160 thoughts on “Jack Hyles: Gangster”

  1. Nothing like “Truth in Advertising.”
    That is the interesting part of this, The House of Hyles and the Hammond Mafia tips their hat to their secular counterparts in broad daylight and people eat it up.

    1. Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your home on the wedding day of your daughter. May their first child be a masculine child

  2. So, in order for the target audience to understand the message, they are relying on them having seen unapproved/secular movies?

    (Which of course seem to be a trend that still holds if some recent movie-trailer plagiarism posts are to go by…)

    1. That’s a recurring trope. None of the faithful are supposed to watch these movies and TV shows, yet everyone is supposed to get the references to those movies and TV shows.

      It’s as if you preached a sermon completely in French about how it’s a sin to learn French.

    1. Yes, someone should have copy-edited this thing.
      It says not to wear pants, and doesn’t say to wear anything else instead.

      If the pants prohibition includes underpants, I hope the kids will bring towels to sit on.

  3. How ironic, a MoG a gangster. There are a lot of similarities. Both gangster and MoGs love to have things to hold over people to ensure guilt and a sense of entrapment.

    1. A real MOG is equal parts Popette and Mafia Don. I could write a thesis about the shared traits. The funny thing is that the mob guys I know genuinely care much more for children than any MOG I ever met.

  4. No one younger than a 7th grader is invited, which would naturally include infants. So when they go on to say that they won’t “watcher babies,” are they suggesting that youth who have babies of their own would be welcome at the conference? ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  5. This would be cute as heck if it came from another source. And not “whatchu gonna do”, it’s “whadayagonnado aboud it”, but I’m nitpicking.

    1. Yeah, it’s neither Jersey nor Chicago done correctly. Go ahead and nitpick – if they’re going to imitate people, why not get it right?
      Of course, I’m still boggling over the mindset that makes this even a little appropriate.

    2. I’m still trying to figure out why they spelled “attcha” with two “t”s.

      And isn’t it odd that Fundy Baptists used an “O” in the headline that has an embedded yin-yang symbol?

  6. If you don’t tithe gid will come and bust your kneecaps. At least that is what I always heard. I was taught that if you didn’t pay your tithe bad things would happen to you. It certainly makes God sound like a gangster. Your tithe is made to sound like protection money.

    1. busted knee caps
      your car will break down
      you will lose your job
      your refrigerator will die

      cause “Cause God will take his tithe one way or another”

      Yup, they make giving sound like buying protection. What a perversion of God’s Word!

      1. “Your kid will die.”

        Don’t tell me no one else ever heard that one. My miscarriages were a judgment from God. No one ever told me WHY God was aborting my babies, but apparently I was committing some pretty heinous sins that were worthy of Him smiting my children. Oddly enough, the people I knew who really WERE committing some heinous sins (child abuse and in one instance the rape of a mentally disabled woman) seemed to be getting some kind of a free pass from God. Their kids lived.

        (I feel wrong writing that down, but the anger and hurt still rankle today.)

        1. Wow. I don’t have any words after reading that. I am so sorry that people said those things. I can understand why you still feel hurt. The people who said those things are wrong.

        2. What a terrible thing to tell someone. Polecat, I am so sorry to hear you had to endure such intentional cruelty after having suffered so much pain.

        3. Sorry to hear about your troubles; it is a terrible experience to go through (we’ve been through it), and there is a lot of “why” and soul-searching; my wife felt like some kind of a failure.

          The last thing we needed was some kind of jerk trying to determine why it happened. That was just like salt in a raw wound.

          We learned to trust that God is always good, even though we don’t know the “why”. We thank Him for bringing out of that very dark valley… and I have much sympathy for you, Madam Polecat.

        4. PP, I’m so sorry about your miscarriages. ๐Ÿ™ There’s something wrong and sad about telling anybody such a terrible thing at such a tragic time; what do such people think they’re proving? Hope you finally have been able to have children (or found something equally fulfilling).

        5. That’s just awful that people said such things.

          If someone gets knocked down by a truck, there are some people who rush to help them up, but other people run up to kick the prostrate person in the ribs.

        6. Thanks for your kindness.

          They used David and Bathsheba as proof that God killed babies. I knew at the time they were full of it, but at the same time, when you’ve just lost your fifth pregnancy, you really DO start thinking there’s something horribly wrong with you or that maybe the ladies are right and God IS punishing you.

          Yes, I finally had three children. My boys are truly miracles, the brilliant sun after the long, dark night. They’re very cool little people, and I feel honored to be their mom.

    1. The hypocrisy is maddening. But what it comes down to is the way nearly everything in the world is run: the underlings follow the rules while the guys in charge do whatever they want. And THAT is worldly, especially since Jesus specifically said, ”
      24And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers.25But Jesus called them to Himself and said, โ€œYou know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.โ€ (Mt. 20:24-28)

    2. To quote my favorite teacher of grace, “there’s no consistency in legalism.” Through this man the Lord taught me the difference between the old and the new covenant — for starters. Until then, the Christian life was a list of dos and don’ts.

    3. We won’t mention a certain “pirate” that is very popular in fundie circles either.
      “BE SEPERATE! BE SEPERATE! (But it’s ok to revere this musician and his music as the best thing since sliced bread) Just turn a blind eye to the bad example associated with his character of a pirate!”

  7. I don’t remember ever seeing mobsters wearing stripey ties. ๐Ÿ˜† And I wouldn’t send my kids to a conference where THAT guy might be packing.

    1. I don’t think I’ve seen any Cosa Nostra mobsters in person (in the papers, they seem to wear sweatsuits and gold chains most of the time), but I’ve seen some gangsters of the Bloods/Crips/Latin Kings/MS 13 ilk. Needless to say, they don’t dress at all like the cast of “The Untouchables.”

    2. This was the same year that John Gotti was finally found guilty. Since Gotti was known as the Dapper Don, I think you can see what inspired their dress. That being said, Gotti wore custom-made Brioni suits (about $6k/each in 1992) while these clowns are wearing thrift store rejects. It reminds me of young children playing dress up in their parents’ closets.

        1. Scorpio,

          Would I ever let you down? The thing has been put to bed…permanently. I am always happy to do a favor for a friend. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          Bro Bluto

        2. Mea culpa. I thought you were talking about the first thing, but apparently you were referencing the second thing. Being as the first thing is put to bed permanently, there’s not much that can be done. With regards to the second thing, I would hate to make the same mistake. Call the pay phone in front of Tony Luke’s (the one on Oregon Ave)…I’m down here having a chicken cutlet with sharp provolone and broccoli rabe.

      1. After Robert Sumner’s article appeared in 1989, Jack Hyles went into big-time cover-up mode… but Robert Sumner’s article encouraged others to come forward and other books were published and people began to talk.

        I did some checking; it wasn’t at any youth conference, but at a Hyles-Anderson chapel that they had a skit in which Vic Nischik, Robert Sumner, and Voyle Glover were “gunned down” by Mafia look-alikes.

    1. Gunning down critics? Let’s face it, we’ve all had that fantasy. The comment puts me in mind of that Brady Bunch episode where Bobby’s hero, Jesse James (yes you read that right, it makes sense in context) starts blasting away the rest of the Bradys. ๐Ÿ˜Ž ๐Ÿ˜ˆ It’s ghastly, but there’s some part of you that just can’t resist watching.

  8. I feel like someone told them the kids were interested in gangstas and they didn’t actually know what that means. It was 1992, after all. You can’t expect fundies to get a cultural reference until it’s been mainstream for at least 15 years and everyone else mostly ignores it now.

  9. Pastor = The Don
    Deacon = Underboss
    Usher = Consigliere
    Bus Captain = Capo
    Evangelists = Hitmen
    Tithe = Protection Money
    Faith Promise = Vig (juice)

    Feel free to add.

        1. In “The Godfather,” “going to the matresses” means going to war.

          I have no idea if that’s part of legitimate Mafioso jargon or not.

    1. Pastor’s Secretary = Cumare (especially in Hyles’ case)
      Bible College = Prison (known as “away at school”)
      Pastors School = Commission Meeting
      Counseling Session = Sitdown
      Church membership = Being Made

  10. In my book, “A Coveted Servitude,” the bad guy is a mega-church pastor whose ministry I describe as a “ministerial mafia with him as the Don.” All this was before I began learning about ministries staffed with criminals, predators, and abusers. This flyer inadvertently affirms the characterization of a ministerial mafia with Jack Hyles as the Don. Fiction, not surprisingly, mirrors reality.

  11. A man who received a Bachelor of Theology from HAC writes the following summary of education there (many here have said the same about their respective schools):


    Bro. Hyles has no respect for Education. As is obvious to all ‘Sword’ readers, he disdains ‘Bach,
    Beethoven and Brahms’ in music, and emphasizes haircuts over History and Hermeneutics, not to
    mention any other academic discipline. Both my wife and I were truly disappointed with the level
    of academics at the college. Other graduates have agreed with us, not bitter ones either; good
    honest, godly Christians who thought they were spending their hard earned money and valuable
    time to get training that they now know was a sham. The secular subjects, such as History,
    English, Science and Mathematics are all on the high school level at best. Much of the Faculty
    are alumni of the college and have little more educational attainment than their students…
    The Greek curriculum consists of using an interlinear Greek New Testament, an
    Analytical Concordance, and learning a few tenses. Their entire program is the equivalent of less
    than one month of seminary level Greek within a three-year program.

  12. Ah yes, hostility in tone and content, always a sign of the love o’ Jesus. And I am so happy Jack is in his eternal reward. I remind myself that his judge is also his redeemer. I trust God to save HAC and its legacy–and that of FBCH–from the soiling of these folks. ๐Ÿ˜›

      1. Ambiguous? No. Paradoxical? Yes. That is the nature of grace. Was Hyles an ass, and are Lapina, Schaap, et al. asses, yes. but grace is still at work. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

        1. Grace is still at work – people can leave FBCH. They can heal. They can get an education elsewhere. They can learn and grow and learn to live in the beautiful world outside of fundamentalism.

          Doesn’t mean the grace is going to be felt within FBCH.

  13. Isnt this is exactly what one would expect from a man made religious soft cult lead by a megalomaniac? If they really believed in an almighty deity that demanded “high standards” of “holiness” then this is not. This is more proof that fundamentalists are making it all up.

  14. Perhaps if the Lord were here He would identify Hyles and leaders like him and their churches as “whited sepulchers full of dead men’s bones” and ones who produce those who are “two-fold the children of hell” by their traditions.

      1. Uh, no. It’s spiritual abusers, rapists, serial adulterers that we resist. Not the Holy Spirit.

        Check your eyes. Or, better yet, have someone else check them for you, because you have something stuck in there that prevents you from seeing.

        1. MSK, nothing is stuck in my eye regarding this, it is you people who are resisting the Spirit by condemning any attempt to save souls.

        2. Dave, you are a blithering idiot.

          You ignore the obvious because you don’t WANT to see it.

          Go play in the traffic or something. If you can’t engage honestly in conversation, then don’t waste our time.

        3. We are condemning the hypocrisy of a pastor who wanted girls to wear skirts because pants were worldly yet saw no problem in pretending to be criminals and hitmen.

          As for condemning attempts to save souls, the IFB churches I was in did that ALL the time: condemning Billy Graham, CCM music, and basically anything that wasn’t IFB. If saving souls was TRULY all that mattered, why would they do that?

        4. MSK, now we resort to name calling (Mt. 5:22). All I am saying you people sit here and make all these stupid accusations and name calling and your smug, holier-than-thou statements instead of praying for these who offend you. Who appointed you to be the judge and jury ?
          You claim that everything that fundamentalists do is wrong, yet I have never once seen anyone offer up what they think is right.
          Please tell me what it is that you people do believe (if anything other than yourselves).

        5. NOW we’re getting somewhere.

          So, you’re allowed to come on here and throw around ridiculous accusations, but we aren’t allowed to call you out for it? “Who made us judge and jury?” Nobody. We don’t need to be. I have college classmates (IFB preacher boys) who are in prison today because a judge and jury decided that their sexual behavior made them worthy to be a long-term guests of the Government. We are agreeing with the judge and jury (and the Bible) that these are wolves tearing at the flock.

          “Shut up,” you explained at one point. Come on, man. You want us to be sweetness and light? Show us how it’s done. Again, “physician, heal thyself!”

          “O wad some Power the giftie gie us
          To see oursels as ithers see us!”

          You ask, “What did the Indy Fundies do right?”

          We’ve actually had this conversation before.

          1. Bible memorization. This was, and continues to be, a fantastic benefit.

          2. Music. We sang lots and lots. We learned how to sing parts. We learned to just open our throats and sing. Back then, the music was joyful and boisterous and of high quality. Unfortunately, it isn’t this way anymore (because too many people are too busy making rules that kill the joy), which is one of the indicators that the movement is dying.

          3. Community. Back then, we loved each other, and we spent as much time together as possible. Maybe familiarity eventually bred contempt, or maybe the wolves in sheep’s clothing became more evident to us as they destroyed our friends without mercy. I just know that IFB churches, in which I grew up, are no longer home to me. And it’s not because I abandoned the Faith.

          “Smug, holier-than-thou statements?” Are you kidding me? We are crying out against evil behavior (documented evil behavior; not baseless accusations) by those who have been smug and holier-than-thou even as they committed their crimes.
          What makes you think we didn’t (and don’t) pray for these people? That we haven’t approached them to try to make things right? That we didn’t get hit upside the head with a plank for our troubles, and now we are using the only tool left to us?

          Instead of making accusations in ignorance, maybe you should ask questions first? Hmmm?

          “Please tell me what it is that you people do believe (if anything other than yourselves).”

          Well, that’s a complicated question. Based on what I have read here, the vast majority of us used to believe just like the Indy Fundies, down to the finest details. But as we grew older and started to actually read the Bible for ourselves, looking to confirm what we had been taught for decades, we started to notice a major problem: the Fundamentalists spent precious little time teaching the actual fundamentals of the Faith, and inordinate amounts of time on “doubtful disputations.” When we started asking questions, we got attacked, excommunicated, and shunned. Some of us have abandoned Christianity altogether as a result of the abusive treatment we suffered at the hands of the “church.” Most of us are still Christian.

          Speaking for myself, I believe in one Triune God who created Man for His own glory, and for fellowship. I believe that Adam (not Eve, who was deceived) followed Satan’s rebellion, thereby imparting a sin nature to all his children. I believe that God immediately demonstrated that blood must be shed for covering of sins, signifying the Redeemer who would come. God continued to act graciously toward rebellious Man until finally sending the Redeemer in fulfilment of prophecy. The Redeemer, who was born of a woman but not of a man, and therefore born without the sin nature, fulfilled all the types of the sacrifice, blood being shed to cover sin. He died, was buried, and rose again on the third day, thereby conquering Sin and its natural consequence, Death. This victory not only broke down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile, but also tore down the veil of separation between God and Man and allowed us to have full fellowship again as it was in the beginning. Jesus calls all men to repentance, and applies His blood to all those who come to him for salvation. When He left the earth, the Holy Spirit came as our comforter and guide. We are to occupy our time by living godly lives (doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with our God); loving and edifying other believers by rebuking, exhorting, and encouraging them in biblical truth rather than making extrabiblical rules and then requiring others to submit to our rules; loving the people around us; sharing the gospel as we have opportunity (using words when necessary).

  15. I wonder how many young men were called to preach at that Youth Conference? How many are pastoring today soul-winning churches and how many people are going to heaven because of it? Oh, well no matter, you wouldn’t care about that.

        1. Also, just in case you haven’t read the scriptures, Jesus saves, not FBCH, Pastor’s school or anyone associated with those monstrosities.

        2. Robbie, Tim never said it was First Baptist Church who saves. Don’t put words in his mouth oh, Master of Delusion.

        3. Maybe you are implying his English skills aren’t very good, but he did say exactly that.

          How many are pastoring today soul-winning churches and how many people are going to heaven because of it?

        4. BTW, if you’d ever been catechized in a Catholic or Presbyterian church/school you would know the answer to who saves people by memory, they don’t teach you that “soul winning churches” do, IFB does that.

        5. Rob, I have never been catechized in ANY church, I catechized myself (is that a pronoun ?) with only God’s word since I was 6 years old. Don’t tell me what or how one becomes saved. It certainly would not be from what Catholicism teaches regarding salvation, thank you very much.
          You just go on making your snide little remarks and we’ll all just keep on chuckling at them and how wise and spiritual you are and how earth is a much better place with you in it.

    1. how many people are going to heaven because of it?

      Answer: none

      If there are any whose life was touched with the Gospel by anyone who attended this conference, of those, if any go to heaven it will not be because of Jack Hyles or this conference. In spite of Jack Hyles and without regard to this, or any, conference the only way anyone will go to heaven is by Grace through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work, not of works lest any man should boast.

      soul-winning churches
      What is this? what does it mean? Who wins the souls? Winning them for what, the inflated numbers? Where in scripture are believers commissioned to go “soul-winning?”

      *sigh* more man worship at the altar of Hyles. ๐Ÿ˜ฅ ๐Ÿ™

      We might just as well ask: I wonder how many of those Calledโ„ข to preach at this conference have committed abuse in their pulpits like Jack did? How many of them have a hidden door to their secretary’s office? How may of them are running a cult and controlling the lives of the members of their congregation? Oh, well no matter, you wouldn’t care about that.

      1. At the risk of being unoriginal, I repeat:

        Neither Hyles nor any of his minions, nor his Sinner’s Prayer, nor any other magic formula, nor his “Soul Winning,” nor his Pastor’s School, nor his Youth Conference, nor any of the rest of his dog and pony show has ever saved anyone, nor has Hyles ever gotten anyone into heaven.

        Only God’s infinite mercy can save anyone from sin and death. Hyles cannot, nor can I, nor can any other mortal human.

        1. Oh Gary, that sounded so theologically eloquent,so un-fundamentalist, but at the risk of sounding accurate, whoever said that Hyles or any of his pony show (to coin a phrase) has ever saved anyone ?
          Talk about pontificating on the obvious. Deep, Deep Gary.

        2. Who said it? Hyles and most of his followers and allies, and Tim implied it in the comment above.

        3. Gary, Gary, Gary, Hyles NEVER claimed to save anybody. You know that is not true. And Tim did NOT imply anything of the sort. He said how many people are going to heaven because of “it”. Neuter, not a person. He was claiming that Christ used the Youth Conference to save souls. Intellectual honesty Gary, something I have yet to see by any of you SFLers.

        4. Dave,

          You just nailed the whole problem. Tim claimed that people were going to heaven because of it (neuter), not a person.

          Exactly our complaint!

          You go on to put words in Tim’s mouth about Jesus being involved, and then you have the nerve to criticize the intellectual honesty of SFLers.

          Physician, heal thyself!

          This is the whole problem. “It” is Hyle’s conferences, to which Tim is giving the credit for salvation. NOBODY is going to heaven because of “it” (neuter), but because of Him (masculine, Jesus Christ). It would be nice if Hyles defenders would acknowledge that simple truth, rather than giving credit to the efforts of their idol.

          Hyles stayed in my house for a week. We had a wonderful time. I saw his love for play-acting. Problem is, those who love play-acting sometimes lose track of which is the play-acting, and which is the real life.

          I heard Hyles preach MANY times. It was lots of talk about how he was doing this and doing that for God, and how we needed to do this and that for God, too. I remember very little Bible in those sermons.

        5. I’m beginning to see the problem with English is Dave’s in not understanding how to diagram & understand the meaning of a sentence structure.

        6. Dave,

          You cannot be that naรฏve. Hyles wrote a series of books (Favorite Soulwinning Experiences, etc) which were nothing but self-aggrandizing (and totally fictional) stories of how he (Hyles) was responsible for the salvation of people.

          And, FYI, I attended two Youth Conferences in the early 80s and they were nothing more than equal parts Hyles ego-stroke and HAC sales pitch.

          Bro Bluto

        7. Oh and Rob (Mister Grammar) is it really: “you got anything with pronoun” Oh and P.S. Shut up

        1. But do you UNDERSTAND her comment?

          Not based on your other statements, you don’t. Because if you did, you wouldn’t be defending the indefensible.

          I went to these conferences. I saw how they DEMANDED worship of Jack Hyles.

    1. I quoted it for you above, other people have quoted it for you above. Here it is again. Please note the “it” refers to the church doing the “saving people to heaven”, and not Jesus or any part of the Godhead.

      How many are pastoring today soul-winning churches and how many people are going to heaven because of it?

      .

      1. It can also refer to pastors school or youth conference there, but there’s no way to properly read/diagram that sentence where it refers to anything but a human being or institution that is saving souls instead of God.

  16. Just so I’m clear…

    If I’m a guy that brings teens to FBCH, the girls in my youth group are to take off their pants, and I’m personally responsible for checking them all?

    You can’t say Schaap wasn’t following the rules…

  17. I really wish I could’ve been at Jack Hyles’ funeral to celebrate the demise of this twisted, decrepit charlatan. If there is a hell, surely he must be there. He truly gave fundies a bad name even though they didn’t need any help with that. A truly vile human being.

  18. I think we should stop feeding trolls.

    He has said he doesn’t want the truth. If he ever truly does want to know what we are he will come in quietly, look around with open eyes and mind, and not belittle the shopkeeper. Part of me wants to respond to his latest comments, but sometimes the better part of valor is to let people go. You can’t force people to see anything they don’t want to see.

    We ex-fundies know who we are and what we’re about. He is free to believe what he wants (even if it’s the same bondage we were under).

    1. Semp, I want to thank you for the name calling, it was special.
      Also, I just want to say that any of my belittling was in response only when I saw belittling by any of you.
      And one last thing, I am not in bondage to anything.
      Take care

      1. Is it really fair to cry “ad hominem” after you’ve spent several days posting comments that strain credulity looking for outrage, and making wild accusations? You have the right to complain about being called a “blithering idiot”, I’m not sure I can see that you can complain about being called troll.

        1. The wild accusations came from you SBFers, I only asked for proof of those accustions. Look back and take a look. And the only other thing I did was react to you people belittling others, e.g. Tim, Looking For Jesus, Mrs. Hamilton…
          Also, it took numerous days to finally get an answer when I asked for proof and to what it is that SFL stands for, and only MSK came close.
          I used sarcasm in rebuttal to the sarcasm I saw.
          I only wanted to see some accountability for many of your statements I’ve seen on this site. Simple as that.

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