110 thoughts on “Sex Ed”

    1. It’s FEWER fundies not LESS fundies. Just because you’re not a fundie doesn’t mean your grammar has to mirror theirs. You can have less credibility by making more statements like this one.

        1. :razz:

          My local HEB store* at some point changed the sign on the express check-out lane from “10 items or less” to “10 items or fewer.” But then it put a sign by the cash register that says, “Compare our prices to anyone.” :cry:

          *Howard E. Butt, the son of the founder, changed the firm’s name to his initials from “Butt Grocery Company.” No kidding.

      1. My sarcasm detector is running low on caffeine, so I’m not sure if that was leveled criticism or just witty banter. In either case, though, I guess it’d be petty at this point to call attention to “fundie” (plural form without the “s”) vs. “fundy” (singular form that pluralizes by changing the “y” to “ie” and adding an “s”)? ;)

  1. My parents never breathed a single word to me about sex. None. Even when I got married.
    I embarked on a self-study course though! I frequently drove to another town and went to….ahem…..THAT section of Barnes and Noble.

    1. Apparently, many were trying self-study at BJU too. We got an email or hall meeting or something when they blocked Wikipedia through the campus filters, as several had gotten in trouble for “porn” by trying to look at the sex pages.

      1. Oh that was the real reason? I was told Wikipedia was blocked because of the potential for plagiarism and unsubstantiated sources.

        I should have known better. Why would Wikipedia be more plagiarized than any other information source?

        And why should I have expected the truth? Even in an instructor capacity?

        1. Yes, I seem to recall them giving the unsubstantiated sources claim as the official reason. I was thinking there was a reference to the sex pages though as something we shouldn’t be looking at. I don’t remember. I was a GA at the time, and was bummed because wikipedia was a quick way to look up all the terms and related people and genres in music history class to get a general overview.

    2. My mom gave me a pamphlet, which was too difficult for a little kid to understand. And that was pretty much it from my folks. At school there was a ‘Mother-Daughter Tea’, which turned out to be stale cookies and a film strip on menstruation. I about died of embarrassment. And not another word about the subject, until just before I got married, and Mom shoved a book at me (LaHaye’s _Act of Marriage_, if I remember correctly). I read it. :shock: It was kind of icky. And not especially passionate or romantic.

  2. My parents did better than others, I suspect. My mom had the whole “coming of age” talk with me when I was 9 or 10, and my dad told me the (very) basics about sex a year or so later. That said, I was all about the encyclopedia, lol. Spent a lot of time at the library, too. :razz:

  3. Lol that’s a good illustration. :lol:

    I had a medical encyclopedia which really proved useful in understanding the current subject at hand. :wink:

  4. Dear SFL Reader:

    1] We follow the Bible.
    2] We do stupid stuff.
    3] Therefore we have a great, Christian testimony.

    It makes sense! No?

    Christian Socialist

  5. This is the favorite American form of sex ed– no “ed” at all.

    Americans believe that “Ignorance Is Strength,” and we believe it about nothing so much as sexuality and the human reproductive system.

    1. I admit that my brain is probably hard-wired to be rational. I was a trekie at age 6, and as a youngster was frustrated when my parents wouldn’t give me an answer (or worse, made one up – I could always tell). I think the intentional ignorance stems from a fundamentally flawed worldview – that people are basically good and that knowledge of certain things will lead people to commit great evil. I completely disagree, of course. :smile:

  6. My sex ed was a “hands on” experience with my first girlfriend in the back seat of our 1973 Dodge… Back in the day when cars had big back seats… :twisted:

    1. It seems to me that vast majority of Americans over age 30 learned sex the same way. They were in high school or college and were messing around with a girlfriend or boyfriend. Until 10-15 years ago, there was no Internet with readily accessible and free porn videos. Non-IFB Americans were still uptight and awkward teaching kids about sex. But they still figured it out.

      I’m flabbergasted by stories of IFB college grads who can’t figure it out on their wedding night. I guess I could understand the girl being scared or whatever and needing time to relax. But there was a story on here a couple days ago where the girl called her sister for help on initiating it, and dude still didn’t score. I mean come on, at some level that’s a dysfunction a lot deeper than lack of sex ed.

      1. Well, if all your life you’ve been told that sexual feelings are bad, sooner or later that is ingrained. You can’t expect an instant removal of inhibitions when the ring slides on the finger.

        I was raised fundy/pentecostal. On my wedding night, my husband was too embarrassed, too inhibited, and couldn’t bring himself to tell me what was wrong. We eventually got the deed done, but it was pretty much a mess. He still can’t talk about anything sexual without choking out euphemisms. (We are now divorced, and while that is not the reason for the divorce, I have to say, it sure didn’t help.)

  7. Perhaps if sex wasn’t so taboo and sexual desire wasn’t referred to as your whorish desires…there’d be less of what we’ve been seeing on the news lately. :roll:

    1. It would be if it were about sex, but it’s not. It’s about power. Sex is just one of the many ways to acquire, and to keep, a hold on the worshipers.

  8. Hey gang! I am having fun collaborating with Darrell on this project. Darrell is a clever writer but his stick figures suck!! ;-) I have introduced myself over on the forum. I am positive the ebook will be a good read! Hey maybe it could even be a good “tract” to give to a fundy friend?

    1. At least I know your screen name now, suckah! Imma stalk you.

      Just kidding, I look forward to the drawings…and then perhaps a round or two of some RTS gaming? :mrgreen:

  9. I have a genuine question for all the reformed fundies w/ older kids out there; when do you think is a good time to have this talk with your kids? My kids are very young and already asking questions. I tell them that I will give them an answer when I believe they’re ready to handle it for the moment.

    However, eventually, curiousity will win out, and they’ll go looking for the information. I don’t want them to learn from dubious sources.

    1. I have a 4, 5, and 7 yr old. We answer questions as they ask them, but we answer them in an age-appropriate manner. We also look for teachable moments that aren’t question driven.

      1. Agreed. Obviously as they approach puberty you will need to have conversations even if they don’t initiate them.

        Keep it simple. When they ask questions, sometimes it seems like a huge, complicated issue. Ask them to clarify, because otherwise you may give too complicated an answer to a simple question.

        1. For example, all my kids know that babies grow inside mommy’s belly and come out of her “pee-pee”. That came from a “how do the babies come out of mommy’s belly” question.

          We initiated the conversation on appropriate and inappropriate touching before they asked questions because they were starting school. It was simply a “no one should touch or try to see what is covered by a bathing suit except for the doctor, your parents or your grandparents”. We left it at that (for now).

        2. Ronnie, forgive me for being more than a bit cranky about this, but babies do not come out of a woman’s “pee-pee”. Urine comes out of the urethra, babies come out of the vagina. There are enough people in America who think that women pee, have sex, and push babies out of the same hole; please do not contribute to that with an inaccurate euphemism.

          I use the term “penis” with my 2 year old boy, and were we on the subject of vaginas for some reason, I would use that term as well. It is exceptionally important that children learn these terms at a young age. There is no shame in it. Every expert on preventing child sexual abuse recommends it.

          Done with my rant. Thank you for humoring me.

        3. Therein lies my problem though. I answer the questions too. The problem is that my boy is very smart and knows how to ask questions even being as young as he is. He knows that babies grow in women and where they come out. He then asks how they get there. We tried the evasive but technically true answers to that question, “God makes them for mommies and daddies.”

          However, ever the detective, when someone lets slip that someone’s ‘dad’ isn’t in the picture, many more questions follow. The kid is inquisitive (something I love) hence the dilemma.

        4. If he’s that inquisitive, tell him. You could do it in a way that is correct without being over his head. Daddy “plants” a seed in mommy (if you want to tell him how, go for it) and that seed grows into a baby.

          (Of course, I have no idea what age you are talking about. If we are talking 4 or 5, I would handle it this way. If we are talking 8, definitely explain it in more detail. You want him to be willing to come to you for the answers instead of trying to find out on his own.)

        5. Add me in on the “proper terminology” bench. Boys have penises and testicles. Girls have vulvas and vaginas. Using cutesy terms just isn’t cute to me, and I can’t for the life of me understand why so many people are so uncomfortable with the actual names of their body parts and so remarkably ignorant about what’s what (in reference to people thinking women urinate out of their vaginas — and I’ve heard a lot who do).

        6. I’m one of those who can’t for the life of me figure out why the default assumption for anatomical nicknames is because of “shame” or “[dis]comfort” with the ‘appropriate’ (whatever that means) terminology.

          I also for the life of me can’t figure out why someone would try to lay a guilt/fear trip on someone else who choose to do so by saying ‘you doing that will likely result in your kids being sexually assaulted’.

        7. Seriously?!? I’ve never heard of anyone thinking women urinate from their vaginas!

          Back on topic: when I was pregnant and my young daughter asked how the baby would get out, I told her he would pop out when he was ready. Surprisingly, she totally accepted that and never asked for further clarification.

        8. @Ronnie, show me, please, where I said anything at all about sexual assault. No one is putting guilt on you. I stated my opinion. Last time I checked, that was still acceptable. If not, please have the blog owner remove my comment. I’m sure he’ll gladly oblige you.

        9. PP – it was mostly directed at Carla. The particular part of your post that I noticed was…

          …why so many people are so uncomfortable with the actual names of their body parts [that they use cutesy names]…

        10. @Ronnie, as regards the ‘planting a seed’ explanation: This may cause other problems. Someone told me when I was about 5 that the daddy plants a seen in the mommy’s tummy. I wanted a baby, so I got some seeds out of the garden shed and tried poking one into my belly button, and my friends’ belly buttons. The adults freaked out when they found out. I was ashamed but I didn’t know why. I think I ended up in a worse place than I started.

    2. I remember being aware of the word “sex” around 8. I wanted to know, but then I didn’t want to *know* because it sounded kind of scary/gross. By the time I was 12 I figured it out and was indifferent as it just seemed to make sense given our anatomy. My Mom never gave me “the talk” and it always made her feel unapproachable when I had legitimate questions. My little sister is now 12 and she is so ready for the talk. I think it’s good to give honest, but not totally divulging answers when they’re younger, and then when they’re 12 & beginning to see changes in their body is a good time to talk more about it and revisit it in a couple years to talk about what God has to say about sex and how it is really special.
      I think talking about it in a loving way, reminding your children how loved & precious they are and this is something God has a purpose for is good. Whenever sex was talked about in my youth group it was insanely negative & we were made to feel like animals for having curiousity. Poor things, raging with hormones & receiving no guidance… No wonder we had so many pregnancies & STDS in our school. :sad:

      1. STDs in high school? What? Where were they getting them. Someone older (and with shady sex partners) was introducing it into the high school.

    3. Our approach was that if they are asking questions, they deserve answers. (We don’t remember our parents giving us any info.)

      Visits to the zoo and the fair seemed to generate questions…those usually got a “let’s talk about this later”…unless we could discuss quietly without offending others by our honesty.

      We only answered the question that was asked and tried to answer at the level of understanding of the child,then if there were follow-up questions we would use the dictionary, or other reference materials as needed.
      It was not always easy…there was embarrassment as some things were explained, but we tried to be as matter-of-fact as we could.

      We also always used the ‘correct’ anatomical terms for all body parts. No cutesy ambiguous names.

      My older son is majoring in Biology with a pre-med emphasis. He plans to work in Emergency Medicine.
      My younger son intends to major in Biology with an environmental science emphasis. He plans to then go on to get a Masters in Zoology.

      So their questions and our answers appear to have had a focus in the long-run.

    4. The consensus these days seems to be that you should answer children’s questions honestly (and yes, using correct anatomical terms), but you don’t necessarily need to answer questions they haven’t asked.

      I was afraid to ask my parents questions about sex, though. Looking back, I think they would have answered any questions I asked them (to the extent that they knew the answers), but somehow I had gotten the message that sex is shameful and forbidden and never to be spoken about. I don’t know where I got this idea. I don’t remember my parents or anyone else specifically saying so. But this was the 1960s and 70s, when frank discussions of sex weren’t on TV and radio and everywhere else you look, and the idea was in the air that it was dirty and should never be brought up.

    5. I have to agree with Clara. Vagina is not a dirty word. It’s an anatomical part of a woman’s body. Vagina, vagina, vagina. It’s ok to say it. My toddler calls it that because that’s what it is.

      Feminist rant over :)

      1. MKXcomm,

        I remember when my Mom informed me, of the correct name for my body part, I was around the age of 9 or 10. I felt like such a big girl now knowing the Scientific Term. I never once felt dirty about it and I was grateful for her honesty. :)

        V.

    6. I prefer an open, honest, ongoing age-appropriate dialogue as opposed to a big sit-down talk. I’d like to think, that I’m saving my kids that awkward moment of, “Oh, geez, I’m talking sex with my mom!”

      As to when: As soon as they’re old enough to talk and start discovering their own bodies. I don’t mean that they need in-depth discussions on sex; they just need to understand that it’s a normal, natural part of life and not some secretive or dirty thing.

  10. I am trying to remember if I ever had to “tell” my kids where babies come from… We have always had someone in the family or our circle of friends who was either having a baby or had just had one. In our household, it was never a big secret where babies were or even how they “got out of there”. We never really went into detail about how they got in there though. But fortunately we do own a television and I am pretty sure they have enough of an idea of that. All that stuff is not so frightning if you just take it as a normal natural part of life.

  11. I remember the 5 year old daughter of a friend explaining it this way:
    “When a mommy and a daddy love each other, they have a special kiss and God sometimes makes a baby grow inside the mommy…”
    I thought that was pretty cute and appropriate for the age that she was.

    1. That is sweet, but I’d probably go with “do a special thing” instead of “kiss.” Five year olds know what kisses are, and kisses don’t make babies happen, despite what the administrations of various fundamentalist colleges would have us believe.

  12. For being Fundy, my mom was incredibly open about sex. We knew we could ask any question to her. She just about spit her coffee one morning when my brother asked her about how to pierce a penis. I’ve never seen her laugh so hard in my life. I always thought that she handled it very well – she told us what we needed to know about any situation without making a big deal out of it. It was very refreshing.

      1. Ha! I posted then realized you ended with “very refreshing.” :smile: I attribute this oversight to my reading-comprehension skills learned at Hammond Baptist Grade School. :lol: :lol:

    1. Penis Piercing: An Idea Whose Time Has Come!

      Dear formerHACgirl:

      In the process of ‘saving’ fundamentalism, you have created a great, business idea. The product line called ‘Loving Hardware’ or perhaps ‘Baptist Jewelry.’

      The premise is that all male children should be equipped with penis piercing hardware. This could be done on the 8th day, or whenever the child is circumcised. At that time, a ring could be installed on the kid’s butt. A chain would link the butt ring to the penis piercing, which would be secured with a small locking device. Mom keeps the key until her son is married, when she surrenders the key to his bride.

      In the mean time, this device could significantly curtail unauthorized erections and masturbation. Just as importantly, it could be used as a disciplinary measure. Any time the kid started squirming in church, Dad or Mom can give him the look that says, ‘you stop now or I’ll give your chain a heck of a yank!’ Believe me, that kid will know what that look means!

      Hannah’s annual gift coat for Samuel gives a pretext for replacing the chain with a longer upgrade as the kid grows. Parents can now let their kids date with relative assurance that they will not disgrace the family honor – not that it would have much anyway.

      Speaking of honor, this arrangement would keep daughters in relative safety as preachers move through their church constituents. Had Jack Schaap’s ‘Baptist Jewelry’ been in place, he would be preparing a Sunday sermon rather than reading the Inmate’s Manual. Can you truly be a fundamentalist without being secured with Baptist Jewelry?

      I can’t believe that no one thought of ‘harnessing’ preachers in Baptist Jewelry earlier. Loving Hardware keeps us all eternally secure.

      Christian Socialist

      PS: Imagine if brother timed his question with mom’s gulp of coffee …

  13. We sat down with our boys when they we six and told them all there was to know including body parts and functions. For whats its worth, we were very open about this subject and my boys are grown and still waiting for that special one to share that experience with. Corny? Maybe. But I’m proud of their stance for abstinence.

  14. I asked my mother where babies came from. She thought I said “rabies” and she said “Dog bites”.
    Later that year the next door neighbor had twins. I thought she was bitten by our Saint Bernard

  15. LOLOLOL! This made my day, and I must say that the stork looks a little like a pterodactyl. That gives me an idea – have the next installment of “Fundamental Flaws” be a strip about dinosaurs living among men! This would be a great satire of fundy creationism. :)

    1. The current orthodoxy among biologists is that birds are actually dinosaurs. It was only the “non-avian dinosaurs” that all died out about 70 million years ago.

  16. At the IFB school I attended in West Palm Beach, Florida in the late 1980s, we had separate Bible classes for 7-8 grade boys, 9-12 grade boys, 7-8 grade girls, and 9-12 grade girls. The principal would come in and speak with us once a week (in the 9-12 grade boys), and his wife taught the 9-12 girls.

    I remember him commenting once on the sin of masturbation, and that if you looked too long at your own body in the mirror, you might be gay. I also remember one of the girls passing out in the 9-12 grade bible class while watching a graphic video about abortion. (The boys never got to watch that video.)

    When I attended an IFB school in rural western Kentucky in 1986, after the pastor’s son got into a fight with another boy over a girl, the pastor decided that the entire student body should be taught a lesson: students were no longer allowed to speak to students of the opposite sex while on school/church property, and we all had a week of silent lunch. Two weeks after this sexual apartheid began, the pastor had been run out of the church, leaving vacancies in the history and Bible teacher posts (the pastor), and the science teacher post (the pastor’s wife.) And that’s as close as we got to sex education at that school.

    On the homefront, at the age of 12, I was given a book by my mother (how embarrassing) titled “The Wonderful Way That Babies Are Made”, which was long on watercolor illustrations and poetry, but short on meaningful information or facts.

    After high school, I would say the best IFB sex ed I got was Hugh Pyle’s column in the SOTL. (I think Beka later published his sex ed book.) You might not have learned what was right, but you definitely learned what was wrong.

  17. My experience was just fooling around as a teen. My children though….
    Raising them in a Fundy Church my wife and I told them babies were something you got when you got married. This worked ok until they attended their first wedding. As soon as the ceremony was over they wanted to know where the baby was.

  18. My mom always told me that my husband would teach me, but insisted that I marry a virgin… It’s no wonder I’ve heard so many stories about girls freaking out on their wedding nights. There is so much shame and ignorance with sex in the IFB, it sets couples up for failure.

        1. Yes, I figured it out :) I married a good man :) But with so much shame attached to sex, I didn’t start reveling in it until I had a bout a year of therapy and 4 years out of fundystan.

  19. Dear SFL Readers:

    Might the weird sex stuff be how some folk exorcise their sexual demons — i.e., by projecting them on their progeny?

    Christian Socialist

  20. I was told the facts from a book my mother gave me to read. It had two daisies that talked to each other and told how it was wonderful and special once a girl started her period.

    ^%$##@#$ flowers lied.

    It was not wonderful. It was not special. It was disgusting and messy. I have never trusted flowers since then.

  21. Every time I hear about this kind of non-education, my mind goes to an unfunny place. This is a true story, told to me with tears.

    Girl likes boy. Boy likes girl. Girl and boy are best friends forever. But girl and boy are both from families that confuse ignorance with innocence, and they have never heard the word “puberty.” They know that a girl who has sex is ruined for life, but they don’t have a clue what sex is outside snickering stories told in school bathrooms. (This was before the World Wide Web.)

    Preteen girl and boy are alone together in her mother’s backyard while she talks with his mother over tea. They like to lie down in the shade together and talk and dream. But something has changed. They’re snuggling. And this feels good and this and this . . . And when they get up again, they’re not virgins anymore.

    They are silent as he puts on his coat to go home with his mother. The next day, at school, he can’t look at her without crying, because he found out from somebody somewhere that doing that is sex and he has ruined his best friend for life. She will never be a real woman now and nobody will ever love her. Their friendship crumbles under the weight of his guilt. Girl stops smiling, stops enjoying life, spends a lot of time alone in her room staring at the walls, because she’s a bad person now, unfit to be around people.

    One day, while loitering down the hallway, she overhears her mother talking with somebody over tea. The friend comments on girl’s broodiness recently. Could it perhaps be . . . boy trouble? Girl’s mother laughingly replies that girl is too young to think about that kind of thing for years yet.

    Seven years afterward, telling this story with tears, girl still has not breathed a word to her mother about why she stopped playing with boy. In fact, she never tells her mother anything near to her heart, ever.

    1. “confuse ignorance with innocence” THIS THIS THIS!!

      My mother always delighted in the thought of presenting us chaste and clueless to our husbands. She loved that we had no idea how the world worked. That kind of ignorance forced on kids only delays the natural progression of development and makes for some really awkward people in their teens and twenties. I get angry thinking about such a normal thing being robbed from me. And all of the years that it has taken to undo the twisted guilt in my head from my mother’s “virginity propaganda.”

  22. Probably too late for anyone to read this, but I was away from my computer yesterday. Our youth pastor was pretty normal about sex for a fundie, but his wife was PSYCHO. My wife grew up in our church too and she told me that the youth pastors wife once taught a girls-only session that modesty rules don’t cease to apply just because you get married. Thus, you must be modest before your husband just like any other man. She said that she and her husband were married for “several years” before he ever say her unclothed.

    Aaaaand, they only had two kids. Hmmmm.

    1. I’ve heard that before. I believe it was at that point that it occurred to me that marrying a girl who bought into the fundie bullcrap might be a really, really bad idea. :shock:

  23. At FundyU we learned a lot about sex when we filled out the questionaire for blood donation.
    ” Are you a man who has ever had sex with a man who was paid for sex …”
    What? People DO that!?!?

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