Phil Kidd (‘Nuff Said)

Yeah, Phil Kidd is still behaving badly. That’s not exactly news so why do I bother even bringing him up?

Well, because there are still all these churches and meetings that are continuing to have this man in to preach even after he repeatedly pulls stunts like this.

It’s fascinating to me that in fundamentalism that there is only one way to dress, only one type of music to sing, only one Bible to read from — but pure racism or religion-based hatred is apparently considered a gray area where people need to give each other space for soul liberty.

195 thoughts on “Phil Kidd (‘Nuff Said)”

    1. And from right reverend’s welcome page:

      “Dr. Kidd is well known for his uncompromising stand against sin as well as his great love to reach the lost world with The Gospel. Buildings everywhere overflow with crowds that drive long distances to hear this man of God thunder God’s Word. His labor has not been without persecution and misunderstandings.”

      How about sinning with our tongues and written words?

      1. Because insulting someone (who doesn’t get a choice, by the way) will definitely “reach the lost world with The Gospel.”
        Or are we only to reach the lost world we agree with?

  1. I guess humility and kindness are no longer on the virtue list. Our pastor used to sing the “Oh Lord it’s hard to be humble” song from the pulpit when he preached about humility – Every time. Sigh.

  2. “Well, because there are still all these churches and meetings that are continuing to have this mani in to preach even after he repeatedly pulls stunts like this.”

    George misspelled “maniac.”

      1. It also shows that the “joke” isn’t even original to “Dr.” Phil Kidd. Kidd is just swiping another “comic’s” joke without attribution– something that standup comedians (which Kidd professes himself to be) consider about as bad as murder.

      1. YES!!!

        I have a strong visceral reaction when I see women dressed like this (much less tiny little girls). I know some say they are freely choosing this clothing style, but then some of us thought we were freely choosing to dress in culottes too — we knew nothing different and everyone we knew, family and friends, would reject us if we DIDN’T — that’s NOT free choice.

        1. Agreed. Freedom of choice requires actual choices. Fundamentalism presents you with an all-or-nothing dilemma. You are not allowed different options.

          Freedom of religion requires knowledge outside of the faith you are in. If you are told continually that exploration outside will result in eternal torture, you will hesitate — unless, of course, staying inside is also eternal torture!

        2. Excellent point. Child abuse is child abuse. IDK how it can be legally defined as child abuse though, cause a lot of Fundies would (as you kind of imply) also (& rightly) be implicated in the child abuse laws.

      2. They are not dressed like trash bags because they are women, they are dressed extremely modestly because they are muslim. Do you not think there are muslim women who believe the faith and dress accordingly? I had come to expect better from you pastor’s wife. That person in the unusual-for-our-culture clothing may be the best mother and nicest person you know. Let us not judge by the outward appearance. It’s a works religion. This is known. That makes it the same as every other false religion man has even invented. Muslims are lost because they are muslim. They are not criminal or dangerous or second class in any way because they are Muslim.

        1. 1) Reading comprehension fail regarding pastor’s wife’s comments there Joshua. But then you were never forced to wear coulettes or have the hemline of your dress measured

          2) Remember that all branches of Christianity were also formed by man so I wouldn’t be so quick to throw out the “false religion” charge so haphazardly. Certain Muslims would say the exact same thing about Christianity, that it is a false religion. And don’t waste my time or yours with “but I have the truth”. No you don’t. No one does.

  3. “It’s fascinating to me that in fundamentalism that there is only one way to dress, only one type of music to sing, only one Bible to read from — but pure racism or religion-based hatred is apparently considered a gray area where people need to give each other space for soul liberty. ”

    The same can be said for their tolerance for pervy pastors. There are churches that enable disqualified pastors to remain in their pulpits and to continue hurting people. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, but instead they will make sure all their wimmenfolk are wearing skirts and call it even.

  4. At first, I didn’t understand this at all. I was wondering where the other two kids were.
    Now that I get it . . . My life is somewhat worse than it was before. I would prefer not getting it.

    1. It took me a minute, too. The OP (not Phil Kidd) ought to be ashamed of comparing people (children, no less!) to garbage. And PASTOR Kidd ought to know better than to post such racist, Islamophobic things. But he’s proven time & again that he has no discernment, so I shouldn’t be surprised. 🙁

  5. Hmmm. So I control-click on the picture above, and it takes me to http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2012/06/08/cindy-pugh-candidate-for-state-rep-compares-muslim-women-to-garbage-bags/.

    In other words, Phil Kidd did not take this picture.

    Okay, I just saw the text Darrell attached!

    But since Kidd did not take the picture, I have to assume that Kidd’s story is bogus as well. It would not surprise me that he borrows a photo to tell a made-up story.

    Islam has its problems. It has its cultural elements its adherents mistake for faith. It is in those ways just like Christianity. We have our problems. We have cultural elements we mistake for faith.

    Certainly Islam as a whole treats women shamefully – rather like fundamentalist Christianity *wants* to treat women, but can’t because there are all these dratted secular laws that keep them from it.

    A good look at fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Judaism reveals surprisingly identical attitudes and even cultural positions for two peoples that hate each other. Fundamentalist Christianity differs from them only that it has been Americanized and moderated against its will.

    1. Well said, rtgmath. I look at the size of that little girl, and I know that age is so hard. Peers are bullying. Imagine being a young Muslim child, clad in a burkha, and living in America? Imagine the bullying she goes through on a normal day. And here is a supposed Christian preacher, bullying her on the Internet. Comparing her to a bag of garbage.

      God bless & protect this child from Satan-wannabees such as Phil Kidd. And from all those dupes and sycophants who attend his hate-filled meetings.

      Does anyone wonder why I am so hesitant to self-identify a s a Christian?

      1. Or you could imagine being a young Muslim girl of 9 or 10 being married to the prophet Muhammad when he was 50 years old. Probably why so many are hesitant to self identify as Muslims.

        1. True statement. And it illustrates the fact that many radical Christians and radical Muslims have striking similarities. It’s just a matter of degree of crazy.

        2. I don’t know of many Muslims who are hesitant to self-identify. And the ones I know would tell you that you are confusing cultural matters with faith.

          In point of fact, here in the US it was legal for a grown man to marry a girl of 12 years age in much of the country. Even in Christian parts of the ancient world, marriage between grown men and young girls have occurred. Mary herself may have been a young as 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. It wasn’t uncommon. Age 13 was when boys officially became “men.”

          Marriage at younger ages occurred when families made marriage promises, contracts the future husband and wife were obligated to fulfill.

          You cannot judge the present day religion by the past — unless you want your faith to be judged by the horrendous things done in the name of Christ in years gone by.

        3. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen–
          girls still marry very young there. In predominantly Christian nations or in more secular countries, not so much.

        4. There are lots of other Islamic nations where girls do not marry young. The difficulty is not in the religion itself, but in the tribal cultures.

        5. I usually disagree with everything you say rtgmath, but this time I cannot agree more. Culture and religion are hard to differentiate but most don’t even try.

        6. Thank you for your kind words. In any case, it is fine by me that you disagree with almost all I say. You are entitled to your perspective.

          At one time I would have disagreed with all I am saying now. There has been a change, gradual but persistent over time. Perhaps in time you will find your perspective shifting!

        7. I live in a tribal culture in which Christian girls are regularly married at barely 13 and normally pregnant very soon after. It’s expected and considered normal. No hint of feeling oppressed or forced to marry.

          The marriage is arranged when the couple is very young, and then once the girl has completed puberty rites the couple themselves choose when they are ready to consummate the marriage which seals the deal and implies new community recognized responsibilities for both.

          My opinion is that the preference for marriage to occur from age 18 up has much more to do with evolved Western educational expectations than anything explicit you could point to in Scripture.

        8. “I live in a tribal culture in which Christian girls are regularly married at barely 13 and normally pregnant very soon after.”

          Ah, yes, Kentucky. …

        9. BG, hmm Kentucky and many other trailer parks.

          Superficial similarities, yes, but the pregnant 13 yr olds where we live have been painstakingly prepared to fulfill their demanding role in society and are considered responsible adults–not untaught slackers who force family and community to bear the burden of their unpremeditated consequences.

    2. As a Brit (or Goddam Limey, if you prefer), the picture looks to me as if it has been taken on a street somewhere in Britain. The types of car, the yellow lines on the road, the back end of what is probably a fire engine, the white background to the front number plates, the yellow background to the rear, the sign probably carrying parking restrictions, all fit a British scene. Does Dr Kidd have copyright permission to use the photo?

    3. Here we go again. I have a hard time believing even you believe that rtgmath. That Christian fundamentalists given the exact same circumstances and the exact same opportunity would be as extreme as Islamic fundamentalists? Hyperbole, maybe?

      1. Mark – You must not know many fundamentalists. The fundies I know think any skin shown by women is a potential stumbling block for men. In what other bizarro-world are toes considered seductive? Elbows anyone? What other group of people measure by fingers how deep the neckline of a dress plunges?
        The obsession over the female form by fundamentalists is insane! Ask any woman who ever had to wear coulettes.

        1. Scorpio, I do know Christian fundamentalists and I know about them. Nothing you just said would convince anyone that Christians would take their legalism and abuse of women to the depraved lows of extreme Islam.
          No doubt I am inviting a lecture from rtgmath, but just compare Jesus and Muhammad for example. Jesus was a man of peace who lived a celibate life. Muhammad was a warrior who had many wives (at least one of whom was probably 9 or 10 years old when he was 50.
          While Kidd’s joke is obviously offensive, regardless of what website it’s on or who perpetrates it, comparing Christian fundamentalists to Islamic fundamentalists is also offensive.
          Christian fundamentalists have Jack Schaap polishing the shaft (and then actually committing a felony and going to prison)—Islamic fundamentalists have ISIS.
          Not even close.

        2. History, sir. You need to read history. Lots of it. The more you read from unbiased perspectives, the more you will understand what I have said.

          Remove the veneer of our modernized infrastructure, the world consciousness we have developed, the laws that keep us in check, and I think you would be shocked at what “Christians” would do. History teaches us what Christians have done, and so much of it is not pretty at all.

        3. Mark – I don’t think rtgmath, or myself, insinuated that Christian fundamentalism would go to the extremes of the ISIS group. What we are stating as fact, is that based on the fundy circles we have been exposed to, those Chrisitans would definitely love to have laws passed that would dictate women’s clothing be as modest as possible. If you have not been exposed to fundamentalists like that, then consider yourself lucky.

        4. Yes, Scorpio, I have known–and still know—some fundies who might like to pass such laws. I agree that some Christian fundamentalists have too much concern about controlling how other people choose to live their lives. No doubt, many people from all walks of life like to stick their Pinocchio length lying noses where they don’t belong.

        5. Dr Bob jr prayed openly in a chapel service for a top government official he was mad at to be killed. I was there.

          I think if someone had assassinated that official that Bob Jr. would have praised the Lord and claimed it as God’s will.

        6. Mark, why couldn’t a fundy sink to such lows? There are plenty of fundy husbands who invoke such draconian laws on their families. Just because we don’t have a country full of such crazies doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

          Anyone under the right circumstances could do the most heinous things. It matters not what religious beliefs are held or not held. We can all be monsters. Fundies are no exception.

        7. Lady Semp:
          I was just listening to a BBC story on NPR about the many hundreds of Muslim women in Pakistan brutalized over the past decade by their own families with acid attacks. One woman told of how her husband, his brother and her mother-in-law tied her and held her down while the father-in-law poured acid on her face. When asked how the authorities respond to these reports, the answer is that usually they want to know, “we’ll what did you do to deserve it?”
          So, no, I’m not just going to glibly say “well any of us could do that.” I can’t fathom how or why any culture or religion could be so incredibly evil as to accept or propogate this sickening behavior.
          So we can sit around making fun of the outlandish, foolish, backwards, disrespectful, offensive, and sometimes criminal behavior of Christian fundies—but I don’t think anyone is going to start a blog anytime soon called stuffmuslimfundieslike. Cause that wouldn’t be funny. It wouldn’t be entertaining. It would be depressing. And it might get you killed. Remember Rushdie?

        8. Dear Mark,
          Not to put too fine a point on it, but Salmon Rushdie is still alive.
          Regards,
          BJg

        9. And Mark, the difference between Muslim and IFB radicals re: Women is just a matter of degrees.
          Blessings! BJg

        10. Mark just doesn’t understand what we are trying to say. He soooooo wants to believe that his religion, and therefore worldview, is the bestest in the whole wide world and that God loves him the most.
          Mark – It has been a while but remember the abortion clinic bombings? The outright assassinations of doctors who performed abortions? All done by American Christians. In the name of your Lord and Savior.
          Evil has been perpetrated by men in God’s name for thousands of years. A lot of it was even documented in the Bible.
          The fact that you would suggest a website called stuffmuslimfundieslike tells me that you really really don’t understand SFL.

        11. Mark, I shall labor under the assumption that you believe the Bible.

          If that is the case, I offer you this: “The heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: Who can know it?” -Jeremiah 17:9 That pretty much covers your statement “I can’t fathom how or why any culture or religion could be so incredibly evil as to accept or propogate this sickening behavior.” It is first within every human’s heart, and when it is codified and part of the social milieu, it is hard to break out of and think any differently of the behavior. Accuse me of prooftexting if you like, but experience has shown me that you never have to teach a person to be selfish, to lie, etc. It is within us, no matter how many laws are set up to deal with it.

          You have no idea of the depths of depravity you will go to if the situation is right. Do not say it can’t happen to you. Lots of Germans probably said the same thing several decades ago.

        12. Case in point: Joe Coombs and his wife did as much evil as any extreme Islam example. The problem is that Joe Coombs’ brand of “fundamentalism” is NOT Biblical Christianity.

          One of the glaring faults of IFB group is the unwillingness to publicly repudiate sins / errors of others that call themselves IFB. Examples are legion.

        13. Unfortunately, violence against women’s clinics and health-care workers by anti-abortion activists is not a thing of the past. Since 2010, there have been at least two bombings, several arson attempts, and countless cases of vandalism, threats, and attempts at intimidation at clinics.

          Examples:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
          http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/anti-abortion-violence-americas-forgotten-terrorism-1.html#.VFEEMDTF98E

        14. Not to mention the attempted bombing of a Martin Luther King Jr. day parade in Spokane, WA, an actual bombing in Atlanta in 1996. Then there were calls by pastors to built concentration camps for LGBT people. There have been calls to kill certain politicians, especially our President.

        15. BJg:
          Whether or not Rushdie was actually killed wasn’t my point. My point was that his life was very publicly threatened and the world generally considered it a serious threat.
          My larger point being that its like we’re comparing wormy apples with hand grenades.

        16. Scorpio:
          Do you really think you need to mock me? You need to say “soooooo, bestest”? God loves me more than anyone else? Seriously? So I hold a minority view among the commenters on this post. I get that. There are lots of people who agree with me. Most of them will never comment here. Cause they don’t want to be bullied by you. But they do read SFL–some of them do . Many people are entertained by the wacky antics of the IFB. Often there is good discussion here. But when you look around and see all your friends, and then you see me with my dissenting unpopular view and then you just mock me like that? I don’t get it. I suggested another blog not because I don’t understand SFL, but because I do. Like most of you all on here, I consider Darrell a hero for what he has done here. I’d like to meet him someday. I’ve been decrying fundies since long before there was this blog devoted to it. My dad had a job interview with Jack Hyles 40 years ago and thank God my parents saw him for the arrogant dick he was and chose not to take the job. So, I’ve been around fundamentalism. I know I’ve been spared the worst of it. But I’ve heard the stories. I’ve read the books. I don’t choose to change my position on this subject. Thanks to most of you for not ridiculing me for taking the stand I did. Lady Semp, point well taken. I recognize that the Bible teaches that all of us are capable of evil. This would be one of those cases where the Bible says it and I believe it, but I still don’t get it.
          Mark

        17. If fetuses who are aborted are human, then abortion doctors who kill them are murderers. Not under US law, but they are murderers none the less. The vigilante actions cited by Big Gary are definitely illegal, but some would argue that in some cases they were morally justifiable–as they were being done in defense of or as retribution for the killing of defenseless babies. I think this is a terrible example of comparison between “our” extremism and “theirs.” I know that I am once again practically begging for ridicule for revealing my naivety regarding the abortion debate in the US. Yes, I know it is no longer respectable or cool to be “pro-life.” Or should I say “anti-choice”?

        18. Mark, it is an excellent example between our extremism and “their” extremism.

          Some – in fact several – Christians believe it is okay to murder doctors who perform abortions at any time for any reason. The writers on the networks call for the murder of these people, and someone rallies to the cause and does it. Then simultaneously there is rejoicing in-network and a public face of denial to having anything to do with the crime.

          Is murder ever morally justifiable? Do you really think so? If you can somehow come up with a justification for why it should happen, you could take it on yourself to execute Judgment as if you were above the Law on a Mission from Almighty God?

          THAT, my friend, is the exact same extremism of mind that flies planes into buildings or wears C4 vests to blow up women and children. They say they are defending the defenseless babies, too.

          I am not ridiculing you. My wife has never had an abortion. We never, ever considered one. But we know people who have needed those services. And through much study, I found out that the Scripture is NOT clear on when life “begins,” when it is a human being with a “right to life,” when the body gets a soul, and a host of other things.

          We pick and choose our position based on a small subset of Scripture and a small subset of fact. We don’t admit that there is more that deserves to be considered or that others could legitimately disagree with us or be right with God doing so. That, too, is fundamentalism. It grips the heart. You believe what you do with absolute certainty, so much so that going beyond makes a person worthy of death — by anyone who has a will to do it!

          And I know, simply by pointing this out that I could bring down wrath from you and from a lot of others here at SFL. But I sincerely hope not.

          Think. What and if someone looked at you, and were convinced that you had violated some moral boundary so gross in their estimation that you were worthy of death. Would you want them to have the power or the right to carry out that sentence? If we do to others the same as we want to be done to us, what does that have to say about mercy and judgement? We have laws to prevent people from taking up such matters into their own hands. And you know that some would, if there were no fear of retribution.

          So yes, Mark. From our own hearts we know it to be true. “Their” extremism may be different from “our” extremism, but we as humans are cut from the same cloth and we would do the same things under the “right” situation, and we would feel justified doing so.

        19. Mark – Your dad interviewing with Hyles gives you major fundy cred. 🙂 Your points are well taken regarding SFL and your experiences. I may have come across harsh on you. I guess I am just getting grumpy in my old age.

          But your comments on the abortion killings……we are not talking about pro-life here. We are talking about people killing other people. There is no justification for that, regardless of your views on abortion, unless it is a government sanctioned event (i.e. war, criminal conviction etc.). Someone taking the law into their own hands and dishing out moral retribution is illegal and is itself immoral.

        20. rtgmath and Scorpio:
          I agree with both of you regarding retribution. Romans 12 is clear in its instructions to Christians regarding not taking revenge and how to treat “enemies.” Last night when I posted I was speaking with passion from my heart, not from my head. When I was getting off work at midnight last night, my mom called and told me my uncle was dying and suggested I go see him before going home. His house (a single wide in a trailer park) was filled with his kids and some grandkids standing vigil as he took his last breaths. My uncle died sometime between 2 when I left and 6 this morning. So, I was perhaps overly sensitive when I read and responded while sitting in my car on my phone in the driveway this morning.
          I once worked with some Jehovah’s Witnesses who were pacifists. They believed that it was always immoral for a person to kill another person—no exceptions—not for war, self defense, or capital punishment. So, I asked one of my friends–if you came home and found that someone had killed your entire family and was just finishing off the last one when you walked in—if a gun was available, would you kill him in the heat of the moment? He said, probably. I said, would that be justified? He said, God would have to judge me.
          When I was 16 (30 years ago) I briefly considered taking up a career as an abortion doctor sniper. I reasoned that every abortion doctor who dies potentially saves the lives of many unborn babies. To me it seemed like justifiable homicide in defense of human life. Thankfully, I didn’t choose that route. And to anyone reading this, let me be clear; I am opposed to taking the (moral) law into your own hands. You are not Charles Bronson.

        21. Nice response, Mark. Very clear. And I understand where you are coming from.

          I will pray for you and your family as they sort out the feelings and facts of your uncle’s death. Those are difficult things to handle, and with feelings so close to the surface and wounds from loss causing pain, it is to be expected that people put more force in their words than they might otherwise.

          I am pretty much a pacifist myself. I think I could be pushed into murder at the heat of the moment, but I hope I wouldn’t. If I can be the kind of peacemaker Jesus said is blessed, that is what I want.

        22. Thanks for the kind words rtgmath. I anticipate many good conversations with you, Scorpio, BG, Lady, BJg, and the rest of the cast here at SFL.
          On a more personal note, I’ll be praying for you for your employment situation. I’ve had my share of unemployment since the crash of 2008. I feel your pain.
          Mark

        23. My condolences on your loss, Mark.

          It is so easy to get lost in passion, especially online with strangers you’ve never met. As we all sit behind our keyboards we would do well to remember that maybe what we think the other person isn’t what they meant, or perhaps the flavor of what they said was poisoned by some kind of pain that we know nothing about. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve started to type something in response to another and then deleted it all, because I suddenly realized that maybe there was something else behind the words that I wasn’t getting. On the flip side of that, just yesterday I was messaging someone and realized after I sent it that it sounded snotty and I wasn’t even trying to. Fortunately my friend knows my headspace well enough that she didn’t take it the wrong way.

          You’ll find that for the most part we try to temper intensity with kindness.

          I wish you and your family well during this tough time.

      2. Uhhh, no. Unfortunately, given some of the people I know and some of the characters we have in fundamentalism, I could see them doing much the same things for the same reasons, all the while hating Islam and Judaism because of the quarrel over the nature of God.

        Christians killed other Christians in long years gone by over doctrine. Here in the early US, religious persecution was the thing to do. Hang or burn the witches or the heretics.

        Judge Roy Moore of Alabama once implied that the State following “God’s Law” would put homosexuals to death. Lots of fundy preachers have called for that. Fundamentalists have, where they could get away with it, tried to restrict the religious freedoms of other people.

        Fundamentalists, as a national group, polled the most comfortable with using torture as a means of extracting information from enemy combatants. And even in my IFB church, some said they were okay with torture and the Iraq war because they “felt safer.”

        In the news we have had fundamentalist politicians threaten assassination, civil war and chaos with gun violence if they did not get the votes! Some politicians are buying guns, openly telling the people they want to elect them that they are buying the guns to protect themselves from the government. Some “Christian” white extremists have threatened a race war, and militia groups say they are arming themselves for that day. Many pastors are telling their people that religious liberty is only meant for Christians! Rabidity against immigrants is so bad that “Christians” are stopping busses full of children to scream at them. “Christian” publications like WorldNetDaily pump out a continual volley of lies and conspiracy theories.

        How fast could our civilization go from civility to chaos? It is heading there in a hand basket. On mag wheels. With a big engine pushing it. And loudmouths like Kidd egging it on.

        1. While the appeal of torturing “Dr.” Phil Kidd is undeniable, it’s highly unlikely that he knows any information that would be useful to anyone.

        2. “it’s highly unlikely that he knows any information that would be useful to anyone.”
          Big Gary—given his chosen profession, this comment is hilarious. Hats off to you, bro.

        3. to add to what you are saying, how about all these hard-right christians in america supporting legal efforts in places such as uganda and russia to make LGBT people’s very existence illegal? they supported the bill in uganda that would’ve made it punishable by death. and this isn’t even limited to the fundies, you got folks like those at the saddleback church hooting it along, too.

          so, yeah, maybe some of you won’t say it, but given freedom from american jurisprudence, lots of these fundies would merrily act just like ISIS has. I refuse to pretend otherwise after having spent time around fundies who’ve “re-assured” me that I don’t have to be put to death if I cease to be a sinner in this regard as they hand me pamphlets about ex-gay garbage. my life wouldn’t be worth a dime in any fundy theocracy of any people of the book/abrahamic faith.

        1. Nearly all fundies I have known are enthusiastic about the military, support wars and the use of the force of arms to enforce US will on the world.

          Because, you know, as Jesus said, “Bomb your enemies. Kill those that curse you. Kill those that happen to get in the way. So shall you be known as the Children of your Heavenly Father. Even he sends bombs on the just and the unjust. If you don’t steal their resources or control their government, and actually work to improve their lives, what reward do you have? Only weaker countries do that!” Matthew 5:44-46.

  6. A racist, sexist ignoramus in fundyland? No way! What a coward. Not that he wouldn’t make a similar disgusting comment had those two been wearing ‘normal clothes’, but isn’t it easier to insult someone when you can’t see their face…

    1. He is actually revealing how alike his thinking and religion are to the racist, sexist, ignoramuses who promote the type of islamic caliphate that would put women under these types of bondage.

      Hey, they are more modest than most American women Kidd encounters. And for the same twisted evil reasons that he would enforce his own draconian dress code upon fundy women.

      I actually wish more people would understand that the burkha is not a symbol that should be viewed in a positive multicultural light, it is a blatant assault on personal liberty, civil rights, and protection for minority populations. The answer is not to degrade or attack the women who are victimized by this sub-culture, but the evil promoters of it, both men and women who advocate for such a world.

      Including people like Phil Kidd who argue for much the same things, just dressed up in a different cultural tradition.

      1. Point well taken, from you and Lady Semp. Had his joke been aimed at the Islamic dress code, without degrading a woman and little girl, this would not be offensive. But I have no doubt that his ‘punchline’ betrays his view of Muslim people being less than human.

  7. From the comments on his FB post:

    “This man is my Pastor and I love him and his family for those who wish to stand in judgement of him STOP and remember that you are talking about Gods man and he is a wonderful man of God who led me to Christ 2 yrs ago now he is my pastor and friend Bro Kidd U pray for all these people who take simple common things and use hate towards u for lightning the mood I believe that everyone that can hear the word of God or know of Gods love and can b saved but when we as Americans allow the people of these terrorist countries come here it only ends up in disaster and deaths Remember 9/11???? Seriously??? Send then all back to their country and let’s get the country that God built for us to enjoy I pray for you people that God will forgive u of your hatred against the man of God!!!!!! Just sayin!!!!”

    In other words: THIS IS JUST A JOKE FROM MY MOG HE ISN’T RACIST AND LOVES EVERYONE AND NOW I’LL GO ON A RACIST RANT!

    http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/02/Facepalm-Animated-GIF.gif

    1. Yep … it’s kind of hard to defend someone against charges of racism in the midst of a racist and xenophobic paranoid episode– especially when your spelling ability fits so well into the stereotype of an ignorant Yahoo.

      1. I find it oddly compelling that the staunchest defenders of fundamentalism are often the most obviously uneducated, while at the same time being the most certain of their knowledge of [[everything]].

        And when confronted with it, they smugly point out that the wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of men!

        That does leave them open to a rebuttal. The wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of men, but they don’t have the wisdom of God! God would at least get the facts right!

        1. “And when confronted with it, they smugly point out that the wisdom of God is greater than the wisdom of men!”

          In fundyland that is called checkmate.

  8. Oh Phil Kidd a.k.a. The Howard Stern of fundamentalism.

    You can’t take anything he says seriously since he’s close friends with Jim Vineyard.

    Phil Kidd needs his own Showtime comedy special than Larry Brown and Tony Hutson could follow suit.

  9. Googling images for ‘burka bin bags’ shows that the photo was in use for exactly the same joke by a Conservative (=right-wing) councillor from Enfield, NE London – in February 2013. Another link shows a similar comment on the photo from 2012 blogged on the Telegraph website (right-wing, if old fashioned newspaper).

  10. This one zoomed straight over my head (at first). I thought that the other two children were out of sight and took a long time to realize the point of Phil Kidd’s entry was a joke attempt.

    While Phil Kidd is doubtless a racist, I don’t see how this attempt at humor makes him racist.

    1. Just the fact that he was saying your kids are bags of trash. Yeah, nothing racist (or prejudiced) (or xenophobic) (or insulting) about that.

      Whether it is technically “racism” or not, in America we tend to associate burqas and Islam with the Arab peoples. If it isn’t racism, it is certainly akin to it.

      And if you think that not being technically racist makes it better, then put up a picture of your family and invite people to make disparaging remarks about them. Maybe even compare them to bags of trash.

      I don’t mean to sound as cranky about this as I actually am. But Phil Kidd is a menace to the gospel. Even his picture, with his dukes up, so contradicts the actions and attitude of the Lord Jesus as to make the faith of Christ repugnant to those who see him representing it.

      1. I’m not trying to stand up for Phil Kidd; I’m just stating that the joke may well be insulting, but I don’t see that it fits “racist” or “bigoted” tags… (see post below).

        1. Oh, it fits the bigoted tag. If you don’t see it now, then you will later, I have no doubt. All it requires it that something of the same genre hit *you* in the gut, and then you will know.

          As for racist, it is that, too. Race is a fairly loose term. If you are anti-hispanic, you are racist. If you are anti-black, you are racist. Since this particular form of Islam is pretty much restricted to the Arabs, the “joke” takes on an anti-Arab POV. The illiterate who spoke up to defend the Kidd-er made known his (or her) anti-other, anti-immigrant viewpoints, AKA, racism.

          Even if you wish to nitpick the exact definition, it comes from the same heart attitude. A difference without a difference is no different.

        2. Just to repeat: please don’t think I’m defending Phil Kidd – I find his brand of humor appalling and in very bad taste (and I don’t just mean the one above; he was on another SFL posting talking about children, and that was terrible).

          The “joke” (such as it as) is specifically targeting Islam aka Muslim aka Moslem, NOT a race. It is not therefore racist.

          I leave the door open on “bigoted” because that is defined as “completely intolerant toward different religion, creed, or opinion” (from dictionary.com).

          I get from this post that he likes to make fun of Muslim dress codes (or try to, anyway)… not sure how far someone has to go to be “completely intolerant”

          A while back, a poster on SFL posted that IFB pastors demand that the women in their congregation wear skirts and dresses for “ease of access”. Such a statement is just as nasty and a slur on decent pastors as this statement made by Phil Kidd.

    2. Oh, Guilt Ridden, can you *really* not see what’s racist or bigoted about saying that the children of Muslims are indistinguishable from bags of garbage?

      I’ve read enough of your posts to know you are a good person at heart, but, geez, you need to, well, “emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds.”

      1. I don’t see what is inherently racist or bigoted in the joke. It’s in bad taste, yes, and possibly insulting, but “racist”?

        But I don’t think we should use words indiscriminately. Racist would be a statement about a race, which this statement doesn’t fall into. One can’t be racist about a religion such as Moslem; one could be racist about the Arab race. A bigot is someone intolerant of other beliefs; I suppose it depends upon one’s definition of “intolerant” – at one level, Christianity could be considered intolerant, since Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life – no man cometh unto the Father but by me.”

        So, the “joke” such as it is, may be in very bad taste, but I cannot see that the labels “racist” or “bigoted” apply to this statement.

        1. Um, the muslim *faith* does not demand BURKAs. You may wear a hijab or a niquab. Look it up. When you study the issue more, you will find out that most women who opt for burkas come from a very specific region and very specific race. Hint: it rhymes with Audi and it’s not Germany!

        2. Also Afghanistan and the northern parts of Pakistan. But those are true burqas, not the hijab pictured above. And I’m not sure that the women “opt” to follow strict purda; it’s much more likely that their owners – I mean, husbands – make the choice for them.

        3. Guilt Ridden wrote:-
          “So, the “joke” such as it is, may be in very bad taste, but I cannot see that the labels “racist” or “bigoted” apply to this statement”

          I think the correct discriptive term is “Terminally Stupid”

      2. The religion is Islam, the race is Middle Eastern, the ethnicity is Arabic, the gender is female, and Kidd is knowingly offending and insulting all of the above here in a crude and vulgar way.

        1. Not only that, but he’s retailing a joke that (as others have demonstrated in these comments) has already become a tired Internet meme, even stealing the same damn picture for it, which is a shameful thing for someone who styles himself a comedian to do. That’s right, he thinks he’s professional enough to charge money for his “comedy” DVDs, so he’s professional enough to be judged by the standards used in criticizing professional comedians.

        2. Kudos! Big Gary, you said it better than I ever could have. Thank you.

          I am going to read your comment several times to impress the form of your statement into my mind. Clear, succinct, beautiful, you acknowledged the personhood of the victim while pointing out the depths of Kidd’s depravity.

        3. Big Gary, I’m crying “racist” on you now. Not all followers of Islam are Arabs! I have a good friend here in the part of the world in which I live (not the US) who is Muslim and NOT from the middle east…
          For the record, I hate this joke and all that it represents. Whatever it is or is not, it IS hateful. I wonder if this jackass (not you Gary, the fundy guy) would welcome my friend into his home and be willing to prepare him a meal that wouldn’t offend his religious practices (the way my wife has).

        4. Imprecator, I agree with Big Gary that this image depicts a person from the middle east due to the style of burkhas being worn. I don’t see BG’s comments as being racist in any form. He is just noting the sub-culture of the Islamic world which requires that type of garment. Just IMO.

        5. I never said that all Muslims are Arabs or Middle Easterners (most are not, in fact) or that only Arabs wear burkas.

          I’m just saying that I am reasonably certain that the groups I listed are the ones Phil Kidd wishes to insult. I stand by that list.

          And yes, I am acquainted with a good many Muslims. I’ve been in some of their homes and they’ve been in mine.

        6. While it’s interesting (and great) that you have Muslim friends, my comment was directed at the tweeter not you. I hope (and I thought) I made that clear enough.

        7. American believers in Islam do not usually wear that kind of covering. The picture is not in America anyway. The license plates on the cars give that away.

          No, that kind of garb is not typical among Muslims anywhere but Arab-controlled regions.

        8. Interesting — if that is the way “Allah” wants them to dress, why DON’T American Muslim women dress that way?

        9. Do you think that Islamic doctrine and practice is any more standardized than American Christianity?

          So maybe someone over there says this is what God wants everyone to do — does that mean you do it? American Muslims are more likely to be moderate, not extremist. Oh you still get the occasional one, but extremist Muslims in the US are much rarer than extremist Christians.

    3. I think you’ve fallen for dog whistling at its finest. We had a discussion on that a while back, but it boils down to this: using euphemisms and other avenues of attack to hide your true purpose from outsiders, even though it is plain to your followers. When people like Phil Kidd make fun of urban culture, for instance, you can read “urban” as “black”, but the smokescreen is there for some deniability.

      Here, I have no question that Isam is a stand in for Middle Eastern or Arab in Phil Kidd’s mind. He’s just using the religious bigotry to dog whistle the racism.

  11. Im sorry to be ignorant, but do they really dress up children that young in those things? Don’t they at least wait until puberty?
    Imagine to be so young, when all you want to do is run and play and you are trapped in THAT.

    1. I was at a playground a year or so ago and saw several women dressed like that running and playing on the playground including swinging on the swings. It was rather disconcerting: they looked very spooky honestly with the long black fabric flapping away.

      I could not tell their age. I was assuming young teens (who often act silly and childishly) but they could have been anywhere from 10 on up depending on their height.

      1. I am kind of speechless with them being covered up at such a young age, all because a 10 year old might cause a man to lust. I think it is evil to take away a childhood like that.

    2. A point of interest in today’s world. While Arabic Muslims practice segregating and hiding their women, Ultra-Orthodox (read, “fundy and loonies”) Jewish men segregate themselves away from the women.

      So they won’t sit next to a woman (they would become unclean). Not even on an airplane! They would rather stand in the aisles the whole trip. Of course, in the synagogues the women sit on one side and the men sit on the other.

  12. So ashamed that this guy used to be my “Baptist Pope”. We would drive hundreds of miles just hear him preach. I was friends with a family in NJ that sold everything they had to move to the south bc Kidd told them to. His reason? The churches in the south were more “on fire” and “preached the stuffing out of you”.

    Thank you, Lord, that I got out of that mess almost five years ago.

    1. Sorry you had to endure all that.
      There’s great churches in the north and out west, too.
      I think they just yell louder down south.??…

      People (Fundies) need to realize that God is everywhere and He can work when and where He wants to. It started in Europe before it was in America…

  13. “Proud to Be an Atheist” has this photo posted on his FB page with the title “Why Madam what lovely children you have….”

    Google search the image. It’s making it’s way around. Phil Kidd is lying if he says he saw this woman in real life. What a douche.

    1. He would claim it to be only a joke. He wouldn’t see what isn’t funny about it.

      There are atheist boors out there, too, though most atheists I know are better behaved than that.

      I am not one to defend radical Islam. Neither am I one to defend radical Christianity. It isn’t a matter of preferring one over the other, it is a matter of rejecting both. And we would be well rid of the extremists in all faiths.

      When you are willing to humiliate others, take their rights away because you don’t agree with them, attempt to limit their freedoms and their right to vote, pass laws to promote your version of morality and refuse to cooperate, compromise, or confer with people who do not think as you do on matters of governance, then you are practicing a photo form of totalitarianism. It doesn’t matter what party you are, or what religion you hold to (or not). Extremism is a vice.

  14. Dear ‘I Kidd Thee Not’ Stuff Fundies Like Reader:

    This doesn’t practice kingdom ethics. Since fellowship has been broken over far less consequential matters, I see no reason why congregations which associate with such nonsense ought not to be cited for their ministries of perpetuating unregeneracy in God’s Name.

    Christian Socialist

    1. I agree.

      Essentially, we are doing what the Church in Corinth did. We behave in such a way that people want nothing to do with the Christ we profess.

      The fact is, you cannot separate the message from the messenger. The Ambassador for a country represents that country to where he is. Discourtesy, dishonor, and dishonesty cause “diplomatic incidents,” moments of crisis damaging relationships and potentially leading to war,

      I have to ask, “How can God condemn the lost with a witless witness such as Fundystan?” How could God condemn someone for deciding not to believe in the God of Jack Schnapp or Phil Kidd? Such condemnation would be unjust.

      Me? At times I barely hold onto faith. Those who taught me faith have degenerated so terribly! If that is what faith has done to them ….

      I would rather stand before God with honest doubt and unbelief because of the wickedness of his messengers than stand before Him stained with the same theology, the same sins they have done and and the same lies they have told.

      1. Dear rtmath:

        Thank you for another characteristically thoughtful post.

        Recently, a friend confided in me that like you, he had days when he ‘barely hold onto faith.’ He was rather astonished when I replied with an hearty, ‘praise God!’ He was nonplused and asked how I could say that. I replied that he was holding his doubts honestly, AND he found a place where he could express his faith honestly.

        Yes, our faith at times hangs like a thread. But what a thread it is!

        Blessings!

        Christian Socialist

        1. Christian Socialist,

          That was one of the most encouraging things I’ve read in a long time.
          Thank you.

          LL

        1. Except that fundamentalists call the God of Jack Schaap the “God of the Bible.”

          There is the big difficulty. Fundamentalism has, over time, created God in its own image. The big question is “How can we erase the images which men have painted over and disguised the face of God?”

        2. Dear rtgmath:

          ‘Fundamentalism has … created God in its own image.’

          Perhaps good insight is a family trait, but this is another excellent observation, rtgmath.

          Unquestionably, this can be misused … but I seem to recall that false images were smashed.

          Paul wrote that ‘though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete’ [2Co 10:3-6].

          Are IFBs entitled to their false caricatures of Yahweh? Paul offers little encouragement.

          Arguably, the IBF movement is largely pre-evangelized and needs the gospel.

          Who will take it to them?

          Christian Socialist

        3. ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’

          Luke 16:31

        4. Dear Big Gary:

          rtgmath is right on the money. You hammered it my friend. I’ve long advocated for some [mature, knowledgeable] believers returning to IFB congregations [I’m not calling them ‘churches’] for the purpose of witness. But reading the Luke text in context of this discussion, I’m hearing that it is time to shake the dust from our sandals.

          Blessings to you both!

          Christian Socialist

  15. Ugh, Kidd drags the name of Christ through the mud with idiocy like this.

    Reading any of his posts really reveals a spirit that is almost as far from the Jesus in the Gospels as possible.

  16. For what it’s worth, most everything in ministry is some form of glorified plagiarism (there really isn’t anything new under the sun) so I’m not surprised to see someone like Kidd recycle something like this and making it look like his own attempt at humor. With that said, it definitely is NOT something that worth recycling. So much for viewing every member of the human race as someone made in the image of God, and last time I checked, Genesis 1:27 is in the KJV.

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