Posted by Darrell
Seriously. Though my parents are always quick to say that they’re uneasy about him being Mormon. They were Santorum fans. I cried a little inside when they told me that.
Don’t feel bad. Over half of Texas was a Santorum fan at some point.
Wait a minute. Make that “over half of Texas Republican primary voters.” That’s far less than half the people in Texas.
I thought he was governor of Texas. That would mean that 51% of voters voted him in in the regular election right…. or was there a 3rd party that altered the vote?
Please tell me you’re joking. Rick Santorum was a U.S. Representative and then a Senator from Pennsylvania, until he lost a re-election contest in 2006.
Perhaps you’re thinking of Rick “Good Hair” Perry, the current governor of Texas. Perry is no prize, either, but at least he isn’t Santorum.
Yep; your right. I had the right faces in my head, but the wrong names attached to them. It’s been too long since I’ve seen them…or not
Thankfully I’m not fundy anymore so the religion of political candidates doesn’t have to concern me. I would definitely enjoy hearing how they can justify it though. lol
This “irony” is the fruit of an apostate church. Wide is the gate. Thanks to the ecumenical Christian Right thus we have this ticket. Sad, sad, sad.
Care to clarify how apostasy causes a Mormon and a Catholic to run for president?
Well I don’t know about the Mormon but for the Catholic, considering some of the things that have come out his mouth in the White House chase, I think apostate is one of the kinde terms for him.
Haha! So amazing and true!
I remember the furor over the JFK/Catholic issue (yes, I’m THAT old!). My mother said it might be the end of our freedom of religion. But I was, however, old enough to understand the checks and balances of government, and I didn’t think that was likely to happen, huh? I guess my issue with Romney is with his “magic underwear” and his previous oversight of something like 5 different congregations (someone please check my facts). He’s not just a Mormon. He’s a MORMON who believes the extra-Biblical texts as though they were true, and there’s no historical or archaelogical backup, to say nothing of the secret temple rituals (again, someone please check my facts). To me, that translates into a lack of good judgment and discernment on his part. I could go on and one…but you all know those Mormon beliefs anyway. Yes, I do think it is ironic, as the poster says. Again–his lack of good judgment and discernment.
It would depend on whether he converted to Mormonism at a young age or was raised to be one. It is easy to influence people when they are young, and once ideas get into our head, we are actually neurologically wired to filter all evidence through what we believe to be true. Thus, it is much more difficult to leave or accept a particular belief in adulthood than as a teen or younger person.
Besides, I’ve never met a mean Mormon. The kindness and modern emphasis on family can be very appealing to people who’ve grown up seeing broken relationships.
I disagree for two reasons.
1) Everyone has silly beliefs and practices.
2) There is no evidence that Romney’s beliefs have ever compromised his ability to lead or make sound business decisions.
Neither of which qualifies him as POTUS, however.
You’re on the wrong board. The vast majority of us on here couldn’t care less about the Bible, Christianity, or ANY religion, be it Mormonism or otherwise. LOL, you must be a newbie if you think that we have a “problem” with someone being Mormon. The only problem we have is people who are conservative and Republican, but we couldn’t care less what a person things about God or religion because we have put God and religion behind us and consider that just silly tripe not to be of any concern to us anymore.
I’ve definitely put religion behind me but God is still on the throne!
Have you ever visited the forum section? There is a believer’s section that is alive and well and I have learned a lot since I’ve come here.
I have thrown off the shackles of IFB, but I haven’t chucked my faith in Jesus out the window.
Speak for yourself, Chandrau Chicers.
Christianity matters to me. I can’t speak for the “vast majority of us on here,” though.
I think Chandrau was trying to be sarcastic…
I hope you’re trying to be sarcastic. Because you don’t speak for the “majority” here.
I remember the furor over the JFK/Catholic issue (yes, I’m THAT old!). My mother said it might be the end of our freedom of religion. But I was, however, old enough to understand the checks and balances of government, and I didn’t think that was likely to happen, huh?
One thing about JFK and before — Catholic candidates were always denounced as “Un-American, Sworn Alleigance to a Foreign Dictator (the Pope), Un-American Religion, Stooge of the Vatican, etc”.
You can’t say that about the Mormons — they’re as American in origin as you can get. Started in upstate New York, moved through Missouri to Utah, all within the USA. Claims North America is the latter-day Promised Land. Even has a sacred history of America in their Old Stories. As American as you can get.
Although “American” and “good” are not always the same thing.
hahaha. this is awesome.
So they should support the Muslim and the Ignoramous?
……speaking of believing things without any evidence.
Really? Remember Jeremiah Wright, the United Church of Christ pastor who was Obama’s pastor in Chicago? Whatever you can say about him, it isn’t that he was Muslim. After ending their association with the United Church of Christ after twenty years, the Obamas have attended a number of churches in Washington–and no mosques. He’d have to be a really bad Muslim.
Also: graduating from Columbia University and Harvard Law School as well as being President of the Harvard Law Review makes you an ignoramus? I do not think it means what you think it means.
I think the ignoramus being referred to was Joe Biden.
Take your facts and get out of here!
I just have to point out that you misspelled Ignoramus.
^ +20 ^
Or were you perhaps referring to Joe Biden as an ignoramus? He graduated from the University of Delaware and Syracuse University’s College of Law, so he can’t be entirely stupid. He is the 15th longest-serving Senator in US history, so he can’t be entirely ineffective for his constituents, either. And his position as one of the poorest members of the Senate despite his long service might well indicate that he’s one of the most honest. Yes, I’ll be happy to vote for him, and his running mate.
Thanm you so much for this comment! I have an incredible amount of respect for Joe Biden. He seems to be a man who has always put his constituents first. Though his political insight may not be as great as some others, he is, i believe, a good and honest man and a good senator.
I’ve heard the same thing about Biden. People who know him describe him as a very sincere and kind individual.
Biden is no dunce. He occasionally makes goofy remarks, most of which are just tactless rather than untrue, and since he is Vice President, all of these verbal goofs get on television. But he knows the score, legislatively and in general.
And his wife, Dr. Jill Biden (that’s an earned doctorate she has, not an honorary degree) is even smarter than he is. His children are also brilliant.
Personally, I’ve always admired him for taking public transportation (Amtrak) to work the whole time he was in the Senate. I don’t know of any other members of Congress who did that.
Having graduated from a well-known college only counts for something if you’re a liberal. George W. Bush graduated from a well-known college, but that means nothing to liberals. He MUST have only gotten through because of who he was, you know? I don’t know Biden personally, but it appears he drinks too much and has no filter and is a bit delusional. Just my opinion.
It appears to me he has a speech disorder.
‘As a child, Biden struggled with a stutter, and kids alternatively called him “Dash” and “Joe Impedimenta” to mock him. He eventually overcame his speech impediment by memorizing long passages of poetry and reciting them out loud in front of the mirror.’
I think his notorious verbal stumbles are outbreaks of a residual speech pathology. Language is hard-wired in the brain, and it’s rather common for a few of the wires to be crossed or shorted. But that has nothing to do with the high or low intelligence as a speaker.
That Other Jean said it all VERY well. So I have only to add what I hear from Loren is a lack of faith in God’s ability to have in office who He wants in office. If a muslim did get in to office. We would all be just fine. I know, work with and volunteer with muslim people who have no interest in “shutting Christianity down”. They are everyday people just like everyone else. Yes, there are extreme islamists…but as we’ve all experienced, there are extremists in Christianity. Just as we want to separate and not be associated with the crazies, so does the average muslim. Stop the hate!!!
How many extremists Christians have been involved in massive terroristic ativites that have killed thousands of people all around the world?
Now, how many massive terroristic activities have muslims been involved in?
There is no comparison!!
Are we forgetting the crusades, the genocide of the Tasmanian, south American and native American people, not to mention the constant bloodshed in Northern Ireland?
The violently factional history of Christianity is far enough back in history that terrorism garnered neither the publicity nor the death toll, so they had to do it the old-fashioned way with outright law.
Don’t forget, Islam is a younger religion than Christianity – it still has to progress though its hormonal teens.
See: the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda.
Off the top of my head I would point out that North America, Central America, South America and Australia along with large chunks of Africa and Asia were overrun by people who would have claimed the name of Christian. In a lot of the cases it was their explicit purpose to Christianize the natives.
There are and have been many, many Christian terrorists. I don’t think they are or were good Christians, but the Muslims I know don’t think that Muslim terrorists are good Muslims, either. And I’m not prepared to judge either community primarily by its psychopathic murderers.
Things liberals love to hate:
1) United States
2) Our Christian founders
3) Any quotes by John Adams, George Washington, John Hancock, Patrick Henry, John Langdon, Henry Knox, Robert Paine, Benjamin Rush (just basically any founder or person that expresses love of God and country)
4) non-union states
7) any politician that suggests folks should work for a living!
That was fun!
Hey Catherine, I’ll make it easy for ya. How about in the last 100 years!
so you want to exclude the first 1,900 years of xianity from your claim. lol Why is that?
When are xians going to learn (I am one by the way) that our religion and rules don’t change human hearts. Only God can do that. There will always be people of all religions and philosophies who bring their dark hearts with them. A religious person is just as capable as a non-religious person of doing terrible things. How many people who read this blog can attest to that?
The blog post is about current politicians. Call me crazy, but I fail to see what happened 1,100 years ago would have any bearing on this election and the terrorist threat that the next President will face!
One of these men that we will elect will be confronted with an Islamic terrorist threat that wants, indeed their holy book calls for the annihilation of Israel and the U.S.! (death to the infidels)
I don’t think we face any type of threats like that from the Christian community!
“Islam is a younger religion than Christianity – it still has to progress though its hormonal teens.” – Mohammed lived around 600 AD. By now, I hardly think it qualifies as “young”, “new”, or “teenage.”
Greg, George W. Bush was a born again christian and responsible for starting the Iraq war which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and displaced several millions from their homes. I believe President Bush said he consulted with his heavenly Father before starting the war.
How about George W. Bush?
George W. Bush, and his puppet master, Dick Cheney are war criminals. But are they also terrorists?
Well, they terrify me.
Learn something new everyday. I had absolutely no idea that the Iraq war was a Christian war!..
Re-writers of history, like some of you folks, worry me!
Greg, the only reason the MOG in this country don’t behave like the Imams in other Islamic countries is because they have been booted out of politics. Every time an extreme religious leader is allowed to have political power, things don’t go well.
Because Utter Righteousness plus Absolute Power is a VERY dangerous combination.
WOW! I’m a big political junkie, and I wasn’t aware of ANY Muslims running for president! What is the Muslim’s name and which party does he represent? Very exciting… I need to cover this new development on my blog!
our-right war, George, not law.
Though come to think of it………
Dear Daisy Deadhead:
If memory serves correctly, I believe that you are another BJU survivor. I trod those same paths, although probably before anyone ever thought of you! LOL!
Anyway, I’m glad you’re here [as opposed to 'there].
I bet that the families of the million or so Iraqis killed, wounded or tortured by American forces would happily conclude that George Bush is a terrorist.
I appreciate the mandate to human flourishing – it is the centerpiece of the Christian faith. However, “terrorist” has a specific meaning which excludes the actions of government. By definition, terrorism is outside of this. This is one reason why the “war on terror” verbiage is at best confused.
Are you sure that you’re not letting your bigotry color your reading of things? You see, I wasn’t aware that Muslims practiced the rite of baptism. If you can show me a text in the Noble Qur’an which states differently, I’ll give your assertion due consideration.
Dear Christian Socialist,
I am not a BJU survivor. I am an ex-Catholic, and they won’t let me anywhere NEAR BJU, except maybe that painting of St Francis of Assisi in the art museum. I do live in Greenville and have had over two decades of extensive interactions with BJU students, faculty and alumni–which accounts for my interest in Darrell’s wonderful blog. (I was always convinced BJU couldn’t be as uniformly wonderful as they emphatically insisted it was.) I have been picketed by BJU students (when I worked at the Open Book) and leafleted by BJU students (as a Catholic, on Holy Days), etc etc … so it has been very good for me to read the words behind the actions, and increase my understanding. I used to think these activities were primarily motivated by hate, and now I realize, it was actually more often fear, bullying, blind-obedience, dangerous-groupthink and the ever-present demerits. It has been good for me to learn this, I am actually far more tolerant now. At the same time, I am more convinced than ever, that the place is abusive. And NOW I have proof: the words of the survivors.
And I am almost 55, so I have trod my paths since … well, I forget now.
Nice to meetcha.
In my experience, Buddhist philosophy offers excellent language for describing the motivations and behaviors of fundamentalism – their tiny wheels are turned by ignorance, fear, and self-centeredness. This realization turned my heart from anger to compassion.
Jeremiah “God damn America, it’s in the Bible” Wright said Obama didn’t renounce his Muslim faith when he became a Christian.
Joe Biden is a dunce and I compare him to the Disney character Goofy.
Obama was never a Muslim. He didn’t commit to Christianity until he was a young adult, though.
Unless you consider Jeremiah Wright a reliable source, I wouldn’t go by what he says.
Loren….No, that’s not what I’m saying. Most days I would vote for “none of the above” and I’m for sure not impressed with Congress’ inability to at least do SOMETHING. The last I checked, their approval rating was very low. I just think, all the way around, we can do better.
PS…and let’s hope that, however the election goes, we get back our American spirit.
Amen to that!
Care to define that? That’s just a slogan for people to fill in whatever they want it to mean. Kind of like “Hope and Change.” For one particular young lady that meant that she no longer had to worry about filling her gas tank. What do you mean by “American Spirit?”
I agree that it doesn’t mean much of anything (unless you refer to the American Spirit brand of tobacco).
Every American I know has an American Spirit. How could an American have some other kind?
On the other hand, probably no two Americans I know would agree on exactly what “American Spirit” means.
The spirit where there can be Jewish candidates for VP, women candidates for VP, black candidates, Catholic and Mormon candidates, even atheist candidates? Why, you’ve been home all along, Dorothy!
Oh, heck, ……I think I’ll just pop some popcorn and watch this post go off like fireworks. You’re a better man than I, Gunga Darrell.
One of my favorite political quotes:
“So keep fighting for freedom and justice, beloveds,
but don’t forget to have fun doin’ it. Be outrageous… rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce. And when you get through celebrating the sheer joy of a good fight, be sure to tell those who come after how much fun it was!”
― Molly Ivins
Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
My only problem with Mr. Adams’ quote is his linking of moral and religious. It is entirely possible to be one without also being the other.
Moral without being religious, sure, in a snapshot of life. But that brings the questions “what is morality,” and “where did morality itself come from?”
@That Other Jean
I think his point was that it was made for a people that would govern themselves. No other type of person has ever been able to survive freedom. That’s why we’re so dysfunctional in our current hedonism.
This Christian isn’t supporting a cult member for president!
see, this is what real fundies are saying. The proof of that is that greg is saying it.
Wouldn’t be to sure. I have fundies all around me, including family members that are trying strongly to get me to change my mind. It seems to me that the fundies are going for the Mormon!
I cannot personally stand before God (and we all will one day) and explain to Him why I voted for someone that opposes Him and his plan for mankind! It’s an easy decision for me. But one has to make up their own mind over this issue!
Greg, the election is for POTUS, not PASTOR. Make the best decision you can with the options you have, and remember that the USA is not in Scripture anywhere.
My question is why fundies fight what they preach is a sign of end of the world. Does that mean they are really lying when the say they can’t wait to get to Heaven?
I hear ya, and yet as a Christian I attempt to serve God in the way I think is best, voting for a moron or a mormon just doesn’t seem like something “this” christian is supposed to do!
Uncle Wilver, I’ve used that exact argument before! I’m not voting for a Pastor, nor would I want the POTUS to be one!
And yet if he gets into office, then, according to scripture, God put him there! Does that mean God went against himself? It’s all in Acts 17 brother. It’s also all over the O.T. God raises up men (many of them unbelievers) to accomplish his purposes.
Friend you have spoken more truth than what you may realize. I have often said that people get the leaders they deserve. We (the U.S.)are being judged by God! And I have no doubt that these two men are part of that judgment.
The blood of millions of aborted/murdered babies cries out to an Almighty God. God hears the prayers of His people that cry out day and night against the first ever President of the U.S. to support the wickedness of homosexual marriage!
Although I am fearful to stand before our Righteous God’s judgment, I know the U.S. is deserving and I know that God’s will be done.
Even fundies are right sometimes.
The sad thing is that a political party has again duped conservative evangelical Christians into thinking that electing them is going to “bring America back to God.”
So many Evangelical Christians are “Duped” into believing right-wing politicians based on talking points. In all seriousness, Capitalist Republicans could CARE less about the social issues they push in order to get blind Christians to vote against their own best interest – It’s the best scheme going!
Very amusing, but yep, I’m voting for those two. Why? Because they are both brilliant businessmen who will hopefully help this dour economy. I gave our current President a chance, but he has added 6 trillion to the national debt and unemployment is still over 8%. I appreciate what he has done in regards to the social issues, as I am for marriage equality for gays, but fiscally, the guy is a trainwreck.
I have a feeling you don’t remember the economic collapse under Shrub that Obama/Biden have been busy digging us out from (despite relentless resistance from almost all the Republicans in Congress) for the last 3 and a half years. If you think things aren’t better now than in January 2009, you must not be old enough to remember that far back. Or you somehow believe that Romney doing all the same things Bush did (as he has promised) will lead to different results this time.
As to whether or not using your inherited money to buy troubled companies, strip all their assets, then shut them down or outsource their jobs to China, and then putting your profits into offshore tax shelters, constitutes being a “brilliant” businessman, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I didn’t realize Biden had contributed anything of note, except to make stupid comments, and give the late night comedians loads of material.
I would refer you to Biden’s (well-sourced) Wikipedia entry for his Senate career as a long-time member and two-term Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and his long-time membership in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He didn’t exactly spend his Senate years sitting on his hands.
Well then maybe you can tell us where Obama was sitting those 20 yrs when he walked into the Jeremiah Wright’s racist, so-called church?
Wikipedia have an entry on that?
The United Church of Christ is a “so-called church?” News to me, and probably a lot of other people. Here I thought they were pretty mainstream Christian.
The United Church of Christ, generally, has moved so far to the left that they no longer believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Our local one has the COEXIST sign in the foyer with Jewish, Hindu, Native American, Muslim and Christian banners.
Any church that puts up with the racism and hatred that Jeremiah Wright spews, definitely falls into the “so-called church category” And YOUR president sat there for 20 yrs, but worse, he took his children!
Bob, so far as I know, COEXIST has never meant “affirm the doctrines of.” What would you have Christians do, stomp everybody else into the ground?
If Joe Biden had done nothing other than introduce and pass the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), his Senate career would be justified for me. I personally know numerous people whose lives have been saved, literally, by the provisions of that law.
Paul Ryan is not a businessman. His entire career has been in politics.
And running a country is absolutely nothing like running a business. It’s way more complicated than that.
Governing is nothing like running a business.
I’m sick and tired of hearing the government should be run like a business. At least specify which business. Like Enron? Like Lehman Brothers? Like AIG?
Bob Jones had liberals at his school like these kids in the video. You know Jack Hyles would have flipped if he knew they were dancing in the dorms.
Was that actually at Bob Jones?
Regardless, the reaction of the kid who enterd the room, got newrly knocked over by the dancer as he also became entangled in clothing that was hanging on the doorknob, who then clasps his hands to his face in either shock or disgust and next bolts out the door, is pricelss!
And the alternative is?……
A Protestant and a Catholic.
You should have seen the fireworks in the past when I told my fundy family that I didn’t care if the POTUS was a professing Christian, and that what mattered to me more was other qualities necessary to lead a nation. It was quite fun.
Be careful, Darrell, or making political statements might lead to losing your non-profit status.
Not unless you endorse a party or a candidate (if you had a tax-exempt status to lose, that is).
It was a joke. The joke was the word profit.
Last I heard, SFL was in no immediate danger of turning a profit.
Truer words were never spoken.
Thus my donation. And I eencourage others to continue supporting Darrell in his efforts to moderate and inprove this site.
That’s because any income apparently goes to Big Gary’s salary.
I’d like a none of the above option, with only a few weeks between choosing another slate of candidates and an election.
I’m not so sure term limits are a bad idea for congress, and that campaign limits would be even better. No campaigning by anyone within 3 months of an election would save a lot of cash, as well as the sanity of the voter.
Most other democracies have a limited time for election campaigns. The campain lasts for maybe two months, and it’s illegal to campaign for office before or after that period. Yes, after, because there is a cooling-off period for a week or two before the election, when campaigning is also forbidden. Most of those same countries have publicly funded elections, too, which means that Super PACs do not become the main constituents of office-holders.
Then vote 3rd party. That’s what I did last election, and I probably will this one too. I’m pretty libertarian so neither party really appeals to me with their mainstream candidates, although there are a few out there that I’d vote for.
The most disturbing thing about this post is that it equates “Politics” with “the bedroom.”
… well, maybe it is that way. Every two years it seems “We the People” get $crewed a little bit more.
The bedroom? Who has sex there anymore?
Most Fundies of the Mike Huckabee school would never admit it, but ultraconservative Mormons (which is most of them) and paleo Catholics (which is a largish minority of them) have had a huge influence in moving the Republican Party to the far right, especially on the “social issues” and on church-state matters. There just aren’t enough politically-active Fundy Protestants to have done it all by themselves. So maybe it’s only fair that Mormon Mitt and Papist Paul are the Party’s nominees this time.
(By the way, I’ll be taking orders for buttons that say “Elect Mormon Mitt and Papist Paul.”)
I’, curious. Is Mike Huckabee a fundy?
He is an ordained Southern Baptist minister, hth
There is this apocalyptic Mormon prophecy called “The White Horse Prophecy” which I wrote about a couple of years ago, connected with Glenn Beck: http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2010/10/hanging-by-thread.html
Apparently, I got it wrong, its not Glenn, its really about Mitt. I recently found out that some Mormons are convinced he is “The White Horse” in the prophecy: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/
So yeah, even if its wacky stuff, the hard-core Mormons are taking this seriously as a sign of… well something.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
If you can tell me any of Joseph Smith’s doctrines that make sense, you’ll surprise me.
Maybe I’ll write-in Condoleeza Rice!
Another war criminal.
And Obama continued “Shrubs” policies so what does that make him?
Our troops are still over there and he extended the war in the Mideast.
And Gitmo is still open.
I think you’re describing Bill Clinton who headlined at the DNC this week.
You know, the guy who fondled Kathleen Willy, exposed himself to Paula Jones and raped Juanita Broderick.
Bill Clinton and Jack Schaap, two sides of the same predator coin.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. You are the only one in the United States that I know of, that pointed this out. I would have figured someone with the republicans would have brought it up, but no! Hey don’t forget carrying on in the oval office with Monica Lewinsky, acting like the whoremonger he truly is!
AHH! But let’s get this great One to headline our convention. Says an awful lot about our country, and even more about the democratic party!
I think this is a great post because it points to how ridiculous fundies are during election season. They rail, spit and spew against Mormons and Catholics but then preach to their congregations (or insinuate) to vote Republican. It’s totally hypocritical and foolish. Not to mention, illegal. If pastors try to sway their congregation to vote one way or the other, they should lose their tax-exempt status. The House of Worship is not the place for politics.
I’d agree that I don’t want politics preached from the pulpit. I want to hear the bible.
However, I don’t want the government censoring the speech of religious people either. If it truly is a place of religion and not some front, I say let the pastor rant about whatever he wants. If we don’t like it, we will attend a different place. I value free speech very highly. Anything that endangers it should be rejected outright.
Don’t move to Canada!
Mixed feelings. Not a fan of the Republican party, but feel they have at least included statements in their platform that more closely correspond to my beliefs. I wish there was another clear option.
Republicans don’t abide by ANY of the teachings of Jesus (or most of the rest of the Bible for that matter), but because they’re against abortion and gay marriage that makes them the best pick for a Christian?
The Right has convinced Christians that only abortion and gay marriage matter. The rest of the Bible is “not the government’s job” or “socialism.” I’m not saying the Democrats adhere to the whole Bible but they’re not claiming to the party of Christianity.
I was SO disappointed with this article. Not that Mohler is known as a bastion of logic, but this teeters dangerously into the realm of shear stupidity.
God gives a nation a leader they deserve.
The pick between a sodmite muslim or a baal/dagon worshipper with an angel moroni follower is the RESULT of born again Christians (not fundies, whatever that is supposed to mean) not believing and following God’s word.
It’s a sad thing to see but to you SMUG arrogant unsaved people – take heed, you have to live under this too and (on top of that) when you die you’re going to hell.
Daniel, May I suggest you tell us what you REALLY think!
Make that a double.
There’s nothing like Christian love…..and that was NOTHING like Christian love.
Dear Daniel Duma:
And you have no smugness at all!
Good thing we won’t be standing before you on the great and terrible yom Yahweh …
you sir are an ass.
I don’t give two craps about what religion the president is
I think its funny that someone trying to defend Obama mentioned J. Wright as if that helps (you really should check out black liberation theology sometime – its not christian nor is it liberating, and its bad for black people – its also not theology, but thats something completely different) I’d rather he was muslim. And by that I mean a real muslim, not a Louis Farrakhan muslim.
Joe Biden is an opportunistic blowhard with diarrhea of the mouth, doesn’t mean he’s dumb, although I know plenty of dumb college grads – college doesn’t mean he’s intelligent, it just means he’s persistent. Plus those satanic eyebrows freak me right out, get a wax dude!
I am tired of fundies and the third party crap as if they could actually change the outcome of an election. Its almost as bad as when they complain about school sports games or practices scheduled on wednesday night. 99.8% of all churches on the planet don’t have evening mid-week service times, its really pathetic to expect the entire culture to cater to .2% when they actually have never even heard of you.
Anyone who thinks we are better of than ’09 just doesn’t understand what those words mean. as long as the ruling class continues to fiddle about and pretend that the people don’t want them to fix the problems cause they are too scary we will get nowhere, no matter who the president is. Long term problems will never be solved by short-sighted opportunists.
“One, do I hear One? Who’ll give one crap? Give a crap and let’s start the bidding! How a bout 1/2 a crap anywere? 1/2 and crap and let’s go. Will someone give half a crap? Whadda ya wanna give for it? “
I guess it makes about as much sense as many thousands of Christians and evangelicals supporting Glen Beck too…they don’t really like to talk about how he’s a Mormon and how much they seem to agree with him anyway.
I personally don’t care what religion our future president is…as long as he’s not a fundamentalist extremist.
I don’t go for democrat or republican, I’m a constitutionalist, and as far as I’m concerned most political candidates with the exception of Ron Paul and a few others are corporate whores, who’d rather sell out this country than care about its freedoms.
Isn’t Ron Paul that little, crazy wizard dude?
greg have you ever seen him in the debates? he’s for a peaceful foreign policy, believes in the golden rule strongly, is for the Constitution, and a sound currency. He does not believe in preemptive wars. Heck ten years ago in 2002, he predicted everything that would go wrong for our country if we kept policing the world, and you know what it’s come true.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0
Totally off the subject….
I just wanted to share that I got a letter and a hand drawn picture from my sponsered child yesterday. Reading what she wrote and looking at her drawing (I do think she is a prodigy) I was filled with happiness that I am able to be her sponsor. Her birthday is coming up and I sent money to help with the celebration (the whole village gets in on it) and made an extra gift of some chickens for her. She likes chickens.
I can’t wait to send her another letter and a little gift. It all must fit in a 9 x 6 envelope, so I was thinking colored pencils, a sharpener and a small coloring book of animals.
Back to your regularly schedule programming.
Awesome Liz!! I got a picture of our sponsored child with facts about him and his family, a picture he drew and a letter he wrote. I love it!!! We (my husband & I) keep it on our fridge and I love getting to see his sweet face & smile and be reminded to pray for him, his family, his village, etc. I can’t wait to write him back too!! I love you bought chickens…that is such a great idea! World Vision has an amazing list of gifts you can buy a family. I’ve been thinking this year that is where all our “Christmas presents” will be purchased!
it tickles me when anyone thinks they can know with any amount of certainty that any candidate is more than a figurehead who happens to have lots of money and a good campaign manager. We can judge whether they are stupid, or ignorant, or wicked, to some degree, by what comes out of their mouths (though even that might just reflect more on their PR staff than on their own opinions), but we cannot presume to state that they are intelligent, or above being corporate whores, or honest, or righteous, or in possession of any other positive character quality. All we see is a public image groomed to appeal to a certain sector of the population. Anyone who thinks they can see behind the mask into the substance of the man, by watching him on TV, reading his carefully edited statements, listening to his expertly coached speeches, etc., is naive. Whoever these men may really be, they sure as heck are never going to let their real selves be sen. It’s bad PR.
I love when elections are approaching and fundies will say “no matter who wins the election we know that God appointed them to win and whoever wins is His will” and then after a Democrat wins they will rant and rave about “Voter fraud!” or “He stole the election!” and “We need to get godly Christians into office!” President Bush was one of those “godly Christians” and look how things turned out. But I guess as long as you’re against abortion and gay marriage then you get a pass on everything else. Conversely, if you’re pro abortion or gay marriage nothing else you do matters.
Would to God that we had him back!
Please take him, Greg. You are 100% welcome to him. You will have the eternal gratitude of Texas.
I would be happy to. When history looks back at this fine man/president they will recognize what a great president he was.
As Christians we often very piously declare, “I don’t know the future but I know who does.” Then in like manner we take the phrase “We don’t live by sight we live by faith,” and we anoint ourselves with the oil of self anointing.
But come election time we forget all those high and mighty, pious outpourings and we put our god in our to-go box and we mount our steed Rocinante and take off for the nearest political windmill.
It is easy to say, “We live by faith” but that has become such a cliche’, especially in a nation of excess, comfort, and entertainment. Last week Darrell showed us that there are people who actually have to live by faith, who have reall needs, who have only rudimentary comfort compared to our excess. We don’t live by faith we live by the power of self. We (christians, especially of the American variety) don’t actually believe God is in control of our lives. How can I say that? With authority. Because one’s belief dictates their behavior.
No, we are not a Christian nation. We never were. And the National Christianity that is promoted is CINO. Just because something or someone carries the title “Christian” doesn’t mean there is any resemblence to Christ at all.
Here in the political season God is relegated to celestial cheerleading. His name is taken in vain by political hacks who us him as a tool to gather voting blocks. And the political process takes centerstage leaving God in the wings. But why not? What do we need of such a god as the one portrayed on the political stage? This weak god who needs us to elect a political leader over us just as we elect this same anemic god our spiritual leader. Who needs such a god when we as a nation have demonstrated WE are the power, we choose! We will not have this (or any) god rule over us! We are gods!
God is very small in our estimation when we are comfortable and are wallowing in excess. (as we saw very vividly last week the poorest among us here in America still has a bounty compared to those living in real poverty.) May God forgive us for living by excess and not by faith. God have mercy on us for exalting ourselves above him. (Even though we may do it ignorantly we still attempt to seat ourselves on His throne and rule ourselves, according to our own power.)
*steps down from the soap box, and weeps
Perfectly stated Don! Thank you.
Got ‘em Don! Well done.
What would you have us do? In real, practical terms.
In practical terms? I’m still working that out myself. But something that hit me today like a ton of bricks and cut me to my soul was this. “Ok Don, you see the problem but where are you? Are you obedient to God or Self?” I hang my head in shame that I had to answer: “Self”.
Then what brought the tears was, “Ok, Don, do you, or have you prayed for your political leaders according to 1 Timothy 2:1-8?” and with tears and shame I had to answer: “no”.
Politics are just men clamoring over one another in order to exalt themselves. It is idolatry of the highest form.
Where is the one true God in all this madness?
What a stench I must be to him, covered in my political self-righteousness, chasing after other gods in hopes that the right party will win and allow me to wallow in my comfort for four more years.
What can we do practically speaking? Not to sound trite but I believe the answer is, “Pray.”
Let each of us examine our own hearts. Seek the Father and draw near to our Lord and Savior. Lift up our leaders who are currently in office and earnestly pray for them whoever they are irregardless of political stripe. But most of all spend time with our Savior surrendering to being conformed to his image… loving like he does. Then all this partisanship politics will fade into background noise and we can be Christians in word and deed rather than in name only.
Anyway, that’s the direction I purpose to travel. After watching the American Political Circus over the past couple of months, and reading the body politic on here and other blogs I am heart broken at the “Christian” responses I have seen.
I have cried for my country today. I have cried for what passes for Christian today. I am ashamed of the part I have played in the politicizing of Christianity as well. May God have mercy on us (me).
You spoke directly to my heart.
It’s never ‘trite’ to tell people what the bible says when they ask what they should do. I like your advice.
I find great encouragement from the Old Testament story of Jehoshaphat in 2 Chronicles 20 when he says, “We do not know what to do, but our eyes are on you.” As I grow as a xian, that’s becoming my life verse; and no, I’m not kidding.
Perhaps we should take this approach as believers instead of presumptuously assuming we know what to do.
Thanks for turning our eyes back to Jesus, as always.
‘Where is the one true God in all this madness?’
As I see it, the book of Revelation was written largely to answer this question. And as I see it, there is little in the book of Revelation that is not summed in those petitions of the prayer Jesus taught us.
Hallowed be your name.
Let your kingdom come.
Let your will be done.
Best song lyric ever on the general topic of what is the answer from a fairly obscure band Lost & Found (www.speedwood.com, it’s an acquired taste in sound):
Remember the answer to evil: Everlasting Love outpoured.
I’m no Democrat, but I do regularly pray for the President. And I don’t mean negative prayers like some are advocating. I believe that as Christians we should pray for our leaders no matter their party. Will I vote for President Obama? No, but if he is re-elected, I will continue to pray for God to use him to lead this country. Whoever the president is, Whatever he or she believes about God he or she needs his (God’s) guidance.
“We have our standards, and if you don’t live up to them/ believe the same as us, we will SHUN YOU!! Unless, of course, political expediency says you can help us out more than the other guy.”
So, do you believe the church practices this form of government or the government practices this form of church.
Shibboleths are a pretty standard, almost natural thing. Politicians, fundies, really all sorts of pharisees do it.
I didn’t complete that thought. Shibboleths are standard, but pragmatism over ideals is also pretty standard, for all pharisees.
Dear Stuff Fundys Like Reader:
Announcing my political affinity aside, I’ve never spoken to my civic convictions here. But I do enjoy watching events through my particular civic lens.
I follow several socialist websites, finding them to be a source of information generally ignored by [dare I say it] the bourgeoisie press.
Darrell’s Sri Lanka tour coincided with that of Detroit’s Socialist Equality Party [Trotskyist] Presidential Candidate, Jerry White.
As Darrell trip was closing [Aug 30], the SEP published two articles which I received side by side in my RSS reader. One reported on Mr. White’s experience and conversations in Sri Lanka.
There was 60 year old estate worker who received 515 rupees [$ 4/day US] IF he worked 21 days a month. Work fewer days [even if because of rain] and the day’s wage reduced to 355 rupees. A rubber worker produced 4 kilos of rubber latex daily. It is valued at 3,200 rupees. But his daily wage is 280 rupees. A woman plantation worker said, ‘we live under the same conditions as our grandparents … whoever has been in power has done nothing to upgrade our lives.’
The other Aug 30 SEP article I received was entitled, ‘Tripling of US Arms Sales.’ With language for which socialists are renowned, the writer showcased the record rise in US arms sales export [66.3 b] saying:
‘This one violently surging sector of American exports reflects a diseased capitalist economy and society, whose financial-corporate elite resorts to militarism as a means of offsetting the overall economic decline of the United States.’
Returning to the report on Jerry White’s Sri Lanka visit, I read again:
‘White said that although there were “more than enough resources” to provide these basic facilities for the entire world population, all economic decisions were taken to serve the interests of richest 1 percent. “As socialists in Sri Lanka and America, we say that wealth should be used to end poverty, to raise the living standards of all workers throughout the world, and to end inequality.”’
1] I’m intrigued at how closely in spirit and content the observations of Darrell and Mr. White coincide.
2] When a Trotskyist party [my membership is in a differing SP] offers a social vision that expresses God’s justice more faithfully than many of our churches, we seriously need to ask if church/state/economic connections have become thoroughly idolatrous.
Thought provoking comment, christian socialist. I have recently concluded that to be a true christian in America means also being a republican. I know there are a few prominent exceptions such as Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis. I believe the republicans know they disparately need these true christians because in the near future our country’s demographics will threaten to serious weaken their party.
As for socialism, back in 2008, I thought it interesting how the conservative and religious media was focusing so much on the evils of socialism and wealth redistribution they tried to associate with Obama. I think they did this because they know the socialist analysis of unfettered free market capitalism has a lot of validity. With the increasing income inequality and declining real wages for the majority of people, more people were going to potentially read about and agree with this analysis. They can demonize the word,”socialist”, all they want, but the truth of the matter is there is a tradition of socialism in our country (Eugene Debs for example). Money and disinformation can do a lot, but eventually people figure things out (hopefully).
That’s some interesting stuff C.S. thank you! Socialism has been demonized a lot in this country. I think this is in large part because people have forgotten how much they did for us in the early 1900′s. They never took power, but they forced the ruling parties to pass workers rights legislation or lose votes and therefore power.
I was telling someone a few years ago how much I appreciated The Grapes of Wrath. It was retorted to me that it was “just socialist propaganda.’ Considering that it was basicly just a description of what happened to people, I find that ironic.
The Jungle and The Grapes of Wrath should be read by everyone IMO.
I feel like this article (and what Don wrote) sums it up:
WOW! Spot on! Thanks for that link!
Good points, there.
Darrell, it occurs to me that there may be no mormons that visit here, some of them would have certainly jumped me by now!
For the record I have several very good mormon friends, and I don’t hold back my opinions about their faith (if asked) I also don’t run to their homes and try to tell them how crazy they are! W/out exception the ones that I know and have known are very moral, family oriented, solid, and good citizens. Romney is a reflection that I see in my friends. I believe him to be a great family man, heck, as far as I can tell so is Obama! But the surface is what we see, even with my friends, and as ex-fundies, that used to be what we all looked at, indeed was preeminient, but we must go past outward appearances, and look twd the heart!
I think I’m rambling and smells like dinner’s ready.
greg – just an observation on my part. You must have an interesting circle of friends. All of the people that you rail against here on SFL (gays, catholics, mormons, calvinists etc.)you always mention that you have “several very good friends” that are *insert offensive group*.
Please let me know if you ever have a BBQ and invite all of them. I would love to see the interaction.
My gay brother in law is at many of our family gatherings. I have a beautiful wreath that has hung over my mantle for 7 years that he gave us, he did the catering at my wedding. My nephew nearly married a wonderful young mormon lady a few years ago. I have mormon friends (whole family) over to the pool all summer long, now we definitely do mix it up at times!
When I was working, I had alot more interaction with catholics. We have a small catholic college in our community, and I made friends with many of the students. I have been invited to several of their graduations!
Didn’t mention calvinists, but one of my very good friend runs a business here in town, when he sees me coming, he pulls out a chair and cup of coffee and it’s on!! Has a wonderful family, I helped get his son on at the PD and he comes out regularly to hear my bluegrass gospel group.
While I’m at it, my two best friends on planet earth are an immigrant (legal ) from Liberia, this guy is purple black! Marvin is about 5″10″ and has five sons, the shortest is 6’4″ The other is an American Indian, and looks it! Bob is the leader of our bluegrass group and I have been with him for 13 years, he also occasionally participates with other Indians in some type of ritualistic drumming, not sure what that’s called. (I want to say on behalf of these two great men that they have helped me immensely in my christian walk, and I will forever be grateful that God saw fit to send these two fine men into my life)
Why these disparate folks and I get along so well? I hope they see the love of Jesus in me. I think folks want you to be real. Even if you disagree with them as long as you are consistent and fair and loving. I think relationships can withstand alot of differences.
If nothing else three years at SFL have certainly proven that if I’m nothing else, I am consistent! for better or worse!
Did I pass?
nothing else, nothing else, nothing else,
Is there an echo in here?
Dish me up some ribs and cole slaw.
Coke or Pepsi, same crap inside.
Well you can’t exactly expect a fundie to vote for a black man can you?
To be honest, I think they would have turned out in droves to vote for Herman Cain.
Well, I know I would have. I’m not a fundy, though, so that doesn’t count.
I’m not concerned about the religion of the candidate. I’m concerned about whether the candidate will follow the rule of law. That’s what matters to me.
I would take Herman Cain over Romney too.
Herman Cain would certainly be an amusing president.
AWWWWWW SCHUCKY DUCKY!
In 2008 many Fundies I know voted for Alan Keyes. They knew he was Catholic and black, but believed in his message. I voted for him in the Georgia Primary in ’08. I voted for Cain this time around. I still like Herman, and enjoy listening to his spots on local radio.
But then, I also have Black Fundy friends, if you can believe that.
Allen Keyes is awesome.
Intrade, today –
Its ok to vote for a Catholic because he might have accidentally done the right thing and actually be ‘saved’ even though he may not know it.
Would the same be true about, say, a Hindu?
(For the record, I don’t think there should be a religious test for public office.)
Big Gary-That was sarcasm.
I am still wondering where Jesus said that Christianity should be imposed on people through politics.
he said it in a vision to Constantine. and Joseph Smith. or something.
^ good one ^
With 23,000,000 people still out of work and millions of people still losing their homes….
I’m voting for the Mormon b/c Obama hasn’t fixed a damn thing.
“If I don’t fix this economy in three years, you have every right to call me former president Obama.” Barack Hussein Obama 2009.
I intend to hold him to his promise.
Many fundies I know are going to write in that whack job Ron Paul.
Are we any better off than we were four years ago?
As an ex-Fundy who is now Catholic, I’m perfectly fine voting for Romney/Ryan. I’m not not voting for Obama because I think he’s a Muslim, I just think he’s out of his depth.
As of today it’s 60 days till Election Day and both me and my liberal friend agree on one thing…we can’t wait for it to get here because we’re both already tired of the campaigning.
The one change I’ve had in my political leanings has been on gay marriage. Since “to sanctify” means “to set apart as holy”, government doesn’t have the authority to sanctify anything, therefore allowing two men or two women to aquire a legal document doesn’t touch the sanctity of marriage.
What does, however, is when a man and woman stand in a church in front of God and everyone, pledge their loyalty to each other, and wind up getting divorced at the same rate as the rest of the world. But even among Fundies, THEIR case is ALWAYS the exception.
Obama= bad because he doesn’t talk about God enough.
Romney= good because he talks about God a lot. (Even though his God lives on a planet named Klobos and in character bears little resemblance to the Christian God of the Bible)
If you think that’s the reason Obama’s bad. . .
Finish your sentence Stephen.
Here I’ll finish it for Stephen…”If you think that’s the reason Obama’s bad, then you must not have been paying attention to his lies about the national debt, his lies about his parents coming together because of Selma AL or the Kennedy Airlift, his lies about transparency in the White House, his lies about C-Span broadcasts of the Healthcare negotioations, his lies about unemployment’s real status, etc…etc…” ad infinitum
Thanks. I’m thick-headed like that.
Nice of you to notice.
Thanks. . .now go repent of your sin of clairvoyancy.
Yes, in my opinion a man’s faith is a private matter between himself and God. The only point at which I need to become concerned is to examine how his faith affects his worldview and his public policy.
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