194 thoughts on “Pastor God”

      1. If you scroll down this list, you’ll see that one of his sons is also pastoring in the Harrisburg area. Yes, that’s right, there is more than one Pastor God. And I believe he may have more than one son that followed their dad into the ministry, though I’m not sure of that.

        So the question is: what would you call his son(s)? Pastor God the Son?

        1. I just had a good laugh. When I was young, my mom would always say about people who took their minor positions of authority too seriously–“Does he/she think he/she is God, Jr.?”

  1. One of my brothers went to this church for a few years. Based on my limited experiences at that church, I know I would not personally choose to sit under the leadership of Pastor God. On the other hand, despite his Napoleon Dynamite-esque appearance, I’m told Pastor Kyle is a very nice man. I believe his family and my brother’s family are still good friends.

  2. I don’t know, man, I just…I don’t know. I guess it makes me hateful and prejudicial, but there’s something about Pastor Kile (youth and children’s pastor) that makes me not want my kids to be around him.

  3. I think he, or should that be He, must have been predestined to be a religious leader. Good thing he, uh He, chose this career path too because really can you imagine h–Him doing anything else? Dr. God. Nah. Professor God. Nope. God the janitor, no, it had to be Pastor God.

  4. I was really hoping it was a typo, but after some scouting around on the web site, it isn’t. However, maybe there is hope, as I spotted a teen girl in pants in one photo, and another one in shorts!

    1. “In high school, he was known as Shammgod Wells. However, upon attending Providence College, he was forced to either legally change his name to Shammgod Wells, or to use his legal name of God Shammgod. Because he did not have the $600 required to legally change his name, he was known as God Shammgod from that point onward.”

      You know times are tough when even God can’t come up with a $600 legal fee.

  5. Sometimes when I hear of certain last names I will think to myself as a woman, “You’d have to really love someone to accept THAT as a last name” and I’m thinking it again. How horrible it would be to go around being called “Mrs. God.” Or “God’s wife.” Or any number of things I could think of. I’ll bet everywhere they go people say, “Is this for real? Is that really your last name?”

      1. In Alabama, it’s pretty much required to take the husband’s last name.

        My wife used her maiden name for professional reasons while working in Alabama. When she retired she attempted to go back to her married name, and this caused all sorts of problems with Social Security, drivers license, insurance, etc.

        1. I read an interesting article once about a Canadian lady with the unusual name of Chamber Landis. He moved to America, met an American guy, fell in love, eventually married. Her husband’s name was Timothy Potts.

      2. I don’t think any U.S. state has a law saying a woman has to take her husband’s surname. My wife didn’t, and my brother’s wife didn’t, and there was never any legal issue with it in either case.

        In fact, in most states (if not all) anybody is free to use pretty much any name they want, as long as they use it consistently and no fraud or deception is involved.

      3. II Lady Semp,
        If a godly woman wants to be in the center of God’s will, she will take her husband’s last name as a sign of her submission to her husband as her covering.

        “Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.”
        I think that’s in I Pedro.

        1. My name’s not Sarah, my husband’s name isn’t Abraham, and isn’t my long, glorious, beautiful hair supposed to be a covering?

        2. That would make you GOD(iva)!!!!! Lady Semp, I think you might just have to find yourself a member of the God family.

        3. Dr F, BJg — Since I’m not a godly woman, I guess these rules don’t apply. Also, neither of you is the boss of me. Pfffbt!

  6. Also, I didn’t know that Olan Mills fake bookshelf backdrop behind Pastor Kile still existed. I think it shows up in at least one family photo from when I was about 4.

    1. No, that’s just the mural on his wall. It says he has a children’s ministry-type education, so he probably doesn’t have any real books that aren’t already colored in.

        1. I have a friend who fosters kids taken from very bad situations. She had three siblings called, Breezy Wheezy, Measle Weasle and Nosmo King. I wish this was a joke but it isn’t. Poor babies. They were thankfully renamed.

        2. When I was a kid the couple next door was Fred and Shirley Knott. I loved to refer to them as Fret Not and Surely Not.

          the Admiral

        3. When the actors Rip Torn and Geraldine Page were husband and wife, the sign on their mailbox said “Torn Page.”

          True story.

        1. There is or was a South American Cardinal who’s name was Sinn – Cardinal Sinn. Don’t think he has much chance of becoming the pope.

  7. A previous leader of the Catholic church in the Philippines was Jaime Sin – Cardinal Sin. He died in 1988.His residence became known as “The House of Sin”

    1. Cardinal Sin was a very, very famous and influential church leader.
      But the Cardinal Sins weren’t named for him– they already had that name before Jaime Sin was a Cardinal.

  8. Reminds me of when I was in college in Iowa in the 1960s. The Methodist bishop there was named John Wesley Lord.

    With a name like that, how could he miss becoming a bishop?

  9. This also reminds me of the present governor of Alabama.

    He is a retired dermatologist. To gain advantage in the Republican primary election, he went to court to legally change his name to “Doctor Robert Bentley.” Then the state Republican party told him that he couldn’t be listed on the ballot that way.

    So, he went back to court and changed his name to Robert Bentley again. His detractors (including me) refer to him as “Doctor Doctor Bentley.”

        1. When I heard one of them being paged over the intercom I always wanted to sing, Doctor, doctor, give me the news….lol

        2. So my link works, just doesn’t look as cool as everyone else’s. Guess I’ll have to figure out how to do that. Mine is Spies Like Us, of course.

          the Admiral

      1. “God has a bad comb-over” has me giggling, and yes, it would be perfect for an album or song title, or at least a lyric.

        Reminds me of the line in the Sugarcubes song Deus: “He wasn’t white and fluffy. He just had sideburns.”

    1. That reminds me of all the discussions people used to have about why Muammar Gaddafi was still just a colonel.
      Presumably he could have made himself a general or an admiral or a grand pooh-bah if he had wanted to.

  10. I had to look this one up. Gag! It is real! There is a “Pastor God”!

    I agree with leo the lamb. He should ask that he be referred to as “Pastor Jim.” I can think of no reason other than a perverse kind of pleasure that he would insist on being called “Pastor God.”

    It gives a whole new (and downgraded) meaning to “the preaching of God’s word.” As for “God’s will,” I am sure it is done at Bible Baptist Church in New Bloomfield, PA.

    Well, I can’t say this sort of thing doesn’t happen outside of IFB-dumb. But that it happens anywhere ….

    Interesting. Not nice, but interesting. I would feel like giggling if I weren’t so shocked at the hubris that kept him from changing his name.

    1. perhaps since his last name actually is God, why should he not go by that? If a fundy, as you love calling those who hold to biblical truth, complained about someone in one of your watered down churches doing the same thing, you would be all over them for being a “typical fundy”, so judgmental, dogmatic, hateful, etc., etc.. Correct? Yes, I believe so. Jesus did not call us to denigrate and put down others with infantile jokes and attacks, did he? Yet this site seems to relish just that.

      1. “a fundy, as you love calling those who hold to biblical truth”
        See, you’re just asking for it.

        Holding to Biblical truth can mean soooooo many different things. My current pastor does, and he is most definitely NOT a fundy. My former pastor said he held to truth, but isntead he held on to 1950’s traditions and worshipped Jack Hyles. So yes, fundy, and no, NOT holding to Biblical truth. And so yes, we will poke fun at the ridiculousness of Hamblin and the irony of what so many say they believe and what they actually live.

      2. “If a fundy, as you love calling those who hold to biblical truth, complained about someone in one of your watered down churches…”

        Wow. Nice job. Unfortunately I don’t actually think you’re a Poe.

      3. Ah, I will agree with you to a small point. Fundies do think they hold to “Biblical Truth,” but they don’t do that in fact.

        They are very full of themselves. They love to jeer at others. True humility is very rare. So why should they object to being jeered? You reap what you sow.

        I admit it. I was a fundy myself back in the day. When I make fun of it, I know that was me in the past. It is a bitter sort of mirth. The things they believe I believed, more or less. Of course, each fundy thinks he has it right and others all have something wrong. But I know what I was, and I am not pleased with it one bit.

        If God gives you grace, you will likely look back on your life much the same way. God in Heaven, that is. Not “Pastor God.”

  11. This is a parody, joke site, right? This cannot be a real, actual Christian website with followers of Jesus Christ, correct? I have not had time to read through it, so I am just wondering. Goodnight.

    1. I have not had time to read through it, so I am just wondering

      Then do so. You will no longer have to wonder. Some of us are followers, some are not. Most of us have scars from our years of pastoral manipulation in the Fundy world. Try getting to know us before you judge us.

    2. Do you mean, Funasafundie, this SFL site, or “Pastor God’s” site?

      SFL takes actual videos, photos, posters, etc. from actual sources. Often you’ll see comments like “I know that pastor” Or church.

      Or as Dave Barry would say: “I am not making this up.”

    3. This is a real website. As real as something that is virtual can be, that is. You have not hallucinated this site, nor have you dreamt it.

      Most any site you visit will have an “about” section. If you move your cursor to the link that says “about” you can click on it and discover more fully what the site is about. Here is the link to the SFL “about” page. http://www.stufffundieslike.com/about-2/

      May I point out that the Pope believes in certain “Biblical truths” but fundies will never say he is a fundy. You can hold to certain beliefs contained in the doctrines of fundamentalism but not be a fundy. Conversely, you can be a fundy but not believe in certain “Biblical” concepts.

      I’d love to stay and chat but I need to figure out which tat I’ll get next, then which bottle of wine I will open. After that I will put on my yoga pants and get ready for bed.

        1. Was it a good Bible, or one of those bad ones that command us to lie and commit adultery and tell us that if we’ll just believe on the Lord Krishna, we will be saved?

    4. Something doesn’t right about funasafundie. A true IFB is not going to stumble upon this website for the first time and use a name that has the term “fundie” in it. No way.
      I am thinking a Poe or a long-time lurker, first time poster.

  12. Aaand if there were any doubt as to what you’d find inside the church, their website menu gives a big hint by being alliterated.

    Purpose – Position – Philosophy – Programs – Pastors – Place

    I used ta didn’t mind alliteration until I listened to Dr. Bob Wood in chapel. Now I hateses it! Okay, maybe that’s a bit strong. It’s a huge turn-off anyway.

    So much preaching is much more performance art than a practical discipleship method.

  13. Oh, wow. I know this family.
    I was really good friends with one of his sons in high school. In fact, we recently reconnected through Facebook. The son who is my friend (trying to protect his privacy) is no longer fundy, though I think the other kids may be. I told my friend about this site the last time I saw him, thinking he would enjoy it. I never dreamed his dad would show up as the topic of conversation!

    1. If he centers his ministry around himself… he can at least truly say he has a God-centered ministry…

      His wife is actually Godly…

      He is doing God’s will in his life…

      Doing the work of God…

      By the hand of God…

      His house is ruled by God…

      Has Godly parents and children…

      He is definitely in God’s will…

      Doing thing’s God’s way…

      His neighbors are near God…

      …. ok I’m done…. for now

  14. I knew of church that “traded” a Pastor Mann for a Pastor Angel. The standard joke was that they were going to look for a “Pastor God” next. Well, at least now we know there’s one out there.

  15. I think it’s funny that he doesn’t use the title Reverend.

    I know many fundies shy away from that, but I’d be willing to make an exception in this case. ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Hello Brian! Welcome back! Even if you are spamming us here.

      But are you really sure you want our comments? I mean, The first paragraph in the introduction is controversial. The ultimate value of any religion is how well it relieves your fear of death.

      Oh, really? The ultimate? Perhaps that is why so many people of faith are so obnoxious here on earth, because with no fear of death, they have nothing to restrain their jerky nature? Is religion only “pie in the sky when you die” stuff?

      Wow. My take is that a Faith which has no power for the here and now is worthless.

      If all you want is to relieve the fear of death, there are lots of religions for that. Or maybe you could get the same thing by smoking something.

      And with the talk about Salvation being offered for free, what is with the $3.99 cent price tag for the full book?

      I mean, right there would be plenty of ammunition.

      Of course, you may be thinking, these people aren’t saved, or else they wouldn’t mock fundamentalism. You’d be wrong, but then we told you that when you hung around here last. In any case, I wouldn’t pay for the book.

      Hope you have a good day!

      1. You wanna know how I lost my fear of death? I lost it when I watched my teenage daughter, an atheist with lots of reason for being that, comfort my strictly fundy father on his death bed. He was afraid, she has a very dangerous neurological disease and has flatlined and been revived, three times. She told him not to worry, that dying wasn’t scary, that your body relaxes and your mind loses fear when you come to the actual point of death. Anyone can say they are not afraid of death, my father said that, preached that all his life but it was different when it came to him. As we have said before, words are cheap.

        1. Fundies peddle the fear of death. If someone isn’t afraid, the preach hell and judgment just for being born into the human race. They proclaim that God won’t look at any of the good they have done. The point is to make the hapless heater afraid and desperate. God isn’t loving. Time is running out, and this is the only remedy.

          Because God isn’t going to give a sinner time to believe by experiencing His goodness, as Paul said in Romans. Only fear and terror will convince the sinner, right Brian? Got to make the sinner realize God could send him to hell at a moment’s notice.

          Otherwise, I don’t think a lot of people carry around the fear of death. Not really. People live their lives. Friends and family die, memorials are held. But lots of people don’t really believe in hell these days. Nobody wants to die. But then, Christianity hasn’t been very good for the living in too many cases.

          People really don’t like hucksters. I am one of them.

      2. I feel truly sad for most of you. So very very deluded. I am sure many have been hurt. Who hasn’t been in some way? To live as you do. To seemingly live HERE for the very purpose of tearing down, insulting and mocking others, others who have families, believe in and serve God, who have their own hurts and pains and struggles, and all you do is sit here and pontificate with high-mindedness and every form of pomposity imaginable, hurting others, ridiculing, and, seemingly blind to that fact. This site is the very opposite of how Christ calls His church to represent Him.

        1. Yeah. I feel sorry for you, too. To feel you have to come into a site where you know you won’t be welcome to deliver pompous half-assed and less-brained judgments about the people on here.

          IFB-ism is the opposite of how the Scriptures indicate the Church is to represent Christ.

          Now I know some people are very sincere in IFB circles. They can’t stand criticism, especially if it is justified, so they attempt to quash it. Their sincere desire to be right at the expense of all else is obvious. Others are obviously sincere in trying to do good in a bad system. Still, they are in a bad system. You may even be a sincere heckler. I doubt it, but the possibility is there. Sincerity doesn’t make you any better, though. And I still feel sorry for you!

        2. Yesterday I read something that really struck a chord. It basically turned tables on people who say they hate the sin but love the sinner. What this person said was that he also hated the belief but loved the believer and I suggest that fundamentalists have more difficulty loving someone who has different beliefs, than someone who is a blatant sinner.

  16. That’s a local church to me and I actually know Pastor God. I’ve done some consulting work on their PA system. Although traditional, I don’t think most people here would lump him into the problematic churches typically found on here.

    1. Actually, “R”, I actually do reprove, rebuke and exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine, regardless of what the name is over the church door. I’ve seen plenty of craziness in “IFB” churches, as well as every other stripe. My first encounter in the CHristian world was with charismatic Christians. Talk about craziness. Yet, some of my closest friends came from that movement. I don’t judge people, as you do, by the name over the church door, lumping everyone together, and I certainly do not go around day after day seeking to ridicule and mock others. I made one comment about this site, and it was not “half-assed”, which means incompetent; inadequate., which my comment certainly was not. I think it hit you a little too close to home, actually. I have visited this site a number of times and you always seem to be here. How is that possible? Is THIS your life?

      The vast majority of “IFB” (you can tell I hate labels) people I know are exactly the same, and are god-fearing, loving, genuine people who simply get up every day, work hard to support and raise their families, serve God in their churches, reach out in various ways to their neighbors and communities, and are just — PEOPLE.

      You folks cannot seem to see past your biased noses and realize that you are not exemplifying the kind of gracious speech that Christ calls us to. Pointing out error, when appropriate, is godly and right, but to find reasons to ridicule under every IFB rock, for the slightest reason, is troubling and speaks volumes about your heart attitudes, which, of course, only God can really see. I can only see what I can see outwardly.

      1. Glad you hate labels. I do too. Do you think the Crazy Carismatics hate labels too? Do you tell your closest Charismatic friends that they’re crazy, or just us people here?

      2. I am calling Poe on our friend K here.

        Just in case you are legitimate K, you made me laugh with your statement that the majority of IFB reach out in various ways to their neighbors. That usually means door knocking and inviting them to church. And then ridiculing them when they don’t show up to church.

        1. Scorpio, you are clearly one who lump-sum judges vast swaths of people. Please provide cold, hard facts that the MAJORITY of IFB believers do as you say, since that was your implication. Notice I never said the MAJORITY of IFB people, since I would not have a clue and would not be so presumptuous to make such a claim, but, rather, the majority that I KNOW. There is a huge difference between the two. Your myopic vision caused you to fail to see that simple, but very important nuance.

          If you read the book of Acts, and what the Christians actually did, most activities revolved around preaching the Word and winning souls for Christ. So it would be quite appropriate and scriptural for Bible-believing churches to make that of first importance. Even though most IFB churches I have been familiar with emphasize that greatly and, yes, appropriately invite people to church, and NO do not ridicule them if they do not come (how hateful) but continue in love to reach out to them as the Lord leads, but they also work in nursing homes, visit prisoners, provide free food and clothing, using church funds help with financial and medical needs, and other such “good works”. It simply sickens me that someone could express themselves in such a vile manner concerning millions of people he does not even know. And we SHALL give an account of every idle word we speak.

        2. Wow.

          Why are you sitting at your computer pronouncing judgment on what Scorpio has or hasn’t read? Why do your experiences with fundamentalism trump ours? No church I was involved in ever had ministries to jails/prisons. They’ve never run soup kitchens. Never did the Angel Tree thing, hosted a Thanksgiving meal for the homeless or lonely, never helped local families whose houses burned down. They were too busy door-knocking on Saturday mornings to do any dirty work of being helpful to anyone.

          But hey, what do Scorpio and I know? We’re innately ignorant. At least we’re not angry.

          Anyone who is a proud fundamentalist really has no business being here. Why? Because fundies are supposed to separate from people like us. “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.” Coming here means you’re walking with the ungodly, staying here means you’re standing with the sinners, and commenting means you’re sitting with the scornful. Eventually you will become like us. “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” We know (or at least I do) that we are awful people because we’ve left the compound. Also, “… mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” Much of what is said on here is against the fundamentalist rulebook, so fundamentalists need to flee. Also, time spent here is time not spent scrubbing church toilets or “winning” souls, deeds that are far more important than hanging with the riff-raff.

          It’s National Wine Day. Time for a tall glass.

        3. Sad you are so filled with rage and anger and bitterness, at least seemingly so from the things you say. Again, “scorpio” made an implication that ALL IFB churches or people were a certain way. I called him on that. As I said, all I know is what I KNOW, not what you know nor your experiences. So the churches, out of about 4000 in this country, you were familiar with did not do those things, while the ones, EVERYONE I have been involved with DO. So? I never said you were wrong, and you pointing out you have not experienced that means nothing. It’s sad you have not been exposed to such churches.

          The church I am in now has a free food ministry, a clothing ministry, a nursing home ministry, a deacon’s fund to meet needs of those who come into struggles, toys for tots, meals ministry at Thanksgiving, an outreach ministry for meeting all kinds of needs, depending on what they may be, and we have folks who on their own visit prisoners, homeless shelters, rehab centers and MANY who volunteer to take folks who cannot get around to doctors and whatever places they need to get to,and that’s just some of them. The things I have read on this site seem to be from another world than what my personal experiences have been since I was saved and serving in various churches. So all we know is what we know NOTHING MORE. So how about stop judging and ridiculing millions of people you DO NOT KNOW? Thank you.

        4. Sad? Yes, you are.

          I know about those “deacon’s funds.” Pretty tiny. Not enough to make a big difference. Oh, it might buy a few days’ worth of groceries. But the usual reply to those in need is, “Sorry.”

          And of course, the politicians supported by fundies cut food stamps, heating aid, education, medical care, and so on. The churches don’t even try to meet large scale or long-term needs.

          While it is amusing to watch you beat your head against the wall, you might as well give it up. You are not going to change Us. You are not going to invalidate our experiences, our research, or anything. All you are doing is being obnoxious.

          How about you just pray for us sinners, why don’tcha? But I bet you stick around because you feel something isn’t right with your current situation.

        5. Thing is buddy, we aren’t in the fundy churches spouting our version of things. We are here with ”like-minded” folk being ourselves. Here is where the wounded are, the disillusioned, the escaped slaves, the freed warriors. I put in almost fifty years and a whole family, there is really very little you could tell me about fundamentalists but for some reason that I cannot fathom you come here and try. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

        6. So, Brian, not only do you know what Scorpio has and hasn’t read, now you know what I’m filled with? To make such definite declarations means you are god itself.

          “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.”

          It’s so cool that your church does everything. Doesn’t change the fact that that the religious organizations that I was a member of didn’t do any of those things.

          Some day I’ll make a special trip to NH just to see your church in action. Haven’t decided if I’ll wear my tight jeans and sleeveless top and read my ESV on my Kindle, or if I’ll wear my miniskirt and fishnet tights. Either way you’ll see my ink.

          Go win souls. Remember, you’ll have to give an account for all the souls who wind up in hell because you’re here talking up your religious organization and downgrading the regular posters here when you could have been out soulwinning.

          Bless your little heart. Take a little wine for your stomach’s sake. It’s National Wine Day.

        7. Lady Semp,

          You failed to warn K against casting his pearls before swine. Was this an oversight?

          By the way, do you know how to set things up so we can send and receive personal messages?

          Thanks,

          BP

        8. Lady Semp again,
          That last part didn’t sound quite right. Actually I wouldn’t mind contacting a number of folks on this site provided they didn’t mind being bothered.

        9. Ben Padraic, go over to the forum and set up an account. You can PM me there; I wouldn’t consider you bothering me. Brian and his fellow backsliding fundies need not apply, however. (If fundies come here and stay here and comment they are backsliding. Persecution points don’t apply because of Ps 1:1; also, they should be out doorknocking, or at the very least posting anti-evangelical memes on FB. Persecutions points will only accrue if fundies are witnessing.)

          Posting the pearls before swine bit wasn’t an oversight. I didn’t remember the exact verse and looking it up was way more work than typing four more letters after the first letter of my name (Brian, I hope you repented of that sin of laziness that you owned up to. Doesn’t your deity hate slothfulness?). Also, it was late and I had to go back to being a Proverbs 31 wife.

  17. I think the myopic thinking of many on this site, including you, Eric, make it difficult for you to logically think things through and thus articulate yourselves in a rational way. I said I hate labels. I do hate labels. I said I had SEEN craziness in IFB churches. That was my first point. Notice that my point was not that all IFB people are crazy. Secondly, I said my first Christian friends were charismatic. That is not a label in the sense of pejorative labeling, as we were discussing, but a label they use for themselves. That would be the same as you calling people IFB Christians, since they identify themselves that way. The pejorative label would be the oft used fundy. So, hearkening back to my original point, when I mentioned “talk about craziness”, the clear implication was that WITHIN the charismatic movement is craziness, not that all charismatics are such. I stand by that. I am not labeling any whole group of people. I am simply stating a fact of practices within that movement.

    1. Dear K, I was really only joking with you if at your own expense. Please forgive me. Sorry I hit such a nerve. We do use labels here, sometimes to our own fault. Sometimes to our great pride.

      One label I like is “Dr.” Eric. I have the same doctorate that most IFB and evangelical leaders brag about, even though I turn wrenches for a living. If they get to feign greatness by touting an unearned title, then I suppose I will too.

      “Hi, Bob, our college would like to honor you with a Doctor of Divinity.”

      “Why thank you, Dr. Bill! How’s that Honorary Doctorate we gave you last year holding up?”

      “Oh, it’s solid! It isn’t wearing out at all, and I have been overusing it to a fault!”

      1. MOST brag about? MOST? Here we go again.

        There are approximately 4000 IFB churches in America alone, and you know HOW MANY leaders in those churches?

        I’ve served in many and never knew one of them to brag about anything, actually, unless in joking. They brag about being sinners, imperfect, in need of God’s grace and forgiveness and guidance every day, struggling with issues in their lives, if anything. Of course I am being facetious in using the word “brag”.

        I try very hard to not use terms like every, all, most, never, always, etc. Such emphatic words hardly ever end up being true.

        1. Give it a rest, K. Fundamentalism is much more of a denominational hierarchy than an independent movement. It has its Big Men, it’s Men of God, it’s Schools, it’s theologies, its distinctives. Claim the name and you claim your associations. You are known by the company you keep.

          You like the good things you can claim about fundies. You don’t mind the generalizations if they are good ones. You only object to the bad ones. Even if there is good reason to point out obvious flaws in a ministry as they present themselves, you object to it and declare we are being overly general, tarring all with the same brush.

          If you are on a sports team and your team cheats, you are associated with cheaters. If you are a fundamentalist, you are associated with their sins.

          Get over yourself. Put aside your hypocrisy. That’s all your objections amount to.

          If you don’t want to partake of their sins, you can “come out from among them, and be ye separate … And touch not the unclean things.”

        2. Actually, R, if you really care to know (I doubt it) here is the truth.

          First, I don’t “claim the name”. As I said, I am not into labels. My walk was such that I got saved as a young man, prayed to the Lord earnestly where He would have me serve Him, and, ultimately I ended up at Open Door Baptist Church, which is no longer around. I new nothing about IFB churches, Pastor Hyles, PCC, and so many of the people and institutions you excoriate on this site. I knew nothing at all about any of it. All I wanted to do was serve God, to know HIm, to follow Him and share His love in word and deed with others. That was what was in my heart. It just so happens that all the churches I have served in are what you would call IFB. I know what I know. I know the people I have had the privilege of knowing, becoming friends and serving with. I know the doctrines, the practices, the ministries, etc., of the churches I was in, and others I was aware of. I didn’t “follow the crowd” and necessarily follow what other churches, of any stripe, were doing in other parts of the country. That’s their business. “But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.”

          How would you know what I like or do not, since you do not know me and I did not tell you? God looks at each of us as individuals, and as such we shall all give account. Every church is different and I do not like generalizations. You are tarring all with the same brush, sorry to open your eyes to that, but you truly are. Any objective observer coming to this site notices the same, and I have seen similar comments from others who have wandered off the street into this venue. They see the same thing because they are not here looking for anything in particular, just begin reading, and the tone and general atmosphere is extremely transparent.

          Your foolish analogy holds no weight. I may be on a sports team where there are cheaters, and, to an extent, the team is tarnished, but if it can be clearly demonstrated exactly who cheated, it those INDIVIDUALS who are punished for their behavior. I have no problem, even as I have done, exposing things that should be regarding individuals, or even certain churches that may do wrong, but not painting millions of people with one broad brush.

          So how am I a hypocrite. Please do tell. Nothing you stated proves any such thing.

          As far as “their sins”, um, “ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” I suppose you have not? You are the exception? I am responsible for one person’s sins – mine. Your suggestion is pure foolishness. First, I have no idea what “sins” you refer to, and how do I, one who simply lives his life, works hard, provides for his family, serves in his own church and has his own beliefs and practices, share in someone else’s sins whom I do not even know. What an absurd statement and also misuse of scripture.

        3. My whole family is fundamental Baptists. You couldn’t say anything here that they haven’t said in one way or another, about me or anyone else they disagree with. I love them all, but their arguments are as myopic to me as my words seem to be to you.

          You don’t have any idea who I am, really. Nor do I know you. But in general, I have found that fundies take themselves so seriously that when they are mocked or laughed at, they cut loose with their myopic outrage. You have played directly into my myopic viewpoint.

        4. Lol, Rtgmath. No one wins in this argument. I’ve been having it for decades now with the likes. And it’s always my unimaginative mind that gets blamed in the end. What do you think, should I go by the new handle? (One thin I DID learn after leaving the Baptists was how to laugh at myself.)

        5. Go for it, Dr. E. (Doctor Eric? Dr. Evil? Dr. E.E.?)

          I just be The Master. Or The Masters. Yeah, I have two of them.

          No one wins the arguments. But I won’t let them even begin to think they’ve won. They are too full of themselves. So even if I can’t win, I fight anyway.

        6. Rtg, I honor you for earning two masters degrees. I keep considering finishing my bachelor’s for work, but it will be tough. I truly am amazed at anyone who succeeds in higher education. And I do have fun with the Honorary Doctorate. To me, it was worth every penny even though they’re worthless.

      2. Funny. “Logic” is not found in the Scriptures, yet Fundies want to claim that they use it. Until they don’t.

        I was talking with a preacher some time ago about the natural conclusions one would come to from his statements. He noted that “God’s wYs are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.” So logic didn’t apply. Logic is a man-made formal reasoning process. But then he claimed his POV was logical.

        K, B (whatever) likes to have things both ways. But logic is one thing he doesn’t have.

        1. Ohhh! I see! K is trying to “out” me. Yep, that’s me in the math video. And that discussion on Job — that’s something I wrote.

          There’s lots more.

          So, K, so you think you will embarrass me and make me back off by taking away any anonymity? Not so! Nyaah! So there!

          I own my opinions, buster. It doesn’t matter to me who in the world sees.

  18. Raymond Griffith (rtgmath)

    2

    Super User ยท 2,323 Fans ยท There has got to be a better way!
    “Piper, who recently retired from the pulpit of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, is a leading theologian of the neo-Calvinist movement thatโ€™s sweeping many evangelical churches.”

    And many fundamentalist churches, too, I might add.

    The idea is that “God is in Control,” and if you are not “in control” then He will judge you. This is a very popular theme among fundamentalists, who somehow equate love with harsh treatment (as the Bible in Hebrews 12 claims).

    The Book of Job is particularly troubling to anyone who has actually read it for meaning and context. God gives Job into Satan’s hand in a Cosmic Bet, and allows everything to be taken from Job — including his children and the lives of his servants — to “test” Job’s “integrity.” The destruction of Job and his people is not the fault of Satan. God actually brings Job up as a topic for discussion twice and goads Satan into the bet. God does admit in one conversation that he has moved against Job “without cause.”

    The story demonstrates how little God values human lives. It presents a Cosmic Wager as a possible source for incomprehensible and undeserved suffering. To God, Might makes Right.

    John Piper is the kind of theologian would make me wish to become an atheist if his views are correct. His “God” is a monster. I cannot worship a monster any more, even if that monster has all power.

        1. Ah, ok. Doing our homework, I see. When can we expect to see you using rtgmath’s words against him? Are you sure you’re not in my family?

        2. I love it that K is looking me up. I’ll bet he is searching for contradictions and differences in behavior or assertions depending on the audience.

          But he won’t find it. He might find evidence on how my views have evolved over the years. They have. But my character has remained pretty steadfast.

          So investigate away, K! I’m an open book. I have written a lot over the years. I had a fairly large following on the HuffingtonPost before their comments format changed. Lots of material. Let me know if you want other places to investigate.

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