116 thoughts on “Having an Advocate”

    1. And who are you, that we should bow so low?
      Only a cat of a different coat, that’s all the truth I know.
      In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws,
      And mine are long and sharp, my lordess, as long and sharp as yours.

      No. Wait…

    1. I’m not a fundamentalist, but it seems to me that tax exemption has long been considered by the SCOTUS to be part and parcel of protecting First Amendment freedoms. So if it were to be removed, it would be a real concern, not only to fundy’s like this fellow, but to Christians in general, not to mention other religions.

      1. It depends on what they’re doing. If a “church” gets extremely political, partisan, to the point they’re more of a political entity than a group that worships God, then their tax exempt status maybe should be in jeopardy. That also wouldn’t mean that churches which are really churches have their tax exempt status in jeopardy.

        1. Oh I don’t know! Can you tell me where in the scripture it says the Christian’s duty is to stick up for his rights? Particularly, say, the right to kill using “second amendment remedies”?

        2. Our local peacenik organization here in my home town have tax exempt status and even a retail store where you don’t have to pay the local sales tax. They are purely political in their mission on every level, handing out flyers on every issue featuring their political views on a wide array of subjects. I don’t have a problem with it. No, they aren’t “religious” but they certainly have a religious fervor in their approach.

        1. Exactly. It’s perfectly okay to be into politics and have an opinion, but if you’re going to claim to believe in separation of church and state, you’ve got to leave politics out of the church. Address what you need to address as far as the business of the church goes (taxes, permits, etc.), but leave political opinion out of it.

          Otherwise, say you believe in the combination of both, but then you’re going to have to accept what the state does (gay marriage, for example).

          They can’t have it both ways.

        2. I live in the metropolitan area of a large city, and many inner-city churches are deeply involved in politics – only the liberal, Democratic side.

          It’s not just conservatives.

        3. And they all claim to believe in separation of church and state, but a church that involves itself in politics is not adhering to that.

          It’s one thing to say, “As a Christian, I don’t believe in…….”, but if a church body involves itself in politics, it can’t claim that. Regardless of the party or group.

      2. HAHAHAHAHA! No. No, no, no. NO. The tax exemption isn’t about protecting freedom of speech at all. It was specifically introduced to curtail freedom of speech, and functions in that regard to this day. It is, by it’s very definition, a limiting of free speech. Any “spin” to the contrary is just that – spin.

      3. The removal of tax exempt status (401(c)(3)) would force believers to live by faith and in the Spirit…not at the whim of the government.

        B.R.1

  1. And now that I’ve read it…

    His name sounds familiar. Hmmm. I’m assuming by “bible believers” he means “people who want a theocracy and will twist the constitution into supporting that”.

      1. When my son was in Fundy grade school, his teacher kept a list of preacher requests for the students to remember in their morning prayer. On this list was a missionary family with the last name “White”. Every morning the teacher would read the list and include “remember to pray for the Whites in (mission field). One morning, sonny asked “Shouldn’t we pray for the black people there too?” Bless his heart.

  2. Nothing like blending church and state…. Or saying we don’t, but really we do. We don’t when the state wants to impose laws on us and allow gays to marry… Except, we do when we want to oppress people legally… But we’ll say we don’t, even if we do, but don’t tell anyone.

    1. it’s ok to blend church and state as long as it’s MY church. I don’t want none of those muzlims bringing that sharia law stuff, they can stick to the bible like the rest of us. None of that catholic stuff either, they worship Mary y’know.

      1. Well, Catholics aren’t Christians anyway, HAYMEN? Unless you’re a KJV-totin’, Cathedrals-listnin’, white shirt wearin’, whole milk drinkin’, Chick tract totin’, Republican-votin’, obnoxiously loud prayin’ Independent Fundamental Baptist, well, you just better just get used to sitting in the heat, haymen…. HAYMEN!!!

        1. Oh yes, and side-huggin. Forgot that one. There’s a complete list somewhere. Probably in the white piano.

        2. The Cathedrals? That music has a sinful BEAT. Can’t do the Lord’s work with the world’s music. I’ll have to pray for you, my sister, to realize that sensual syncopation is Satanic seduction.

  3. The pastor of this church once famously said,

    “My flesh kind of likes the idea of killing gays.”

    the Admiral

    1. Remove the “k” word and the whole meaning changes – he’d better hope he’s never misquoted

      1. But, the sheer hatred that these guys carry around is unreal. And, they justify it saying it’s a holy anger. It’s not. Not even close.

        1. No, and where do they have the example in Jesus’ life of “holy anger?” Because he flipped a table once? That’s not wanting to kill people.

  4. At least the pastor of the church in question is qualified. From the church website:

    “In 2006, Brother Leatherman was presented an Honorary Doctorate by the Northeast Baptist School of Theology in Downingtown, PA. Brother Leatherman’s sermons are regularly featured on the Fundamental Broadcasting Network’s “Selected Programming” feature and has had a number of sermons printed in the Sword of the Lord newspaper.”

        1. According to Google just now, it’s still around. And the News section on the front page is still being updated, so I’m presuming the company is still active and not just keeping the lights on in the server room.

        2. Didn’t Darrell recently feature a FWOTW that had Juno account?

        3. Don’t knock it! I’ve got a junk account. I mean a Juno account. It’s what I use to sign in to stuff I don’t want sending me junk. I empty it every six months or so.

    1. Well you can’t be anything but a gun-toting, Southern-accent-faking fundamentalist with a name like “Leatherman” – he’s pretty much locked into his fate

    1. And they try to say the same about the Magna Carta- including the idea that they are related. Well, I am deeply acquainted with both, and there’s really not much that ties them. Trial by jury being the main thing. But you won’t find that in the Bible…

  5. Chuck Harding of … The Capitol Connection!

    http://awakeamericaonline.org/capitol-connection-2015.html

    Yes, folks! This is the joker who has for the last several years organized vacations, errrr, “missions trips” for pastors to go see their congressmen in Washington, D.C. Each time the event has been earthshaking, history-changing, and otherwise momentous as they visited the religiously preposterous movers and shakers and mouthy “pieces” in Congress to be told what they want to hear!

    And of course, since it doesn’t do to go a leader without bearing gifts (Proverbs 18:16, “A man’s gift makes room for him And brings him before great men.”) you will be sure to be hit up for political donations to be sent by your pastor!

    You *will* want to send your Pastor, won’t you? It is the “opportunity to change the course of history!” And it only costs $225. For the conference and the meals during the conference. There is the little matter of hotels for three nights, transportation to and from Independent Baptist Church, lunch, and other sundry expenses.

    Lodging for 3 nights (this far in advance), $156 for the last room at the Super 8, to $379 at the Hampton Inns and Suites. If you wait, prices are bound to go up up up!

    Chuck Harding is your Constitutional Advocate! While you need an Advocate in Heaven, Chuck Harding wants you to be aware of your Constitutional Rights here on earth. Like the Second Amendment, allowing you to shoot and kill the heathen who knock at your door as a pretext to rob and kill you. Do them first! And you have to be aware of your Second Amendment Rights because they protect your First Amendment Rights to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Worship (no, this does not apply to Muslims! or Liberals either!). You have to be ready to fight an evil government to protect your freedoms because ooh! scary! change! Obama! gays! they are coming to get you!

    So aren’t you glad you have the freedom to go lobby your congressmen and ply them with gifts while you cower in fear at their awesome antiChrist might? Sign up today!

    1. My former pastor prefers to travel in style – and tends to bring a travel companion (last time it was the mayor of our city) – so I would expect the cost for him to travel to this event to be pretty high. I would love to see the credit card receipts that he turns into the church, but suspect those do not receive the scrutiny they really deserve. $$$$
      On the days of this lobbying campaign he is not actively doing his job as pastor. I doubt he is using vacation days, so this should also be added to the cost of attending this Capitol Connection charade.

      1. “My former pastor prefers to travel in style”

        So does mine. Drives a Mercedes SUV. I suppose that elevates him to a higher level within fundystan.

        B.R.1

        1. Dear BigRed1:

          Wouldn’t a real fundamentalist pastor drive a Jaguar?

          Christian Socialist

        1. “I’m glad that he’s your FORMER pastor.”

          Me too!
          It saddens me that others have fallen for his “vision” and have him placed high upon a pedestal.

  6. USAmerican fundamentalism seems to be quite narcissistic. Somehow the ideal Biblical culture is 1950’s USA. And the inspired word of God is the KJV–which is in a version of our language. The Constitution–which most people say gives us freedom–is interpreted by fundamentalists to be freedom for only people of the same culture and faith as fundamentalists.

    Fundamentalists have deified the KJV and the Constitution.

    1. I used to attend a local non-denominational evangelical church where the associate pastor preached, on July 4th, from the writings of George Washington. The assembly concluded with “Onward Christian Soldiers” and it was probably the loudest I had ever heard the congregation sing. I felt really awkward.

  7. I laugh at his All American Sunday.

    I plan on watching 10, count ’em 10, Constitutional advocates tonight during the GOP debate. My guess is all of them, except for Trump, will make a comment(s) about the Constitution and how Obama is ignoring it, ripping it up etc. etc. Trump will just tell us about all the plans he has that he doesn’t have time to go into detail about right now.

    I will have my popcorn.

    1. Trump’s speech has been leaked. Here are highlights:

      I’m rich! Don’t vote for those dummies and losers. I’m rich! I will save the country from all those scary people, like Mexicans– they’re all rapists, and blacks– they’re all lazy criminals, and Chinese people– they’re devious. And I’ll win by getting the Hispanic, black, and Asian votes. Did I mention how rich I am?

  8. But of course! Why have only one document that you selectively cite and worship as an idol while ignoring the bulk of what’s actually in it when you can have two?

  9. Sad what passes for church in these places. Church is a place to worship God, not devote the service time to politics.

    1. Agreed.

      But the church is actually the body of Christ, not a place. Believers don’t GO to church, they are the church.

      Therefore, it simply cannot be the Mog’s church. That’s heresy.

      B.R.1

      1. Yes, the Church is the body of believers, but when I attend a church service, I expect the service to center on worshiping God. Politics are for before/after church services.

    1. That should read Politics. (This word actually come from the Greek word “poly” meaning many and “ticks” which are small blood-sucking insects)

      1. “Blood” is a synonym for “money”. They’re bleeding this chick dry.

      1. He acult seems to be a pretty decent politician (by the standard of politician here) I would disagree with a lot of his politics but he works a lot harder than some of them.

        1. Not acult, should read “actually”…
          I think he goes to the same church as my niece, where her husband is assistant pastor.

  10. I live about an hour from this guy. He is tucked away in western MD and tries to yuck it up with the SOTL crowd. He’s a fundy’s fundy. I always viewed him as fundy, even when I was pastoring in fundy churches.

    1. I am the opposite of a constitutional expert, but I suspect it has something to do with covert forces

      1. Yep. Missing are the speaker of the house and the Senate president pro tempore, both of whom would succeed before the Secretary of State.

        1. He has the pre-25th amendment (ratified in 1967) list of presidential succession. Secretary of State Alexander Haig made the same mistake in 1981 (when Reagan was shot) and was roundly mocked at that time for it.

        2. BTW, My assumption is he looked that up in his home 1950 encyclopedia set and posted it on his site (to appear informed obv).

        3. Rob, the order of succession if the President dies or resigns or is removed is actually established in the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 (which superseded previous laws on the subject), not in the Constitution itself. The Constitution says Congress can make such rules, but doesn’t spell out all the details.
          The Presidential Succession Act is codified as 3 U.S.C. § 19.
          So the “Constitutional Expert” was probably using his 1940 encyclopedia.

          The 25th Amendment (1967) provides for filling a vacancy in the office of Vice President, and also for what happens when the President is temporarily or permanently incapacitated. It came into play when Agnew and then Nixon resigned (Agnew, then Ford had to be replaced as Vice Presidents); and Reagan and George W. Bush each invoked it during hospital stays to transfer power to their Vice Presidents (for a very short time in each case).

        4. Ah thx. I know that at one point Sec State was #3, and Alexander Haig still thought it was him 3rd in 1981

    2. First mistake: six words into it. (President’s name has not one, but two misspellings.)
      And yes, he gets the order of succession completely wrong.

  11. Dear ChuckEChees…er…Harding:

    What Biblical evidence can you muster that Jesus supported Rome’s state religion of political piety?

    Christian Socialist

    PS: All responses must be coded in ‘Authorized’ language. You know what I mean, Chuck…

  12. The IFB is all about three things; money, power, and control. A significant venue they achieve these three things is by manipulation of the emotions of their members. This type of patriotic day is no different than thousands others held in various IFB churches throughout the country at various times. They will talk about how great the USA is (pride), how God established the US for true Christians (commitment), how the liberals are taking the US away from Christianity (anger), how our children won’t have a country and God will be angry (fear), and how it’s because the church members aren’t right with God (guilt). There will then be an alter call where everyone will go forward and rededicate their money, time, and talents to whatever “vision” the MoG currently has which is sure to include growing the church to expand the power base.

    1. Dear Hiddenexfundie:

      You’ve brought together the main components of this civil-religion gig, explained relationships between them, and defined the motive driving them. Well done!

      Christian Socialist

    2. HiddenExFundie: This is (sadly) a very cynical look and paints all IFB churches with a broad brush that is not deserved.

      I still go to an IFB, and it is poles apart from the controlling, Jack Hyles-following church that I used to attend. Some of the “big” IFB ministries begin to think it is all about them, and get like you describe.

      I still remember clearly sometime last year when the pastor got up and said that, as a church we had a three-fold purpose in the following order:

      #1 is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ
      #2 is to build up one another
      #3 is to evangelize the lost

      It was quite a change from the previous church, whose pastor never gave such a list, but based upon the emphasis and activities, I would say

      #1 is to grow the church via cold-calling
      #2 is to honor the pastor in all things
      #3 to discredit those who left in fear that they may tell the truth about what was going on.

      1. Guilt Ridden: I am sincerely glad that you have found a church that works for you. I will freely admit that there are many IFB churches out there that are different than the Hyles camp churches in that they are not as forcibly angry in their speech and mannerisms.

        However it is rare in the extreme (like finding a winning lottery ticket) to find an IFB church that doesn’t follow the standard IFB model including being pastor centric and legalistic. When confronted with some of these issues the members of these churches respond on one of two ways; either they justify it as being scriptural or they make the broad brushing claim. Most of these people refuse to accept the truth of the situation because they have found a place that works for them and a thing called personal bias that we all have.

        I have also heard the list preached from the pulpit but preaching and saying it does not equate to living it. When I attend a church one of the first things I look at is the missionaries they support and especially if they support the CLA. Any church or pastor that supports David Gibbs jr and the CLA is a part of the problem and will not be trusted by me. I also look to see if they have an outreach ministry to take care of the physical needs of the poor and homeless including clothing, food, and shelter (passing out sandwiches once a year doesn’t count). When a church member is I a financial bind and needs a hundred dollars are they given a twenty dollar bill with a “will this help?”. Only partially meeting the need is not meeting the need at all.

        You are probably correct in that I am somewhat cynical. After seeing people be abused at church after church I would hope that people would understand why I and many others are cautious in the extreme letting our guard down.

        I think the question that begs to be asked is if the church you attend is not like most of the IFB movement and is kind, gracious, giving, and godly then why does it still identify as an IFB church. Yes, the statement can be made that each IFB church is it’s own identity but to deny you are identifying with a group but try to deny you are like them is duplicitous.

  13. I’ve heard this guy speak before… It’s stomach-churning.

    He’s convinced that all of the “Founding Fathers” were Baptists… Further, he’s said that church services in that day were VERY politically charged. Now, I’m no history major, but I have a hard time believing that. If I’m wrong on that, I’m wrong. But this guy deifies the Constitution, the KJV and the founders of the USA.

    He also sells pocket copies of the Constitution for like $5 a pop or something. Along with some DVDs of himself blathering on about all this garbage… And the people I was in that gathering with ate it right up.

    1. $5??! I got a sheaf of them from my roommate (one of them is in my purse right now). She was working for the Army then, and they were getting them for pennies.

      As to highly politically charged- he’s thinking of the century before that, when there were State churches. Literally. And yes, sermons were charged. But that is exactly why the _actual_ Founders, a century later, insisted that there be no State church. They had no desire to repeat that- they saw what had happened, such as what happened to Anne Hutchinson and Roger Williams, and the chaos that resulted from religious suppression

      The Pilgrims didn’t come to the colonies to establish religious freedom. They came to establish their own State churches. The Founds looked at that model, saw that it didn’t work, and changed it.

      1. Lots of places will give you a pocket copy of the Constitution for free. I have half a dozen, and didn’t pay for any of them. Frequently it comes in a booklet with (for example) the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the National Anthem, and the Gettysburg Address.
        You can also download the Constitution for free from a multitude of Internet sites (including the National Archives, which has the originals of the Constitution).

  14. Aaah, yes! My former private school principal for 7 years! Then God called him away to travel the country doing this stuff! ^^^^^

  15. Having participated in my fair share of ‘God and Country Sundays’, I have to say that this sort of thing is a good example of where American Christianity comes across as sort of silly. God is not an American, and by tying your Christianity to your patriotism you diminish both. You also ignore clear Bible teaching ) that God called you out of whatever nation, tribe, kindred you were from and made you one in Himself. Your citizenship is now in heaven and you are merely a sojourner here.
    As a street preacher I’m a big fan of the Constitution and the liberties it affords me, but I also know the church of Jesus Christ got along just fine without it.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.