358 thoughts on “Political Statements”

        1. I was hoping it was a quotation from Nicolus Cage in “Trapped in Paradise”. My thought was that no one is that tightly wound.

        2. If you get the first post, it is alleged that Natalie will send you a butt cushion. I’ve been first a few times and haven’t received one yet. Like I said, unlocking the first post achievement is a joke.

  1. Fundy theology teaches that Democrats cannot be Christians. Therefore, they wouldn’t WANT them to attend their church.

    1. But you’d think they would at least want to get them saved.

      I guess as long as nobody leaves for a bathroom break during the invitation that the Spirit won’t be hindered by insulting political slogans.

      1. But this guy knows he can control his existing in-group and clearly only wants attract like-minded and fervent Republicans. Evil librul Democrats would not fit in well with his crowd; he would be threatened by their disinclination to adopt his black-and-white worldview with MOG at the helm.

      1. Why would anyone have hated democrats in the 80s?? I would think all people would feel towards 1980s democrats was pity. πŸ˜‰

    2. All joking aside, the democrat party has been pretty clear that Christianity is not allowed in their party. Of course that has not always been the case.

      Oh, and I am glad my republican pastors don’t have political bumper stickers on their cars.

      1. “All joking aside, the democrat party has been pretty clear that Christianity is not allowed in their party.”

        Really? Funny, they never told me that. Wasn’t on any of the paperwork when I signed on as a precinct committee person, or to work for the campaigns. You’d think that here in ‘unchurched’ Oregon I would have known if that was the policy. :mrgreen:

        1. Agree with BG. I’m not sure if Poe, or Troll, but that level of flamboyant offensive comment doesn’t deserve to be engaged.

      2. Yep. The voted to remove God in their platform. Check out their Convention kickoff.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zYo3yWY-rU

        And those same Democrats have been removing God from our schools and places all over the country.

        Whether or not a person is saved is quite frankly b/t that person and God. But I personally went through all my beliefs when I left the IFB and made sure of what I stand for. I don’t just go and pull the lever for the “R” each time there is an election.

        I could never vote for a party that voted to remove God. That’s just shameful. Obama said this in 2009, “We are no longer a Christian country.” He also said this, “The future does not belong to those who criticize Islam.” Wow. That’s pretty telling right there.

  2. Wait…is that my Dad’s truck?? When my parents came to visit me last fall, I backed their vehicle into my driveway so passers-by couldn’t see the bumper stickers. 😳

    1. Hahaha!!!! Funny story from the other side:

      When my sister who works for WCBC was still a student there, my VERY liberal California hippie aunt drove up from Los Angeles to pick up my sister for Thanksgiving. My sister later told us that she was SO EMBARRASSED because my aunt had a big OPPOSE PROPOSITION 8 bumper sticker on her car.

      1. It has been a few years since I have driven on that campus. Having been inspire by these posts, I think my next visit should be done in a rented VW bus with tie dye paint, long strings of beads dangling as window curtains, and flower stickers all over for the next time I visit….Oh, and the strong smell of burning incense coming out from all sides.

        :mrgreen:

  3. Truth in advertising is, after all, a good thing. If you go, at least you were warned. You’ll probably be outed in a heartbeat, though, since your wife isn’t likely to be wearing hose, an over-the-knee skirt, and a blouse with elbow-length sleeves.

  4. Somewhat surprised that he isn’t proudly sporting a Black Robed Regiment sticker too. Then again, perhaps that movement is too evangelical/ecumenical for fundies.

  5. I’ve definitely crossed churches off my list of places I want to attend based on too many bumper stickers like that in the parking lot that weren’t even the Pastor’s. If the Pastor has that, no way am I attending.

    1. One fun memory from my fundy youth: our church got on this anti-Masonic kick for awhile and passed out the Chick tract about how if you are a Mason then your whole family will become possessed by demons. An elderly couple in our church went out and got Masonic and Eastern Star bumper stickers and proudly displayed them on their vehicle. They always parked it right beside the main entrance to the church where everyone could see.

      1. When my parents were on their honeymoon through Michigan and Canada (in 1949)there was a problem cashing travelers checks. They would walk through the bank, she with her Eastern Star pin and he with his Knights of Columbus pin, until they spotted a teller with an “appropriate” pin.

    2. I’m currently looking for a church, and I’ve avoided visiting two different churches in the area because their websites had political items very similar to those bumper stickers. I’m sorry, even were I to agree with that, I don’t want my church mixing with my politics like that. My theology may inform my personal politics, but how it does is entirely up to me. And I’m certainly not interested in a church that’s so obviously willing to offend in the peripherals.

  6. Argh! The whole Jesus was a Republican, Biblical conservative = political conservative mentality drives me up a WALL!

    1. Likewise! Such a thing is why I have been lately less and less a Republican, and more and more going towards libertarianism.

  7. Any bumper stickers I’ve seen in our church parking lot are usually “The Episcopal Church welcomes you” or “Coexist” with the various religious symbols. Might be a Denver Bronco fan or two in there as well.

    1. I love the coexist bumper sticker, but I’m not sure if my wife would be happy with me putting one on our car.

    2. I have the “The Episcopal Church Welcomes You” sticker, a “Jesus Was A Liberal” sticker, and a whole host of liberal/Democrat stickers, University of Oregon stickers, SCA stickers, Harry Potter stickers, and Dr Who stickers. (I drive a Volvo wagon- all of the stickers are on the back hatch, and yes, I can see out of the window.) I am not the only one with liberal/Episcopal stickers in our church parking lot, but I’m the only one with that _many_ stickers. But I am not unusual in Portland- there’s lots of people with lots of stickers on their cars here. Only drawback? I get tailgated a lot, by people reading my car. πŸ˜†

    3. Our Episcopal congregation has a “Peace Frog” truck next to a “Nobama” station wagon most weeks. We get along pretty well by keeping politics out of the sanctuary. If the priest talks politics in the parish hall at all, it’s generally to moderate discussions. But then we believe in the Middle Way.

      (Also, the “Nobama” driver is the sweetest nicest little old lady you could imagine, and our hard-working verger, bless her.)

  8. Laughing…

    Darrell, you’re so funny. Are you really thinking the owner of that lovely Power-in-the-Blood-red Dodge is interested in bringing people of all stripes closer to Jesus?

    I’ll bet his Facebook wall reads like a Chick Tract, that is, if he’s backslidden enough to have a Facebook…

    Sigh…

    1. LOL @ power-in-the-blood-red. A lady in my parents’ church once got a new red suburban and my mother told her that “only bold women drive red cars.”

  9. So what you’re saying is that Democrats can’t go to church with people that have different political views from their own? Are Dems so weak that they need everyone to agree with them? “Oh, my pastor has a different view then my own, I will either have to agree with him, or find another place to worship. Especially since I choose my church, not based on if they preach the Bible, but how they vote.”

    1. I think it has less to do with whether Democrats are comfortable going to church with Republicans and a lot more to do with HOW political conservatives tend to treat political liberals who attend their church.

    2. I think the point is that if the pastor has bumper stickers like that, he’ll be preachin’ against libruls, Democrats, environmentalists, etc. If you happen to fit into one of those categories you will sit in the pew and listen to the loud mouth scream and yell that the above groups “are not welcome and they are the problem in this country.”
      And just so you know I am not using hyperbole, the text in quotations above is exactly what I heard on a weekly basis. That is before I got out. Now my Sunday mornings are much quieter.

      1. Bedside Baptist, Rev. Pillow officiating?

        (It’s so old because it’s so good. We need to trot these out every once in a while.)

  10. I don’t go to church because if I wanted political propaganda I’d just go to a Tea Party rally. They are virtually the same thing now that many, if not most, evangelical churches have become nothing more than mouthpieces preaching GOP talking points.

    1. Mega-dittoes Catholic Gate-Crasher! I laffed at a sticker a couple days ago that said “Bend Over” spelled with an Obama stripy O. Mmm, yep that’s about how I feel esp with the health care debacle.

      BUT, the example of the early church’s transcendence of strong social and economic categories encourages me that we should be able to set aside political differences too in order to focus on Jesus.

      Or maybe we shouldn’t just “set aside”–for example, I don’t agree with the “let’s pretend the incompatibilities between our faiths don’t really matter” implication of the COEXIST sticker. Maybe as fellow-Christians who disagree politically we should proactively work toward dialogue about how Jesus would speak to the current political issues, let the iron sharpen the iron instead of shying away from the inescapable difficulty, and let the world see how the fruit of the Spirit can be miraculously evident in our discourse and our continuing loving relationships.

      So, though I completely agree with the bumper stickers and affirm Mr. Red Truck Guy’s Constitutionally guaranteed right to proclaim his beliefs, USA culture takes those statements as dialogue-stifling and in-your-face which is probably counter-productive for Kingdom expansion. Thanks, Darrell, for provoking my thought on that.

      Maybe Tiarali can help me out with this–I’ve heard that in Australian culture it’s NOT impolite to voice a strong opinion that you know others in your circle of conversation will disagree with and subsequently have what Americans would consider a vociferous relationship-damaging argument (vs. the American taboo of discussing religion or politics). Apparently, it’s honoring to your philosophical opponent to provide them a forum in which they can emphatically voice the reasoning behind their thoughts. I could be wrong on that, but I’d love to know if my source was accurate. (Which being interpreted is, I’m wussing on my proposition and leaving myself open to being shot down. I must be a culturally polite American.)

      1. Hmm, I didn’t get that out of “Coexist”. I just got “stop killing each other and demonizing each other.” I can be diametrically opposed to an idea but still live with the person who holds it.

        1. I’m totally down with “coexist” per se, because Jesus doesn’t force truth on people but rather loves them into the Kingdom or guides them to repentance with kindness.

          The killing or expressed desire to literally exterminate only seems to be coming from Islam against Judaism and Christianity. but I don’t think Islam is the primary target group of the message.

          Demonizing…mmm, yeah I think I’m safely on the side of the loving and kind God to say that at least what the circumscribed pentagram represents IS in fact demonic, if not perhaps others there represented as well. So, guilty.

          I remain with my original impression that the “Coexist” sticker message is against the idea that obective truth excludes the fundamental validity of other religions. What is radical (in the sense of being fundamentally different) about “theologically intolerant” Christianity is its capability and even enablement of truly loving, peaceful COEXISTance when properly practiced.

      2. Hi πŸ™‚ I honestly have no idea if there’s a general Australian consensus. Here, everybody has to vote by law, so you get a lot of donkey votes from people who don’t have a strong opinion on an issue. Some people like to talk politics, other people don’t. You would probably get a lot more tolerance for liberal ideas here than it seems to be in America. Bizarrely, our conservative party is named the Liberal Party. Someone thought that one out :/

        But yeah. It’s not taboo to talk about politics, but if you’re rude about it people won’t like it.

        1. In Japan, the main conservative party is called the Liberal Democratic Party.

          And in Argentina, the Radical Party is a centrist-conservative party.

          Who picks these names?

          Of course, in the U.S., the two main parties are the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. According to my dictionaries (I did look this up once), “democratic” and “republican” have identical, or almost identical definitions. Make of that what you will.

        2. Actually, BG, I think the two parties are VERY aptly named. “Democratic” emphasizes the “power from the people” side of American political philosophy. “Republican” represents the “elected representatives acting on behalf of the people” side of American political philosophy. Perhaps it’s coincidence, but each party largely embraces, at least in its core tenets (politicians themselves are another matter), that facet of American political philosophy that its name most closely denotes.

  11. Is that a Volvo beside the Dodge? Prolly a bike rack on the back too. Oh, dear. They’ve been infiltrated! Get a rope!

    In all seriousness though, pastors are human just like the rest of us. This fellow is entitled to his opinions. Whether it’s prudent for him to express them in such, uh, strong terms may be a different matter.

    1. And that’s the thing: is this wise if the purpose of that church is to proclaim the Gospel? Paul held to the truth of the Gospel (of course), but he was willing to lay everything else aside. I don’t want any artificial stumbling blocks to keep people from knowing Jesus (Jesus Himself is a stumbling block so why add my own barriers to people?)

      Of course, there’s a balance. I don’t want to become a bland cipher with no opinions, like a robot spouting nothing but the Romans Road. I believe I have talents and interests and skills and a personality that God can use. But I shouldn’t use my interests to purposefully alienate or anger other people.

      1. “I don’t want any artificial stumbling blocks to keep people from knowing Jesus (Jesus Himself is a stumbling block so why add my own barriers to people?)” So eloquently stated. My feelings exactly. I drifted away from the faith for a long time due to not being able to reconcile my political views with what seemed to be the prevailing politics of fundamentalist/evangelical Christianity. We now attend a church that is very “conservative” theologically. I would venture to guess that the clergy and 75% of the congregation vote republican. But my church goes out of its way not to preach politics, or become too “issue” driven from the pulpit. They simply preach the Gospel Sunday after Sunday. By steering away from politics, my church has really helped me to overcome my own issues of faith and politics and focus on the bond of Christ that we all share as believers.

      2. Pastor’s Wife wrote: “And that’s the thing: is this wise if the purpose of that church is to proclaim the Gospel? Paul held to the truth of the Gospel (of course), but he was willing to lay everything else aside. I don’t want any artificial stumbling blocks to keep people from knowing Jesus (Jesus Himself is a stumbling block so why add my own barriers to people?)”

        I believe you hit the nail on the head here!

    2. What makes no sense to me is the emphasis on the ‘appearance of evil’. Where is the emphasis on the appearance of God’s Love? As I am drawn to learn more of Grace and God’s Love, I have found so much insight from SFL, and very little from most bumper stickers and church signs.

  12. One Sunday several years ago, I visited a Nazarene church served by a very right-wing pastor. I knew I was going to have an uncomfortable morning at worship when, shortly after the service began, he said, “Now, I’m not going to say for sure that Obama is the Antichrist, but all the signs are there that if he’s elected we’re heading right for the Great Tribulation.”

    The church should have been glad that no one from the IRS was visiting that day.

    1. Interestingly, we were told the same thing during the Clinton presidency. And, no doubt, we will hear the same thing again when our next Democrat president is elected.

    2. The IRS wouldn’t even have to ATTEND services around here. During the last election, a local radio station had two bishops from area churches in the inner-city lauding the Democratic candidate and implying that a follower of Christ would HAVE to vote for that candidate. (I wish I remember the exact words. My mouth dropped to the floor because this wasn’t in church to the congregation; this was on the radio.)

  13. Obviously the MOG didn’t read the church operating manual to teach him to wash and armor-all his truck. Heathen.

  14. If I didn’t have strongly held principles against defiling my jalopy with bumper stickers, I’d totally get something with a “Thank God DOMA is dead” theme, since that’s the latest topic my minister likes to harp on. πŸ™„

    1. I’m wondering if that’s where my reaction is coming from. I find bumper stickers distasteful at best. Regardless of the sentiments they contain.

    1. Dear Persnickety Polecat:

      I’d be tempted to attend wearing my Socialist Party T-shirt — just to goad the guy.

      After worship — yes, I’m straining a definition — I’d make a point of asking how separated he can be while epitomizing the very spirit of humanistic secularity.

      Speaking of separation, were I a member, I’d likely separate his butt cheeks with a deeply planted hymnbook.

      Christian Socialist

      1. “I’d likely separate his butt cheeks with a deeply planted hymnbook.”

        You’d do that in Christian love, right?

        1. Dear semp:

          The word ‘likely’ was chosen for the obvious wiggle room. Also, I presumed that readers would catch the hyperbole. But then, this is the internet. You never know.

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

      2. I don’t have a Socialist party t-shirt, but I was wearing my “Potter/Weasley ’08” shirt one day and ran into a former friend from the A/G church we used to attend. We chatted a bit, and I noticed she kept looking at me funny. I found out why when she suddenly launched into a diatribe on witchcraft and Harry Potter and how it was leading our children into Satan’s mouth, etc etc etc. I smiled and told her that it was *FICTION*, a modern fairy tale, and by the way, did she feel the same about C.S. Lewis’ _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_? She snarled something about my future arrival in Hell and stomped off.

        Lovely witness. I was soooo convinced.

        1. Dear Liutgard:

          The last I heard, Rowling is a member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Personally, I find it difficult to hear Dumbledore’s discussion of ‘love’ without hearing Jesus’ summary of the law.

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

        2. I thought she was Church of Scotland? At any rate, yes, I noted that tone in what Dumbledore said also. There is a deep thread of Christian ethic in the story, and that is part of why I like it so much.

        3. Dear Liutgard:

          Yes. You are correct. Church of Scotland. Apologies to you and Rawling!

          As an aside, I once told someone that the Harry Potter series should NOT be added to public school curricula because as Christian literature, the use of it would violate church/state separation. It was funny. They gawked at as if I’d just stepped off a spaceship and had three heads. LOL!

          Christian Socialist

  15. I once served in a church that had cars in the parking lot displaying the likes of, “Happiness is a new president” (during a Republican administration). So the gate swings both ways. I personally do not believe in bumper stickers.

    1. “I personally do not believe in bumper stickers.”

      Oh, well if that is the case, let me leave you with this tract and I would like to pray with you that you would come to know and accept bumper stickers into your life.

      1. ROTFL!

        My old bo,mber is plastered with bumper stickers. Some are pro-life. Some are Christian/Catholic. One says “ROLL TIDE.” It’s an eclectic collection.

        My former pastor used to say, “Diane’s car is so old she has to keep it together with bumper stickers.”

        1. Unfortunately, their “church history” page is blank so we don’t know the story yet. πŸ˜€

        2. I clicked on the link, looks like a real church. I also looked on their calendar and they have a business meeting tomorrow night. That ought to be fun.

        3. Their address is 610 Republican Road, so that may have something to do with it. Unless the road was named that in honor of the church – that is a possibility. Either way, it’s an odd name for a church.

        4. @KoB huh! I checked google maps, and that appears to be a fairly long road, and you wouldn’t think it’s a vanity road name being a state highway. From street view it says they were founded 1805. IDK if were founded with that name, but that would be before the name Republican became associated with a political party. I still would think “monarchy baptist” would be an odd name for a church too, but there was such a think as a Holy Roman Empire, so it wouldn’t be the first time someone confused a type of government with their religion.

        5. I passed this church recently, as it’s about 20 minutes from where I live. It is indeed named for the road it’s on.

    2. My husband doesn’t like them either although I’ve been tempted to put one on from time to time. The only one I ever did was “This car climbed Mt. Washington” on our old minivan.

    1. Actually, the OT bans the use of chariots. And we know that Jesus and the apostles walked. So . . .

      I GUESS CARS ARE A SIN!!!!! 😯

      1. Apparently, the Apostles all shared a Honda:

        “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one Accord in one place.”
        Acts 2:1 (KJV)

        That must have been a tight fit when they all went somewhere.

  16. I really do think the “fire Obama” (or “fire Bush”) stickers just look stupid after whichever President everyone is hating on gets elected to his second term in office. After that, it’s only death or impeachment, folks, so you might want to send a bumper sticker to your representative in Congress, but I don’t want to see it.

    1. I never had an explicitly anti-Bush sticker on my car, no matter how much I hated his policies. He was the President, whether I liked it or not, and I figure I should respect the office, even if I don’t respect the man in it.

      1. Plus, doesn’t it say somewhere that we are to pray for these folks? I don’t believe the Bible specifies party affiliation!

    2. Haven’t you seen all the conspiracy theories? Obama is going to declare himself King and Dictator For Life and he’s NEVER going to leave! Muahahahaha!!!

  17. Dear Darrell:

    It astonishes me that people don’t challenge this stuff. I once spent some years in a church with a pastor who confided in a few people that he was a democratic socialist. He would NEVER put a sign on the parsonage lawn or a bumper sticker on his vehicles. He knew that it would be inappropriate.

    I would hardly have less respect for this guy if he wore a sign saying, ‘I’m an Ass: Kick Me!’

    Christian Socialist

    PS: I’m not anti-political. Sin is political crime in God’s Kingdom.

  18. All fundies are politcally conservative, therefore all who hold politically conservative views MUST be fundies?

    Isn’t that the kind of warped logic that we criticize the fundies of using?

    I’m no fundy, but I am conservative in my political views, and quite frankly I have no problem with someone expressing their views using bumper stickers even if I disagree with their theology.

    1. FF – I think you are missing the point. Let’s say you were not conservative in your views but liberal. Do you think you would feel welcome in a church (where we are supposed to learn of and praise Jesus) that preached against the evils of liberalism? In a church where you were told that liberals are not welcome? And these things were not part of a civil discussion. No, they are yelled at you from the pulpit. Would you go back?

      1. Last I checked, Jesus was neither a Republican or a Democrat, so I obviously don’t think the pulpit is the place where political viewpoints should be expressed. That’s what car bumpers are for.

        If the pastor has his car plastered with bumper stickers that’s his right to do so. But just because he has his bumper plastered with stickers does not automatically mean he will use the pulpit to voice those opinions or make those who have different political viewpoints feel unwelcome. Once again, this is exactly what we criticize the fundies of doing, making assumptions and passing judgements just based on what they see on the outside.

        1. FF – I agree with most of what you said. However, a lot of fundy preachers (not all) do use the pulpit for their political rants, they do make liberals feel unwelcome.

          Does this guy do those things? I have no clue.

          But let’s not get too serious here. We are not judging this guy. How about answering Darrell’s question. Would you feel welcome if you were a Democrat? Would you go back if he preached against you JUST because your political view didn’t match up with his.

        2. Scorpio, you can’t answer the question just by looking at the guy’s bumper. If you feel threatened by somebody’s bumper then you have some more serious issues you need to deal with.

        3. If I hear this one more time…
          Ummm there were neither Republicans nor Democrats in Jesus time. Neither party has ever claimed Jesus’ membership. Can we eliminate that phrase eternally please? It’s simply a strawman

        4. FF – I do have issues :mrgreen:

          Let me answer the question Darrell posed although maybe I shouldn’t answer this because I am not a Democrat – I am much more left than that.

          Based on my previous experience in a church setting, I would not feel welcome in a church if I knew that the pastor had these bumper stickers on his vehicle.

        5. Scorpio: Really? You would consider what a person puts on the bumper of their car important enough to decide that what’s in their heart and what they might preach (since you’ve only been to the parking lot) is not biblically sound?

        6. That’s sounds exactly like: “If the pastor doesn’t wear a suit & tie, then I won’t go to that church”

        7. However, a lot of fundy preachers (not all) do use the pulpit for their political rants, they do make liberals feel unwelcome.

          Undoubtedly true. But I’ve known some aging-boomer Jesuits who looked and acted like refugees from a Peter, Paul, and Mary concert…one in particular who used to browbeat us with leftist propaganda from the pulpit. (Thank God our current pastor’s not like that at all!)

          What’s more, during my brief Episcopalian period (mid-’80s), I knew a Piskie rector who used to laud “Saint Marx” on All Saints Day. I am not making this up.

          It really does work both ways. I’m with Former Fundy on this one.

        8. To: Gate-Crasher. Are you familiar with the character Father Todd in Garrison Keillor’s Lake Wobegon Days?

          It was chilly the next night, and the night after that. Father Emil’s hay fever began to subside to two hankies per day. There had been no mention of the Feast Day of St. Francis in the bulletin, so Sister Arvonne asked him straight out if he wasn’t going to have the blessing of the animals. “Oh, I don’t know,” he said. “It’s so hard on the grass. They tear up the sod and then it freezes and you got hoofprints in the spring.”

          “If it’s your allergies you’re thinking about, we could get Father Todd,” she said.

          “Oh, it’s not the allergy, it’s the commotion. You know–” and he paused profoundly–“we have to think twice about providing ammunition to the unbeliever. What troubles me about the blessing of the animals is the circus aspect. People see this, they think, Well there go the Catholics. I think, Sister, we could bless animals without having them on the premises, same as the criminals or the lepers–you wouldn’t ship in a bunch of lepers so we could pray over them would you?” Meanwhile, he thought: Father Todd? Bring in Father Todd? The T-shirt priest? The last time he got talked into Father Todd was for an Easter sunrise vigil for Catholic youth, which the man presided over in a T-shirt! With a picture of Our Lord on water skis that said “He’s Up!” What would the man do on a St. Francis’s Feast Day? Probably wear antlers and talk about Our Brother the Buffalo.

        1. Disagreeing with someone’s bumper stickers = a violation of the freedom of speech?

          This makes me laugh.

          So much.

    1. If there’s such a person as someone ardent enough to plaster their cars with political bumper stickers and yet make someone of a different viewpoint feel comfortable around them, IDK who that is, and I’ve never met said theoretical person.

      1. I guess you never met me then. I have bumper stickers on my car and everyone knows where I stand politically. And I’m all for having lively discussions on the issues of the day. But just because someone doesn’t share my point of view doesn’t mean I can’t get along with them or make them feel uncomfortable. Some of my best friends are on completely opposite ends of the political spectrum, and we have some interesting conversations, but we keep it civil and friendly.

        1. Amen!! My friends are from all across the political spectrum. They know I’m pretty conservative. (OK, kinda soft on immigration but very, very pro-life, and I think Obama’s wrecking this country.)

          It is perfectly possible to be friends with people whose views you don’t share. It makes life more interesting. πŸ™‚

          And BTW, I come from a long line of Massachusetts liberals. My late mom was so far left she was off the map. My relatives think I’m nuts for voting GOP. But we all still love each other. πŸ˜€

      2. I’ve met plenty of them. You don’t tear off your bumper and drag it into church with you. And to be honest…so what? A pastor has as much right to having a political opinion as anyone else and to show it in the same fashion as others. I know plenty of folks who have bumper stickers on their cars and yet don;t engage that conversation unless it is brought to them first by the other party.
        I love SFL…but sometimes it’s a fishing expedition. This is one such time

  19. What baffles me is how these people that claim to be so moral, get so much of their political gospel from a drug addict who is on his fourth marriage.

    1. I could say the same thing about the talking heads on the left. Both on the left and the right, the talking heads are in it for one and only one thing…the money.

    2. are you baffled by your own harsh judgementalism of a man who has openly failed and also openly asked forgiveness and openly said how that failure made him more compassionate towards people he formerly judged. And remember also that this man never did make a claim to salvation or Faith in Jesus. Methinks you simply hate him because you hate what he stands for.

      1. This does show how many are so eager to forgive the people that they like. At the same time others would be condemned forever over stuff like this.

        1. Honest question–not trying to fan your flame: Did Bill Clinton ever publicly apologize? Maybe after he was impeached? I could understand legally not wanting to admit to anything before the vote, but maybe once it was done? I’d forgive him I guess, but I still disagree with his politics. Are we confusing forgiveness with having no strong political opinions?

      2. He is not compassionate. Sorry, but telling your listeners how compassionate you are is not the same thing as compassion. And simple’s point was a good one: if any man in any bona fide fundy church in the country engaged in similar lifestyle choices he would be ostracized out the door.

        1. I’m afraid your ostracized church man argument does not stand.

          Nobody listens to Limbaugh for his theology.

          By the same token, if John Piper (whose theology resonates with my understanding of the Bible) suddenly manifested liberal political views (insofar as they did not contradict the Bible) I would still eagerly buy his theology books and perhaps make a third pilgrimage to Minneapolis.

          True compassion requires truth telling. Ignoring a dangerous fault in favor of not kerfuffling feathers is not compassionate. As a father of four I can’t imagine parenting without understanding this.

        1. 3 Wives are OK…as long as they weren’t all wives at the same time….and of the opposite gender

  20. …and to be honest, most of the offensive and combative behavior I have experienced has come from those on the left.

      1. I know both sides do it…I’m just saying that in MY EXPERIENCE…most of it has come from people on the left. I can tolerate those who disagree with me…but usually those on the other side get raging mad, especially when I deconstruct their arguments. Those are the debates that end with “It’s George Bush’s fault and you’re a &$*#&$* racist!”

        1. I always find it fascinating how posts or threads that mention politics bring out the angry in everybody.

  21. You know…I like the witty repartee here. There are some very wise and intelligent folks on this site. But there is also an attitude that is pretty much the very thing some of you rail against. You decry the sin of Fundie-ism and all their laws and legalities and then condemn anyone not holding to YOUR particular version of the “real Gospel”. Some of you have become what you beheld. I find this “president” the most despicable excuse for an American I have ever seen hold public office at any level…REGARDLESS OF WHERE HE WAS BORN. (Lest you accuse me of being a “birther”) That in no way diminishes my position in Christ, the validity of my salvation, or the veracity of my Christ-likeness. Some of you hold the same blatant despise for those who disagree with you as the Fundies you rail against have for those who disagree with them.

    1. And I find my position in Christ, the validity of my salvation, or the veracity of my Christ-likeness completely un-affected by or un-hindered by who has been rightfully elected to the position of President of the United States. Amen?

        1. Can you please tell me how he is planning on eliminating my (or anyone’s) faith in Christ? How would he do that?

        2. Craig, the Bible forbids us from bearing false witness against our neighbor. That is not a fundy proof text. It says what it says. I have reached a point where I respectfully ask fellow believers to comply with that command when they are discussing the President or any other political figure they do not care for. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. I can respect anyone who dislikes or disagrees with President Obama. But I cannot respect anyone who spouts falsehoods about him.

        3. And, I would also add that President Obama professes faith in Christ. Thus, unless we have some good evidence to the contrary, which I do not believe we have, we are also slandering a fellow believer in Christ when we speak falsely about the President.

        4. Yeah, and he’s going to make everyone get gay married, too. πŸ™„

        5. That has to be an exaggeration/satire doesn’t it? No one can possibly think it’s possible for a person to set a policy to remove faith from all citizens?

        6. Josh – We have been having a rather civl discourse here and you have to ruin it by bringing TEH GAYZ into it. :mrgreen:

        7. Can you point to an explicit policy that is going to eliminate faith in Christ?

          No one is taking away your Bibles. No one is taking away your right to attend the church of your choice. No one is taking away your right to attend Bible study, to hold one in your home, to pray, to raise your children in your faith tradition, or to witness to others.

          It is not persecution if you don’t get your way. It is not persecution if someone says “I respect your right to speak, but I am under no obligation to listen.” It is not persecution if you are not allowed to disrupt the public peace. It is not persecution if you are not allowed to force others to conform to your morals and ethics. It is not persecution if others wish to have another or no faith tradition.

          No one is taking away your faith. Not the United Church of Christ member in the Oval Office, or his Roman Catholic Vice President, not anyone else on his staff. Saying so is a disservice, and is simply not true.

        8. Well let’s see…he has pulled his pants down and smacked his bum at the Catholic church on the issue of abortifacient drugs. He has forbidden soldiers and CHAPLAINS from sharing their faith in Christ. He has attacked the pro-life movement while daring to blaspheme by stating “God Bless Planned Parenthood”. he refuses to acknowledge any Christian holidays yet kisses every available Muslim rump on Ramadan. As for his profession of faith in Jesus…he NEVER professed any such faith. He danced around it and spouted a few niceties but never has he uttered anything near a Catechism, an actual confession, or even profess to know who Jesus actually is. He DOES however have a working knowledge of which bible verses to spew when trying to redefine poverty, healthcare, and when he wants to attack the wealthy. You can say what you want…his faith is fraudulent. Period. By their fruits you will recognize them. The only fruit he bears is deception, fraud, denying the sacraments, envy, greed. If you want to disagree with me politically fine…but to try to attach some vague film of “bearing false witness” is despicable. I’m too informed and intelligent for that.

        9. Craig, that was… wow. I cannot even begin to address that. Except to say that while you do appear to be intelligent, you have been grossly misinformed, and a number of your statements are simply not true. And frankly, I am appalled that you would make them.

          I’m willing to listen to an honest political opinion, but defamation is quite another thing, and I will not further engage you on the matter if that is your stance.

        10. Dear Craig Daliessio:

          I observe that apostleship was shared by Caesar’s bootlicking sycophant, Matthew, and Simon the Zealot, a revolutionary anarchist bent on liberating Judah from Rome’s oppression. I contend that you are sufficiently intelligent [as you say] to discern the hermeneutical import of this fact for present discussion.

          Christian Socialist

    2. I’ve noticed that, too. I think it may be an over-reaction to one’s former fundy extremism. Very understandable and fairly common, from what I’ve observed here in the Bible Belt. (Hope this doesn’t offend anyone.)

  22. Since this minister wants bumper stickers to proclaim his beliefs, where are the Christian bumper stickers? You know, the ones that say Jesus loves us?

      1. It becomes a question of priorities. It was important enough to this man to put anti-Obama stickers on his car, but not important enough to put any sort of pro-Christian message that I can see. I do think that speaks for itself.

  23. FUNDIES: “I wouldn’t go to that church because the pastor allows women to wear pants”

    NON-FUNDIE DEMOCRAT: “I won’t go to that church because the pastor has an anti-obama sticker on his car”

    Pot…meet the kettle

    1. Perhaps you are right. But it usually goes more like this:

      NON-FUNDY CHRISTIAN WHO IS A DEMOCRAT: “Wow. That pastor sure does hate Obama. I strongly disagree with him and think he is wrong. I think I will go to church elsewhere.”

      FUNDY PASTOR: “Wow. That car that just drove through our parking lot had a pro-Obama bumper sticker. Not surprised he didn’t park and come to church. He probably wasn’t even saved.”

      There is a big difference between saying you believe someone you disagree with is wrong and saying they are not a Christian. Fundies are MUCH more likely to be in the latter category. It is not acting like a fundy for me to say so. In fact, most hard-core fundies wouldn’t even find that accusation to be particularly offensive.

      1. Deacon’s Son: The fact that both people in your example are basing their decision on bumper sticker IS EXACTLY the point. Until you actually put you butt in a pew and LISTEN to what the person says from the pulpit, you really shouldn’t be making any judgements.

        1. You can go ahead and judge me now… If I see any of the following keywords on a church sign, I won’t give a second’s thought to visiting even once:

          Independent, Fundamental, Old-fashioned, God-honoring music, KJV, Old-time religion, Bible-believing.

          Some things are stereotypes for a reason.

        2. There is a difference between making the judgment, “I disagree” and making the judgment “you are not a fellow believer.” I realize that for fundies, those two judgments are all-too-frequently intertwined, but they are not in fact the same thing and most non-fundies recognize this. However, we tend to “judge” fundies partly because of their inability to draw this distinction.

        1. Nice try but you won’t intimidate me with your misuse of the over-used sophist “straw man” concept. You’ll only succeed in making yourself look ridiculous, as you have done with several of your comments today.

    2. I don’t think that comparing a dogmatic rule to a political expression is a reasonable stance. It’s not apples to oranges- it’s apples to motorcycles. They aren’t comparable.

  24. Who says that this pastor didn’t recently buy this truck and hasn’t had time to remove the bumper stickers? Anyone think of that?

    Can’t we all just get along?

    1. Everyone, let’s hold hands while Brother Scorpio leads us in a stanza of “Shall We Gather At the River”

        1. RobM, so long as the person didn’t use a Procter & Gamble product to wash hands, then you’re good.

          Also, only guys can hold hands with guys. Only wimminz can hold hands with wimminz. Otherwise you’re fornicating.

    1. I don’t think anyone is saying that. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that liberals and conservatives seem to define compassion very differently. It just happens that liberals tend to have a primary motivation of fixing problems (e.g., feeding the hungry) rather than letting them fix themselves (e.g., waiting for the economy supply the hungry person with a job). And in being thus proactive, they tend to feel that they are being more compassionate than the “wait and see” attitude that most conservatives have with its over-emphasis on personal instead of collective responsibility.

      (By the way, liberal left-winger is a bit redundant. They mean the same thing, so why use both synonyms other than to try to make them sound bad?)

      1. Your generalization of what conservatives believe and stand for is what’s wrong with this conversation. Liberals automatically assume because we believe in the free market and want government out of our lives as much as possible (I’m a conservative libertarian BTW…not a GOPer) that we want the less fortunate to starve. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just believe that the role of helping the less fortunate should fall on PEOPLE helping others (isn’t that what Jesus taught? 😯 what a concept!)….not the Government taking what we earned and handing it out to those who did not.

        1. Well, I also lean libertarian, and I certainly wasn’t judging you. However, I am more sympathetic to the liberal point of view than most conservative/libertarians. As I see it, people like us say “Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.” Liberals tend to accuse us of getting too bogged down in teaching a man to fish without giving a man fish. They say, “why can’t we do both?” I think there is something to that.

          As for transfer of wealth, I am a libertarian by preference but I happen to be believe that there is more Scriptural support for (at least some) socialist policies than we are willing to admit. After all, God COMMANDS transfer of wealth policies in passages such as Lev. 23:22: β€œAnd when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, nor shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God.” (I suppose you could argue that this is a duty imposed on an individual level, but the redistributive outcome is essentially the same.)

        2. In Leviticus, God commands those to not reap the corners of the field – it was there for those without to WORK and to GATHER IT FOR THEMSELVES. God did not tell the government to forcibly take the fruits of a man’s labor to give it to a needy person; He commanded the people to help one another.

        3. I knew someone was going to say that, GR, but HOW they got the food from someone else’s field is a separate issue from the fact that the landowners were COMMANDED to set aside some of their wealth for impoverished persons and immigrants. The reason why government steps in and facilitates these types of transfers is precisely because enough people don’t follow the Bible’s commands in this area on their own. And the Bible clearly teaches us that one purpose of government is to regulate a society’s propensity to sinful behavior. That would include the sin of selfishness.

        4. FF, if God’s people were stepping in as individuals, the picture would be very different. BUT THEY ARE NOT. At least, not enough of them are.

          And I have not seen anything left for the gleaners. The fields have not just been harvested, but stripped bare.

        5. FF, that was funny.

          First off, DS said “liberals TEND (emphasis added)”. That is not painting everyone the same shade of azure. You responded with “Your generalization of what conservatives believe and stand for is what’s wrong with this conversation. Liberals automatically assume because we believe in the free market and want government out of our lives as much as possible” and that IS a generalization.

          I’m surprised no one pointed it out before.

  25. “If you’re a Democrat would you go to a church where the pastor’s truck looks like this?”

    LOL!

    If I was a Democrat, I would not even be in Church. πŸ™„

  26. To be honest, this whole debate is ridiculous.

    People will go to the churches they want to go to based on what is said from the pulpit, not what’s stuck on the cars in the parking lot. I live in the northeast, and most of the churches in this area are very liberal in their theology, so I don’t attend any of them…and when I lived in the south I stayed away from the fundy nutcases for the same reason…their theology was wrong.

    Politics had nothing to do with it.

    1. Give me your hand FF. And on one, two, three….

      Shall we gather at the river,
      Where bright angel feet have trod,
      With its crystal tide forever
      Flowing by the throne of God?

      πŸ˜€

    2. If only that were true. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, politics and religion have become excessively intertwined in this country on both the left and the right. That is why one can, in fact, use one’s political believes as a proxy for guessing one’s religious beliefs, and vice versa. Perhaps the best example is a church like the Catholic church which tends to have membership from across the political spectrum. If you pull into a Catholic church and a bunch of cars have anti-Obama stickers, you can make a pretty good guess which “flavor” of Catholic theology (i.e., neo-conservatism) is being sponsored inside. Likewise for a Catholic church in which a bunch of cars have rainbow and coexist stickers.

  27. I could care less what bumper stickers he has,as long we check the political talk at the door. Even pastors are entitled to their own likes and dislikes politically or otherwise. I don’t need them to be neutral on every debatable issue, as long as they respect my opinions too.

    Now I know that isn’t going to happen in most fundy churches, but I can dream, can’t I?

  28. Most people I know in my personal lives are Democrat (my county is over 2:1 Democrat). Many attend churches with pastors who are outspoken in their Republican views. They aren’t so insecure or wrapped up in their political party that they can’t tolerate disagreement. Imagine that.

        1. I’m always shocked to see a Pitt fan. Usually you have to drive all the way into Pittsburgh to find one.

  29. Seeing the bumper stickers reminds me of why I quit attending church in 2007. I haven’t missed it yet. There was just too much intermingling political beliefs with the gospel. Regardless of where we come down on political issues, we should keep these beliefs out of church. Reading some of the more vituperative comments here is a good reminder why I left, as are the offensive photos.

  30. No, all bumper stickers are offensive and dumb no matter what they say. Screw everyone’s personal tracts that makes me read while I drive and then judge them.

  31. To answer Darrell’s question, yes, I’d go there. I’d wait to hear what was said from the pulpit and not make guesses based on a bumper sticker on a car.

    1. To be serious for a moment, I agree. Politics are not what is to be proclaimed from the pulpit. We are to pray for our Government no matter which party is in power that we might still have the freedom to proclaim the Gospel. On clear moral issues (the Law) found in Scripture, a Pastor is duty bound to proclaim God’s Word but it is Christ’s return that will establish a just Government without end, no political party will do it. We must remember this.
      We are to be good citizens and neighbors but we exist simultaneously in Two Kingdoms.

      1. “We are to pray for our Government no matter which party is in power that we might still have the freedom to proclaim the Gospel.”

        This, beensetfree, is the soundest theology I’ve heard so far! Why don’t we remind eachother to pray for these people? I wonder if prayer if offered up to the men and women in office in this church?

        1. In that church? I don’t know. In my church (Episcopal), the President is prayed for every Sunday (and other services too) no matter who he is or what he stands for.

        2. Well I consider myself LCMS so I probably wouldn’t go there. That is what is supposed to happen according to Scripture, Liutgard.

  32. To answer Darrell’s question, I’m not sure. Personally, I don’t like when politics gets mixed into the church. Even in my non-denom church, Prop 8, DOMA, abortion, etc. are regularly mentioned at length. Oh and the 2012 elections were a nightmare. I just kind of want to focus on Jesus Christ. But there are a lot of agendas, and not merely political ones, that get dragged into the church (and I mean the church as a whole).

    1. Let’s say that Issue A is a political football; it can also be a moral issue addressed in the Bible, so the fact that it’s tossed about on CNN doesn’t mean that it’s off limits in the church.

    2. We stopped going to a church when the pastor got too deep into politics. He was a prayer adviser to Bush then led the prayer at the 2008 Democrat National Convention and is a prayer adviser to Obama. I’d be okay with him being a presidential prayer adviser if he’d leave it in DC, but he brought it, and his views, into the church too many times. Like others have said, I would much rather focus on Jesus than the president.

  33. Maybe it’s because I’m English, but I’d be more worried by the pro-gun sticker in the window. Doesn’t seem to match the whole “turning the other cheek” thing.

    1. Yeah, my main reaction to the stickers is that if I don’t want to get shot, I won’t go to that pastor’s church.

      And I’m a Texan.

  34. As a UK resident I don’t have the same understanding of your politics but I wouldn’t like to have a pastor with this attitude to those he disagrees with. In my church experience I could take an informed guess as to how my church leaders voted but none have made blatant statements supporting one party.

  35. Thought-provoking photos, but since the dialogue is political, it all reads as “Blah, blah, blah, blah-bitty-frickin’-blah,” to me. πŸ˜€

  36. My dad said he never put bumper stickers on his vehicles because he just thought it was foolish to wear your heart on your sleeve. I saw the sense in that, so, other than the innocuous “jeep” decal (with dog paw prints in place of the two “Es”) on my wife’s jeep, we never used them. Hey, if you want to send a message, use Western Union, right?
    The best parody of “Christian Bumper Stickers” IMO, was on a Last Days Ministry tract put out by the late Keith Green. It showed a man, standing beside his car, which was adorned with many Fish bumper stickers, Rapture bumper stickers, and sundry Bible verse bumper stickers. He and his car were standing before St. Peter, at the pearly gates. The man was pointing to his car as proof of his testimony, and the caption had St. Peter saying, “Alright, (at least) your CAR can come in…”

  37. Some may not like it but freedom of speech protects all speech. This PC crap is the garbage. You may not like what the person is saying and I may not like it but they do have the freedom of saying it without fear of reprocussions. The pulpit is not excluded either. I would encourage you to look up the black robe regiment. “The politics don’t belon in the pulpit” saying is not true and a lie concocted by the left. I for one will be glad when socialist don’t control this country anymore. If you want that move to Europe. If you don’t agree and say something different than I said then you have the right to say you’re piece too. I’m not really a Republican either. They sold out. Rand Paul 2016!!!!! #constitutiononly

    1. I’m sure as heck not voting for someone with League of the South sympathies, either.

  38. Nobody is saying freedom at speech is the issue here, really. People can say anything they want, but we have a choice whether or not to associate with what people say.

    I’ve never really paid attention to political stickers on cars when I pull in a church parking lot. If you go into any evangelical church I’d expect to see the bumper stickers skewed toward the Republican side. But I’ve seen Obama stickers on cars in such churches. Overall, I think most people know what they’re getting into when they pull into a Baptist church parking lot.

    1. Of course anyone is free to put any sticker they want on their own car (short of explicit threats or libel). But it’s prudent to think about what message you are sending to the public when you do so.

  39. And no one was there to take a picture later that afternoon as the electrician finished his work installing some new lights in the church foyer on a Tuesday, packed his gear into his red Dodge pick up, and drove home.

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