Silence (Giving Consent)

"Loose lips might sink ships" - NARA - 513543

I have a message for you all from the First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana and their associated staff, members, fans, toadies, lackeys, and hangers-on: they would like for all of you to shut up now. Stop talking about Jack Schaap’s sin. Stop feeling sympathy for his victim. Stop recalling the sins of Jack and David Hyles. Stop bringing up all the many others just like them that have walked the halls of that church and school. Cease and desist. Just shut up.

You’re hurting the cause of Christ by letting the world know that (yet another!) fundamentalist pastor is a hypocrite. You’re hurting all the church members who sat and watched his shenanigans in silence and didn’t move to stop him. You’re vindictively hurting a good man who only made one little mistake and who has probably already suffered enough and should be back in another pulpit any time now.

Besides all that, you can’t possibly know the whole story. This seventeen-year old was just as guilty as the pastor who preyed on her. I heard from a very reliable source that he read on the Internet that she was a seductress trained by the Communists at the Vatican to ensnare fundamentalists preachers. And I like that story a lot better than the one you’re telling so it must be true. If there’s any victim here is that man of God who has lost his ministry. He’s all that matters, not some little tramp.

Is Schaap’s offense really all that great? He slightly stumbled. He merely tripped. He slipped a little, lost his balance and inadvertently penetrated a seventeen-year-old. It could happen to anybody. There’s no reason for all this fuss. After all, we can all agree that he’s still a wonderful man with a powerful ministry. Who cares what happens to one floozy? Is she more important than all the souls we’re trying to save?

All you have to do is be quiet. Sit silent. Do nothing.

Silence gives consent.

350 thoughts on “Silence (Giving Consent)”

  1. Maybe every situation isn’t like mine; but I tend to think they could be similar. In the religious circle, the men are the winners in these types of situations and they know they will be – that is abuse of power and young sheltered, christian girls don’t know how to handle these men.

    1. Dearly beloved child of God, who matters far, far more than she ever knew …

      To say that my heart goes out to you is no lie; but the enormity of evil inflicted against you staggers the mind. Nothing qualifies me to be your councilor. This man’s crime violated both you and creation itself. On that day, good and right stood silent as part of God’s world died.

      That you are still in church is a marvel. And even if you do not feel it, even if you were/are vexed in spirit every day, you are a strong, strong woman. And you do matter.

      How is it that so many confessing Christians [more ‘confessing’ than Christian?] consistently hide the guilt and silence the victim sacrificed to the profligacy of malignant and malevolent narcissists? That such monsters receive sanctuary is beyond my mortal comprehension. And the cowardice of those eyes deliberately blind seems like the sacrifice of daughters to the fire of Moloch.

      And live in silence? How are you to find any healing if you do not talk?

      You are 100% correct that girls in such situations need support. I can’t tell you what to do [you’ve had too much of that already], but it is my thinking that women who have found healing and strength can have a powerful role in breaking this culture of abuse.

      I think that such women [and sometimes boys and men] are needed to lead the charge. Their experience gives them a unique interest in these matters. But it behooves the rest of us to rally around them and join our voices to their voices. I think that it befalls all of us to create clear, loud voice that cannot but be heard by all in the fundamentalist movement.

      To put the matter differently, just as YOUR choice to enter marriage untouched was ripped from you, it is time that pedophiles saw THEIR choice and the power of silence ripped from them.

      At the same time, it is necessary to create a universal awareness that there are people who WILL listen, and who WILL take seriously these crimes of abuse, that NO girl or young person is alone, and that NO ONE has the right to SILENCE her story.

      This message must go out over and over and over and over and over, ‘you can’t do that, you can’t do that, you can’t do that, you can’t do that.’ Moreover, we must be prepared to create such circumstances as make it impossible for the accessory crime of silence to prevail against the safety, abuse and molestation of girls and all youth.

      Christian Socialist

  2. Please don’t think I’m placing a holier than thou on all of us girls. But this man opened my eyes to a whole new world involving men and sex and filth. When I was well on my way to staying pure until my marriage by my choice; but because of this man, that choice was taken.

  3. Oh yeah, I left out that the principal told me I was his 12th girl he had seduced in his life and he was 34 at the time, married with 2 kids.

  4. A part of me wants to get all the girls who have been in these situations together and see if we can teach girls how to oppose these men and help them understand their rights in these situations. If the girls were knowledgeable and used their legal power to prosecute – maybe this wouldn’t be such a prominent monstrocity among religious organizations. Sadly, just telling someone doesn’t seem to be the answer – I know now what I should have done; but it’s too late now and it enrages me when I see it continually happening and the girls are made to be quiet and never speak.

    1. That enrages me too. I’m 47, btw, and like you, I attend a Baptist church. And you are so right; it’s an abuse of power. Men like this are not men of God, and they convince the girls to think that it’s their own fault, that they caused the man of God to fall. So of course the girls stay silent – they are ashamed. Or, if perchance they realize that it wasn’t their fault, they stay silent because they don’t think they would be believed. So the fake man of God keeps getting away with it. :cry:

      1. Very true Beth. To this day, I am pretty sure this man thinks he never “fell.” I definitely felt more ashamed than he ever did. Mostly I just kept trying to figure out how and why this could happen to me. I look back now and see no real purpose in the whole thing – I don’t feel God was or is punishing me or trying to teach me something from it. It’s certainly not something I’ve been able to use to help someone or further the gospel with. The senselessness of the whole thing is truly mind numbing.

        1. Actually, you can use it to help further the Gospel. I don’t know about you, but one of the biggest things I had to overcome was the thought that that this faker was a man of God, and one of the biggest thing was to realize what’s the Truth of Christ and what’s error. And then I realized there were others who were abused by authoritarian pastors – not in the same way, but abused anyway. And I have been able to help a few realize that an authoritarian, abusive pastor is not God, and he doesn’t speak for God, either.
          What that man did to you was senseless, don’t get me wrong. But you still can reach into the darkness you came out of, whether it’s to one sexually abused, financially abused, emotionally abused, spiritually abused, or just plain run over in the name of Christ, and show them that isn’t what Christ is all about. Unfortunately, I have found that people who have never been abused in the name of Christ usually don’t understand how to reach into that darkness.

  5. I think what happened was wrong and I feel sorry for you, but at the same time, I am wondering were you raped? Were you forced? You speak about staying pure and it was “taken”. My mom and dad has always taught me to be accountable for MY actions. Yes, he is defintitely to be held accountable for his, especially since he was a Pastor, he knows better and it is an abuse of power, and you may have been “confused”, but you are old enough to know when to run and get help or play around with the idea a little bit. As a teenager, if i am to try a drug or say something I shouldn’t, it wasn’t because I am the victim, I made that choice not to say no. I think it was wrong of him, but I don’t believe you are as big of a victim as you make it seem, unless you were raped.

    1. It is uncommon for girls who were victimized under age to continue tone victims after they are older or become adults. Cindy girls are very sheltered and much more naive about sex even in thier mid teens. They are very easy to take advantage of. Unless one grew up in this world, they can’t truly understand that.

    2. Why?

      Fundy children are often very sheltered and innocent. They may know that fornication is wrong, but they might not know what it is.

      They also may not know how to say “no” since 1) they’re not usually in situations where they have to deal with temptations (their parents try to keep them from the world) and 2) they’re never given opportunities to actually say “no.” Ever. Complete compliance and obedience is often trained into them. Respect and admiration for those in authority, especially the pastor, is a given.

      People don’t become strong by just being TOLD what to be strong. You have to practice, and since fundy kids often never have the chance to decide anything for themselves, they’re unprepared to face evil, much less defy it, especially when evil is disguised as holy.

      Yes, the Gospel empowers us, but sadly what is taught in many fundy churches is not actually the Gospel, but legalistic moralism.

    3. How she reacted does not matter in the slightest. A PREDATOR is ALWAYS to blame for being a predator. Even if his victim was “promiscuous” or even if she/he “had fun”. If someone gets stabbed to death in an alley, is the murderer any less of a murderer if the victim didn’t run after the first blow? Is the victim somehow not a victim if he/she had been stabbed a year ago and was aware that knives can cut skin? The poster “It never mattered” said “no” to her attacker. But even if she had said nothing, it still wouldn’t make her less of a victim or her principal less of a predator. It is not her fault, it was never her fault, and no response she did or didn’t have could have made it her fault.

      To “It never mattered,” I hope you know that you are loved and valued deeply, and you can talk about it as much or as little or for as long as you want. As an abuse survivor, I know how important it is that your experience is your experience, that it really happened, that what happened was wrong, and that no one has the right to tell you to keep quiet. Be well.

    4. when this happens to your daughter whom you have perfectly warned and taught and is perfectly dressed then you will understand

    5. Many of us do tell and my worst fear was confirmed when I finally got enough courage to say something…thus the name…It never mattered…really no one cares and that is why a lot of girls don’t say anything

      1. Even if every man, woman, and child did not care, God cares. The people who did this to you will stand before God one day to answer “Why did you defile her?” and “You found out how he was defiling her and you kept silent thereby supporting him and condemning her, why? “There is a verse in the Holy Bible (unfortunately, I do not remember where in the Old Testament it is)that says “No man careth for my soul.”, which is very true. BUT while humans could careless if any of us live or die, God-Jesus Christ-Holy Spirit cares very very very deeply for you. DON’T EVER FORGET THAT!!!

  6. Slightly stumbled? Your statement is so repulsive. He GREATLY stumbled…and Yes God does grant U turns. But please do me and everyone else a favor…dont try to sugar coat it. His sins were sure to find him out.

  7. i am a young teenage girl just like the girl. I grew up in a Baptist church, and yes, i have been sheltered from all the filth this world have to offer. i know the difference between good and bad, right and wrong.
    I have a dad and i have brothers so i know how men think that’s why i dress as a Christian young lady so i won’t have to worry about leading somebody on because my clothes is too tight, or my skirt is too short.
    I do not ride in a car with any member of the opposite gender who is not my dad or a really close family member.
    I have been to my preacher’s office several times for counseling, and we always leave the door open. I know how to act around my preacher and member of the opposite gender. If my preacher ever decide to make a move on me, i know that i would run out and let somebody know. This girl was not raped. She could have prevented this whole thing in the way she dress. I know this young lady very well, and i am sorry that this happen, but she’s as much guilty as Bro. Schaap.
    Just because we get shelter from all the filth the world is offering doesn’t mean that we are stupid or dumb. This young lady was not force into anything. She really didn’t think about how much she was hurting her family. Both of them made a huge mistake. If she was rape, then i will totally understand, but she wasn’t.

    1. Only God knows what this girl was thinking. A decent, Christian man would turn away and leave if he found himself in a comprimising position. I don’t care if this girl stripped naked in front of him (and I am not suggesting she did). His job as an adult was to be an adult. If you think that a short skirt or a bathing suit so arrouses a man that he cannot stop himself from having sex, especially with a girl young enough to be his granddaughter, then the men you are around must be perverts. I know many decent, unsaved men who would never take advantage of a girl or woman even if there was provocation. As a woman who has spent all of her adult life in full-time Christian service in a fundamental church I can only say you need to stop judging others. Pride is a dangerous thing, and you appear very pridful. Maybe you should be praying for this girl you “know very well.” I know this girl too. I now she has a reputation. Shouldn’t she still be supported. Did she force him to have sex with her or did he take advantage of a girl that had already made a mistake? I am thankful that God is more merciful that you seem to be.

    2. Young lady, she is a teen and he is an authority figure. At his age, he should be much more in control of his actions and desires than a teenager. One day, you will realize that.

    3. “I have a dad and i have brothers so i know how men think that’s why i dress as a Christian young lady so i won’t have to worry about leading somebody on because my clothes is too tight, or my skirt is too short.
      I do not ride in a car with any member of the opposite gender who is not my dad or a really close family member.”

      Where do you live? Saudia Arabia? That aside, consider that short of the girl tying Jack to a bed and stripping him down and forcing him to be aroused, IT WAS NOT HER FAULT. IT WAS HIS.
      Men are not ravenous beast waiting to rape the first woman that walks near to them. If this is what you believe, you need to check the contents of your kool-aid.

      Joseph could have gone along with photpher’s wife, she was the boss lady, but he didn’t.

      I don’t care what reputation this girl had. I don’t care if she wore a mini-skirt. Jack is an adult. He should act like one.

      1. wow, are you the grammar police or something? You all can go ahead and say whatever you want to, but we can’t change the fact that both of them are guilty. Both of them did something really wrong. Jack Schaap is not innocent, and this girl is definitely not innocent either. You all don’t know all don’t even know all the facts. All you know is what the news is saying, and i guess the news is a reliable source, right? Stop trying to put the blame on one person. Instead of blaming or criticizing, maybe you should pray for this girl and her family.

        1. Having lived through one of these church cover-ups myself, I can assure you that if you’re getting your information from the church leadership, we do indeed know more than you.
          And yeah, poor grammar bugs me. It’s not really that important, I guess, but when you mix it with general ignorance and a lot of arrogance, it’s hard to ignore.

        2. The poor grammar is a red flag to me. If indicates that you are a moron I need to shop but it’s hard to get through the mall with all those men going crazy and chasing down every female who is not wearing a fundy approved dress

      2. These are all great and wonderful but don’t guarantee a life that can’t be ruined by rape. It’s not your choice when these men do this stuff. It doesn’t matter how spiritual and beautifully dressed you are. They can still rape you.

    4. “I have a dad and i have brothers so i know how men think”
      Um…exactly how do we think? Cause as a 41 year old man, I could care less how you dress. It doesn’t affect me, I am attracted to ADULT women.

      Sounds like your Dads got some issues, please don’t even try to place that yoke upon us. Your comment about dressing “like a Christian Woman” is silly. There is no certain way to “Dress like a christian woman” Dress how you feel comfortable, come to the Lord AS YOU ARE and leave all of this superficial stuff behind. Sounds like you need to find a different church, any church, just not your Dads. Good luck to you

    5. I have a dad and i have brothers so i know how men think that’s why i dress as a Christian young lady so i won’t have to worry about leading somebody on because my clothes is too tight, or my skirt is too short.

      so your dad and your brothers educated you on the dirty workings of male minds? Did you learn by watching them go astray because of immodest dress on other girls, or did each of them sit you down and explain how looking at short skirts makes him horny? I’d be fascinated to hear how this worked.

    6. I can’t believe as a woman you would say these things about this girl. As I read what S did, he knew he had a victim when he was counseling a young girl that had been abused.It does not matter how she dressed or how she acted, she was still a child. I understand in ID the legal age of consent is 16 so there will not be any legal charges brought against him. This man took advantage of some young girl that had already been abused and used her for his own gradification. Even if she did not “YELL OUT” she was mentally raped and physically raped. Do you not have any compassion for this girl? It seems all you fundy women are taught to believe that rape is a woman’s fault if she is not dressed in a certain way…she deserved it. I agree that a woman shold be dressed modest, but there is more than one preacher that has gone after a perfectly dressed woman. This was a 16/yo child and he is a 50 something man. Also, why did he not have another woman in the room if he was on the up and up?????

    7. I hope you are talking about the girl who was with Jack Schaap. I am 37 and no you don’t know me because I have never and still don’t dress in any provocative manner.

    8. Godhasbeengood, your sheltered life has left you very naive. Unfortunately, you’ve also been brainwashed to think that men are slaves to their penises, to their hormones. They’re not. (I say this as a wife and a mother of three boys and a friend to many, many men.) They are not driven out of their minds with lust simply because they see a scantily clad woman. If you feel more comfortable and confident when you are well-covered, then by all means, dress that way. But don’t judge other women as less-than because YOU want to dress from neck to knee. Other women have the rights to choose their own apparel and NOT be molested as they go through life, whether you like it or not.

      Secondly, I don’t care what reputation this young lady had (and I’ve heard all about it, thanks, so no need to drag her through the mud here). Young girls who are molested or sexually abused VERY often — incredibly often — become promiscuous or overtly sexual because of the abuse. That doesn’t make them sluts. It makes them wounded girls in desperate need of love and healing. You don’t GET to judge her from your safe, sheltered ivory tower where no one has ever touched you inappropriately and say, “Harlot! You brought it on yourself!” She may have willingly entered into sex with him, but that does not absolve him of his responsibility or change the fact that an adult male in a position of authority who has sex with a minor child is guilty of RAPE and nothing less. He raped her. Period. End of discussion. You don’t GET to draw lines in the sand and say that it doesn’t count unless it was violent or forced. Coercing, manipulating and taking advantage of a teen girl is rape — RAPE in all its ugliness.

      Wake up and face the reality.

      1. PP, thank you for the strong, well-worded reply to Godhasbeengood. Any time a man has sex with a young girl it is his fault. Every time. Unless, of course, she attacks him and ties him to the bed and rapes him. Have you ever heard of that happening? Me neither.

        It was jack’s fault. Period.

    9. Godhasbeengood, Sweetheart, I don’t know how old you are, and I don’t want to offend you or your parents for supporting this kind of thinking. But you are the prime example why places like FBCH and any other churchea who still follow this teaching need to repent and turn from their unbiblical teachings or just shut their doors.

      I come from an IFB type church in the 1980′s. Our Pastor did what Schaap did only he always waited till the girls were 18. He had many affairs with married women, his wife had affairs with men, also homosexual relationships. In other words, been there, done that. I wasn’t involved in any of the sin. But I was very close to the situation and know what happened.

      Your thinking is extremely wrong and toxic to you living a godly life and your future marriage and children. The things you are saying are so similar to what the radical Muslims say that it sickens me.

      I’m assuming you are part of that church as you say you know the girl involved. Us independent Baptists on the outside, (notice the lower case i and the absence of “fundamental”) have known for years that FBCH, and particularly Jack Schaap, are teaching heretical and pharasetical things. I know “brainwashed” is cliche’ but it is absolutely applicable in your case or you wouldn’t be saying the things you said.

      I promise you, there are many more on staff at that church involved in this type of sin. It is a given. Seen it too many times and that place is too big for it to be any other way. There is no way God was leading and directing in the leadership with a man like Schaap at the wheel. Your church should repent and change or just shut the doors. You personally need to get out of there, before it’s too late for you. You will regret that attitude and teaching when you are grown and have your own kids. Take it from me – been there, done that.

      I’m not saying you should walk away from God or anything like that. You need to draw close to God and work on your own personal relationship with Jesus Christ and quit following the largely unscriptural opinions of a bunch of bloviating, arrogant men. God’s church was alive and well long before Independent, Fundamental, Bible Believing, Preacher Worshipping, Hate everything and everybody, etc., Baptists came along. Free yourself of this mindset. Fall in love with Christ and His true character and stop following the Pharisees. FYI, I am a Baptist and wouldn’t be anything but a Baptist. We are even independent. Just not IFB. Please, I beg of you, free yourself.

  8. I apologize, I am new. I’ll get it…someday

    Realized my comment wasn’t to Liz because I saw that portion quoted in her post. We think similarly. It was to the original poster who said these words whose name is Godhasbeengood. She doesn’t seem to realize men are not animals. Pushing this kind of secular mindset is dangerous. Ok I’m off my soapbox..

  9. This is about so much more than what Schaap did with this girl. It has more to do with the culture of FBCH that has existed for decades…..legalistic churchism that confuses “doisms” such as “dressing like a Christian young lady” with being right with God. As Jesus said of the Pharisees, ” you are light white tombs, but inside you are full of dead mens’ bones”. That explains the sin and corruption there veiled by the appearance of doing good. Also, while I don’t buy into the arguement that the teen girl is not responsible for her part, Schaap was far more in the wrong on a few levels. Only in a cult like FBCH is the distinction hidden. Sorry faithful, duped subjects, but your emperor has no clothes.

  10. Grant, yes, just like Jesus times, the leaders were demanding that everyone keep the letter of the law while they went about doing as they pleased. Everyone at that church, who is still praising Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap need to get their eyes off of man and start praising Jesus Christ, read His word, LIVE it and then they would understand that sin MUST be dealt with NOT hidden; and then, yes, forgiven and as a church move on. KUDOS to FBC for acting quickly to let this man go. They’ve come a long way. Let’s pray for them to be restored in the Lord and the next pastor will keep Christ as the center, not the pastor or former pastors.

  11. I graduated from Hyles-Anderson college in 1988, and I attended First Baptist Church from fall1984-february 1996. I drank the Koolaid, so to speak, at that time. There was much controversy involving Dave Hyles being an infidel, A.V. Ballard being a child molester, and Jack Hyles being an adulterer and covering for the others. I believed the leadership at that time. I thought that Jack Schaap was too flirtatious even then, and that he was playing with fire. Guess he got burned! As a teenage girl at a different church with same kind of male egotistical control freaks in charge, My assistant pastor and a deacon in the church made passes at me at different times. I had enough confidence in myself to tell them to go find their own wives or I would make sure everyone would know what jerks they were! Not everyone has the wonderful mother that I did. Many young girls are insecure, and a manina leadership position knows how to work them. A 54 year old man needs to man up and take responsibility. If he cannot handle feeling tempted by a teen, then he is beneath contempt, and OBVIOUSLY a big hypocrit!!! How cow could he stand up there and tell everyone else how to live! I think all of his followers around the world deserve to hear from him!

  12. I appreciate the kind comments from everyone. I really want to say that some are missing the point as to why I put this story up. I posted it because I think people are naive as to how these things can happen. I am not saying all of us are victims nor am I saying we are innocent totally. The fact is that these men are getting away with what would be classified as rape in any court of law. Girls like me should have never had something like that happen to them. I was a soul winner as a young teenager, read my Bible through every year since I was 13, dressed extremely modest (never wore pants or anything above my knee, mixed swam, etc.) I was the Queen at my Christian school both my sophomore and junior years of high school, I was captain of the volleyball team, etc. etc. I am not trying to make me look good. I am saying, all I ever wanted to do was serve God and do the best at everything I did. I never sought things of the world. I would like to put a person of my caliber in the position my principal put me in and see what they would do these days. Some of you girls say you would know how to handle the situation; but I say you wouldn’t. These men are forceful, and stronger than a woman/girl, and know exactly what to say and do to scare you into never speaking about it. Even after the fact the pastor told me to take the situation to my grave. In my eyes telling didn’t help. It only made my well being and faith shaken to an even worse degree for the man responsible for keeping the students and congregation safe to make sure I didn’t talk so he didn’t have to deal with it and possibly lose his church.

  13. “slight sin”?! Forget about whether or not it’s a “slight sin” Or not, I didn’t know Gid categorized sin these days. The issue is it’s illegal n he broke the law. So really he should be categorized as a sex offender. That’s the issue! Hes the responsible adult!! I’m so sick of Christians talking about hurting the cause of Christ-such a cliche of hipocrisy! I definitely don’t want to be a part of your so called Christianity/ cult. But I do want the Christ the Bible talks about n nowhere close to what u all preach. It’s time that cults n abusers be named!! So no, don’t shut-up until justice is served!

  14. To Godhasbeengood. Pls get off your high horse. I used to sound like u n drank the kool-aid!! Ive been a Pastor’s wife in ifb churches n what u hear in public is only the tip of the iceberg bec we were taught to cover things up! N dear a guy can get erection even w a full body suit!

  15. God has been good. What was done to you was a horrible thing. I am so sorry. If you have not ever had Godly Counsel regarding this matter, you probably still need to have it. You will never forget how a man you thought was a Godly example, abused you, but you will learn to deal with it. There are a lot of good, Godly fundamental leaders out there, but unfortunately, there are those who hide behind the title of fundametalist and do their dirty deeds and try to get those weaker than them to hide it. God will punish them for their deeds in some way or another. I have prayed for you-because reading all your posts, I sense a hurting heart underneath. Please find someone to help you. Pray about whom you can go to that is trustworthy-God will give you peace about the right person.

  16. Thank you Linda. I find the whole Schaap pleading out mind numbing and again his way of silencing victims – somehow he still gets a victory – How can men do this – control is so prolific with these guys even on their worst day they maintain some kind of control over victims – that must be how what keeps them coming back to this kind of crime…I don’t know

  17. No matter what don’t make excuses for him . He knew better and chose his actions . I looked up to him as a Christian hero . That is crushed and I’m very hurt snd disappointed in Christians .

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