132 thoughts on “Legacy”

    1. You know, if that other person were a long-haired young man, this could almost be a statue for gay marriage. Hmmm, have there ever been homosexual Fundamentalists? Or is that on the level of pigs growing wings?

        1. You think god is the one who screams about homosexuality the most Greg? Surely you’re joking.

        2. @scorpio

          While all Hitler, Stalin, and Nazi references result in an automatic loss in the debate world, all timely Airplane references result in an automatic win. Congratulations!

        3. As far as I know God is still the only one that destroyed entire cities for the sin of homosexuality, and to my knowledge He has issued no apologies. So if you don’t like that, please take up your concerns with Him.

        4. It seems that Fundamentalists are more likely to forgive a man for having sex with a large number of underage girls than for having sex with another man, even once… and since Fundamentalists claim to speak for God, we cannot question the assumption that God feels the same way. Schaap may be a pedophile, but at least he’s not a GAY one…. πŸ‘Ώ

      1. Of course there have been (homosexual fundamentalists), and still are. They just stay in the closet. Occasionally they get “outed” and are forced to leave the Bible colleges they teach at.

      1. I was just thinking when I saw that the face looks nothing like her. She was a VERY lovely and lady-like woman. He never deserved her. Well, that’s my opinion. She was very sweet (at least as much as I knew of her)

        1. There’s a theory that less competent artists portray the people they paint with their own features. Maybe this would explain why the faces look similar. Bronze statues of people in contemporary clothes generally look pretty naff anyway.

    1. I was thinking the same thing about PCC. I wish there was a way to know which IFB college was going to get the biggest boost in applications after this.

      And I’m also wondering…is HAC going to survive this? If so, how long? Shall we set the over/under at 10 years?

        1. I had to memorize it in either 7th or 8th grade. The ABeka spelling books had poems at the back which you were supposed to memorize, and this was one of them. It was one of the poems I later chose for my students to memorize when I became an English teacher.

        2. the likelihood of someone quoting Shelley is directly proportional to their blood alcohol content – Darrell? Did you have a couple shots last night?

        3. I enjoyed Ozymandias, and have used lines from it since I had to memorize it sometime in the mid-late seventies. I have been surprised at some of the other poems from the back of the Abeka spelling book that still come to mind occasionally,

        4. Very fitting caption and mouse-over.
          I learned that poem when I was in the 5th or 6th grade (my mom decided to read it to us one day), and it has stuck with me ever since.

        5. Actually to Yet Another Jean:

          Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin might have been surprised to learn that, seeing that she and Shelley had an affair that resulted in a child born out of wedlock, and three others during their eventual marriage.

      1. I don’t know–I learned “Ozymandias” in a public high school English class. It and Robert Frost’s “Fire and Ice” are burned into my brain from that class. Of course, I graduated from high school in 1965, so memorizing poetry may have been replaced by something else by now.

      2. 1989 PS graduate; I got “Ozymandias” in 5th grade IIRC, and by the end of senior year I had read so many poets I would have to scroll down to type them all in here. Has NCLB changed this?

      3. We read “Ozymandias” in my public school, too.

        And Shelley, by the way, was a flaming heterosexual. The most cursory examination of his biography makes that clear.

        1. What would you do-oo-oo for a Klondike bar?

          Would you drive to another state?

          They’re so yummy!

          Now I’m just rubbing it in!

        2. If I remember correctly, I’d have to cross a lot of states. I think my daughter is a little north of you, I’ll have her pick mine up for me.

        3. ummmm, crossing state lines for a Klondike Bar…. Sounds like a good defense strategy for you-know-who. “Your honor we only went to Illinois for a, a, a Klondike bar. Yeah that’s it, we went for a Klondike bar. What would you do for a Klondike bar your Honor?”

        4. Don, I rename thee Don Diablo! How dare you besmirch my most honorable intentions! I was only going to cross state lines to…umm…errr…uuuhhh….make sure that no one else would do any harm to the Klondike Bar in question. My intentions were honorable, right up to the point the Devil made me do it. (with apologies to Flip Wilson– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLifea3NHQ)

  1. I once walked into a church and was met with life sized portraits of the Pastor and his wife. I thought that was too much…this is just…I can’t even….words fail me.

  2. I keep seeing 15,000 seats in auditorium at FBCH or 15,000 in attendance on Sundays. Then, a news report from last night mentions only 1000 in attendance. I’ve been there once and don’t see how 15,000 is anywhere close to accurate. Maybe 7500? Does anyone know the real truth on the numbers?

    1. I don’t know the actual numbers, but they do have “the world’s largest Sunday School” so I suppose a lot of that number could be bus kids. A lot of small IFB churches in our area have done that for years: claimed they have 200 members when 165 of them are actually children being bussed in.

    2. (1) They are liars. (Thank you, Dr. Fundystan.)
      (2) As all good IFBers know, only the TRUELY ACTUALLYT TRUE FOR REAL CHRISTIANS WHO ARE TRULY SAVED AND TRULY ARE CHRISTIAN Christians attend Wednesday night. That is why airings of the church’s dirty laundry always take place, if at all, at that service. Usually, MOST of the Wed. night gang are loyal enough that their dedication to the church can survive whatever horrendous revelations are made at the Wed. evening “prayer” service.

    3. I think the number figure comes from all services on church owned property for the entire weekend, not all at once. The main auditorium is set up to seat 7500.

  3. I see the party is dying down already?? I went to Detroit last weekend, and saw a statue of some guy who was mayor, I think, and then ascended to some higher position. I didn’t see anybody bowing down to it, I don’t think it’s customary at Abraham Lincoln’s memorial either. I never noticed anybody bowing down to the Hyles memorial. I do honor people, hold them in high regards, like my parents.
    There are issues within IFB churches, and this could be a good place to address them, but being ridiculous isn’t going to help anybody. Too bad.

    1. Yes that’s a good point. Since Nebuchadnezzar, the world’s leaders have glorified themselves in statues and the like. How completely opposite of the teachings of Christ! He specifically commanded us – especially leaders – to be the opposite. I hadn’t thought of it before, but you are exactly right. The Hyles cult behaves just like a secular mayor or other politician. How sad.

    2. I don’t think anybody thinks people are literally bowing down to the statue. Very little kneeling or bowing is done in the IFB, sometimes at the front of the church during the invitation but even then in my churches people usually just sat on the front pew.

      The issue is the attitude of man-worship there that is epitomized by raising a statue, not bowing or praying but idolizing, exalting, praising, and refusing to think that he could ever be wrong.

      1. Or if presented with irrefutable evidence that he was wrong, giving excuses that “explain” why such a great man of God stumbled and extending forgiveness and the benefit of the doubt to him in a way done for no one else.

      2. PW, that may be true, but in the Baptist megachurches that I had the misfortune to attend, I always felt like the kneeling and bowing at the front was directed at least as much to the preacher as it was to God. Smaller congregations generally take a more humble approach, as you say, although even in the dinky IFB church of my childhood we would frequently have “everyone in the church come to the altar” invitations where the sole purpose seemed to be reassuring the pastor that we were all giving his latest crazy sermon our vote of full confidence.

  4. Poor Beverly Hyles was actually an attractive lady…that statue makes her look like a cross-dresser. If I were her, I would hate that statue for aesthetic reasons alone!

  5. Templewoman, mayors and presidents aren’t pastors who claim to lift up Christ. They are under no obligation to deflect glory from themselves.

    Men of God who are truly humble (and I do know a few) would be repulsed by the idea of any sort of shrine to themselves. They would insist that Christ be the one to be honored and glorified.

    They should be held to a different standard than statesmen or war heroes.

  6. The statues seem poorly executed and cheap. The resemble Ken and Barbie dolls rather than real people. Where’s the detail that go into well-crafted works of art?

      1. To me what it looks like is one of those tacky bronzes that you see on news footage of North Korea, or Turkmenistan, or Pre-War Iraq, or the former Soviet Union. I lived in Moscow for a year, and tacky poorly-executed statutes of former dictators were legion. Post-commie government got in on the act too. Along the river across from the Kremlin there is an absolutely horrid bronze statue of a blobby man in a blobby boat that was supposed to be Christopher Columbus but when the American city that ordered it rejected the monstrosity, Moscow’s mayor bought it from the “artist” and recommissioned it as . . . Peter the Great! Ta-da!

        1. Interesting about the scuptures in Moscow. The statues on the walls and the portals of the newly rebuilt Cathedral of Christ the Savior in downtown Moscow are beautifully crafted. The only misfortune is that the statues were supposed to be crafted in marble (as with the original cathedral) instead of bronze.

      1. WCBC is just as bad, they are just more savvy to the need to paint on a thin veneer of being hip to all things worldly. It’s currently my parents’ bible college of choice for my siblings . . . thank God I had the chance to go to a real college before my family really descended into fundiedom. However, from what my siblings who go there tell me, it’s just as bad as any other Bible college out there. 😑

        1. Transfer to Golden State (I went there)?! Where Jack Trieber sent away his youth pastor brother-in-law when he got a teen girl pregnant, didn’t report anything to authorities, convinced the family “he would handle it” and then brought the brother-in-law back in to the fold when the statute of limitations was exceeded. Oh well… then they’ll feel right at home. 😯 πŸ™„

    1. ???? All of these Baptist colleges named are legalistic, outward-appearance, majoring-in-the-minors pieces of crap. They kicked one of the sweetest girls I know out of GSBC for kissing a boy. What?? And people wonder why Baptist children grow up to be perverted? The whole IFB mindset is based on weakness, immaturity, and fear.

  7. I wonder how Paul would have felt about one of the churches he planted raising a statue in his honor.

    If they ever did pull off such a stunt, that statue would look much different than the smiling suit that this statue is.

    1. People have erected a number of statues and other monuments to Paul. In Erie, PA, the Episcopal Cathedral is St. Paul’s; the Roman Catholic Cathedral is St. Peter’s; and one of the local Russian Orthodox churches is SS. Peter and Paul.

      Paul probably had an inkling that his epistles would later be canonized by the Church even though he had no knowledge of the future Council of Nicea.

  8. If the expose of Jack Hyles by Robert Sumner years ago was true…..then according to the word of GOD, which enables us to know what a true believer in Christ is and is not…….Jack Hyles was NOT a Christian and is currently in hell awaiting the resurrection of the wicked. Very sobering, but GOD is holy, and unholy men will only meet Him in judgement.

  9. Am I the only person to think that this monstrosity is completely pointless because Jack Schaap always came accross like a badly executed monument to himself?

      1. Sorry Something weird is happening here. I made a comment about Schaap when I meant to say Hyles, but it didn’t some through. I meant to ask if statues to Fundy preachers such as Schaap or Hyles are a waste of time and total redundant because most come across as badly executed monuments to themselves anyway

    1. Perhaps it was funded by scamming even more pennies from bus kid “offerings.” And then they would have put up a tacky plaque, saying something like “paid for by the millions of pennies donated by grateful bus children.” GAG!

      1. Deacon son wrote:
        “And then they would have put up a tacky plaque, saying something like β€œpaid for by the millions of pennies donated by grateful bus children.””

        That is how “The Flock” came to be “The Fleeced”

        1. They sold “Bricks” in the courtyard to fund the statue as I recall. I THINK they were 50 or 100 bucks each and they are all over HAC now. Oh gosh, it’s been years since i left that place. No regrets! ❗

    1. How about if you pray for the victim? And her famiy? I mean, she’s the child who got seduced by a man in power an authority, whom she had been taught to revere as second only to Jesus Christ Himself. Now this young girl has to wake up to realizing he never loved her. He lied to her. He used for sex, and now he’s throwing her (or thrown her) away. And she has to live with that for the rest of her life. At 17.

      She deserves our prayers and compassion way more than that perverted apostate devil does.

      Why don’t you FBCers just help yourselves to one great big clue? I have yet to see anybody who talks about praying for Schaap say one word for his poor victim.

      1. I have to say…the victim is the main one hurt here, but his family deserves prayer as well. Not because he was innocent, but because they have to face this kind of betrayal from him. Their husband and father broke the relationship he was supposed to have with his own family in favor of this perversion of a relationship.

        That said, the only prayers I’d say for Jack Schaap are that he repents. And stays out of any and all leadership positions.

  10. It’s not very shiny. I think that is a poor testimony. Most of the metalwork that goes into fundie decor is fake shiny yellow (e.g., the weird quotations on the walls of Crown College’s church; the big gold world in the lobby of SW Baptist Church that spins). You would think that Hyles would want to set a good example. Shame, shame, shame. (Actually, George wanted me to type “shame, shame, sham” which would be an appropriate sentiment also.)

    1. 7. If your date gets physical with you, don’t deceive yourself into thinking that they were not physical with someone before you and will not be physical again with someone after you. Just a few days ago, my wife and I were counseling a lovely young teenage girl. She had gotten physically involved with a young man who had told her she was “the only one.” I cautioned the girl that there was a very good possibility that he was not being truthful and that there might very well be other girls in his past. She assured me there were none.

      Recently this girl came to me crying, “You were right, Brother Schaap, I’m not the only girl he kissed and hugged. He lied to me, and I feel emotionally raped.”

      You see, he had broken God’s command to stay pure, making it easier for him to break God’s command to be honest.

      I don’t care what words of loyalty and devotion he feeds you; if he wants your hugs and kisses badly enough, he’ll lie to get them.

      Perhaps you girls have been told to pull off your shoe and hit your date with a sharp high heel if he becomes aggressive. This may work, but may I suggest that you begin your dating with the comment that you are very close to your father, and that you tell him everything that happens on a date. That was my wife’s technique, and it worked well for her.

      1. What a sex-obsessed pervert! Did it ever occur to him that everyone has a first time? It is not necessarily true that if a girl’s date tries something with her that he has done it with other girls. But by putting sick thoughts in the minds of girls he poisons their minds against all single men. Notice how he carefully grooms girls to assume that married Christian men are the only males they can truly trust and confide in.

      2. The whole thing is full of irony. I wonder if he looked at the current victim and said this to her? In theory, this means there are other victims before her, and victims after her.

        Of course, I don’t *know* that. It’s simply ironic. And given the years and years of precedence, it’s silly that he actually thought he could define others’ lives, at the same time having an “affair” with a young female(s), and get away with it.

        When I first saw the announcement, I know my jaw hit the floor. This is too much. I don’t think anyone could make up a scenario so vile as this.

      3. Wow. This tells me he’s been grooming his victims far sooner than I could’ve ever imagined! πŸ™ πŸ˜₯ πŸ˜₯
        May God bring this all to light for His glory!

  11. I hate this for the body of Christ, for FBCH, for the Schaap family, and the victim and her family. But I can’t help but wonder did Schaap think he could get away with it, because he saw Hyles get away scott free for all those years?
    Does this just kill Beverly Hyles knowing from personal experience what her daughter is going through? Does she regret that she kept silent and stayed with Hyles “for the sake of the ministry”?
    One last thought, Isn’t it ironic that both of Hyles’ closest boys- his son, Dave and his son-in-law Schaap were both brought down by photos of their horrific actions?
    Again, there is nothing good that can come out of a situation like this. My prayer is that God will bring healing to those who are innocently affected by this.

    1. Nothing good? I would think purging sin would be a good thing. Preventing a predator from finding new victims is good. Teaching our children to learn from this is good. Examining our own hearts is good. Calling sin sin is good. Retribution for the victim(s) is good.

      1. Tammy-
        Point well taken. You are right in your reply to my post. I was referencing the personal side. However you are correct in referencing the spiritual and even legal side of it.

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