Chapter and Verse

We have been informed by one of Grice’s church members that since he has begun to lose weight we are no longer allowed to point out that he’s morbidly obese. Given that, I hope it’s at least still permissible to point out that while his displacement in water may have diminished, his penchant for crazy talk has not.

101 thoughts on “Chapter and Verse”

    1. Grice: “Beam me up, Gabriel!”
      Gabriel: “Sorry, Boss, I’ll still have to beam you up in sections, starting with your mouth…”

  1. “while his displacement in water may have diminished, his penchant for crazy talk has not.”
    Epic, FTW, and whatever else one can say to mean: you have an astonishingly hilarious way with words, DD! :lol:

  2. I suppose if you really want to waste your time studying the numbers on the verses (and numbers and I are mortal enemies) to find some kind of coincidence, that’s fine, but what he said at the last I found very offensive. That those who read the KJV love God more than those who read other Bibles. As if those who read other Bible versions don’t love God as much. That’s the typical Fundy attitude, they’re right, everyone else is wrong, and if you really love God you will follow the Fundy way. They’re better than everyone else. Ok fine, that’s great, can we move on now? :roll:

    1. I only got about one minute in and couldn’t stand any more (it is very early here) but my comment is: What a great example of majoring on the minors. Lets don’t talk about what the Bible SAYS OH NOOOO, lets talk about whether the verse numbers were inspired (or RE inspired when the King James Version was immaculately concieved.) What a load of misdirection and smoke and mirrors.

      And secondarily, I’M BACK FROM MY VACATION, DID EVERYONE MISS ME AND BEHAVE WHILE I WAS GONE???

        1. I would have been disappointed with any other answer. Now I have to go and catch up on what-all I missed! I am so glad to have you guys. You have NO IDEA!!!

      1. *I* missed you, and briefly attempted to bring everyone up to snuff on your whereabouts. However, I myself was at Death’s door, so was not here much either. Okay, not at Death’s door. Okay, I only had bronchitis. Okay, I was so buzzed out on the meds I could not focus on the iPad keyboard. WHATEVER! STOP JUDGING ME! :wink: GLAD YOU ARE BACK.

        1. I hope you were still able to be in CHURCH being at death’s door and all. After all, what are a few shared germs among friends this time of year. Fa-La-La-laaaa… And after all, missing church just from being ill might set a prescident to where you might want to miss again when you have had surgery, and then maybe you will just want to sleep in, and soon you will be a sluggard rolling on the hinges of your bed and sleeping through church every week. We wouldn’t want that.
          So, how was the Anglican church? Was it everything you were hoping it would be? (I think I may start calling my pastor “vicar” it just sounds so cool)

        2. @Seen Enough. Glad you are better!

          Death’s Door? Isn’t that the front door of FBCH ? You weren’t THERE, we’re you? :!:

        3. That did not come out right! I had a wonderful marriage, and my late husband was truly the love of my life. I just wish that JACK HYLES had not presided….

    2. Even though I use the KJV and think it is the best English translation could it be that there are so many different translations because God knows that all people are different? One size does not always fit all.

  3. Just because someone has started to lose weight, doesn’t mean he still isn’t obese. Maybe he was super obese and now he is morbidly obese. Here are the classifications:

    Any BMI ≥ 35 or 40 is severe obesity
    A BMI of ≥ 35 or 40–44.9 or 49.9 is morbid obesity
    A BMI of ≥ 45 or 50 is super obesity

    1. I hate to admit it, but this was my very first thought too! I thought, “big deal, so he has BEGUN to lose weight.”

      And hey, don’t blame me, because I learned to judge and be cynical by the best and brightest of FUNdamentalism!!! What’d y expect? Grace and kindess? That’s for compromisers. :roll:

    2. And seeing as how BMI is even crazier than anything Grice has ever said (according to BMI, Tom Cruise is obese), I think the classification is going to be accurate for quite a while yet.

      But good on him for being committed to not being a lard***. Now if he could be equally committed to not being a fathead.

  4. Stuff Fundies Like; focusing on coincidences, numerology, or other minutia while missing the Christ presented in the Old Testament and the New. Sound like any other people group we’ve heard of from time past? Jot and tittle?

  5. Do we really need to concentrate on the man’s weight? Seriously? Let’s focus on the man’s legitimate looniness, not on his outward appearance. That is terribly unkind.

    1. He, as a lot of fundy pastors , deal with weight issues. They are quick to point out the “sins” of others: drinkenness, drug abuse, smoking. While they say “don’t pollute the temple of the Lord”, ignoring the fact that gluttony is also abusing the body.

      1. It’s pretty near impossible to take seriously a sermon about the body being a temple when the sermonator has a body that is an amphitheater……

      2. I tend to read things in context, and I can never get past the fornication mentioned just before the temple of the Holy Spirit (I Cor. 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body). Reading the verses together pretty much ruins the whole idea of applying verse 19 to anything but fornication (???) At least in my Asperger mind (where if it’s not white, then it’s black). Not that overeating may not be a sin, but if Paul wanted to put adultery in a special category, I don’t want to take away from that.
        This really only has become an issue in my mind because of our “good church members” getting on to smoking, as if they have conquered their every temptation….and they always quote that verse about the body being the temple. I hate that! Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a pretty decent Christian, if I may understate, yet he enjoyed the occasional cigarette or cigar, don’t remember now.
        Sorry, got on one of my hobby horses there. :???:

        1. Actually, I agree with you, D. That verse has been ripped out of context and applied to general health and wellbeing (only America could come up with that…), when in fact Paul was contrasting our fleshy temple with the temple prostitutes that seem to have snaggled our Corinthian brethren. This, like any Bible verse, can be taken too far…

    2. I honestly have to congratulate him on his weight-loss. That said, his views are still offensive, controlling, and sometimes hateful.

    3. To the best of my knowledge I’ve never personally brought up his weight as an issue on SFL before this post.

      I only mention it now because someone told me that I can’t. Call me ODD if you must.

    4. He has “begun” to lose weight? Seriously? And so his members say nobody is allowed to comment on it? Let me get this straight – Grice gets to hit anybody in the gut that he wants to, however he wants to. But God forbid that anybody poke him where it hurts.

      I bet his version of weight loss is taking a dump.

  6. Apparently the good pastor has never been to a Jewish synagogue and looked at a scroll. There are no chapters or verses in the scriptures that Jesus would have read.
    I learned that when I took our confirmation kids to temple, and the rabbi showed us a scroll.

    1. Apparently Grice has never studied anything about how or when the Bible was divided into chapters and verses. It wasn’t done under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It wasn’t done by the KJV translators, thought he seems to lead people to that conclusion in this video. The chapter and verse delineations can actually cause confusion if you focus on them being separated. They are not authoritative.

      1. Indeed.

        My jaw dropped when said that the chapters and verses were given by God. I consider myself KJV only or KJV preferred(depending upon the definition), but this concept of God given the verse numbering is silly… I am willing to believe that there are some breaks in the early manuscripts that may be akin to chapters, but certainly not verse numbers.

        He gave ONE verse that listed a “second Psalm”, but that’s a bad example anyway, because each Psalm is distinct. There are probably a dozen or more examples in which the opposite is done; the Bible merely says “…as saith Isaias” or “… as the Scripture saith in Jeremias” or (my favorite) “…as saith the Scripture” – no chapter, no verse given.

      1. I’ve said it before, but …
        I can get along with ignorant people who don’t claim to know more than they do, and I can get along with arrogant people who know what they’re talking about; it’s the people who are ignorant AND arrogant I can’t abide.

  7. yes, he’s right. no human being could have ever numbered those chapters and verses like that. only an omniscient God could have done it. :roll:

    also, since his bible is inspired cover-to-cover and he makes no caveats about that, what about the preface by the translators???? hmmm???

    1. I have met very few KJVOers who have read the preface written by the translators. My theory is that they cannot understand 1611 English, only the 1769.

  8. As someone who is getting a REAL PhD (i.e. doing actual work for it at an actual University) in the Reformation era, I seriously can’t believe someone would be THIS stupid. But then, he does think the KJV is the marker of the person who “really loves God.” Oy!

  9. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone claim that numerology & the chapters & verse numbers were inspired too! I guess when facts don’t matter they just don’t matter.

    1. Numerology: But it is so cool to be able to say something like “The chances of these verses being numbered 6:66 are one in 6 quadrillion…

      Until you actually speak with a Mathematician and find out that it is a lot of bull.

      Once again, it is so much easier to limit our Christianity to reading and combing through a book rather than BEING all that we can be. (with God’s help.)

      …and they will know we are Christians by our… incredible grasp of statistics.

  10. Oh . . . my . . . goodness. Loopy logic, unfounded assumptions, and total ignorance of how the Bible, as we know it, was put together. (WILLFUL ignorance, I would guess.) This is the sort of stuff that a Darrell Hammond sketch on “Saturday Night Live” is made of.

    1. The logic of the number of the beast being 666 (Rev 13:18) and John 6:66 discussing Jesus’ followers not following Him anymore are somehow related escapes me. One is discussing the anti-christ, and the other is talking about Jesus’ followers.

  11. Wow, I’ve never heard that from any fundies before.

    SFL: “simple logic.” (i.e. God knows how many hairs are on your head, so of course he would assign numbers to verses in the Bible!)

    1. Mag, yes, this was a new one for me too. I was in fundy-land my whole life and always was taught that the chapter and verse was NOT inspired. Of course David Grice has some special dispensation I am sure.

  12. I don’t get it. Fundies rail and quail at the occult (however they want to define it), and yet embrace their own version of numerology.

      1. Count the 47th word from the beginning of Psalm 47. Now count the 47th word from the end of the Psalm. I can’t remember if you count the Selah or not. You should get two words – “shake” and “spear”. The year 1611 just so happened to be Shakespeare’s 47th birthday.

  13. What is this Biblical Numerology? Could it just be that chapters and verses were the best way to break things down in order to be able to quickly reference things? Heaven forbid he give an answer such as “Well, because God gave them enough common sense to do so.”

  14. “The hairs of your head…” How can that be a good proof text for number/chapter division? He at least made somewhat of a case with the verse in Acts 13:33.

    The rest of his case was filled with a bunch of (insert whatever).

    I prefer the King James over the other versions, but it is just preference. I think it was most accurately translated and I am used to reading, studying and preaching from it. But that’s usually as far as I go. I cannot stand when people trying to contrive themselves with this numerology garbage. You can find numbers in anything.

    For example: Stuff Fundies Like has the sixth letter of the alphabet 3 times… Stuff Fundies like is 666 and therefore the mark of the beast. And we all know Darrell is the antichrist then.

    It’s just so contrived. BTW the first NT Text with verses was written by Stephanus in 1551 in his edition. Not the KJV translators.

    1. Actually, the Acts 13:33 reference is just as much bunk as the rest of his argument. The Psalms were always numbered and separated by those little titles that most people ignore. They were compiled and put in the order we know today sometime in the intertestamental period (between the return of the Jews after the Babylonian Captivity and the time of Christ). The Psalms were not divided into verses until much later.

      1. I agree, but the Acts 13 reference was at least on the same subject as chapter and verses. The hairs on the head proof text was just wacky.

        1. Especially when it doesn’t mean that God has set down and numbered the hairs on one’s head but that he, in his Omnipotence, established the number of hairs on each and every individual’s head. If it was a mere counting exercise we could get “Rainman” to look at everyones head, “Yeah, Three-million, four-hundred fifty-seven thousand, six-hundred and sixty-six. Definitely the antiChrist, yeah, definitely uses hair color. Judge Wapner comes on at four.”

  15. Stuff Fundies Like: Being ahistorical. This video proves that knowing nothing about how the Bible as we know it came to be, and less than nothing about how and when the chapters and verses were numbered, is no obstacle at all to bloviating on the subject in public.

  16. “That’s why people who really love God, who want to know the most about the Lord Jesus Christ and want to glorify God are carryin’ a King James Bible.”

    According to this garbage, this piece of *&%@ “preacher,” I don’t really love God, I don’t want to know the most about my Lord Jesus Christ, and I don’t want to glorify God.

  17. Good greif what a ig-nor-ray-mooose!
    For this to be a King James Moment he shows his ignorance of the King James. Guess what Davy The King James was not originally divided into Chapters and verses.
    Ignorance and Willful stupidity are not something to BRAG about on YouTube. This does not glorify Christ, promote the Gospel or honor God. This is IDOLATRY! IDOLATRY! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

  18. the logic is cute – someone in Acts mentions the second Psalm (or whichever one he mentioned), and the so called Bible teacher takes that as proof that the chapter numbers where already given by God? The example just so happens to be Psalms, and there’s like 150 of those, so they got numbered. So you jump from there across history and call every chapter and verses inspired. So cute.
    Same faulty logic with the whole preacher deal – God called me, therefore I’m the man of God, so YOU shut up and listen….just because someone hands you a microphone on Sunday morning doesn’t mean you know anything. Boy, I’m crabby. Trying to get off coffee, my pulse/blood pressure don’t need it. BTW, it was trying to live the fundy logic that got me to a place of constant turmoil (looong boring story), but I know that had I not listened to all this crap for so long, I would be healthier. Like I said before, I never took an anti-depressant before getting in church.

  19. I also chuckled at his comment that the new versions skip numbers and/or don’t know how to number properly…

    C’mon, now, the new versions are trying to keep the verse numbers the same as the old standby/reference the KJV. If they decided to remove a verse and DID renumber, different versions would not have matching verses.

  20. Either he’s got a really weird definition of “inspired” or he’s the most continuatist Baptist in the history of man.

    If it’s the latter, given most IFB’s loathing of the Holy Spirit, I have to imagine the Spirit standing up to number the verses and the Father waving him off and saying “that’s OK, I’ve got this one”.

  21. This may have been brought up before, so I apologize if I’m late on this. I KNEW I’d heard this voice before. Hee Haw. Roy Clark. Google, listen and tell me I’m not right.

  22. Was it me, or when he had the “hairs on the head” verse on screen and was talking about it, all I could focus on was his lack of?

    1. He even made a little joke about how he doesn’t have any hair. That doesn’t change the fact that using that verse to somehow imply that the verse numbers in the Bible are divinely inspired requires a leap of illogic of which only the fundiest Fundies are capable.

  23. “The second Psalm,” proves nothing. The Psalms are songs. You don’t say “Turn in your hymn book to chapter 130 and let’s all sing Amazing Grace.”
    What a dufus. To try and pass this crap off as some sort of pseudo intellectual instruction is nothing less than religious fraud. Intellectual malpractice. Christian malfeasance. If only one could bring charges for Practicing preaching without a brain.

  24. Funny he mentions Psalms.

    Did you know:
    The attribution of the Psalms (for example, “A Psalm of David”) is part of the actual Psalm itself? No joke! A Hebrew Bible numbers it as verse one, making English translations offset by one verse, including….

    THE KING JAMES BIBLE!
    :shock:

  25. “I believe that a bunch of coincidences in a row are not a coincidence at all, but in fact, a divine program.”

    So, Mr. Grice, would you say that a bunch of idiotic, baseless heresies in a row on youtube are a coincidence or a divine program. Either way, there IS a divine program for people like that- Revelation 22:18.

  26. I say lets renumber the KJB. That would give fundy pastors a whole new series of sermon material. The number of new ideas of what scripture realy means will keep them busy for years.

  27. Grice makes much of coincidences so this should be right up his street.
    It would be more of a coincidence if coincidences never happened. Think about it …..

  28. I was already giggling @ the opening music & the “King James moment.” Wasn’t KJ gay or bisexual? What kind of video *is* this? I got as far as God inspiring the verse numbers :shock: :lol: and stopped watching. This man truly expects people to take him seriously? Please. :roll:

  29. I haven’t heard the “cover to cover” line since I left those churches. My pastor used to say “I believe this is the word of God from kiver to kiver and I even believe the title page and ‘this book belongs to’ “.

  30. Send this guy to the British Museum to view the oldest Bible in existence and let him see for himself there are no chapter and verses!

  31. What I’m fascinated by is what was edited out. There are 4 or 5 (fairly bad) edits during the video. I hate to think, given the bullcrap that’s just come out of his mouth, what he decided he didn’t want to broadcast.

  32. Pseudo scholarship at its best. Chapter and verse separation in scripture was designed by man around 1200 AD [not all at once - over a period of time] certainly not by God. But fundies can build doctrine on ANYTHING the pastors says…

  33. Ha ha ha ha HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAA…

    Laughed so hard I passed out. This post took half an hour to write because of my black out. Thank David Grice for bringing to light the “doctrine” of page numbering.

    Nope just blacked out again.

  34. Apparently, I’m behind the eight ball here. The ignorance of this so-called “preacher” is astonishing.

    How many years of SFL do I have to paruse before I catch up? I don’t think I can hang on.

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