51 thoughts on “FWOTW: fundamentalistbaptistchurch.org”

  1. When I grew up it seemed they preached heavily on not being a “stumbling block” as the sort of catch all. You know if we say you shouldn’t be a stumbling block than we can preach against anything guilting you to not be a “stumbling block” to some unknown person who might see you in shorts on Saturday mowing your fenced in back yard. But the new catch all is “Friendship with the world.” It works great as a catch all because it is a little harder to go against. After all there are clear verses not to be like the “world.” The problem is that the “World” is not clearly defined either in the Bible or by the Fundy preacher. It becomes this catch all to anything they don’t like or think is a grey area so they can make it “crystal clear.” I was listening to a sermon not to long ago about music and in order to make his point, that CCM was evil music, he used friendship with the world as his one text that proves his point beyond a shadow of a doubt. But it is not at all clear exactly where that line exists or what is actually meant by “Friendship with the world.” And that is my biggest problem with it. There is no catch all and using as such causes A LOT of inconsistencies that just cannot be reconciled without either avoidance or major backpedaling (typically avoidance is used). It is interesting to see this rise as the new catch all to “things we don’t like.” Maybe it has always been and I just haven’t noticed till now.

  2. I could ask how KJVO teaching is compatible with scripture. I could ask how their teachings on separation are compatible with the life and practices of our Savior. But no, I won’t ask those things. What I will ask, is how little “top 1000” GIFs along the bottom of one’s site are compatible with a “Web 2.0” design paradigm.

  3. @Josh – I agree wholeheartedly. That was my first thought – “ooh…pretty design, ni–wait, what’s with the jagged GIF files at the bottom?”

  4. Wow! Under his “What We Believe” he actually calls Charles Finney a heretic. I’m actually quite surprised since Finney is usually a hero in IFB circles (though often with a disclaimer). But I wonder if he calls people down to the “old fashioned altar”, the modern gimmick which is clearly traceable to Finney.

  5. “The authority of Jesus and the Bible comes before tradition; before human reason; before personal experience; before emotions; before the opinions of fallen men; and before the lies of Satan, (such as his lies of evolution and psychology.)”

    I love this little gem nestled in their statement of faith. It’s like, “blah blah Jesus blah blah KJV blah blah Biblical separation…oh yeah, did we mention we’re a cult?”

  6. And I love how psychology is a worldly tool of Satan. F&!$ Zoloft! You just need to start a bus route to cure that depression.

  7. @Jordan

    Since there doesn’t appear to be a post on psychology in the archives (unless I just can’t search my way out of a paper bag), I think it’s time for Darrell to write one. Bonus points for a reference to fundy hatred of James Dobson.

  8. I did post a video on Blaming Mental Illness on Sin

    I’ve done some more serious looking at the subject outside of this site. You can read some of that over here if you’ve got loads of spare time and a high tolerance for tedium.

    Hatred of psychology in general is pretty wide spread into SBC, and Reformed circles as as well as fundy circles. Nouthetic Counseling is considered the fundagelical alternative.

  9. Wow.

    “We believe that Jesus and the Bible must always come first. Therefore, when a system of theology comes along which places reason; tradition; advanced revelation; emotion; experiences; feelings; or anything else before the Bible, we must reject it. Jesus and the Bible must always come first! We therefore reject the systematic theology of Calvinism.”

    “I really don’t believe that Election is consistent with the character of God.”
    “Baptists have been around since the time of Christ! No, really!”
    “If you don’t smile when you sing, you don’t love Jesus.”
    “If you can’t remember a time when you asked Jesus into your heart, you need to come down here and do business with God.”


    Totally random:
    Darrell, you should do a post on the word “disciple.”
    Stuff Fundies Like: Using the word “disciple” as a verb.

  10. This guy states he has three degrees. Are we supposed to be impressed? Sounds pretty puffed up and worldly. What about all the guys (and gals too!) that have no degrees and are serving the Lord quietly without making a mention of it to anyone. I remember Jesus rebuking a certain group of folks about making a show of things to be seen of men. I guess that doesn’t apply here…

    1. Three degrees…. Of separation from the Real World
      (He really should visit Planet Earth some time)

  11. “Since there doesn’t appear to be a post on psychology in the archives (unless I just can’t search my way out of a paper bag), I think it’s time for Darrell to write one. Bonus points for a reference to fundy hatred of James Dobson.”

    It’s funny, because growing up, James Dobson seemed to be revered in our IFB circles. At what point did it switch to hatred? What was it that he did to flip the switch like that? I remember on car rides to school every morning listening to “Focus on the Family”. Also, listening to their kid’s shows on the radio on Saturday nights. Like “Adventures in Oddessey” and the like.

  12. I do not believe I have ever read a “what we believe” section with the word whore used 6 times!!!

  13. The Pentecostal brand of fundamentalism is also dismissive of psychology or counseling (unless it’s a pastor doing the counseling).

    Of course, they also seem tend to dismiss “traditional” medicine, and rely on chiropractors, homeopathy, and herbal cures more than most other people I know (because doctors are only in it for the money, they say; somehow, I wasn’t aware that chiropractors and herbal supplement manufacturers were giving away everything for free). And yet, even though all of the stuff they take is “natural,” they complain of being in pain or sick more than anyone I know who doesn’t take it.

    A bit off topic, I know. I only bring it up because it all tied in to the fundy skepticism of psychologists.

  14. Funny how they reject the “traditions of men” yet their traditions are straight out of the 19th century.

  15. I also find it funny that IFB’s and Scientologists actually agree on something! Both dislike psychology…who would have ever though?

    Also, this particular church has the most boring, uninspired name ever! Especially for something located in Southern California, where there are a ton of IFB churches. I grew up there, I can list a few off the top of my head. Although I do think there are enough “Calvary” and “First Baptist” churches there that you couldn’t swing a cat without hitting one…so, at least they didn’t pick either of those names… Still, couldn’t they come up with something more interesting?

  16. my fave baptist churches are “second baptist church”, cause you just know that if you asked them about the origin of their church, they’d tell you that they split from first baptist because they were a bunch of liberal compromising nkjv-users or because their women wore britches.

  17. Seriously, those videos? Are they for real? I just watched the beginning of the “Friendship with the World” one, and I couldn’t decide whether to laugh hysterically or stab my eye with a fork. He speaks in such a creepy I’m-making-an-educational-video-for-preschoolers voice.

    “We all need friends. It’s a lonely world out there when we don’t have any friends. Do you have friends?”

    I’m just waiting for the Teletubbies to pop out from behind him.

  18. @Ben, that depends on where you are. I was a member of one IFB church where Dobson was revered and frequently quoted from the pulpit. At another IFB church I attended after leaving that one (same denomination, excuse me, “fellowship”), but in a different town, Dobson was anathema. So, it depends on the church.

  19. Why are they always blue? Really. I’ve wanted to know this for forever. Why are all these fundy church sites blue? Is there something coded in the color? Is this blue (and black and white and red only as an accent) “web safe for fundies” or something?


  20. If you’re color savvy (and who knows with them) people wear blue to create a culture of trust. Red is power. Black is authority. Green is bad if you’re an accountant because it makes you look untrustworthy.

    If you’re going to an interview, or want to to convince your shareholders that you have not had your hand in the cookie jar, always wear blue. Teachers tend to lean heavily on black and red – first day of school? Both if possible.

  21. Maybe that’s it. Either they know that intuitively or they know that research or something.

    It’s uncanny.

    I want them all to be a nice Golden Retriever color. 😉

  22. “@Ben, that depends on where you are. I was a member of one IFB church where Dobson was revered and frequently quoted from the pulpit. At another IFB church I attended after leaving that one (same denomination, excuse me, “fellowship”), but in a different town, Dobson was anathema. So, it depends on the church.”

    Hmm…that’s interesting. Did you ever figure out why? The churches I went to stayed on the “revere” side, so I don’t know exactly why some churches hate him. There has to be a reason…

  23. It’s right about the halfway mark in the “Lowest Common Denominator” when I realized if I closed my eyes it felt like I was listening to the Sicilian in The Princess Bride

  24. @Ben There are reports that Dobson does not hold to the literal 6 day creation. That issue alone would separate him from any hardcore fundy. Plus he is not KJV. Any true fundy knows that if there is one issue wherein you disagree with a “brother”, than that “brother” is no longer your “brother” and is now a heretic. I believe the Scriptural backing for calling your former “brother” a heretic is found in the Gospel of John the Baptist 6:66.

  25. They don’t like Dobson because he believes in ecumenism.

    If you work with other churches that are not Fundamentalist, you are violating one of the key tenants of Fundamentalism: Separation.

  26. @Morgan

    Then again, if you work with other churches AT ALL, Fundamental or not, you’re probably violating one tenant or another. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a preacher’s/pastors conference (which is a whole other SFL post-worthy subject of its own) where there were attendees from the same town.

  27. @Stephen: I promise you there are multiple attendees from Mecca– I mean Greenville, SC, at the FBFI Conference.

  28. Thanks, guys! I remember a couple of those Dobson details now that you mention them. And, they would be reason to believe that my old church has probably abandoned him as well.

  29. “Hmm…that’s interesting. Did you ever figure out why? The churches I went to stayed on the “revere” side, so I don’t know exactly why some churches hate him. There has to be a reason…”

    In the case of the IFB church I went to that hated Dobson, it was because he’s a psychologist and that particular church is hard-core into the nouthetic movement. Anything remotely integrationist is suspect there, Dobson included.

  30. Regarding the Dobson thing, most fundies I know aren’t a fan for the aforementioned reasons (ecumenism etc.). However, many conservative Evangelicals and former fundies revere him in an unhealthy way: they sometimes treat his opinions as if they’re inspired. What really turns me off is his association with the culture war/religious right. I really wish he would keep his focus on the family, not national politics. Frankly, although I had some respect for him before, that greatly diminished after his comments/behaviour during the last presidential election. . .

  31. What gets me is that there is no Sunday morning service! I don’t think I have ever heard of a true Fundi, KJVO church with no morning service!!

    They must be sliding down the slippery slope….

  32. Emotion:
    “If you don’t smile when you sing, you don’t love Jesus.”

    I was singled out once in a song service where they were singing hallelujah something something, because I did not have a cheesy grin on my face. I was about six weeks into postpartum depression, and have never forgotten that humiliation.

  33. I sent an email to the “contact us” link with this message….

    “Does your church have a Sunday morning service? I did not see one listed on your service times. I can’t believe a Fundamentalist, King James only church would not have a Sunday morning service! I hope you are not turning liberal.”

    Their response,

    “Yes, we do have a Sunday morning service. Nevertheless, our main service is in the evening, the service we normally invite our visitors to. I am therefore inviting you tomorrow evening to our Sunday evening at 6:30 p.m. service as my guest.

    Do you need a ride tomorrow evening? If you are in Orange County and need a ride, please e-mail with your phone number and address so that we can arrange you a ride.

    Come and hear some good KJV Bible preaching, sing some hymns, have some good fellowship, and see the kind of old-fashioned church that wicked liberals and apostates from Fundamentalism hate.


    Reverend C. P. Hanson”

    I especially like the last last line! 😉

  34. WOW! This is a perfect example of why you only put 2 to 3 words in LARGE TYPE on a line in a teleprompter! IT’S SO DISTRACTING to see his eyes darting back & forth! I’m curious how 666 is a prime number?

  35. @Susan

    The fundie church I attended wasn’t like that, but I know several in my area that are. Which leads us to: calling out individuals in the audience for some wrongdoing or another… another thing fundies like. : (

  36. He refers to himself as “Reverend.” I’ve never met an IFB pastor that signed his name that way. Most that I’ve met are against it, because it sounds Catholic (or Protestant, take your pick).

  37. As Web 2.0 as the site may be, I take great comfort in the constancy that the site still commits the early-90s web sin of having music start automatically on the front page.

  38. @Susan – that makes me so sad to hear.

    I’ve struggled with depression, and one day at church I found myself just crying through the whole service. I sat through the whole hour – hymns, sermon, announcements – with tears streaming down my face. One very kind woman who is in her 80s handed me a tissue packet and patted me on the back during the hymn. I’m so thankful that she just let me weep quietly without singling me out. Sometimes you just need to sit in church and cry.

    I’m sending you a virtual hug and handing you a virtual packet of tissues. 🙂

  39. @Susan and UptownHippie.
    The previous church I was a fundyland church. The pastor there sent a letter to a young widow telling her to stop crying in church. Unbelievable but true, I found this out from the widow’s sister. It is kind of like telling someone to stop bleeding or get out of the hospital.

  40. JimE,
    all that crying distracts the others from hearing his Immaculate Message, birthed between the pastor’s throne and the pulpit.
    Besides who cares if someone is hurting in the IFB world, to show you are hurting like that is like wearing sack cloth and ashes when you are fasting… suffer in silence! and the Lord will bless you. Can’t they see that, that much emotion conflicts with the pastor’s bag of emotionally manipulative tricks to get people down to the altar for the weekly head-count?? duh
    all satire aside it takes a sick s.o.__ to send a letter like that.

  41. Wow! Listen to this guy speak. Hor-ri-ble. Who comes and listen to this guy? He has to have a fake church and just puts this stuff on the net. Just sad, I could never bring a visitor to hear this guy. He is struggling. I feel bad for him.

  42. Late getting to SFL, saw this as one of the “Random Posts”…Didnt listen to his sermons but did look at his doctrinal statement…
    It wasnt until “The Apostacy” that you find out this guy is Whacko…Attacking everyone from Rick Warren, to Jerry Falwell to Bill Gaither(Who hard-core Fundies HATE btw-Bob Jones (or maybe Horton from PCC) called him the Ant-Christ for being too liberal!) to Bill Gaither to Pentacostals as being Satan’s apostates…OiVey!

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