holy Spirit being speaking in tongues, since not every occurrence in Acts of the Holy Spirit coming upon people has people speaking in tongues. And then there was the fact that Billy Graham was offering the gospel and thousands are being saved–Is Billy doing this without the Holy Spirit since he doesn’t speak in tongues?
    Oh the fine line the teachers at fundy colleges have to walk. They either squash all that free thinking questioning attitude of the students and spout the party line of the overseers. Or they risk losing their job. Fundamentalism of any flavor really doesn’t hold up to the questions.
    I want to say I feel sorry for this teacher….yet part of me says “you’re free, run.” But I am aware how freedom means you lose everything in the fundy world.

    1. I am guessing that his transgression was so stinking minor that some other bible college will snatch him up and he won’t miss a beat. I did not read all the comments here, but the letter was not clear exactly what he was questioning. Maybe some tiny textual issue, like what does Matthew 4:2 say “he was afterward an hungred,” or like some alternatives of the KJV state “he was afterward an hungered.”

    2. They either squash all that free thinking questioning attitude of the students and spout the party line of the overseers.

      Oh my gosh. That sounds like middle management in the typical American corporation.

  9. I audit classes at my local evangelical seminary outpost. Their take on Bible translation, using the Greek/Hebrew, and how to work with Scripture is so different, and so much more accurate, than what I learned in Fundydumb. I really feel compassion for this professor, but I hope he can find a place where he can authentically teach the truth of God’s Word. Also, I’ve heard as many different views on certain controversial verses in the classes I’ve audited, but there is a mutual covenant to agree on the essentials of the faith, and not make huge debating points over the inessentials. It has been very refreshing!

      1. so very true….everything is an essential doctrine or essential practice. And for that very reason, any question of any doctrine or practice is dangerous. If one is wrong, it is not a mere insignificant thing, somehow each doctrine and practice holds up all the others. House of Cards.

        1. Which makes people so belligerent and defensive and ANGRY so they’re no longer demonstrating the beautiful peace and gentleness that should come from being filled with the Spirit of God. Instead they’re filled with fear and fight over EVERY LITTLE THING.

          (Sorry if my caps bother people. I’m pretty expressive when I speak and find typing on a page a little too calm at times to express my frustration.)

        2. This is so true, PW and the other side of this coin is that every little thing that everyone does is worthy of scrutiny and comment because all of them become big things. There are no grey areas in Fundamentalism. It is exhausting and nerve wracking. It seems to feed on itself as well and get harsher and harsher with each judgement. I wonder what the end of it will be.

        3. Great points, Miriam.

          It does turn people into judges, lessening their capacity to be loving and forgiving, instead making them suspicious and harsh.

      2. The Presbyterians say “In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity.” The unwritten Fundy version is “In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, conformity. In all things, piety.”

  10. I just want to take a moment and thank the folks that created the inter-net. What used to go in a semi-private setting is now out there for the whole world to see. It was not part of some grand plan, but it has created an environment where fundies and other hardcore, hateful evangelicals are being hung by their own words.

    1. “…but it has created an environment where fundies and other hardcore, hateful evangelicals are being hung by their own words.”

      It’s not their words they’re being hung by.

      It’s their balls.

  11. The rough draft prior to the legal team’s amendments:

    After weeks of argument and the denial of truth, the administration and Executive Directors have summarily fired Mike Blythe from the faculty.

    The issue has to do with truthful statements made in a Greek class on February 25th, that not only do not reflect the Bibliolatrous position of Heartland Baptist Bible College on matters of the Masoretic text, Textus Receptus, and the most holy and revered K.J.V., but are contrary to our position which we already mentioned in the aforementioned beginning of this sentence, but thought that mentioning our position twice would indeed reflect that we are very, very serious about said position, which me mentioned in the first place. While there is a context in which the comments were made, we choose to ignore the context in very much that same manner in which we ignore all other contexts that are contrary to our position, which we mentioned in the previous sentence twice (not counting our mentioning of it in the explanation of mentioning it twice.). Nevertheless, Bro. Blythe’s truthful comments cannot, yea will not, be tolerated! Off with his head!!! We digress. We will not let a notion that we are soft or uncertain on the Bible issues go unpunished.

    It should be noted emphatically, that while conflicting statements to our aforementioned position, which has clearly been defined in other places and is well-known among tried and true avowed fundamentalists, were unfortunately made, Bro. Blythe continues to be an avowed Masoretic, which has been particularly noted and confirmed under the wise counsel of some former CIA staff members experienced in extracting the truth from those who have before made statements contrary to our position, which I need not declare here for fear of overstating the obvious. Under this prayerful [sic], gracious [sic] and godly [sic] counsel, we have not detected the slightest hint that he is anything but a K.J.V. man. Probably no one feels worse about the incident than Mike Blythe himself, judging from his reaction when he was drying himself off after his final counsel session with our gracious [sic] and godly [sic] counselors.

    Bro. Blythe and his wife manifested genuine love for the students and Heartland Baptist Bible College for the last seven years [ironically probably the only statement of truth herein]. They could not have possibly responded to the “process” of the past few weeks in a more godly manner.
    Our entire Heartland Baptist Bible (K.J.V. of course! ) College is delighted that these vermin are gone from our midst and we are determined to show the world that the Christian life is not just about grace and love, but that we must stand for ye olde paths at all costs! [Insert K.J.V. only bible proof texts here to show how gracious and godly we are. Oh yes, we almost forgot to mention Jesus. We prayed to Him and know that we are doing this because He answered our prayers and showed us that this is what we must do.]

    Ye Olde Path Man,
    Sam Davison, et al

      1. It should have been Comrade Blythe for the exiled compatriot, and the Council of People’s Commissars for the Administration. Comrade Davison is the General Secretary.

        The parallel is uncanny.

        B.R.1

  12. Dear Sam Davison:

    Perhaps you could explain precisely how said statements conflict with FoH’s position. I say that because italicized text is a readability issue. Unless FoH wishes to say otherwise — which is false — brother Mike’s statements don’t conflict with the truth of the matter.

    In either way, you stand in violation of the ninth commandment. My question is this:

    Does that matter at FoH?

    Christian Socialist

    1. Nah, it’s just evidence of using 19 year old home-school graduate “secretarial ministries” students to write important church business letters because the MOG is borderline illiterate.

    2. Could be just something the author did, could be elevating the KJV to the level of a person -generally speaking person initials have the period after each letter outside of monogrammed goods, thing intitials don’t.

  13. I’ve met and heard Sam Davison numerous times. He is the worst of the fundy “Angry Birds.” He doesn’t seem to like anyone. He always looks mad. Strange guy…

    1. Some people have defended Sam Davison on her before so I have kept my opinions to myself, but I agree that he is a typical angry MOG. His wife’s name is Sandra, and when I hear her name, I always think “Look at me, I’m Sandra D.” So there’s that.

  14. I wonder if this had something to do with calling the KJV inspired vs. saying the original languages(or perhaps the original manuscripts) are inspired, but not a translations. Maybe this guy said the latter while denying the former. Back when Jack Schaap was still on his throne in Hammond he made some similar comments about the KJV not being inspired. People who had been mostly silent (or indirectly mentioning him) on all the other weird stuff he had been saying all of a sudden decided to chime in. It was a mess The Sword of the Lord got involved, Church Bus News got involved, even Russell Anderson(the Anderson half of Hyles Anderson) got involved. Some of this is probably in the archives of SFL. I’m guessing something similar happened at Heartland. this man must have made some type of statement that in some way denied the KJV as a translation the status of being inspired or at least made people think that he did( which is all it really takes).

    1. phil: I think you’ve nailed it. I remember when Schaap came out with the inspired only applies to the original manuscripts, so the KJV, while a faithful translation, is not inspired.

      I remember all of the messages from the anti-Schaap crowd making fun of his position, and roaring back in their ignorance that the KJV certainly “preserved the inspiration” (whatever that means).

    1. I’m no Bible scholar, but I think the italicized words were added by the translators of the King James Version.

      Not that the King James Version is a translation. Amen? It was written by God himself. In ink. My God don’t need no white-out.

      1. The Geneva Bible and Bishop’s Bible translators began the use of italicized words to show the reader they had been added by the translators for clarification. by the time of the 1611 translation team, the use had become customary. Many words and phrases do not translate directly from one language to another, so extra words may be necessary to keep the meaning. The King James translators also made many margin notes of words they thought might have an alternate translation that was as justified as the one they used in the text. Sometime in the mid 1800s publishers began to routinely omit the margin notes, although they kept the italicized words.

        For a more detailed explanation, I recommend From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man, especially the chapter titled “The Changing King James Version”.

        1. It should also be noted that in more than a few places, the italicized words in the KJV do in fact alter the sense of the passage in a way that is decidedly NOT reflective of the original manuscripts. I used to have some examples of this on hand, but not any more.

      2. http://brandplucked.webs.com/italicswhy.htm

        This site gives a fairly reasonable argument for the use of italics in several different Bible translations. Short explanation: not all words are present in all languages. For example, when I translate question from Spanish to English, I always need to insert a “do/does” because those words are implied in the Spanish verb.
        “Hablas español?”—-Do you speak Spanish?

        However, different translators, especially when it comes to KJV Scripture, would definitely have opinions as to which words to “add.”

      3. Any way the Peebs know that John Nelson Darby translated The Word of God correctly, and often incoherently. He mostly didn’t bother with those italicized words and just assumed the reader was indoctrinated, I mean intelligent, enough to understand what God was saying.
        If you start saying the italics are not inspired, you might end up suggesting the page numbers are random and unimportant.

    2. Every language has words that are sort of implied in certain grammatical structures, like how “Run!” is really “[You (singular)] run!” or “[You (plural)] run!” in English. And also structures that don’t translate well into other languages – either there’s no comparative form (Greek middle voice to Latin is passable, to English is practically hopeless).

      So what the KJV translators did is note the words they had to add into the English version to deal with all that and some unclear pronoun-antecedent issues and other things in italics so that everyone would know that yes, those words weren’t strictly speaking in the original text but were required to make the translation workable.

      KJV-inspired view is that these words are just as inspired as the rest of the text. The other view is that these are handy notations from the translators that something might arguably be a little off there since it was a grammatical kludge and not a strict one-to-one translation.

      And there are places where ‘this subject was implied in the original verb thanks to conjugation, but we need the actual subject in the sentence in English’ situations and the like make that difference amazingly important in figuring out who the verse was actually talking about, because those italics are where they picked between two or more possible meanings of the original language text.

      Treat the italics as different, and the KJV ceases to be inspired because those decisions are as valid as original intent of the original text IF AND ONLY IF those translation choices were equally inspired.

  15. Professor Blythe has not been “freer” than he is at this very moment. No longer encumbered by the gestapo-like tactics of his employer and the every-present danger of having some student report some utterance of academic uncertainty or question to his pastor who will then bring the wrath of the association down on him through the college administration, he may now actually teach what he probably already believes in his heart, is free to explore the world outside of the Fundy-Dome, can actually read “unapproved” scholars for further enlightenment and perhaps make some good friends with those considered infidels by the likes of HBC.

    He will go through a period of guilt, fear, depression, anxiety like many of us who have escaped the cult have, but as he now receives the full brunt of fundy shunning which shall now commence (contrary to what might have been implied by the “gracious” forced resignation terms), he will make friends with people who think for themselves and still love Jesus. Hard to believe…but they are out there.

    Congratulations to him…this is the first step in his metamorphoses. In the words of the late Martin Luther King, Jr., “Free at last, free at last! Thank God almighty, I am free at last!”

  16. I actually know Mike Blythe and his family, although I haven’t seen or spoken to him in quite a few years. He used to be the youth pastor at a fundy-light baptist church in Indianapolis that my wife and I attended years ago. He and his wife were the nicest and most down to earth people you could ever meet. Although he was a very conservative person back at that time, he was not a know-it-all, pretentitious, fundy elitest at all.

    Wow – I feel really bad for him and his family. They are good people!!

    1. I’m so glad someone who knew the guy has chimed in. But here’s my question – setting aside the draconian way in which he was terminated, did this gentleman in fact have ANY qualifications to be teaching Biblical languages classes at the college level?

      1. That I don’t really know. Like I said, he was a youth pastor/assistant pastor at the time I knew him. He resigned his position sometime before we left the church to seek a new opportunity/position. I was not aware of any scandals at the time in regards to him moving on. I know he had an interest in teaching, but I really don’t know the level of his training to prepare him for taking a professor position for teaching Biblical languages.

        1. The typical FU does not look well upon people who are actually educated, so it would be atypical to hire someone with actual expertise and education in an area. Of course, every once in a while a person of such caliber is offered a job and actually takes it, but it is not a thing in Fundystan.

          It is with a bit of irony that I note the fundy disdain for education and learning but the propensity for awarding “doctorates” to each other for no reason at all.

        2. The typical FU does not look well upon people who are actually educated…

          “He has NO book-larnin’, and HE IS LOUD!”
          — according to a long-ago Internet Monk thread, the highest complement you can say about a preacher-man in the mountain culture of Kentucky

        3. It is with a bit of irony that I note the fundy disdain for education and learning but the propensity for awarding “doctorates” to each other for no reason at all.

          Reverend Larry awards Reverend Moe an Honorary Doctorate.
          Reverend Moe awards Reverend Curly an Honorary Doctorate.
          Reverend Curly awards Reverend Larry an Honorary Doctorate.
          NYUK! NYUK! NYUK!

  17. So this gentleman must now find another job somewhere to feed himself and his family and to put a roof over their heads. Probably not a huge demand for fundy teachers marked with the shame of heresy. Perhaps he could get a job at Wamart, but the probably sell other Bible translations other than KJV.

    1. If he has the typical fundy education, working low end retail/food service is about the only opportunity he has.

      He might even have to go on food stamps, since xian charity is nowhere to be found.

  18. Interestingly, their Wikipedia article under the heading “Beliefs” lists only the following: “HBBC believes that the King James Version of the Bible is God’s preserved Word for English-speaking people.”

    That’s it. Guess that covers everything…

  19. I’ve got these folks on my R.A.D.A.R. As a Former I.F.B., I find it puzzling that they can’t L.A.S.E.R. in on a less confusing form of writing. Talk about indirect beating around the bush.

  20. I guess they aren’t really growing in charity like their label says. I think it’s funny how they say he reacted in a “godly” manner. Basically – we’re kicking your ass out, but we’ll give you the dignity of resigning first if you want. You’re godly if you do what we say.

    1. I noticed that too: their applauding him for responding in a “godly” way. I thought that they meant he just went quietly instead of creating a big stink.

      I also wondered if they ever evaluate their own behavior to see if it is truly godly.

      1. The thought-criminal MUST be broken to the System before being Liquidated. Only when the knee is bent and the tongue confesses “Comrade Stalin is LORD” will the Tokarev bullet enter the back of the neck.

        “It is not enough for you to obey Big Brother, 6079 Smith W. You Must LOVE Big Brother.”

  21. We are grieved and determined to show the grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ, who not only LIVES, He lives in us! In case you’re wondering, we the leadership get to determine what the grace and love of Christ actually is, keeping in mind what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is! If it appears that we did not extend Christ’s love and grace toward Mr. Blythe, then you are clearly being deceived by the Enemy. Thank you.

      1. Much grace and love to you Mr. Blythe as you find a community of people who will allow you to clarify or apologize or ask questions about any matter of faith without fear.

  22. This is Communistic Christianity. When did Christianity become Militant? How many of you believe all of that ‘weeks and weeks of prayer…’ BS? They knew what they were going to do immediately.

        1. do y’all think that most of a fundy’s problem is fear? Their world is built on absolutes, most of which are opinions carried down from generation to generation of people with sticks up their butts.

          If those ‘ absolutes ‘ get challenged, they don’t know what to do. So they fall back on “well, they are absolutes” so they must be right. And “how dare you make me think on my own”.
          I know a fundy preacher who laughs at the notion that newer translations of the Bible are closer in meaning to the original text than the kjv because they are based on older manuscripts than the Kjv was, even tho it is a well accepted theory. if you want to say that you like the Kjv because it works for you, then fine. but don’t give me a hell about it.

    1. It looks like one of the “essential” doctrines at Heartland is that a trio has five people in it.

      “… the Assurance Trio from Heartland Baptist Bible College! This year’s group consisted of Lena Schillings, Caitlyn Brown, Bethany McCoin, Callie Copeland, and Jed Brown. They were sponsored by Brother Mike Blythe and his wife Barbra.”

      ?

        1. Maybe not!!!!!!!!!
          Exclamation! points! must be cheaper than periods where they live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Oh, WCBC has had their own oddly worded paper trail detailing (well, more like obscuring IMHO) the circumstances involving suddenly missing college staff (ex: Michael Zachary).

  23. My sister was “asked to leave” the school she was teaching at in Hawaii because of some picture on her computer of her with her ex-boyfriend. Her roommate literally tattled on her. She sneaked onto my sisters computer when my sister was not home and then proceeded to go and tell the school administration about my sister’s evilness that was probably corrupting the studets as she tought them chemistry. The whole entire thing was such a joke. I’m famliar with these kinds of schools but I just couldn’t believe that a supposed “adult” would be so petty. Grow up and mind your own f-ing business.

    1. “The more adjectives about Democracy there are in a country’s official name, the nastier a dictatorship it is.”
      — “People’s Republic of Tyranny” over at TV Tropes

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