165 thoughts on “Fundamentalist Gender Theory in 16 Seconds”

  1. It’s apropos that you’ve tagged this with IBS, because that’s how I feel when I hear fundamentalist men spew their patriarchal views about women.

  2. So, I am 50-something single woman with a career, paid-for home, active church ministry—and I don’t know how to make decisions? The smoke is pouring out of my ears!

      1. Well, you don’t know me or my church very well. I started it by myself, with the church’s blessing, and now have half a dozen trained volunteers working with me. My church, Bible-believing by the way, encourages women to serve in meaningful ministry.

    1. I had one of these types tell me that when my surviving parent died I should’ve foisted my college-aged self on one of my brothers so that I would have a man’s direction and protection and he would get a kind of second-string helpmeet. Which one, I asked him, the pothead, the one who had a job so classified he couldn’t talk about it to his wife, or the one who was battling a life-threatening communicable disease so serious the treatment kept him too tired to even talk most days? He had no answer.

      1. Yes, when I went to college my parents were recently divorced and remarried, and my sister was a druggie. I asked someone who was my “authority.” Thankfully, I chose God’s authority, and went on to a university and an excellent local church.

    2. fundynomore,

      I think it should be obvious that you have been deceived by the evil one and clearly are living a life of sin (with sin being anything that is perceived as a threat in the small mind of the MoG and IFBers in general). The fact that you didn’t go to school to earn your MRS. degree reveals just how deep the deception runs. You need to repent by marrying the first eligible bachelor that comes along, quit your job and learn to keep your opinion to yourself…

      Just typing that sarcasm makes me sick to my stomach, but I’ve unfortunately known a few people who wholeheartedly support it. The fact is I’m glad I am married to a strong-willed woman who is more than wiling to speak her mind and I know the last thing she would do is mindlessly follow what I say.

      How anyone could make the statement that Gray makes and really believe it shows just how deceived they are as to what it means for both men and women to be made in the image of God.

        1. Big Gary, what does one have to do to get the Big Doctorate of Serial Monogamy?

          Laters! πŸ˜‰

        2. Hmmm. Is serial monogamy Bondage and Discipline (BD), Dominance and Submission (DS), Sadism and Masochism (SM).

          Or is it perpetual devotion to Corn Flakes?

        3. For the DSM, you just have to get married, divorced, and remarried a few times.

          For the BDSM, I guess you have to get married, divorce, and then marry Big Gary. But first I’d have to clear that with Mrs. Big Gary (the current and only one so far).

        4. Well, rtgmath, I’m guessing there’s a kink covering corn flakes … but that would be cereal monogamy.

        5. Sigh. I don’t really know anything about kinks of any kind. The wife is so straight laced that yardsticks look crooked. Any mention of the topic results in further disapproval and deprivation.

          I think I am angriest with fundamentalism over what it has done to my marriage. Ignorance is not bliss. Knowledge is not sinful. But unless we divorce – something I do not want! – it is unlikely to ever change in any meaningful way. Fundamentalism’s basic intolerance for anything other than certainty and toe-the-line and follow-the-rules has made her right in her own mind to the exclusion of open discussion – or being nice.

          Not that I am perfect, mind you. I talk too much. I analyze. I explore. I investigate (even forbidden things). I am not handy with tools. I am a lot of trouble, I guess. If I snap in response to being snapped at, I am the only one at fault. She had good reason and I had no excuse.

          Sigh. Sorry for grousing. I could use some prayers about now.

        6. I apologize. Darrell, you can pull my last post if you have time. Otherwise, it is a testimony to a bad night.

          I shouldn’t complain, especially to you fine people. But awkward as it is, fundamentalism ruins lives. We make fun of its foibles, but those foibles have very real effects. They aren’t some harmless, goofy point of view.

    3. Just watching that guy speak for 16 seconds made me irritated… And I don’t even know who he is…
      I noticed in a certain Fundie movement I was in 20 years ago, that the men focus way to much on talking about SEX. A revival would roll around and I just knew I was gonna hear it… Subconsciously, it made us constantly think about sex and oh yea… the dangers of Rock and Roll!!! So I’d leave feeling more *Amorous* than necessary just cause it was talked about all night and wanting to get in the car and listen to Guns N Roses or something. ha!

    4. Save the fire and smoke for something else, honey. It’s not worth expending energy that could otherwise be used for something fun. I languished under authoritaa of the the holy sexist attitude, which varied according to what suited the men at the time, and got the h-e-double hockey sticks outa there once I was an adult. Success (or happiness, as the case may be) is the best revenge. I used to think it was up to me to prove them wrong, what a waste of my time and talent. Leave them to their puddle.

  3. Wow! Not what the book of Proverbs has to say at all.

    Why do Fundies have to go to extremes? Either it is ALL the girls’ fault or ALL the guys’ fault. Never a collision (or collusion) between two sinners.

      1. Gotta leave room for Jesus, Haymen!

        I remember a preacher boy telling the girls in my youth group “If you tell me what kind of music your public school boyfriend likes, I can tell you how far he will try to go on a date”

        My response today would be “and I can tell by how many hyles sermons you have on your ipod how far you would try to go during a counselling session”

        1. At my Christian high school, we had the Six Inch Rule (as I’m sure many of you did) between guys and girls. Because that’s the approximate width of a Bible.

        2. It depends on how you position the Bible. It’s more than six inches if you set it down the long way, but if you set it on edge it’s scarcely two inches.

  4. Why wasn’t I born with this “Get dames to do whatever I want” power??? Does this mean the girls I know are defective or that I’m really not a dude? I’m so confused….

    1. I tell ya. I got dizzy with this dame once. She was a real dish. She had these gams that I couldn’t wait to get my meathooks into. So after I get out of the hoosegow, I take this dish down to the speakeasy for a couple of glasses of giggle juice. After about 30 minutes of bumping gums, I says to her, “let’s make tracks back to my cave.” And she goes, “I am really joed. How about a honey coller and we call it a night?” She put the kibosh on my plans.

      πŸ™‚

  5. He seems a bit obsessed about inappropriateness between a guy and a girl.

    I think that most guys would testify that while they *wish* they could make a girl do whatever they say, real-life experience has shown that such is not true. I wonder if he (BG2) is projecting some kind of fantasy life in such statements.

    By the way, how close is too close in a picture to prove “ulterior motives”? Three feet? So, I am three feet, one inch apart – no more “ulterior motive”?

    1. IFBs are obsessed with sex – while in the church I heard about sex more than weekly – since I’ve left I hardly ever hear people talking about sex – it’s like crickets chirping

      1. I can count the number of times we got sex talk in the Lutheran youth group of my childhood on one hand and have fingers left over. These people have developed an entire nauseating jargon just for talking about it. Defrauding, purity, blah blah blargh!

    2. No one could get more perverted in the pulpit and constantly talk about inappropriate relationships than Jack Schaap. Seems like Schaap just talked about what women wore instead of from the Bible.

      Also Jim Vineyard’s son Tom is in hot water for sex scandals going back to the 1990’s but only a few of the sheep who surrender to the Vineyards have stayed.

  6. Wait a second… don’t these same people refuse to acknowledge that the girls who have been abused in their care are victims?

    Don’t they cart around this idea that their victims are somehow culpable as seductresses or something? And yet.. on whatever Sunday it suits them to flip the coin, they reverse their “revelation”.

    1. I think the underlying logic is that if you adhere perfectly to their “standards” and something bad happens to you, then it’s proooooobably not your fault. However, one of the “standards” is that your sexual bits shall not in no way never uh-uh be seen or touched by anybody who is not approved for that by the “standards.” And if you do not adhere perfectly to the “standards,” and you’re not a MOG or one of the MOG’s favorites, then whatever happens to you is 100 percent your fault.

      Hence blaming and shaming women and girls who are sexually abused.

        1. Heya Woke! MOg stands for Man of God, a Bible title given to the prophet Elisha by his young protects. Fundy preachers, however, tend to take for themselves.
          Alternatively, it stands for Man of Gid, the Fundy god, who has all the same prejudices and opinions as the preacher.

  7. A few things. First, this is what you get when you replace the Christian faith with false religion. Don’t mince words. The legalistic bondage that some IFBers preach is a false religion. James, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, told us what true religion is: not this. And once you replace faith in Christ with legalistic bondage, discussions about how close two people can be before they display ulterior motives is inevitable. This is pretty much exactly the kind of discussions the Pharisees were having when Jesus upended their world.

    Second, this kind of rant is embarrassing to anyone who has taken a psychology course or two. The only reason he suspects “ulterior motives” from something as innocent as a photograph is because he himself would have such thoughts. Projection much?

  8. What are the chances that Junior here has had multiple affairs? Plus isn’t his famous father friends/cronies with another famous preacher/comedian/womanizer Jack Hyles??

  9. Sadly, this isn’t something that’s IFB only. One has to look no further than the Mars Hill debacle to know that it’s ongoing problem even outside the fundamentalist movement.

    Granted, Driscoll is a different beast altogether, but the fact this MH grew so much despite his opinions on women and the role of men is very telling.

    1. I remember hardcore fundamentalists like Steven Anderson criticizing Schaap for praising the “Emergent Movement” and one Emerging TV Pastor stood up for Schaap after he was convicted and the video is still on YouTube and even Hillson heritic Carl Lentz defended Schaap. Sad thing is Schaap probably knows more Bible than Carl Lentz does.

        1. I personally don’t know what to believe. In the big picture, it doesn’t concern me, but after all the crap fundamentalist can leaders harbor, I’m not surprised by any of it anymore. I hope it’s not true, I would find it hard that McClaren, who was one of the authors that almost got me to stick with Christianity, would be involved in this. The guy’s like a teddy bear.

          That being said, seeing some of the people involved come out on that thread and apologize to Tony’s ex is somewhat disturbing.

      1. “Schaap probably knows more Bible than Carl Lentz does.”

        Knowing less Bible than Schaap is a little hard to imagine. Schaap knows that a Bible has a black cover and that it’s good to wave in the air. He’s not that clear on what may be inside that cover.

  10. Wouldn’t it have been cool if at least one woman had stood up and walked out after he said this? Don’t need a video of the auditorium to know that didn’t happen. Sigh..

    1. Bob Gray II is obviously acquainted with a species of girl unknown to me.
      So far, I have encountered no such girls in my many years of walking up and down on the earth.

      1. I get the feeling that not a lot of people in this thread were raised in the “smile all the damn time or I will beat you, because Jesus says so” school of child training. It’s very easy to have pliant, obedient girl-children when they know that if they don’t do exactly what they’re told with a smile if you happen to notice them and keep well out of your sight as much as possible, it’s the plumbing line again.

        Boys tend to get a bit more leeway in this system. If they’re properly boyish, of course.

    1. Maybe Paul’s words were intended for that one church to address a specific problem they were having. And maybe Paul’s anthropology was conditioned by his culture. I wouldn’t call Paul “wrong” because I don’t have a binary view of the universe, but I think we have improved knowledge and a more comprehensive social consensus about the equality of women in our time.

      1. The interpretation I grew up with was that the women were experiencing communal participatory worship** for the first time in their lives and the only model they had for lots of people sitting together and listening to someone else read an important document was students in a university lecture hall,* so they were standing up and asking questions. Ask the spouse who’s been participating more in the public sphere about all this when you get home, OK, says Paul.

        *Of which there were dozens in Alexandria alone.

        **Instead of sex-segregated ritual.

  11. Let’s play a game called “See How Angry This Can Make Me In 15 Seconds Or Less!”

    Result: …less angry than I could’ve been, theoretically, but still pretty tetchy about it. If I’m standing scandalously close to a guy (what does that even mean?), it’s because I want to be there. Because I like men. Because as shocking as it may seem, women have those feelings too, not just men.

    1. Dear Jay Croft:

      Personally, I’m fine with the star. But I do believe that they should name themselves, ‘Epiphany Fundamental Baptist Church.’ To make the deal more appealing, I’ll throw in ‘eating my shirt’ when it happens.

      Christian Socialist

  12. Wow. I can’t even share my thoughts. Just… wow.

    Who told Amy Carmichael what to do? Or Mary Slessor? Or Deborah? The disciples didn’t succeed in squelching Mary Magdalene’s enthusiasm after Jesus rose.

    Some men are idiots.

  13. This would be good entertainment if it were not for the naive dupes giving this ratchet-jaw audience.
    I’m setting in Reagan National Airport in D.C. now with two hours to kill till my next flight. This airport is crowded. There have been two ladies set next to this gray headed grandfather of 9 (me) :). We’ve talked and talked and are in very close proximity. OF COURSE NOW I HAVE MANIPULATED THEM BOTH because they are both mindless and easily led astray. One touched my arm as she told me things about her life.
    IT’S WORKING. Now the next step? Let’s see…….hmmmmm.

    If this jerk were preaching against tax evasion he would be a prime candidate for an IRS audit. Get my drift???

    I would have never guessed because I’m an approachable fatherly and grandfatherly big o’l teddy bear that I have ulterior motives.

    My young granddaughters get up on my lap (sometimes three at a time) and cuddle me, play with my hair and stroke my gray beard and take selfies. Let’s not even go there using this ratchet-jaw IFB garbage.

    I heard this same crap 40 years ago. It’s not what Fundies do in public or in photos. It’s what they do when NO BODY is watching. Wouldn’t it be interesting to be a fly on the wall around this ratchet-jaw?

    What a horse’s ass.

  14. I wonder if it ever occurs to these guys that they share almost identical opinions on women as the terrorist group ISIL? Women should cover head to toe, shouldn’t be too smart, are basically breeding machines to be kept at home, etc. In addition, they also don’t want anyone drinking, smoking, or watching movies. I could write several paragraphs pointing out their shared philosophies, but neither group is worth my time.

    1. The IFB brainwashed men are also closely similar to fundamental mormon men in connection to their mind set of women. The only difference is the IFB limit themselves to 1 (legal wife that is), but often have more on the side or wish they had more on the side (i.e. Solomon complex).

  15. Ok, I have to ask where this whole “women as temptresses” idea comes from (apart from a horrid misinterpretation of the creation myth of Genesis 2, of course).

    I look at my own experience, and I counted all the times I was “tempted” or “seduced” by a woman. The grand total was: ZERO. Now, there were plenty of times I was a bit of a chump in my younger days, and played the cur in a couple relationships. I can think of several shameful instances when I was less than a gentleman, played with a woman’s emotions for temporary physical gratification, and left some hearts broken. But I never for a moment imagine it was anyone’s fault but my own.

    Could this view of women come from the IFB male’s inability to recognize his own predatory nature, and in order to resolve the cognitive dissonance of his actions with his own perceived self-righteousness, he projects his own nefarious motivations onto the object of his desire? Just wondering.

    1. I have two verses for fundy men who preach about women being wicked (“strange”). One is from Job, about “set no wicked thing” and the other from 1 Corinthians “… God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able but will with the temptation make a way to escape that ye may be able to bear it”. If a guy is tempted maybe he should avert his eyes and then run like Joseph. I mean, who hasn’t heard Joseph made into a hero for fleeing the scene? If Fundy Man doesn’t run , then God didn’t make an exit available?

    2. Some have hypothesized that it comes about like this:

      1. I am a Man, made in God’s Image, in Total Control of My Granted Kingdom.

      2. SCHWING!

      3. Oh no! What happened? Why won’t my body obey my Godly Will? Who has knocked me from my God-Granted Pedestal of Power?! I can’t possibly be wrong about my God-Granted Pedestal of Power!

      4. So it must be her fault.

  16. I can’t decide whether I want to leave a comment or not. I mean, I want to, but I don’t want to. Does that make sense? Anyway, I’ll get back to you when I decide that I want to leave a comment.

      1. That’s a great idea. Maybe one of the men can help out. Or not. I mean, I don’t want to impose. And maybe I shouldn’t even ask the men here but instead ask my headship. That’s what I should do: I should ask my headship. But he’s not home right now!

        This being female thing is haaaaaard.

  17. Dear Bob Gray II

    An exhausted Sisera told Deborah to stand guard at the entry to the tent.

    ‘But Jael, Heber’s wife, took a tent peg and seized a hammer in her hand, and went secretly to him and drove the peg into his temple, and it went through into the ground; for he was sound asleep and exhausted. So he died’ [Jdg 4:21].

    Who told her to do that, Bob?

    Christian Socialist

  18. This is a pretty unique “college”, as it used to be called. Check out their catalog of courses for undergrad, masters and doctoral degrees. They include at least two courses on “typing,” including how to hold your hands and good posture.

    Typing?

    Rules include not bringing a TV to your room. It leaves out media of the past 20 years, so no mention of tablets, Netflix, Hulu, …

    The point isn’t that the school is benighted, it is that it is a money pump for the church, is given no thought beyond periodic chapel talks that are pointless and often about the church.

    It is a great example of how these churches prey on their own: pressure on families to get their kids to give four of the most precious years of their lives to useless “education” activities to enrich the church. These are genuinely self-centered, narcissistic men who routinely shear their flock for their own egos and bank accounts.

    Check out their on-line catalog to see if you would spend four years taking courses there.

    1. It’s hard for these schools to keep up with emerging technology. I recently heard that Bob Jones had banned all smart phones for a while. Now, a student can have a smart phone but is only allowed to access the internet using the school’s WiFi, so their browsing can be monitored. God forbid that the school treat them as adults.

      1. Or the student just turn off wifi while at the school and use their 4g…and turn it on again at McDonalds and Starbucks.

        These Fundy schools can’t keep the light out anymore, no matter how hard they try.

  19. That this clown would spend time discussing this topic in a chapel sermon reveals how utterly bankrupt his intellect is. Worthy of ridicule to the nth degree. He’s earned it fair and square.

  20. Or… Her arm is a foot long and they are trying to fit in the frame?
    Even if he is standing right by her, so what- it’s one second.
    Aaannnnd… It’s nice to at least see the blame game has shifted. When I was around everything was the girls fault… Little Trollopes..
    “Tells me a lot about the guy!”
    Yeah.. That he likes girls.

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