Church, Preachers

Being Completely and Totally Different From Those Crazy Fundies Who Are Nothing Like Us At All (Not even a little bit)

145 Comments

Bob Jones and Hyles Anderson College are nothing alike. They’re so completely different and separated and not at all the same that Bob Jones III is going to be preaching at the same conference as Jack Schaap and Mike Norris this summer.

I guess as long as they’re on different nights then it’s all good and nobody should get all confused and think that maybe they’re not as different as they’d like people to think that they are.

Update 1: Multiple sources have now confirmed to me that Rick Arrowood has dropped out of the conference upon learning that Schaap was attending. Further updates as they become available.

Update 2: Apparently BJIII has decided to bring Dr. Eric Newton (Dean of Students at BJU) with him as the second speaker.

145 thoughts on “Being Completely and Totally Different From Those Crazy Fundies Who Are Nothing Like Us At All (Not even a little bit)”

  2. Not only is it a different night, it’s a whole ‘nother WEEK! See! We’re not a network!

  3. Grievous. That’s been my parents’ line through all the Schaap crap is that “well, we’re really not at all associated with them; they’re just crazy and everyone knows it”… Yet, they’re die-hard BJ alumni.

  4. Hilarious! They don’t even hear whats coming out of both sides of their mouths…

  5. Area wide… see how inclusive they are? “Area wide” shows that they are fellowshipping with other believers. You know other believers, not those liberal heathens like Catholics, Lutherns, Presbyterians, Methodists and liberal apostate Baptists.

  6. I appreciate the listing of “attendance count” and “attendance increases” as these provide the most relevant assessment of the pastor’s merit.

    1. Don’t forget they have “Dr.” in front of all their names. Also, writing a book or being on a board of some sort is important too!

      2. Honorary Doctorate (whoops, just skip that Honorary part): √
        Attendance figures (not about numbers, but without numbers, we can’t judge how effective we are): √
        Number of books written (doesn’t matter if they weren’t any good, or if we published them in the church basement): √
        Mention of Christian schools and Bible Institutes (more the merrier, bonus for foreign countries mentioned): √
        List of Boards currently serving on (since that sounds important): √
        Obligatory hat tip to the late, great, Dr. Jack Hyles: √

      1. My old IFB, the one that was so incredibly awful, had a serious hang up about numbers. In the bulletin each week there was a complete accounting of exactly how many people were in each SS class the week before, broken down by age, and then how many were in the main worship service. Then they also had a complete accounting of exactly how much money had been given in the offering each week, again broken down by SS class, all the way down to the 2 & 3 year old class. I guess it was important for us to know that they managed to contribute $0.60 on a particular Sunday. That preoccupation with numbers always bugged me.

  9. Interesting to think back to the days of John Wesley and George Whitfiled both preaching together in meetings when they were so far apart on certain doctrines.

    Good or bad?

    Discuss.

    1. Discuss? Or not.

      I think the point of Darrell’s post has passed you by – which is that these individuals claim to be far apart and separated, yet they’re not.

    1. @Apapthetic…no It struck me as very odd too. Sorta dark and crazy. my mental image was someone with a chain around their neck and a caption above their head reading ” me, really, you want me to go”? 😥

    2. I thought that was really odd, too.
      I’ve been to a lot of conferences and seminars, and I’ve NEVER seen anything like that in the descriptions of speakers.

    3. I was thinking a lap dog on speed going, “Pick Me! Oooo Pick Me!”

      Dr. III: “Let me see.. who is deserving of my favors?” as he bends over and watches his pack of lackeys fight for position to insert their Preperation KY-H hair jelled head in his exalted rear-end.

      1. @Don….ewwwww and awesome and I laugh so hard at your posts. I heart your posts Don. 😆

      2. Then all he has to do is look down and see whose tie is dangling out.
        “Oh, it’s you. Walk with me awhile, *heads up I’m making a hard right turn*” 😯

  11. My church didn’t really differentiate between camps, either. We’ve had people from HAC, Bob Jones, Pensacola, West Coast, Champion, Grace Baptist College, Commonwealth, Crown, Ambassador, and Victory Baptist College, among many others. I guess my fundy pastor was a “hybrid” pastor. He went to a secular state college. I didn’t even know the fundy schools had significant differences until I found this site.

    1. It’s funny, my church was almost the same. The only difference was that nobody from BJU came. Although some of our textbooks came from there, but ONLY because Abeka books didn’t have what we needed. It’s almost like they held their nose and looked the other way while ordering the books. Our pastor was a HAC graduate, but he did have everybody else come to speak, and we had reps from Pensacola, HAC, and many other bible colleges come to speak.

      I’m not sure what it was about BJU though…

  12. Dr Bob gets to bring his own speaking buddy? Gee, I wonder who it’ll be. My guess, if he wants to keep things in the same ballpark of crazy already attending, would be Mazak or Minnick. They’re both “Doctors” too, so they’d fit right in.

    4. Well, we KNOW he won’t take any of the actual quality preachers/people who are hidden within the Bible faculty (Crockett, Miller, Cook, Olinger, etc.). They are the best BJU has, but they have their 15 minutes of fame when they get to preach one chapel message per year. If that’s not good enough, well bygosh maybe they should have been born with a name like Bob Wood, Royce Short, Jim Berg, or something like that! They did this to themselves.

      1. Cook was my favorite teacher there outside the music faculty, hands down, but Olinger was my favorite chapel speaker – very real person when you get to know him, too.

        1. i’ll second this – he’s the only fundamentalist i had any respect for.

          in fact, i’m not even sure he could be called a good [read: traditional] fundamentalist – as i remember, he worked at an inner-city church before teaching at BJU.

        2. If you’re referring to Olinger, he was a missionary to inner-city areas, but I agree that he broke most of the rules when it came to BJ professors or fundies in General. Very cool guy.

  13. I wish so badly I could go to this! Because I love throwing hours of my life into metaphorical toilets.

  17. The “Dr.” thing totally bugs me too. There is only maybe one person on that flyer that has an earned degree! Fundies slap honorary doctorates on each other and then go home and order new church stationery. It is so disingenuous and political. You know, I don’t care for Oprah Winfrey but she has honorary doctorates too, but you don’t see her going around calling herself “Dr.” Winfrey. Same thing with lots of other secular people. Fundy world is the only place this happens. 👿

    2. Dolly Parton doesn’t make everyone call her “Doctor Parton,” either, although she, too, has an honorary doctorate.

      2. It’s not limited to fundy pastors, by any means. A lot of ministers love having “Dr.” in front of their name. In my more cynical moments, I wonder whether it’s why seminaries created the professional Doctor of Ministry degree. I know a lot of clergy who have D.Min. degrees, and every one of them touts him/herself as “Doctor.” And, of course, the Doctor of Divinity, being honorary, is REALLY coveted.

  18. It’s because the “disagreements” they have that would keep them from preaching on the same stage on the same day are really stupid disagreements so a lot of what they do is for face, show, and marketing.

  19. Inlaws go to Arrowood’s “church”. I almost vomited when I visited. I wasn’t sure what angered me more, the pastor blithely repeating lie after lie after lie (my favorite is the “alternative history of the KJV text” lie), or the brainwashed masses who just sit there and listen.

    1. I’m curious to know what this alternative history was… and if I’ve possibly heard it before from my fundy friends (they once gave me a version that was different from what I read in my mom’s old KJV).

  20. I love how it says that Gibbs has “the great gift of storytelling” … I’m not sure how wonderful that is if you’re also a well-known lawyer…Sounds sketchy to me.

  21. It’s a good thing that Bob Jones III and Jack Schaap won’t be in the same room at the same time. To have two large egos inhabit the same space at the same time, could cause a tear in the space-time continuum

    1. Triple Sticks is one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet. He really doesn’t have an ego.

      2. During Living Gallery my freshman year, I asked the front and center usher to direct me to my seat. Turns out he didn’t know his right from his left, and I found myself sitting in the middle of the seats reserved for Dr Bob and his entourage. But he couldn’t talk to me himself, he had to go enlist another usher to help this “misguided student” to his proper seat. Yeah, nice guy.

      3. DBIII is a very unwise, cruel, and egotistical manager. I know this from 40+ years experience.

    2. Is there any building on this earth LARGE enough for either of their egos together??
      By the way, anyone have the guts to ask any of these idiots what their dissertation was to get the Dr. degree? 😯

  22. When I was growing up (1975), my youth pastor told us all that it was God’s Will for every young person to go to BJU… not just college, but BJU specifically. Our church would only hire staff that were BJU grads.

    However, let it be noted that each year we took a group to Jack Hyles pastors conference & we cheered for him with fervor reserved for Jesus alone.

    Thank God that he was able to beat that brainwashing out of me years ago.

  23. Wow, one of the “highlights of the conference” is to “meet the speakers personally.” Squueee!! 🙄

    I remember attending a conference a couple of years ago where the speakers spent hours after the service simply talking with whomever wanted to talk with them. No reservation required.

    2. For this one though you have to be a Christian worker in order to meet the speakers. Commoners need not apply.

    3. I’m bringing my Bible to get signed. I can haul on signatures at this conference!

    1. @KKP. OH YES SIR! That is it right there! I hope the pond turns into a puddle and eventually a dried mud hole.

    4. I’m Nobody! Who are you?
      Are you – Nobody – too?
      Then there’s a pair of us?
      Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!

      How dreary – to be – Somebody!
      How public – like a Frog –
      To tell one’s name – the livelong June –
      To an admiring Bog!

      (Emily Dickinson)

  26. Okay, I have to chime in: Arrowood was my pastor as I was walking away from fundamentalism. Much as I really hate a lot about fundamentalism, he was, as far as I could see, a really sweet, genuine person.
    Yes, his doctorate was honorary. No, he didn’t go on about it (and the ppl in the church called him “Pastor” not “Doctor”).

    On a different note: that is a crazy assortment of speakers!

      2. speaking of people knowing people … your husband’s brother was my roommate freshman year.

        best. roommate. ever.

  27. The host church just had this in their June 19th bulletin:

    “This Wednesday evening, we will again receive an offering for the travel expenses for the great men of God who will be with us during our Summer Bible Conference. We still need to raise about $3,000. Please pray about what the Lord would have you invest in this conference.”

    1. And the May 22nd bulletin says that “Pastor has
      invited some of America’s premier preachers to preach.”

      Premier preachers to preach? Say that five times fast.

      1. Wouldn’t it have been more wise to have the money BEFORE inviting all those big names?

        1. Tammy – didn’t you learn nuthin’ in fundyland? 😆
          It’s called stepping out by faith. Kind of like tithing even though you don’t have enough money for the rent, electric, gas, food etc. Or how about Faith Promise™ giving?

    2. I don’t think they really want to know what I think the Lord would have me invest in this baloney-fest, but if they do, I’ll be happy to tell them.

    3. $3000 still to go? that’s more than airfare, wouldn’t it save some money if they put the visiting pastors in church members’ homes instead of hotels. That’s what they do for the missionaries right?

    1. You could tell by watching the interpreter at my old fundie church when the preacher was getting riled up – all of a sudden, her hand motions got really jerky and intense. Kinda funny to watch…

      1. Filling the 7,500 seat auditorium..bwha! Is that why close the entire top balcony every week in the summer and during the school year rope off most of the balcony? Oh lets not go there…fuzzy math, I know.

  31. They got SO ANGRY at the 20/20 story about Tina Anderson because they showed a shot of Schaap preaching: “HE’S not associated with US!” What a bunch of hogwash. They pretend they’re not, but they are. It’s a network.

    1. Those are exactly the words my parents used when that happened… But my dad literally walks out of the room is anything bad about Bob Jones is said. It’s so sad that some people are so blind as to believe that a human institution is always right. 🙁

  32. Tim Schmig once grabbed a guy by the shoulders and forced him against the wall when he though the other guy badmouthed Bob Jones.

  33. An IFB Doctorate… Dr. Do Little. Dr’ Do Little Schaap, Dr. Do Little Gibbs, the late Dr. Do Little Hyles.
    I feel a song coming on…
    Dr. Do Little sang:

    If we could talk to the animals, just imagine it
    Chatting to a sheeple in sheepleeze
    Imagine hollering at a heifer, about her massive dress size
    What a neat achievement that would be.

    If we could talk to the sheeple, teach them our language
    Maybe take a pho-ny, paper mill degree.
    We’d study “Church growth” and “Hay-mens”, “That’ll preach” and “Pants on women is a sin”,
    “Altar calls”, “offerings”, and “How to worship ME.”

    We would converse in King James only and preacher-speak,
    And we could curse the world in fluent IFB.
    If people asked us, can you speak in tongues?
    We’d shout, “No!” (to the top of our lungs) and show them our super spir-it-u-al-ity

    If we could talk to the pew dwellers, teach them our language
    Think of all the things we could decree
    We could manipulate their emotions, give them an experience
    Grunt and squeak and squawk at the animals,
    And they could show how much… They…Love… M-E-E-E-E!

    6. Don, Is that song Copyright? because I really want to steal (or permanently borrow)it and pass it on….

      1. copy-whaaaa? remember all I learned about that stuff I learned in the IFB… 😉
        Have fun with it. 😆 give me a shoutout if you want to (or not) Enjoy

  34. (This is unrelated to the post, but I thought the comments section would be a good place to ask.)

    It’s summer here in NYC, and that means that tons of missionary groups are here. Some appear to be fundies or “extra-biblical” sects like Assemblies of God. Others appear to be regular evangelicals (probably Charismatics), with both men and women dressed in jeans and t-shirts (probably Charismatics :).

    Why do these missionaries come here? The number of NYers they must be able to “save” every year must be really small, so you’d think they’d be better off in (say) Topeka.

    Is it that this is a great big den of sin/unsaved humanity, so this is the place to go? Is it an excuse for a trip to NY? (But, if they’re fundies, aren’t they subjecting themselves to temptation?)

    My guess is that they are mainly targeting tourists, who may be more vulnerable when they’re away from home. Is that right?

    1. It’s an excuse for a trip to NY.

      There may be a lot of them the rest of the year, too, but since a lot of New Yorkers (the ones who can afford to) get out of the city for the summer, the missionaries and tourists are more obvious.

    2. There are lots of people from other countries so it’s like going to a foreign mission field, it’s cheaper than actually going to another country, and if you are with a group that allows you to take one day off to go sight-seeing, New York is a place every one wants to see.

  35. Oops, I wrote “(probably Charismatics)” twice in the above post by accident.

  36. Those claiming to be “seperate” from Jack Schaap and other “crazy fundamentalist” should back out of preaching at this circus of a conference.

  37. I tried going to Aikens’ website but Norton blocked it as a known malicious site. Ironic?

  38. The info on Jack Schaap and FBC is completely made up. I just left there recently, still live in the area, still have friends and family there. People are leaving there by the droves! To my knowledge they have never once completely filled the new auditorium that has them buried in debt. And doubled in size? No flippin’ way! Makes me wonder how many of the other pastors’ stories are outright lies.

    1. Congratulations on your recent liberation from that cult. I would bet a lot of these fundy pastors fluff their stats significantly. They all want to be a big fish in the ever-smaller fundy pond.

      1. Thanks. So glad to be free too. At first it was a little scary, and I wished like anything we could move far, far away, but staying in the area has turned out to be a tremendous blessing. God is allowing me to help others that have recently left or are thinking about leaving. It is an awesome thing to be able to say from a little bit of experience that everything will indeed be ok and that God is not waiting to strike them down for leaving that place.

  39. Rick Arrowood is the pastor of the church that just had the FBFI Conference and is preaching the same night as Jack Schaap.

    It looks like the BJU & HAC crowd are merging.

  40. Looks like circling the wagons to me. They are consolidating because the survivors and escapees are costing them serious numbers and money. Time to manufacture some revival, unity, and peace before we destroy them.

  41. Interesting that “Dr. Bob Kyner claims to teach courses at Atlantic Baptist Bible College in VA. However, ABBC closed several years ago and was taken over by Piedmont Baptist College. Either someone is trying to puff their resume or he seriously needs to update it.

  42. Kind of shocking to see that. I’d always assumed (especially growing up) that BJU & PCC were the sane camps, and wouldn’t ever let something like this happen. Attending PCC was enough to rid me of the idea that PCC & BJU were sane. A decade of living life made me realize how valueless & BJU & PCC were (they don’t, and they teach their followers to not engage anyone outside of their circle for anything but a lecture on praying the sinners prayer). Still hadn’t realized how intertwined they all still are while playing the separation game until the Chuck Phelps disaster.

  43. It would make it a perfect weekend if they included ol’ fat a*s Gomez to really bring the message home…along with about two dozen pizzas!
    Was he banned by these idiots or did he choose to start his own little make believe college on his own?

  44. How about this in the May 8 bulletin of the host church! I can almost see everyone sitting there waiting to see if they can applaud or not! It would be fun to have that much “power”!
    APPLAUSE IN CHURCH
    We would like to ask our congregation to refrain from applauding during church services unless applause is initiated by Pastor. Applause creates
    an entertainment atmosphere that could distract from the heart ministry which should be taking place during special music or during other facets
    of the worship service. A hearty “Amen” would be appropriate in most circumstances. Thank you for your help in this matter.

  45. But, of course, there’s no network. Maybe it’s a notwork. Or a knotwork. Or a KKKnotwork. Or a KKKnetwork.

  46. Wow. Saw “Madison Baptist Church,” and I got confused for a few seconds. The Madison Baptist Church I know of changed their name to New Life Fellowship after discovering that there weren’t anymore Baptists in New Jersey.

  47. Just wondering, wasn’t Bob Jones and the gang in hot water after publishing that mind of God to mind of Man book 10+ years ago. With that being the case would BJU people and BJ 3 not be considered suspect? I just think it’s strange to invite him especially at a conference where the text is Psalm 12:6-7 ? :-/

  48. Piedmont BBC has also done mergers with Baptist University of America(orginally founded in the 70’s by Al Janney and Curtis Hutson ), and Spurgeon BC ( of Mulberry FL) when those 2 colleges closed their campuses.

    1. Piedmont did merge with Spurgeon, but not with Baptist University. BUA, in fact, has reopened as an on-line school. The President of Piedmont is, however, a BUA grad.

  49. I almost lost my breakfast when I saw Gibbs as a speaker. All I can see is his son arrogantly strutting around the court room during the Ernie Willis trial. Oh, and the day he and his son tried to intimidate Tina Anderson by sitting 2 seats away from her at the trial. The DA had to ask them to move. I feel sick every time I hear that name now.

  50. A motley collection of deluded, deadly, dispensationalist, doctors of divinity. You know, the kind of “doctors” that don’t help anyone.

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