138 thoughts on “Fundy Missionary Presentations: Romania Edition”

        1. Bama looked tough beating up on teams like Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, and West Carolinia. Then they ran into LSU and aTM.

        2. Come on guys…where’s the love? EC Western Carolina is this Saturday…win. Auburn…win…SEC championship…win…we’ll see what happens after that :mrgreen:

        3. Assuming Bama gets past Georgia for the SEC championship, they face Notre Dame in a bowl and get beat. SEC fans everywhere weep.

        4. Just Kiddin, big Bama fan, but it was refreshing to see alittle air get taken out of them.

          But oh my goodness, Johnny football is by far, the most exciting football player that’s come along in a long time!

          SEC all the way!!!

        1. Looks like Coach Cheezit is going to be unemployed shortly πŸ˜› Maybe Scam can get him a job with the Panthers for the right price :mrgreen:

      1. Roll Tide Roll! Rama Jama Yellowhammer, Give ‘Em Hell, Alabama! (Am I allowed to say “Hell” here? πŸ˜† )

        BamaMan, I am with you all the way. And I would like to remind the critics hereabouts that Bama beat LSU, so there, nyah-nyah.

        And yes, we’re about to pulverize Auburn. Auburn’s been playing so badly this year that my son donated hia student ticket and came home for Thanksgiving. RTR!

        1. Well, EC, as a devout Catholic I should be rooting for Notre Dame versus Alabama. But…nahhhh.

      1. Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim– the head scarf is pretty common among older women in the Balkan region, even when they aren’t in church.

        The black clothing for widows is also traditional.

        1. Exactly. That’s what I was thinking…forgot about the Muslim aspect as well, as I am used to seeing a hijab in lieu of a kerchief style head covering around here in the US. I just wonder if the Fundies have caught on to this or not? I can’t imagine they would let it go if they thought it was rooted in any other religion that was devoid of “the gospel”. πŸ˜‰

        2. Since so many IFB missionaries seem to assume that making people Christians is synonymous with making them white Anglo-Americans, it may only be a matter of time before these women are urged to change to the southern U.S. “standards” of no head covering, big hair, and lots of makeup.

        3. Hey now! Don’t be blaming the standards on being southern. There are PLENTY of northerners that have those standards, and far less southerners with big hair and lots of makeup than we get credit for. Hello, Jersey Shore!

          Yes, I am a southerner and NO I don’t “jack it to Jesus” or put my makeup on with a Bondo knife. Also, a lot of southern old-school Catholics still cover their heads when they go to mass.

          One thing that is true about southerners, is that we can be sugar sweet but mean as a red wasp when we’re provoked! 😯 And we also don’t take ourselves to seriously.

          I’m half-joking and tongue-in-cheek here btw…but I AM annoyed by how much it seems like the south gets tied to the whipping post about EVERYTHING.

        4. Dude, I told you I was half-joking. That comment was more in jest. Not freaking out here. πŸ˜€

          AND OMG Texas is a different animal altogether. I <3 Texas btw…I have very good friends in Texas, natives and otherwise. You guys HAVE cornered the market on the hair, no one does big hair better for sure. I love that pic of Ann Richards shooting…cracks me up!

          Just pointing out how things that are considered southern apply just as much elsewhere, and a very small percentage make up what the rest of the country thinks we all ARE. I am VERY happy to see IFB preachers from the northern part of the country, only because there's proof that we're not the only ones caught up in this mess! I don't want the credit for these people LOL!

        5. All true, SweetT, although, as Darrell has pointed out, some IFB preachers from northern states still affect a countrified Southern accent, as if it’s part of the job.

        6. Ugh! I know SnailMutantBigGary…that makes me CRAZY! I guess that’s why I like to hear the northern ones LOL!

        7. What’s the deal with the accent? Fake ‘cuuuntree’ accent, and BAD grammar seems de rigeur. Did I miss something? Did Jesus say in 1 Philip 23:10 “Thou must speake in the tongue of the fathers in the South, for him that speaketh not shall be cast into outer darkness. Hay-men!”

          Stupid. I mean, you head preachers who sound like that, here in Portland, Oregon. We are not Okies, yanno?

  1. The last SBC church I was in makes annual missions trips to Bistritsa. Somebody gave a windfall amount to the church and we built an orphanage and a church there.

    Romania does have the gospel, and not just the “1-2-3, pray after me…be warmed and filled” gospel. I always hated mission works or even local churches that presented themselves as the last bastion of truth for God. As if He needs us. lol

    I’ll save this rant for another time, but I was sick of hearing sermons butchering Ezekiel 22:30.

    On a side note, the video work was hideous, but not as awful as some other mission vids I’ve seen. He gets bonus fundy points for the extra large-size Bibles each and every family member was hoisting at the hillside video intro.

    K, I’m done now.

    1. That video production quality is quite a bit better than that of most of the church videos featured on Stuff Fundies Like.

      That’s not the same as “good,” but still, give them points for making an effort.

    1. I suspect that such “soul-winning” in a place like Romania consists of getting people to repeat a prayer of whose meaning they have no idea. If somebody does it just to be agreeable, or just to make you go awaw, you count it as a soul “won.”

      I realize that this is more or less what “soul-winning” is like everywhere, but the more foreign the culture is to such practices, the less idea people have about what’s going on.

  2. This video is disturbing on so many levels. The few that spring to mind immediately for me are:

    1. Cramming 30 people into a van that seats 9. I guess they don’t care if there’s an accident because they have all prayed “THE PRAYER”

    2. Because I don’t speak Romanian, I have no way of knowing if he is speaking it properly or not. BUT isn’t it weird how if you watch and listen you can almost tell EXACTLY what he’s saying just by intonation ALONE?!

    3. The pastor’s wife sounds like she is heavily medicated. She has that loopy-ness in her voice…

    Regarding #2…immediately thought of “The Poisonwood Bible”

    4. They always say there is no gospel. Plenty of religion but, no gospel. Really?!

    1. 1. Yes, the complete lack of safety is horrifying. I realize that there may be a lot of transport that isn’t much safer in a country as poor as Romania, but can’t they do better than this? If there are that many members who live far from the church, why not have services in those neighborhoods?

      2. I notice that the pastor’s e-mail is “Boyle@oldkjv.com.” Can they really be making all these Romanians read the King James Version??

      3. Having had six kids in about five years, as it looks like she has done, has to be pretty hard on a woman. I guess the Boyles have taken it on themselves to populate Romania with Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.

      4. Romania is one of the ancient cradles of Christianity. There have been Christians in Romania since the 3rd century. Most people there are Orthodox or Roman Catholic, although Protestant Churches have long been there, too. The Unitarian Church began in Romania in the 1500s (although I realize that IFB followers might not be impressed by this). Christianity was without a doubt set back during period of Communist rule, but there are plenty of active churches in the country now. It’s bizarre to say there is “no Gospel” there.

      1. To be fair, not all “churches” preach a true gospel. So the existence of churches does not equate a Biblical understanding of the gospel.

        Having said that, I am also hesitant to say that a country like this has no gospel message without the help of the good ole American missionary. I don’t think that is an accurate representation either. And frankly, many fundies preach an incorrect gospel message altogether, as has been previously noted.

        Odd dress, KJVonlyism and all, I still do not want to knock on this family. What can you really tell from a video presenation? I’m not sure, but at least they came across as having a genuine sacrificial love for these people, which is far better than most American churches, fundy or not.

        Who am I to judge another man’s servant? I think we should leave the missionaries alone. Even if these people are wrong on so many fronts, I admire that they are willing to leave their homeland and go somewhere else and tell people about Jesus.

        1. IFBers will say that there is no gospel witness in a place unless there is an IFB church of their exact variety nearby.

        2. SOME IFBs would say that, but to be fair, I believe most recognize that some other denominations preach the gospel, and people are saved through their ministries. They would not, however, fall into the “bible believing” church category…lol.

        3. Michael, this is not an exaggeration. I have heard it time and again from missionaries on deputation. Missionaries to far flung and gospel arid places like Philly. Just speaking purely from experience.

        4. When we were in Cork this summer I bumped into the website of the local IFB missionary, http://www.biblebc.com. Where I discovered there are less than forty New Testament churches in Ireland. Oh and it’s safe to drink the water…

        5. Actually, Jes, I do believe it is more than the occasional exception, and is what tives me some hope for the fundys. Of course there are some nuts that believe they are the only real Christians out there. But most missionaries I’ve known who have served many years realized early on that they could not be so dogmatic and legalistic, and would in some ways be willing to cooperate with other missionaries of different denominations for a common purpose. Does that mean they worship together…maybe not, but they t least form friendship and mutual respect more often than is reported.

          For example, I don’t believe it is possible to be a missionary in England or many other European countries without befriending a few Calvinists, although that would be taboo back in the states. I often find many ditch the piano and suit and tie, except when they have to come back for furlough.

        1. No offense Steve, but the Orthodox churches have their own issues, and are at times just as bad as the fundys. The Russian Orthodox church’s support of Putin is a prime example IMHO.

          Most of my Orthodox friends don’t have the foggiest idea about actually being a follower of Christ, or any basic understanding of the gospel. But they do have interesting icons on the dashboards of their cars, as if that makes them okay with God or something.

          I’m not saying that is you…or your church…just my experience. Very dry…religious people, but no relationship with Christ.

        2. That’s because here in the States, the Church has done a rather abysmal job of catechizing the current generation. We are rather acutely aware of that, and are starting to mend our ways.

          As I said, the whole goal of the missions effort to countries such as Romania is to work with the local hierarchy to evangelize and catechize the current and next generations, even those already nominally in the Church, who would fit the exact description you gave. This is an openly stated goal of Pat. Daniel’s (he’s the patriarch of the Romanian Orthodox Church, btw).

          As for the ROC’s support of Putin…I fail to see how that’s a problem. As long as they don’t start letting him dictate dogma (and they most assuredly do not), they are just continuing a long tradition of state/church harmony that began with Constantine. Now…whether you like that or not is a whole ‘nother debate that I’m not going to get into on this thread.

        3. Oh, and just because they can’t explain something in a Western dialectic (or maybe not at all) doesn’t mean they don’t understand and believe it on a visceral level.

          Have you ever asked them about it?

      2. Our church once sent a questionnaire to all our overseas missionaries asking them which english version they used. Most said they didn’t use an english bible much but on deputation and whatnot. They were asked again and dropped unless they were kjv only. Nice.

        1. Yes…the dear questionnaire. I always loved the fact that I was asked about my wife wearing pants, if my kids can go to the movies, and even if I believed in mixed swimming.

          But very rarely was I asked about my soteriology. Sad.

        2. Very sad. Their words revealed where their heart was. They are bound up in their traditions and their legalism, valuing their man-made standards more than the things of God.

    2. This is one of my pet peeves. How come these guys are always “bringing the Gospel” to places that already have it? Yeah, I know, we Catholics (and apparently the Orthodox too) supposedly don’t have the True Gospel. Er, guess what? The IFB folks would not even have the Bible if the Catholic Church had not codified the Biblical Canon at the Councils of Carthage and Hippo waaaay back in the day. (Before this, there was a lot of controversy regarding which books to include and which to exclude; Eusebius reports that many bishops of his day were pretty iffy about the book of Revelation….Imagine what today’s IFB pastors would do without the Book of Revelation!? The mind boggles.)

      Anyway, leaving all that aside, whenever a colleague tells me that his/her kid is going on a missions trip to Ecuador or Chile or El Salvador, I always want to respond (but I’m too chicken to do so): “Gee, why doesn’t he/she bring the Gospel to, say, Uzbekistan? Or maybe Saudi Arabia? Or North Korea? Or somewhere else which really hasn’t much heard the Gospel?”

      Of course, bringing the Gospel to a TRULY unevangelized place might involve an unpleasant consequence like, you know, martyrdom. So much easier to go evangelizing in a place where people already know about stuff like the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection…much less work to do, and it’s a ton safer. All you have to do is wean people away from those life-giving Sacraments and stuff so they can enjoy that pure, simple, unvarnished Christianity which most early Christians would have found completely unrecognizable. πŸ˜‰

      OK, end of rant. Can you tell this is one of my BIIIG pet peeves? :mrgreen:

  3. I’m really hoping the missionary’s wife isn’t planning to have many more babies while they’re in Romania–their maternal death rate is even worse than in the US. According to The Lancet, in 2008,the US ranked 39th (of 181), with 16.6 deaths per 100,000 live births; Romania was 53rd, with 26.1.

    For the record, Italy ranked lst, with 3.9, and Afghanistan 181st, with 1,575.1.

  4. Ugh, I can’t imagine them trying to make them read King James! I guess it’s easier to convince them they are right if they don’t understand it. geesh!
    I would think they would have them read the version that is most easily understood. It makes me wonder how much good they really do there. I’m not doubting their motives but coercing them to be “an American” Christian? I wonder if the Orthodox and Catholics are reaching out to these people? I know not in the same way, (thank God), but at least they would preserve some of their cultural dignity.

  5. Loved the video! Boyles Family I appreciate you and love the efforts you are putting forth to bring the life-giving message of the gospel of Jesus Christ to Romania!

    Man, alittle time away, may have been the very best thing for me. Have ya’ll been like this the entire time?

    1. greg – it was so bad when you were gone that we done and gone re-elected that liberal-muslim-immigrant for president. Where was our bastion of truth?

      :mrgreen:

      Welcome back.

        1. No, I don’t think he’s Calvinist, although the United Church of Christ does have some Calvinist roots.

  6. With everyone asking if they are making them read the KJV. They were using a Romanian translation closer to modern versions textually. Then they had a new translation closer to the KJV. I suspect that it may have been done of the KJV. This particular family is no longer on the field. They came back because his wife had health(as far as I know she’s ok now) complications and then they decided to stay here.

  7. Ok. They claim to make 5 trips in the van “just like” the one in the video in which 35 people exited. Did anyone see anywhere close to 175 people in a service?

      1. I rather suspect that there was some monkeying with the numbers. I used to have a 8 passenger van, and a friend of mine drives a 15. Neither one of them could handle 35 people crammed in- the body won’t do it. Shocks and springs don’t like that kind of load.

      1. Being as I have my PhD in Fundy Math, I concur with Scorpio’s assessment. If they had a modest attendance of 70 people (2 35-passenger van loads), that would equate to 560 van riders.

        70 people x 4 services/week x two-way travel (to and from church) = 560 van riders

        This is textbook example of how to perform Hyles Math.

        1. Nobody saw the other side of the van…were the exiters were running around and getting back inside to exit again
          Like a Clown car…a big, lumbering KJV clown car

  8. Working in full time ministry IFB-style is extremely isolating.

    After befriending foreign missionaries and hearing their stories, I am convinced the isolation is 1000x more extreme.

    I am not denying the call of or need for missionaries, but I believe much more needs to be done to support them emotionally. Throwing money and prayers at them doesn’t help much when they are strangers in a strange land.

    1. I’d imagine it’s far worse for IFB missionaries as they’re so inundated with the “separation” ideology and the idea that American Fundy culture is the culture of God. That can’t be conducive to forming true friendships on the field.

        1. I was taught to be proud of being considered “weird”. Being counter-culture and isolationist was to be a badge of honor.

        2. Being used to isolation or being taught to be proud of it doesn’t make it actually easier or healthier for the spirit over the long term. It’s one thing to be an isolationist in a church full of isolationist who are culturally similar. It’s a different thing to be an isolationist when surrounded by a culture you are forced by your ideology to be isolated from. My comment wasn’t so much that they actively are bothered by the isolation, but that as a fundy, the isolation eats at you and burns you out whether you’re realizing it or not, and for missionaries on the foreign field it would be even more so. Being proud of being isolated doesn’t keep it from killing you by inches.

      1. Actually, I believe the mission field is good for IFB’s. If they actually make a life out of it, they often shed some of the legalistic baggage from the United States, as they learn the hard way that KJVonlyism, “door knocking” and the like doesn’t work in many other cultures.

        The ones that don’t learn those lessons end up going home frustrated, IMHO. The ones that stay, put on a fundy face when they go back home for furlough.

        1. I agree. The bad thing is that their new understanding puts them in conflict with their churches back home.

        2. The long-term fundy missionaries I’ve known didn’t so much have an evolution of beliefs as a big, fat badge of persecution. Granted, they’re from the Landmark, Missionary, Sovereign Grace, Baptist Bride, Independent Baptist circle of fundyism, so touting persecution feeds the super-separational paranoia. I heard a lot about how X fundy/Western practice not working was merely a sign of how godless the culture was they were trying to reach. Funnily, one of those missionary couples was in Romania. You’d think the country was a bunch of post-Christian, occult-inspired, hardened, God-hating pagans the way the people were described. Always with that “let us pity them for their darkness” tone of voice. Ugh. At any rate, one would hope that long-term exposure to other cultures would dispel the fear-based approach and inspire a change of beliefs. I wonder what the ratio is for those who were inspired to evolve out of Fundamentalism versus those who burnt out because of “hardened hearts” and “persecution” and came home.

      1. Yes, that seems to happen a lot, doesn’t it? My husband candidated at several small churches (5-10 families) –in Greenville, South Carolina. Craziness, I tell you! I mean, why is this?

  9. I really wished I could understand what he was preaching. I’m quite curious. I did like that he seemed to have a low-key style.

    The two things that bothered me most about this video (aside from the idea of this poor woman being a missionary in a strange country and having so many children in a row–she’ve must have just worn out):
    1) the blanket application of Western fundy techniques in a culture that is so different (and has a much older foundation of Christianity and religious culture).
    2) The wearing of suits while trying to reach an obviously impoverished group. Tacky. But, a true application of the belief that American Fundamentalism is the culture God wants to see around the world.

  10. IFB missionaries are so intriguing. I feel bad for his wifeβ€”stuck teaching children (which is all women are allowed to do in IFB churches). Teaching children isn’t bad, I should clarify. If he’s asking for support, my first thought is to stop having babies. 6 kids! It’s not wrong, but jeez. How much support goes to their mouths. I think they should shoot for 7. And that’s definitely not a KJV.

    1. Just as an outside observation, I thought that the video of her teaching the children was very awkward and dull. (Of course, she was trying to communicate in a second language which has to be incredibly difficult.) Near the beginning, there was a woman leading a roomful of children in a song and it was animated and joyful, but I think that woman was a native speaker.

      Not everyone has the gift of teaching, and sometimes pastors’ wives and missionaries’ wives are forced into that role which is very difficult for them.

  11. I do have to wonder what the Boyles would think if they came across some (not all, of course) of the comments here. I’ll be the first person to criticize general insanity, but some of the comments could be a lot more tactful. “Fertile turtle”? How is that respectful?

    Whether we’re fundamentalist or not, the Boyles are our brothers and sisters in Christ, even if we can’t believe how many of them there are.

    And not all of us are KJV-only any more, but does that mean we have to mock those who are every time we get a chance? I’ve known a lot of missionaries like this who were young and idealistic, and who were trying to serve God with the tools they had, because NO ONE GAVE THEM ANYTHING ELSE. This could have been me 15 years ago.

    If I were Mr Boyle and I got burnt out by the mission field and fundamentalism in general and came here, I’d be crushed. From everything we know, this guy is NOT Jack Schaap.

    Let brotherly love continue.

    1. Thanks for providing some balance, petrushka. I think many of us have an almost pavlovian response due to the abuse we endured. I pray God can work out love in our lives – and blog comments. Also, as one of nine kids, let me just say that I wouldn’t trade it for the world. I have siblings in every field imaginable, so I don’t have to worry about health care or legal representation. And with six strong brothers, if the shit hits the fan, we will hit back. I wouldn’t trade my large family for anything. :mrgreen:

    2. I think you are correct. With some small changes this could have been me just a few years ago.
      Yes, they are our brothers and sisters and we should remember that.
      When I was on my way out of fundystan an outside observer would have seen me as a slathering, fire-breathing fundy. In my heart though, I was questioning all of it and laying my plans to escape.
      Thank you for what you posted. I just wanted to write this to say that I agree.

  12. Let’s be honest though- that was a well done video. I don’t expect it to be a Hollywood production, but it’s better than any Hallmark channel movie I’ve ever seen. But I don’t know about those guitars… they must be compromising. Guitars are just a gateway instrument- next thing you know, they’ll have a jazzy “black church” style organ and then *gasp* a tamborine! Turn back Boyles! (Guitars are a “slippery slope” you know…)

  13. I have read and even enjoyed many comments on this sight. I have agreed with some and disagreed with some but can appreciate the feelings and opinions of everyone. What I find disconcerting, is that you all have become the very thing you critize the fundamental movement for being! I do not know this missionary, nor do we support him, but to critique and criticize a man that has left country and familiarity to help others is over the top. The greatest problem in fundamentalism is people who are overbearing, hateful, unloving, and judgemental. How have are you any different? You may not agree with all his beliefs or even his denomination, but to make fun and light of what he is doing really shows your lack of love and Christianity. For all your rants about fundamentalism, where is YOUR compassion, understanding, and lack of judging? If you don’t agree with fundamental beliefs fine. If you have left fundamentalism, that’s ok, but why the personal attacks on this man and his family?

  14. I just feel so sorry for Mrs Missionary – 6 kids, in a second language, in a poverty-stricken country, trying to import a foreign religious tradition to a recently communist country and not even allowed to wear trousers in the cold.

    I’ve been to Romania – they have nothing. If Mrs Missionary has so much as a washing machine I’d be surprised. I can’t imagine the sheer hard work involved; I just hope Mr Missionary isn’t a strict complementarian because if he is, she is going to be exhausted.

  15. Isn’t that why fundy stuff is put on here? To mock and laugh at? That’s what I’ve gathered from this site anyway. I come on here once in awhile just to see if you all are making fun of my family yet. You did once. The assumptions made! Amazing. I was literally shocked the first time I came to this site. Kudos to those of you who actually said something nice to say. I pray to GOD this family never sees what you people wrote. How discouraging it would be to know you are in a far off land doing your best for the ONE you love and to see fellow Christians bashing you. To see them making fun of your relations in the bedroom and actually mocking the fact they have 6 PRECIOUS, beautiful children. AMAZING.

    1. It’s one thing to say that the KJV is the best translation in English (probably wrong, but not totally bonkers, and in any case a subjective matter). But to say that it’s the only acceptable translation in any language, and that Bible translations into, say, Romanian should be based on the King James rather than on the original texts– that’s just all kinds of crazy, and completely indefensible.

  16. I actually speak a bit of Romanian, having gone on a mission trip to neighboring Moldiva a while back. Surprisingly, he’s giving a fairly decent Gospel presentation, and not ranting about things like pants, movies, or the KJV.


    The Ear

    1. I agree. I don’t speak Romanian, but I can understand some (training in Latin and other Romance languages comes in useful), and it sounded like a straight-up sermon. Maybe being overseas strips things down to the basics, you know?

  17. I could only get thru 3+ min. So I never did see if he opened that huge Bible. I have my Bibles on my Kendle. I’m not very spiritual you see. Oh another note the little girl who says she loves her independent baptist church reminds me of the girl in the movie Beetlejuice. At one point she is possessed by Beetlejuice and says how much she loves him same inflections and all. πŸ™‚

  18. I had the opportunity to travel to Romania and work with a home for girls from abusive situations. We worked with Baptist churches that have been there since before communism fell and the faith of those believers was challenging. I didn’t watch the entire video, so I don’t know where this family is located, but there is large body of believers in the capital city of Timisoara. http://www.missiolink.org/about-mli/ministry-locations/ Click on Deborah House.
    Anyway, all that to say that there are Christians in Romania who have been there long before that family ever came. (I go to church with an evangelist who had the opportunity to preach over there 3 days after the Christmas revolution and he was the one who organized our trip.)

  19. I did some digging and all I could come up with is that the wife delivered a 30 wk preemie in February of last year.
    http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=342967945734544&id=191599064204767

    I’ve been both disturbed and amused by the video and comments here, having come from IFB background myself. I saw the car and said “Yeah, that works if it’s a clown car and you have the people circling several times… πŸ˜† πŸ™„ ” – but I guess I see what they’re saying there.
    It sounds like some numbers were stretched a little.

    I’m not going to discuss their fertility here, but I hope she is ok and there are no plans for future kids any time soon. That’s awfully scary that she had such an early preemie. 😯

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