The Glorification of Child Abuse

**Warning** In this video are some very raw descriptions of violence towards children. If you have a background that involves physical abuse you may want to skip this one.

Note: This sermon was preached in 2011 at Central Baptist Church in Baton Rouge. It’s worth noting that this church also runs a K-12 school where one can only imagine what the discipline policies are like. The pastor of Central,B.G. Buchanan, attended the seminary founded by none other than J. Frank Norris, hero of fundamentalism.

This is not the fringe. This is as mainstream a fundamentalist pedigree as you can get.

442 thoughts on “The Glorification of Child Abuse”

    1. Kidd is obviously a deeply disturbed man, poisoned by anger and fear.
      That’s ironic when his whole topic here is how well he turned out as a result of all the beatings he received in his childhood.

      1. My wife was watching it, and said, “I totally agree with him. He’s the type of man he is because of how his dad treated him.”

        Notice, too, that he’s extolling the merits of beating children mercilessly so that they behave, yet the principal tells him that he’s getting pounded and it isn’t improving his behavior. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

      2. The irony is that Phil Kidd ended up a drug-addicted miscreant, just as he claims his father was. I fail to see why he mentions the way he was raised in a positive light. Cognitive dissonance, indeed.

        1. I remember seeing some kind of testimony about Phil Kidd in regards to putting needles in his arms. He doesn’t go into details anymore about the “hard times and lawlessness” on any internet sources that I can find.

        2. Yes, I remember hearing his testimony, also. He was a violent, lawbreaking addict, if I remember right. So…why the blazes would someone who became those things brag on the abuse that contributed it? What the heck?! Seriously. The logic doesn’t follow.

  1. “I hated that man. I hope he’s in hell tonight.”

    “Quit taking up for your kids. The principal’s always right. The police are right.”

    Wow…

    I have no words.

    1. Yep; just cannot believe in this day of widespread abuse that he would say that the principal is always right.

      As sorely provoked as some people have made me in my life, I don’t think I’ve ever wished for them to be in Hell. That is pretty hard to believe from a so-called “evangelist”.

      I thought that Phil Kidd is fringe.

    2. And this is why abusers thrive in this environment. The adult is always right. Unless it’s the mom interfering with the pastor/principle/dad’s abuse. Then she’s wrong.

      1. This stance caused a lot of trouble in our household growing up.

        I think that the authority gets the benefit of the doubt, but I don’t think that they are “always” right.

        1. No. The authority doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt simply by being in a position of authority.

          Never.

        2. Without evidence on either side, just one person’s word against another, yes, I do think that the authority should get the benefit of the doubt.

          Of course, that is not true if there is evidence supporting one side or another.

          What else could you suggest? Trial by combat? Trial by fire? Always believe the non-authority? How is one better than the other?

        3. @Guilt Ridden – I think your logic may have an “excluded middle” fallacy. It doesn’t have to be either/or. Sometimes both sides are right. But, you might say, “they can’t *both* be right!” And, like Tevye, I would respond, “you know, you are also right.”

        4. The problem, Guilt Ridden, is with the abusive authority giving THEMSELVES the benefit of the doubt. Always. There is never any room in their minds for the possibility that they might be wrong and their underling(s) might be right. My mother used to tell us that even if she deliberately falsely accused us, the Bible said that she was right. Her quote was: “Last I checked, the Bible says that parents are ALWAYS right.”

      1. I think that is kin to bragging on your own cooking. The humility is overflowing and gosh, we heard so much scripture and parables of Jesus in this sermon. πŸ˜‰

      2. Yeah, Big Gary, that little comment at the end sounded like it puked out of his mouth with ease. I imagine (I won’t go searching for it) he uses that phrase regularly.

  2. Phil Kidd has always been a violent, angry mess. And Darrell’s right..he is mainstream. What makes so many fundamentalist evangelists angry? The angry ones are always yelling or picking on someone or making threats of violence. Frankly, it’s scary and you darn well know how they rule their homes…these bullies rule by intimidation and fear. Shame on these despicable, weak males.

    1. I think it was Pastor’s Wife who said that this group sees God as a mean tyrant.
      That’s how their parents (usually fathers) treated them, and that’s how they treat their children and spouses, and the cycle continues as long as they can convince themselves it’s good.

      1. I think this is very true. So much of what we believe and feel about god is influenced by our parents and our relationship with them. Little kids, to some extent, feel that the adults in their lives, especially their parents, are all-knowing and all-powerful; whether we realize it consciously or not, many of those same dynamics are transferred into our belief (or lack of) in a higher power. I never felt that my mother loved me. She was full of rage and unpredictable violence, as was the god she and our church taught and as an adult, I want nothing to do with her or god. It sounds like Phil Kidd had similar experiences with his father, but he has chosen to embrace and carry on that legacy of wrath and pain and inflict it on others around him. Very sad and it pains me to think of the children in his school.

        1. And/or earthly mother.
          But in a culture as insistently patriarchal as the IFB churches, the father may color your ideas of God more than the mother does.

        2. Sorry, Big Gary. Not sure if this response will fall under the right spot. I agree with you. My father passed away several years ago, and even though he was not a church goer, he so influenced my view of God–patient, forgiving to a fault, generous–I could go on and on. I never remember him striking me as a kid, although he might have spanked me. I know I frustrated him many times. Beating a child does not influence him or her for good–I think that it only serves to harden or break the heart.

        3. Tilly, my father also died about 7 years ago, and I know he shaped my view of God. And he was certainly nothing like this man (whom I’d never heard of until this video). My dad was kind and approachable, but somehow maintained authority over his kids. I may have been spanked, but I don’t remember it happening. He would sit and explain to us why things were right or wrong. I would never have done anything to dishonor him.

          But this guy. Can you even imagine being his child? Can you even think of crawling up in his lap to be comforted, or sharing a joke, or catching fireflies with him?

          I’d like to say “what a blowhard,” but I think he’s far worse than that. And he gives God and fatherhood a bad name.

        4. @Daylily, that was my thought, too. Imagine also, being a church member going to someone like this for counseling. Fear of a parent is horrible – fear of a preacher is nearly as bad. πŸ˜₯

    2. I was nervous about going to church on Father’s day recently. I was encouraged to hear the speaker explain that it isn’t that our earthly Father is a good example of what our God is like, but that God is the perfect example of a father relationship, and it really hurts when our earthly fathers let us down.

    3. Although it would present an excellent case if he were, I do not believe it is intellectually honest to say Phil Kidd is mainstream. I know too many fundies who consider him fringe…and they themselves are from all camps.

    1. Yes, despite the bragging tone, the words really have more the content of a traumatized confession on a psychiatrist’s couch. If the whole congregation were therapists, and Kidd were paying them by the hour, it would all be appropriate.

      1. Except…they’re paying him by the hour. Or half hour. Usually his sermons are 30 minutes long. Don’t ask me why I know this. Then I would have to tell you that,as a child, I sat through countless Phil Kidd sermons with graphic, traumatizing illustrations which haunted me for months.

        1. Terrible. I too heard many traumatizing illustrations from shock-jock preachers and evangelists. It’s awful and can scar you.

  3. Well, this is Phil Kidd, who is certainly on the lunatic fringe, but why the pastor would invite him… !?!?!

    I don’t believe his tales of stuff.

    Having said this, I have heard a lot of these kind of statements before. I do know that some things that the kids say to parents today neither my brothers & sisters nor I never would have considered saying to our parents.

    When I was in grade school, the principal would paddle kids. We just live in a different world now.

      1. one of the staples of Fundamentalism is the belief that the only way to make a kid into a Good Christian worthy of heaven is to beat the Hell out of them. πŸ™ 😑 πŸ˜₯

    1. Oh he’s telling the truth here. Phil Kidd is a flashback to my childhood abuse at a Roloff Home for Girls I was in. Kidd used to work for Roloff and used to take a group of girls on the road. Kidd used to preach to us girls if we weren’t raped yet, we needed to be raped to teach us submission.
      I wish I was making this up.

      Kidd always liked the little ones which I was. I was 13, but because of abuse, malnourished and other things I suffered, I looked 9 years old or 10 years old at the most.This is exactly the kind of stuff that I heard and was subjected to at that Roloff school day in and day out. Made me a bit nauseated to watch the video, but mostly I’m white hot angry this man was never prosecuted and his still PREACHING… πŸ‘Ώ

      1. I’m just stunned – how did he manage to avoid trouble with such a statement – that’s horrendous!!!! (“You need to be raped to learn submission”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
        I can hardly believe I read it.

      2. “Kidd used to preach to us girls if we weren’t raped yet, we needed to be raped to teach us submission.” 😯 😯 😯 πŸ˜₯ 😯

      3. Maybe since I began checking this site out I shouldn’t be as shocked, but after reading that quote about Phil Kidd saying women should be raped to learn submission, I’m still amazed he had the gall to actually say something that repulsive. 😯

        1. Having said that sort of moves him from “crackpot” land into “monster” territory, doesn’t it?

    2. Guilt Ridden, I grow a little weary of hearing how “kids these days” are so much worse than kids from other generations. I have started making it a point of asking older people I know what they were like as children. You might try it sometime. Profanity, disrespect, rebellion, immorality, disobedience, etc., at NOTHING NEW!!! It is perhaps (and that is a BIG perhaps) true that the culture at large used to have a more pro-authority stance, but people have always been people.

  4. “he’s the man he is today because…” his dad abused him. So he’s a spiritual abuser.

    “quit eating so much, fatso…” Ummm pot, meet kettle.

    I’m glad our God wants first time obedience, but is merciful and gracious enough that he doesn’t strike me dead when I take a while to obey. I’m glad my God loves me more than this preacher loves anyone.

  5. In a way, I feel sorry for him, he clearly went through some profound abuse as a kid. I just wish he could’ve gotten some help instead of turning on the next generation and continuing the abuse. Underneath all the screaming is a damaged person, carrying a lot of pain and resentment. πŸ™

    1. I think you’re right. He is dealing with it by saying, “It was good for me, I’m tough, I could handle it, bam look at me now!” but I don’t think he’s ever really faced it and processed what he went through as a child healthfully.

    2. You can hear it in his voice sometimes, when he’s sharing the stories. There’s a lot of pain there. Telling that even someone who clearly supports this level of child abuse was still profoundly damaged by it.

    3. you have a point. i have 2 siblings who still buy into the ‘i was raised like that and it’s fine’ mentality.

      i am *not* fine. but i’ve chosen to both speak, and break the cycle. i broke it when i married. i break it every day that i choose to not hurt, shame, or in any way harm the soul-heart-mind-body of my children.

      i break the cycle. because i am not fine, and it was not good.

  6. First of all, I think I am going to be sick…. Literally… This type of garbage is EXACTLY why I will NEVER be able to discipline my children in such a manner.

    Parents – Don’t believe your kids, further the abuse (both verbal and physical – got that fatso?), shame them repeatedly – only then will you have reached the pinnacle of parental perfection.

    Oh, and kids, when you are adults, praise them for beating you and further spread this toxic message and unhealthy Stockholm syndrome…. Because your parents and the MoG will pay you pay if you don’t….

    Gosh, this stuff pisses me off……

    1. Just in case anyone has read this far without watching the video, let me second that warning. There’s a lot of seriously abusive yelling packed into those six minutes. Beware.
      I thought I could handle it, but after watching it, I’m having trouble calming down again.

      1. Listening to Kidd felt like being smacked across the face repeatedly. If he’s a father, I can easily see him bringing a child to tears. I too had a bad reaction to it that I didn’t expect.

      2. Same here, B.G. I figured Darrell was over-reacting in his warning. I didn’t grow up abused, and I’m a bit fired up and need to calm down.

        Darrell and Gary are correct. If your background holds any abusiveness, do something else those six minutes.

        I’m also very disturbed that these people laughed about wishing someone was in Hell. I believe in a literal Hell, and can’t fathom wishing that on someone.

        1. Yeah, anyone who stands in a church and says they hope someone is in hell does not have a clue about grace and knows nothing about salvation or the Gospel of Christ. I will go so far as to say they do not know who Jesus is nor do they understand the Gospel. I do not believe a Christian who has any perception of what the Cross of Christ was actually all about could stand and wish anyone to hell.

          That alone disqualifies Phil Kidd as a minister of the Gospel of Christ and brands him a rather low down sorry excuse for a human being.

        2. i only watched enough to be certain i couldn’t watch any more. it is a trigger-fest. but it’s sometimes important to know what the demons out there are. that this is condoned, taught, defended with the bible is horrible

      3. every now and then Darrell posts something that reminds me of how terrible this whole life was. Most of the time, this site serves as just a light-hearted reminder. Not today. I feel the same way.

    1. “Dr.” Phil Kidd appears to spend most of his time on tour spreading this stuff around at as many Baptist churches as he can.

      I’ve linked to his web site below. Note how he loves being photographed with both fists raised. At the web site, you can buy “Dr. Kidd’s Comedy DVD with Bonus CD,” which is “Gut Busting” and “Tear Jerking,” according to himself (his capitalization, not mine). And don’t forget to sign up for his upcoming Marriage Conference, so your marriage can be more like his. 😯

      http://www.drphilkidd.com/index.htm

        1. I know next to nothing about “MMA,” but I’ve seen some Varsity-level boxing and wrestling, and this video looks to me like no kind of martial arts technique whatever is being employed, and no rules are being followed. Instead, it looks more like what my high-school’s wrestling coach used to call “grab-ass scuffling.”

        2. Martial arts (or rather, “martial arts”) seem pretty popular with fundy men, especially in ministry. Though I’ve never observed their style in person, the way it’s presented often seems like “I know how to hurt people” rather than good technique or a commitment to the sport/art. There’s a certain prestige in being feared, I guess.

      1. My first encounter with Phil Kidd was about 20 years ago. The local religious station was broadcasting a revival in town where he was preaching. He actually told people at his tent meeting that they should go burn down the house of the pastor of First Baptist Church because he was preaching blasphemy. I wished I had a recorder going so that I could send it to the local police.

  7. First, Kidd’s tone is grating and arrogant. Second, the cruelty and lack of empathy in his sermon is mind-blowing, and he probably learned it from the men who beat him as a child. I fear for any children he might have, or any children in that congregation.

  8. Just seconds into the video, he pretends he’s speaking to an errant young person. “I’ll tell you honey…”, then he slaps his hands to make a spanking sound.

    Why is his default illustration an obvious fantasy of spanking a young adolescent female?

    Just sayin’

    1. I thought his fantasy beating victim was probably a boy, and he was saying “Honey” to mock the boy’s alleged effeminacy.
      It’s equally appalling either way.

      In the South, people do say “Honey” to young boys as well as young girls, but when you say it in the tone of voice Kidd was using, it’s a term of aggression, not affection.

  9. The (obviously wrong) message aside, why do some preachers feel the need to yell? There’s so much anger. When I was in a church with an angry pastor like this, I’d either put up a wall and totally tune out or get angry right back. Yes, righteous anger has a place, but generally not so loud or long, and not on a topic such as this.

    What would happen if someone acted like this towards you in public? I’d probably run away in fear.

    I love my current church. Our pastor speaks in a normal tone when he’s addressing both serious and light topics.

    1. If a man showed half this much rage in public, someone would call the cops.
      Maybe it’s OK in church because everyone knows it’s just an act? No one expects him to literally attack people right there? Or maybe everyone’s just too polite to tell the preacher he must be off his meds?

  10. Interesting sermon.

    As the father of three boys, I can testify to the fact that when it comes to discipline one size definitely does not fit all. All three of my boys are different and all three of them require different disciplinary approaches.

    Learning who your children are, what motivates them, and how to modify their behavior takes time. It can be frustrating. And there will be lots of trial and error. Methods must be adjusted. Books need to be read. And children really need to be listened to to be understood.

    Are my sons respectful? Yes. Do they obey their parents, teachers and religious leaders? Yes. Do they have a secure sense of self worth? Yes. Was this easy to achieve? Hell no, and we have to work with them daily to keep them on the right track. Know what that’s called? It’s called parenting. It’s hard work and I love it.

    On the other hand, beatings require less thought, and they let the adults vent their anger. Plus, if your children are afraid of you then you can bully, and don’t have to spend the energy to actually parent. Thus, their popularity with people who would teach their parishioners to call their children “fatso,” rather than purchase and cook healthy meals.

    So, question: How much of his rant was based in truth, and how much was pure BS? I’m betting 75% BS. What says the peanut gallery?

    Peace,

    1. I think 75% is too low. Probably more like 90%.

      I believe he was spanked in school, but I don’t believe that the first swat made him numb. Nor do I believe that his father was like he made out. Grossly exaggerated.

      Society has changed; I was spanked as a child, but everyone was – it was kind of expected when you did wrong (at least in our house). I don’t think of it as abusive, and, in hindsight, I’m glad that my parents showed us that wrongdoing has negative consequences.

      1. GR, it’s because of comments like yours that I quit even trying to tell adults about the abuse going on in my childhood home.

        And comments like that infuriate me as an adult when I disclose details of my past abuse. Doubt and scoff all you wish, but you fucking weren’t there. Not in my home, & not in his. Don’t presume to know what goes on behind closed doors.

        1. I don’t know what went on, that is true, but years of hearing lurid stories by evangelists make me doubt that their stories are true.

          No one I knew at the school I attended was paddled so hard the first time that he lost feelings in his legs. Not at a public school. Sorry, I just don’t believe it.

          Could his father have been abusive? Perhaps.

          Sorry to be doubtful, but experiences that are that far outside of what I experienced and others have experienced are hard to take it.

        2. GuiltRidden, you said: “Sorry to be doubtful, but experiences that are that far outside of what I experienced and others have experienced are hard to take it.”

          Two things:

          1. That is exactly the reason the United States and other nations stood by and did nothing while the Holocaust was going on. It was so unfathomable that a modern country could be performing genetic experiments on Jews, gassing them, making lampshades out of their skin, etc., that people denied it happened. Until the war was over and allied armies actually saw the concentration camps.

          This kind of thinking is what enables child molesters to operate. They are banking on most people not believing the stories. In almost every case, a child molester has been told on many times before someone finally believes it and he is arrested.

          2. It is true that some victims of abuse become habitually liars. There’s a variety of reasons for this. Children will copy the behavior of their parents. Abused people will try to tell themselves it’s not as bad as it really is. Sometimes the events are so traumatic the mind becomes scrambled. There are a lot of abuse victims that I don’t trust to give me an accurate representation of any event that occurred. If they told me the sky was blue I’d have to look outside and check.

          But that behavior itself– habitual lying– is evidence of a profoundly disordered person, and something has made them disordered. Likely there really is a very, very bad backstory to their live. You might never hear the truth but you can bank on it being as bad or worse than anything you could think up on your own.

      2. In the public elementary school I attended both the principal and vice principal had three foot long paddles that they carried and used regularly. At least twice in seventh grade my teacher lined the entire classroom up to be spanked, and we all got paddled, whether we were guilty or innocent. I’m shocked that you doubt that he got regularly beaten given his age. It was considered pretty normal, where I grew up in NC.

        That said, what it instilled in me was this: blame me or punish me for something I didn’t do? I guarantee my perverse nature will have me go right out and do it. After all, I’ve already been punished, so why not? Unhealthy? Ohhhhh you betcha.

      1. Phil Kidd sure did abuse girls at the Roloff home.

        After that home was closed he went to work for Mack Ford and now says he’ll sue people for spilling the beans about his past.

        All I can say, is bring it on Philly boy. *I* remember you. So do scores of other girls, but you know what Philly were not little girls any more. We’re adults and we REMEMBER.

  11. This just makes me sad. Sad that he has never once understood what the love of God is really. The love of God is not beating a child till he is numb. The love of God is sacrificial, it is enduring pain and grief so that we might be redeemed. He does not understand that sin’s consequences have been paid for in full. He does not understand that God looks at that child that is “throwing plates, grumbling about doing the trash, and putting foot prints on the ceiling” and sees a child that has been redeemed by his own blood, clothed in righteousness.

    Christ’s statement in Matt 18:6 seems appropriate here: If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

    1. I know what you’re saying, but if my parents asked us to take out the trash, we NEVER would have smarted off with a disrespectful answer like “You want the trash taken out? – Do it yourself; I’m not your slave.”

      1. But when’s the last time you heard a kid say that, other than ones of parents who don’t parent at all? I mean, sure there are kids who talk to their parents like that in today’s world, but kids who had any discipline at all? I seriously doubt it.

        1. Good point. I’ve not experienced that with mine, either.

          I did have a couple of men I know from another church tell me a story that they claimed was true – that one day out “soul-winning”, they were in a household and talking to the father when the father asked the son, who was watching TV to take out the trash, and the boy supposedly talked back EXACTLY like that. At the time, I had no reason to doubt the story — but maybe it was just an evangelist story.

      2. I am no expert since my children have never shown any defiance like that-we haven’t reach the teen years yet, but if a child is yelling in defiance about emptying the trash there is something else going on. Maybe its hormones, maybe a fight with a friend, maybe tiredness, maybe hunger. I have days that I am ready to yell defiantly at my kids when they ask me to do something; doesn’t mean I deserve to be beaten does it?

        This blog states what I am trying to say so much better. http://motherofknights.com/2013/09/16/we-ditched-the-time-out-chair-for-a-mercy-seat/

  12. After reading my initial post, something else occurred to me that I failed to mention.

    How many times have I looked back on an incident with one of my children and realized that the primary problem was not caused by my kid being a bad kid, but was caused by a mistake that I was making? To be honest, fairly often.

    Younger child misbehaving in public? Is he hungry? Did I feed him too much sugar? Middle school child acting surly? Am I putting him to bed early enough? Teenager downright belligerent? Am I putting too much pressure on him to succeed?

    You see, parents aren’t perfect. And sometimes a problem with a child calls not so much for punishment as it does for an adjustment in our own approach to parenting. That’s one problem with the whole “beat them into submission” approach. If you never consider how you could be wrong then the underlying problem doesn’t get solved and round we go again.

    So, where was Kidd’s call parental self reflection?

    Peace,

    1. Yes, this exactly. Before I was a parent I read several parenting books that advocated harsh discipline techniques, they didn’t quite sit right with me, but I still used some of the principles with my children. It has been as I have left the fundamentalist mindset behind that I have realized how terrible those ideas and one that where preached in this sermon are.

      I quit spanking my kids and began actually paying attention to them. When I need my kids to do something, instead of expecting them to drop everything they are doing I let them finish what they are doing then they do what needs to be done. No attitudes, no yelling, no need to spank. I have learned that when my youngest is being grumpy it is not because he is being defiant it is because he is hungry and the way he expresses that hunger is with grumpiness. I have learned that being a good parent is treating my children as I want to be treated. Being a good parent is not beating them for every action I don’t like.

      1. I know that when my blood sugar drops, I become a cranky witch. Why couldn’t I see that my son behaved the exact same way?? Parenting requires a whole lot of SELF reflection, before you can help your children build a good, caring character. You don’t beat it into them. Don’t believe me? Watch that video. “Just because you are a character doesn’t mean you have character.”

  13. And now, class, time to take the “Did It Really Happen Quiz”
    1. Woman giving a timeout to a child pulling dolls out of boxes.
    2. He actually sat under the teachings of an [idiotic, woman] ‘librul’ professor.
    3. The brother happened to be home to sadistically tell the principal to double the ‘licks’.
    4. He turned out ok.

    1. If he actually got a graduate degree in psychology (or even undergrad) it is quite possible- likely even- that he had a professor at one point who was liberal and female. (‘Idiotic’ is generally not how one gets a position as a professor.)

      Thing is, he apparently learned nothing from her.

      1. I don’t doubt that he may have had a psych prof. With whom he disagreed, but his apocryphal cheeky response to that prof. Is all in his fantasy life. The French have a phrase; “esprit de le escalier”. Literally, it means “the wit of the stairway”, and it refers to those snappy retorts that we *wish* we had thought of at the time.

        He goes one step further, and actually credits himself with saying them. It’s got to be delusion – his rants are loaded with these biting rejoinders from his past. Nobody talks to people like that on a regular basis in real life.

        But, then again, I could be wrong… He’s such an ass. πŸ’‘

      2. Notice too the automatic labeling of the professor as “humanistic” and “liberal.” (And, ergo, an idiot.) SFL: assuming that ALL academics are humanistic, liberal hippies. (Now, the simple fact that basically ALL academics are more “liberal” than your average fundy proves nothing. That would be like if Bernie Sanders said that everyone in the U.S. Senate was a hyper-conservative fascist, just because basically every U.S. Senator is not as liberal as he is.)

      3. Hate to stereotype but psychology is one of those fields of study that attracts really twisted people. A lot of sick people study psychology in college.

        Studying psychology or even going to a psychologist doesn’t make a person normal or well-adapted any more than going to Bible college makes someone godly.

        If you’re studying the human soul– either in a religious environment or a secular one– but don’t live an examined life, then it just reinforces your own sickness.

    2. 1. Possibly
      2. Doubtful
      3. No way. How old was the brother (he did say he stayed home from school, right) that the principal mistook him for the dad?
      4. Yes. I am going under the assumption that the definition of “ok” is arrogant, beligerent, loud-mouthed, bully and ignorant of Jesus.

      1. If he were in Canada I would report him to the Children’s Aid Society tonight and use this video as evidence. They would be on him like white on rice. And rightly so.

        1. Canada doesn’t have anything like our First Amendment. For example, Canada has laws against “hate speech.”

          I mostly think the First Amendment is a very good principle to have in our Constitution. Maybe the best thing in the whole Constitution. But, like many other legal protections, it can protect scoundrels as well as conscientious people.

        2. I don’t want this to become political but any law that allows people to promote child abuse needs to be nuanced imo. No one should have the right to incite abuse. It is a challenging issue to be sure. But free speech should not include hateful speech that incites violence against children.

          Again, I know this gets political. It’s just that his words so anger me and the thought that he is protected in speaking them is heart breaking for the children that will be (severely) beaten in compliance with his abusive teaching. How do we protect them??

        3. Squashing the first amendment is a horrible idea. I would rather put up with hate speech than to have to one day have my speech redefined as “hate speech” just because the majority doesn’t like it.

          This is still America thankfully. We have the option to not listen to Kidd.

        4. As an American, I would respond that such restrictions of free speech would probably result in Kidd and his ilk taking this kind of hatred “underground”. I would rather his foolishness be public, so thinking people can be aware. As a man who cares deeply about people and children, though, I tend to agree with you.

  14. What a pitifully small god he preaches when he breaks away from his social engineering tirade around the 2:15 mark.
    I’m sorry but if the creation’s will is greater than the Spirit of God then such a god does not deserve to be worshiped or listened to.

    It is a sin that men like this have been allowed int he pulpits of so called churches in America. May God have mercy on us for what we call church these days.

    I won’t even comment on the preachertainment crap that makes up the rest of the video.

    1. “Preachertainment crap” …Thanks Don; I *knew* there was a word or phrase to describe what I heard. Definitely not a “sermon” or “good preaching, amen?” He is certainly aware that he is performing. I have some experience in entertainment, and this guy’s a bad actor.

      1. *He* thinks he’s a brilliant stand-up comedian.
        No Kidding (double pun intended).

        You can buy his “Gut Busting” and “Tear Jerking” (his description) comedy DVDs, “Real Men Are Deer Hunters” ($30) and “Who Needs Kids Anyhow?” ($20) here:

        http://www.drphilkidd.com/kidds-cart/dvd.html

        Don’t delay! Order now and get a bonus CD!

        Here, he gives a free sample of “Who Needs Kids Anyhow?”
        (Warning: It’s about as funny as his talk on child discipline, and as upsetting.):

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyTouTRzXO4

        1. Aye Carumba! Not only a bad actor, but a disturbed hack ‘comic’ as well. What was that? Open mike night at the psychopath club? Too sooooon!! And for his brand of misogynistic, childish ‘observation humor’, it will always be Too Soon.

          May he have his own personal plague, and may he grow like the potato, with his head underground. “Ohmain? oi!”

        2. There are two ways to describe this little show:

          A delightful treat for participants in “Dr.” Phil Kidd’s marriage seminar (how Phil kid describes it).

          Open Mike Night at the psychopath club (how the rest of the world describes it).

  15. I was spanked as a child. I was spanked quite a lot, as I had a “strong will” and my parents wanted to break that will. For a long, long time, I thought that was a valid train of thought. Now that I have a wonderful little girl, I can’t even fathom doing to her what was done to me. There are parts of every day that she’s a challenge, behavior-wise. But imagining spanking her so long that her will is broken? The thought breaks my heart. I praise God for letting me break that chain of thinking, even as I make plenty of my own mistakes as a parent.

  16. “Amen- good preaching???”
    No!
    Sorry excuse for preaching!

    My daughter listened and askd me what that was all about I told here it was some idiot preaching?
    She told me, “that wasn’t preaching that was some guy shouting stories about himself.”

    My 10 year old daughter has more wisdom than an entire congregation who sat and listened to that crap.

    1. The thing is, I think it IS naturally obvious to both children and adults that β€œthat wasn’t preaching that was some guy shouting stories about himself.” Imagine the amount of conditioning required to make people accept that shouting as legitimate discourse on matters of faith.

      1. Unfortunately I used to be one of those. I was never in the Phil Kidd camp but I have listened to some wackos in my time and Hay-men’d them and shouted the roof down as well. I’ve encouraged some sorry excuses for preaching over the years… then bellied up to the Altar for another round of Kool-aid.

  17. Did he say “fatso”? Does he own a mirror?
    I feel so bad for all the children in the congregation – all the fathers who are yes-men probably went home and waited for the smallest opportunity to beat those kids using all their strength.

  18. ** I typed an essay response for this post… but I’ve decided against posting it. CTRL-A / Delete

    But I’ll just say this: “Phil, you hate God” and it breaks my heart that anyone listens to your venomous lies.

    1. I guess I should count myself fortunate that I’ve never been in a church where he was a guest.

      Isn’t this they guy who, on his “comedy” stuff, claimed that babies looked like rats and implied that his wife had been unfaithful with a rat? I thought it was terrible. Pretty sure it’s the same guy.

  19. So, something I realized just now as I was watching this. It amazes me what is called “preaching” in some churches. Like, when my pastor preaches he opens the Bible to the book that he’s preaching through, reads the texts, exegetes the text, then gives application. This guy is just screaming. I’d rather learn the Bible than hear a bunch of angry stories from a man whose opinion I don’t care about.

  20. Dear SFL Reader:

    I’d listen to and comment on this were I not rising early for a 10 hour trip. I’d like to get some sleep tonight, so I’m forgoing the ritualized masochism that I’m guessing listening would involve. See you sometime next week.

    Blessings!

    Christian Socialist

    1. I can’t vouch for the complete accuracy of this article:

      http://chucklestravels.com/tag/matthew-jarrell/

      … but it states (about 1/3 of the way down the page) that Phil Kidd “was a close friend of the serial rapist Matthew Jarrell” (Jarrell being the Baptist pastor who hanged himself in jail while awaiting trial on multiple rape charges), and that “Phil Kidd said in a sermon he was preaching that some women needed to be raped to learn submission.”

      Yet, as Darrell said, Phil Kidd is not on the fringes of the IFB. He is a featured speaker in many, many Baptist pulpits across the land.

      1. Phil Kidd most certainly is racist and proud of it. He wears a confederate tie to PREACH in Anderson, SC. I *saw* it.

        He used language in his “sermon” that would make a drunken sailor blush.
        He most certainly did say women need to be raped to learn submission.
        He’s done all this and more, and then whines he needs body guards to keep him from getting his a$$ kicked.

        Phil revels in being divisive.

        Wouldn’t walk across the street to hear him. In fact, I’d walk across the county not to hear him.
        __________________

        1. BODYGUARDS?
          That’s kind of hilarious, not only because he runs “Dr. Kidd’s MMA Training Camp,” but because he loves to rant about what a rough, tough guy he is, ready to smack down anybody who looks at him crossways, and how any men who have problems just need to man up and be as tough (and violent) as him, and any woman who has problems just doesn’t have a “real man” for a husband, and any disobedient children just aren’t getting whipped enough.
          I mean, when you go to his web site, the first thing you see is a photo of the dude with both fists raised, seemingly to invite the world to a brass-knuckled boxing match.

          So, when all is said and done, Mr. Tough Guy has someone else do his punching for him?

      2. It would be interesting to see a list of all the churches who had him speak during, say, the last three years. Let’s see how “on the fringes” he really is. ❓

        1. I don’t know the details about each church on the list, either, but he does seem to have a lot of speaking gigs in multiple states.

    2. I’m fairly certain the “shut up” article is a parody. Surely no actual adult in the 21st century could take that seriously. Me thinks you’ve been punked.

      Peace,

      1. Poe’s law: you might think so, but it also could be a direct quote. Really no way of knowing. Parodies of fundamentalism are indistinguishable from its reality

      2. Methinks you don’t understand the level of craziness in fundyland. That is real and after watching this video it should be obvious that this guy is capable of saying/writing anything, no matter how warped or absurd.

        Just re-read that article but this time yell it. Bam – you just preached a Phil Kidd sermon. πŸ˜‰

        1. Exactly. Nothing in that written piece is different from what Kidd says when he preaches … excuse me, I mean when he’s “shouting stories about himself.”

      3. I’ve heard the man “preach” — 15 years ago, he was the darlin’ of the tent meetin’ crowd, and my family would drive hours to Homosassa Springs FL for this (and other) kooks. When you don’t have a TV, you have to find your fun somewhere.

        What I find fascinating (and telling) is that Kidd’s rewritten his personal history and early life to pretend he’s not from Cleveland, Ohio. His embrace of the Confederate flag and all that is part of his clever, clever marketing.

        Anyway, yes, that “SHUT UP lady” piece fits entirely within his style and thought processes.

  21. This man spoke for over 5 minutes and something key was missing: any mention of God’s wonderful grace. The apostle Paul discussed man’s sinful condition but he always mentioned “God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,” (Eph 2:4).

    The kind of preaching we see in this video is void of grace. It is dry and moralistic and does not point the child nor his parents to Jesus Christ.

    It got more laughs than some beginning comedians but failed to deal with the only topic worth dealing with: God’s amazing grace.

    1. Depends on what you mean by “grace.” Bill Gothard, for instance, defines grace as “the desire and power that God gives me to do His will.” It’s all about submission and authority and nothing about God’s love, mercy, and forgiveness.

  22. Such a show he puts on, strutting and ranting. Look at me, listen to me, do like me. Made in the image of God but spewing evil. When thinking of the people sitting in these churches eating this up and taking it home, I loathe their weakness. So much time has passed but such abuse of pastor and parent leaves scars. Thankfully my daughters have intact wills, confidence, and questioning minds. Love not fear has brought us joy. Mind you not perfection lol

    1. “Strutting and ranting” – that’s pride and anger, two sins that Biblically should disqualify him from the pastorate (or being an evangelist).

      How can anyone read their Bible and then sit and listen to this man? Here’s what the Bible says about a man of God: “And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves.” (2 Tim. 2:24-25)

      This is something I despise about the IFB: they ignore the Scriptures, setting up their rules instead, and say they are following the Bible more accurately than anyone else, but THE MEN THEY CHOOSE TO LISTEN TO PROVE THAT THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT OBEYING THE BIBLE.

  23. I grew up under a father who was physically, verbally, and spiritually abusive. All of this is all too familiar. I have three siblings, and not one of us is on speaking terms with our dad. I was the last one to cut him off- I’m the dutiful oldest child, and it was very hard for me. But I was well into my *40s* when I realized that I had a right not not be abused anymore.

    Yes, I have scars. Those scars have caused a great deal of issues in all areas of my life. I did everything I could to not treat my own children with such hatefulness, and I pray that I succeeded there.

    My dad was a monster. And so is Phil Kidd.

    1. Interesting that all your siblings eventually turned away but it took some time. I am the oldest of my siblings (I am 29) and I get frustrated sometimes that I am the ONLY one that has rejected my mother’s abuse and hate. But, perhaps, I need to be more patient and realize that there will be others who will see the light eventually and reject the cycle of abuse.

      1. I’m interested in the stories of young people who have left the infamous Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, KS.
        As most readers know, the church consists almost entirely of one large extended family– Fred Phelps, his children, grandchildren, and their spouses. So leaving this church means leaving one’s entire family, since church members are forbidden to have contact with apostates.

        Westboro Baptist Church is not the IFB, but in many ways, it is just a more extreme (or more consistent) version of most of the same beliefs and practices that IFB preachers advocate.

        I think this BBC report, “America’s Most Hated Family In Crisis,” is quite good.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ticxD0GfewA
        (This is the first of four parts. The other three parts are also on YouTube.)
        Louis Theroux finished this documentary in 2011. Since then, more young members have left Westboro Baptist and, practically speaking, the Phelps family.

      2. I didn’t grow up in a house with much of anything you would call abuse. Some mostly normal family dysfunction (at least compared to others here). I’ve often in the past found it infuriating that my younger brother (now 36) despite being just as aware growing up of some of the ridiculousness we did endure, chooses to pretend most of it never happened. I’ve gotten past it, and just learned not to expect what people aren’t capable of, but I can’t say that I understand how adults would rather live with pretenses than just come to grips with reality.

      3. All of my siblings have recognised that my dad was abusive and treated all of us and my mother wrongly, but I am the only one who has left fundamentalism, although most of them are in a more moderate stripe of it than we were growing up. But it does grieve me sometimes that they haven’t recognised the spiritual abusiveness of that environment as well as the more obvious verbal and emotional abuse. I am the oldest at 30, so maybe they will come around eventually, but for now I still feel like a stranger in a strange land inside my own family. It is, at least, a familiar feeling; I’ve had it all my life.

  24. My parents were charter members of Central Baptist when I was five. It was your typical fundy church, and my parents were typical fundy parents, not withholding that damn rod of correction, but even they could not stomach Bob Buchanan when he swaggered in from Texas in the mid-seventies.

    I had married and moved away, but did sit in on a couple sermons. Buchanan was a total nutcase, and I can only imagine that the decades have calcified his insanity. Keith Gomez sat under his preaching, by the way.

  25. What a big man, he want adults to beat up on little kidz. What a tough tough man. I read the Bible, he said plenty that is no where in the Bible and btw, spare the rod spoil the child does not mean kids cannot or should not be spoiled. Little kids did not ask to be here, they should be spoiled plenty or you miss out on great family time. Liutgard, I was the oldest too and I hear you on that, stay strong.

  26. Saint Peter: “sniff…snifff….Whew, what’s that awful smell?”

    Apostle Paul:”Oh! I’ve not smelled anything like that since I was in prison!”

    Moses: “Oy Vey! All the Plagues together did not smell THAT bad!”

    Jeremiah:”I have smelled that before… They threw me in there until our enemies rescued me.”

    Archangel Michael: “Sorry everyone, sorry… I should have shut down the outside ventilation when I saw that Phil Kidd character was going to “preeeech.”

    Jesus:*facepalm* “Kidd! Again! Don’t worry folks, I’m gonna take care of this.”

  27. Sadly, many people misinterpret “spare the rod, spoil the child” as a justification for abusing kids. Psalm 23 tells us “thy rod and they staff, they comfort me”. Has anyone heard of a shepherd beating a lamb? Correction (the rod) is not meant to be physically violent, but directing.

    The pastoral epistles state specifically a bishop (pastor) is not to be a “striker” (i.e., not violent). This dude has a disorder called “nuckin’ futs”, and should not be leading anyone.

  28. I never had the “pleasure” of seeing Kidd in person. But I have heard very similiar messages from other evangelists and pastors. Just not with all the yelling, hate and histrionics. The message was the same…..to the parents – beat your kids because you are authority. Kids – you’re getting beat because your parents have the authority. Case closed.

    1. I agree that this theme (sever physical punishment) permeates IFB churches…if you want proof, just read IFB Pope Jack Hyles’ “How to Rear Infants” and “How to Rear Children”.

      I believe that this is symptomatic of how IFB MOGs take a scriptural principle and take it to an extreme so it becomes worse than the alternative.

      As a father of two young boys (6 & 8) I can tell you that if you need to threaten and/or abuse your sons to get them to behave, then you are lousy authority figure. I am NOT advocating permissiveness…quite the opposite. The best leaders that I have ever known didn’t need to threaten/abuse their followers/subordinates…they lead by example and everyone fell in line because they did not want to disappoint them. (The implied authority to punish was understood, but that was a last resort…not the primary methodology.)

      Guys like Phil Kidd take the Machiavellian principle of “it’s better to be feared than loved” to heretofore unknown levels…which is the polar opposite of what Christ taught.

      1. Exactly. Good parents, and good authorities in any sector, don’t have to make threats to lead. They use reinforcement and encouragement, not punishment. And when punishment is called for as an absolute last resort, they use nonviolent forms of correction.

    1. Both are absolutely hateful men. I mean, they are full of hate towards others, not just that they are easy to feel hatred towards. Phil Kidd is obviously teaching hatred for children. I know Sam Gipp teaches parents to abandon their kids – if your kid isn’t in creche, and they make a fuss and distract someone in a sermon, that person could go to hell and it’ll be YOUR fault! Sam Gipp brainwashes people to follow the pastor like the fanciful lemmings (I know the whole lemmings follow each other off a cliff thing was staged but that’s what IFBs do). He’s also very hateful towards anyone who disagrees with him.

      I’m not sure why anyone who has any knowledge of the bible would allow either of them to preach. I guess that’s why they stick to the IFB circuit.

  29. Thank you Darrell. Most of the time this blog is pretty light-hearted and not too much strain on my brain. Today’s post jolted me back to reality. Fundy world is truly a scary place. It’s wrong in every way. I feel physically ill after watching the video. The whole child discipline idea is the straw that broke the camel’s back in our case. Our daughter was a pre-school in a fundy school. They couldn’t get her to wash her hands after recess, so they called me and had me come pick her up. They also sent a note home saying that if we don’t “break her soon” she will end up in Juvie by the time she was 10. She was only 3 at the time…..I’m so glad we left while our kids were infants. They will never know this kind of upbringing. Ever.

    1. Are you kidding me?? If every three year old ended up in juvie because they disobeyed at some point or another, I think that would include, let me see…..EVERYONE!!

      1. My transgressions three years of age(i.e. stayed up past bedtime, lied about eating my vegetables, wasn’t potty-trained fast enough, etc) a fundy MOG would have merited being tried as an adult and a subsequent life sentence!

        1. Pardon me while a kick George out from behind my keyboard. My last post should have read “My transgressions at three years of age (i.e. stayed up after bedtime, lied about eating my vegetables, wasn’t potty-trained fast enough, etc.) would have merited being tried as an adult and subsequent life sentence!

          George is now back in controllllllllllll

      2. My sister was 3 *WEEKS* old when she got her first spanking, because she was crying ‘rebelliously’.

        I can’t tell you how many times I hid myself in the back of my closet, often with a sibling tucked under my arm. Once, when Dad was after my Mom about something, I thought about putting the sibs in the car and going for help, but A) the keys were in Dad’s pants’ pocket, and B) I didn’t know how to drive a stick shift anyway.

        I never did manage to get help. Anyone I tried to talk to blew me off. My sister only got help because she kept running away.

        I have to go now. I’m shaking all over- it’s really hard to talk about this stuff; and I have a four-hour drive to make and I should have left an hour ago but I overslept so here I am, sitting in my robe…

        1. You are someone who can understand others hurts. I spent many nights crouched in the closet hiding from my mother, the god fearing woman, teacher at my church christian school. There is a sad comfort in knowing one is not alone in their memories. Who else truly understands such horrible craziness? It is with me always even entering my 40s. However picking up my 2nd year university daughter tomorrow for a laundry run because she’s homesick. WIN!!! We can be different, our closets filled with winter clothes or games, not scared children.

  30. Phil Kidd is strange. I went to a church where he was a frequent guest preacher for a while, know one of his sons, and have spoken to his daughter several times.

    I do think he exaggerates his background and makes up or adds to most of his stories, but I also think he did o through some bad and probably abusive things. When he’s not performing for a crowd and promoting himself, he’s more down to to earth but you can also tell he’s carrying around a lot of pain. I just hate that he is causing even more instead of dealing with his own issues.

    His kids are all grown now but the one I know really looks up to his dad. They’ve gone their separate ways, especially in terms of how a church and ministry should be, but you can tell he loves his father and doesn’t resent him or his upbringing, and his father is proud of him even though he didn’t stick to the fundy mold.

    The one thing that has made Phil Kidd almost tolerable to me is seeing how he does really love his children and grandchildren, but I find that to hard to reconcile with sermons like this. It just seems so different from the man I met and how his face lights up around his family. I sometimes wonder which Phil Kidd is the real one – the persona he puts on when preaching or the way he acts when he’s not in the public eye, but it scares me to think that the loving father/grandfather part could be an act.

    1. I actually understand what you mean because my own fundy pastor I grew up with was like this. He was a raging extremist in the pulpit and as mild as a lamb most of the rest of the time. His kids, now adults, have said that the only thing they resent from their childhood was that they felt he was so committed to his “ministry” that he neglected them. Yet he preached all of the usual fundy abusive teachings that allowed my parents to justify their own evil actions at home.

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