85 thoughts on “Taxes”

  1. What’s that verse where Paul or somebody says if you’re persecuted for being an idiot, shut up and take it because you deserve it?

    1. The verse in Matthew that says “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s. . .” will do. Or did he just skip over that bit?

    1. and I personally love how they threw in a Thomas Jefferson quote and a Terry Shiavo reference to support their opinion of why he was innocent.

  2. I saw him debate somebody once before I was old enough to figure out if what he was saying was accurate. After seeing how he treated his opponent, I decided he was a jerk and should be considered a poor source of information. It’s pretty bad when a little kid can figure out you are untrustworthy without fact checking you.

    1. No kidding. Unlike Al Mohler and Ken Ham, he didn’t use doublespeak to question your salvation if you didn’t agree with him 100%. I don’t think “dick” is too strong a word to describe my perception of him, even when I was under the 6 day “literal” creation spell.

    2. I will never forgive myself for missing his presentation at my college on Sunday afternoon. So what if I had a 10 page paper due on Monday and I wasn’t even on page 2? I should’ve gone anyway!

  3. Some biologists say that dinosaurs have not disappeared, because modern birds are essentially dinosaurs.

    Don’t expect that argument to carry much weight with the IRS, though.

    1. The fact the goverment would send you to prison for ten years just over taxes is what gets me. It seems at least at the federal level, the sentences for financial crimes always trend toward the high side while violent crimes skew down. I remember reading some study back in college in mid-ninties the average sentence for homicide(this included everything from capital murder down to invoulentary manslughter)was about seven years while the average time for tax evasion was around 11 years. Seems like they have their priorities messed up. Unpaid taxes should amount to no more than pay-up with back interest.

  4. He’s sufferin for Jeebus, just like the Thompson bros, maybe he should write a book and get BJIII to endorse it!

  5. How funny that today and yesterday’s posts were about 2 guys that attended (or gradudated) from Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac MI. They sure have had their share of wacko students.

        1. Sorry, I was having too much fun with your responses, had to wait a little while. :twisted:

  6. I read that link supporting this guy and wow. Those people are really angry, but I guess thats what the ifb movement is about, 3 basic principles. Anger, anger and oh, whats the third one? Yes, anger.

    I’m sure the 10 years this guy got will allow him sufficient time to consider his life’s choices. He will learn some lessons on the inside also and the one he will remember the most will be: “to not drop the soap” in the shower. :mrgreen:

    1. My first IFB church did not run on anger. But they definitely ran on tradition. If you left, you were written off. They were more tolerant of dissent than the average fundies, in those days.

    2. The anger was a big clue to me that so many in the IFB were not in touch with the Spirit of God Who is gentle, kind, and patient. (Ironically, I struggle with anger myself, though I certainly don’t have a pulpit or a blog or a radio program nor the chutzpah to air my ill-temper publicly.)

      1. My father-in-law is a very angry man. He’s been IFB pretty much all his life. But no one except his immediate family knows how angry he is because he has to hide it at church and work (Christian school).

        My husband brought that same anger into our home when he married, but when we left the IFB a few years ago and really learned what the grace of God is, he started changing. When you know you don’t have to DO things to please God, you stop putting up walls and playing the hypocrite and getting mad when you’re not perfect. It’s easier to open up, admit problems, give second chances, and just live in grace. So freeing!

    1. IIRC, Hovind tried to use Pensacola Christian College students and pay them under the table, which motivated Becca Horton to turn him into the IRS. Becca, having previously been spanked by the IRS, did not want to be caught up in his eventual downfall.

    2. It’s not just that he didn’t pay his taxes. It was more that he was arrogant about his views and in his treatment of those who disagreed with him. He failed to demonstrate “In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves…”

      1. There are a lot of income tax resisters, but the ones who get clapped into prison (as opposed to just having their assets confiscated to settle the taxes) are usually the ones who make a big public deal about it.

  7. Years ago he came to our church and went off on a tangent regarding the tax system. Even in my youth I felt that this issue would end up destroying his ministry. And a few years later he sits in jail. But he will be lauded in the IFB world for his stand and conviction over this issue.
    Thankfully our pastor never had him come back. He also told our congregation that Kent was wrong and it was not wise to do what he espoused.

    1. His son Eric came to my church to do the same week of meetings his dad did a few years before Kent wound up in prison. The pastor found out that Friday night’s presentation was going to be a rant on taxes and KJV-only, and he and the deacon board shut him down. The told him to find something else to talk about on Friday.

  8. I actually believe most of what Kent Hovind believes as it relates to creationism and about the legality of the income tax as well. The history of the Federal Reserve and the IRS is interesting.

    That being said, Kent Hovind is the epitome of a douche. He actually believes he is suffering for Jesus and the sake of conscience. As someone has stated before, was Caesar’s taxation of the world “fair”? Isn’t a good testimony “to them that are without” worth anything anymore?

    1. I’m definitely a Young-Earth Creationist. There is an interesting subtle difference between facts and truth, though. Facts are only true if they are linked correctly in relation to reality. Many of the things that he says are factually based, but don’t seem to be true in the full sense of the word. They way someone reaches a conclusion is just as important as the conclusion itself.

  9. Those of you who are waiting for the last possible second: the USPS will not be open for extended hours today as they have been in previous years. The IRS is reporting that most people are filing electronically and they have most of the returns in already.

      1. Done.
        Bone-head mistake found.
        Amended return filed.

        I have a great tax guy. But he can’t always cover for stupid. At least my mistake didn’t hurt me.

  10. Yeah, the whole “Render unto Caesar” thing was probably not the subject of a lot of this martyr’s sermons before he got three hots and a cot. I clicked on the link posted by Finally Ran Away (thx). That got me up to speed. The “Thieving Bankers” was especially humorous to me. I was a loan officer from 2002-2007. So many people don’t understand what really happend, or even stop to think long enough, to realize how stupid the idea is that bankers wanted any of this. Nobody loans money hoping that they don’t get paid back! When a bank has to repossess a house, they typically get something that has been gutted, has frozen pipes, has the copper ripped out of it, and is in need of $100,000 worth of repairs before it can even be put back on the market. Then they have to pay the property taxes, somebody to cut the grass, landscaping, power bill so that the pipes don’t freeze again, etc.

    As an LO, when I would take an application, I would digitally enter all of the relevant information that would then be submitted electronically to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The applications didn’t go to the bank, they went straight to the government. The banks didn’t approve the applications, the government did! If I got a Fannie or Freddie approval, THEN the banks knew that they could sell the loan to Fannie or Freddie because there was a Fannie/Freddie approval that GUARANTEED the government would backstop that loan. Without a Fannie or Freddie approval, the banks wouldn’t even look at a loan. As more congressional pressure got applied to lower the credit, income/asset, and down payemnt requirements, Fannie and Freddie pushed out more approvals for people that had no business buying what they were buying. The “home ownership should be a right” narrative, pushed mainly by the left, but some on the right as well, created an environment where there was constant pressure to lower the standards necessary to buy a house. So now the easy bogeyman is the EVIL banks, but very few understand that the banks were doing what they were told to do by the government. The government guaranteed that if they gave crap loans, they couldn’t lose because they were insured using taxpayer dollars through Fannie and Freddie. The reason that America never had a housing bubble like the one we just went through is because the government had never decided to lean on the banks so that everyone could buy a house. Are bankers saints? Absolutely not. But, they didn’t loan trillions of dollars hoping to never get paid back. They never would have loaned the money unless the government insured the loans. That’s exactly what happened, and for anyone that wants to look it up, keep an eye on how much money Fannie and Freddie need every quarter from Congress to cover the losses.

    1. Government has a unique ability to put the screws to private sector industry like none other. I know, my husband works in the pharmaceutical industry which has been painted as a vilain for decades. The hoops that an pharma co. has to go through to get a drug to market in the name of regulation are breath taking (not to mention the mega $$$). It is borderline black mail.

      To your point, more people than you know are aware that Fanny and Freddy were the catalyst for the housing crisis.

    2. uh-oh. I just chewed out one of these “customer service” people over a $15 fee for a domestic wire transfer. I told him banks ought to be illegal, and they were the cause the country is bankrupt. Then I told him I wasn’t asking for a refund, and hung up. He was the supervisor (I couldn’t understand the first guy), so hopefully his pay makes up for people like me. Anyway, that was a bad slip, I don’t do this type thing regularly. I almost died laughing when they did refund the fee. Anybody know of a possible career move – me yell at people and get paid?? :twisted:
      Anyhow, that was free. Thanks for explaining how that worked in reality. I shall approach those vultures (just kidding) humbled after this. :lol:

    3. Except the banks don’t make the repairs before putting the homes back on the market. They sell them as-is, and the buyer is responsible for making any necessary inspections and/or repairs. Well … in my area, anyway. Perhaps it works differently elsewhere. (We’ve been looking at foreclosed properties.)

    4. “Absolutely not. But, they didn’t loan trillions of dollars hoping to never get paid back. ”

      What they did was they loaned trillions of dollars, then sliced up, bundled, and sold the loans to investors. So it became someone else’s problem.

      And there were mortgage brokers, who made bad loans, and sold them to big banks, but if the borrower made payments for six months the broker was off the hook. So the brokers made lots of loans with low payments up front, not caring if the payments tripled the next year and the borrower couldn’t afford it.

    1. Yeah, if they aren’t literal days then are we to work for six thousand years and then rest for one thousand? :shock:

    2. My sentiments exactly. It’s as if he tries to be a nut-case. It’s hard to imagine that much foolishness is natural. It’s like we used to tell each other when I was MUCH younger and a lot less gray: “You must be a twin. No one person could be so dumb!”

  11. I felt bad for his wife. She got arrested along with him, if I remember correctly at their house at night, and the cops didn’t give her time to get dressed??? She had to go in her nightgown, apparently. She got 1 year and one day. Even if she didn’t agree with her husband, she probably would have been guilted by indoctrination into believing that she’d be doing the devil’s work by resisting her husband and possibly destroying his ministry. Or surely destroying his ministry? Anyhow, women in IFB circles (as well as extreme Mormonism; as in Carolyn Jessop’s autobiographical books “Escape” and “Triumph”) are screwed twice, because they have to follow 2 “men of God” to be ever so godly. Anyhow, good old Kent just got away with it, and got away with it, and got delusional, thinking he’d get away with it forever, until he didn’t. Epic ooops. Used to love his tapes, he was funny. :roll:

    1. I just recently read both of these books. I am now reading a book called “Shattered Dreams” by Irene Spencer and she wrote another called “Cult Insanity” which I am reading next. I think there will be some distinct parallels between what these people went through and the IFB though the IFB isn’t quite as bad! Definitely these women have been programmed to obey their husbands no matter what and that to even question him is to question God. The Fundamentalist polygamy practicing Mormon women are even told that if they rebel they will go to hell. They have been brainwashed by the men and it seems to be too much to send her to prison only for doing what the cult tells her, obeying her husband. I hope they will go easier on her. :cry:

    2. Were you there when he visited FBCofB? It was when I was quite young, but I remember many from area churches coming out for the “Creation Conference.”

    3. 1Tim 2:5
      “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”

      I have actually seen some fundies claim this verse is not applicable to women, since they must submit to their husbands or fathers. So….these fundies allege that if a woman sins because her husband or father require it of her, she will not be held to account for that sin – the husband or father will. This means women are not independent agents in God’s eyes.

      I find this low few of women chilling, and can’t believe it took me so long to figure out the basis of their belief in excessive submission.

      Thanks be to God my daughter is taught about her full worth in the eyes of God.

  12. Another bogus fundie “doctor”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

    [i]Education In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 to 1974, Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education.

    In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master’s degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado, which no longer offers this program). Having a website called “Dr. Dino” has provoked some academics to look closely at how Hovind presents his education and credentials. Chemistry professor Karen Bartelt has said that it is “very unusual for a person with a Ph.D., even a real one, to list oneself in the phonebook as “Dr Hovind”, as Hovind has done.” [emphasis in original]. Barbara Forrest, a professor of philosophy, expert on the history of creationism and activist in the creation-evolution controversy, wrote that Hovind’s lack of academic training makes it impossible to engage him on a professional level.

    Other critics of Hovind have pointed out that Patriot Bible University is a diploma mill, as it has unreasonably low graduation requirements, lack of sufficient faculty or educational standards, and a suspicious tuition scheme. The school’s current policies allow students to attain bachelor’s degrees, master’s degrees, and even “Doctor of Ministry” degrees in months, rather than years, for as little as $25 per month. Currently Patriot offers a monthly fee, unlike most universities, which only charge per-credit fees.

    Bartelt has stated that Hovind’s doctoral dissertation is evidence of the poor requirements at Patriot and that Hovind lacks knowledge of basic science. Bartelt noted that Hovind’s dissertation is incomplete (it contains four chapters totaling 101 pages, but Hovind’s introduction claims the work is 250 pages with 16 chapters), of low academic quality, with poor writing, poor spelling, and poor grammatical style. Bartelt asserts that pages are repeated, references are absent, and it is not an original work with original ideas.

    In the past, when questioned about his education and qualifications, Hovind has said his critics use ad hominem arguments, and Patriot has issued similar comments. In 2010, Patriot responded to Wikileaks’ claim to have revealed Hovind’s dissertation, writing that the Wikileaks file was not the “finished” product, but because they do not “retain ownership to student thesis’ [sic] or dissertations, as is commonly practiced by many schools”, they “cannot release student work to the public”. Patriot will not send copies of Hovind’s doctoral dissertation, which is unusual for an institution to do since dissertations are made available to the public. As a general rule, doctoral dissertations are published by the associated university and made available to the public, so that other students conducting research in similar areas may use the information in the dissertation as a reference. Bartlet wrote that the copy she viewed is on file at the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), but the organization cannot distribute it due to copyright restrictions. The NCSE’s copy was received from Skip Evans, who obtained Hovind’s dissertation from Patriot with Hovind’s permission in March 1999.[/i]

    For doing his part to dumb down America with his “Talking Snake” Theory, I hope Hovind dies in prison.

    1. If this is his actual dissertation, all I can say is “wow!” I wrote stuff with this depth in highschool–and I was familiar with compound sentences!

  13. My brother works at the federal prison in SC where Hovind was sent. My brother knew who Hovind was, and was careful to avoid any interaction with him. Smart man (my brother, that is).

    1. I find Wikipedia’s list of notable inmates to be very informative. Hovind’s potential cellmates include a number of Al-Qaeda operatives, the Unabomber, Terry Nichols of Oklahoma City bombing fame, assorted Mafia and Gulf Cartel bosses, and the founders/leaders of such notoriously violent gangs as the Bloods, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Norteños, Gangster Disciples, and El-Rukn. On the other hand, the prison also houses founders of the Aryan Brotherhood, The Army of God, and the neo-Nazi World Church of the Creator, with all of whom “Dr.” Hovind will probably find much common ideological ground.

  14. From his blog: “Five years ago today I was sentenced to ten years in federal prison — three of them for praying for a man on the radio and five of them for taking our own ministry money out of our own ministry bank account to pay the ministry bills! Whoda’ thought it could happen in America? It actually might be funny if it were not happening to me!”

    I WISH these guys would repent.

    1. lol, apparently he was charged with threatening bodily harm because he prayed for those involved in the investigation on the radio. I would love to hear the exact words that he prayed… prayer can definitely be used as a threat.

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