140 thoughts on “Strategic Soulwinning”

  1. Stucky is a disciple of Steven Anderson so this should surprise no one.

    1-2-3-Repeat after me evangelism is so dangerous. Many will come to Christ and ask to be let into heaven one day, He will reply I never knew you…get away from me. (see Matt 7)

    1. While the statement is true (Christ will say I never knew you to many people), the reason is not because “they prayed a prayer” but because they were trusting in works that they had done (even works in Jesus name). There is no indication that the people were immoral in any sense, but simply that they had established their own righteousness (and all our righteousness are filthy rags and iniquity – Isaiah 64:6).

      Many people who use that verse are represented in it. They constantly talk about works done for God, and “making Jesus Lord” (He is already), and doing works to prove your salvation, and quoting this verse… but they are the people in it.

      Anyway, that wasn’t a defense of 123 prayer evangelism. That’s just as bad as works salvation (well, it is in a way, because emphasis is on the prayer and the words).

      1. You may have misunderstood lordship salvation. We can both agree that salvation is by the grace of God alone through faith in Christ.

        Where we may disagree is that I feel that if you are truly saved and have the Holy Spirit living in you then there will be a change in your desires and life in general. You obviously won’t be perfect, but you will be in the process of sanctification. To deny that is to discount the power of the Holy Spirit and His work in the heart of the believer.

        So the change in your life obviously doesn’t save you, but it is the fruit of the Spirit living in you.

        I had your viewpoint for most of my life though, so I do know where you are coming from…but I respectfully disagree.

        1. Respectfully, I don’t think you shared my viewpoint (nor understood me). I don’t want to argue because I am sure we have more in common than in disagreement, but the pure grace position does not teach that there will not be a change (I know you didn’t say it, but you implied it by saying Lordship does, and we disagree).

          Of course there is a change. There can’t not be. But the main reason I disapprove of the Lordship view is that it encourages constant examination of other believers. A believer is judged as “true” or “false” based on their works – a shaky foundation to be sure. And the level of works that is required to show “true saving faith” is usually the same level of the person doing the judging.

          To me, Lordship Salvation is Ray Comfort ranting about the law (and inspiring a million fools to do the same), Paul Washer ranting about everyone in church is unsaved (and inspiring thousands more to do it too – too many people worship that man). The kids I know that are into Lordship Salvation live from one Tim Conway sermon to the next, and doubt their salvation non-stop, wondering if they are saved because they have sinned recently and a “true Christian” would never sin the same sin twice. One of them eventually gave up, and now makes Atheist videos on youtube (he was quite a popular youtube “evangelist” too – now his own crowd condemns him and throws acid and vitriol over him).

          I’ve seen the fruits of Lordship preaching and I want nothing of it. I’ve also seen the fruits of Stucky’s kind of preaching (trust me, it’s not pure grace – it’s works sanctification and salvation – do something to get saved, do something to prove you are saved).

          Pure grace of God is salvation with no conditions attached. When you bear fruit, you shouldn’t be aware that you are. When you sin, God’s grace is there to catch you and draw you back, without condemnation, without fear of punishment (chastisement is not punishment – God is not going to give me a disease or kill my children if I sin). God has said “you are forgiven of ALL your sins”. Jesus has made a “once for all sacrifice” for all sins, past present and future. And if that Grace doesn’t move you to serve, love and obey God, I don’t know what will.

          So I guess we are probably more in common than you think. I don’t think it’s as black and white as “I’m pure grace, oh, I’m Lordship Salvation” and we are either one of the other. There are degrees. A lot of the kids on youtube who follow Comfort and Washer and Conway aren’t even saved – they are going about establishing their own righteousness and the theology of those men appeals to their intellects. I don’t know of any Christian, free grace, pure grace, lordship, that says we can sin because we are forgiven.

          There will be some seeking an excuse for their sin, but they fall into every “camp”. But those seeking freedom from sin will only find it through Grace, not law, not keeping law, and not trying to exhibit fruit.

          I had a quote on my facebook page recently.

          “If you are “trying” to produce fruit it will only reveal to you how little or no fruit you have. People think that because they are now saved that they can fart out a fruit when all of their efforts merely produce a stinky fruit that God doesn’t accept (excuse the language). When a person trusts Christ is when they bear fruit.”

          God bless πŸ™‚ I honestly didn’t mean to sound aggressive, because I honestly disagree with Matthew Stuckie’s approach to evangelism, but I also disagree with the fruit inspecting done by many kids in the “Nu Calvinism” (which seems to be mainly Lordship folk).

      2. In Matthew 25, the Lord Jesus at the judgment does list the works of those who are saved. He even points out that these works were done fro the least of His brethren. What surprises His Beloved People is that He has accounted these works as being done directly on His behalf. He expressly condemns the damned for not having done these same works and expressly assigns guilt to them because in failing to do such works for the least of His brethren, they have directly failed to serve Him.

        So the Bible does teach that salvation is manifested by works.

        1. Different judgments. Why does that Judgment take place on Earth while the Judgment of Revelation 20-21 takes place in Heaven (after the Earth has fled away). That judgment only has the living nations gathered before Jesus, whereas Revelation 20-21 has the living and the dead from all of time.

          And PolishedShaft, I don’t know what you actually disagree with me on in the post above.

        2. Also, like I said (but you didn’t read it), people exhibiting fruit won’t be aware they were exhibiting fruit, which is what that chapter says, if you want to take it as a judgment of believers. They say “when did we do this Lord” and are surprised that they had this fruit and had done these works.

    2. The first thing I noticed was how much he *sounds* like Steven Anderson – voice, intonation patterns, pauses, everything. It’s really kind of eerie how much they sound alike.

      1. The book of Revelation was written for early Christians as a warning about the evils of the Roman Empire. It is not a prediction of the future. I think Christianity would be better served if it was removed from the canon.

        1. No doubt. Trying to forget Diomitian (SP?), so you can claim it’s about the United Nations or whatever the suspect du jour is, is pretty insulting.

        2. Would the be Domitian? A quick search looks like that’s who you mean. Thanks for the reference, I need to check him out relative to Revelations. πŸ™‚

        3. Because the destruction of earth already happened in the past? I am sorry but there are things in Revelation that has not happened yet…and therefore would happen in the future. Unless you think Revelation is strictly speaking about spiritual things. But that would be a really weird interpretation of it.

          Besides the fact that it’s a moot point to say that Revelation was written for early Christian as a warning to the Roman empire… Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. Corinthians was written for the Corinthians. Galatians was written for the Galatians etc. That doesn’t mean that we can throw those books out of the Canon because it no longer applies to us late Christians. Just throw the OT out while you are at it.

        4. PvR,
          I don’t think that the word prophesy means what you think it means. It is not a prediction of what is to come but a warning of what might happen.

        5. I agree. Prophecy is not a prediction about the future, it is speaking truth to power about the present times.

  2. “And younger kids are much more likely to get saved. So look for younger kids playing.”

    Translation: “Younger kids haven’t developed critical thinking skills yet. We can take advantage of that, because if we tell ’em they’re going to hell if they die today, they’ll believe us. Soul-winning record, yeeeeaaaaahhhh!!!!!”

        1. But that’s the whole idea! You get arrested and God sees that you can start an exciting prison ministry! And if you get shanked in the yard once the other inmates find out what you’re in for, then that just means God is so pleased with you that He wants you to get your reward early!

    1. I just had this thought come to me….Isn’t it funny how the fundies (even non-fundies) will scream about how gay people are trying to recruit our kids?

      Yeah….my daughter is 8 and has been approached by ‘soul winners’ several times. Not once has she been approached by a gay person.

  3. Wow. He advises going after the young, the ones that are separated from others, the ones that don’t have anywhere (a house, in this case) to retreat to.

    What is this, a safari?? Are we poachers or something? 😐

        1. @phile ftw! Catholics are always in season, at the very least archery, but usually rifles are fine too! πŸ™‚

        2. Aww man now I pulled a George by spelling George’s name wrong. Is there some kind of Holloween curse of George that comes every October?

        3. Not intrntionally, am doing a lot of commenting from my droid with no dsl avail at home, and it doesn’t do spellcheck that I can tell.

        4. @RobM it doesn’t do spell check that we can tell either.. πŸ˜‰

          btw, george is a keyboard/interwebs pooka. Elwood P. Dowd introduced him to me years ago and we have been best friends ever since. 😯

        5. Never seen that movie, may have to, but I def need to uninstall the George app on this phone, he’s killing my grammar integrity! πŸ™‚

      1. Thanks, exIFB. I feel the same way. It’s so weird for me to be EXCITED about going to church now, and to be able to sit through an entire service without a single guilt trip … God truly is good.

        1. Not being convicted of sin = good thing. Conviction means to “declare guilty”. The Holy Spirit never convicts you of your sin. You are not guilty of any sin you ever commit after being in Christ (I mean in the judicial sense, of course we still feed bad) He convicts you of your position in God. The Holy Spirit never condemns. He is a comforter in time of need (which is always!).

          The Holy Spirit does convict some people of sin – the world of unbelievers (John 16).

          Our flesh and the law through our conscience is enough to convict a believer of sin – we feel condemned – we feel guilty – we feel bad. What we need then is to be convicted of who we are in Jesus Christ, so that we may not fear to boldly approach the throne of grace and thank God for the forgiveness and righteousness we have already received.

    1. Nice blog post! πŸ˜€ I wish more people would share the Gospel in this way, instead of scaring kids into getting saved to avoid Hell. I think a lot of people are being cheated out of a true relationship with Jesus Christ because of the scare tactics used by many “soulwinners.” πŸ™

  4. Some observations.

    1. There is something about the outside, fresh air that serves as a conduit for the Spirit to work better. “The wind/spirit blows where it wants”

    2. Not sure what’s wrong with his arm.

    3. Should I witness with a rapping style? πŸ˜†

  5. Somehow I doubt the Lord is as impressed with this guy’s -and his friends’- soulwinning records as they are. 13 in 4 hours!! Sadly, I used to think that way, but I was never that “successful.”

    1. I don’t know what religion says “soul winners” (not God or Jesus) have the power to save people’s souls, but whatever religion that is sure isn’t Christianity.

    1. This isn’t easy believism. This is just false doctrine – quick prayerism, abc pray after me. If that’s what you call easy believism, then I guess it is. But salvation isn’t hard. It is as simple as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as sin bearer, saviour, redeemer etc (no prayer needed). Getting to that point where you realise you need Jesus is the hard, nay, impossible bit, without the Spirit of God.

      I’m not sure what the alternative to “easy believism” is – “hard believism”?

      1. exIFB, “easy believism” is a fairly common term for “123-repeat-after-me-you’re-saved!”. In your words “quick prayerism, abc pray after me”. The term does not mean that we believe in a difficult believism – it’s just what that method of evangelism has come to be called by a lot of us. I think I first heard the term several years ago on another discussion forum.

      2. You are right, the term can sometimes be misleading; but as far as I have seen it used it often dose refer to this.

        I use the term Γ’β‚¬Λœeasy believismÒ€ℒ for a kind of numbers-based evangelism that isnÒ€ℒt concerned with making sure a person truly understands or truly believes. It utilizes manipulation to simulate the Spirit bringing someone to God.

        Because the sales pith is designed to get people to pray a prayer whether the Spirit is working or not, it is often as spiritual as selling girlscout cookies. For this reason sevral things often happen:
        1) the people genuinely or artificially saved under this method are often abandoned to find their own way from that point Γ’β‚¬β€œ sanctification is seldom a high priority
        2) their faith is not held to the Biblical standard of producing works
        3) if they were not genuinely saved at that point, they are discouraged from doubting their experience or looking into the matter further

        Those who have undergone a conversion experience yet have no proof of it should examine themselves to make sure their calling and election are sure Γ’β‚¬β€œ not just look in the front cover of their Bible where they wrote the date they prayed a prayer.

        BTW: People are saved despite this format, I am not deigning this. And we are to rejoice in any who come to our Lord.

        1. To summarize, as I understand easy believism, the reason it is often referred to as such is not a deigning of the necessity or ease of believing, but critisizing the lack of moving on from the initial belief or acting on it.

          Ò€œYou believed! Good job. Well, thatÒ€ℒs about it Γ’β‚¬β€œ see you in Heaven!Ò€

        1. I’m glad, exIFB. I’ve only been out of Fundyism for about five months now, but I’ve finally had enough time to think some of this stuff through and find a way to post it without pointing fingers.

    1. Jeez, there’s a substantial portion of their credo given to homosexuals. Methinks someone is protesting too much…
      Also, their beliefs contradict each other. What of someone like myself, who was born again at fairly young age and then, once sexually aware, realized that I was gay? According to them, I can’t lose my salvation (sorry, the argument that I wasn’t saved to begin with doesn’t hold water), but I’ve also been rejected by God (I realized I was gay at age 12: nothing in my life to that point would fit the Romans 1 reasons for God turning people over to a reprobate mind) and can’t be saved. Getting whiplash here from all the contradictions!

      And I’m not looking for a discussion on what people think the Bible says (or seems to say) about homosexuals. (John, don’t start!)

      1. “And IÒ€ℒm not looking for a discussion on what people think the Bible says (or seems to say) about homosexuals. (John, donÒ€ℒt start!)”

        So why’d you start it then?
        πŸ˜‰

        1. You just couldn’t resist, could you? It’s usually middle-schoolers that are that obnoxious, but you’re giving them some good competition.

    2. Wow, there are some really hateful articles on that site. I wonder if these people team up with Fred Phelps and his crowd. It will be interesting when (not if) one of these Young Baptists is caught with a “wide stance.” It seems that those that spew hate the loudest are trying to run from themselves.

    3. From the article on Santa’s reindeer being “queer”:

      [quote]According to the Bible homosexuality should be punishable by death. I would be overjoyed if every single queer in the entire world died today. The Bible makes it clear they are reprobates who are past the point of salvation. The Bible also makes it clear they are rapists & very wicked people. They have no chance to get saved and no saved person could ever become a queer. Therefore, I would be overjoyed if they all died tonight & our government would actually follow what the Bible states. The death penalty should be enacted for the queers.[/quote]

    4. These hateful little groups are all so cultish, you’d think they’d join up. I’m sure they love it when Westboro holds up their hateful signs, but they probably separate from each other for other reasons… like maybe the Westboro family believes Jesus had a mullet and wore shorts.

    5. Good gosh. In the article against Calvinism, apparently in an effort strike balance:
      “I am not Armenian. If you are an Armenian you ARE NOT SAVED.”

      L.O.L.

    6. I just love how they’ve got a verse next to each one of their “We believe” statements…except for this one:

      “Jesus had short hair and wore pants.”

      What’s the matter, couldn’t find any references in your Strong’s Concordance??

    7. I was reading their article on Calvinism, and they list a ton of verses to “disprove” TULIP. Has anyone else noticed that almost all their verses either have nothing to do with the points they are “refuting,” or else actually help to prove them? Like, Jude 1:1 to disprove the Perseverance of the Saints? Not to mention they don’t really define any of the terms correctly.

      1. Some people who left our church did something similiar – tried to prove we were wrong by using a verse completely unrelated to the situation (a verse which we completely agreed with, of course). Sigh.

    8. They’re against Bible colleges 😯

      And the reindeer article: is writing “and” so hard? And Fred is gay in Scooby Doo?! Since when….
      They have Al Lacy’s book on there: he preached at my church’s latest conference, but I missed it.

  6. Was in a church like this for years – all about having good numbers and bragging about what people do. Being a horribly shy person, it was like torture to do cold calling. I was fearing for my sanity, so I stopped going and was promptly cold-shouldered by the rest of the “loving” brothers and sisters at church. The lack of fellowship made me miserable, and I was guilt-ridden for the belief that it was all my fault for not going. Not going also kept me from doing any service, since even the lowliest job required one to to go out each week.

    They had plenty of salesman tips and awards for salesman of the year — it was all about selling something; their “tips” worked as well on anything. And yes, we had the same children “saved” repeatedly.

    I’m out of that environment now; enjoying fellowship and love from my brothers in Christ, but still carrying a lot of baggage.

    1. HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Sorry, I really did laugh out loud. And I am at work. Fundy’s hating Fundy’s. The second one is just great. “wow”.

      What a quote. These guys are all about that. I used to debate with them on youtube when I was a fundy. I asked how throwing the NIV demonstrated the love of God. I got called a faggot and a queer among other things.

      It’s really sad to see this. I guess this is what people saw in me when I was at a fundy church. Although, I don’t remember defacing peoples faces on tracts.

  7. Darrell – I feel like you have cheated us. This is only his soul-winning tip #11. What about tip #’s 1-10? You have left us in the dark. I only know that I should be outside πŸ˜†

  8. “Did I mention enough that…it is the people *outside* that are far more likely to get saved. Just thought I’d mention that one more time in case you didn’t get it the first several times when I said that people *OUTSIDE* are far more likely to get saved.”

  9. I will never forget the first person I “saved” when I was in that cult of a church that sent little girls (12 and 13) to the streets to talk to people. An old guy (who i now believe was pedafile) came up to US (duh) and wanted to talk to us privately!!! So of course us nieve young girls follow this guy to a small alley and “won him to Christ”. We told the adults about it when we got back and NO ONE even considered the fact that we were being stalked be a freak, and that he was just listening to what we had to say because he was trying to do something bad to us! UNBELIEVABLE!!

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