This call to prayer is the quintessential response of fundamentalists to times of tragedy and need. Apparently as long as you pray for the needs of someone’s soul you are absolved from having to care about their body.
Mike apparently thinks it’s what Jesus would do.
First?
Did I make it?
Almost had it!
Wow; third
Clear edit when his glasses “jumped” onto his face about halfway through.
At about 0:45
If you watch the full video you will see that nothing of substance was removed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbG5opu0W1Q
I didn’t know you had done the edit; I just meant that there was a disturbing edit when his glasses jumped onto his face; I thought that he had done the editing.
“This video is currently unavailable”? 🙁
Try again in a minute.
“Weee’rrrrrreee…. overjoyed…” as evident by his countenance?? Oh brother, stoic joy to be sure… blah blah blah bs!
~~~Heart 😕
My thoughts exactly. Not much joy in his being overjoyed. Love the idea of stoic joy.
When he was listing all of the adjectives for the church, all I could think of was this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny
Is that Belkar as your avatar?
Yes it is. Lizard is my husband. My dear sweet atheist Jew. I am so going to hell for marrying him and not a fundie. 🙂
My oldest daughter, who was raised in the Assembly of God and Church of the Nazarene, is now an agnostic, and married an atheist Jew scarce six weeks ago. He is an absolute doll, and one of the finest humans I’ve ever met. And he laughs at me, the shiksa with bits of yiddish peppered through my vocabulary and I have absolutely no idea where it came from…
Yes.
For those not familiar with the “People’s Republic of Tyranny” trope, the more adjectives about “people”, “freedom”, and “democracy” in a country’s official name, the nastier a dictatorship that country is.
Hmmm. By that standard, “United States of America” = medium-nasty.
Mike’s book list includes a way to “hate queers” It’s not surprising that he hates storm victims too.
Not sure how you made the “hates storm victims” conclusion.
There was the typical wording that goes along with a fundamentalist camp, but he didn’t say what you are assuming.
Maybe hate was a strong word but perhaps he cares more about making himself feel good by praying for the victims and their soul than doing something to actually help. In my mind that attitude shows an uncaring, selfish, “make me feel good” attitude.
James 2:14-16.
“You have a saying: ‘I’ll Pray for You’.
We too have a saying: ‘PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!'”
— paraphrase of a line from Babylon-5
Well, to my non-fundie ears, what I heard was “Some people died in the storm and are now burning in hell forever. Some people didn’t die, and if they’re lucky, they’ll see the loss of their homes as a sign from God that they’d better start praying. Otherwise, too bad for them.”
Perhaps not “hate”, per se, but a pretty callous dismissal, or so it seems to me.
Yep, that’s what I heard too. Smug doesn’t begin to cover it.
“We’ll think of a few more adjectives if you need them…”
Please, I’m sure we are much better at the adjective-picking.
doesnt the sign infront of your church say all that pixxel? 😀
hahaha!
No.
Although, you and I both know it used to.
Oops, he forgot to say “King James” Bible believing.
“Snot slinging, CCM hating, culotte wearing, MOG worshiping, Hay-men shouting…”
I’m guessing that if I prayed for them using my prayer beads that would not be acceptable, however.
Of course it wouldn’t! Don’t you know praying over beads is idolatry? You wanna pray over something, how about this 20-lb genuine leather-bound 1611 KJV signed by Jack Hyles that sits on my mantle for all to see and marvel at? 😉
Fundamentalist Hierarchy of Needs:
1. Better behavior
2. More appropriate attire
3. Jesus in their heart (hay-men)
4. A KJV (1611 AV)
5. Membership in an old-fashioned, conservative, separated, missionary-sending, skirt-wearing, tract-distributing, Patch the Pirate-worshiping, Hellywood-shunning Independent Fundamental Baptist Church
6. A small income out of which to tithe
7. Food
8. A roof
Lol. At FundyU in anthropology class we covered Maslow. The teacher was quick to point out how wrong and pagan the structure was. But then added that if we were really careful we might could use it to help us missionary better. Snort.
Please tell me he went on to say people should give to help their physical needs? Please? 😥
Michael O’Neil or Chris Matthews, who do you want to ride out the storm with?
Because I’m sure they are all up in New York thinking to themselves “You know I really do appreciate this box of food and warm blankets and necessities these nice folks from Catholic Charities dropped off but DANG I wish I had a King James Bible and a Joe Chick Tract
“Jack” Chick
I found the extra adjectives he was looking for; useless, apostate, legalistic, old fashioned, “bible-believing,” independent, fundamentalist, missionary, separated Baptist church.
love the glasses jump and the Bible opened like, “Oh Hey, I was just reading my Bible but sure I can talk to you for a moment.”
And yes, we should definitely witness to those surviving Sandy. THAT’S what they need. It would be really boost the numbers if you row your boat up to rescue them and insist that they pray the sinner’s prayer before they get in the boat. This could be a whole new way to get people saved!
those are some very old books behind him.
“Be warm and filled” comes to mind!
Ah, but that verse only applies to Christian brothers, and since we know that no one in New York is a true Christian, we have no obligation to address those needs.
I definitely see someone in need of a lot of prayer for spiritual growth!
I could just feel the love and concern in his voice. 🙄
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2:15-17
17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
1 John 3:17-18
We just didn’t do this in my IFB circles. It’s one of the things that convicted my husband, especially Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats. The sheep saw hungry people and fed them, thirsty people and gave them something to drink, strangers and welcomed them, needy and provided for them, and sick and imprisoned and looked after them.
While the goats “Prayed for Them(TM)”…
i know this will not be popular but my give a damn is broke i really don’t give two shits…. when jesus speaks about brothers and sisters in need; who are the brothers and sisters? are they the random people that one runs into every day or are these brothers and sisters within the church? when he talks about the poor who are the poor? are those poor in the general community or within the church community? to be sure jesus helped some with physical needs(well those people that were in the crowds following him and some he went after). jesus did not come to meet physical needs and he states that numerous times-as if a do gooding god needed to come and hand out bread alone. jesus came to provide access to god-access to god was limited before jesus and because god has a passion for relationship god sent jesus. we live in a world that is perfectly fallen and there will always be the poor and flawed systems. when creation is restored there will be no more poor, rich, middle class or hurting; however creation at present is not restored so what is the church’s goal? i would say that the church’s goal is advancement of the gospel i.e. the good news that jesus brought peace with god through faith. therefor each church has the freedom to go advance the gospel-some churches go about advancing with food drives and others by door knocking. each community is different-there is no one size fits all in churches or communities. i would say if you are having a feast and your community is in poverty a good way to advance jesus’s gospel would be to help feed people in need. i don’t know what this guy in the video thinks about gospel advancement in his community-it would seem that he cares for souls in the northeast. i guess you can debate and get out the “does he really care” gauge, but what does that do? if his church sent their budget for a week would that be enough? there are a million ways to skin a cat and many skin cats differently and there is nothing wrong with that. (sorry to cat lovers) again just advance the gospel in whatever way god has given you the ability to influence, but please don’t make this all about giving food to people because the scope is larger.
and que the attack… btw i enjoy this community it is fun to relive some bad memories 👿
You might want to take a look at James 2.
i could say you might want to look at the bible as a whole… what does this mean?
it would seem the historical context would be there were poor people within the church i.e. believers and the church was treating them poorly… but the rich non-believers they were striving to please. the rich who were dragging them to be oppressed for their faith in jesus. every time we see poor in the text is doesn’t mean poor collective. in this case it is poor within the church.
“if his church sent their budget for a week would that be enough?”
It’s would be enough for some. To those people it would be God himself visiting them. That’s the point.
you missed the point craig… the point is when would it be enough? it never would be. that doesn’t mean throw up your hands but you don’t know that church’s money issues-you assume they can send money; they may not have any. they may only be able to support through prayer. sounds like you are judging them and this pastor. i am not saying he isn’t weird but he may be doing all he can.
Your question sounds very similar to one asked Jesus: “Who is my neighbor?”
Based on Jesus’ response to that man, I would assume the answer to your question would be similar. Your brother or sister is anyone you help with good deeds. You choose whether you have a large family circle or a small one.
really?!?! well that makes it all so clear now. jesus came to rid the world of poverty and want. well that is really working out well isn’t it? it would seem that that jesus is a liar. he is a fake a phony a trickster. he is mocking humanity by making us think we can end poverty.
there will always be poor and if you have ability then help them then do it. i just find it interesting that in all this hippy happy clappy talk there is no talk of helping the church-those ones who suffer for the name of christ alone. kinda like the churches in greece and turkey that raised money (aid) for the church in jerusalem. notice that aid is sent to the church it isn’t the areas effected by the famine/persecution. jesus calls his followers rich even if they are poor. the attempt only save the physical is foolish. it is outrageous that the american church does not support those in chains around the world. the american church sends some can goods to sandy victims and pats itself on the back or goes to some shit hole around the world and takes credit for going. the things i mentioned about i.e. giving can goods are not wrong and may be help at some point. j
esus did not send christians in the world to be do gooders-there are plenty out there that do good and believe not. jesus sent his church with a message and that message was god has provided access through the death of jesus.
Jim you do realize this site is for people who have LEFT Fundie-ism, right?
thanks for pointing that out… so i don’t need your judgment.
Jim,
To a certain point, you are correct the the Bible places priority on helping the poor within the body of believers. But in Gal.6 Paul tells the church to do good to all people, especially the household of faith. All includes those outside of the Church. All includes those who are non-believers. Moreover, I didn’t see anyone make the point that the Church’s primary mission was to end poverty or end hunger. Rather Christians should be emulating a compassionate lifestyle that cares for people beyond just their soul.
I grew up in a church where I never heard a message on God’s heart for the poor and his people’s response in helping the poor, the oppressed, the widow, the fatherless, and etc… even though there are some 2000 verses in scripture that talk about this. But I sure heard alot about soul-winning. I love what Amy Carmichael said when she was criticized for her social work that went along with the evangelism and discipleship she was doing in India. “One can’t save and then pitchfork souls into heaven…Souls are more or less securely fastened to bodies… And as you can’t get the souls out and deal with them separately, you have to take them both together.”
By the way, one of my missionary heroes is William Carey because he not only preached the gospel, planted churches and did Bible translation work, but he also helped get rid of widow burnings, child infanticide, and usury, among other things.
http://www.utmgr.org/2012/08/social-justice-without-the-social-gospel-model-1-william-carey.html
Jesus healed a lot of people. I’m pretty sure they didn’t all follow him. He probably knew that would happen. But he healed them anyway. Does that say anything?
Tis the season to be jolly
Troll la loll la loll la loll loll Troll
I just like the expression “my Give-A-Dam(n) is broke”, haven’t heard that in a dog’s age. Very useful, that. 😀
Jim, why do you think Jesus never turned away anyone who was hungry or hurting? You see, a great many churches help those in need not out of some legalistic duty but for the same reason Jesus did. We actually love people.
who is talking about turning away? i am not. i am speaking about focus.
The point is not turning away, Jim, nor focus. The point is about love. It doesn’t matter if you feed the whole world, or have all knowledge. Without love we are only a sound and nothing, signifying fury.
Jim – Maybe you need to read Matthew 25:34-46. Helpful hint, in certain Bibles the letters are red in color.
Thanks for proving my point sir-Jesus is talking about the ones beaten for his name… The ones in prison the ones who lost everything for Christ-so maybe you should brush up on you understand of text within context
sir-Jesus? OBE?
Love your neighbors as you love yourself. Do good to all men. Do not withhold good when it’s in your power to do it. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Those would cover believers and non-believers. Compassion drives giving food as much as giving the gospel. Both…and, not either…or. Ignoring ANY need violates the law of love.
Maybe you need to understand context… That would be key… Thanks for the red letter comment-you put me in my place 😈
Go your way, be warmed and filled!
I’m one of those weird people who, in finding my way back to faith, decided I should pay more attention to the founder. Yep. Gospels. Red letters.
You never really notice, until you set the rest of it aside, how very radical and very difficult the message of Jesus really is. It is against human nature, really, to give as he did- unquestioningly, unreservedly. Did Jesus demand a form with proof of address and income when he healed someone? If you wandered out in the wilderness with him, did you have to listen to three hymns, a special number, and a 40 minute sermon before he fed you? Or did he just do it?
A couple of weeks ago, I went to Diocese Convention with my sweetie. It was a very interesting experience. One of the special speakers was a woman who works with the food program in an inner-city parish in San Francisco. They have a huge food pantry program- the Bay Area is temperate enough that people go there, job or not, home or not, all times of the year. So there’s a lot of people in desperate need that show up to get food. And she says that they hear a lot- from well meaning people- concerns that people are taking advantage, or scamming them. Her response really hit me “How can they steal something if I am going to give it to them anyway?” She was also of the opinion that if someone makes a donation, then it belongs to God. And he will see that it goes where he intends it.
I’ve taken to carrying a couple of boxes of granola bars in my car. I’m really broke- I’m on disability, but a few granola bars aren’t going to kill me. Portland is also pretty temperate, and we have a lot of beggars at intersections, especially on/off ramps. If I have a chance, if the light allows, I’ll hand them a couple of granola bars. It isn’t much, but at least I’m trying, and I don’t feel nearly so bad about driving on past with my ‘Jesus was a liberal’ and Episcopal Church stickers on the rear end.
Maybe I’m just patting myself on my self-satisfied shoulder. But I like to think that this is where it begins. I don’t ask their stories. I don’t need to know. I am not responsible for them- I’m responsible for me. And If I am trying to do what Jesus says we should do, it doesn’t matter what their story is. They can’t steal from me that which I was giving to them.
“You never really notice, until you set the rest of it aside, how very radical and very difficult the message of Jesus really is.”
If I may repeat a quotation:
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried”
– G. K. Chesterton
Oh how very, very true…
I learned long ago that “I’ll Pray For You(TM)” is Christianese for Doing Nothing.
… If not for “Ha ha, sucks to be you, doesn’t it?”