107 thoughts on “Fundy Christmas Day 11 Bonus: Just Plain Making Stuff Up Christmas Edition”

    1. This is what good cult leaders do… they make their own interpretations on scripture so that they indoctrinate their herd to hear only what they want them to hear. Welcome to the Cult that Jack built…

  1. I honestly don’t see what relevance this has to *anything* at all. Seriously, who cares what they looked like physically? What does that have to do with anything? Why is Schaap spending 10 minutes on this? Why would he spend one minute on this? IT’S ALL GUESSWORK! ALL OF IT!!

    Schaap talks about grace, mercy, and forgiveness like he has some sort of familiarity with those concepts, but the fruits of his ministry and his own sermons say otherwise. This guy is a raving lunatic.

    1. “I don’t see what this has to do with anything at all.”

      It has everything to do with everything in their movement. The focus on aesthetics is what it’s all about. What did they look like? Evidently success has a look and failure has a look. Mary and Joseph were a couple of losers who didn’t even look good enough to make it into the inn.

      They love the I Samuel verse in the OT. “Man looks on the outward appearance…” Just stop there don’t read any more.

  2. Newsflash, “buck Schaap”, 1) the “gals” in “those days” didn’t get to “look over” the men. 2) *I* have *first* cousins with children *older* than me–they’re in their 40’s-50’s. So, according to your stunning logic acrobatics, that automatically makes it impossible for me to be, oh I don’t know, at least in my twenties?! 3) Innkeepers don’t care how old you are–all they look at is the mullah. Kapeesh?

    1. I am the third youngest cousin out of 30+ on one side. One of my cousins is 40 years older than me. Several of my cousins had children in their teens and maybe even twenties when I showed up. At least one cousin had a grandchild two weeks after my birth.

      Schaap has no clue.

  3. When he calls us women “gals”, it just makes me feel all warm inside… like when I had pneumonia.

    I couldn’t listen to all that crap. I found myself tuning him out and noticing how he’s got the whole looking around the room and putting one hand in his pocket thing down pat.

      1. He is the biggest jerk! He told a friend of mine that he had no business in the ministry, and didn’t deserve a girl from HAC, because of his past life before he got saved. Guess Schaap was sinless?

        1. I’m betting that if he’d been in the crown when Jesus said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone,” that poor woman would’ve been out cold in about 8 seconds flat. Depending on how close he was to the pile, that is {wry grin}

        2. I’m so sorry, Jesse. I have friends that have been told that in other places. It’s enough to make you wanna have a fit.

    1. I love it when fundamentalist find something no one else finds. And by no one I mean absolutely no person who has ever walked the earth. These are the great nuggets of fundamentalist theology. They provide the foundation for the inane dribble that flows thoughtlessly from their mouths.

      From one person who has ceased to think to those who have been forced to. The circle of fundy life.

  4. Surprised he used the apocrypha as a reference. His info he quoted can be found here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Joseph

    The Protoevangelium was extremely popular, but it leaves open the possibility that Joseph might have had relations with Mary after the birth of Jesus (“she is not yet my wife…”). A few centuries later the developing doctrine that Mary was a virgin not only at the time of the conception and birth of Christ, but throughout her life, meant that this possibility had to be excluded. The apocryphal History of Joseph the Carpenter, written in the 5th century and framed as a biography of Joseph dictated by Jesus, describes how Joseph, aged 90 (the Protoevangelium had not given Joseph a specific age), a widower with four sons and two daughters, is given charge of the twelve year old Mary, who then lives in his household raising his youngest son James the Less (the supposed author of the Protoevengelium) until she is ready to be married at age 14½. Joseph’s death at the age of 111, attended by angels and asserting the perpetual virginity of Mary, takes up approximately half the story.[42]

  5. What Jack Schaap is saying doesn’t even make sense! “There was no government assistance, no hand outs”…. so girls just waited around until their golden years to get married’!?!? Can people in this church not tell the difference between God’s Word and a bunch of bull poop that Schaap has thrown together? 😯 THEN HE CALLS THEM FACTS!!?!? HA what a pile of poo…Schaap is a heretic! 👿

    Shaap’s remarks about Joseph are unsupported by Scripture. Schaap neglects Matthew 1:19 calling Joseph a “just” man, or upright, approved, faultless. Along with Joseph’s immediate & thorough obedience thereafter indicate Joseph is not at all a disappointment from the wrong side of Samaria. Also, recall that God spoke directly to Joseph –an exceptionally exclusive credential. Also, history says that Mary and Joseph had at least 7 other children after Jesus. The Bible names Jesus’ 4 half-brothers, and he had at least 3 sisters! If Joseph was around 80 when Jesus was born, Joseph was one spry senior citizen.

    1. Most fundies I know are so caught up in minutiae, they can’t see the big picture. He just wants to impress people with his “knowledge.” Problem is, there’s no scholarship to back up anything he’s saying. Might as well be a schizophrenic free associating.

      1. Calling out Biblical language scholars. I was told that the words translated as “brothers and sisters” in our English Bible was the same word in the Biblical language “cousin.” Does anyone know, if this is true or false?

        This was told to me last night, by a fundy who received his honorary doctorate from Hyles. 🙄

        1. I hope George lets this go in the right place!

          Kitty-I’m not a Bible Scholar but the answer is..sort of. I believe the Hebrew language had no word for cousin such as we know it. Everyone was considered a ‘brother’. Remember how Lot was called “The brother of Abraham’? It meant a close family member.

          And that has led to a lot of interesting debates. 🙂

        2. The word “cousin” just means “kinfolk” – it is used 12 times in the New Testament, and only twice translated “cousin” (the rest of the time is some variant of “kinfolk”.

          The word is never translated as “Brothers and Sisters”, so I’m guessing that what you heard was some garbled version of what “cousin” means.

          Hope this helps!

  6. I am making a resolution that the next time I’m in a service where somebody like this is making things up I’m going to raise a public protest. Schaap and his clones have brought me to a “Network” moment.

  7. What an absolute load of CRAP!!! 😯

    No Biblical support for his position in any way shape or form. And to have the gall to call these “FACTS” is almost beyond belief!!

    Officially stopped around 4 minutes in … I don’t care what his point might be.

  8. Notice how he keeps smiling while he weaves his tale. He’s lying and he knows it… he is on a pulpit high while he tell this story, knowing he has His People eating out of his hand. By the end he could tell them that he is the Christ and they would believe him. David Koresh has nothing on Jack. The power of the Pulpit is intoxicating and he is drunk with it! And why do the people believe him? Because he has studied it out… he is the authority, he is the M-O-g…
    God save us from Pulpiteers like this!

        1. The above post was responding to Schaap…not Don’s post above it.

          As for the youtube video, there are a few names missing.

        1. Finney is the Father of Decisional Regeneration, the Father of Americanized Revivalism, and a Pelagian. The Fundies love him for his so called revival techniques. Finney was one of the first to embrace the Temperance movement as well. It was a boon to his attendance numbers and he knew it. So, you have the perfect storm of Temperance marrying up with the decisional gospel Finney was preaching for a match made by human hands. He instituted the “Altar Call” as well so he could keep up with the numbers.

          The temperance movement itself was as much about the political aspirations of the Suffrage movement as anything else. By joining up with a strong religious fervor, masses of people could be moved to action.

          Both of these two movements we see being exemplified in Billy Sunday. Sunday was a national voice for Prohibition. If you watch his antics and read his sermons, or watch some of his sermons for that matter, you will find he rarely used a Bible to preach from. Billy was the Godfather of Preachertainment, and here again, you see with Sunday the emphasis on numbers. {if you get the opportunity watch Elmer Gantry as it was somewhat based on Billy Sunday. }
          http://persifler.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/your-favorite-fighting-fundy-as-the-black-knight/

          If you wish you can connect the dots on down through Mordecai Ham, and his most famous disciple, as well as Bob Jones, Lester Roloff, and a host of other old timers that preached the temperance gospel.
          Now, did God us these men? I’m sure God saved many in spite of the decisional gospel and Preachertainment these men used. (I would caution anyone who says they were saved under a particular man’s so-called ministry [cf I Cor. 1:10-17; I Cor.3] to be sure they are “in Christ” and not merely the emotional or experiential product of someone’s preaching style.) Many were sincere men and many were empire builders, and just as we all will stand before God one day and we will all give an account of our ministry. (cf Ephesians 4)

      1. thanks for the explanation, makes more sense now 😀

        i’ve been holding to philippians 1.18 in regard to fundamentalism. whether out of pretense or truth, at least christ is proclaimed, no matter how weakly that may be.

  9. What a nice Christmas gift! The truth turns out to be stranger than that fiction they have in the Bible which we all know even in the King Jimmy was clearly all wet on the Christmas story, much thanks to Schaap for straightening that nonsense out. King James is inspired until the MOG decides to go free styling, then the MOG apparently is the new inspired, and Scripture corrected. I hope Jack enjoys his Christmas gifts.

  10. And Joseph her husband, BEING A RIGHTEOUS MAN and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. (Matthew 1:19)

    The Bible declares Joseph was a righteous man, not a middle aged loser looking for a little action. Schaap just makes this stuff up. It just steams me when I hear this trash. Especially knowing that so many are taken in by this fraud of a MOG.

    1. It’s like what Gothard does when he says what Abigail did was bad even though the BIBLE says she was wise. It’s bad enough that a man preaches stuff like this, but what I can’t get over is how hundreds will sit and listen and accept it.

  11. Okay… I don’t get it. If Mary wasn’t much of a catch, how come she was suspected of adultery and becoming pregnant by another man? Must have been some guy older and more desperate than Joseph hanging around town.

  12. So, if Joseph died before we see Jesus at age 33 because “old age captured him” then death by extreme old age was the most common cause of death 2000 years ago? This guy makes more assumptions than an evolutionist studying a fossilized tooth!

    1. At least evolutionists have some science to back up their assertions. Schaap’s “truth” is pulled out of the imagination of some 5th century writer and his own nether regions.

  13. First Baptist Church? More like First Blab-tist Church! This dude gives me the creeps. Also, I thought his name rhymed with cop, not crap. But crap is definitely more fitting.

  14. And what’s up with him saying “the truth and matter is…” That makes no sense!!! He means, “the truth of the matter is…” Anyways, that really grated on my nerves. The man is a train wreck.

    1. If you have to preface your statement with “the truth is”, “the truth of the matter is” or something like “honest injun!” You’re probably lying through your teeth. However, he seems very comfortable with it.

    1. By making Mary & Joseph into sexually obsessed old pervs he most likely is justifying (in his own mind) his own less than laudable desires, and of the other fundy pervs.

      1. Having sat in on a handful of men-boys only sessions with Schaap at the youth conferences my home church used to have, I can testify that without a doubt the man is obsessed with sex. I am not accusing him of any particular sin, but the things he said, and more importantly the way he said them, left no doubt with me about how his mind works. And that was almost 20 years ago. Clearly little has changed.

  15. “Looked over by all of the gals”–huh? Girls didn’t pick their husbands, their families did.

    Joseph should have been living in Jerusalem because he was of royal lineage? What? Show me where all of David’s descendants were wealthy.

    My Orthodox friends believe that Joseph was older and had already outlived one wife before he married Mary. Hence, the brothers and sisters listed in Scripture are actually his older step-siblings, according to them. Which is all kind of silly. They have about as much support for their theory as Schaap does for his, which is zero.

    1. Not really silly. If you sit down and talk to someone from the Orthodox or Catholic church who is educated in what their traditions teach and really knows their ‘stuff’ they will give all kinds of ‘support’ for their positions…

        1. As someone with lots of Catholic and Orthodox friends who know their stuff, I still agree with you.

          I even read one of their books once that came highly recommended. So much of what they say sounds SO good.. and then they lose you with all their myths and traditions that are written and verified by nobody but themselves, and of course are usually a complete distraction from Christ.

        2. I’m not talking about myths and legends. I was speaking about historical documentation and scripture references. Things the early Christians believed. A lot of what we accept now as fact are actually recent ideas…probably brought about by people like Schaaps.

      1. I’ll give Orthodox and Catholic Christians more credit for the position, since at least they have history and tradition for support. Jack has none of that. He’s just out for a good story. No credit for making stuff up.

  16. The thing I don’t understand about this is WHY? I just cannot think of why you would add to the story. Doesn’t that make everything more complicated the next year when he has to repeat all that, and might leave some out? lol.

  17. Maybe he gets tired of the same old story and wants to make it more real or more interesting.

    The few times I’ve heard clips of him, he always manages to insult women. Calls them “gals,” says Mary was older and must not have been all that attractive cause she didn’t have a man yet. How would that make you feel if you were 30 or so and not married yet?

    And that guy behind him-is he really nodding his head in true awe of what he’s hearing, or does he have to keep up the charade that it all makes sense?

    1. The guy behind him is there for a reason, to affirm whatever Jack says.His continued employment at HAC or FBCH depends on his ability to be a visual aid to the people.
      This set-up is specifically for production purposes. If the courtiers were in the audience then their adulation would go unnoticed. No these sycophants are there to be visual reenforcement for the M-O-g.
      It also serves another purpose, to get the audience’s reaction, They can see who is saying hay-men and who may need to get right with gid and Jack. This is a CULT. The CULT that Jack built.

        1. Yeah, that bright bow tie caught my eye for the briefest of seconds given my brain the rest it needed to be able to continue on.

  18. “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” – Adolf Hitler

    “The most common lie is that which one lies to himself; lying to others is relatively an exception” – Friedrich Nietzsche

    “I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.” – Fox Mulder

    “When Burns stops lying about us, we’ll stop telling the truth about him.” Matt McKenna

    By a lie, a man…annihilates his dignity as a man. – Immanuel Kant

    He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time till at length it becomes habitual.- Thomas Jefferson

    Lying is a terrible vice, it testifies that one despises God, but fears men. – Michel Eyquem De Montaigne

    Lying is a terrible vice, it testifies that one despises God, but fears men.
    Michel – Eyquem De Montaigne

  19. “Facts are funny things, aren’t they. And when you start searching the scriptures and doing the research you find out that there’s probably quite a bit of truth to what I’m saying”

    If only his congregation would take up that challenge..not just on this topic.

  20. A meaningless job? Carpentry is a meaningless job? How come people in other cities knew about Joseph and knew that Jesus was Joseph’s son?

    This is probably one of the worst examples of Fundy preaching I’ve ever heard.

  21. So….Joseph should have overlooked potential sin?

    Jewish law said Mary was to be killed if she committed adultery! But oh no, Joseph was hardhearted!

    Why why why WHY are we worrying about this??

  22. My cousin’s daughter is my age. My cousin is my mom’s age. This makes no sense whatsoever. With Tom, I ask why this is relevant. I can’t see any context in which it is possibly justified to spend 10 minutes on Mary and Joseph’s looks and attacking traditional interpretations of the Christmas story. I think they do it to make themselves look smart in front of the sheeple. I have a clip from Prince of Egypt in my head having to do with smoke and mirrors in my head every time I see things like this.

  23. I watched this for the first time two days ago and still haven’t been able to fully recover. Who are the people that fill the pews of that church? Are none outraged? Sheesh!

  24. Just got introduced to Jack Schaap today (on the Internet I mean). Absolutely appalling. One of the videos had a shot of these teenage girls sitting rapt in the audience as he spoke. Sickening.

    I’m not much of a gambler, but I would bet that within 2 years he will be crying to his congregation about how he was “seduced” by one of these girls, then he will run her devoted family out of the church, then explain how he has the right to stay in the pulpit cuz it was her fault, not his.

  25. Notice that he doesn’t preach from notes. If he did he would preach for about 3 minutes. Not having notes allows him to make up stuff on-the-fly – it’s an impromptu message – “made or done without previous preparation; suddenly or hastily prepared. (dictionary .com)”

  26. Did anyone else notice the word “extrabiblcal” said within the first 10 seconds?!?!
    My heart hurts for God as this story is told… I can’t imagine how He feels about this “version” of His prophecy being divinely fulfilled….
    Nope. It was just an old man looking for loving with a “looked-over gal”.
    Sick, sick, sick!!!
    His fixation with old people and “loving” just gave me the creeps.

  27. One thing here that REALLY gets me steaming mad:

    “No welfare, no government handouts…”

    You self-righteous SOB! As a liberal, need I remind you that they’re not “handouts”, they’re the government helping people BECAUSE THE FUNNYMENTALIST CHURCHES DON’T BELIEVE IN “CHARITY”.

    Bugger off you windbag.

  28. *facepalm* 🙄 🙄 🙄

    So, first he lays down a false foundation for his sermon, one for which he provides no support what-so-ever. Of course, he tries to make it sound like it is well founded by mentioning the phrases “studying the Bible” and “extra-Biblical literature”, but he doesn’t actually mention how or where either of these sources support his assumptions. Then he builds a sermon on those false assumptions. Which means, of course, that the whole sermon is a flop if even one of those assumptions is false (and he can’t prove a single one of them). What a perfect example of a preacher coming up with what he wants his sermon to be about, and then twisting verses to fit his (not God’s) message. 😥

  29. It’s all about making Christ more “powerful” somehow because He came from a bad background….Schaap thinks he is “reclaiming” the true Christ. In reality he is just filling time.

  30. I think he is offhandedly talking about himself, an older man who takes a very young girl. For 2000 years, church tradition says Jospeph was between 25-35, and Mary was 15-18, which was marriagable age. He says Mary was a senior age? How asinine.

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