Last Gasps

From all indications, Jack Schaap, the infamous pastor of the First Baptist Church of Hammond and chancellor of Hyles-Anderson college, is on his way out the door. For now he’s on “indefinite medical leave” which in fundamentalism is generally accepted code for “about to be quietly fired for doing something horrible.” Word to the wise: keep an eye on the Wednesday evening service at FBC this week. It might be worth your time.

Update 1 (7:30p.m.) The story has officially broken by CBS Chicago so I now feel free to share it here. Christ have mercy.

But at least Jack managed to get one last burst of crazy in before he headed for an undisclosed location to await this fate and here it is. From July 8th here are some relevant excerpts from his sermon “What Mom And Dad Don’t Know Will Hurt Him.” Only click that link for audio if you have a strong constitution.

01:20 Let me ask your daughter something. You date him? Have you
kissed him? Ya’ sleeping with him? Multiple times?

04:04 And I’ll look at the person and say, who ya sleeping with? Your
kid’s problem(s) isn’t, the, did you see how short her skirt is, no,
the problem is, she takes her skirt, and everything else off. Your
kids are coming to me and telling me they have sexual experiences in
the hundreds; hundreds; hundreds.

05:04 Is she good in bed? How many times have you slept with her? Are
you uncomfortable?

05:46 You know, the most common question I ask our teenagers: are you
safe in how you act? Mom and dad, you understand the language? That’s
my most common question. In Baptist Church, in Hammond, Indiana, are
you practicing safe sex?

09:10 I want to say to my fellow brethren cremate me over this. Absolutely destroy me on the blog pages. Massacre. We’ve lost lost
scores of HAC students because pastors get furious when I talk about this. But who wrote the book on sexuality folks?

09:47 Nobody wants to be more intimate with you than God does. The language that Jesus Christ used when he talked to his Father about what he wanted for his people. Read John 17 mom and daddy and tell me how intimate he wanted your kids to be with him. Read John 15 and ask me if Jesus Christ just wanted to shake hands. [whispering] If you abide in me, and my words abide in you. I in you. You in Me. We in the Father, the Father in us. Don’t try to reach some ambiguous theological nonsense in that. Jesus was saying, can I put it in language that everybody understands. He says “I want be the most intimate of intimates with you.”

10:50 But if we don’t get it figured out that we’re connected with God. And when your teenager goes through adolescence and they start changing, and daddy, you don’t want to touch her anymore, you know you don’t want to hug her anymore; trust me, she’s got a boyfriend lined up who’ll be happy to touch her.

11:50 Mom, dad, listen to me. I don’t need more business, but when your children reach that age, and they start going through that 13, 14, 15 year stage, send them to me, I’ll talk to them. Please don’t look at me like I’m stupid, why are you talking this way? Because I don’t want to lose your kids, that’s why. Because you don’t want to find out about it do you mom and daddy. And I’ll tell you three reasons why. Number one, because you’re dirty yourself.

12:42 I was one of those little kids that went to a public school. You’ve heard me say it, I watched sex take place in the Junior High hallway, but I was a virgin when I got married.

13:09 You know what grieves my heart. I’m looking around and see some of you men sleeping and I want to walk up to you. I can tell you how many girls your son has slept with; I know. He lives at home with you right now. You’re sleeping. You’re sound asleep. I want to walk up to you and say wake up dad, your son is whoring around.

15:03 Do you know how many times your daughter sneaks out in the wee hours of the morning to have sex with her boyfriend? Well, not my
daughter. I’ll take pictures for ya’.

763 thoughts on “Last Gasps”

  1. Something is fishy here. He supposedly left his cellphone on the pulpit, and someone saw a sext from the girl?

    When I receive a text on my phone, it doesn’t just light up for the whole world to see. I have to pick up my phone and push a few buttons in order to retrieve the text. Many people have passwords on their phones as well. (It would make sense that a man in Schaap’s position would have a password.) Anyway, this isn’t a case of someone “accidentally” seeing a text on Schaap’s phone. Someone had to pick up the phone and rummage through it–assuming it wasn’t locked with a password, which would mean someone went to the trouble of hacking the phone. And someone wouldn’t search/hack his phone unless they had an ulterior motive.

    That’s it. The phone was purposely hacked. Someone knew something, hacked his phone, and confronted him. I honestly don’t think that one sext would cause such an uproar–it would be more in line with the IFB’s history to hide a little dalliance like that. Too much at stake with such a great MOG. I think what we know now about Schaap is just the tip of an iceberg.

    My final analysis? Schaap is guilty as charged, AND vengeance is afoot at FBCHammond.

    1. Yes, yes, yes. Exactly what I’ve thought, said previously on this thread. Clearly if he’s screwing around, J.S. would have had a password on his phone. Clearly, whoever found the phone intentionally waited for the right moment to hack it. Clearly, they wanted to get rid of him, had suspicions, and needed further proof. Now, his behavior is reprehensible, to say the very least. . .but I would venture to guess that it may have been other reasons they wanted him gone, but they looked and found a great, legitimate reason to get rid of him. Someone was looking. Someone/some people wanted him gone. Be sure of it. And, to be clear, he SHOULD be gone!

      1. You are absolutely right! You just can’t look at a cell phone and, “voila!” up pops a sext. The person must have thought something was going on in the first place and looked into the matter. However he exposed him, I am glad it is exposed. And the sermon from July 8th really sickened me how he spoke about teenagers and their sexual exploits. He was their counselor and turns right around and have sex with them. Snake in the pulpit…

      2. No doubt Schaap is guilty and deserves the full penalty under the law, but just to clear up a technical point: it’s default functionality on an iPhone and I suspect other modern smartphones to show a picture text on the front when it comes in. I don’t think you should read too much into that point.

        1. Thanks for the technical explanation, Eric. That makes perfect sense. My cell is only a cell, no pics, no texts, so I can’t comment from experience (a little technologically challenged here ha), but your comment seems to be correct.

      3. No one would have needed to hack his cell phone if he left the phone open and his text message app running because he’d been receiving multiple sexts from the girl already!

    2. You would be surprised. Criminals–especially those who are in positions of power–are stupider than you might think. They assume they’ll never get caught, that they have nothing to worry about. They’re so assured of their position and their power that the thought of taking some basic precautions, such as using a password, doesn’t even cross their mind. It’s happened before, with many other people. I wouldn’t be surprised if the case here is simply that Schaap really DIDN’T have a password.

      In the words of Robert J. Hanlon, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

      1. Yeah, he might have felt that he didn’t need to password protect his phone, that no one would dare to touch his personal cell phone. And, who knows, maybe the deacon picked it up out of curiosity when it dinged or vibrated, and – what have we got here? 😈

      2. Great Quote! Thanks. I needed one small laugh in all this yuk. Stupid will always happen.

    3. Yeah…I’m wondering if this isn’t the oversimplyfied scenario:

      1. Schaap and the Secretary have been in cahoots from the get-go.
      2. As a back-up in-case-I-get-hit-by-a-bus plan, the secretary had all of Schaap’s passwords. (This is not unheard-of between bosses and secretaries.)
      3. Schaap, in his arrogance, double-crossed the secretary.
      4. The secretary threw him under the bus.

    4. Actually, Michelle, if you have an iphone, it pops right up there on the screen. Even when the phone is locked.

      Funny story: I’m out to dinner with friends. Chatting along. My phone laid out in front of me. My sis decides she’s gonna send me a post surgery pic of her breast reduction. Yeah, we’re that kinda family πŸ˜† And BAM! Boobs! Smaller boobs than before. Neverthless, Boobs! My sis boobs at the dinner table and everyone laughing. We’re not a modest bunch, so my sis didn’t care one bit. Told me to ask my friends what they thought! LMAO

      So yes, if homeboy has an iphone, that text did, in fact, pop up on the screen right then and there. I dont know if androids do the same.

    5. It depends on the phone. My Iphone gives a “preview” of a text and photo of you receive it and you’re not on the text screen. My previous phone didn’t do that (both are Verizon phones). So it is possible a passer-by saw a preview of a text/photo (especially if he didn’t silence the tone and it attracted that person’s attention. Mine quacks like a duck.)

    6. Not to defend or attack–just an observation. My phone pops the texts up and a small pic if one is texted. It comes on for a few seconds and then goes off if not acknowledged.

      Maybe whoever picked up the phone just wanted to try to figure out whose it was to return it, and then “oops! what have we got here

    7. Plus, a 54 yo guy stupid enough to become involved with a 16 yo girl is likely not thinking rationally enough to worry about passwords, etc…

  2. like father like son in this case son in-law. Suprised the church actually removed him from the pulpit, maybe they aren’t as brained washed as we thought nah that can’t be it.

  3. I’m still wondering about the relationship between Schaap and the secretary. If what we’ve heard about the secretary driving the young lady out to meet Schaap is true, then that secretary knows where all the bodies are buried (figuratively speaking). How much do y’all want to be that blackmail on someone’s part will become a part of the whole sordid tale?

    1. I wondered about the bodies buried thing too. She’s got to know how long this has been going on and with whom. Hopefully she’s straightforward with authorities on who else was involved.

      1. I thought the secretary was a man? Either way, if what we’ve heard is correct he/she just got fired, he/she may now have an ax to grind. 😯

  4. Will the HylesAnderson kids go to West Coast now? I wonder what Schaap thinks now..

    “Darn all my cult-following kids are going to that liberal college that compromiser Chappell has”

    You ever talk to the alumni of Hyles that work at WCBC, they do not like their experience there especially Schmidt, the youth pastor.

    1. I don’t think they’re all going to go to West Coast now. I think a new MOG will step in to replace Schaap, and everyone will just start to worship the new guy, and everything will go back to the way it was. Hopefully with a little less crazy.

    2. Why would they leave the cult they know for a cult they don’t know. And Schmidt has moved far away from Lancaster.

      1. Lancaster is nowhere near to how cultish FBC Hammond is. Many IFB actually look down on Lancaster because they believe Chappell became liberal in his music.

        Schmidt also left Lancaster on good terms.

    3. The ones who are there will probably stay. They will have a short gasp of “I will NEVER believe that unless HE says it is true” and then move on to the next leader that is put in the pulpet. Other kids, however may look at a lot of different schools before Hyles Anderson however. (We can only hope) I think the bloom is off the rose.

  5. Darrell THANKS for fixing the title typo….it was driving me NUTS each time I read it. πŸ˜†

  6. Just wanted to point out three things:

    1. Since becoming Anglican, I’ve spent a lot more time in the Psalms, and I find that David, the biblical one, the man after God’s own heart, spent a LOT of time calling down curses on evildoers, and pleading with God to bring them to justice, which he often spelled out in graphic detail. Apparently, there is an appropriate time for this.

    2. 1 Cor 13, the love chapter, says in verse 6: “It (love) does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.”

    3. The omnipotent God I serve is not thwarted by any evil J.S. or any other religious leader may do, nor is He glorified by covering or excusing evil rather than exposing it and bringing it to justice.

    Oh, and I live in SE WI, near the IL state line. I know plenty of people who live and work in the northern suburbs of Chicago, or the city itself. Very few people, very few Christians, very few Evangelicals, even very few Baptists in the area have even heard of Jack Hyles, much less Jack Schaap.

  7. If I were Jack Schaap’s wife, I would skip the “reconciliation”…he isn’t sorry for his sin- he is only sorry that he got caught. If the picture on his cell phone was not seen by a deacon (if that is the true story) then Jack would probably be planning a weekend getaway with this girl in Michigan before school starts back up again.

  8. Actually, Jack Schaap was targeted by a group and they conspired to take him down… Go to Facebook & see what they are saying that they did. They are now trying to *find* other *victims* to come forward. I recognized some of the names there and saw that they had also done the same with some other churches… 17-year-old girls can act like harlots, as well as 18 or 21 year olds — not that this excuses his part — IF HE HAS DONE ANYTHING MORE THAN HUG & KISS her, that is not *criminal* behavior (wrong for a pastor, but not criminal).

    1. What business would ANY pastor have to be even remotely close to a young females body? Sure, to stand a few feet away and to pat a young gal on the shoulder for letting her know she has great accomplishments. This is why you set standards….to avoid any chance at intimacy! My heart grieves that this even happened.

    2. I love how suddenly “mans laws” are above “God’s law”. All of JS supporters are screaming “age of consent” and “no crime committed”. Please. And whatever you do, make sure you blame the child. Stupid girl should known better than to be molested by her Pastor who she was taught to obey and never question his authority! What is this? 1700’s???

    3. I just…..WHAT???? Yeah, that’s right…he’s being framed. Freaking unbelievable. I guess that congregation deserves him. The man was OBSESSED with sex, just like Mark Driscoll, and also obsessed with contriving a way to justify the domination of women from the Bible. “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh…”

    4. Blame the girl? Right. Come on.
      Any man in his right mind knows not to be alone with anyone who he may have to face off with in a police station. You close the door and you may go to jail. He blew himself up. He re-victimized a person who needed help.
      The Facebook is Do Right First Baptist Church of Hammond. They set their name up backwards and unless you know of them, they are nearly unsearchable.

  9. Just curious…how are the pastors of Lake and Porter Counties dealing with this. I’m sure there are some very godly men out there. What are they saying, and how are they saying it? After all, they have lived and worked in the Hammond Baptist shadows for many years. Are they now going to take a stand?

    1. I grew up in Lake County and the non-Hyles pastor I had there was classy enough to never talk about Hyles or anything connected to it. He would address general issues throughout Christianity, and I imagine that this sunday he’ll be talking about sex abuse in Baptist circlse, but I think the situation speaks for itself and there will be no reason for him to name names. Most of the people in that church are there because they got disgusting with Hyles shenanigans, so he doesn’t need to convince them of anything they don’t already know.

    2. A lot of the pastors in the area don’t even know about Jack Schaap. The IFB is not nearly as famous as the IFB thinks it is.

  10. It was announced today that no charges will be brought against Schapp because the girl was past the legal age of consent. He won’t be able to stay out of a pulpit.

    1. That announcement was made by the church and Not by the authorities. An announcement like that from he church only discourages other victims from coming forward. It’s all CYA.

  11. Please, everyone who should come forward, do so. And if you know someone who’s hesitant but has something to say, offer to go with them to the police. Be strong. Isaiah 41:10

  12. This should come to no surprise to anyone. HAC has been a breeding ground for narcissistic woman haters for years. Jack Hyles covered up child molestation and was accused of this very thing. The men/women who beleive in this cult are truly blind and are unable/unwilling to face the truth themselves, it’s too scarey. It is easier for them to blame the media and the “world.” Jack Hyles set the standard on this type behavior. If one would honestly listen to the sermons of the grads/staff of this mecca, they are mostly projection of the very sins they are committing. Usually what one is most passionate about or has the most distain, is usually the very thing they are trying to hide. Narccistts MUST stay together, unless one is litterally/obviously caught with thier pants down, its the web effect. Don’t give this anymore energy than it deserves, he isjust a man, just like any other man…he/HAC have self appointed their greatness.

    1. True as it ever was – if you want to know their favorite sin, look at what they rail against the loudest. πŸ™„

  13. Here it is boys and girls…Guest preacher Kenny Baldwin start speaking, J.S. phone was in pulpit it went off {vibrated} he picked it up ans said”what in the world” Eddie La Pina came up and took the phone. If he would have found it not guest preacher…can you say cover up. The real story is there needs to be a Accounting firm from the outside and aduit needs to be down, J.S. was spending like a drucken sailor and it will show how many were duped, and by the way Mr Eddie L was over the money, Adminastrative Pastor, he will be up to it to his eyeballs. HELLO

  14. For all of you on here that are Christians here just to hate and talk about other Christians, I’m on here every-so-often to be the Biblicist. You talk about other men of God, you bash them, you speak so unchristian like about them. 1. If you don’t know the complete facts, stop speculating. 2. Every sin that each and everyone of you have ever done is just as wrong and as wicked as the sin that this ex-pastor committed. 3. Instead of talking about the man 24/7, how about you stop looking at your computer or cellphone screen for five minutes and get on your knees and pray for this man that He can come to true repentance, for his family that God will help them through this extremely hard time they are going through, and pray for the church and the people that were involved. And for the person who so inconsiderately talked about Mrs. Schaap, she is probably the most gracious and forgiving woman that I have personally ever met, and saying that you “know” that she had to know something about it and was involved in trying to cover this up, you are dispicable. For people on this site that love to hate other Christians, that is just as bad, if not worse in God’s eyes as the sin that Dr. Jack Schaap committed.

    1. Ok, I’m relatively new to the forums here. Is there a playbook these people use? Is it part of the indoctrination…um…I mean discipleship process? They claim the moral(or biblical) high ground and then proceed to rip posters up using the same methods they accuse the posters of using? I’ve only been lurking for a month or so. Just trying to figure the nonsense that passes for righteous indignation these days.

    2. David, Go read Paul’s letter to the Corinthians. I Cor. 5 specifically. (Kept it KJV in case that’s your preference) I’m pretty sure everyone knew who Paul meant and this was a step necessary for “purging” that hopefully would lead to repentance. Paul didn’t mince words. Even worse than what was going on in Corinth Schaap by his doctrine and his actions has shown himself a false prophet; that is the fruit he bears. Read the NT passages on false teachers and see if it doesn’t sound like him? Paul was out front about the devious actions that signal bad doctrine, bad fruit and need for repentance to the Gospel.
      You don’t know how many of us have prayed for all the people involved. It’s sad and heartbreaking on many levels. I don’t find even a small amount of amusement because I love other Christians. The bride of Christ is called to be pure because we’ve been cleansed, we’re meant to have washed our garments in Jesus’ blood and be knit together by the Spirit in Truth. This man mocked our LORD from the pulpit and his secret sins have now been found out. I say these things with fear because I’m told to “take heed lest I fall”.

      9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    3. Biblicism = disregarding 2000 years of church history and theology in favor of reading your life story and presuppositions into the Scriptures, then claiming moral and doctrinal authority for your position.

      You are so proud that you are not a Calvinist, instead you have chosen to be a Davidist.

    4. David, I believe our first prayers should be for the female victims of JS, the man who used his position to gain the trust of young women then seduce them mentally and sexually. Next, let’s pray for some members of the church who really had no idea of the corruption that was going on. Then we should pray for JS’s innocent children who have to live with the fact their dad is a sexual predator and his wife who must overcome humiliation. There are so many VICITIMS to pray for first, I believe we should put JS on the bottom of the list. He claimed to be a man of God. Let’s pray God shows him more mercy than he did those young women. The entire Hyles dynasty seems to be a sex fueled shameless sham.

    5. Well, I for one am glad there is a “Biblicist” here. Or I would be if I knew what that was. And David, the “Biblicist”, wants us all on our knees to pray for JS and the crew. He didn’t seem to think praying for the victim and her family was worth mentioning.

    6. You know, it is right to pray for those in prison, including Schaap. But praying for an inmate’s own good is to pray for him to come to an honest understanding of what he has done and to work towards honest restoration. Or, if you prefer, repentance, which is not reached by a quick “I’m sorry.” Nor is Schaap the only one who should be repenting. His shenanigans have been allowed by what his prosecutors have now called the “conscientious stupidity” of his followers. That may be dismissed as an anti-Christian slam. Or it can be taken to heart as a call, finally, literally for God’s sake, to quit. being. stupid!

  15. Sorry. I just reread your post David. Help me understand your meaning hear. Initially you state that:

    “2. Every sin that each and everyone of you have ever done is just as wrong and as wicked as the sin that this ex-pastor committed.”

    Then you say:
    “For people on this site that love to hate other Christians, that is just as bad, if not worse in God’s eyes as the sin that Dr. Jack Schaap committed.”

    So which is it? Is it the same or is it worse? Or are you actually saying that people talking about the sin this man committed is worse than him committing the sin?

    1. I actually think some fundamentalists do believe that talking about it is worse than committing it, because then you can’t hide it and pretend that it never happened.

      Of course, the Bible says, “He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy” (Prov. 28:13).

      1. Using that logic we can’t talk about anyone’s sin then. Not Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Peter or Paul’s sin. All (actually) men of God who sinned. That leaves a lot of passages quiet…

        Using that logic also makes the authors of scripture, (let me use David’s word here) “worse” than the murderer, adulterer, polygamist, etc.

        AND since the ultimate author of Scripture is the Holy Spirit, and taking David’s argument to the absurd logical extreme, that makes the Holy Spirit a worse sinner than Dr. Schaap.

        Something’s not right here. Just sayin…

  16. What is unchristlike is still unchristlike, no matter what any of you try to say. I get on this morning to see what everyone has to say, and I see about 8 comments. Let me ask this, how many got up and actually had a walk with God, which includes reading your Bible, and praying. Before you come on and question everything, why don’t you all use some BIBLICAL logic, and and see things from Christ’s viewpoint and not your own.

    1. Well I’m in a completely different time zone, literally. So no matter what the time stamp I was halfway through the morning when I posted. I have a “walk” or relationship with God EVERY day by virtue of the fact that Jesus Christ is my Savior and I’m baptized into His perfect life, death and resurrection. And yes this faith does lead to prayer and reading the bible but those are joys in my life not cred cards. It says the Spirit leads us to cry out “Abba, Father”. I will agree we can ALL exhibit un-Christlike behavior at times posting here or in the privacy of our hearts or anywhere else. Personally, I’d hope I could receive correction if necessary.

      What do you think Christ’s viewpoint is on the matters that have come to light? I think Paul explained it pretty clearly in the New Testament. Does it mean I don’t want a man to repent? No. But even if he’s officially disqualified from pastoring and some legal recourse may need to happen.

  17. I don’t use my walk with God as the authority I’m speaking from, I’m using the word of God as my authority. Nonetheless, every one of you that see my post right now know that it is not right, and neither is it Biblical to post the things that some of you post. I know we have the right to free speech in America, but it doesn’t say we have the right of “bash” speech and “hate” speech. To each and every one of you, when has his man EVER bashed one of you or for that matter, when has anyone ever publicly bashed you?

    1. Oh goodie, it’s my turn. David you asked:

      “To each and every one of you, when has his man EVER bashed one of you or for that matter, when has anyone ever publicly bashed you?”

      Part one of your question – everytime any of us heard JS preach.
      Part two – As a grown man of over 50 years old, the only time I have been publicly bashed in the last 35 years was whenever I was sitting in the pew of an IFB church.

      David – here’s a challenge for you. Watch the video from the post linked below and comment on that video about how a great man of God Schaap is.

    2. 1 Timothy 5:20 tells us that elders “who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.”

      The next verse warns us, “I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.”

  18. Hey Scorpio, I’m still waiting for David to respond to my questions! πŸ˜‰

    Seriously, David, did you read I Corinthians 5. I recommend the whole book not just one chapter. Did you look up what the NT has to say about false teachers and the SEVERE consequence they face?
    Have you read or listened to the sermon that is linked to this post called “What Mom and Dad Won’t Know Will Hurt Him??? It illustrates Scorpio’s first point as well. Is this really biblical preaching, proper exegesis, edifying, Christ honoring does it lead people to “grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ”. How?

    The NT at times calls people out by name. I haven’t bashed Jack Schaap; I know you said “some of you”. But again, I ask, what do you think Christ’s perspective is? Wouldn’t it be the same stern warnings writ throughout the NT (and OT for people who take His name in vain? The people in the the pews should be Bereans and a man who is called a Pastor has a duty to feed and protect the flock. This man did the opposite of those things.

  19. If you really want to see Christ’s perspective on this matter, why don’t we all ready Matthew 5

    1. Right…and maybe if Jack and all the other fundy cult leaders had understood, believed and taught the real meaning of this passage, you wouldn’t be here defending a statutory rapist…(even if not technically in the state of Indiana)

    2. OK David, as you requested I’ve read Matthew 5. Not sure you have done so with the refernces others have asked you to consider.

      After reading the passage, are you implying that Schaap is:
      Poor in spirit
      Hungering after righteousness
      Pure in Heart
      A Peacemaker
      Persecuted for righteousness sake

      Or is he in v19 where the warning is about breaking God’s Word and then teaching others to do likewise?

      Or are you referencing v32 where Jesus says it is ok for Mrs. Schaap to divorce him because of his adultery?

      I think I understand though, you only see the verses in that chapter you want to impose upon everyone else because you don’t like what is being said.

      1. Wow! Talk about Hebrews 4:12. Furious Jehu this was better than the sermon I heard yesterday which is really sad.

  20. Don’t you see that Jesus has called us to be peacemakers. You can try to turn everything I say against me, but in the end, you all are not trying to be peacemakers, you are trying to stir up strife. If I’m not mistaken, Matthew 5 says we are to be peacemakers.

    1. πŸ˜• There is no “throwing up hands in utter despair” emoticon. It was nice trying to talk with you. I’ll still pray for you.

        1. Ta-DA! There is it folks. Rodney King’s dream is dead. We can’t all just get along. Guess what, the same book of Romans addresses this issue as well David – Romans 12:18. In other words, if two parties ain’t getting along it better not be the Christians’ fault.

    2. Agreed. Many here have tried to engage you in conversation. Peacemaking means two parties in conflict work through it until a reconciliation occurs. This is seen in the Gospel with Jesus the ultimate peacemaker between God and man. Until this post you have been on the attack, accusing and condemning – not responding to requests to consider passages of Scripture that might assist in understanding the conflict between your position and that of many others here.

      Still with this latest post you offer a non-denial denial. Another shift from pointed questions asked of you in previous posts to pointing out yet another failure – not peacemaking.

      I’ll try another attempt at peacemaking with you David. Have done as beensetfree asked of you and read 1 Corinthians 5 and attempted to understand his point? If not may I suggest you do so if you are sincere about this Jesus peacemaking business?

      1. I’ll assume David is my brother in Christ and that he knows 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9
        And that is why he wants to see peace among Christians. But peace is not apart from defense of Truth. When a man acts like a wolf, the very opposite of an under-shepherd then, let’s hope that he will be stopped and some people will be taken from under his oppressive false yoke and instead be led to Jesus and to a Pastor who will truly watch over them.
        I just don’t understand what David wants?

        1. Reread my post above. I’m not passing judgement on David’s soul but rather encouraging him to work toward peace – it is expected of us. I apologize to David if it came across that way. Meant to encourage not condemn.

        2. Nah, I didn’t take it that way. Just wanted to make myself clear. Since, as anyone can tell, my grammar doesn’t lend itself to comprehension. I’d blame my IFB schooling, our teachers weren’t the most qualified, but really my lack of studying is probably the culprit. OK, tmi maybe.

        3. “that way” meaning hoping only to tear down. I saw many edifying things in what you said FJ.

  21. David – I think you’re a fool. I think you are socially awkward and you don’t get any interaction or attention in the real world. So you come on here under the guise of wanting to make peace, but all you really want is people to acknowledge you exist. So this is me acknowledging you, and telling you I know you’re a clown.


    a.DR. SCHAAP ? NO !







    1. If the man ain’t fooling around on his wife the photographer on the “grassy knoll” would have nothing to shoot.

      Not that I believe for a moment there is such a third person. Seen many myspace or facebook self portrait photos?

      FYI: Caps lock is stuck Tony.


      as well as tango…which is what I think you meant. Though the way you expressed it also true.

  23. Found out about this Monday and was absolutely sickened. That “ick” feeling seems to have tripled in intensity once I read that transcript of Schaap’s “highlights”.

    I am curious about one thing, though. For all of what’s come out, I could easily picture Schaap blasting someone like Ed Young (the younger) for his emphasis on sex while doing likewise.

  24. Sure sounds like hes preaching to himself some too. Seams To have some Guilt to deal with…. been there and still deal with…

  25. My theory has been that you can tell a preacher’s fetish by what he “passionately” opposes from the pulpit in regards to temptations, dress, women, etc. .

  26. As someone who went to that college during ” Hyles-Gate” and knows all too well people effected by jack Hyles, his son Dave (a former friend), and others all I can say is this is not at all surprising. Schaaps arrogance is legend and is right n par with that of his late father-in-law and brother-in-law. The heresy he’s been allowed to spew in the name of the Lord should have been shut down long ago. As long as the right wing fundamentalists worship the pastors as if he were God himself and refuse to hold them accountable, this will continue.

    His teachings are reprehensible and inappropriate and always have been. This is not the God I know, nor the Christianity I believe in.

    1. And this will continue as long as the Christian world sits by and refuses to condemn this abomination. Well said Brian.

    2. Brother, I was part of this cult for many years. This is not Christianity at all. Altough there are some good Christians caught up in this cult, it departed from the faith so long ago, there is not much left.

      1. Agreed….I drank the kool-aid too (and that’s a long story for another day). Peace to all.

  27. 1 Peter 5:8-9(KJV)
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
    Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

  28. Inquiring minds want to know: If the secretary did indeed throw Jack under the bus, was it a church bus and was it on a bus route out bringing the kids to Jesus? (Or Jack?)

  29. If a physical Jesus walked into my church the last thing I’d want from him is a Bible reading, of any version (unless he breaks it down into a “yes, that happened” and “WTF I didn’t say that” analysis).

    I’d prefer to just hear him speak for himself (after he finished his coffee and doughnuts, of course – we are Episcopalians).
    Then we’d all go out for brunch and adult beverages.

  30. Was he really talking about himself? Did he wish his father had been awake and noticed what he was doing?

  31. Being a personal victim (by relation) of the physical abuse, the legit cover up (photo copy of the check written off Jack and Beverly Hyles checking to cover the “need”), and an emotional/mental/spiritual victim of Big Jack and Little Jack as well as those who they kept under their spell, it took me this many years to look into what was going on up there with some of those I cared deeply for and came across all this info. I can say first hand, by conversation myself and one who saw him as though he was the second coming & whom he (JS) had given a blazer to when this person was in college at HAC and pointed out every time he was wearing it, THIS WAS YEARS IN THE MAKING! The things that came out of his mouth to “counsel me” because I kissed my H.S. girlfriend, were just as explicit, graphic and disturbing as his sermon quoted, and (looking back on it) make me wonder if there were more than rumors about Hyles besides what I knew for fact due to a victim being a close family member, JS’s involvement in what he could have been in on even then, and sadly, make me wonder what took him so long. I’m happy to pray for the victim, I know the pain her family is going through. I pray for the family of Hyles and JS for forgiveness. I pray for all those still under the spell of that den of sin. And I pray for myself for all these years later still wishing I could have gotten 2 minutes in a locked room with no consequences with either/or/both of those 2 cowards. I know it’s wrong to harbor this hate, but even before the victimization of my family, I HATED those cowards that manipulated/hurt/took advantage of/fear mongered the weak, and they reinforced that feeling… Even as he surrendered himself, it was with arrogance.
    Can I please get 2 minutes?

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