594 thoughts on “Breaking Free: Linda Hyles Murphrey Speaks At TEDxOjaiChange”
First
So I’ve seen a few people on this Jack Schaap matter on different blogs/websites say things like “Well, I know this….” or “this will come out…” I don’t hold much weight on those but I can tell you this, you can believe what I’m saying. You know the story that came out in the media about the deacon finding the picture/s?? That was a lie and is false. Jack was caught by someone else (2 protect those I will not divulge who) but I promise, this is true. Schaap threatened this individual. Things happened (which I will not say) and in the end, Jack tried to come back and re-take the reins but a ton of unknown evidence was shown and then he admitted guilt, you may not believe this but it is true.
I believe it.
I believe you, Not Jeff Owens, but I would sure like to know more details about how it happened.
Waiting patiently for the mug shot and perp walk…
Waiting impatiently… and wanting a reason to start believing in justice again 🙁
first loser!
Firsties.
What a wonderful lady. Do you think there’s any hope of her being able to help her sister?
Or would have been first if George hadn’t slowed my connection down so much…
What an interesting question, Bella!
Several of us had noticed before the quiet desperation that Mrs. Jack Schaap seems to exude. For example, in this clip: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/06/christian-womanhood-follow-up/comment-page-1/#comments
Somehow it’s reminiscent of those ransome videos that hostages are forced to make– you know, the ones where they say “Please do everything the nice kidnappers tell you to do.”
Big G, the first clip contains an interesting oblique reference to Linda’s departure. Amazing how they will whitewash even something like that. (But also noteworthy that Cindy makes clear that when her sisters moved away they were no longer her friends.)
Yes, I noticed those oblique references to her sisters getting the blazes out of the Hyles cult. You are absolutely right.
Which is why, to me, the whole “Cindy and Jack are in isolation working on their marriage” seems so sinister to me. PLEASE, please, someone get her to a real, genuine, qualified counsellor. And get her away from that monster and go spend some time with her sister. Away from everything. Time to be herself. Time to think. Time to breathe. Time to grow.
My heart is so broken for that woman and I just pray she gets some help now.
Could I be first?
Your username is awesome! (I’m a big fan of terry Pratchett)
Or would have been if my name wasnt so long!
(can’t even look at the vidio until I get home from work)
This is so powerful. And finally, someone confirms Vic Nischik’s accusations.
Listening in the background right now, riveting..
This was just great. I knew her in college (not well). She was so sweet and quiet (and always looked terrified). I am SO GLAD she got out and is doing so well. 😀
That was powerful. Thank you for posting this.
What an incredibly brave woman! You don’t just walk away from that kind of brainwashing and abuse. I can’t imagine what a frightening and wrenching struggle it must have been to break free from that kind of indoctrination.
Thanks for posting this video. It needs to be broadcast as much as possible.
Bless you, Linda. You are loved.
It is good to have confirmation from within the home.
This is a rather compelling talk, in light of recent and not-so-recent events.
I find Linda Murphrey credible on the whole, although she may be exaggerating some points. For example, I can’t believe that First Baptist Church of Hammond ever really had 50,000 members at any one time, unless they were counting everyone Hyles ever looked at as a member.
I thought that number was high, too. But, maybe she’s talking about the people who’ve been through the church and the schools through the years. Loyal HAC grads are in the cult, too, even if they aren’t in the area.
In all honesty, I think that is some of the residue of the lies and manipulation that took place in her household. She heard the number 50,000 somewhere along the line, and it stuck in her head. She never ran the numbers herself. Who do you think was more likely to throw that huge, unbelievable number out there, this questioning daughter or the “story-teller” Jack Hyles?
Big Gary,
I believe the number was close to 50,000 in Jack Hyles days but I doubt it is now–think they are counting all of the attendance of their “missionary teams”–but back in the day of J. Hyles I was on bus routes, and there was A,B,C,D,E, and F Sunday Schools so I can buy the number during Hyles time and I think that is where her mind was coming from.
There is also the tendency to count everybody baptized, even if they were never seen again. I am quite familiar of Baptist churches with membership of 3000-5000, and attendance of 200.
Certain churches, including Baptists, are notorious for inflating their membership rolls. That’s one of the reasons I doubt the 50,000 figure.
Also, an active membership of 50,000 would make it by far the largest local church in North America, and, despite what its members may be told, it just doesn’t have that kind of presence, even in the Chicago area. My Chicago friends and relatives have never heard of it.
Lloyd is right. Baptism made you an automatic member. Since they baptised lines of people every service, week after week, I can see the number being this high. But that would not be the accurate number for regular attenders. But when Jack Hyles was there, it was a pretty large group of people. Just not all there at once.
I never did like that baptism makes you a member now. My fundy lite church did this with my husband who wasn’t baptized yet and he didn’t like it. Next thing your know, they are manipulating you to clean the church so they can save money.
Then we heard, “you need to help pain this church since we are doing your wedding!” Are you freaking kidding me?!
Wow – the depth and extent of Jack Hyles’ depravity and evil goes beyond what I could have imagined. One can’t help but hurt for Cindy at this point, but maybe she can finally get away.
A very powerful video. My grandparents weren’t as bad as her parents – but my mom talks about the family at church and the family at home. It was my grandma that ruled the kingdom. All in the name of Jesus!
I thought I knew what went on but it turns out I only knew a tiny bit. Wow.
I hope her message reaches those who are on the edge wondering if they should walk away or not. You can make it through to the other side and be ok. Just walk toward the light….
I want to reach out and hug this woman. It’s such a beautiful thing to see how far she has come from that prison. And so admirable that she doesn’t blame Christianity, or Baptists, or the church members or even the IFB. I am not saying that the church members at FBC or the IFB movement are faultless; however, she is telling her personal story and I think it was very classy of her to keep the blame in her own family in this speech.
And I had to watch tl the end of the video for confirmation that she was wearing pants. She looks so modest and feminine. It’s a wonderful and rare thing when someone can leave a situation like the Hyles cult without going 180 degrees in the opposite direction (wearing ultra-immodest clothes as a reaction to the way they were brought up).
I hope she is finally wearing what she likes to wear, instead of trying to prove anything with her clothes.
Well said.
Awesome talk! And confirms, from w/in the compound, many of the rumors that have swirled around for years. Hard to imagine growing up like that. What a gracious lady. May God richly bless her.
Admission: I’m not at a computer right now that can play videos and therefore have not seen a second of this video.
But I saw this video at another site and I am in shock that the posters are saying how “bitter” this person is and how “deluded” she is to dare say anything was not quite right? They are calling her delusional and a liar. The kook-aid drinking abilities of some is nothing short of beyond description.
I know it’s ridiculous to think that anyone would make those kinds of comments to a story like this, but yet, I wonder how many of us were able, as we watched this, to predict the exact response from the IFB crowd, almost word-for-word, including all the poisonous “bitterness” and “gossip” and “strong delusion to believe a lie” bullcrap. 🙁
Let’s hope her sister, Cindy is not one of those saying she is lying. I’m sure that up until the last 14 days she was still towing the Hyles’ line.
Wow. Incredible story. Would love to hear more from her.
so while the haters might view this post as another hit piece on the HACers by the rebellious Darrell Dow, SFLers who watch this video know that it demonstrates powerfully how this series of posts actually ties into what has almost become the perhaps unintentional purpose of much of the communication here and on the forum. Revealing the courage and values of those who have left abusive environments, and those who support them. Providing a place for decompression, shared humor, support, guidance, and grace to people who like Linda have lived under the spectre of secrets, dealt with the pain caused by being forced by self-declared authorities to live a double life or to hide theirs, and giving examples and encouragement by people who have thrived in spite of potentially harmful circumstances.
Thanks again Darrell, this is more than just an Internet “rumor mill” and the motives behind your exposure of these things should be obvious to anyone who is paying attention.
Seeing Linda speak out, and so graciously I might add, is a huge relief for so many of us.
At another site the people making comments are just in utter shock that anyone close to the real goings on could actually say that not everything was absolutely perfect. That anyone close to FBC and/or Hyles would say he is not perfect and a near god is inconceivable in their world.
wow
That is a powerful video on so many levels. Thanks for sharing.
What a tremendous story.
I wonder how many of us experienced the exact same thing, just on a smaller scale. I know for me, at least, the same freedom-squelching, truth-distorting, courage-sapping culture that so profoundly affected Linda was the same culture that would have destroyed me if I had not gotten out when I did.
How many of us were expected to kowtow in blind submission to parents and pastors? How many of us were forced to keep dreadful secrets to protect the savage men and women who ran our lives? How many of us were threatened with the greatest possible pain and loss should we attempt to leave?
IFB far too often = a hate group, a cult, a mockery of Christ’s church.
In The Young Victoria, Prince Albert says, “I know what it is like to live all alone inside your head never giving a clue as to your real feelings.” I recently watched that movie with my wife and I told her that was exactly what my childhood was like. It takes a certain level of thoughtfulness and perception, however, to see through the falsity and filth. It breaks my heart to see so many, including many members of my own family, who either can’t or won’t use their minds to perceive what is really going on inside their “church.” 😥
Would that many more IFB victims would find the freedom, truth, and courage of which Linda spoke.
For what it’s worth, my dad was an IFB pastor and is now retired. He wasn’t controlling or anything like you or Linda describe. The man behind the pulpit was the same man I saw at home. After reading about the current mess at FBCH I called him over the weekend to tell him how much I appreciated his ministry and consistency. Apparently that was more rare that I realized.
I’m not going to defend any church that labels itself “IFB,” but I’d say far more of them are like what you experienced than the Hyles-Schaap type of cult. I grew up in IFB churches, but none of them were anything like that; the one that I spent the most time in (16 years) wasn’t KJVO, nor did women always wear skirts or men wear ties, for instance.
Everyone’s IFB experience is different, that’s for sure. My wife and I grew up in the same church (didn’t get married till several years after we had both left though) and we are often amazed at how different our experiences were growing up in the same place with the same pastor. I’m glad to hear your dad was such a great guy.
I think my biggest problem with IFB, however, is that if your dad had NOT wanted to be such a great guy there was nothing to prevent him from acting any way he pleased. Even Jack Hyles is said not to have been that bad when he first came to FBCH. The crazy developed slowly over time. Again, there was nothing in place to prevent that from happening. While it sounds like your dad’s church had a wonderful experience, Hyle’s church (and many others) were having a horrific experience at the same time: all under the same demominational umbrella. Something isn’t right when that is what happens. Just like the number of godly Catholic bishops no doubt outweighs the number that sheltered molesting priests, but at some point people stop pointing fingers at individuals and demand institutional responsibility and institutional change. IFB is long overdue for both.
I have had three IFB pastors in my life. The first two were very different, but in the sense of they were what they wanted to be sixty percent of the time. The other forty percent of the time was the attitude of the Fundie camp they were in. But even so, they had the “don’t touch the Lord’s anointed” attitude and the “Pastor knows better than you what God wants in your life.” Then I joined a church with an HAC pastor, and I learned what crazy could be.
While my father was not a pastor, and I didn’t go through as much as others have, I, too, was part of an very controlling church (HAC grad, of course) for many, many years.
God, in His great mercy, began to shine light on me about 7 years ago – I left about 5 years ago. I had abuse heaped on me and was preached against. They did have a legitimate grievance against me, since I couldn’t stand the humanistic, salesmanship-oriented stuff that passed for “soul-winning”. I stopped going with the church about 15 years prior, and I was constantly beat up on this topic. I was told that I could not use my gifts if I didn’t do this. Yes, it has seared me deeply (thus ‘Guilt Ridden’). But I fully understand what people like this go through.
This testimony is just so similar to the reality of alcoholic families, the importance of keeping the secrets. It just made me cry!
She deserves so much praise for telling the truth, when she was taught every day to tell lies.
If her story is true it’s sad she had to see and be part of her father’s double life. Sadly she is has become bitter, and is taking it out on God. It deeply saddened me when she referred to Gods holy word simply as a boo that wasn’t going to be controlled by. Sad sad sad, and a shame there is no fear of God. She is condemning many to hell with her bitterness, and bitterness is a sin just like adultery! Sin is sin period!
I also dislike that she referred to a church as a cult! If it was a cult then why have thousands been saved and changed and now live real (not fake) lives! God has done wonderful things in that church as I’m sure the devil has had a part in destroying several lives! She just needs to put her eyes on JESUS AND NOT MEN! Jesus died for ALL sinners! I sure Dr Jack Hyles was not perfect but still Jesus died for him! We will all give God count for all we did, and especially for the souls gone to hell for our poor testimony!
We all just need to humble ourselves and seek Gods face! We
should be praying for those who fall and with a broken heart for the cause of Christ instead of bashing his name!
Yes, Jesus died for Jack Hyles, but that doesn’t change the truth about his life. He was a manipulative adulterer who had a very successful “ministry.” His “ministry” was based on a cult personality, and, quite frankly, is very much like what I see with the various Kim Jong-whatever’s that lead North Korea. None of this means that God didn’t work through this. God is God and can do anything, but the truth sets people free. Embrace the truth.
she did put her eyes on Jesus and not Men, thats why she got out of the cult in Hammond and by all accounts into a church.
bitter, fall, testimony – these words do not mean what you think they mean.
We are not bashing the name of Christ or sending people to hell, that is what the two Jack-holes have done their entire ministry. Oh foolish Hammondians, who hath bewitched you? Have ye suffered so many things in vain?
Not to defend Jack Hyles, but I must disagree with you. No one can send anyone to Hell, just as no one can take responsibility for granting someone access to Heaven. He may have been a messed up individual, but I think you are ascribing far too much power to him.
Technically, you are correct. But you cannot tell me that these men who have preached a false Jesus will not pay for misdirecting the souls for which they were accountable. Read 2 Peter 2.
It could be just me, but I have a hard time accepting the idea that a person’s salvation hinges on the frailties of another human being, especially those in the Hyles/Schaap vein.
I was once in a very similar spot as you; believed the KJV was inspired, preserved, the whole bit. And that the metric for measuring a Christian’s level of spirituality was how into soul winning he or she was. And that some were bound to be “spiritual giants” while others limped awkwardly along, getting it right occasionally between massive screw-ups (after all, once saved always saved, right?).
Now? I’m no longer fundamentalist, obviously, and can no longer honestly state I’m Christian. Without turning this reply into my “testimony”, let me get to the point. I could have remained a loyal, unquestioning follower of men like Hyles (I did not know who Schaap was back in my fundy days), feeling high and mighty judging everyone else on how “sold out for God” they were. But I could not ignore what I saw happening right before my eyes in the IFB churches I attended. Men manipulating women, either covertly or blatantly. How depressed everyone looked in spite of smiles and hearty shouts from the pews during sermons. People burning out from “working for God”, which likely was a contributing factor in that depression for many. And how in the end when everything is quiet and you’re alone by yourself, you must listen to both your mind and your heart telling you things aren’t all sunshine and roses.
In short, men like Schaap and Hyles get where they are because they know how to work people. Play on their hopes and fears, joys and sorrows. They don’t really give a rat’s ass about these same people, in spite of their many words to the contrary. If you truly care about people, you DO NOT HURT THEM. At least not with malice aforethought, which is what lies at the heart of sexual and spiritual abuse, adultery and other forms of manipulation. And if you truly care about people, you are willing to sacrifice any grandiose dreams you may have if such same vision must come about by squandering, manipulating, or wasting others.
Truth be told, it’s plain to me that many in IFB have such distorted expectations in their leadership that when I read a post like yours, all I can do is shake my head and sigh.
One of the worst of the heresies spread by people like Hyles is that any individual human has the power to bring about, or to prevent, the salvation of another person’s soul. That’s between God and the person in question. As Darrell has commented before, the Hyles/Schaap God seems to be even smaller and weaker than Hyles or Schaap, which is very small and weak indeed.
^This!^ Amen BG, Amen!
That was one thing that really grated on me while in the IFB; how weak and ineffectual God was made to be, so dependent on “men of god” to get “his work” done. I wanted to believe God was stronger than that.
And He IS! So, so much more than a feable, frail old grandfater type wringing his hands in heaven hoping one of these Exalted M-O-g’s will come up with the correct formula that will save the entire world.
He is GOD. We aren’t, no matter how may pulpiteers try and tell you they are the very essence of god here on earth.. He alone is worthy of worship! The greatest sin in the church today is the view of God from the pew, and the presentation of god from the pulpit.
When will Hyles’ defenders learn that if you’re going to lie, you shouldn’t lie about something someone said that was recorded on audio/video? I love my KJV said, “It deeply saddened me when she referred to Gods holy word simply as a boo (sic) that wasn’t going to be controlled by.”
No she didn’t. That’s a fabrication. We saw the video. You made that up.
I love my KJV said, “Sadly she is has become bitter, and is taking it out on God.”
She said that what she learned in therapy was forgiveness. She told the truth about what she saw, but there was no bitterness in her face, her voice, or her words. If she wanted to bash her father or FBCH, she could have been much harsher without changing any of the events she reported.
I love my KjV said,”I also dislike that she referred to a church as a cult! If it was a cult then why have thousands been saved and changed and now live real (not fake) lives!”
She made a clear distinction between Baptist churches (what FBCH was when JH came there, and she only has good to say about) and cults (the controlling organization it became over time.) And the fake lives of many of those in leadership at FBCH have been well-documented.
My understanding is that she is still a believer, and possibly even still a Baptist, which says much about her forgiveness, healing, and lack of bitterness, and much about the grace of God. She is a better testimony for Jesus than JH ever was.
THank you PB for setting that straight! For a minute, I was thinking that I had listened to a different video than IlovemyKJV had listened to ❗
Considering her experience of the IFB movement, I was surprised that she DIDN’T say anything negative about it– only about what FBCH became under her father (she said it had previously been “a wonderful church”).
We will all give God count for all we did, and especially for the souls gone to hell for our poor testimony!
For the Love of God WAKE UP!
How small is this god that is spoken of here??
NOBODY, N-O-B-O-D-Y, NOT EVEN ONE PERSON IS IN HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR, MY, OUR POOR TESTIMONY!!
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Any person who is in hell is there because of their own sin… period! All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. They are not in hell because of your, my, our performance or lack thereof. Who is teaching this crap! Anyone who is teaching this should be horse whipped, tarred/feathered and out of town on a rail! It presents a weak, frail, powerless god who is at the mercy of our performance. That is not the God of Creation, the God of the Bible!
How DARE anyone think that they are all that and that someone else’s eternal destiny depends on them and their testimony/performance as a Christian! Thinking like that puts the individual above God and makes the “soulwinner” more important than God! Good Grief!
Ty, Don
‘amen’ to that!
So very true bro. Don. Our God is mighty to save.
“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Romans 1:20
“If her story is true”??? What is your problem??
She did not sound bitter to me. At. All. I grew up in an IFB home, with an alcoholic father. My dad was idolized by his whole family, but they had NO idea the HELL we went through. I totally understood what she meant about being a child and keeping the secrets.
Where is your compassion for abuse victims? Jesus would fold that woman into His arms, and you are a stone-thrower. I hope you love Jesus more than you love your KJV, but it isn’t showing.
Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap did not preach the Bible. Their ‘salvations’ were convincing people to say words, not believe in their hearts. Their fruits are lies, adultery, and unrighteousness. In all likelihood they will stand before Jesus saying, Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works? The answer — Depart from me, I never knew you.
Ok, the whole “I’m going to be a Poe” thing really is getting a bit old.
Stuff fundies like: equating truth-telling with bitterness.
I agree… you really need to humble yourself and seek God’s face.
Ohai Elijah Craig!
“I love my KJV”, I have a question for you. Are you sharing your actual thoughts on the matter or are your comments a parody (and you you just wrote what you thought a supporter of Jack Hyles or Jack Schaap would write)? Just curious.
Q: BUT WHO TOOK THE SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” ?
THERE HAD TO BE A THIRD-PERSON TO TAKE THAT SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” OF PASTOR SCHAAP “MAKING-OUT” ?
WHO TOOK IT ?
NOT PASTOR SCHAAP !
NOT THE YOUNG WOMAN SCHAAP WAS “MAKING-OUT” WITH !
HAH !
A THIRD-PERSON WAS INDEED INVOLVED WHO TOOK / SHOT THE SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” !
Tony Cisneros
2011 Candidate For City Treasurer,
City Of Chicago,
State Of Illinois,
United States Of America.
P.S.I SMELL THE STINK OF THE “JESUITS” IN THIS WEBSITE TOO !
I just laughed so hard I snorted.
Daryl, this is where your site loses me and I lose respect for it. Can the posters here ever be serious and engage in an actual conversation without resorting to childish joking and bantering?
The whole Hyle/FBC ethos is correct, at least on paper: They want to serve God and win souls for Christ. I know many of your users think Christianity is a joke and a fraud, but it’s not.
Why can you almost guarantee that if you have a Hyles guy for a pastor that he will run off with some woman (or man) and engage in some kind of gross misconduct? By the way, I’m just talking about activities that would disqualify one from being a pastor. I’m not referring to anything illegal. Why can you be almost certain that if you have a Hyles guy in your organization that he will end up being some kind of miscreant who will have an affair at the very least, and end in in jail at the worst? More than likely he’ll end up pushing the far end of “just” an affair and end up having multiple affairs, be homosexual, etc.
I’m not at all a TBN-watching charismatic. But I sometimes wonder if there’s almost a “curse,” for lack of a better term, and extra objections put up against Hyles-types of organizations because, at least on paper, they are fighting against evil and want to serve God. It’s almost as if there is extra pressure put on any Hyles organization, because they are such a threat, at least on paper, to evil. To me it just seems very odd the inordinately large number of pastors and students who end up divorced, homosexual, pedophiles, wife beaters, etc. By the way, I put in “divorced” in the same list because that too generally goes against God’s plan, even though I realize many of your posters couldn’t care less what the Bible says.
I know a pastor who says he never will even consider looking at a Hyles person because he doesn’t want a wife-beating, philandering, drunken homosexual on his staff. It’s sad, but he’s not being funny or sarcastic; he actually is quite serious………….So with that being said, I have in the last few years started to actually wonder if there is extra opposition against Hyles types since, as I said, at least on paper they want to serve God. I have no idea if that guy talking about “conspiracy” was just being a moron, sarcastic, a flamer, or what. But in all seriousness, I have wondered those same types of things……..Again, I’m NOT a charismatic and don’t lean that way and I’m probably way off base. But I do wonder if there is some extra opposition put against Hyles types since so, so many of them end up as the total opposite of a “normal” family-type of person. Anyone care to discuss?
Thanks for sharing. Go watch a sermon from Jack Hyles or Jack Schaap, pretty much any sermon from the last 25 years, and get back to me on serious thought without mocking those who disagree.
This site has many functions; one of which is to help many people get over the problems they had. Some resort to light-heartedness. Don’t hold that against them, or Darrell. It is therapeutic.
I have to say that I don’t agree with everything that is posted, but I enjoy the posts I do like.
It’s got nothing to do with opposition or conspiracy – Hyles and his ilk fail because there is nothing and no one to tell them when they first start drifting astray. Absolute power corrupts absolutely – if you believe you are divinely appointed and inerrant, it won’t be long before you start persuading yourself that whatever you want is what god wants you to have.
If you are uncritically adored and followed, if no is is allowed to point out when you are wrong, it won’t be long before you tell yourself that whatever you want is right and no more than your due. It’s what humans do.
I calling Poe on this one but just in case: please explain to us all how being perfect “on paper” has any relevance whatsoever to actually being good or godly or holy. You have just described phariseeism to a T but you have not described true Christianity under some sort of mystical attack from the devil.
“… if you believe you are divinely appointed and inerrant, it won’t be long before you start persuading yourself that whatever you want is what god wants you to have.”
Exactly. The great preacher William Sloane Coffin once said that what every congregation he had served had in common was that its members could not tell their own self-interest from God’s will. And those were people who didn’t even have absolute power over a church with no checks and balances. Accountability is the only thing keeping most people from making Gods in their own images.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Somewhere there is a village that has lost it’s idiot.
🙄 I’m sure they were tricked into the pose, too.
Uhhhhhhm, I can’t tell if this is real or someone playing a fundie?
There doesn’t have to be a third person. How many people take a picture of themselves kissing their significant other, and post it to facebook?
Entrapment? No one forced him to kiss this girl.
I can’t believe we’re even arguing over this – if you’re serious.
Yes, Tony is serious, but impossible to take seriously.
I knew I would see him show up here one day. The other trolls aren’t a patch on Tony.
If her story is true (of course it is), it is Jack Hyles who is condemning people to hell, not her. Jack is the one who taught her that Christianity was fake and a means to an end. What lesson was she supposed to take from her childhood when, as she states, not only was her father like this but everyone was expected not to notice or to be quiet about it.
Thanks for posting that, Darrell.
The damage done by people putting themselves in the place of God in other people’s lives is astronomical. Usurping God’s authority is the oldest evil.
The vast majority of IFBism follow the ‘Man of god’, and not God Himself. This becomes most evident when the truth and freedom in Christ is given up for the lies and bondage of a cult. Just as faith, freedom, joy, love and the fruits of the Spirit flow from following God; tyranny, fear, sin, secrets and the fruits of the flesh naturally result from following men.
The only real surprise to me is that people seem genuinely surprised at the sin that has been going on. Theologically, I guess I was expecting it. Regenerated or not, we have no power to do right without God, and all the religion in the world won’t change that.
Some of these people who are throwing out the ‘bitter’ accusation wouldn’t recognize ‘real’ bitterness if they saw it. If they think she is bitter they have no idea what it really means.
Bitterness, on this lady’s part, may be dang well warranted. That she’s not swamped with bitterness is a testament to her fortitude.
What an amazing women, I hope that someday I will be able to talk about my life in the IFB, what I lost and gained, with such gentleness and compassion.
Thanks Darrell for posting this, and may God bless Linda!
As a former student at HAC, and former Deacon at FBC, her words were at first painful to listen to, the shame I feel in following that man, the many wasted years…
We did leave before Hyles died. I took a stand for my family and bucked the system, became the subject of many a sermon illustration. Now, 14 years later, I’m starting to understand what happened. My thanks to Darrell and the many that contribute here. I’m a slow learner, but it’s starting to make since.
Don’t beat up on yourself, just enjoy your freedom and keep praying for those still trapped in the cult.
Thanks Dan. What gets me is that there are many good people there. People who bought shoes for my kids when I could not afford to. People who seemed quite normal. I thought Lapina was normal!, until this. I really do not understand how they can be so blind.
A lot has been said or thought about the reputation of God and Christ in all of this; which is fantastic, since the glory of God should be our top priority.
In both the Old and New Testament God made it clear that the people of God damaged the reputation of God by living inconsistent, sinful lives. However, the solution God presented through is prophets or apostles was never to cover it up or keep the secret. In fact they were usually the ones broadcasting it. The solution was always to repent.
If fundamentalism is upset by all of these scandals, then stop blaming the messengers and repent! Confess your sins one to another and pray one for another. Exercise church discipline consistently. Follow God and stop being pushed around by the charisma of powerful men.
YES!!
I grew up unchurched. German orient mother who was Lutheran in upbringing, US Dad who was Non Practicing Roman Catholic. I then spent the first 5 years of my marriage in an IFB church in East Texas….Heard Jack Hyles, Heard Curtis Hutson, etc. Unfortunately I have a hearing disability and can’t make out alot of this video. What I can say is this: There are MANY good people with sincere desires in the IFB, even today. I haven’t been a part of it for 20+ years and currently attend a non-denominational church. BUT many of the people I knew and loved in that day, Still serve God and follow him Faithfully. BOTTOM LINE: = God Sees the heart of EACH individual…he is THE GOD of the individual. Might everyone in their own right be prepared for His return no matter what church or organization you are affiliated with. God is Loving and Merciful.
Thank you, Ma, for your sweet words about FBCH. I too was a member for 25+ years & that is the church where I sincerely learned to depend on God (and not man) and to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit (through the reading & obeying of the Bible – God’s Word). I’m so sorry for each and every one of those who believe Linda has done a good & brave thing by casting aspursions on her family. I never have believed that Dr. Jack Hyles, or any other person anywhere is perfect or above God. That is never taught at FBCH or HAC. No doubt, there are those who have too much pride and arrogance, but it is not taught that they are superior to God. It saddens me to hear of those who blindly follow anyone, whether it be from FBCH or any other church or ministry. I love God, but am definitely not perfect. I pray daily for God’s mercy in my life. I try to help others whenever I can. I believe my testimony can affect others. If I were to fall into a deep sin, that would most certainly hinder the cause of Christ. No, I am not more powerful than God. My God is all-powerful! If it weren’t for God’s grace & mercy we would all be bound for the pits of Hell. Without trusting Christ as Saviour, none of us has any hope of Heaven. Thank you, Jesus for dying for my sins & for the sins of everyone in the entire world–no matter how “good” or “bad” we think we are.
It does no good to anyone to spread the things Linda has said. I have only lost respect for her, and not for Mrs. Hyles, the Hyles family or First Baptist Church of Hammond. In all the years I was at FBCH, Mrs. Hyles was never the wimpy wife that Linda makes her out to be. There is no validity to Bro. Hyles “owning” First Baptist Church buildings. That’s just ridiculous! There may, or may not be 50,000 members on the rolls of FBCH. Does it really matter? Remember, not every person who is a member of any church is faithfully in attendance. Also, many people on the church membership records may have moved away and never moved their membership to another church. The house in which the Hyles family lived belonged to the church, until a few years prior to Bro. Hyles’ death, when the church voted to give equity to all its long-standing pastors for the parsonages in which they lived, so when they are old & no longer able to serve in their capacity of the church, they will not be left without a residence. Dr. Hyles was deeded his house after nearly 40 years of serving as pastor of the church. Does anyone really think this unreasonable of any church to do for their pastor? As for the “secrets” Linda shared about Dr. Hyles having a mistress. Who knows??? Since he is in Heaven, and no longer here to defend himself, it’s easy to spread this gossip. Yes, gossip. That’s all it is. Be it true or false, it is still gossip. What does Linda expect, her father to be retroactively fired from pastoring the church???? Please!!!!
Linda, you are in your mid to upper 50’s. Don’t you think this a bit juvenile to be dragging your family laundry through the mud????
Life is too short to hold grudges. Trust in God and get your eyes off yourself and your past. We all have a past, and holding on to the past can only prevent us from furthering our work for God in the future. I’m sorry you think you were so mistreated. Were you ever raped by your brother? Did your father ever beat you until you were black & blue with bruises all over your face? My physical abuse can be as much a hindrance to me, if I were to let it be.
I respect the sanctity of marriage & have just celebrated my 31st anniversary to a man who grew up in First Baptist Church of Hammond and attended Hyles-Anderson College. We never attended a cult. We attended a church. I’m sorry you think you attended a cult. Maybe that’s because you were one of the lemmings blindly following after men. By the way, every family has secrets and it doesn’t mean we should each expose them to make us feel better about ourselves. When listening to you speak, my only thought was that you are very sad & self-centered. I do feel bad for your having to live through your past problems, but I don’t feel sorry for you. Learn from the past and go on to make the future better.
I’ve been involved in many great churches where I grew spiritually, only to find out that the pastor had an affair with the secretary, or that the pastor pulled some shady financial deals or that the music minister ran off with a lady he met online.
When several individuals who are intimately involved in the situation make the same accusation, you are a FOOL to ignore the accusations.
To say that Linda is a bitter liar is not acceptable here. You saw the Sunday morning version of Jack Hyles. She lived with him 24/7. Instead of defending HIM, you should be ashamed that you were so easily duped.
Wow. Jack Hyles’ contempt for his wife adds a whole new depressing layer of irony to that picture of him and his wife that Darrell posted last Thursday. Not only is it a monument illustrating how highly his church thought of him, it’s a monument to how magnificently he managed to live a lie.
Look upon my works ye mighty and despair, indeed. 🙁
Just to clarify, the picture referred to is not of the Hyleses themselves, but of a larger-than-life bronze statue of Jack Hyles and his wife that now stands on the campus of Hyles-Anderson College. There used to be a video on YouTube of HAC students performing devotional ceremonies to this statue, but HAC and/or First Baptist of Hammond seems to have removed the video now.
The whole time I was there (at HAC) I never ONCE saw Jack Hyles and his wife together. Never saw them arrive together to church, or leave together, or glance at each other, or, come to think of it be in the same room at the same time. The only time I ever saw them in the same room was when he was preaching and she was sitting in the *first* Choir seat. They never looked at each other, in all his stories about his life, his family, his adventures, he NEVER mentioned her. EVER. Someone speculated it was because she got upset that he talked about things she didn’t want shared and asked him not to… I just am pointing out that their non-relationship did not go unnoticed.
Assuming you only attended Hyles-Anderson College for 4 years, I think it sad that you were not privy to seeing Bro. & Mrs. Hyles together. I was there 25+ years, so I guess I had more opportunity. They were together, on many occasions. I have been with them at banquets, WMS meetings, luncheons, and many other occasions.
No, they did not arrive or leave church together. Bro. Hyles came early to prepare for the services to follow. Mrs. Hyles came for any meetings she might have and for church services. Then, of course, there was their weekly date night. No, I didn’t see them, but often heard of their Burger King meals (2 Whopper Jrs., plus mustard, minus mayo, and 2 diet Pepsi’s). I have even seen them at both their houses, the house on Greenwood and the condo on Ridge.
It is true, Bro. Hyles did not acknowledge Mrs. Hyles in sermons (until later in his life). That was because Mrs. Hyles was a very private and shy person & asked him not to. She did not want to be used as a “sermon illustration.” I really can’t blame her. I wouldn’t either!
It is sad that First Baptist Church, being so large was not able to allow its members to spend the time with the pastor & his wife which would be available with smaller churches.
I am sorry you weren’t able to see them when they were together. I did have that privilege on numerous occasions. Let me say too, there was no tension or awkwardness, that would have been present had the antipathy between Bro. and Mrs. Hyles been as Linda had portrayed it in her speech.
I don’t get it: One of the most profound posts ever on SFL and only about 80 comments? I’ve had some heated debates with other users lately, but right now I’m putting all that aside. Darryl could put some stupid post about some silly, trite, childish video or whatever, and we’d have 200 posts. But he puts up a serious post and, comparatively speaking, very little reaction. That is mind-blowing. What’s even more mind-blowing is the denigration this video is receiving at other sites. At other sites that there is nothing but talk about how this lady is a “liar” and a “fraud” and get this – “bitter……..Uneffing believable the absolute mind control that Hyles still has over everyone. We get a profound post and it’s degraded on one site and ignored here (comparatively speaking). I guess if Darryl wants interaction he will have to post a video of some silly topic or some stupid, trite saying that a pastor made in passing. I am stunned at the criticism of this video on one site and the puerile nature of this blog in that some insane, stupid, silly post get much more reaction than an actual serious post such as this.
Knock it off, really. The folks here have a safe place to recover in all manner of ways, including laughing at the naked emperors and the silly posts, as you say. Don’t try to shame folks because they aren’t performing to your standards. It’s unpleasant and judgemental, and I like the folks here enough to tell you so.
Hey, I am doing my best keeping up with this story on 6 different boards…cut us some slack.
It’s a rather long video – don’t think everyone has all the time in the world to watch it.
I already talked about how profound this post was and how it describes perfectly how even in the midst of some humorous and incredibly sad material that Darrell ends up posting here because people do/say/record it, that the end result is usually support and healing for people who have been hurt by those who supposedly hold authority over them from God. You can come here and slam the way various people deal with how horrible some of this stuff is, but please just appreciate the fact that Darrell does indeed post such serious and helpful things as this post and don’t get all fundy guilt trippin’ about it.
Oh, one more thing. There is a post on the forum about this video, and it has four pages of responses in one day. While many of the posters on the blog comments are hit and run, the people who regularly post here have been talking about this on the forum, and I have seen plenty of commentary about how courageous and amazing this woman and her video are.
It’s up to 135. (136 with this one.) Better?
😛
Everyone’s talking everywhere right now. On the forums, on multiple groups on facebook, on other blogs and forums. I’m pretty sure I’ve already posted this video to my facebook feed recently. Everyone’s already talking because this IS a serious topic.
A lot of the time we come to SFL to hang out and be silly. And some times something serious happens and we stop and discuss that. And sometimes we reflect on some serious thoughts or something and edify each other.
A few people have come on to the forum and started criticising the social fabric of our forum because they could say whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted on another forum and nobody’d care. What they don’t realise is for many of the regulars, the forum is actually a social group. We’ve formed friendships here.
Now, I don’t really bother with friends anymore because I’ve been burned too many times. But back when I did bother, sometimes when I was with my friends, we’d watch a movie. Sometimes we’d tell jokes and hang out and be stupid. Sometimes something had would happen and we wouldn’t really have anything to say but we’d be there for each other. Sometimes we’d learn something new and we’d share it with each other.
And so for this site. I’m sorry if you don’t get that or understand that. But if you’re willing to hang around, you’re welcome to join us. If it’s not your thing, there are plenty of other blogs and forums out there and I’m sure you’ll find something that suits you’re needs.
Also, I’m sorry if there are any spelling or grammatical errors in this post. I’ve had a very long day taking my three year old to the capital city to see a specialist, and been told he’ll need surgery again. It’s only minor (grommets), but all in all it’s been a long day. This post is meant to be a gentle explanation. If it doesn’t come across that way I’m very sorry. I’m just not at my best right now.
Well said, Tiarali. I agree, this site seems like friendship among the regulars in a lot of ways.
I hope things work out for your son and that his health issues are resolved soon.
Best wishes for you son, Tiarali.
*your son*
Don’t mean to take us too off course, but I can see Sheila’s point and I can also see Stony’s point. (after this post both of them will dislike me 🙁 )
Sometimes I feel bad for the myriad comments that are put on some well meaning video that a church or an individual put up to try to be a blessing to people. The sardonic, vituperative comments make me glad I’m not a regular poster here. Sad to say that I agree with Sheila that a video of some not-so-professional choir will get many nasty remarks. Then when we get an actual serious video such as this one, we don’t get even a third as many remarks as we would if we were making fun of some small church musicians in our holier-than-thou-attitude. On the other hand, I can see Stony’s point that this can be a fun place to hang out and be jovial.
Let me see if I can express myself a little better when I say “safe space”. I generally don’t comment on the various performer videos that come up here, because as you say, they are doing their best. But except for the years I was married into this mess, I have always been allowed to express my pleasure or displeasure at stuff. It was only among the fundies that I had to swallow every comment and shine on a smile, at all times.
For a lot of folks here, this is one of the first safe places where they can say what they want about the church and maybe even the people in the church and not be shamed. Even if I don’t agree with every person here, I can respect that they need to express themselves. Folks have been told for years to be sober, to sit in fear and trembling, and yet shine on that smile. If they need to point and laugh as part of their healing, so be it. It is not for the Sheilas to come and shush them.
I waited so long. Although I did hear her say, Thank God at the end, I hope her father did not destroy her having a true relationship to the Saviour.
Amen.
If it did then that would be a pretty poor savior who is unable to hang onto one of his own wouldn’t it? or there was no “true” relationship there to begin with. We only have to look to Romans 8 to see the Love of Christ toward his children and how secure we are.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If one is saved, a born again believer, a joint heir with Christ… who can separate them from Christ?
This is such a beautiful, gracious woman. I hope I can be as gracious as her about that place someday. Thanks for posting this.
Wow. I went to Linda Murphrey’s facebook page – the speaking one, not her personal one. She shared there that she did the talk back in April, and for some reason it only went online this week. Right when the Schaap had hit the fan and people wanted to hear her story.
(She did not say ‘when the Schaap hit the fan’, she is clearly far more gracious than that).
So it just went public and went viral, pretty much. Powerful timing. I’m just so glad she was brave enough to speak out.
“When the Schaap hit the fan” – I just about spit my coffee laughing when I read that phrase. I think that is going in my permanent verbal rotation.
Me too except I was drinking OJ!
I think “When the Schaap Hit the Fan” is now the official name for this fiasco. It will go down in history along with titles like “Teapot Dome,” “Watergate,” and “Iran/Contra.” 😎
And don’t forget Monica-gate and all of the Bimbo eruptions! Bill Clinton allegedly raped Juanita Broderick too. I’ve listened to her video (which the MSM didn’t air) and she should be believed as well.
… and this has what to do with the current topic??
” when the Schaap hit the fan” = Brilliant!
Let me state now that I am not I love my KJV or Tony Cisneros.
I think there are times when a poe is funny, but a poe here would be in bad taste. The woman made herself very vulnerable to share her testimony. It’s not like we’re discussing an error and heresy-filled website with so many gifs the pages have trouble loading in broadband. And there are already so many willing to label her nasty things.
I hope everyone’s had the discernment to not poe this. I really do.
Well I’m glad she found therapy(and hope it wasn’t equally as brainwashing as her childhood)? I hope she knows Jesus too and that God is a good Father. I’m not going to to belittle her experience it was obviously very traumatizing.
In response to various poe-ish comments that we seem to have been innundated with this time:
The truth does NOT = bitterness
Light hearted humor does NOT = hate or mockery or whatever
Sometimes there a fewer comments to a post like this because there isn’t anything lighthearted or funny to say and we generally try to take a lighthearted and gentle approach to discussing our crazy IFB pasts.
Stuff fundies like = imposing random bible-sounding rules and “standards” on a blog that is specifically designed to weigh (generally in a non-serious manner) the deficiencies of that sort of “christianity.”
You don’t need to start believing in justice. You’re impatient because you DO believe in justice. I say this because your sentiment and words are precisely those of saints martyred for the word of God: ‘how long, O Lord, holy and true, will you refrain from judging and avenging …’ [Re 6:9]. Methinks that puts you in good company.
The absence of justice is nothing new [Je 5:1; 12:1]. But judgment day comes [Je 22:13; Am 5:7], if not before then at the revelation of Jesus Christ [Lu 18:8] when he avenges those who cry out to him for justice [Lu 18:7].
Yahweh loves justice [Ps 37:28]. Yahweh is a God of justice [Is 30:18]. And God says, ‘I, Yahweh, love justice’ [Is 61:8]. These and other texts grant the sense that justice is the heartbeat of God. Accordingly, YH’s call for Israel to repent and to return IS the appeal to keep justice and to wait on God [Ho 12:6; Am 5:15].
Micah’s words are most telling in that they function as a summary of the law — an OT equivalent to Mt 22:37-40. ‘And what does Yahweh require of you but to do justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God’ [Mi 6:8]? To do this is to keep the whole law of God.
Better than any, Habakkuk captured the quintessential, spiritual pathology driving the theological aberration that, for generations, has sought to supplant God’s ministry of grace in the world. To those for whom this matters, the KJV renders it:
‘They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves’ [Ha 1:7].
More pointed is the NAU:
They are dreaded and feared; their justice and authority originate with themselves’ [Hab 1:7]
And sharper yet, the NET:
They are frightening and terrifying; they decide for themselves what is right.’
See also the NLT:
‘They are notorious for their cruelty and do whatever they like.’
And the NJB [Roman Catholic]:
‘They are dreadful and awesome, a law and authority to themselves.’
Of course this refers to Chaldea [1:6]. Habakkuk was dismayed that YH would punish eretz Ysra’el with those more violent than themselves. And yet Habakkuk himself made the case for this intervention with the now familiar ‘how long, O YHWH, will I cry for help’ [Ha 1:2] followed with references to violence [Ha 1:2], iniquity, destruction, wrong, and the perversion of justice [Ha 1:3-4]. They also collect captives like sand [Ha 1:9].
The self-originating and self-authenticating authority prevalent today has too much commonality with Habakkuk’s picture of Israel/Caldea to be ignored. Where Ha 1:7 spiritual solidarity with Chaldea prevails, the claim to have authority from God seems seriously impaired.
A thoughtful reading of Jude offers further insight into the pathology and practices driving the present-day phenomena.
Jesus railed against the practice minor external obedience while ignoring justice for others and the love of God [Lu 11:42 in context of Jesus’ teaching on Beelzebul (Lu 11:14-26), true obedience and blessedness (Lu 27-36), and especially the description of the practice of such religion as Lu 11:42 condemns (Lu 11:37-12:3)].
Significantly, the Spirit led Matthew to locate Luke’s ‘pay the tithe but disregard justice’ saying in the eschatological discourse of Mt 23-24.
All of the indictments of Mt 23:1-35 lead up to the generation saying of Mt 23:36, ‘all these things will befall this generation.’ In terms of what it affirms, Mt 23:36 is identical to the famed generational text of Mt 24:34, ‘this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.’ This indicates that this entire discourse functions as a single, literary narrative. And what is the point? Just this, Tiarali!
Matthew depicts the disaster of Mt 24 as the direct result of a refusal of justice for the practice of injustice crossed all generations [as Mt 23 affirms], culminating in the slaughter of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, between the Temple and the altar. Jesus gathered up all the righteous blood from Abel to Zechariah and laid it at the feet of good, separated Pharisees [Mt 23:35], and THAT becomes the historical-exegetical basis for the destruction of the Temple. It’s about justice.
With Mt 23:36 and Mt 24:34 functioning as bookends, it is beyond contest that this entire discourse functions as one, literary unit. But the faith communities in question will NEVER preach Mt 24 in this context. Mt 24 is instead SEVERED from this context and is projected into the future – precisely to avoid dealing with the justice of God.
And what happens if members witness TO the justice of God as it is expounded in Habakkuk, Micah, Luke, Matthew and others? I believe you’ll find your answer in 3 Jo 9-10 and the figure of Diotrephes, who
— loves to be first,
— refuses apostolic teaching,
— wickedly and UNJUSTLY accuses others,
— refuses to receive the brethren [also called ‘separation],
— forbids others to receive them, and
— puts them out of the church.
In intentional contrast is Demetrius [3 Jo 12], and it is Demetrius that we are called to emulate. Demetrius had a good testimony from all, and from the truth itself, and from the apostolic witness.
The name ‘Diotrephes’ [cherished by Zeus, LSJ lexicon; nourished by (or foster-child of) Zeus, Thayer lexicon] is intriguing. As king of the gods [Greek mythology], Zeus was recognized by his regal scepter and lightening rod. The imagery seems suitable today.
In conclusion:
Diotrephes and Demetrius are easily distinguished; and for those who believe on Jesus’ sacred Name, that distinction defines God’s will.
Scripture has many resources for believer needing a strengthening word from God to buttress faith as they break from Diotrephes.
Let’s dig deep. Learn to use Scripture to safeguard and support our weaker sisters and brothers in the Lord. But it is not enough to lead disciples away from Diotrephes. We must also work to strengthen and preserve the ways of faithful Demetrius, so that we will have churches to which to direct them.
Christian Socialist
Are we really to believe that Pastor Hyles owned the college and schools and the church and all of those buildings? I am not persuaded that Linda is telling the truth.
He wasn’t the owner of record of most of that, but he had absolute control over all of it and could use all the funds however he liked.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
First
So I’ve seen a few people on this Jack Schaap matter on different blogs/websites say things like “Well, I know this….” or “this will come out…” I don’t hold much weight on those but I can tell you this, you can believe what I’m saying. You know the story that came out in the media about the deacon finding the picture/s?? That was a lie and is false. Jack was caught by someone else (2 protect those I will not divulge who) but I promise, this is true. Schaap threatened this individual. Things happened (which I will not say) and in the end, Jack tried to come back and re-take the reins but a ton of unknown evidence was shown and then he admitted guilt, you may not believe this but it is true.
I believe it.
I believe you, Not Jeff Owens, but I would sure like to know more details about how it happened.
Waiting patiently for the mug shot and perp walk…
Waiting impatiently… and wanting a reason to start believing in justice again 🙁
first loser!
Firsties.
What a wonderful lady. Do you think there’s any hope of her being able to help her sister?
Or would have been first if George hadn’t slowed my connection down so much…
What an interesting question, Bella!
Several of us had noticed before the quiet desperation that Mrs. Jack Schaap seems to exude. For example, in this clip:
http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/06/christian-womanhood-follow-up/comment-page-1/#comments
Somehow it’s reminiscent of those ransome videos that hostages are forced to make– you know, the ones where they say “Please do everything the nice kidnappers tell you to do.”
Maybe we should start wearing buttons like this, with the slogan changed to “Free Cindy Hyles Schaap.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/uk_wear_ing_your_heart_on_your_sleeve/img/5.jpg
Make that ransom, George.
Big G, the first clip contains an interesting oblique reference to Linda’s departure. Amazing how they will whitewash even something like that. (But also noteworthy that Cindy makes clear that when her sisters moved away they were no longer her friends.)
Yes, I noticed those oblique references to her sisters getting the blazes out of the Hyles cult. You are absolutely right.
Which is why, to me, the whole “Cindy and Jack are in isolation working on their marriage” seems so sinister to me. PLEASE, please, someone get her to a real, genuine, qualified counsellor. And get her away from that monster and go spend some time with her sister. Away from everything. Time to be herself. Time to think. Time to breathe. Time to grow.
My heart is so broken for that woman and I just pray she gets some help now.
Could I be first?
Your username is awesome! (I’m a big fan of terry Pratchett)
Or would have been if my name wasnt so long!
(can’t even look at the vidio until I get home from work)
This is so powerful. And finally, someone confirms Vic Nischik’s accusations.
Listening in the background right now, riveting..
This was just great. I knew her in college (not well). She was so sweet and quiet (and always looked terrified). I am SO GLAD she got out and is doing so well. 😀
That was powerful. Thank you for posting this.
What an incredibly brave woman! You don’t just walk away from that kind of brainwashing and abuse. I can’t imagine what a frightening and wrenching struggle it must have been to break free from that kind of indoctrination.
Thanks for posting this video. It needs to be broadcast as much as possible.
Bless you, Linda. You are loved.
It is good to have confirmation from within the home.
This is a rather compelling talk, in light of recent and not-so-recent events.
I find Linda Murphrey credible on the whole, although she may be exaggerating some points. For example, I can’t believe that First Baptist Church of Hammond ever really had 50,000 members at any one time, unless they were counting everyone Hyles ever looked at as a member.
I thought that number was high, too. But, maybe she’s talking about the people who’ve been through the church and the schools through the years. Loyal HAC grads are in the cult, too, even if they aren’t in the area.
In all honesty, I think that is some of the residue of the lies and manipulation that took place in her household. She heard the number 50,000 somewhere along the line, and it stuck in her head. She never ran the numbers herself. Who do you think was more likely to throw that huge, unbelievable number out there, this questioning daughter or the “story-teller” Jack Hyles?
Big Gary,
I believe the number was close to 50,000 in Jack Hyles days but I doubt it is now–think they are counting all of the attendance of their “missionary teams”–but back in the day of J. Hyles I was on bus routes, and there was A,B,C,D,E, and F Sunday Schools so I can buy the number during Hyles time and I think that is where her mind was coming from.
There is also the tendency to count everybody baptized, even if they were never seen again. I am quite familiar of Baptist churches with membership of 3000-5000, and attendance of 200.
Certain churches, including Baptists, are notorious for inflating their membership rolls. That’s one of the reasons I doubt the 50,000 figure.
Also, an active membership of 50,000 would make it by far the largest local church in North America, and, despite what its members may be told, it just doesn’t have that kind of presence, even in the Chicago area. My Chicago friends and relatives have never heard of it.
Lloyd is right. Baptism made you an automatic member. Since they baptised lines of people every service, week after week, I can see the number being this high. But that would not be the accurate number for regular attenders. But when Jack Hyles was there, it was a pretty large group of people. Just not all there at once.
I never did like that baptism makes you a member now. My fundy lite church did this with my husband who wasn’t baptized yet and he didn’t like it. Next thing your know, they are manipulating you to clean the church so they can save money.
Then we heard, “you need to help pain this church since we are doing your wedding!” Are you freaking kidding me?!
Wow – the depth and extent of Jack Hyles’ depravity and evil goes beyond what I could have imagined. One can’t help but hurt for Cindy at this point, but maybe she can finally get away.
A very powerful video. My grandparents weren’t as bad as her parents – but my mom talks about the family at church and the family at home. It was my grandma that ruled the kingdom. All in the name of Jesus!
I thought I knew what went on but it turns out I only knew a tiny bit. Wow.
I hope her message reaches those who are on the edge wondering if they should walk away or not. You can make it through to the other side and be ok. Just walk toward the light….
I want to reach out and hug this woman. It’s such a beautiful thing to see how far she has come from that prison. And so admirable that she doesn’t blame Christianity, or Baptists, or the church members or even the IFB. I am not saying that the church members at FBC or the IFB movement are faultless; however, she is telling her personal story and I think it was very classy of her to keep the blame in her own family in this speech.
And I had to watch tl the end of the video for confirmation that she was wearing pants. She looks so modest and feminine. It’s a wonderful and rare thing when someone can leave a situation like the Hyles cult without going 180 degrees in the opposite direction (wearing ultra-immodest clothes as a reaction to the way they were brought up).
I hope she is finally wearing what she likes to wear, instead of trying to prove anything with her clothes.
Well said.
Awesome talk! And confirms, from w/in the compound, many of the rumors that have swirled around for years. Hard to imagine growing up like that. What a gracious lady. May God richly bless her.
Admission: I’m not at a computer right now that can play videos and therefore have not seen a second of this video.
But I saw this video at another site and I am in shock that the posters are saying how “bitter” this person is and how “deluded” she is to dare say anything was not quite right? They are calling her delusional and a liar. The kook-aid drinking abilities of some is nothing short of beyond description.
I know it’s ridiculous to think that anyone would make those kinds of comments to a story like this, but yet, I wonder how many of us were able, as we watched this, to predict the exact response from the IFB crowd, almost word-for-word, including all the poisonous “bitterness” and “gossip” and “strong delusion to believe a lie” bullcrap. 🙁
Let’s hope her sister, Cindy is not one of those saying she is lying. I’m sure that up until the last 14 days she was still towing the Hyles’ line.
Wow. Incredible story. Would love to hear more from her.
so while the haters might view this post as another hit piece on the HACers by the rebellious Darrell Dow, SFLers who watch this video know that it demonstrates powerfully how this series of posts actually ties into what has almost become the perhaps unintentional purpose of much of the communication here and on the forum. Revealing the courage and values of those who have left abusive environments, and those who support them. Providing a place for decompression, shared humor, support, guidance, and grace to people who like Linda have lived under the spectre of secrets, dealt with the pain caused by being forced by self-declared authorities to live a double life or to hide theirs, and giving examples and encouragement by people who have thrived in spite of potentially harmful circumstances.
Thanks again Darrell, this is more than just an Internet “rumor mill” and the motives behind your exposure of these things should be obvious to anyone who is paying attention.
Seeing Linda speak out, and so graciously I might add, is a huge relief for so many of us.
At another site the people making comments are just in utter shock that anyone close to the real goings on could actually say that not everything was absolutely perfect. That anyone close to FBC and/or Hyles would say he is not perfect and a near god is inconceivable in their world.
wow
That is a powerful video on so many levels. Thanks for sharing.
What a tremendous story.
I wonder how many of us experienced the exact same thing, just on a smaller scale. I know for me, at least, the same freedom-squelching, truth-distorting, courage-sapping culture that so profoundly affected Linda was the same culture that would have destroyed me if I had not gotten out when I did.
How many of us were expected to kowtow in blind submission to parents and pastors? How many of us were forced to keep dreadful secrets to protect the savage men and women who ran our lives? How many of us were threatened with the greatest possible pain and loss should we attempt to leave?
IFB far too often = a hate group, a cult, a mockery of Christ’s church.
In The Young Victoria, Prince Albert says, “I know what it is like to live all alone inside your head never giving a clue as to your real feelings.” I recently watched that movie with my wife and I told her that was exactly what my childhood was like. It takes a certain level of thoughtfulness and perception, however, to see through the falsity and filth. It breaks my heart to see so many, including many members of my own family, who either can’t or won’t use their minds to perceive what is really going on inside their “church.” 😥
Would that many more IFB victims would find the freedom, truth, and courage of which Linda spoke.
For what it’s worth, my dad was an IFB pastor and is now retired. He wasn’t controlling or anything like you or Linda describe. The man behind the pulpit was the same man I saw at home. After reading about the current mess at FBCH I called him over the weekend to tell him how much I appreciated his ministry and consistency. Apparently that was more rare that I realized.
I’m not going to defend any church that labels itself “IFB,” but I’d say far more of them are like what you experienced than the Hyles-Schaap type of cult. I grew up in IFB churches, but none of them were anything like that; the one that I spent the most time in (16 years) wasn’t KJVO, nor did women always wear skirts or men wear ties, for instance.
Everyone’s IFB experience is different, that’s for sure. My wife and I grew up in the same church (didn’t get married till several years after we had both left though) and we are often amazed at how different our experiences were growing up in the same place with the same pastor. I’m glad to hear your dad was such a great guy.
I think my biggest problem with IFB, however, is that if your dad had NOT wanted to be such a great guy there was nothing to prevent him from acting any way he pleased. Even Jack Hyles is said not to have been that bad when he first came to FBCH. The crazy developed slowly over time. Again, there was nothing in place to prevent that from happening. While it sounds like your dad’s church had a wonderful experience, Hyle’s church (and many others) were having a horrific experience at the same time: all under the same demominational umbrella. Something isn’t right when that is what happens. Just like the number of godly Catholic bishops no doubt outweighs the number that sheltered molesting priests, but at some point people stop pointing fingers at individuals and demand institutional responsibility and institutional change. IFB is long overdue for both.
I have had three IFB pastors in my life. The first two were very different, but in the sense of they were what they wanted to be sixty percent of the time. The other forty percent of the time was the attitude of the Fundie camp they were in. But even so, they had the “don’t touch the Lord’s anointed” attitude and the “Pastor knows better than you what God wants in your life.” Then I joined a church with an HAC pastor, and I learned what crazy could be.
While my father was not a pastor, and I didn’t go through as much as others have, I, too, was part of an very controlling church (HAC grad, of course) for many, many years.
God, in His great mercy, began to shine light on me about 7 years ago – I left about 5 years ago. I had abuse heaped on me and was preached against. They did have a legitimate grievance against me, since I couldn’t stand the humanistic, salesmanship-oriented stuff that passed for “soul-winning”. I stopped going with the church about 15 years prior, and I was constantly beat up on this topic. I was told that I could not use my gifts if I didn’t do this. Yes, it has seared me deeply (thus ‘Guilt Ridden’). But I fully understand what people like this go through.
This testimony is just so similar to the reality of alcoholic families, the importance of keeping the secrets. It just made me cry!
She deserves so much praise for telling the truth, when she was taught every day to tell lies.
If her story is true it’s sad she had to see and be part of her father’s double life. Sadly she is has become bitter, and is taking it out on God. It deeply saddened me when she referred to Gods holy word simply as a boo that wasn’t going to be controlled by. Sad sad sad, and a shame there is no fear of God. She is condemning many to hell with her bitterness, and bitterness is a sin just like adultery! Sin is sin period!
I also dislike that she referred to a church as a cult! If it was a cult then why have thousands been saved and changed and now live real (not fake) lives! God has done wonderful things in that church as I’m sure the devil has had a part in destroying several lives! She just needs to put her eyes on JESUS AND NOT MEN! Jesus died for ALL sinners! I sure Dr Jack Hyles was not perfect but still Jesus died for him! We will all give God count for all we did, and especially for the souls gone to hell for our poor testimony!
We all just need to humble ourselves and seek Gods face! We
should be praying for those who fall and with a broken heart for the cause of Christ instead of bashing his name!
Yes, Jesus died for Jack Hyles, but that doesn’t change the truth about his life. He was a manipulative adulterer who had a very successful “ministry.” His “ministry” was based on a cult personality, and, quite frankly, is very much like what I see with the various Kim Jong-whatever’s that lead North Korea. None of this means that God didn’t work through this. God is God and can do anything, but the truth sets people free. Embrace the truth.
she did put her eyes on Jesus and not Men, thats why she got out of the cult in Hammond and by all accounts into a church.
bitter, fall, testimony – these words do not mean what you think they mean.
We are not bashing the name of Christ or sending people to hell, that is what the two Jack-holes have done their entire ministry. Oh foolish Hammondians, who hath bewitched you? Have ye suffered so many things in vain?
Not to defend Jack Hyles, but I must disagree with you. No one can send anyone to Hell, just as no one can take responsibility for granting someone access to Heaven. He may have been a messed up individual, but I think you are ascribing far too much power to him.
Technically, you are correct. But you cannot tell me that these men who have preached a false Jesus will not pay for misdirecting the souls for which they were accountable. Read 2 Peter 2.
It could be just me, but I have a hard time accepting the idea that a person’s salvation hinges on the frailties of another human being, especially those in the Hyles/Schaap vein.
I was once in a very similar spot as you; believed the KJV was inspired, preserved, the whole bit. And that the metric for measuring a Christian’s level of spirituality was how into soul winning he or she was. And that some were bound to be “spiritual giants” while others limped awkwardly along, getting it right occasionally between massive screw-ups (after all, once saved always saved, right?).
Now? I’m no longer fundamentalist, obviously, and can no longer honestly state I’m Christian. Without turning this reply into my “testimony”, let me get to the point. I could have remained a loyal, unquestioning follower of men like Hyles (I did not know who Schaap was back in my fundy days), feeling high and mighty judging everyone else on how “sold out for God” they were. But I could not ignore what I saw happening right before my eyes in the IFB churches I attended. Men manipulating women, either covertly or blatantly. How depressed everyone looked in spite of smiles and hearty shouts from the pews during sermons. People burning out from “working for God”, which likely was a contributing factor in that depression for many. And how in the end when everything is quiet and you’re alone by yourself, you must listen to both your mind and your heart telling you things aren’t all sunshine and roses.
In short, men like Schaap and Hyles get where they are because they know how to work people. Play on their hopes and fears, joys and sorrows. They don’t really give a rat’s ass about these same people, in spite of their many words to the contrary. If you truly care about people, you DO NOT HURT THEM. At least not with malice aforethought, which is what lies at the heart of sexual and spiritual abuse, adultery and other forms of manipulation. And if you truly care about people, you are willing to sacrifice any grandiose dreams you may have if such same vision must come about by squandering, manipulating, or wasting others.
Truth be told, it’s plain to me that many in IFB have such distorted expectations in their leadership that when I read a post like yours, all I can do is shake my head and sigh.
One of the worst of the heresies spread by people like Hyles is that any individual human has the power to bring about, or to prevent, the salvation of another person’s soul. That’s between God and the person in question. As Darrell has commented before, the Hyles/Schaap God seems to be even smaller and weaker than Hyles or Schaap, which is very small and weak indeed.
^This!^ Amen BG, Amen!
That was one thing that really grated on me while in the IFB; how weak and ineffectual God was made to be, so dependent on “men of god” to get “his work” done. I wanted to believe God was stronger than that.
And He IS! So, so much more than a feable, frail old grandfater type wringing his hands in heaven hoping one of these Exalted M-O-g’s will come up with the correct formula that will save the entire world.
He is GOD. We aren’t, no matter how may pulpiteers try and tell you they are the very essence of god here on earth.. He alone is worthy of worship! The greatest sin in the church today is the view of God from the pew, and the presentation of god from the pulpit.
When will Hyles’ defenders learn that if you’re going to lie, you shouldn’t lie about something someone said that was recorded on audio/video? I love my KJV said, “It deeply saddened me when she referred to Gods holy word simply as a boo (sic) that wasn’t going to be controlled by.”
No she didn’t. That’s a fabrication. We saw the video. You made that up.
I love my KJV said, “Sadly she is has become bitter, and is taking it out on God.”
She said that what she learned in therapy was forgiveness. She told the truth about what she saw, but there was no bitterness in her face, her voice, or her words. If she wanted to bash her father or FBCH, she could have been much harsher without changing any of the events she reported.
I love my KjV said,”I also dislike that she referred to a church as a cult! If it was a cult then why have thousands been saved and changed and now live real (not fake) lives!”
She made a clear distinction between Baptist churches (what FBCH was when JH came there, and she only has good to say about) and cults (the controlling organization it became over time.) And the fake lives of many of those in leadership at FBCH have been well-documented.
My understanding is that she is still a believer, and possibly even still a Baptist, which says much about her forgiveness, healing, and lack of bitterness, and much about the grace of God. She is a better testimony for Jesus than JH ever was.
THank you PB for setting that straight! For a minute, I was thinking that I had listened to a different video than IlovemyKJV had listened to ❗
Considering her experience of the IFB movement, I was surprised that she DIDN’T say anything negative about it– only about what FBCH became under her father (she said it had previously been “a wonderful church”).
For the Love of God WAKE UP!
How small is this god that is spoken of here??
NOBODY, N-O-B-O-D-Y, NOT EVEN ONE PERSON IS IN HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR, MY, OUR POOR TESTIMONY!!
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Any person who is in hell is there because of their own sin… period! All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. They are not in hell because of your, my, our performance or lack thereof. Who is teaching this crap! Anyone who is teaching this should be horse whipped, tarred/feathered and out of town on a rail! It presents a weak, frail, powerless god who is at the mercy of our performance. That is not the God of Creation, the God of the Bible!
How DARE anyone think that they are all that and that someone else’s eternal destiny depends on them and their testimony/performance as a Christian! Thinking like that puts the individual above God and makes the “soulwinner” more important than God! Good Grief!
Ty, Don
‘amen’ to that!
So very true bro. Don. Our God is mighty to save.
“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Romans 1:20
“If her story is true”??? What is your problem??
She did not sound bitter to me. At. All. I grew up in an IFB home, with an alcoholic father. My dad was idolized by his whole family, but they had NO idea the HELL we went through. I totally understood what she meant about being a child and keeping the secrets.
Where is your compassion for abuse victims? Jesus would fold that woman into His arms, and you are a stone-thrower. I hope you love Jesus more than you love your KJV, but it isn’t showing.
Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap did not preach the Bible. Their ‘salvations’ were convincing people to say words, not believe in their hearts. Their fruits are lies, adultery, and unrighteousness. In all likelihood they will stand before Jesus saying, Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works? The answer — Depart from me, I never knew you.
Ok, the whole “I’m going to be a Poe” thing really is getting a bit old.
Stuff fundies like: equating truth-telling with bitterness.
I agree… you really need to humble yourself and seek God’s face.
Ohai Elijah Craig!
“I love my KJV”, I have a question for you. Are you sharing your actual thoughts on the matter or are your comments a parody (and you you just wrote what you thought a supporter of Jack Hyles or Jack Schaap would write)? Just curious.
Q: BUT WHO TOOK THE SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” ?
THERE HAD TO BE A THIRD-PERSON TO TAKE THAT SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” OF PASTOR SCHAAP “MAKING-OUT” ?
WHO TOOK IT ?
NOT PASTOR SCHAAP !
NOT THE YOUNG WOMAN SCHAAP WAS “MAKING-OUT” WITH !
HAH !
A THIRD-PERSON WAS INDEED INVOLVED WHO TOOK / SHOT THE SO-CALLED TEXT-“PHOTO” “EVIDENCE” !
I, PERSONALLY, SMELL THE STINK OF ENTRAPMENT:
“JESUITICAL” SEDUCTION & SEXUAL-ENTRAPMENT SCANDAL ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Truthfully, Honestly & Sincerely Yours,
Tony Cisneros
2011 Candidate For City Treasurer,
City Of Chicago,
State Of Illinois,
United States Of America.
P.S.I SMELL THE STINK OF THE “JESUITS” IN THIS WEBSITE TOO !
I just laughed so hard I snorted.
Daryl, this is where your site loses me and I lose respect for it. Can the posters here ever be serious and engage in an actual conversation without resorting to childish joking and bantering?
The whole Hyle/FBC ethos is correct, at least on paper: They want to serve God and win souls for Christ. I know many of your users think Christianity is a joke and a fraud, but it’s not.
Why can you almost guarantee that if you have a Hyles guy for a pastor that he will run off with some woman (or man) and engage in some kind of gross misconduct? By the way, I’m just talking about activities that would disqualify one from being a pastor. I’m not referring to anything illegal. Why can you be almost certain that if you have a Hyles guy in your organization that he will end up being some kind of miscreant who will have an affair at the very least, and end in in jail at the worst? More than likely he’ll end up pushing the far end of “just” an affair and end up having multiple affairs, be homosexual, etc.
I’m not at all a TBN-watching charismatic. But I sometimes wonder if there’s almost a “curse,” for lack of a better term, and extra objections put up against Hyles-types of organizations because, at least on paper, they are fighting against evil and want to serve God. It’s almost as if there is extra pressure put on any Hyles organization, because they are such a threat, at least on paper, to evil. To me it just seems very odd the inordinately large number of pastors and students who end up divorced, homosexual, pedophiles, wife beaters, etc. By the way, I put in “divorced” in the same list because that too generally goes against God’s plan, even though I realize many of your posters couldn’t care less what the Bible says.
I know a pastor who says he never will even consider looking at a Hyles person because he doesn’t want a wife-beating, philandering, drunken homosexual on his staff. It’s sad, but he’s not being funny or sarcastic; he actually is quite serious………….So with that being said, I have in the last few years started to actually wonder if there is extra opposition against Hyles types since, as I said, at least on paper they want to serve God. I have no idea if that guy talking about “conspiracy” was just being a moron, sarcastic, a flamer, or what. But in all seriousness, I have wondered those same types of things……..Again, I’m NOT a charismatic and don’t lean that way and I’m probably way off base. But I do wonder if there is some extra opposition put against Hyles types since so, so many of them end up as the total opposite of a “normal” family-type of person. Anyone care to discuss?
Thanks for sharing. Go watch a sermon from Jack Hyles or Jack Schaap, pretty much any sermon from the last 25 years, and get back to me on serious thought without mocking those who disagree.
This site has many functions; one of which is to help many people get over the problems they had. Some resort to light-heartedness. Don’t hold that against them, or Darrell. It is therapeutic.
I have to say that I don’t agree with everything that is posted, but I enjoy the posts I do like.
It’s got nothing to do with opposition or conspiracy – Hyles and his ilk fail because there is nothing and no one to tell them when they first start drifting astray. Absolute power corrupts absolutely – if you believe you are divinely appointed and inerrant, it won’t be long before you start persuading yourself that whatever you want is what god wants you to have.
If you are uncritically adored and followed, if no is is allowed to point out when you are wrong, it won’t be long before you tell yourself that whatever you want is right and no more than your due. It’s what humans do.
I calling Poe on this one but just in case: please explain to us all how being perfect “on paper” has any relevance whatsoever to actually being good or godly or holy. You have just described phariseeism to a T but you have not described true Christianity under some sort of mystical attack from the devil.
“… if you believe you are divinely appointed and inerrant, it won’t be long before you start persuading yourself that whatever you want is what god wants you to have.”
Exactly. The great preacher William Sloane Coffin once said that what every congregation he had served had in common was that its members could not tell their own self-interest from God’s will. And those were people who didn’t even have absolute power over a church with no checks and balances. Accountability is the only thing keeping most people from making Gods in their own images.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Somewhere there is a village that has lost it’s idiot.
🙄 I’m sure they were tricked into the pose, too.
Uhhhhhhm, I can’t tell if this is real or someone playing a fundie?
There doesn’t have to be a third person. How many people take a picture of themselves kissing their significant other, and post it to facebook?
Entrapment? No one forced him to kiss this girl.
I can’t believe we’re even arguing over this – if you’re serious.
Yes, Tony is serious, but impossible to take seriously.
I knew I would see him show up here one day. The other trolls aren’t a patch on Tony.
If her story is true (of course it is), it is Jack Hyles who is condemning people to hell, not her. Jack is the one who taught her that Christianity was fake and a means to an end. What lesson was she supposed to take from her childhood when, as she states, not only was her father like this but everyone was expected not to notice or to be quiet about it.
Thanks for posting that, Darrell.
The damage done by people putting themselves in the place of God in other people’s lives is astronomical. Usurping God’s authority is the oldest evil.
The vast majority of IFBism follow the ‘Man of god’, and not God Himself. This becomes most evident when the truth and freedom in Christ is given up for the lies and bondage of a cult. Just as faith, freedom, joy, love and the fruits of the Spirit flow from following God; tyranny, fear, sin, secrets and the fruits of the flesh naturally result from following men.
The only real surprise to me is that people seem genuinely surprised at the sin that has been going on. Theologically, I guess I was expecting it. Regenerated or not, we have no power to do right without God, and all the religion in the world won’t change that.
Some of these people who are throwing out the ‘bitter’ accusation wouldn’t recognize ‘real’ bitterness if they saw it. If they think she is bitter they have no idea what it really means.
Bitterness, on this lady’s part, may be dang well warranted. That she’s not swamped with bitterness is a testament to her fortitude.
What an amazing women, I hope that someday I will be able to talk about my life in the IFB, what I lost and gained, with such gentleness and compassion.
Thanks Darrell for posting this, and may God bless Linda!
As a former student at HAC, and former Deacon at FBC, her words were at first painful to listen to, the shame I feel in following that man, the many wasted years…
We did leave before Hyles died. I took a stand for my family and bucked the system, became the subject of many a sermon illustration. Now, 14 years later, I’m starting to understand what happened. My thanks to Darrell and the many that contribute here. I’m a slow learner, but it’s starting to make since.
Don’t beat up on yourself, just enjoy your freedom and keep praying for those still trapped in the cult.
Thanks Dan. What gets me is that there are many good people there. People who bought shoes for my kids when I could not afford to. People who seemed quite normal. I thought Lapina was normal!, until this. I really do not understand how they can be so blind.
A lot has been said or thought about the reputation of God and Christ in all of this; which is fantastic, since the glory of God should be our top priority.
In both the Old and New Testament God made it clear that the people of God damaged the reputation of God by living inconsistent, sinful lives. However, the solution God presented through is prophets or apostles was never to cover it up or keep the secret. In fact they were usually the ones broadcasting it. The solution was always to repent.
If fundamentalism is upset by all of these scandals, then stop blaming the messengers and repent! Confess your sins one to another and pray one for another. Exercise church discipline consistently. Follow God and stop being pushed around by the charisma of powerful men.
YES!!
I grew up unchurched. German orient mother who was Lutheran in upbringing, US Dad who was Non Practicing Roman Catholic. I then spent the first 5 years of my marriage in an IFB church in East Texas….Heard Jack Hyles, Heard Curtis Hutson, etc. Unfortunately I have a hearing disability and can’t make out alot of this video. What I can say is this: There are MANY good people with sincere desires in the IFB, even today. I haven’t been a part of it for 20+ years and currently attend a non-denominational church. BUT many of the people I knew and loved in that day, Still serve God and follow him Faithfully. BOTTOM LINE: = God Sees the heart of EACH individual…he is THE GOD of the individual. Might everyone in their own right be prepared for His return no matter what church or organization you are affiliated with. God is Loving and Merciful.
Thank you, Ma, for your sweet words about FBCH. I too was a member for 25+ years & that is the church where I sincerely learned to depend on God (and not man) and to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit (through the reading & obeying of the Bible – God’s Word). I’m so sorry for each and every one of those who believe Linda has done a good & brave thing by casting aspursions on her family. I never have believed that Dr. Jack Hyles, or any other person anywhere is perfect or above God. That is never taught at FBCH or HAC. No doubt, there are those who have too much pride and arrogance, but it is not taught that they are superior to God. It saddens me to hear of those who blindly follow anyone, whether it be from FBCH or any other church or ministry. I love God, but am definitely not perfect. I pray daily for God’s mercy in my life. I try to help others whenever I can. I believe my testimony can affect others. If I were to fall into a deep sin, that would most certainly hinder the cause of Christ. No, I am not more powerful than God. My God is all-powerful! If it weren’t for God’s grace & mercy we would all be bound for the pits of Hell. Without trusting Christ as Saviour, none of us has any hope of Heaven. Thank you, Jesus for dying for my sins & for the sins of everyone in the entire world–no matter how “good” or “bad” we think we are.
It does no good to anyone to spread the things Linda has said. I have only lost respect for her, and not for Mrs. Hyles, the Hyles family or First Baptist Church of Hammond. In all the years I was at FBCH, Mrs. Hyles was never the wimpy wife that Linda makes her out to be. There is no validity to Bro. Hyles “owning” First Baptist Church buildings. That’s just ridiculous! There may, or may not be 50,000 members on the rolls of FBCH. Does it really matter? Remember, not every person who is a member of any church is faithfully in attendance. Also, many people on the church membership records may have moved away and never moved their membership to another church. The house in which the Hyles family lived belonged to the church, until a few years prior to Bro. Hyles’ death, when the church voted to give equity to all its long-standing pastors for the parsonages in which they lived, so when they are old & no longer able to serve in their capacity of the church, they will not be left without a residence. Dr. Hyles was deeded his house after nearly 40 years of serving as pastor of the church. Does anyone really think this unreasonable of any church to do for their pastor? As for the “secrets” Linda shared about Dr. Hyles having a mistress. Who knows??? Since he is in Heaven, and no longer here to defend himself, it’s easy to spread this gossip. Yes, gossip. That’s all it is. Be it true or false, it is still gossip. What does Linda expect, her father to be retroactively fired from pastoring the church???? Please!!!!
Linda, you are in your mid to upper 50’s. Don’t you think this a bit juvenile to be dragging your family laundry through the mud????
Life is too short to hold grudges. Trust in God and get your eyes off yourself and your past. We all have a past, and holding on to the past can only prevent us from furthering our work for God in the future. I’m sorry you think you were so mistreated. Were you ever raped by your brother? Did your father ever beat you until you were black & blue with bruises all over your face? My physical abuse can be as much a hindrance to me, if I were to let it be.
I respect the sanctity of marriage & have just celebrated my 31st anniversary to a man who grew up in First Baptist Church of Hammond and attended Hyles-Anderson College. We never attended a cult. We attended a church. I’m sorry you think you attended a cult. Maybe that’s because you were one of the lemmings blindly following after men. By the way, every family has secrets and it doesn’t mean we should each expose them to make us feel better about ourselves. When listening to you speak, my only thought was that you are very sad & self-centered. I do feel bad for your having to live through your past problems, but I don’t feel sorry for you. Learn from the past and go on to make the future better.
I’ve been involved in many great churches where I grew spiritually, only to find out that the pastor had an affair with the secretary, or that the pastor pulled some shady financial deals or that the music minister ran off with a lady he met online.
When several individuals who are intimately involved in the situation make the same accusation, you are a FOOL to ignore the accusations.
To say that Linda is a bitter liar is not acceptable here. You saw the Sunday morning version of Jack Hyles. She lived with him 24/7. Instead of defending HIM, you should be ashamed that you were so easily duped.
Wow. Jack Hyles’ contempt for his wife adds a whole new depressing layer of irony to that picture of him and his wife that Darrell posted last Thursday. Not only is it a monument illustrating how highly his church thought of him, it’s a monument to how magnificently he managed to live a lie.
Look upon my works ye mighty and despair, indeed. 🙁
Just to clarify, the picture referred to is not of the Hyleses themselves, but of a larger-than-life bronze statue of Jack Hyles and his wife that now stands on the campus of Hyles-Anderson College. There used to be a video on YouTube of HAC students performing devotional ceremonies to this statue, but HAC and/or First Baptist of Hammond seems to have removed the video now.
The whole time I was there (at HAC) I never ONCE saw Jack Hyles and his wife together. Never saw them arrive together to church, or leave together, or glance at each other, or, come to think of it be in the same room at the same time. The only time I ever saw them in the same room was when he was preaching and she was sitting in the *first* Choir seat. They never looked at each other, in all his stories about his life, his family, his adventures, he NEVER mentioned her. EVER. Someone speculated it was because she got upset that he talked about things she didn’t want shared and asked him not to… I just am pointing out that their non-relationship did not go unnoticed.
Assuming you only attended Hyles-Anderson College for 4 years, I think it sad that you were not privy to seeing Bro. & Mrs. Hyles together. I was there 25+ years, so I guess I had more opportunity. They were together, on many occasions. I have been with them at banquets, WMS meetings, luncheons, and many other occasions.
No, they did not arrive or leave church together. Bro. Hyles came early to prepare for the services to follow. Mrs. Hyles came for any meetings she might have and for church services. Then, of course, there was their weekly date night. No, I didn’t see them, but often heard of their Burger King meals (2 Whopper Jrs., plus mustard, minus mayo, and 2 diet Pepsi’s). I have even seen them at both their houses, the house on Greenwood and the condo on Ridge.
It is true, Bro. Hyles did not acknowledge Mrs. Hyles in sermons (until later in his life). That was because Mrs. Hyles was a very private and shy person & asked him not to. She did not want to be used as a “sermon illustration.” I really can’t blame her. I wouldn’t either!
It is sad that First Baptist Church, being so large was not able to allow its members to spend the time with the pastor & his wife which would be available with smaller churches.
I am sorry you weren’t able to see them when they were together. I did have that privilege on numerous occasions. Let me say too, there was no tension or awkwardness, that would have been present had the antipathy between Bro. and Mrs. Hyles been as Linda had portrayed it in her speech.
I don’t get it: One of the most profound posts ever on SFL and only about 80 comments? I’ve had some heated debates with other users lately, but right now I’m putting all that aside. Darryl could put some stupid post about some silly, trite, childish video or whatever, and we’d have 200 posts. But he puts up a serious post and, comparatively speaking, very little reaction. That is mind-blowing. What’s even more mind-blowing is the denigration this video is receiving at other sites. At other sites that there is nothing but talk about how this lady is a “liar” and a “fraud” and get this – “bitter……..Uneffing believable the absolute mind control that Hyles still has over everyone. We get a profound post and it’s degraded on one site and ignored here (comparatively speaking). I guess if Darryl wants interaction he will have to post a video of some silly topic or some stupid, trite saying that a pastor made in passing. I am stunned at the criticism of this video on one site and the puerile nature of this blog in that some insane, stupid, silly post get much more reaction than an actual serious post such as this.
Knock it off, really. The folks here have a safe place to recover in all manner of ways, including laughing at the naked emperors and the silly posts, as you say. Don’t try to shame folks because they aren’t performing to your standards. It’s unpleasant and judgemental, and I like the folks here enough to tell you so.
Hey, I am doing my best keeping up with this story on 6 different boards…cut us some slack.
It’s a rather long video – don’t think everyone has all the time in the world to watch it.
I already talked about how profound this post was and how it describes perfectly how even in the midst of some humorous and incredibly sad material that Darrell ends up posting here because people do/say/record it, that the end result is usually support and healing for people who have been hurt by those who supposedly hold authority over them from God. You can come here and slam the way various people deal with how horrible some of this stuff is, but please just appreciate the fact that Darrell does indeed post such serious and helpful things as this post and don’t get all fundy guilt trippin’ about it.
Oh, one more thing. There is a post on the forum about this video, and it has four pages of responses in one day. While many of the posters on the blog comments are hit and run, the people who regularly post here have been talking about this on the forum, and I have seen plenty of commentary about how courageous and amazing this woman and her video are.
It’s up to 135. (136 with this one.) Better?
😛
Everyone’s talking everywhere right now. On the forums, on multiple groups on facebook, on other blogs and forums. I’m pretty sure I’ve already posted this video to my facebook feed recently. Everyone’s already talking because this IS a serious topic.
A lot of the time we come to SFL to hang out and be silly. And some times something serious happens and we stop and discuss that. And sometimes we reflect on some serious thoughts or something and edify each other.
A few people have come on to the forum and started criticising the social fabric of our forum because they could say whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted on another forum and nobody’d care. What they don’t realise is for many of the regulars, the forum is actually a social group. We’ve formed friendships here.
Now, I don’t really bother with friends anymore because I’ve been burned too many times. But back when I did bother, sometimes when I was with my friends, we’d watch a movie. Sometimes we’d tell jokes and hang out and be stupid. Sometimes something had would happen and we wouldn’t really have anything to say but we’d be there for each other. Sometimes we’d learn something new and we’d share it with each other.
And so for this site. I’m sorry if you don’t get that or understand that. But if you’re willing to hang around, you’re welcome to join us. If it’s not your thing, there are plenty of other blogs and forums out there and I’m sure you’ll find something that suits you’re needs.
Also, I’m sorry if there are any spelling or grammatical errors in this post. I’ve had a very long day taking my three year old to the capital city to see a specialist, and been told he’ll need surgery again. It’s only minor (grommets), but all in all it’s been a long day. This post is meant to be a gentle explanation. If it doesn’t come across that way I’m very sorry. I’m just not at my best right now.
Well said, Tiarali. I agree, this site seems like friendship among the regulars in a lot of ways.
I hope things work out for your son and that his health issues are resolved soon.
Best wishes for you son, Tiarali.
*your son*
Don’t mean to take us too off course, but I can see Sheila’s point and I can also see Stony’s point. (after this post both of them will dislike me 🙁 )
Sometimes I feel bad for the myriad comments that are put on some well meaning video that a church or an individual put up to try to be a blessing to people. The sardonic, vituperative comments make me glad I’m not a regular poster here. Sad to say that I agree with Sheila that a video of some not-so-professional choir will get many nasty remarks. Then when we get an actual serious video such as this one, we don’t get even a third as many remarks as we would if we were making fun of some small church musicians in our holier-than-thou-attitude. On the other hand, I can see Stony’s point that this can be a fun place to hang out and be jovial.
Let me see if I can express myself a little better when I say “safe space”. I generally don’t comment on the various performer videos that come up here, because as you say, they are doing their best. But except for the years I was married into this mess, I have always been allowed to express my pleasure or displeasure at stuff. It was only among the fundies that I had to swallow every comment and shine on a smile, at all times.
For a lot of folks here, this is one of the first safe places where they can say what they want about the church and maybe even the people in the church and not be shamed. Even if I don’t agree with every person here, I can respect that they need to express themselves. Folks have been told for years to be sober, to sit in fear and trembling, and yet shine on that smile. If they need to point and laugh as part of their healing, so be it. It is not for the Sheilas to come and shush them.
I waited so long. Although I did hear her say, Thank God at the end, I hope her father did not destroy her having a true relationship to the Saviour.
Amen.
If it did then that would be a pretty poor savior who is unable to hang onto one of his own wouldn’t it? or there was no “true” relationship there to begin with. We only have to look to Romans 8 to see the Love of Christ toward his children and how secure we are.
If one is saved, a born again believer, a joint heir with Christ… who can separate them from Christ?
This is such a beautiful, gracious woman. I hope I can be as gracious as her about that place someday. Thanks for posting this.
Wow. I went to Linda Murphrey’s facebook page – the speaking one, not her personal one. She shared there that she did the talk back in April, and for some reason it only went online this week. Right when the Schaap had hit the fan and people wanted to hear her story.
(She did not say ‘when the Schaap hit the fan’, she is clearly far more gracious than that).
So it just went public and went viral, pretty much. Powerful timing. I’m just so glad she was brave enough to speak out.
“When the Schaap hit the fan” – I just about spit my coffee laughing when I read that phrase. I think that is going in my permanent verbal rotation.
Me too except I was drinking OJ!
I think “When the Schaap Hit the Fan” is now the official name for this fiasco. It will go down in history along with titles like “Teapot Dome,” “Watergate,” and “Iran/Contra.” 😎
And don’t forget Monica-gate and all of the Bimbo eruptions! Bill Clinton allegedly raped Juanita Broderick too. I’ve listened to her video (which the MSM didn’t air) and she should be believed as well.
… and this has what to do with the current topic??
” when the Schaap hit the fan” = Brilliant!
Let me state now that I am not I love my KJV or Tony Cisneros.
I think there are times when a poe is funny, but a poe here would be in bad taste. The woman made herself very vulnerable to share her testimony. It’s not like we’re discussing an error and heresy-filled website with so many gifs the pages have trouble loading in broadband. And there are already so many willing to label her nasty things.
I hope everyone’s had the discernment to not poe this. I really do.
Well I’m glad she found therapy(and hope it wasn’t equally as brainwashing as her childhood)? I hope she knows Jesus too and that God is a good Father. I’m not going to to belittle her experience it was obviously very traumatizing.
In response to various poe-ish comments that we seem to have been innundated with this time:
The truth does NOT = bitterness
Light hearted humor does NOT = hate or mockery or whatever
Sometimes there a fewer comments to a post like this because there isn’t anything lighthearted or funny to say and we generally try to take a lighthearted and gentle approach to discussing our crazy IFB pasts.
Stuff fundies like = imposing random bible-sounding rules and “standards” on a blog that is specifically designed to weigh (generally in a non-serious manner) the deficiencies of that sort of “christianity.”
I, however, am not that ungracious: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151103332918728&set=o.193101164130959&type=1&theater
😆 Excellent!
Dear Tiarali:
With reference to yours earlier today:
You don’t need to start believing in justice. You’re impatient because you DO believe in justice. I say this because your sentiment and words are precisely those of saints martyred for the word of God: ‘how long, O Lord, holy and true, will you refrain from judging and avenging …’ [Re 6:9]. Methinks that puts you in good company.
The absence of justice is nothing new [Je 5:1; 12:1]. But judgment day comes [Je 22:13; Am 5:7], if not before then at the revelation of Jesus Christ [Lu 18:8] when he avenges those who cry out to him for justice [Lu 18:7].
Yahweh loves justice [Ps 37:28]. Yahweh is a God of justice [Is 30:18]. And God says, ‘I, Yahweh, love justice’ [Is 61:8]. These and other texts grant the sense that justice is the heartbeat of God. Accordingly, YH’s call for Israel to repent and to return IS the appeal to keep justice and to wait on God [Ho 12:6; Am 5:15].
Micah’s words are most telling in that they function as a summary of the law — an OT equivalent to Mt 22:37-40. ‘And what does Yahweh require of you but to do justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God’ [Mi 6:8]? To do this is to keep the whole law of God.
Better than any, Habakkuk captured the quintessential, spiritual pathology driving the theological aberration that, for generations, has sought to supplant God’s ministry of grace in the world. To those for whom this matters, the KJV renders it:
‘They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves’ [Ha 1:7].
More pointed is the NAU:
They are dreaded and feared; their justice and authority originate with themselves’ [Hab 1:7]
And sharper yet, the NET:
They are frightening and terrifying; they decide for themselves what is right.’
See also the NLT:
‘They are notorious for their cruelty and do whatever they like.’
And the NJB [Roman Catholic]:
‘They are dreadful and awesome, a law and authority to themselves.’
Of course this refers to Chaldea [1:6]. Habakkuk was dismayed that YH would punish eretz Ysra’el with those more violent than themselves. And yet Habakkuk himself made the case for this intervention with the now familiar ‘how long, O YHWH, will I cry for help’ [Ha 1:2] followed with references to violence [Ha 1:2], iniquity, destruction, wrong, and the perversion of justice [Ha 1:3-4]. They also collect captives like sand [Ha 1:9].
The self-originating and self-authenticating authority prevalent today has too much commonality with Habakkuk’s picture of Israel/Caldea to be ignored. Where Ha 1:7 spiritual solidarity with Chaldea prevails, the claim to have authority from God seems seriously impaired.
A thoughtful reading of Jude offers further insight into the pathology and practices driving the present-day phenomena.
Jesus railed against the practice minor external obedience while ignoring justice for others and the love of God [Lu 11:42 in context of Jesus’ teaching on Beelzebul (Lu 11:14-26), true obedience and blessedness (Lu 27-36), and especially the description of the practice of such religion as Lu 11:42 condemns (Lu 11:37-12:3)].
Significantly, the Spirit led Matthew to locate Luke’s ‘pay the tithe but disregard justice’ saying in the eschatological discourse of Mt 23-24.
All of the indictments of Mt 23:1-35 lead up to the generation saying of Mt 23:36, ‘all these things will befall this generation.’ In terms of what it affirms, Mt 23:36 is identical to the famed generational text of Mt 24:34, ‘this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.’ This indicates that this entire discourse functions as a single, literary narrative. And what is the point? Just this, Tiarali!
Matthew depicts the disaster of Mt 24 as the direct result of a refusal of justice for the practice of injustice crossed all generations [as Mt 23 affirms], culminating in the slaughter of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, between the Temple and the altar. Jesus gathered up all the righteous blood from Abel to Zechariah and laid it at the feet of good, separated Pharisees [Mt 23:35], and THAT becomes the historical-exegetical basis for the destruction of the Temple. It’s about justice.
With Mt 23:36 and Mt 24:34 functioning as bookends, it is beyond contest that this entire discourse functions as one, literary unit. But the faith communities in question will NEVER preach Mt 24 in this context. Mt 24 is instead SEVERED from this context and is projected into the future – precisely to avoid dealing with the justice of God.
And what happens if members witness TO the justice of God as it is expounded in Habakkuk, Micah, Luke, Matthew and others? I believe you’ll find your answer in 3 Jo 9-10 and the figure of Diotrephes, who
— loves to be first,
— refuses apostolic teaching,
— wickedly and UNJUSTLY accuses others,
— refuses to receive the brethren [also called ‘separation],
— forbids others to receive them, and
— puts them out of the church.
In intentional contrast is Demetrius [3 Jo 12], and it is Demetrius that we are called to emulate. Demetrius had a good testimony from all, and from the truth itself, and from the apostolic witness.
The name ‘Diotrephes’ [cherished by Zeus, LSJ lexicon; nourished by (or foster-child of) Zeus, Thayer lexicon] is intriguing. As king of the gods [Greek mythology], Zeus was recognized by his regal scepter and lightening rod. The imagery seems suitable today.
In conclusion:
Diotrephes and Demetrius are easily distinguished; and for those who believe on Jesus’ sacred Name, that distinction defines God’s will.
Scripture has many resources for believer needing a strengthening word from God to buttress faith as they break from Diotrephes.
Let’s dig deep. Learn to use Scripture to safeguard and support our weaker sisters and brothers in the Lord. But it is not enough to lead disciples away from Diotrephes. We must also work to strengthen and preserve the ways of faithful Demetrius, so that we will have churches to which to direct them.
Christian Socialist
Are we really to believe that Pastor Hyles owned the college and schools and the church and all of those buildings? I am not persuaded that Linda is telling the truth.
He wasn’t the owner of record of most of that, but he had absolute control over all of it and could use all the funds however he liked.