132 thoughts on ““I””

    1. Dear Jason:

      Wonderful! Thank you for this secular take on the Heidelberger, LD 1!

      Christian Socialist

      PS: ‘The chief end of man is to glorify himself and live a carnal life forever!’ :mrgreen:

    1. I do not like the use of “I am” at the end either. 😐 But, it does remind me of something I saw recently – “There is no I in TEAM” – There is. It’s in the A-holes.” 😎 It doesn’t work with this font, but the one I was looking at, it worked perfectly.

      The ignorance about the “i” standing for internet just astounds me. 😕

  1. Too bad Schaap won’t dress up like Elmer Fud and descend from the rafters, polishing the shaft telling kids it’s a sin to work at Burger King.

    1. Friend, you have GOT to stop eating all that pizza before you go to bed. As it is, you’re getting a bill for all my necessary brain bleach. 😛 😆

    1. Well said Polished!
      They’re whole promo is contradictory because after making the point that we’re too focused on “I” they call for youth to still be focused on “I” just for “spiritual” uses…iCan, iSacrifice. I laughed out loud it was so obvious. And tragic. Darrel got it right with his comment on on silly it is to try to solve selfishness with legalism.

  2. They are always trying to change the world or do some momentous things at these conferences. The world should have been changed several times over by now.

    1. Make no mistake. This is all about discouraging kids from following their dreams and doing what they are gifted and passionate about. If you seek the desires of your heart, you are selfish and not serving God. One can only serve God if he/she commits to full time Christian service and is trained in an IFB unaccredited bible college, earning a degree that is useless outside (an oft inside) fundyland. These youth conferences are designed to be recruitment camps for the bible college, not in the best interest of the child.

      1. Put it another way: you are not serving GAWD unless you have no joy in what you’re doing. The only exceptions are for those men (and ONLY men) who are personally recruited by their 😈 Man-O-gid HIMSELF.

      2. You are 100% correct. How many fundy youths have had their dreams stolen and lives wrecked via this line of “spirituality”? Combine this with the earlier Consequences post (where God is going to get you if you step out of line) and you have a pretty miserable existence.

        1. Reminds me of a Christian School Fair I attended at Sawdust Trail University.

          I had married my sweetheart after my sophomore year. Now as a graduating senior, I was looking for a job.

          There were lots of positions open! But the salaries were horrid! There was lots of “this is a ministry” talk, and “ministry requires sacrifice!”

          So I got a hold of the book for managing Christian Schools written by James W. Deuink, Ed.D. Deuink recommended that Christian school teachers be paid half the salary of the Preacher. So if the Preacher sacrifices for the ministry, the teachers sacrifice twice as much.

          The salaries being offered at that time weren’t even that, I’d bet. Not enough to pay rent. AND they would require my wife work half-time as a contribution (unpaid, slave labor). Plus the requirements to attend every meeting of the church, do all outreaches, tithe, grade papers, prepare for classes, monitor extracurricular activities.

          That put me off “Christian Education” forever. I went to grad school with the idea of doing something in the public school system.

    2. Thinking of Judas Iscariot and his false concern for giving… It looks like loving others, but in the end it’s just for thirty pieces of silver.

  3. iEmpire: one of the featured speakers has been spending the last 10 years building an empire for himself. Currently his sheeple are adding a wing to the church they recently built. The “building fund” has been on-going for probably 5 years now. To top it off the Mog is building a new home for himself in an exclusive neighborhood. I’m told the model in the housing plan is listed at $390,000. Very few of his sheeple could even dream of owning a home at that price, but are asked to “step out in faith” and give, give, give. I guess he agree to speak at the conference because he can’t turn down the possibility of a generous love offering given his hefty mortgage. ❗ He won’t even admit to graduating from HAC on his website or resume.

    On another note: why would anyone send their kids to a FBCH youth conference? They certainly have not proven themselves to be worthy of caring for and teaching children.

    1. This. I find it hard to believe that they are going ahead with a Youth Conference this year with all that has happened. If nothing else, let’s pull back, reground a rethink. I certainly would not want to send my kids there, even if I still thought that they were a mecca.

      1. I agree! So pompous of them to think they have something to offer the rest of the IFB world right now! Sure they fired Schaap (had to), but they still have not renounced the heresies he taught from the pulpit for 11 years, have they?

    1. Yest and they try to bait you into going to HAC. If you tell them you’re going to another IFB school they frown on you. If you tell them you’re “Taking my talents down to Pensacola” you get berated by the guest speaker in the nights service (atleast during the days of Hyles.)

    2. I’ve got to say that promo is slick. The Twitter conceit doesn’t quite work in the end, but it’s clever marketing.

      I added an update (a quote from the Chicago Tribune) about Schaap’s 12-year sentence to the comments on YouTube under the promo video. If you like, you can click a “thumbs up” for my comment.

    3. I notice in that video they used a Facebook/Twitter metaphor. So lame. 🙄

      Will churches and pastors please stop thinking that just because they use Twitter or Facebook that they’re trendy, hip, and down with the kids?

      1. @John Is Awake.

        Are you for real?? That is anal retentive.

        I come from a military family. When the military tells you to move, you move. You get transferred every two to three years, more if your family member in another branch of the service. You don’t get a say in when and where you move.

  4. Forgive me Lord for being thorough in my search for a reliable automobile, and giving thought towards affordable places to live in this difficult economy. I promise I’ll never stray towards such sinful and selfish thoughts again.

        1. I like this kid! She has excellent insight into what makes an occupant of the pulpit dangerous, and into the relative roles of the preacher and the congregation. She’d do a good job as a member of the clergy somewhere–far better than the parade of obnoxious preacher-boys we’re treated to now and then on this site.

      1. This girl epitomizes the Amy Grant “Find A Way” in every way, shape, and form. Remember as Fundies, Larry Brown and Jack Hyles called Amy Grant a Harlot and CCM music is a sin but the girl in this video just reminds me too much of the Amy Grant song “Find A Way”

  5. If you explore their online registration you will see several opportunities for healthy competition but what you do not see is any sports categories for the girls! Boys only for sporting events and of course, preaching competitions clearly stated are for males only!

    It’s a chauvinistic world! There would be no harm in girls athletics or for that matter a speech category for both genders because after all, women are a strong force in the church! Youth Conference is supposed to be preparing both girls and guys, right?

    Marlene Evans spoke publicly, Carol Frye, Cindy Schaap, Loretta – the new head of Christian Womanhood?! In fact, the wives of pastors are frequently performing behind a pulpit in one form of speech or another!

    Come on now, all you leaders of this iConference… as you move into this technological world, dabbling and taking from the world’s fruit (iTunes, iPhone, iPod, etc.) to entice the youth to taste of your own, you best be prepared to offer up equal portions and opportunities to both genders, otherwise its just another feeble attempt with the biggest bang being the fireworks over the pond there at HAC and a few days of organized chaos rendering you with a few followers who are weak-minded and eager to be led around by the proverbial ring in their noses, mindless and inadequately able to think for themselves… much like the ones who followed jack hyles and jack schaap, enabling them to become the ultimate –“iDs”– at all costs!

    RiDiCULOUS!

    ~~~Heart 😈

    1. Heart,

      I’m afraid FBCH is still holding fast to the male/female standards and gender roles of their Idol-Hyles’ IFBism. What you’re asking is wicked, dangerous, compromising, liberal, worldly, etc. etc. etc….don’t be too surprised to see nothing’s changed!

      1. Been There,

        Yeah… Isn’t that the truth!

        I drove through the HAC campus yesterday just for the heck of it and I saw two gals, well ladies, who I recognized from attending school back from 79-82. I suspect that they are on staff now because of their yielded malleable ways back then… I could have sworn they were wearing the same clothes, you know, the Fundamental Frumpy long jean skirts with white bobby socks and colored tights, not to mention not last year’s runway coat fashion styles but rather, from two decades past. In contrast, which is my point of the elevation of the male and his importance, was a quite debonairely attired gentleman who’s suit was well inline with today’s fashion trends but then again he was headed toward a $30,000 car, quite the fish out of water, left me wondering.

        Nevertheless, it’s wrong to stifle any great mind or talent or zest to succeed just because you are not a man! While in the Fundy world, I remember having to “dumb down” so as to allow a man to feel he was the more intelligent. Preposterous!

        How thankful I am to have been blessed with a husband that is my partner rather than a man who has me following him in servitude!

        And yeah, by the Fundamentalist’s definition, we are worldly, sinful, and all those things you mentioned! LOL But we are good, healthy, blessed and free to live out our dreams unencumbered with ridiculous rules! God is good!

        ~~~Heart 😎

  6. I can’t veiw video but reading comments…I think when “GoD” said, “I AM”,it was a question, “I AM?”. And then GoD (He,She,We,It,They), said (in one voice=Universe)WHY IS THERE NOTHING HERE!?!? HA!:)

  7. Now remember children, don’t talk during Brother Jack’s sermon or get up and go to the bathroom ’cause he’ll put you on the spot in front if everybody and threaten you. Remember its not about you but about iBrother iJack.

  8. And you are bad! Bad! Bad, bad YOU! How dare you claim that you were born as yourself, and not everyone else! How dare you function within the existential reality to which you are inexorably bound. How dare you don’t make mutual exclusivity the focus of your (oops…their, er, our…uh…) life!

    Bad you! Stop owning stuff, dammit!

      1. All of Christian fundamentalism can be boiled down to this idea: you don’t own yourself. The only good you can do is forfeit the entirety of your being to the collective. The church. The leadership. The authority. Your greatest sin is your very existence. Thus, the only true good you can do is to function as if you have no claim to anything YOU. That is why so many fundies are tyrants. It is no sin to forcefully compel those who have no inherent right to declare abuse. Indeed, abuse, or pain, is the plumb line for “truth”. The more you are suffering, the better a Christian you are.

        1. The reason your statement piqued my curiosity is that there is a concerted effort to bring fascism (the historical definition) into the church. I’m not talking about a dark conspiracy, it’s well documented. I know more about the seeker-driven and emergent church aspect of the topic than the fundie aspect. If you get a chance you should check out a lecture by Chris Rosebrough titled Resistance Is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated Into the Community.

        2. Karen, do you mean right now, or in the past?
          I am aware of pro-fascist religious leaders of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, but had not heard of any now (outside of Identity Christianity and that ilk).

        3. Big Gary, I think it is clear that IX Marks, for example, is peddling fascist rhetoric. In fact, a large swath of (usually Calvinistic) “conservative” Baptist and baptistic churches are actively promoting fascism.

        4. Interesting, Dr. F. and Karen D. Can you recommend any good reading about this (the fascist rhetoric aspect of it)?

        5. Big Gary, to answer your question; this is a present day movement but it’s roots go back to the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s and beyond. I had not heard of the Christian Identity movement and looked it up. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you’re thinking of fascism in the modern pejorative sense. Which is basically racism or any other form of intolerance that society deems unacceptable. What we’re talking about is this movement within Christianity to make us all collectivists. That you as an individual don’t exist only the ___ (state, church, etc.) exists because you’ll eventually die but the ___ will live on. This line of thinking goes back as far as Rousseau (early-mid 1700’s).

    1. I picked up on a lot of that. I was sinful so if I wanted to do something, that desire was probably my sinful flesh. In order to be spiritual, I had to kill the old man and thus do the OPPOSITE of what I wanted to do.

      If it’s fun, it’s wrong. If you’re attracted to it, it’s wrong. If it makes you want to dance, it’s wrong.

      The good thing was, I eventually figured out that my thinking that way was wrong! I needed to test the spirits to see if they were from God. My inclinations MIGHT be wrong or they might be God-given to help direct me. Always choosing the option I hated most revealed what I thought about God – that He was harsh and concerned with beating me into shape more than loving me.

      1. I believe there is a loop hole though. IF the thing I want to do agrees with what they want me to do, THEN what I want to do surely is the right thing to do.

      2. Pastor’s Wife,

        I completely felt that God was always peering down on me in disapproval even when I was giving my all!

        It was a miserable existence!

        ~~~Heart 🙁

        1. He is God. Our Great Redeemer. And in His gospel, we find that we’re not the main subject… He is. Yet within this truth’s equation is me and you.
          Some, in an attempt at piety, will preach from the pulpit, messages that squash the idea that “you” matter. That if you love to paint, and you bleed, your love for painting must be a fleshly sin. This ignores the Power of God. That His Spirit (Who agrees with his Word and that Jesus is the Son of God) can He can actually give me the ability to be joyful… Which, just might make you want to dance. Even if in trial, or suffering for His Name’s sake, He can give us the ability to be joyful… Which, just might make you want to cry.
          Like it or not “you” count.

        2. I guess what I still don’t know is how far I should go to be happy. As a Christ-follower, I won’t go against what the Bible clearly says. But how long do I keep staying at a church or in a job just to be faithful? When do I cut my losses and leave? The message from my past seems to be that you stay and suffer because it’s good for you to deny yourself and do what you don’t like; it builds character.

          I know that into each life some rain must fall, but must I purposefully choose to go out and stand in the rain without an umbrella just to prove how long-suffering I am?

        3. Alice in Fundyland,

          No! Don’t even get an umbrella and suffer a little, get out of the rain (unbiblical church, wrong job, etc.) and head for cover! Godly wisdom and His direction will show you when, where and how, and all for His Glory!

    2. And exactly. If God made someone with certain tastes or talents, and that he should be encouraged to do what it takes to develop them, it should be a simple conclusion that to develop and use those gifts is more glorifying to God than being forced into something (most likely a ministry) that he isn’t good at. These men have never shaved with Occam’s Raxor.

    3. That’s a good point Molly.

      One possible interpretation of the verse “God gives you the desires of your heart” is that, say, you have a burning desire to knit scarves for orphaned elephants, it may be that God gave you that drive and in fact wants you to knit scarves for orphaned elephants (just to use a silly example).

  9. This reminds me of being a teenager and being scolded for using the word “I” to describe my day. To my mother I was being prideful and self-centered. She has since apologized for that conversation, but I still remember the hurt of not being able to talk to my mother because she had the IFB way of thinking so instilled within her that somehow she felt listening to her daughter’s day was something wrong. This conference topic will only hit at those teenage girls with low esteem and make them feel even lower. They will feel that they are unimportant. They will struggle with their hopes and dreams because a voice inside them will tell them that it’s wrong, they’re selfish, how dare they want to be successful, important or even educated. I know, I was one of them. This is sad on so many levels and I hurt for those stuck in the IFB life.

    1. People laughed at then-Senator Dole for doing the same thing, but he had the same training as a child–and all those years later, he couldn’t shake it. 🙁

    2. To the person who said her mother said using the word “I” to describe her day was selfish…

      Telling people that they don’t matter, they should never talk about themselves, that their needs or feelings don’t matter, or that other people’s needs are more important, or that you getting your own needs met is selfish, is all known as codependency. Churches are bad about depicting codependency as a virtue – it is not, the Bible actually discourages it.

      Females are socialized even more heavily to be codependent (passive, overly compliant, selfless, to lack boundaries, to not say ‘no’ to people, etc,) way more than males are, and in secular culture too, not just within Christianity.

      (Please see my other post about this at the bottom of the page.)

    1. Steven Anderson is no better than Schaap or Hyles but Anderson posted a video spoof of HAC with soundbytes of Schaap’s non-sense. Quite funny actually.

  10. So, who wants to clue in these clowns that the “i” in iPhone, iTouch, etc. doesn’t stand for “first person singular,” but stands for “internet?”

    Their ignorance tends to cloud their message.

    1. But these jerks would still get the money from the sales. 😡 No, what you want to do is then give the tickets to every other group in town, esp atheistic ones, and maybe the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the American Nazi Party, the Hell’s Angels, or even just distribute them to the homeless and say there’ll be free pizza and donuts, so everyone’s invited! 😈
      That should make things interesting.

  11. iDIOTS.
    My dad packed up our family of 7 one year and drove across the midwest to attend one of hyles youth conferences. I was the oldest and i was maybe 12. Because we were constantly at church services at least 3 times a week at home; taking a trip to go to church several times a day seems extremely redundant. I remember only 3 things: 1. Before the service all the kids would throw paper airplanes off of the balcony and one got stuck in a chandelier. 2. A lame skit. 3. Jack Hyles berating a woman from the pulpit because she had brought an infant in the auditorium and it was crying while he was trying to preach. Even as an indoctrinated child this did not seem proper to me.

  12. Also, during the last few years of Schaap’s tenure he publicly stated all preacher boys had to preach in gay bars in order to graduate from HAC. The video was taken down from YouTube by FBC but another video contains a Schaap “Meme” and a soundbyte of Schaap ordering boys to preach in gay bars. This video is on YouTube under the name “Schaap Bar Preaching on TBN”.

  13. I note that the Second Commandment is “to love your neighbor as yourself.”

    It is reasonable then, that God expects that you love yourself. If you do not love yourself, then you will be unable to love others as well.

    Can the “I” be as bad as fundies make it out to be if that knowledge of self is created by God? Or is the reason that fundies have become so hateful to others is they have mastered the art of self-loathing (while thinking that makes them closer to God)?

  14. I’m a little confused by their “i” video.

    They seem to be saying a Christian needs to be focused on Christ alone… but…

    One thing Christ did was to meet the practical, every day needs of people (such as feeding them bread and fish, healing them, etc).

    Christ and Paul instructed (and/or role modeled) believers not only to take care of their own needs, but to help other people.

    When Christ was exhausted, he took breaks. He would go off and pray to God alone, and at one point, when he was tired, he took a nap in the front of a boat.

    There’s nothing intrinsically wrong or selfish about getting one’s own needs met, and the Bible tells us also that one way of serving God is to help other people get their needs met.

    I wish Christians would stop advocating codependency as being biblical, something to strive for, or a lofty goal.

    That, or focusing on ‘Jesus alone,’ as if to mean just sit around reading a Bible all day – because part of focusing on Jesus is to focus on self and others.

  15. Oh, yes. The “I” should not exist heresy.

    Not to mention, of course, the passages where Christ gives rewards and recognition, where God gives each person his own new name, or that God is interested in us personally.

    No, but according to IFB psychology, the “I” must become nothing that “Christ” may become everything. Or, in this case, the preacher behind the pulpit. If “I” must not exist, then “I” cannot question what “I” am being told.

    Another tool for total control, with the hope of eventual world domination. After all, Jesus will come, kill His enemies, dance in their blood, set up His Kingdom, rule with a rod of iron, and best of all, put His Faithful IFB followers in positions of AUTHORITY around the world to Enforce His Will.

    And they are practicing to get a running start!

    Jesus said that the second commandment, the one as important as “Love the Lord your God” is to “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If there is no “I” there, no self-love or self-recognition, then there will be no love to my neighbors, as I will not even love myself. I don’t think that is what God wanted or how Jesus interpreted.

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