160 thoughts on “Proof-Texting The Election For Fun and Profit”

  1. My personal favorite is Ecclesiastes 10:2, “A wise man’s heart is at his right hand; but a fool’s heart at his left.” Which, as we all know, is a reference to the modern American concept of the Right and the Left. Solomon was really up-to-date on not-yet-in-existence politics.

    1. But of course the concept of ‘left’ and ‘right’ as regards politics isn’t Biblical. And it’s not American. It’s _French_. From Wiki:

      The political terms Left and Right were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[5] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime. Use of the term “Left” became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the “Independents”.[6]

      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics)

      And of course if you were speaking in heraldic terms, left is right and right is left, as I found out after I made my sweetie a banner, having read the blazon and then having him explain that it was backwards, because of the way heraldry works. (I couldn’t redo it, but I could take the loops off, turn it over, and attach them to what had been the bottom. It worked.)

      1. That’s what makes it the all-time great proof text. Most people realize that the Bible verse isn’t talking about politics (and certainly not about our left-right construct). It’s just our little joke. Our little laugh-inducer. But sure as shooting, you’ll find some knucklehead out there who will preach it like it’s the absolute God’s own truth for today, Hay-men?

    1. I almost posted a resounding “YES I AGREE” to this, but then it occurred to me that on NPR, at least, (my main source of news) there has been this sort of hipster, hyper-detached, let’s-talk-about-anything-BUT-the-election vibe for weeks. Today, it’s on, but yesterday they spent my 20 minute drive home from work dithering over whether it’s offensive to people on the autism spectrum for Ann Coulter to use the word “retarded” in her speeches. I was like – I’d love some election news!!! Please!!!

      But yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment as to every other news outlet!

        1. OMG. Look at all the stuff the TEA party was called?

          How about the vulgar term TEAbagger?

          Disgusting. This administration is the biggest hoax every perpetrated on the American people.

  2. Let me guess, most of you will be voting for Obama, but only relucantly? You think he’s too right and just too conservative, but he’s the lesser of the evils?

    1. I’m from Northern Ireland so i know how politics and religon can become inextricably linked. Personally, if I were American, I WOULD vote for O’Bama – as the lesser of the two weevils.

        1. I’m rather fond of what a friend of mine quoted at another site:

          Cthulhu–when you’re tired of voting for the LESSER of two evils.

        1. I think the last dude is ruining our (Canada’s) average. Dear God, I cannot believe we re-elected Stephen Harper . . .

      1. I WANTED to vote for Gary Johnson, but I live in Oklahoma where the Supreme Court denied him a spot on the ballot and where we also are not allowed to write-in candidates. So . . . Oklahoma can stop tooting its horn about being a “populist” state as far as I am concerned. Ballot access here sucks!!

        1. Personally I feel that it has been the right wing that has sought to divide us. Rather than work with a new President to stabilize a tottering economy, they met the very day of the inauguration and swore to do everything in their power to take him down. Not sure O even had a key to the men’s room yet.

          There’s a saying in SCA circles around here- “Give honor to the Crown, even if the man under it is a schmuck.”

          And in similar sentiment I offer: Romans 13:1-7. You can look it up for yourselves.

        2. Luit-

          Obama didn’t even include the Republicans in the Obamacare debates.

          And Joe Biden called the TEA party terrorists.

          Romney just won the Democrat stronghold of WV b/c of Obama’s war on coal woohoo!!

  3. I think the all-time greatest political proof text is Ecclesiates 10:2…

    “A wise man’s heart turns him toward his right hand, but a fool’s heart toward his left.”

  4. Well as for me and my house…
    I don’t always proof-text, but when I do I like a verse with the word “pisseth” in it. And thus is my prayer for the Rooney-Rule president:
    2 Kings 9:8
    For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel:
    Israel here being a metaphor for Amerrcuh

    1. Wait . . . the name Barak is in your BIBLE?? You must have a modern liberal translation. I didn’t know they had changed God’s word to have MUSLIM names!!!!! I thought nothing in the modern per-versions could shock me anymore, but I am truly speechless!!! Please, please return to God’s true word that doesn’t have Islums in it!!!

      1. I should have added after my quotation – KJV… or AV if you’re so inclined.

        Sorry to shock you πŸ˜‰

        Don’t worry, you’re humour isn’t lost on me πŸ™‚

  5. I’m Canadian, soooo NOT voting today. But very, very anxious and uneasy to know the outcome. Unfortunately, too much of what happens across the border affects us in too many ways!

      1. James and I have talked off and on about immigrating- my Dad was born in Canada, and apparently that gives me some rights. However, there’s no way under heaven that I could pass the medical exam. I’m currently on disability and with chronic asthma and cardiac problems (atrial fibrillation and two silent MIs- and I’m only 48) and if the health care bill is repealed…

        All three of my kids have benefited by the healthcare bill. So will my granddaughters. Personally I think it didn’t go far enough (I’m in favor of single-payer) but it’s better than what we had.

        1. It’s pretty darned obvious that the health-care systems that work around the world are single-payer, national systems. We could simply make Medicare cover everyone, and everyone would be more or less happy (how many seniors do you know who want Medicare to end or be privatized or whatever?). But neither Obama nor the majority of Congress has the courage to stand up to the insurance lobbies and do that.

      2. That’s the first reason I AM voting for Romney.

        Obamacare should be repealed.

        Single payer system suck and Canadians come to America if they can afford it because our systems are much more advanced and the wait isn’t as long. Mayo Clinic where my sister went is utilized by Canadians all the time.

        The wait for surgeries and simple things like CT scans and MRIs are a lot longer in Canada and England.

        With 23 million people without work, all Obama did was pass Obamacare.

        And he lied about Libya and IF he gets in again, Obama should be impeached and some other heads should roll including Hillary Clinton

        My rights come from God, not government and it makes no sense to go from the cradle to gave religion of the IFB and then go vote for the cradle to grave Socialism that is the Obama regime.

        1. I am English and although the National Health Service has its flaws, I would be terrified if it wasn’t there.

        2. Jo, my dad’s family are all in Canada, and they say the same thing- even the ones out in the hinterlands in Manitoba. (Not much there but wheat.) Elective thing have to wait, yes. But preventative care is outstanding, and when my Uncle Ed had a massive heart attack while visiting family in another province, there were no delays for anything because of insurance paperwork.

        3. That’s a bunch of false hype from the insurance lobby. The number of Canadians coming to the U.S. specifically for medical treatment (as opposed to Canadians who just happen to be here for some other reason) is negligible. More commonly, Canadians who reside in the U.S. go home to Canada when they need surgery or other expensive medical treatment. There are many Canadians who spend winters here in the Rio Grande Valley, and whenever I ask Canadians if they’d like to repeal their “socialized medicine,” they laugh themselves silly. They readily talk about problems with the Canadian system, but they are close enough to the U.S. to see the alternative.

        4. I find it very hard to understand why anyone would be against a National Health service unless they have a vested interest in making money out of people’s illnesses. I fear that our current government plans to privatise it. My mother who is not especially progressive, remembered the time before it was introduced and was always grateful for it.

        1. Actually, it’s understated.
          Every country in the world that even pretends to call itself civilized has universal, comprehensive national health care. The USA is the only exception.

        2. And there is a reason for that Gary. We have been smart enough not to give in to the liberal big spending democrats like you.

      1. I heard a lot of flack, not only from the right mad at Warren for agreeing to pray, but also from the left mad at Obama for asking Warren.

        So tired of the hate. Just because we don’t all agree doesn’t make us less American or less valuable in the political process.

        1. Thank you, PW. In the end, we’ll all have to live together, no matter who occupies the White House. In election years, it’s easy to forget that.

  6. Did you all see the news story yesterday about the number of churches that violated the IRS directive not to endorse candidates? Second biggest group, after non-denom, was BAPTIST/Southern Baptist. And almost all used this illegal act to endorse Romney. It says something about the modern apostate church that nearly 2,000 pastors thought it was okay to break the law in order to endorse the “lipservice to conservative Christians” candidate.

    1. Actually they were protesting the Johnson Act which is in fact unconstitutional and the IRS knows it. The IRS has NEVER…not ONCE allowed any case of violation to go to trial because they know this rule is illegal and will not with stand scrutiny. The Sunday in question was a protest against an illegal ruling that limits EVERYTHING a pastor says…not just politics. You would do well to gather your facts before engaging your mouth.
      As for Romney…while not my ideal candidate, you need only a basic working knowledge of God and His attributes to know where HE stands on the issues that truly matter and therefore where YOU should stand on them. IN that scenario, given the choices we DO have in this election, the decision is as good as made.
      I love this site and most folks who come here, but I am finding it increasingly becoming that which it beheld by some of the regulars exhibiting the same misguided fervency in their revolt against all things “Fundie”. Some of the points made have become non-points not counterpoints. This IS a serious election and thats not a “Fundie” matter but a serious political truth.

      1. Dear Craig,

        The law is not unconstitutional. If you believe that it is, then the burden is on you to demonstrate to me that it is before accusing me of running my mouth without gathering facts.

        Furthermore, it is blatantly inaccurate to say that the law limits everything a pastor says about politics. That is simply wrong. The law simply conditions the grant of 501(c)(3) status on not endorsing political candidates. That is all.

        According to your line of reasoning, churches should not be granted 501(c)(3) status at all because that is an unconstitutional establishment of religion.

        1. I agree with you that the law is not unconstitutional; however, I think that churches should not be exempt from paying taxes. Frankly, I don’t understand why they’re currently exempt.

        2. I also agree that churches should not be tax exempt. I was assuming, however, that Craig would not agree!

        3. Deacon’s Son…again without the facts.
          Churches have automatic tax exempt status whether they file a 501c3 paper or not. It’s the 501c3 paper that the IRS keep threatening. in 60 years since this law came into existence it has never been adjudicated. Every time a church is threatened they are offered a settlement and the frightened parishioners take the deal. The Johnson Act violates a Pastor’s free speech rights…period. What the IRS counts on is churches not being able to afford to lawyer up. The point of this mass movement a couple of weeks ago was to create a deluge of potential cases and force the IRS to either demonstrate that (a) they were serious about this law and (because of) (b) this law is constitutional.
          No government agency can regulate speech with the exception of the FCC and that only on the basis of vulgarity. A pastor should be as free to express himself on the topics during the exercise of his employment as anyone else is. You don’t know your facts, chief. And that chip on your shoulder is preventing you from accepting the facts laid out for you

        4. Craig,

          You did not do what I asked, which was to demonstrate that the law is unconstitutional. All you did was state that you disagree with it and then throw around some faux-legal language and random constitutional clauses.

          Your argument, such as it is, is illogical. You suggest that because churches are automatically tax exempt (true enough) that the rules that apply to tax exempt organizations don’t apply to them. That argument is flat wrong. For example, let’s say we had a system where truck drivers are automatically granted a driver’s license. That wouldn’t mean that the rules of the road don’t apply to truck drivers. Similarly, the fact that churches don’t have to undergo 501(c)(3) certification, doesn’t mean that the rules for tax exempt status don’t apply to churches.

          Whether the IRS has enforced this law has no relevance to its constitutionality whatsoever. There are lots of laws that go unenforced, particularly by overworked administrative agencies like the IRS. That is not “proof” that they are unconstitutional.

          It is saddening to see how your blind passion for this issue has led you to such heights of arrogance. It was not necessary to insult me or my intelligence in order to attempt to prove your point. I am a licensed attorney who focused on tax law in law school and I think I understand the Internal Revenue Code at least as well as you presume to do. Perhaps becoming truly informed about this issue yourself will allow you to speak with more intelligence and more humility next time.

      2. I wholeheartedly agree. The LBJ Law is in fact unconstitutional and it violates the 1st amendment freedom of speech and religion.

        Our pulpits were used during the movement for independence and the Revolutionary War. Many champlains even served in the militia.

        Pastors on the right and left have the right to say from their pulpits who they think their congregation should vote for.

        That law LBJ rammed through Congress should be repealed.

        1. I respectfully disagree. (Thanks for disagreeing without being disagreeable!) I think if this law is so horribly unconstitutional, someone should be able to explain why instead of merely parroting clauses from the First Amendment without any context. The lack of a solid legal argument here truly baffles me. Perhaps the restriction on candidate endorsements by churches isn’t such a horridly unamerican thing after all?

        2. It’s really simple, we either believe in freedom of speech, or we don’t. I do. The government doesn’t have the right to shut pastors up.

          Pastors had freedom of speech from the pulpit for almost two hundreds years and then LBJ gets mad and passes a law that “infringes on freedom of speech.”

          We need to get back to the Founding Documents and repeal laws such as this one that take away freedom of speech in the pulpit.

    2. Christianity Today published this item about why the IRS isn’t more active in pursuing these matters.

      http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/october-web-only/why-irs-has-stopped-auditing-churches-even-one-that-calls-p.html?utm_source=ctdirect-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=9444526&utm_content=140497194&utm_campaign=2012

      My thought is that people who contribute (donate, tithe, whatever) to churches and religious organizations should not be allowed to claim the charitable deduction if the organization will not complete Form 990 and disclose the same information that secular non-profits are required to disclose.

      “Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.” (2 Corinthians 8:21)

      How’s that for proof-texting?

    3. One of the things most of us perhaps don’t think about, having spent most of our lives in extremely conservative, pro-Republican IFB churches, is the deep involvement of African-American churches in politics, probably all pro-Democrat.

      Driving to work tonight, I heard an ad on the radio in which a pastor and a bishop introduced themselves and stated their support for Senator So-and-So: “President Obama needs her support in Washington, and you need to vote the straight Democrat ticket here,” one said. “Thank you, Bishop,” said the Senator. “Republicans think that long lines and long ballots will keep you from voting. Prove them wrong.” I was very annoyed by that ad.

      Fair is fair. If we want the IRS to go after conservative churches, they have to go after liberal churches too, and I cannot even imagine the accusations of harassment and racism that that would cause.

      1. Well, to me there’s a difference between that, and saying it from teh pulpit, as a representative of the church.

        The clergy in my parish are VERY careful what they say in an official capacity. Our priest told me that she doesn’t put political stickers on her car, to avoid appearing to endorse. And we pray for our leaders- all of our leaders, regardless of party.

        1. If they weren’t representing their church, why did they identify themselves as a pastor and bishop? And do you really think they don’t say anything political from their pulpits?

        2. I should clarify that both men were from Protestant denominations, though I don’t recall if the specific churches were mentioned at the beginning of the ad. The bishop is not a Catholic bishop!

        3. I think there is a very real similarity b/t the damage the IFB does and black liberation theology does to people. There is a lot of phobia and bigotry in both churches.

          And I agree pw, but the government won’t prosecute for fear of being called “racist” which is so overused by the left it no longer has any meaning now.

  7. I work at a Christian university (not fundy) and I’ve had it up to here with Romney being shoved down the student’s throats and mine. In my opinion, we should teach people how to think so they can reason out for themselves who the best candidate is. If Obama is really the devil incarnate, then anyone whom you’ve properly educated from a Christian perspective should be able to detect that without you coercing them.
    I personally hope Obama gets elected because I have a serious medical condition and I’m dependent on one of Obama’s healthcare policies right now–it’s what’s preventing me and my husband from being totally bankrupt. But I’m not voting, simply because I’ve been so overly pressured to vote. This is my private way of saying “let me think for myself.”

    1. Excommunicated,
      While I certainly sympathize with your plight I would gladly help you voluntarily…I should not be forced. What’s personally best for YOU should not be elevated above whats best for the country

        1. Craig,

          You stated that you should not be FORCED to help pay for care for sick people. I assume you would assert that it is BEST for you not to be forced to do so. However, in the next sentence you imply that not being FORCED to help pay for others’ care is what is best for the country.

          In short, you argue that what is best for you (not being forced to pay for care) is what is best for the country. In so arguing, you make the same error that you accuse EFF of making.

          The problem is that you have not demonstrated that not being forced to pay for care is in fact what is best for the country.

      1. Obamacare isn’t health care, it’s death rationing.

        And it is taking funds from Medicare and the baby boomer and the seasoned citizens are pissed off b/c of that.

        It would be better to have torte reform and allow Insurance companies to sell across the states lines and that will lower the cost of health insurance.

        1. I sold insurance (and originated mortgages and sold series 7) for a Very Large insurance company. And, I’m afraid your idea just won’t work. Medical insurance is not high because of medical malpractice (the nationally recognized litmus for malpractice is “standard of care”), nor lack of competition. Medical insurance is high because insurance companies keep most of the money. That is why despite the worst recession since the great depression insurance companies made record profits last year. The idea that tort reform and competition could lower costs is make believe – there is no math to back it up. Also, the insurance industry is most closely modeled in economics by a Cournot Oligopoly, which indicates that neither of the solutions you mention could ever work.

    2. “But I’m not voting, simply because I’ve been so overly pressured to vote.”

      Huh? How is THAT smart? Vote for those who will continue expanded access to health care. Don’t let bullies intimidate you out of voting.

      1. you’re right BG . . . it’s my passive-aggressive response to the hype around me. Voting non-republican, in direct opposition of my upbringing and present surroundings, is a big personal step that for some freakish reason, I’m hesitant to take. Maybe I’m capable of passive resistance but not quite ready for active. Maybe I’d feel like an even bigger hypocrite when I pay the public lipservice to Romney which my job requires. I guess I’m very conflicted internally about it.

  8. understood . . . I guess the only good thing I know about Romney is that he’s not Obama, which doesn’t convince me that he’s better for the country. However, I purposely haven’t been following the campaigns privately because when I get home from work each day I’m already tired of hearing the conservative propaganda about it. Not that I’m not conservative . . . but anytime I sense that I’m being manipulated by hype, pressure, endless repetition to do something (in this case, vote for Romney) I back away. Too reminiscent of fundydom for me.

        1. Obama should be impeached for his lies about Libya gate IF he gets in.

          My kids have more debt thanks for Obama.

        2. What lies? Obama told no lies about Libya. I’m tired of hearing people like Paul Ryan tell the lie that Obama lied.

      1. another source of conflict for me. I’m obviously against abortion, which makes it hard for me to actually vote for someone who’d legalize it–although I know full well that it would happen anyway, legalized or not.

        1. There is no such thing as a safe abortion.

          I guess we should repeal ALL laws, since people are just going to break them anyway, right?

        2. There’s more than one person involved, Craig.

          My roommate lost an aunt, back in the 50s, after an abortion. Her husband had just run off with another woman when she found out she was pregnant. She already had three children and she was already in dire straits. She managed to find someone to do an abortion, a doctor who was moonlighting. It was a slapdash affair with no aftercare. The woman died three days later of sepsis. The children ended up in foster homes.

          That’s the sort of thing that happened, and would happen again.

          I don’t like abortions. I wish they didn’t happen. But when a woman is in a position that she feels that is one of her options, that is a decision I cannot make for her.

  9. look, I’m definitely not an Obama fan–I think he’s bungled the budget and been dishonest. That’s one reason I find it hard to vote either way.
    on the other hand, Romney’s election would cause a near-immediate health and financial crisis for me. That makes it difficult for me to completely jump on the Romney bus with all my heart–my self-preservation instinct is still alive and well. Call it what you will-selfish, perhaps? I’ll admit to that.
    My main complaint was that I resent the intense pro-Romney hype that I face every single day. If the choice is that obvious, why pressure people? People will usually pick the obviously better choice on their own, without coercion.

    1. Pro-Romney hype? I’m the opposite: a conservative surrounded by Democrats in a very blue state. Even my facebook page is full of pro-Obama hype, most of which I can deal with but some of which raises my hackles!

  10. EFF I don’t want to sound heartless here. If anyone understands your plight I do. I spent 3 1/2 years sleeping in my car because I lost my whole life when the mortgage industry collapsed. If it helps…it is unlikely that the revisions that prevent pre-existing conditions from counting against you will be removed even if Obama loses. Those parts already became law. They’ll probably stay. If the economy recovers you’ll have a better financial situation from which to take care of yourself. And I firmly believe the American people are far more generous voluntarily than the government an ever force them to be.

    1. Craig,

      If the American people were so generous, as you presume them to be, then there wouldn’t have been a need for Obamacare in the first place. (Or, for that matter, any other government medical care program or welfare program.) We can argue about costs, rationing, and other policymaking issues all day long but it doesn’t change the FACT that people in this country DON’T help each other out as much as they should. That is precisely why there is the “democratic” part of America being a “democratic republic.” One of the functions of our government, by design, is to counterbalance the self-interest of the few with the good of the many. Now, the fact that there are problems with that model has been recognized since Aristotle wrote his Politics, but the fact remains that is the model that we have, at least in part. The genius of the American system is that we have found effective ways to temper the ability of the majority to tyrannize over the minority. However, there has to be balance on BOTH sides.

        1. “it doesn’t change the FACT that people in this country DON’T help each other out as much as they should.” Again where are your statistics?
          And a real lawyer would know we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democratic Republic. That was civics in 6th grade I think.

        2. Oh for heaven’s sake. The constitution is what MAKES us a democratic republic because it dictates that we have a representative government that is democratically elected. Read two Federalist Papers and try again in the morning. A lot of the problems in this country stem from people like you who are smugly confident in their civics “knowledge” but unfortunately are dead wrong. You are entitled to your own opinions, sir, but not your own facts.

        3. I don’t know where you went to sixth grade, Craig, but there’s no difference in the meanings of “democratic” and “republican” (when used as adjectives to describe a form of government, not as the names of political parties). Look them up in any three good dictionaries. I did when a student asked me what the difference was between a democracy and a republic, and I could find no clear and consistent difference in meaning.

          Since then, I like to say that I am a democrat with a small “d” and a republican with a small “r.”

        1. That is only because:

          (1) Romney is wealthier than Obama and
          (2) Romney gives loads of money to the Mormon church.

          I daresay Obama has given more to charity than either you or I.

        2. Romney gives a lot to charity only if you consider the racist, sexist, homophobic, deeply secretive Latter Day Saints cult to be a charity.

    1. Craig,

      I read the article and the underlying “scholarship.” The article relies entirely on the same faulty logic that you were using in your posts. Namely, the article finds a constitutional violation where there is none. Conditioning a special tax status on complying with certain regulations does not violate the First Amendment. Rather, any pastor may say whatever he or she likes, but the pastor should do so knowing that certain tax consequences may follow.

      This is no different than the speech regulations that are regularly imposed on public employees, such as teachers. No one is taking away any public employee’s First Amendment rights by force. However, continued employment is conditioned on complying with certain policies.

  11. one of my (uber-conservative) Facebook friends posted a heartbreaking real-life story not long ago. A homeless man in CA came up to her to ask for money. After she gave him $1, he showed her all these foreign coins people had given him and told her he couldn’t spend them. He didn’t understand why people would give him money that didn’t spend. He suspected they just wanted to get rid of him without giving him real money.
    A beautiful tribute to American generosity. I can’t wait to rely on private charity to buy my insulin and the whole slew of everything else that keeps me alive.

    1. yeah, that’s what happens when you rely on disorganized public charity–you end up with huge discrepancies and disparities. Sorry, but the bus lady didn’t need a million dollars. There are plenty of people who are slowly dying for want of adequate medical care for chronic conditions.The bus lady really didn’t need money at all, but she managed to gain attention and arouse sympathy. When you rely on people to contribute spontaneously, you end up leaning on sob tactics, media, emotional appeals. Funds should be distributed in a logical and appropriate way to those who need them the most–not to those who cry the loudest (or for whom other people cry).

      1. Oh, my goodness. I have worked for the federal government for 20 years. If you think that the government distributes funds in a logical and appropriate way to those who need them the most–not to those who cry the loudest (or for whom other people cry), then I have some extremely disappointing news for you.

  12. I try to keep something small in my car- granola bars and such, for my midday sugar crashes, and to hand to the guys at the end of the offramp, with a bottle of water if I have one. It’s what Jesus told me to do, so I do it.

  13. “With 23 million people without work, all Obama did was pass Obamacare.”

    Also false. Obama enacted scores of economic stimulus measures, as well as extending unemployment benefits and providing tax cuts to working families. Unemployment went down every year Obama has been in office, and the stock market has doubled in value. A crash as bad as the one Bush caused doesn’t get reversed overnight. And Obama has been able to do a lot less since Republicans gained control of Congress in 2010 and devoted themselves full-time to blocking everything Obama tried to do (not my assessment, that’s Speaker of the House John Boehner’s public boast). But we’ve now dug ourselves most of the way out of the pit Bush/Cheney left us in.

    1. Actually the only thing that went down was the people looking for jobs. Everyone quit. He speaks of creating 5 million jobs…do you know anyone who got one of them? Me either. You forget my story…I felt the plague of Barack Obama for four long years.

      1. Wrong, there are more jobs in absolute numbers now than in 2008 or in 2009.
        And manufacturing jobs within the U.S. have gone up for the first time in more than a generation.
        Stop getting all your data from Faux News.

        1. 23 million people without work and real unemployment is 15%.

          This economy is worse than Carter and Obama has broken his promise not to add to the US debt.

          The economy was a whole helluva lot better under Bush than Obama.

          Perhaps you should stop getting your news from PMSNBC.

          Romney is sweeping and Obama only has 3 electoral votes!

        2. My husband and I lost our Real Estate business in 2008 and Obama has made this part of the economy worse with Dodd/Frank bill.

          Banks will not loan money b/c of all of the red tape from this admin.

          Romney 49 and Obama 3. I feel a landslide bigger than 2010 coming on!!!

        3. 2008 was before Obama was in office. Surely you can’t blame him that an artificially-inflated real estate bubble burst while Bush was still President.

        4. “Romney is sweeping and Obama only has 3 electoral votes!”

          Would you care to update that vote count now? πŸ˜‰

    2. *yawns.

      “It’s Bush’s fault” is blame shifting and quite frankly a bunch of bullshit BigLiberalGary.

      47 million people on Foodstamps makes Obama the best food stamp president ever!!!

      1. ObamaWelfareCare is what this country has become. the people who love Obama say he is helping the poor, but he really isn’t. He is only endorsing laziness and reliance on Welfare.

        1. Food stamp use doubled in teh four years he was in office. It now tops 46 million people. Proof. get lost.

  14. Ok, I’m not going to comment in this thread anymore, because I’ve already been worshiping the porcelain most of the day and I just can’t handle the stress. But I would just like to say 2 things before I go to bed.

    1) If y’all would step back just a bit, look at the overall here. We’re a bunch of people with some commonalities in our backgrounds, and we’re all decent people or we wouldn’t be here. What we’re seeing here today is a microcosm of what is going on across the country- people who should be working together and caring for each other, but who are not- mostly because we’ve lost the ability to say “Well, that’s interesting. I don’t agree, but we can still work on this together.” Instead it’s all about being RIGHT and WINNING. At all costs. It will kill us if we don’t get a grip on ourselves. As I noted to someone on my Facebook page earlier this evening, I saw this week a Republican Governor and a Democratic President work together like adults, for the better of a state. This is what real leadership is, and they were showing it. The rest of us really need to get in line.

    2) Someone, don’t remember who and I’m not going to look it up, abbreviated my name in a reply. I would appreciate it if you did not do so. If it is onerous to type ‘Liutgard’, a simple ‘L’ would suffice. But I have a real antipathy towards diminutive names, and this is a place that I don’t wish to be cranky. Eight letters really aren’t that many. Thank you for your consideration.

  15. Darrell,

    Up until this picture, I honestly thought you were a “die-hard” Democrat. Your postings are misleading because with as much ill feelings that you have for fundamentalists, I was convinced you “jumped the fence” to liberalism and became a Democrat just to spite whichever fundamentalist church hurt you.

    Darrell, for what it’s worth, not all fundamentalists are “evil” and “out to get you”. Jesus went through as much ridicule and rejection from those that should have showed Him love, but what did they do?, they spat in His face, cursed Him, and much, much, more. If the pharisees and saducees did what they did to Jesus, then how much more the Pastors, Trustees, and Deacons to you and I. When they nailed Him to the tree, Jesus did not react with anger and hatred towards them, and neither should we. When Jesus was called “Beelzebub”, Jesus could have reacted by saying “screw this, I’m not dying on no tree for these ingrates. I don’t need this pressure!”

    I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist who believes God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit IS THE Creator, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE Beginning and THE End. I do not believe that ANY Pastor, Trustee, Deacon, Sunday School Teacher, Etc. is THAT Creator, AND NEVER SHALL BE. I attended Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches, and yes, was hurt by every one of them. I had visited many, many other Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches searching, hoping, and praying that one of them would become my home church. While they did preach the gospel straight from the KJV, they did not practice the gospel. Their practice, lets just say, was nowhere Biblical, and let’s just leave it at that.

    Eventhough, you and I have been hurt, we are commanded to press on. Don’t mistake me, because saying “press on” is easy while doing it is difficult in this world, in our pain, in our suffering, in our frustration, in our grief, and in our bitterness. Not long after Christ was crucified, there was terrible persecution towards the Christians. Eventhough they had house churches, the Christians never stayed long in them because they had to scatter all over the known world to keep the Romans from crucifying them, BUT, wherever they went, they did not say “screw this nonsense”. Instead wherever they went, they preached Christ….even when there was no church. When they came to a town or city that did not hear of Christ nor had a house church, they started a house church on their own before they had to flee again.

    Darrell, you have been given a wonderful ministry by God to minister to those of us sheep that have been “scattered” by the Pastors and hirelings. The Christians that fled the Romans did not have internet to encourage each other, to comfort each other, to help each other as they “pressed on”. Yes, while we are not being physically impaled to the cross like the young church, we are being spiritually impaled by the wayward pastors, false prophets, and hirelings; AND satan is loving every minute of our pain that distracts us from “pressing on”.

    When I first stumbled onto your website, I was so excited that the Lord led me to others that had suffered as much as me. I never realized there were so many hurting Christians at the hands of pastors, deacons, etc. I have read a number of your posts and a number of comments left behind. I have seen A LOT of anger in your posts and in comments left behind. I am not condemning any of you because I understand your anger, hurt, and bitterness. I have my own, BUT we all, including myself, need to ask ourselves: “am I going to make satan happy by just giving up on Christ and spending the rest of my life angry and bitter, or am I going to get up and press on for the Lord?”

  16. Thank you, NITC. I know I’m going to stop feeling all this pain and immediately put a smile on my face and remember that I am foolish, wrong, and stupid for even thinking about having hurt feelings. I’m going to repent of these britches, put on a nice skirt, and go out into freezing temperatures and make all my neighbors pray the sinner’s prayer so I can make Satan sad and pouty.

    Please, NITC, your entire post is so fundy. Now if you’ll excuse me, my head needs to explode. πŸ˜₯

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