E-mail

It’s time again for….Emails From Fundies! I almost hesitate to post this one since it’s so blatantly attention-seeking but I haven’t posted anything else today so here goes…

Hello,

I am one of those ignorant Christians who you dedicated this website to. Thank you very much for mocking my Saviour Jesus Christ, my Bible, my beliefs, my denomination, my pastor, my church, my family, and for falsely accusing us, condemning us, and calling us all sorts of names on your blogs. I count it an honor that you have featured a website and ministry which I am personally involved in: kjvteens4christ.

Your website is very effective. An entire website dedicated to criticizing believers in Christ will be very lucrative for you in this world.

You have permission to use this email with whatever angst you have against believers such as myself. In fact, dedicate one of your t-shirts to me.

Sincerely,
Kirk Suchowesky

John 15:18-20

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

(AND, of course, you all know what version I quoted!)

For the record, this site is not lucrative at all. People like you are the reason I keep going anyway, Kirk.

135 thoughts on “E-mail”

  1. If his logic were accurate, then every time a Fundy preacher preaches against those “apostates” who don’t attend church for every service then I must take it as a personal attack against me. How dare he mock me from the pulpit!

  2. I don’t hate you, I feel rather sorry for you. You’ve traded a beautiful world full of wonders and experiences for a life held captive in a church basement feasting on grape juice and stale crackers. You’ll never know what it is to dance at a non-fundy friend’s wedding, share a bottle of wine and life lessons with friends around a campfire or be able to truly understand an share another’s joy, pain or grief. I’ve lived in that quiet, safe, sinless, gray world and thought I was a better person for doing so. Truth was, I wasn’t really a person at all, just a robot who could quote scripture and bring fruit salad to church potlucks. Leaving the fundy life was the true beginning of mine. I still believe in God, I’m still a christian but I now know that people are more important than rules (most of which are extra-biblical IME) and faith trumps dogma any day. Give the real world a try, I promise it’s not nearly as evil and scary as you were taught.

      1. Drunkenness is a sin. Drinking is not. Try reading your Bible again without your tradition-colored glasses. To be clear, some people who can’t handle it should never drink, but that doesn’t make it wrong for everyone.

        1. when did he say that he stopped because he read that the Bible prohibited drinking? maybe he believes it, maybe he doesn’t. shouldn’t you ask him first, before lecturing?

      2. That’s true–wine is a gift, and sobriety is a gift; God intended for us to use each appropriately. I feel the Holy Spirit does not wish for me to partake of alcohol (although I’m not 21 yet anyway) but that’s because, given my personality and genetic background, I suspect I’d be prone to alcoholism. Believers who use it responsibly and legally are not in the wrong.

      3. My point isn’t drinking/non-drinking, it’s that fundies tend to restrict themselves unnessessarily. They are so afraid of sin (and the pastor’s reaction to the possibility of sin) that they seldom take chances or try anything that isn’t fundy church approved (and that list grows shorter by the day, IME).

      4. How could you see anything brightly drinking moon shine? Jesus drank wine, one just didn’t trust the water. Purchase a nice bottle of a California merlot, pour yourself a glass and enjoy life the way your lord did.

      5. The problem with IFB (and some non-IFB churches) is not that they abstain from alcoholic beverages, but rather they DEMAND complete abstinence from it.

        “… we resolve to abstain from the sale and usage of intoxicating drinks as a beverage…” is a popular in many Baptist church covenants, even some non-IFBs.

        Sure it was valid during Prohibition, but I believe no church has the right to bind the conscience of believers beyond what the Bible say. Yes, drunkenness is a sin, it is dangerous, but to enforce total abstinence on all members is extra-biblical and violates the principle of Christian liberty.

  3. Stuff Fundies Like: Assuming that fundamentalism = Christianity and criticism = persecution.

    Stuff Fundies Don’t Like: Reading church history to find out what Christianity and persecution truly mean.

    1. They act not unlike the way the Catholic Church did during it’s reign of holy terror. They will never learn from history nor will they recognize the backlash that emanates from religious totaltarianism.

      1. And we Catholics have mellowed (we’re not issue-free…but we’ve mellowed!)

        “No meat on Fridays!”

        “No meat on Fridays during Lent!”

        “We recommend that you not eat meat on Fridays during Lent. Unless you forget. That’s okay too.”

  4. And now appearing: the Fundy Persecution Complex Poster Child–Kirk. People of his ilk just don’t realize what real persecution is. Maybe he should consult some Christians in Iran, China, or any of the countries where our brothers and sisters are still in danger of death just for calling themselves “Christians.” Alas, poor Fundies–the persecuted minority πŸ™„

    1. Hear, hear. I’ve always despised their martyr attitude. Also, Jesus never said that being “persecuted” is a sign of being right, yet fundies always think they must be on the right track if someone opposes them.

        1. We’re complicated. Since my husband is a Navy Chaplain, we’re members of an SBC church because he’s NAMB endorsed. We’re also members of a non-denom local church near our current home.

  5. Hmmmm. The email writer says this blog has falsely accused HIM, but I believe he is the one making false accusations when he claims that this blog has mocked Jesus Christ. I do not recall any entry that mocks Jesus Christ. Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and I wish to worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH. Because of my desire for truth, I appreciate this blog for pointing out ways that many IFB churches have added the teachings of man to the statements of Scripture.

        1. I get what you’re saying, but the pope is not the voice of God for Catholics. The infallibility doctrine is very complicated and Catholics are free to question and challenge the Pope on matters on theology (and do so quite frequently).

          I read this blog as a convert to Catholicism and there is a (are many) huge difference(s) between Catholicism and fundyland.

        2. A good Catholic friend of my family, with a knack for using words in a unique way, once claimed that not all Catholics believed that the Pope was inflammable! In the course of the same conversation she claimed that Catholics did not believe in divorce, but a marriage could be annihalated but only if hit hadn’t been consumed.. (maybe she meant if it hadn’t been constipated, but she still made more sense than most fundy-type preachers I have heard)

  6. I would like Kirk to explain how Darrell or anyone else on this blog has ever mocked Jesus Christ. πŸ™„

    What pains me is the knowledge that I could totally see my dad writing an email like this.

      1. Mine too, and he was not strictly fundy , but typical of the Ulster Protestantism of his era in Northern Ireland. As we say in Ireland:”Same difference”

    1. But don’t you see: mocking a fundy preacher is the same as mocking Jesus!!

      But no, if you’re going to be narrow minded and illogical, you’re going to get made fun of for being narrow minded and illogical.

  7. This is amazing. I’m leading a study of Revelation at my church, and already we’ve talked about the mistaken view that the letters to the 7 churches represent different church “ages”, and we’ve picked on the KJV only crowd. I may need to print out the page about “why KJV?” for them. I honestly didn’t think that any of the KJV only folks even had computers. I thought they were too busy eating mayonnaise sandwiches and listening to old John Cougar Mellencamp records to figure out the internet.

    What is hilarious is that they will assault the apocrypha as “catholic” garbage while neglecting the fact that all those who translated the KJV were just one degree removed from the catholic church. Do these people really want Episcopalians translating their Bibles? They also have no sense of why King James – who was gay, which should drive the fundies nuts (but like Glenn Beck’s mormonism, they overlook it) – had this translation produced. Every translation is an interpretation. There’s no getting around it.

    1. And it’s pretty certain that King James and all the translators practised infant baptism as well. King James’ mother was certainly a Catholic and his grandson James II got kicked off the British throne for marrying a Catholic who produced a Catholic heir. Catholics are still banned from the UK throne because of the Stuarts.

      1. Wait a minute … King James was gay and he had a grandson? He must not have been gay all the time. (I’m told, although I was not around to know from observation or experience, that the idea of homosexuality as a lifestyle and form of self-identification didn’t exist before the 19th century. Before that, apparently, it was just another type of sex.)

        1. From what I’ve read, King James I wasn’t gay, but it was customary for guys to sleep in the same bed: something along those lines.

          But yeah, he wasn’t exactly the greatest Christian in the world. Fundies counter by saying he just authorized it, therefore it’s ok.

        2. He didn’t authorize it. It wasn’t known as the Authorized Version until much later. It was simply printed as “The Holy Bible”. King James never gave it the name “Authorized Version”.

          (well, he authorized it in the sense that he made it possible, but he didn’t stamp some big magical “AV1611” thing on it).

        3. It has been around as a recognizable lifestyle for a long, long time. But due to social and legal pressures (it’s not that long ago that you could be imprisoned for getting caught)living openly was only available to a few people and was a risky undertaking. Historically, the majority of gay people probably got married, because that’s what you did to become an adult and have your own household (and if you were female, you would likely have had very little choice in the matter).

          As king, James had to marry and produce an heir, no ifs, ands or buts. Elizabeth I got away without marrying because she was able to exploit her subjects’ fears that, as a woman, she would have to obey her husband, who would almost certainly be a foreign prince, and might not have England’s best interests at heart. James didn’t have any such excuse. A king has to have a queen, so a suitable princess was located and the marriage arranged as soon as possible. No-one would have been bothered if he had to grit his teeth and think about someone else to get the job done, as long as he fathered sons.

  8. There are some people in the world who mock Jesus Christ, but I don’t think any of them read this blog or comment on it.

    Saying “anyone who mocks me mocks my Saviour Jesus Christ” seems a bit pretentious to me.
    I do lots of dumb stuff, but I don’t blame Jesus for it.

    1. I would actually have to disagree with that, Garry.

      Atheist blogs of the militant variety do sometimes link to my pieces — either because the writer himself used to be IFB or because they’re misconstruing what I say to be an indictment of all Christianity.

      That is to say that there are people who read this blog who would have no problem mocking Christ. On the other hand there are now probably quite a few people who have read the kjvteens site who are in the same boat. πŸ™‚

      1. I’m totally apostate, and read your blog along with others, including some atheist blogs, daily. That said, what I believe personally does NOT equal mocking your beliefs in Jesus, or mocking my neighbor’s orthodox Judaism, or anyone elses’ beliefs. People’s actions, however, might be found to be fair game.

        1. That’s a great point, Stony. There’s a good bit of distance between mocking something and not believing in it. I hope we stay on the respectful side of that.

        2. I check the site regularly, and I’d consider myself New Atheist… I was raised IFB, and really took it seriously till my mid 20’s, but thanks to SFL and LOTS of studying and reading and came to the conclusion that Christianity is no different than Judaism, Islam, or Hinduism….

          I still go to church with my wife, and I deal with people from several religions regularly, and I always treat them respectfully… BUT It is virtually impossible to discus my non-beliefs of God’s existence without offending them…

          anyway, I just wanted to second the fact that there are atheists who read SFL…

  9. He probably didn’t even read the entry. He probably just heard that his precious website was featured on an “anti-Christian” blog and, like all fundies, went off the deep end without doing any serious investigation himself.

    And since Kirk brought it up, I’d say most fundy pastors are guilty of misapplication of the last part of John 15:20–“if they have kept my word,they will keep yours also”.

    1. @rose – i’d be careful not to make a similar assumption mistake that you are claiming that Kirk made. He may very well have read it. Unless you know for sure you should be more careful. I will agree that that senario more often then not is the case. And as for the application I tend to agree.

  10. Just another dribbling, sniveling, pretentious prick looking for vindication and an outlet for his anger. You know what they should start, a fundy fight club. “Rule #1. if it’s your 1st time at fight club you have to fight,” …. yada, yada, yada. I thought that the stuff on that website was ridiculous, but I remember having to deal with all my younger years.

  11. He got more exposure towards his website and ministry then he would of ever gotten on his own outside of burning the Koran.For this he is ungrateful? Shame on him πŸ™‚

  12. I wonder if Kirk has ever read – or even heard of – Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. Admittedly, I hardly have the guts to read it myself, but at least I’m vaguely aware of the contents, of what persecution is really about. Maybe Kirk should read a few pages, so he’d lose the martyrdom complex and quit complaining whenever anyone disagrees with him.

      1. Ah yes, you are correct. I hated Foxe’s Book of Martyrs because it was always held up as a Standard. “You didn’t pray today? What would the guys in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs think about you? They were TORTURED TO DEATH for praying!!!!” Etc.

        1. Thanks for the information; I learn something new every day. Maybe since I wasn’t guilted using it, I never looked into it further.

  13. Dear Kirk,

    I never mocked you or Jesus Christ.

    My only question to you would be: Are you familiar with Greek? If so, why aren’t you basing your ministry off of the Greek NT instead of the “counterfeit” KJV ? If you are not familiar with Greek then I suggest you would study that language for a couple of years.

    PS. I don’t think the KJV is counterfeit…I said that in context of the supposed counterfeit NKJV. If the NKJV is counterfeit compared to the KJV then the KJV is counterfeit compared to the Greek NT since you can’t get more accurate than that.

    PPS. My Greek teacher at BJU thinks the NASB is more accurate to the greek than KJV. shocker right?

    1. Sorry, I know that I am going off topic there. I hope you all can forgive me.

      As far as the email is concerned. If I were in Kirk shoes I wouldn’t even write that email since I knew it would not accomplish anything. But I guess it makes Kirk feel better having the last word.

    2. Come to think of it…maybe he accuses SFL of mocking God because, like Steve Anderson, he believes the KJV is God – ergo mocking KJVOnlyism equates to mocking God. πŸ™„

  14. I’m sure there are many sincere people in fundymentalism that love Jesus and desire the pure milk of the Word. But then they find themselves in a church where they are judged by the clothes they wear, the length of their hair, the company they keep, and the jobs they have. They are told that the modern version of the Bible they understand is a perversion of the King James Bible that they don’t understand. They find themselves on a treadmill of “do this, do that. Be in church whenever the doors are open” They must wonder “is this really Christianity? Where’s the grace?”

    Maybe by that time they don’t know any better, so they continue in fundyland, hoping that what they do will please pastor and Jesus. If they try to explore Christianity beyond the narrow confines of fundyland, they are told they are backsliding, apostate, or in sin. If they get sick, they are told because God is punishing them. If they are poor, then they should be glad because Jesus was poor and he is coming soon, Amen?

    If fundies are mocked here, it is because so many of the people reading this site have been hurt by fundamentalism and this is a way to deal with that hurt. They feel that the fundy brand of Christianity is false and deceptive. Not the believing in Jesus part. But all the man-made traditions and rules of fundamentalism that are handed down just like the Pharisees handed down their traditions of men that Jesus criticized.

    Fundies are so quick to blame and criticize others without seeing the plank in their own eyes. Hopefully by prayerfully examining ourselves we can find our own planks, become more loving, and follow Jesus the way that he wants us to and told us to.

    Luk 10:25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
    Luk 10:26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?”
    Luk 10:27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”
    Luk 10:28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

    1. “They find themselves on a treadmill of Ò€œdo this, do that. Be in church whenever the doors are openÒ€ They must wonder Ò€œis this really Christianity? WhereÒ€ℒs the grace?Ò€
      I remember singing the song “We’ll Work Till Jesus Comes”. I doubt the fundies ever realized the irony of that song. They’ll say it is faith and not works. But then preach that you are not doing (working) enough for the cause.

      1. We use the Soul Stirring Songs & Hymns from SotL: so many fundy songs aren’t quite Biblical πŸ˜€ Which makes it fun…..

        But that’s another sore spot. These “old songs” were once new, so what’s wrong with singing the newer songs in church? I would love to hear our choir sing “How Deep the Father’s Love for Us: for example.

        1. I like Majestic Hymns. 812 – victory in Jesus. 56 – Guide me o thou great Jehovah. 52 – Amazing Grace

          We now use Mission Praise at my Brethren Assembly. I know about 10 songs in it, and they are all songs I was never allowed to sing as an IFB (In Christ Alone, Shout to the Lord). The rest of the songs are an eclectic mix of brethren traditions, songs about bread and wine, and some really old beautiful hymns.

          However, they always sing the ones about bread and wine.

    2. If only the Fundies would follow what is said in Luke 10:25-28! They do everything BUT that. They hate with tremendous spite and cruelty and they do it joyfully for Jesus. Jesus said Love!…they hate; Jesus said Do not judge!…..they judge, anyways; Jesus said Forgive!….well, we already know that answer. To think that soon Jesus will return to rapture them up to heaven as a reward for all their efforts, while promising those who did not believe fire and eternal damnation. Ummm…..does that make any sense?

  15. Only a fundy could be so deluded & have a highly inflated view of self importance as to think a pretty popular but very niche blog like this would be lucrative. That’s the most amusing part of of the e-mail to me.

  16. He didn’t say what he wants on his tee shirt.

    I normally charge extra for custom orders, but in his case, I might make an exception. As long as it wasn’t blasphemous. (Some of us ex-fundies are still Christians, y’know. )

    The tee-shirt guy,

    Mitch

  17. Darrell,
    You have been maligned! His application of the closing passage implies you not only hate him, but you also are not a brother in Christ.
    As I am not a veteran of this site, could someone tell me if the overall temper is one of fundies being misguided believers or just straight apostate? It seems that he has committed more grievous error, yes?
    And FWIW, in response to your tweet on anonymity, I try to remain anonymous for the benefit of my small ministry. I am not at all fearful of repercussions from my past fundy life! πŸ˜€

    Michael

  18. <<<>>>

    HAHAHAHA!! My “cult mentor” from PSU told me at the beginning of my journey that the only way to get people from inside a cult to start listening to you, was to speak their language. She said that when they went into the polygamous compound down in Utah they had to train people to speak slowly and softly. They couldn’t swear or even watch TV at first, with the children present. She said it would have been too much for the kids and they wouldn’t talk to them if they did that—as it would have closed them off in fear. She told me that each cult in America has their own “language.”

    She asked me what the IFB “language” was and I told her they called themselves the “militant fundamentalists” and that they ran a site called, “The Fighting Fundamental Forums.” I told her that most the pastors yell at their church members on a regular basis.

    She then said, “Well, you better out there then and start yelling louder than their pastors do…or they wont listen. Cult members are trained to hear *only* the language of the cult leaders.”

    Fascinating, isn’t it?!?!?!?!

    And, LOLOLOLOL! You either laugh or cry I guess.

  19. well Darrel, keep it up. The more young people like me who you can keep from the fringe, the better. Not that you motivated me, but i agree. I did come very close to permanent Fundy commitance but by God’s grace I didn’t, and may soon have a chance to get to a different church!! πŸ™‚
    Closet Lutheran
    Not really Joe
    Not really from Kansas City, KS
    Really 17.
    Trying to avoid trouble by an alias…

  20. Question: In the Christian life, is there anything where do are supposed to work? I understand that salvation does not require works, and our sanctification doesn’t either. However, I still hear it on a weekly basis about ‘work’ in the Christian life.

    1. “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” in Philipians 2:12 and “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves” in James 1:22 come to mind

      I do NOT believe that work will get you to heaven. But I believe that by the grace of God we are saved and by the grace of God we show fruit in our lives produced by the Holy Spirit. And our love for God motivates us to obey Him and His commandments. Obedience to God is “work”. Paul mentions several times how he disciplines himself which takes work. All this by the grace of God.

      So do I as a Christian “work” to please God? Nope. Do I as a Christian “work” to get saved? Nope. I “work” because of my love for God and wanting to be like His Son. Of course that’s not always my motivator but I am only human.

    2. A slight aside from a Catholic POV.

      Our salvation is not dependent on who we are, but Who Christ is.

      Just about every Christian denomination believes that we *must* do something for salvation: say a sinner’s prayer, intellectually acquiesce to the concept of Christ as God, be obedient to or submissive towards God.

      We Christians tend to get lost in exactly *what* we have to do, and of course if other’s disagree, “they” are wrong and “we” are right.

      Being Catholic, I hear this from Protestants all the time: “Don’t you believe that your works get you into Heaven?”

      I try to answer with a question of my own: “Do you believe that in order to be saved, you must love God?” The scripture is very clear that if you love God, there are *things* you will do, and actions you will take.

      We can argue about the chicken and the egg all we want in regards to faith, justification, and sanctification. Does God want us to bicker, or to figure out how to feed that hungry child, take care of that widow, or help that homeless family?

      1. ” Does God want us to bicker, or to figure out how to feed that hungry child, take care of that widow, or help that homeless family?”

        The fundies certainly feed the hungry child, help the widow and help a homeless family………provided they get saved and join their church first. If they don’t do that, then they are just heathen hell-bound sinners. πŸ˜‰

        1. Fundies and Evangelicals certainly do feed the hungry, etc. And they don’t necessarily expect anything from it.

          The circumstances where they share “ministries of graces” with protestants, and even Catholics, are few and far between, though they do exist as well. (here in GA, some IFB’s, SBC’s, RCC’s, Lutherans and Presbyterians co-manage homeless shelters and another homeless family project).

          I just find that the bickering over relatively small differences in theology and soteriology somehow develop into a doctrine of separation that makes more coordination impossible…and that direct witnessing programs are seemingly more important than taking care of the more immediate needs of people.

  21. Oh, fundies.

    The sad things is many have good hearts and good intentions. They honestly believe that what they preach and how they live is from the Bible. And it all sounds legit. Until you take a step back, put things in perspective, and decide whether what they teach is truly Bible or merely tradition.The majority is tradition.

    We’re having a conference next week, with several key speakers, including Dr. Smith, the Sword of the Lord editor. One morning’s sermons are on the defense of the King James Bible: the pastor said Dr. Al Lacy will answer every question there is about it.

    I wish I didn’t have to work that morning: I’m interested in hearing what he has to say. They are very unapologetic in saying the KJV is the only word of God, inerrant, without error, can’t get saved without it etc. I say it’s a translation. A good one? Perhaps. The only good one? No. I’ll ask my brother….

    1. Al Lacy – the cowboy guy? If it’s the same guy I am thinking of, he believes (or used to, like Hyles used to), that you can only be saved by reading a King James Bible…

      1. All I know about Al Lacy is that he writes some of the worst fiction that has ever been printed.

        His main series features a girl (her name eludes me) and a man called John Stranger. I can’t remember all of the details but the girl gets herself into impossible scrapes, as women are wont to do, and Stranger swoops in from out of nowhere and rescues her. She doesn’t know where he is until she gets into trouble and then he appears from close by. It makes him seem like a very creepy stalker.

        1. Like Clint Eastwood in “Pale Rider”. I never really understood that movie. Also, why did “Preacher” sleep with the other man’s live in wife (it’s not shown, but implied). And that girl wanting “Preacher” to sleep with her (he declines). Far out that movie has an odd vibe. It was an ego trip for Clint Eastwood and just a trip for me. Last gunfight is cool though. And it gives the impression he is a vengeful ghost or something stupid.

        2. @ExIFB: Pale Rider is like a ripoff of High Plains Drifter which was much more of a developed story. They share common elements. Pale Rider just left a bunch of questions unanswered( Preachers connecton to Stockburn, Megan’s father/Sara’s husband.) but hey you do get quotes like “That’s just the way it is.” and” It really does’nt matter now does it?”
          Anything really can come up in these comments sections.

      2. I don’t think Shelton Smith or most fundies believe you can’t be saved without the KJB. It’s a very small crowd that do. Not even Ruckman (who most consider to be the extreme extreme KJB position) believes that. Hyles did for a time (you can find his reasoning in “enemies of soulwinning” book).

      3. I’m actually not sure, I do know we’re printing some of his books though.

        I don’t think I’ve ever heard the pastor specifically say from the pulpit that you can only be saved from the KJV, but one of my teachers at the school there said it. I so wanted to stand up in class and comment on the thousands of people who used the Tyndale Bible, Great Bible, Geneva Bible, etc, and the poor souls who have to use a non-English translation!

        IMO it limits God: the heavens display his handiwork, but we can only be saved from, of all things, man’s translation. Give me a break.

      1. Yes, yes we are.
        I miss him. And it sounds like he is making progress, thank the Lord. Keep praying for him and his wife and children as they go through the rollercoaster as she has been calling it. I know it’s rough.

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