78 thoughts on “GOH: The Value of One”

      1. Call me late to the table, but what exactly is a buttcushion? :?: Sounds like something you use in a pew (my church has long bench-cushions, no it is not fundy).
        Now I’m reminded of the story where the minister intones, “Oh Lord, we are but dust…” and is loudly interrupted by a little girl asked, “Mom, what is butt dust?” :grin:

        1. Yes, it is a small pillow carried with one to church as an aid to comfort during long sermons. Natalie first mentioned them among her long list of things that she would move back and forth from one side of the church to another depending on which person she was feuding with (all in good fun). Then she decided to offer them to first posters (symbolically of course – unless all of you other winners have gotten a real one but mine got lost in the mail!!!! lol)

    1. Notice the difference in faith here. Crackenpants used three exclamation marks when he wrote “first”. I used a cautious question mark after my claim. Behold i have never seen so great faith…

  1. I remember that song very well as it was one of the last ones I played for the IFB college I was attending. I liked all the cool sounding chords and had fun playing it.

    Learning completely new genres of piano has been a long slow process for me now. :neutral:

  2. I brought this up, took care of some other business, and THEN noticed the “No Comments”, which shocked me.

    This song dredges up a lot of unpleasant memories of having multiple and deep guilt trips put on me because of my lack of “soul-winning” (meaning bothering strangers in their homes).

    Wasn’t this song written by Eric Riploeg, who left Longview Baptist Temple and went into (shudder) CCM?

    1. Yes….Erig Reploeg, and his former managawd (Bob Gray-TX) takes every opportunity to preach against him as a compromiser and liberal…..how far he’s fallen. I know personally tht Eric is smiling much more since he got out of LBT!

  3. I have to admit, that soloist has a beautiful voice…

    This reminds me though, of something semi-related that has bothered me for a long time: the hoopla when a celebrity had some sort of public conversion or simply makes what sounds like a genuine statement of faith (beyond the ‘I thank Jesus Christ for helping me make that touchdown’ sort of thing). It’s as though God landed a very big fish, and that very big fish is worth more to God than an ordinary one. And as often as not, that very big fish goes out on a speaking tour, etc., and talks about their conversion, and about God in general, whether they really know anything about the faith or not. (And all too often they abandon the faith shortly after, which is rather hush-hush compared to their conversion.) An ordinary new convert wouldn’t be allowed to do that. Why does this happen? I don’t think God plays favorites. Why do the churches?

    1. Dear Liutgard:

      In contrast …

      ‘…born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God’ [Jo 1:13].

      We’re seeing sub-christian narrative and theology — period.

      Christian Socialist

    2. I remember Kirk Cameron the 80s star getting saved around the same time I did.

      He’s stuck with it for the past 20 plus years.

      I always felt the same way you did with regard to church. They always played favorites even in their congregations. MBBC did it with PKs who’s daddy’s were big in the IFB. I also remember how hard I tried to make it on the madrigal choirs only to get shot down three times. Then a girl in my dorm who couldn’t even sing gets on b/c her daddy has one of the biggest churches in MI. It’s always so true…follow the money. :twisted:

      I’m so glad Jesus isn’t like that though.

  4. The singer has a Josh Grobin quality. Sadly wasting it on lyrics that give me the pee-shivers is really a shame. He’ll probably be living the high life in a few years with a record deal and a tour bus.

    Meanwhile a generation has been born who never heard of Keith Green of Rich Mullins

      1. Keith Green was awesome. Interestingly enough, just before he died he had some sort of ‘revelation’ that he’d been too hard on people, and that he needed to be more about Jesus’ love than about condemning sin. I used to get his newsletter, and it seemed that Melody didn’t get the message, because she was still all about sin, and mostly about protesting abortion, gruesome pictures and all. I wonder where things might have gone if Keith hadn’t gotten on that plane…

      2. This is Rich and his band The Ragamuffins. The guy singing this particular song is Rick Elias…one of the best songwriters the Christian world has ever known. And…I’m proud to say…one of my best friends. He also did the soundtrack for the Tom Hanks movie “That Thing You Do!”
        This is the greatest song about Jesus Christ ever written.

  5. Here is another classic example of how the IFB worships an impotent god. They pay lip service to the fact that God is all-powerful, but by their actions they say that everyting is up to them (IFBers).

    Example: Salvation. In the IFB world, the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with conversions…it is “hard preaching” or the “personal soul winner” that converts the lost. They see Jesus’ work on earth as completely passive (i.e. Jesus provided the way, but it is up to them (IFBers) to do the converting). This drives me crazy! This is the way of Charles Finney, not the Bible. In the IFB world, God just sits back and hopes that the IFBers are able to bring people to Him. In other words, God is indebted to the IFB for doing what He Himself cannot.

    I am convinced that the IFB knows nothing about the God of the Bible. You know, the One that is omnipotent and who goes forth “to seek and to save that which was lost”.

    1. For years now I have had the same convictions.

      This god who is so dependent on the work of the soulwinner, and the M-O-g, and the altar and the 1611 KJV is not the “I AM.”
      Have these people ever read Job 38-41?
      Or Isaiah 43:10-13
      “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
      “and my servant whom I have chosen,
      that you may know and believe me
      and understand that I am he.
      Before me no god was formed,
      nor shall there be any after me.
      I, I am the Lord,
      and besides me there is no savior.
      I declared and saved and proclaimed,
      when there was no strange god among you;
      and you are my witnesses,” declares the
      Lord, “and I am God.
      Also henceforth I am he;
      there is none who can deliver from my hand;
      I work, and who can turn it back?”

      1. Don – I have read many of your previous posts and know that you have a similar view to mine of Finney’s methods. When I was 16 years old, I once asked our MOG why he didn’t adopt the Petrine Method of altar calls as opposed to the Finney Method. When he looked at me completely stumped, I quoted from Acts 2:
        36 Therefore let all of the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
        37 Now when they had heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethern, what shall we do?

        For having the temerity to suggest that the Holy Spirit would cause people to act (rather than 50 verses of “Just as I am”), it was suggested that I find another high school to attend (being as I was attending the church’s fundy school at the time).

        1. Dear Bro Bluto:

          I like your style! This is precisely the kind of challenge these purveyors of religion need. Let this undercurrent grow and the so-called ‘man of God’ will soon be seeking for less Biblically literate congregations.

          Reading your words, I was reminded that at 16, I have to confess that I’d have shot back with, ‘since Peter’s methodology is Biblical and yours is not, why don’t you look for another church to mislead?

          Christian Socialist

          Come to think of it, my answer might not be much different today.

    2. Dear Bro Bluto:

      As I say, this ‘theology’ is ‘sub-Christian.’

      In this theology, faith is not God’s gift but is an act of man. [See Eph 2:8 for another view]. Needed is a faith ‘response’ to the ‘evangelistic appeal.’ This makes our act of faith a secondary offering beside the one sacrifice Christ offered up to God for us. Salvation results from the work of Christ’s offering and our offering together.

      This makes faith meritorious while putting in place the status system [hard (so-called) ‘preaching,’ personal soul winning, etc.] which is the basis for reward and punishment [guilt and public censure] that is used to motivate people to do what it takes to bring in more people with more money for those running the operation.

      Christian Socialist

  6. I could no more will my birth into Christ as I could my birth into this world.

    I didn’t come into the kingdom kicking and screaming – I was willing – but I thank God it was He who made me willing.

    Salvation belongs to God, and it is He who receives all the glory!

    1. I made similiar such statements when I was Reformed…they sound good in Calvinist circles but they sound very different in any other context.

      John 1 “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sosn of God”
      Notice the order.

      1. Hi Theo,

        I didn’t take your statement as being argumentative. However, we could go back and forth forever, I’m sure.

        In terms of order, notice Acts 13:48:

        “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

      2. Dear Theo:

        Speaking only for myself, I think that the heavier stroke falls on ‘becoming,’ which describes the actual renewal and transformation of the ones who are believing.

        The next verse [John 1:13] states immediately that this birth is God’s own decision.

        Perhaps ‘not receiving’ [John 1:11] and ‘receiving’ [John 1:12] are functional terms, indicating which group John discusses in each case, and then adding verse 13 to preclude attributing this transformative ‘becoming’ [daughters and] sons of God to any act of our own will.

        Blessings!

        Christian Socialist

      3. Theo,
        Stand your ground son. I find Calvinism as revolting as Fundieism and a similar spirit abides in the houses of both. Not in every case mind you…but in many. I’m doubtful that even Calvin would be a Calvinist as modern YRR’s view it.

        1. I think Christian Socialist has elsewhere addressed the (not insignificant) differences between Calvinism and the YRR crowd. Personally, I found my faith strengthened when I began understanding salvation sacramentally, as opposed to intellectually.

        2. I find the ability to separate God from His attributes and character disturbing and arrogant. The “I’m in the country club” mentality is abominable

  7. This is a bit off topic. I never noticed this during the four year of my life I misspent as a student at Clown College but that auditorium could best be described as a visual mixed metaphor.
    They have attempted to invoke a Greek temple through the use of columns while avoiding the beauty and grace that Greek temples achieved.
    (around 2:00 in the video you can see a visible crease in the column behind the singer)

    Why would a church seek to invoke the essence of a pre-Christian pagan temple? That does not seem to be “avoiding every appearance of evil” :wink: to me!
    The Greeks viewed their gods as being capricious and not unlike humans in a lot of respects. Later, the Romans adopted the Greek pantheon but they viewed their relationship with the gods as more contractual. We do our bit and the gods are obligated to do their bit else the whole system breaks down.
    So, maybe the choice of a Greek-like or Roman-like temple was intentional after all.

    I just looked up an exterior shot of the auditorium there. It cannot be a coincidence that the entrance to the building is designed to look just like a Greek temple as well.
    I am not sure why one would want to invoke the essence of paganism in your church. “Dr” Sexton is an odd bird.

    1. I’m not sure shut the inside, but the outside is supposed to resemble the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London. However, just like the Bible, these people only pick and choose what they want to in regards to C.H. Spurgan (no clue how to spell his last name.)

      1. I had forgotten about the near deification of Spurgeon there. Or rather, as you point out, the near deification of select aspects of Spurgeon.

        I just looked up some photos of the Metropolitan Tabernacle on Google Images and TBC does resemble it a bit. The interior is different though.

        1. It wasn’t very long ago that if you had told a Fundy that Spurgeon was a Calvinist, he would have called you a liar.

          Now most Fundies have come to accept Spurgeon’s Calvinism, but deny he was a full 5 pt Calvinist.

          They are still trying to make Spurgeon into their own image, when in reality he would have rejected much of their teachings.

    2. I couldn’t help noticing the fence around the pulpit. Is it to keep us commoners away from the mog or keep the mog away from us?

  8. Wow! That guy can really sing! Does anyone know which church this is out of? Is that Crown? I see it’s out of Temple Baptist Church, but with that many young people, one would think there is a college attached. Thanks.

  9. This reminds me of a Jack Hyles sermon in which he stated that the incarnation was necessary because “God can’t do anything unless He has a man to help him.”

    1. Wow. The more I hear about what Jack Hyles said, the more I wonder why people were part of his church. Some of the statements attributed him seem so far from believable. Wow.

  10. Just thinking out loud here, but I’m still trying to reconcile this idea in my own head. Does God NEED us? Yes, God is omnipotent but he sent Philip to explain to the Ethiopian eunuch what he was reading. “How shall they hear without a preacher?” He put Esther in the palace “for such a time as this” to save his people from destruction. So I’m not sure if saying he NEEDS us is really accurate, but it does seem like he uses us to accomplish his purpose.
    But as far as the rest of this song, I’ve always enjoyed it. I believe God and heaven do rejoice whenever “one” is converted.

    1. But as Mordecai said to Esther, “For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?”

      God will do what He will do, with or without us, but I WANT to be used by Him.

  11. the bottom front and center guy looks like Ronald Reagan.
    On another note . . . I’ve always hated these evangelistic songs that make jesus sound whiny and petulant. For instance, “the savior is waiting to enter your heart, why don’t you let him come in? . . . time after time he has waited before and now he is waiting again!” I think JW Peterson blessed us with that song.
    Yes the Bible teaches that God knocks at the door of our hearts and we let him in when we accept the gospel . . . and yes it also teaches that God rejoices when we are saved. But these songs almost reverse the situation, making it sound like GOD needs US for his own self-essteem/security/happiness/whatever, when reality is quite the opposite–we are the needy ones who should be humbly calling out to Him.

    1. “The Savior Is Waiting” was written by Ralph Carmichael, often called the father of contemporary Christian music. I believe he also did some music for the movie “The Blob” and also wrote some orchestration for Nat King Cole and did some musical arrangements for Billy Graham films. He also, wrote “Reach Out to Jesus” and “O, I Never Shall Forget the Day.”

  12. I like the thought that those in heaven are glad when a sinner repents and is accepted into the kingdom.

  13. Lead’s name is Josh Cehulik, joshcehulik.com. Really enjoyed his solos, while at Crown, although he’s not good for much else. And yes, he admitted that he’s worked for years to model his voice after Josh Grobans.

    1. Just lost interest in someone who models themselves after somebody else instead of glorifying God with the talent he was given

  14. God doesn’t NEED anyone to help him save a soul, but has chosen the ordinary means of a verbal/written transmission of the gospel to do what only He will get the credit for.

  15. When Angels Weep …

    What horrid lyrics, and the music is at least half as pathetic.

    Tonight, PBS broadcasted Bruckner’s 4th as performed by the Cleveland Orchestra on its recent European tour. I kept being distracted counting my daughter’s friends.

    Why on earth would I listen to auditory drivel as Temple Baptist displays? As an aside, don’t Baptists believe in the new birth? Is that what is meant by ‘softening up’ the heart?

    Christian Socialist

  16. The song is indicative of contemporary Arminian dispensational theology or ” modernism”. They try and call it “old-fashioned” but it’s not, has it roof to Darbyism, Finneyism – the forerunner of “revivalism”

  17. When Jesus said, “There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 people who do not need repentance,” (Luke 15:7) He was making the point that the Pharisees (those who thought they were holy but really were not) should have been glad to see the people they despised coming to God. I don’t know if Jesus was being literal or figurative there, but I do know that when fundys denounce every movement of God outside their own little circle they are being just like the Pharisees Jesus was condemning.

  18. Open Theism in the first line.

    God does not need to “anticipate” what humans will do. Utterly unbiblical and ridiculous.

  19. “START CONSTRUCTION ON HIS MANSION THERE ON HALLELUJAH STREET”?!?!?!?!

    Boy, that’s good song-writin’ (not) and good theology (not) right there!

  20. Love this song! It is a shame that they can’t just focus on the message and smile a little bit! :sad: But I enjoyed the soloist!! I have a friend who’s currently at Crown and he’s doing awesome and actually working to see souls saved. God uses His willing vessels to carry out His work here on earth! The holy Spirit moves in the heart and makes on ready to recieve Christ, and God chooses to use a human like me to show them what they must do! PTL for soul-winning and soul-winners!

  21. Hey… I knew Josh growing up. :) He went to my former fundie church for a while before he left for college. Anyway, I use to like singing that song in choir. I never thought about the words to any of the songs we were singing. Needless to say… I do now :D

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