198 thoughts on “Eating Crow”

  1. Haven’t read all the comments, so this may have been posted already, but Lawrence O’Donnell had actual video of the sermon. I haven’t seen the video elsewhere or I’d like to it there. Lawrence (as he is wont to do) goes a bit overboard, although when you say “smells like a little girl” you probably should raise some eyebrows. Video of the actual sermon here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755883/vp/47273096#47273096

    I don’t believe the retraction/apology at all. Too many denials of things he clearly said.

    1. Wow! Watching the actual video is way more offensive.

      Yes, O’Donnell goes a bit overboard, but with this mother lode, it is hard not to…

      “What kind of pastor denies saying what we can easily see over and over in a recorded video?”

    2. wow–O’Donnell makes wanna side with the preacher!
      😳

      ODonnell twists words and makes things sound worse than they are already—some of his acusations border on lunacy.

      I bet he wasn’t this way with Jeremiah Wright. 😥

  2. I like Dr. Tony Cartledge’s comment on this instance, “One of the most disappointing and un-Christ-like diatribes i have ever heard… I would not dishonor the word ‘sermon’ by identifying it as such…we have to state unequivocally that Harris’ position presents a distorted view of Scripture that is completely out of keeping with the teachings of Jesus.” The interesting thing is this comment could be cut and pasted over just about every IFB “sermon” that is preached. LOL!

  3. I could lament the lack of coherence and logic. I could damn the violence. But in the end I just sigh and wonder how anyone could end up with such a distorted view of gender roles. I’ll tell where he didn’t get his understanding of what is “proper” for young boys. The Bible. I’m pretty sure, because I’ve read it cover to cover a time or two and there is nothing remotely like this in Scripture anywhere, even with IFB twisting.

  4. It has been my experience in Fundyland that the louder a preacher yells against something, the more likely it is he’s indulging in it himself. If alcoholism is his pet topic, check the cabinets and fridge in his home. If homosexuality is the be-all-end-all of sins, better keep an eye on the little boys. Adultery, and you can be sure he has at least one to twelve mistresses.

      1. Hefalump, I mean this with no disrespect to you, but I hope you understand that homosexuality has a statistically significant relationship with pederasty. It was noted by the ancient Greek writers, and it is noted today. This is a mathematical fact that has been published by numerous medical journals (American Journal of Psychology published an ANOVA table on the topic).

        1. While I appreciate and believe strongly in the distinction that homosexuality does NOT equal pedifilia, I find the link from Catherine to be suspect. It’s clearly from a site with an agenda: never trustworthy.

          So I hunted for any kind of testing or analysis by a party not biased in one direction or another (though I’d have to say that the American Journal of Psychology that Fundystan mentions seems unbaised to me; or, if anything, I’d think them biased for homosexuality). I would recommend this:

          The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study.
          Freund K, Watson RJ.
          Source

          Department of Behavioural Sexology, Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, Toronto, Ont., Canada.

          Published on PubMed, the online presence of the US National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health. Here’s the link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

          He concludes that the evidence at least suggests that there are a greater proportion of true pedifiles among the homosexual population than among the heterosexual one.

        2. Sorry, Catherine, but math is math. What we make of it is another story, but we don’t get to make up facts.

        3. Miriam, you left out this part:

          “This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.”

    1. ” If alcoholism is his pet topic, check the cabinets and fridge in his home.”

      Check the toilet tank. Good hiding place, and it keeps the booze cool.

  5. I think that the church is in danger of extinction because of its embrace of anti homosexual rhetoric. I have seen this cancer spread and kill congregations and families. When I was 19 I read a story in a major newspaper (not my local paper) about a man that had moved back home to my hometown of Lubbock, Tx to die. This was the late 80’s and he had aids. He moved back home with his parents from dallas. Both him and his family were barred from attending a church he grew up attending. The pastor said that he did not want a diseased gay man infecting his flock. that story shook my faith and my church attendance is spotty. I had a friend that was a baptist minister and posed with that same question he said that he would let the man attend his church only if he begged for forgiveness first. amazing how mog thinks he can stand in for God and offer judgement and forgiveness. As far as stereotypes go I design purses and womens clothing. I am also a former paratrooper. If this guy tried to punch me I would rip his arm off and beat him to death with it. Me and my wife have been married for over 20 years. I have 3 sons one of which is gay. It doesnt bother me or my wife, and he knows that if someone trys to bully him I will take care of it.

    1. I think that the church is in danger of extinction because of its embrace of anti homosexual rhetoric.

      Roman Catholics: 1.166 billion
      Southern Baptist Convention: 16.3 million
      Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod: 2.5 million

      The list goes on and on. I don’t think churches who do not embrace homosexuality are anywhere near extinction.

      1. The United Methodist Church, ended it’s General Conference yesterday. This happens every 4 years. Here are a couple of articles about the issue of hosexuality.

        This is how conference started: http://www.unyumc.org/news/detail/1118

        http://m.christianpost.com/news/gay-activists-stage-protest-at-umc-conference-after-failed-amendment–74411/

        http://m.christianpost.com/news/methodists-strike-down-amendment-to-agree-to-disagree-on-homosexuality–74312/

      2. ok extinction is over dramatic, but I hope that maybe younger members will bring different attitudes. Gosh Darrell you come in here with your high falutin’ statistics. You really know how to rain on a parade. no wonder proper fundies dont do well on this site. you with your facts. 🙁

  6. i thought this apology was “eh, okay i guess” until the 2 minute mark when he essentially says “if you got offended, it means you aren’t very smart”

  7. I did notice when listening to the full version of his sermon how his wrist would go limp at times. Does this qualify him for a wrist cracking?

  8. seriously, does anyone here think he was wrong in that a parent has a responsibility to instill masculine/feminie traits in their children “in the way they should go”?

    Not defending his remarks about hitting ( whether in jest or not) but the fact of the matter?

    Shouldn’t a father teach his son to be manly and a mother teach her daughter to be lady like?

    1. I think children learn what it means to be a man or a woman from the examples set by their father and mother.

      The problem is, when a father has such a dreadful fear of his son becoming a homosexual that he resorts to slapping him around, telling him to man up, and punching him in the gut if he so much as looks at a Barbie, he is not demonstrating biblical manhood as much as Christian insecurity.

      Furthermore, I have read Christian psychologist Bill Gillham say that an hyper-masculine father who is never satisfied with his son can actually lead him to reject masculinity entirely, feeling like he could never live up to the masculine image created by his father. I know this kind of teaching irks those who say homosexuality is gene not a choice, but whatever.

      Anyway, like someone posted the other day, what Christian fathers need to show their children is the joy and security of being a sinner saved by grace who has no need of showing off or living up to everyone else’s pious expectations. This will do a lot more for their son then punching him in the gut.

      1. Masculinity does not encompass all instances of heterosexuality. Rejecting masculinity does not mean rejecting heterosexuality. “I am not going to play your stupid game anymore” does not automatically mean “I am done having sex with women.” It may mean “I am done with women who expect me to play that stupid game and I am going to find a woman who likes pounding nails because I hate pounding nails and I would rather be the cook.” Of course, this may mean leaving his family’s congregation or his entire denomination, at which point people will assume that he has turned gay. 🙄

      2. The argument is not whether parents have a duty to teach their children how to act “manly” or “lady-like”* but what is meant by those terms.

        I loathe high-heels, I am allergic to most perfumes and I owe 4 pairs of pants for every skirt/dress. This apparently should have been reined in by my parents despite the fact that none of it is unbiblical, or makes me any less worthy as a human being.

        My brother likes to cook, has always loathed sports and is a bit of a dandy. Apparently my father should have punched him.

        This so-called sermon didn’t just discount the lives and person-hood of the gay kids in that congregation – it also discounted the non-stereotypical kids too, the tomboys and the gentle or studious boys, the girls who don’t like dolls and the boys who like nature and don’t want to shoot it. If you don’t fit this guy’s cookie-cutter your father has his permission to beat you.

        Very godly

        1. When I was a child, I wanted to be like my Dad, so I learned how to build and repair things, and also how to engage in very intellectual debates (something he did). I also admired my Mom, so I learned from her to cook and do laundry (but not to wear high heels or makeup, although she did those things), and to be kind to people as she was.

          What effect did all this have on my sexual identity? Probably not much. I remember “wanting” girls from a very early age, before I even understood what “sex” is. And that hasn’t changed. Human sexuality remains very mysterious.

    2. “a parent has a responsibility to instill masculine/feminie traits in their children”

      We used to go to monthly family pic-nics of the adoptive families support group. It always amazed me how, no matter what race or nationality, these kids, most under three years old, and barely months since the adoption, started “looking” like their adoptive parents. AND, here you had Korean, Colombian, Indian and Russian boys, pushing little cars around while saying “vrooom,” and fighting about their cars and the imaginary highways, while the just-as-racially-mixed little girls played cooperatively with their dolls, with our son.

      Those masculine/feminine traits… there is very little we as parents can actually do. What we as parents can do is either celebrate them, of force them to hide whatever traits god gave them.

      I am not aware of a single culture where punching a four year old boy is considered celebratory.

    3. Sure, The, I’ll go ahead and disagree. Mostly because what you’re talking about traits) is ill-defined at best and ill-understood as well. Trying to modify either specifics traits or behavior in children, especially very young children, is more likely to be destructive than useful. I’ll second Altar Ego’s reply: the responsibility of the parents is to be models for their children, not attempt to control their behaviors. We have a responsibility to teach, and example is a powerful teacher.

    4. “Shouldn’t a father teach his son to be manly and a mother teach her daughter to be lady like?”

      No.

      Parents should teach their children to be decent human beings. Gender and gender performance has nothing to do with being a good person.

    5. When my nephew was 3 or so he went through a phase where he was a huge fan of Buttercup from the Powerpuff Girls. He’d be all “I’m not Ryan, I’m BUTTERCUP!”.

      It was funny. We weren’t particularly concerned, because Buttercup is the “toughest fighter” and a bit of a tomboy. Pretending to be Buttercup mostly consisted of beating the heck out of me (I was playing the villain, Mojo Jojo).

      Eventually he moved on to Hulk or Spider-Man.

      This preacher guy would probably have freaked out, and/or abused the heck out of the poor kid.

      1. When my son was 3 he asked to be Tinkerbell for Halloween. After a few more questions, it turns out seeing her fly from the castle at Disney was what shaped his decision.

    6. A child learns to be a man or a woman by examples (role models), not by being punished for what a parent deems to be “effeminate” or “butch” behavior.

  9. You know it is a Fundy church when, no matter how outlandish and unbiblical the preaching is, there is a crowd full of yes men chuckling, nodding their heads, and saying “Amen Preacher!”

    That is probably also the most chilling part of the audio. You get the feel that it is not only the pastor who is a quack, the entire congregation is filled with wacko’s, or at least people complacent enough to go along with whatever the Pastor says.

    In a way, it reminds me of those old lynching photos where crowds of people looked on causally laughing and smiling as a man was violently killed.

    This is not to truly compare the two, but it makes me wonder at what point would a congregation dare to disagree?

  10. Althose the A$$hole in the clip doesn’t help anyone, There is another side to the Christian v Gay story. The Gays are not ALWAYS the victim. In Engand Scotland and Northern Ireland, there is an extremley powerful Gay Rights LObby, and in and dabate between Christianity and Gay Rights, Christianity, and Christian Values ALWAYS come second.

    This is from the Christian Institute, which is based in England. There are lots more examples, but this will do for now

    Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas any more.

    Bibles are ‘homophobic’, Scots police told

    Scottish police forces have been told not to accept a gift of free Bibles from the Gideons because the book “condemns homosexuality”.

    The Bibles have been offered to Scottish police forces featuring each force’s badge.

    But the Gay Police Association (GPA) is against the move, and has issued a statement demanding that the forces refuse to be involved.

    Untrue

    In the past, the GPA has been in trouble with the authorities for making untruthful and misleading claims involving the Bible.

    In 2006 the group was reprimanded for producing an ad featuring the Bible next to a pool of blood with the headline “in the name of the father”.

    The ad blamed religion, focusing in particular on Christianity, for violent attacks against homosexuals.

    But the Advertising Standards Authority ruled that the ad was untrue, indecent and unsubstantiated.

    Guide

    Trade union UNISON has joined with the GPA in opposing the offer of free Bibles for Scottish police forces.

    Gideons say they want to offer Scottish police the Bibles as a “valuable guide to life”.

    The group said they “can be offered to all members of the individual force, both serving police officers and civilian staff”.

    ‘Concern’

    But the GPA said in a statement: “Members of the GPA have contacted us expressing concern that their Force is officially endorsing a religious book containing text which condemns homosexuality.”

    It added: “The GPA does not feel that a public service, such as the police, should be seen to be endorsing, by their active involvement, any particular religion over and above any other religion or non-religion.”

    The GPA said if the Bibles were to be offered, “surely this can be done without the actual involvement of the police force concerned”.

    Reject

    UNISON commented: “It is not the role of a Police Force either to provide official endorsement of any religion or foist religious views on its staff.”

    The trade union added that it hoped police forces in Scotland would “reject” the offer.

    1. Why are the Gideons wasting money giving Bibles to police who probably already have Bibles if they’re Christian?

      It’s not like Christianity is a new faith to British shores.

      1. I ended up with three or four Gideon testaments before graduating college.

        On a campus where it was impossible to graduate without having bought a Bible for a textbook, they liked to force-gift students testaments before allowing them to pass into the cafeteria on ‘area churches try to attract people into their college ministries in the lobby’ day.

        I got stern looks AND a testament for telling them I had multiple Bibles and two of their testaments already.

        They weren’t even the translation we needed for class. 😕

      2. Britain is NO LONGER a Christian Country, not by any stretch of the imagination. It has largely rejected its Christian heritage, and is fast becoming one of the most secular countries in Europe. Probably 75% of the population under 40 has not seen the inside of a church, and only 5%-6% attend church with any regularity. Christians and Christian Values are becoming increasingly excluded from public life – infact the present Goverment, legal sphere and the Media have a higher regard for the views of the Gay Rights Movement, than they have for Christians. I am not joking.

    2. It is true that many gay/lesbian groups continue to be very outspoken and downright derogatory about Christians who are against homosexuality. And I personally get tired of hearing the words “homophobic” and “hate speech” thrown at anyone who dares to disagree with anything these same groups say.

      BUT, none of that excuses real hateful words and actions against anyone, and that includes gays and lesbians. It certainly doesn’t excuse this preacher encouraging child abuse because a kid isn’t conforming to gender stereotypes. As Christians, we are supposed to treat people as Christ taught us to treat them, no matter how other might treat us.

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