181 thoughts on “Fundy Tweet of the Week: Signs and Wonders”

      1. Dr. – According to the time stamp, I beat you by 4 minutes. Time to ditch the dial-up modem and 486 computer. 😉

        1. 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
          000200 PROGRAM-ID. HELLOWORLD.
          000300
          000400*
          000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
          000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION.
          000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL.
          000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL.
          000900
          001000 DATA DIVISION.
          001100 FILE SECTION.
          001200
          100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
          100100
          100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION.
          100300 BEGIN.
          100400 DISPLAY ” ” LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS.
          100500 DISPLAY “Yes, I do” LINE 15 POSITION 10.
          100600 STOP RUN.
          100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT.
          100800 EXIT.

        2. Dr. Howell would be pleased! You don’t appear to have forgotten any periods ,or have any extraneous periods left to spill out of the terminal onto the floor!

  1. I am guessing that Hamblin’s signature is the one near the top that is obscuring the actual text on the page. Because his signature is more important than anything anyone else has to say. Especially a woman. Amen?

    1. Yeah, what are they doing letting a woman write in a Bible?
      Although perhaps Mrs. John R. Rice gets a pass for using her husband’s first name as well as his last name.
      Discuss.

      1. According to older etiquette books, a married woman was supposed to refer to herself as Mrs. John Smith, never Mrs. Jane Smith, but this has changed in recent years. She was simply following accepted practice at the time.

        I do believe her signature is the only woman’s name. How to become an admired woman in the fundy world: be the widow of a famous preacher.

        1. My wife occasionally refers to herself that way, and it cracks me up every time.
          Neither of us changed our last names when we got married, and she doesn’t usually call herself “Mrs.” anything. I don’t know why she occasionally reverts to the 1920 stylebook.

        2. Rob:
          Yes, except she uses my legal name (which is Enormous Gary, but I don’t like to brag).

        3. I just found out that I actually should have a hyphenated last name. When I got married, I requested that my middle name be both my middle name and my maiden name, but more than four years later, I discovered I actually have a double last name…I must be a heathen.

        4. At weddings, they used to present “Mr. & Mrs. John Smith.” Legally, as one flesh/person, the wife was Mrs. John Smith. That was my understanding of it.
          According to my mother, though, once widowed, the woman, being no longer married, should henceforth go by Mrs. Jane Smith. So the last name stays the same, but you’re not supposed to use his first name anymore, since you’re not actually married after he dies.
          So Mrs. Rice should really be going by the name Mrs. Lloys Rice – to do otherwise is not proper etiquette for a widow, but a continued claim to the fame of her late husband’s name. So, pretension, really, with a reference to etiquette that doesn’t apply.

      2. This custom of a woman calling herself (or being called) by her husband’s first and last names with only a Mrs. in front has irked me all my life. Does anyone know if Mrs. Rice even HAD a first name? She was never called anything but Mrs. John R. Rice! Well, at least she chose a good verse.

        1. Wikipedia says Mrs. Rice’s maiden name was Lloys McClure Cooke.

          Maybe that’s why she called herself “Mrs. John R.”: Nobody could figure out how to pronounce Lloys.

        2. The Lama

          The one-l lama,
          He’s a priest.
          The two-l llama,
          He’s a beast.
          And I will bet
          A silk pajama
          There isn’t any
          Three-l lllama.

          — Ogden Nash

        3. To be fair, this (archaic) practice originated at a time when women’s worth, power, and social status derived form her husband. Although interestingly during the middle ages most fortunes were inherited by women and were passed along with the bride to her husband, so his power actually derived from her. This was largely because men were expendable, and rarely outlived their wives (I am speaking of customs among the knights and noble classes, no idea how the peasants fared). Long story short, it is considered polite today to refer to people by first name only. No “Mr., Mrs., preferred gender prefix”, and no last name. At my (large C Corp) even the CEO would be referred to by his first name only.

        4. Dr Fundy, things were somewhat reversed among the peasant/merchant classes- well rather, much more equality. A woman could hold her own land holdings, even though she did not go to battle herself if there was a war. (She sent someone in her name, or cash.) Women could be business owners, and were even sometimes in the trades, working alongside fathers, brothers, or husbands, and sometimes as widows. They were only infrequently actual members of guilds, but there were some. Women worked alongside their husbands in teh fields, as well as maintaining children, households, garden, and livestock. Widows managed holdings and even estates on the behalf of minor children. Widows might be known as ‘relict’ of (Mr) So-and-So, but were not ‘Mrs’ So-and-So during his life. And in marriage and divorce case law, women were generally refered to bu their ‘maiden’ name.

          We often forget that teh nobility only accounted for about 3% of the overall population- it’s just that they are usually the ones whome history is written about…

      3. It should be Mrs. Dr. John R. Rice. I don’t think they flaunt their credentials from Useless Fundie College enough as it is.

  2. How does getting an honorary doctorate relate to signing a bible? And how does signing a bible relate to being a fundamentalist? And why does all of this make him happy instead of incredibly depressed?

    1. Signing a Bible is the (only?) requirement for an honorary doctorate from the average Fundy Bible Kawledge.

    2. “Asked to sign a Bible tonight . . . happy to be a fundamentalist.”

      My guess is that he is aware that people (like us) have criticized this activity and he is proudly defending it.

      But notice how the definition of fundamentalism has morphed from its origin. It no longer means holding to the fundamentals of the Christian faith but means confirming a whole list of extra-biblical ideas, now apparently including signing Bibles, accepting the adulation of men.

        1. In the latest The Sword of the Lord, “Dr.” Smith wrote an editorial stating reasons why he is a Fundamentalist and happy of it. As I read the drivel, I wondered if it was an attempt at a rebuttal towards SFL comments. I would like to post a link, but cannot find one, and need to be out of here for an appointment with a real doctor.

          I think I’m going to start asking “Dr” preachers I come into contact with what was the subject of their dissertation.

        2. He could be a contributing factor. I don’t see him listed as a speaker at any Sword Conferences lately. It could be scheduling or that he is no longer welcome. It would be interesting to know when the separation began, and what exactly contributed to it. It should be more than a truthful article addressing genuine problems, but then in the IFB that does make one a heretic.

        3. Jeff Amsbaugh is my foster brother’s wife’s sister’s husband. I’m not sure what that makes me in relation to him, but he’s always struck me as surprisingly a nice guy, reasonable, has his own convictions but recognizes other Christians may have reached different conclusions. He said of Grace BC in Columbus, GA “We’re King James Only but not King James Ugly.” That would have been a very small step for me, raised GARBC. But for him still in his Sword circles, it would have been significant–a departure even. His recent, even more distancing, statements I see as yet another step in the right direction. Ref. the Why Don’t They Just Leave? posts. Sometimes baby steps are all they can manage.

        4. If it was a rebuttal to Jeff Amsbaugh’s article, the sword would be separating from him probably because he referenced (as I recall) the videotaping of girls chaning their clothes – a pretty clear swipe at Greg Neal. The Sword is totally defending Greg Neal, so that may be what has them at odds.

        5. It’s very hard to leave. In Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, after food, water, warmth, security, and shelter (which thankfully most of us have) is belonging – family, friends, and community. That’s what the IFB is to many – one’s entire social circle, especially if one grew up in Christian school, attended fundy U, and now works in a fundy ministry. Stepping away from that forces people to face losses at a very deep personal level.

        6. Michael(aoos) That answers a question I had. WE still need to our paths to cross long enough for dinner.

          PW- I had a family member recently challenge me as to why I’m still in an IFB church, even though it is of the “lite” variety. My reason was my College and Career class. That if I left, no one would do anything with that group, and our lessons and discussions are designed to make them question and compare IFB tradition with the previous 1900 years of church tradition and what Scripture actually says. Between his comments and your reminder of Maslow’s list, maybe I need to reassess my reasons and figure out if it is a good idea for me to stay. It wouldn’t be the first time I left a “security blanket”, nor probably the last.

        7. THIS made me laugh: “I think I’m going to start asking “Dr” preachers I come into contact with what was the subject of their dissertation.”

          Don’t you know?! Wimmen and britches. Add some makeup, too. (Pun intended).

    3. Now Big Gary is advocating Dr. Spock? Why does this somehow not surprise me? 🙂

      What’s next, is SFL going to call for a boycott of Wheel Of Fortune?

      1. The TV game show, the card game, the Vegas game, or the generic spin to win wheel used in many places to assign prizes or money?
        Please be specific, as generalizations lead to confusion and hypocrisy.

        1. This is, embarrassingly, in the wrong spot. See repeat below.

          George is an annoying moron.

      2. Stacy, I’m not advocating anything. Not even my plan to have all kids raised on communal child farms.
        (I jest).

        But why boycott Wheel of Fortune? I guess I missed that crusade.

        1. stacy didn’t like the gloryhole so we tried a little game I call Wheel of Fortune. I guess she didn’t like that either.

        1. Eh, Pat probably doesn’t even know what the person he pays to tweet for him says on that there Twitter machine.

        2. Clarification: I don’t understand the “unpatriotic racist” non-sequitur, but I like seeing a Hollywood type with some spine going against the flow.

        3. Yeah, how does it make any sense to call anyone unpatriotic and/or a racist based on the person’s views about meterology?

          Aside to Stacy: My question is rhetorical. Please don’t offer an explanation of the foregoing.

        4. Stacy Mcandersonis so good at what he/she is doing. Too good I think. And not hit-and-run like other IFB guerrillas. Replete with the smell of Poe.

          So I say Well played, Stacy. Your antics, whether sincere or duplicitous, are at least entertaining!

          (Anderson in the name is just too suspicious!)

    1. I have a few books signed by the authors. I have no desire to have a signed book (the books value lies in its ideas, not in graffiti), but it was a chance to meet the author and discuss some points of interest – which authors, btw, love.

  3. Interesting Intro to the Bible. One of John R. Rice’s great works. Hmmm……

    My mom has a Bible with signatures like that. Doctors Bob Jr and III and Ian Paisley and their contemptibles ( I mean contemporaries…sorry) Whole bunch of them. I’m keeping it because like it or not Ian Paisley was a Member of Parliament and an historical figure outside of fundamentalism. Don’t know if it will ever be worth anything someday but just in case…….

    1. Paisley is definitely a historical figure of some importance.
      If you had Osama Bin Laden’s signature, you wouldn’t throw it away, would you? I wouldn’t. Some archive will want it some day.

      1. I just had a vision of some great great grandchild of mine taking my Bible to a future version of antique roadshow and the host explaining “Yes in some religious circles certain men would be asked to autograph Bibles. We don’t know how this practice started or what the purpose was. We don’t know who these men were but I see you have an autograph of Ian Paisley……etc etc etc…..

  4. What makes me so sad about this is that “they” (fundamentalists) ARE preaching truth (for the most part), but they so often do it in the wrong way (without love and, as we see from this post, without humility). So when they stand in judgment, will God say well done good and faithful servant, or will He say depart from Me I never knew you? I don’t know. I have contacted these men via email a few times to express my views to them. I actually received “gracious” replies back, but NEVER a “you know, maybe I should change a little bit” or anything to that effect. I just wish I knew what to say to them to help them see that “tradition” and the “old paths” don’t constitute a relationship with Jesus Christ. I may be bashed here, but honestly let’s pray for these “fundy” giants. God loves their souls just as much as he loves any of ours and He is the only one that can break through their “blindness”. Would anyone agree to pray with me for these guys? Or maybe many of you already are?

    1. We definitely should pray for them. Many of them are so close but so far. They’ve redefined “legalism” so it doesn’t apply to them, conveniently ignoring the book of Galatians, written to believers who thought they could get closer to God by following rules.

    2. I’m fairly reserved about the “preaching truth” bit. Most of the fundy churches I attended simply didn’t, and the little truth they may have had was distorted by bad doctrine and bad practice. For example, I would hear “you are saved by grace”, but then the entire sermon would be about God being angry with your sin, and you need to “get right with God” – never mind the fact that I was “made right with God” at Calvary. So, I am pretty hesitant about calling fundy teaching truth…

      1. Yeah, my pastor would base a sermon on one isolated verse and then support it with one or two other verses from completely different parts of the bible that were completely taken out of context.

        You would think that his teaching was biblical if you didn’t know the bible well, but so much of it was really wrong, and he was completely ignoring huge parts of the bible.

      2. Even if they were preaching Truth I would still have an issue. Truth can be used in two ways. Ir can set you free or it can beat you into submission. Also too many fundamentalists sincerely believe they are not preaching The Truth unless they make it as offensive as they possibly can. They would call that Straight Preaching. Personally I would call it Being A Jerk.

    3. Just like Jesus’ problem with the Pharisees, not that they were getting everything wrong, but that they were getting so much right and still missing the point – a gospel mediated by love and grace.

  5. For some reason I’m musing on this as an argument either for or against Kindle and e-books in general. After all, you can’t scribble in the margins of one.

    (for the record, I can’t stand them 👿 )

    1. Yeah, as often as I underline,mark, or gloss my texts, I can’t wrap my head around a tine glowing screen. Ballpoint pen doesn’t write very well on it.

  6. “Asked to sign a Bible tonight . . . happy to be a fundamentalist.”

    Let’s make this a game. Put together two things that have nothing in common together. I’ll start:

    “Just submitted my TPS reports……..happy to be Irish.”

    1. “Never spent a dime on Sunday (the Lord’s Day)…happy to be obeying God!” 😛

      (My fundy pastor father-in-law holds to this rule, even to the point of refusing to stop for food (while traveling) until it was 12:00 am Monday (true story).

  7. I wonder if this custom of having preachers sign your bible is strictly Fundy or if other churches practice it. Back in my days in the fundy fold I often had preachers sign my Bible, and even got a personal sermon by Lee Roberson when I told him it was a brand new bible I had just bought. I couldn’t make out a word of what he said as he was old and his voice was raspy, I guess he said to read it every day.

    1. Well, collecting autographs has been around for some time. People will often have autographed baseballs or basketballs or footballs.

      I expect that someone desired to be like the world but different and preached some message about how it was worldly to collect sports stars autographs but to ignore the preacher… and lo! was born the practice of collecting preacher’s autographs in their tool of trade — the Bible.

      Personally, I don’t like the practice; I don’t collect autographs and have never asked a preacher to sign any Bible.

      I discourage my kids from doing this as well (it smacks too much of hero-worship) – discourage getting sports autographs as well. My anti-signing Bible stance put me at odds with a former church (where it was strongly encouraged that everyone get their bible signed by famous preachers).

      If others want to do it – fine, but I don’t like the pulpit used to encourage everyone to do this.

      Having said all of that, I was completely blown away when a kid asked me to sign his Bible; I still think he didn’t really mean me.

    2. I can only speak for an ELCA and an ECUSA congregation. The idea was not even in our brain meats.

      You sign a book because you’re somewhat famous and you wrote it. Or you might sign a special album as part of a ritual acknowledging that another period of your life has begun (school yearbooks, etc.). Signing a Bible would only be done if the Bible were being given as a gift with a personal note on the endpapers. And collecting the signatures of preachers, in a Bible yet, as if they were rock stars–! No, no, no, no, no! I can just see my old pastors’ reaction to that! The point of preaching is supposed to be presenting your best understanding of the word of God and getting yourself out of the way!

        1. I’m surprised the Fundy colleges don’t advertise that feature in their student recruiting brochures.

  8. How it should’ve gone: “Asked to sign a Bible tonight…refused, replying, ‘He must increase, but I must decrease.'”

  9. The lack of reverence for what he claims to be God’s word disturbs me. Sometimes the majority of american xianity does. Can you imagine a mulsim Sheikh signing a Quran? I have to imagine they would consider it blasphemous. In fact, I’m going to ask my friend now that I think about it…..

  10. What if you were fundy and Jack Schaap had signed your bible? Would you throw it away and start over with signatures? The point being all those Men and Mrs. Men are sinners

  11. I used to have this done back in the day before I knew any better and was told that it was perfectly fine. I have even signed some Bibles myself (again, way back in the past).

    Now, I see this for what it is: Bible defacement and more preacher/preacher’s wife worship. We used to collect signatures and display them like trophies as if they were status symbols or part of a collection: we were PROUD of them! If a person asked me to sign their Bible today, I would politely refuse and explain why we should not deface the scriptures.

    One major excuse for having this done was to pray for the preacher. If you want to pray for me, take a tract or prayer card and do it! Do not deface God’s Book!

    1. Well, that’s a different take on it; usually, I’ve only seen people signing on the covers or the blank pages at the beginning or end, not on the Bible text itself. I don’t consider it defacing, though I am disposed to discourage the practice.

    2. I had so many signatures in the front of mine, I had people sign the tops of pages in Proverbs and told them that way I’d pray for them once a month. It did give them pause but they did it.

      Lord, forgive me, because I knew not what I did.

  12. Ok, pardon my insanity regarding details, but in the “honorable mention” tweet, what is that in the bottom right corner? It looks like some medical apparatus/satellite/broken robot to me. Any thoughts?

    1. Looks like a tacky old-lady purse one might find on Etsy. Maybe it’s to carry all his honorable unmentionables in.

      1. UW,
        So I was thinking your Man Card needs to be snipped somewhat for even knowing what etsy is. -1
        But then I know what it is too, but only because I’m happily married, and keeping a happy wife is a major contributor to happy life, and part of that is listening to her talk about etsy when I don’t even care what etsy is. And I happen to know you’re happily married, so +1.
        And then I visited etsy just so I could intelligently rag on you and found they now have some pretty cool guy stuff, so +1 again.
        But you’ve apparently been checking out old lady bags, so -1.

        All in all my impression of you remains unchanged–you’re a pretty cool guy. 😎

        1. ….with a wife and two daughters, a mom, eleven(three sort of) sister-in-laws, and thirteen nieces. All of which create and buy crafty items. When I first heard them talking about Etsy, I was ignorant and clueless. (Both of which I am expert in, but still try hard not to let it show too often.) Now that the ignorance is cured, I am once again hip and cool.

          And now a word of caution to the lurkers and trolls, Etsy is very non-fundy in some of the items for sale. Please do not taint your minds because of me. I’d hate to cause a weaker brother or sister to fall..

        2. Oh, you mean the Standard Fundamentalist CYA Disclaimer, well represented by the little insert in every book sold by the BJU bookstore.

          Something like, “Just because we are selling this book does not mean we endorse or subscribe to everything in it nor everything the author has produced or will produce in the future.”

          It’s both humorous and annoying at once.

          Yes, I get it. I understand. But isn’t it sad you have to be So Paranoid that someone out there is going to label you a compromiser, a FINO (Fundy In Name Only–I just made that up!) because they dug enough to find out you’re not at least 3rd degree separated from something some other fundy considers worldly?

          And yet, there apparently diggers out there. Who is anal enough to volunteer for a job like that?

        3. MAOOS, you can’t use “FINO”. It is too much like “wino”. You are a worldly, backslidden, liberal compromiser if you insist in using “FINO”. Just think of the damage you’ll do to the cause of Christ if someone hears you use that word and thinks you are talking about a wino.

          In case you’re wondering, that is total sarcasm. Always wear your figurative hardhat when reading my posts.

        4. Michael (AOOS), knowing the fundy propensity for “research” so they will “know how to tell you when you are wrong”, I figured I’d pique their curiosity and they would look around. This way, I can very smugly say “I warned you” when the troll comments begin about the sinful sites. Just covering my backside, since I already placed one heathen link on this conversation string.

  13. I had a history/government teacher in the Christian school tell us not to have a preacher sign our Bibles after a service, because that was time he could spend speaking to people, who could use some counseling.

  14. I have a Bible signed by Shelton Smith and Jack Schaap…so in that book they are on the “same page.” 🙂

    1. I had Ruckman’s signature on one side and John MacArthur’s on the other side, and I got a chuckle at the thought of their scrawls glaring at each other.

  15. I almost want to ask one of these IFB stalwarts to sign one of my Bibles just to get a reaction. But then, would they even sign an ESV, NASB, NIV, or even NKJV?

      1. I should. I have one.
        Kind of weird reading, though. Maybe it would be easier to understand if I could read the original. Unless, of course, there are HinduFundies to tell me what it says a snippet at a time..

        Too bad I don’t have my dad’s old copy of Good News For Modern Man.

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