81 thoughts on “Soulwinning Dogma”

  1. I remember when I was in first grade, in Baptist school, and we were having our Bible class with Mrs. Smoker. A bee flew in the window and made a few circles around the room and then flew back outside. Mrs. Smoker told us that the bee was Satan 👿 trying to distract us. It’s something how I remember that. I still believed in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy at the time.

    1. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh – when I was little our church had this big meeting with a guest preacher and all. It was really hot, so they had the doors open. A crow flew in, pooped on a couple of congregants, and flew back out. And people were CONVINCED the devil had sent that bird!

  2. When I was at BJ, there was a bat flying around in the FMA during an Artist Series. It was swooping over the audience and through the orchestra, and of course people were reacting to the bat and ignoring the classical music. One of the PTB (powers that be) came out during intermission and reamed us out, saying that Satan had sent the bat. Seriously. I’m pretty sure that the bat was sent to keep us all awake.

    1. I was there during this one too. It was Darren Lawson that said it IIRC. it really pissed me off when he said that too. It was secular classical symphony music. Like Satan really didn’t want us listening to that. Just another example of how they flat out lie to manipulate everything into a spiritual situation/condition.

      1. So sad that such a rich moment of unscripted surprise was turned into a rebuke. How many of life’s God-sent joys do these poor folks miss? Or worse–how many works of God are interpreted as works of the devil?!

    2. I remember being highly amused at the whole situation, including the idea that the bat was a tool of the devil. Oh yeah, and per my maturity level, the girls squealing was pretty amusing as well.

    3. I was there too. While the whole “bat is of Satan” is patently stupid and manipulative, it pissed me off to no end that people couldn’t show a bit of maturity and respect to the performers regardless of personal enjoyment of the music. My best friend was the pianist for the Grieg concerto and all his hard work and musical talent (not to mention a wonderful piece of music and all the other musicians) were being ignored by people just wanting to be kept awake. It was like being in room with a bunch of middle schoolers. But I guess that’s inevitable when BJU insists on treating everyone that way all the time.

      1. Though, I wonder why these places are ok with Classical Music – if you look at the lives of some composers…..

        BTW, I like Grieg too. And that revolutionary Chopin. And the gay Tchaikovsky. And that womanizer Lizt. And the Freemason – friendly Mozart. And…..

    4. Just curious, I have heard people who attended PCC and BJU refer to “Artist Series”, and I wonder, “isn’t that a Concert?” Is the word “Concert” considered worldly? If so, how do the two words ” Artist” and “Series” qualify as being more sanctified?

      After all, there are “Performance ARTISTS” whose works include live sex acts, and then there’s the “World SERIES”, played on Sundays by tobacco chewing, swearing adulterers. And, btw, the very word “World” is married to word “Series” in this instance (subtle, yes?)

      So, what’s wrong with calling a concert by The Romeros (Spanish Classical guitarists) a CONCERT??? It’s supercilious crap like THIS that makes Fundies look ridiculous… at least, to me.

      End of rant… Carry on.

  3. Okee…If animals can be possessed/used by Satan to distract us from our true calling in life, then why don’t Men-O-Gawds preach against pets?

    Every dog, gerbil, cat, ferret, hermit crab, goldfish, parrot, tarantula, and iguana is a potential Satanic weapon.**

    Even owing a pet is an “appearance of evil”. When you love your pet more than the concerned door-to-door evangelist, then you “appear” to be a black-sliding beer guzzling hippie vegan on the way to perdition.

    1. Then I must be operating Satan’s Little Bates’ Motel. With 3 dogs and 3 cats, someone always wants something. Maybe if I’d get up at 7am on Saturday and answer the fundies at the door, they’d confirm or deny this for me. Yep, they were back today. 👿

      1. At my former fundy church if someone called and asked to be put on their “Do not knock” list they would mark the soulwinning maps accordingly. That does not mean some hyper-aggressive “soul-winner” won’t ignore the instructions, but it will probably reduce the frequency of early morning harrassment.

        I can’t help but wonder if they are violating some city ordinance by going door knocking so early in the morning.

  4. This is completely off-topic, but one of the things I wonder if other ex-fundies do when first coming out of the movement is to be extremely careful about the comments and pictures they post on facebook. I know with me there are things I don’t put up because I have several friends on there that are still fundy and want to be spared getting put on a few more prayer lists.

      1. I was just the opposite. I blew the hatch off the bunker. On FB I posted my music, movies, books and opinions of the IFB-KJVO cult very prominently. I was very antagionistic. Most of the rabid fundy “friends” never challenged me they just de-friended me (whoopie) but everything I pointed out they could not defend anyway. I am now perosnna non-grata in the local fundy-world. 😎
        I know they talk about me as if I am a heathen… oh well.

        1. I lost most of my friends I made at BJU by un-fundying myself. It pained me so much to see they would rather be miserable and, should I say, refuse to take the red pill.

        2. They can’t see the truth of what the Fundie movement is because they are so wrapped up in it themselves.
          We tend to see only what we want to see. God has to open their eyes just like He did ours.

        3. And I am not saying that out of a air of arrogance but in humility. But for the grace of God there go I.
          I am not being judgmental of their position in Christ, of their salvation, or their heart and walk with the Lord (The Lord knows I fall so short in these areas) but my beef is with the blind adhearance to the fundy cult, and the legalistic works sanctification…the hero worship and the dictatorial M-O-g who runs the show.

    1. Yep. I am being very, very careful because I don’t want to be put on anyone’s prayer list or have my blog blocked from viewing at the school I just left. I would LOVE to tell them all about the freedom and the grace that I have found in a life without 613 rules, but kind of like Jonas in The Giver, I can’t force anyone else to see color.

      It will be interesting when we get to Halloween, though. I am dressing up this year – either for work or for a charity function, I haven’t figured out which yet – and I want to take pictures. I haven’t dressed up for Halloween since we entered Fundyland when I was 5.

      1. Love the “Giver” reference, BTW!

        I try to be very circumspect on facebook, but gradually it’s getting out that my husband and I are not following the lockstep IFB pattern. I am amused at my fundy friends who carefully report on FB that their music favs are Majesty Music and hymns, but who list their favorite TV shows as CSI or Criminal Minds. I always want to ask, “Don’t you know that those shows play rock music in the background?”

        1. The funniest fundies are the ones who only post scripture for their status. They rarely ever post on their life and if they do it is generally to report how many were saved at the camp meeting they just attended.

          They believe themselves to be hip, cool and in touch but in fact bring the IFB with them to FB. rather comicial actually… but pathetic as well.

          I yam who I yam… no apologies…. already spent too much time in my life being something I’m not. It’s bad enough to wake up one day and realize you are in your late forties and life has passed you by because your life to this point was only revolved in and around the fundy cult.
          Sorry, I know that’s TMI

        2. Yes, Don! It’s even funnier when my husband looks at my page because he’s not an ex-fundy in any way. He gets a little more shocked each day.

        3. And no, Don, that’s not TMI. I feel like I lost a lot of years in the real-world between birth and my leaving at 22. And I’m only 23 now. I can’t imagine what it would’ve been like to come to the light 20 years later.

        4. @pastor’s wife: What’s almost better is people who refuse to listen to secular music or any music that’s too “rocky,” yet never miss an episode of American Idol.

        5. I know what y’all mean about the wasted or lost years. I spent six years in college and six teaching at a Fundy school, only to leave and find out that none of that is worth anything to anyone outside Fundyism.

          As far as the rock music is concerned, I loved hearing people say things like, “Since that song has a bad beat, I will not listen to that song, anything by that artist, anything by that artist that anyone else sings, or any other versions of that particular song.” Then the song gets cleaned up and we sing it in church with just a piano in the background and that same person will weep openly and talk about how touched they are. Yep, they sure are “touched.”

        6. The moment you see somebody’s favorite stuff/pages includes “The Wilds”, “I am an I. F. KJB-believing Baptist”, “Soul Stirring Hymns”… you may have encountered a fundamentalist.

          Some IFBs display their intense love for food, sports, right-wing politics, and classical music (and orchestras), an occasion hellfire or “Are you sure you are saved!!?” post, but mention rock music, alcohol to them… well, don’t say we didn’t warn ya. Lolz.

    2. You can never need too much prayer. Seriously, who cares? Say what you want and let the prayer requests drop like rain. Part of recovery is telling your story. You may not have been abused, physically, emotionally or spiritually. You may have just decided this brand of Christianity doesn’t work for you. You may decide you don’t believe anymore, but, you need to recover.

    3. I got out before FB was a thing, but they found me later. I found my newsfeed filled with passive-aggressive poems about how great it is to be a homemaker and a mom, status updates that were prayers to the tune of ‘please-oh-please let me be the world’s bestest wifey’, and quizzes about motherhood. Once I posted about how funny I found Jon Stewart’s Glen Beck impression. 😀 And I got this note on my wall about how sad it was that liberals blah-blah-blah… I seriously don’t even check FB anymore and now I wonder if I should just stop caring what they think. They probably have my newsfeed on ignore anyway.

    4. I’m careful what I post on FB but not because of the Fundies. We live in California now, and the people in our new church have never heard of the crazy stuff we grew up in. Pants on women? Blank stare. Long hair on men? Same. Music “standards”? Say what? Bible versions? Whatever floats your boat. Try “mixed bathing”. They will laugh outright!
      I don’t want them to stumble onto, say, Phil Kidd’s wall. They’d be so shocked and offended. They say that Californians are radical nut jobs, but that’s just ’cause they haven’t encountered the IFB!

      1. Let me clarify why they might stumble onto Phil Kidd’s wall from my FB: my husband and I were amusing ourselves for a while by drawing attention to his more obvious heresies, and entering into debate with his rabid followers. It was actually really therapeutic for us. 😀 All those years of suffering fools: feels good to actually answer them in kind!
        He finally blocked us last week. Classic IFB: if you can’t answer them, silence them!

  5. All bets are off when I comes to soulwining. I have seen so many laws broken in the name of ministry. The lightest example of this would be all the traffic violations from stuffing twelve collage students in the back of a pickup and both speeding and driving recklessly to the destination of the ‘Christian Service’.

    I have seen people get chewed out for being ‘destracting’ and ‘hindering the Lord’s work’ when they were legitimately doing neither, and plenty of people get yelled at for smocking or drinking, but I’ve never seen any puppies get strangled. Perhaps I didn’t go on enough ministry opportunities. 🙄

    1. Unfortunately, there are only 9 panels total which means that I’ll only get one more ‘strip’ out of it (if I can think of some text to go along with the pictures).

  6. Before I came out of Fundy-land, I taught a soul-winning course by David Wood at the church Bible college. This guy taught that the second man on the team was supposed to do stuff like that (distracting the dog, not kiloling it…), including even answering the phone at the person’s house if it started ringing or take a interrupting child into the next room!!! Yeah, that is a really good way to endear people to yoru message.

    1. If some stranger dared to answer my telephone or TOUCH MY CHILD AND TAKE her AWAY OUT OF MY SIGHT he would be leaving immediately. Or talking to the police in short order. Or possibly I would. Who died and made these people God?

      1. Yeah, I know…kooky. I was saved – only a couple of years in the Lord – and sorta brain washed (Bless Gawd it needs warshin’, AMEN?!) I really thought that people weren’t gettting saved because “soul-winners” werem’t correctly trained to “lead them to the Lord”. I really wanted to see people saved so I did pray and read the Bible a lot and several years later became calvinistic 💡 . Then I got fired. lol!

    2. I can’t imagine the hubris/temerity it takes for someone to teach people that kind of behaviour is ok. I know its easy for new believers, especially younger ones to buy in, I’ll never get the narcicism(?) Or power craze the fundy leaders pawning this bs off get away with.

    3. Come on, John; we weren’t supposed to answer the phone or take their children away without their permission. Fundamentalism has many problems, but I think this is a little exaggerated.

      The attitude of such teaching is identical to that of a retail salesman — if you have them “hooked”, you don’t want any distractions because they may start thinking.

      Away with such nonsense! If they think so little of their soul that they will let a telephone call or a child interrupt them, then they are not ready to be saved.

  7. Hyles, Finney and decisional regeneration. The fundies will deny they believe in decisional regeneration but their actions betray their true beliefs.

    “Would you like to pray the sinner’s prayer now?”
    “Would you like me to lead you in the sinner’s prayer?”
    “I’ll pray and you repeat after me… and really, sincerely mean it.”
    …”A-men… Now, if you died right now, where would you go?” (I dunno, maybe the funeral home?)

    The hit-n-run, ABC-repeat-after-me evangelism makes me think of some wise guy standing on the street going, “Yo, God you listenin’? I’m ready to get saved now. Com-on’ time’s wastin! We’re both busy men, I’m ready, already!”
    “Wha’ you ain’t got time fa’ me? I’m ready to get saved and I really mean it, and you don’t ga’ time fa’ me?”
    “ok. maybe later, or maybe I’ll jus’ save ma’self.”

    Yeah, I have issues with Finney, Hyles and the whole, “You can decide when and where you’re gonna get saved mentality.”

    1. I remember, when I was 10 or 11 years old, reading a Christian young adult book in which the girl got saved at the end by stating that she wanted to give herself to Christ, not by praying. I didn’t understand how she could truly be saved when she hadn’t prayed.

      A couple of years later I read a historical fiction book that took place among the Anabaptists in Switzerland, and not only did the people not pray the sinner’s prayer, but they were baptized by having water poured over their head. I was very upset over that! It almost spoiled the book, but not quite, because it was a love story, and when you’re 13 years old that is more important than anything theological.

  8. I’m late to post this but…

    I come from a fundy church who during the reign of our previous pastor tried to become more fundy like (More KJV, more tithing, more soul winning, rinse, repeat). Some people ate it up and others didn’t. I ended up going to a strict fundy college that went to all the extremes…..no, the girls weren’t allowed to wear pants to bed because of the whole “what if we have a fire!” thing.

    After being miserable for 4 years but still graduating I decided that those were not my people and I didn’t really believe like they do. At first I thought of hiding it on FB, then I thought I would blast it from the rooftops. However I settled on just putting in my info what I believed (or more importantly leaving out those things they wanted to see) and posting a few things from SFL.

    Believe it or not I didn’t really lose anyone i didn’t want to lose. I’ve always been pretty honest with the people I know so I guess none of it came as a big surprise (except to the president who would swear to this day that I’m responsible for shutting down the school).

    Did I mention that I’m now the pastor of the church I grew up in? Ironic.

    1. The fact that all the problems with the school were blamed on the student’s lack of spirituality kinda annoyed me. The more I more I think about it, the harder it is to believe that they survived as long as they did.

      Long live the Coalition of Friends _\m/

  9. My mom and I go soul-winning together on Saturday mornings. Last Saturday, we stopped at a duplex that had several cars in front. It was exciting because there was the potential that they were having a Tupperware party and we could witness to the whole party at one time! We rang the doorbell and waited for a few moments. My mom saw that the door was cracked. We figured that was the Holy Spirit prompting us to go right in. As we pushed the door open, we could see several people sleeping on the couches and several more gathered around the huge bubble machine on the coffee table. Lots of the people seemed to have the giggles. One man asked us if we had any potato chips. My mother as if any of them knew Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. They all started singing a song that sounded like, “Jesus, He knows me”. It isn’t in the Majesty Song Book, so I’m not familiar with it.

    Mother asked them to repeat The Sinner’s Prayer after her, which they did. We also prayed for them to get their hearts right and stop wearing cut-offs and to cut their hair. We were so happy to report this back to Pastor Backman. We turned in our Soul Saver Cards with all their names on them and hope that we see them in Church soon!

    1. Was there a funny oder in the air when you went in? Did either of you eat ony of the brownies they offered you? Did your mother hum a folksy tune on the way back to the church? Were either of you unexpectedly hungry after leaving your cache of souls? Did either of you notice an unusual number of brightly colored butterflys on the drive back to the church?

    2. Genesis “Jesus, He Knows Me”

      Do you see the face on the TV screen
      Coming at you every Sunday
      See the face on the billboard
      That man is me

      On the cover of the magazine
      There’s no question why I’m smiling
      You buy a piece of paradise
      You get a piece of me

      I’ll get you everything you wanted
      I’ll get you everything you need
      Don’t need to believe in hereafter
      Just believe in me

      Cos Jesus he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      I’ve been talking to Jesus all my life
      Oh yes he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      And he’s been telling me
      Everything is alright

      I believe in the family
      With my ever loving wife beside me
      But she don’t know about my girlfriend
      Or the man I met last night

      Do you believe in God
      Cos that is what I’m selling
      And if you wanna go to heaven
      I’ll see you right

      You won’t even have to leave your house
      Or get out of your chair
      You don’t even have to touch that dial
      Cos I’m everywhere

      And Jesus he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      I’ve been talking to Jesus all my life
      Oh yes he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      And he’s been telling me
      Everything is alright

      You won’t find me practising what I’m preaching
      Won’t find me making no sacrifice
      But I get you a pocketful of miracles
      If you promise to be good, try to be nice
      God will take good care of you
      Just do as I say, don’t do as I do

      I’m counting my blessings
      I’ve found true happiness
      Cos I’m getting richer, day by day
      You can find me in the phone book
      Just call my toll free number
      You can do it anyway you want
      Just do it right away

      There’ll be no doubt in your mind
      You’ll believe everything I’m saying
      If wanna get closer to him
      Get on your knees and start praying

      Cos Jesus he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      I’ve been talking to Jesus all my life
      Oh yes he knows me
      And he knows I’m right
      And he’s been telling me
      Everything is alright

  10. See that is exactly what I was thinking when I read the original story about the dog. What if it had been a baby? And even if it weren’t what if he had actually killed the dog. I know I’d loose my sanctification right there on the spot. First action after getting saved…strangling the idiot pastor.

  11. This was posted on Facebook this morning from a missionary wife. They are in the States trying, for the third time, to raise support to come back to the UK…where WE are!! After they left we went to the base chapel where I am enjoying grace.

    “Bro. Billy preached a great message this morning: Why We Ought To Live for Jesus 1.Because
    of the life we received from the Lord when we got saved. 2.the love he has revealed unto, dying on the Cross. 3.the Labour will be reviewed one
    day. Wood, hay,stubble or Gold, silver, precious gems. How many souls will be saved or… burned in the unquenchable fire, because of my life? Hey, Let’s go soul winning!!” (sic)

    Note the alliteration… and the spelling of “labour”, though to be fair, she has spent 30 years in England where this is the accepted spelling. And, is it me, or does the third point seem a bit forced in there? Why I should live for Jesus, according to #3, is that He’ll get on my case in Heaven for sending souls to hell by my life. Am I really that powerful, and is He really that weak? Oh, my! Nice people, but I just can’t face this stuff anymore! My husband wants to go back to the missionary church when, and if, they return. He doesn’t have the history with fundyism that I have and doesn’t quite understand me, though he does know my story. Is it wrong to pray for God to close a door??? Help! Really. Help.

    1. Morning Kate,
      I’ll get to that essay as soon as I can. 😉
      To answer your question, no, I do not believe it is wrong to pray for God to close that door.
      You have a wonderful understanding of Grace. Maybe you can point out to your husband that what is being said in that quote is another gospel. It is a man-centered gospel. Pray not only for a door to be shut but for eyes to be opened.

      1. Thanks, Don. I do appreciate so much of what you have said on SFL! In fact, I copied a rather long bit awhile back and saved it in a file I’ve started on the topic of grace. You and many others here have been such a huge help to me in understanding grace over against this fundy man-centered legalism! Thanks to all.

  12. Every time we had speaker/mic issues, the pastor would blame it on the devil. He believed that Satan was literally inside the speaker wire disrupting the signal.

    It couldn’t have been that the speakers were 20 years old and installed by God only knows who.

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