32 thoughts on “Understanding Our Times Podcast With Kevin Thompson (Part 2)”

  1. whoops, had a slight problem with the audio for a second there.

    It should be playing now…

  2. Very enjoyable conversation. Josh was my dorm supe my last year at MBBC. He had quite an interesting take on the Willis trial. I think both Darrell and Josh were right about the future of fundyism, although you appeared to be saying the opposite. Josh is right about the crumbling of the Fundy U system. When it stopped being about training people for ministry and instead became about funneling all fundy college-age people through the system, it was doomed to fail. That end will come sooner than a lot of fundys realize. The right-wing fundys are so large and have built up such momentum that they will keep going for decades, even without the support of the FU system. Many of them are distrustful of the FU system, anyway.

  3. Good comments by the three of you.

    However small the IFB movement gets, I don’t think it will disappear entirely. But it may become as obscure as, say, the Shakers are now.

  4. I just want to say I love the look on Phelps’ face when you first see the video.

  5. I thoroughly enjoyed that. You guys should do that more often. It sounded like you had some kind of familiarity with one another, no?

    1. It’s the first time I had ever spoken with Kevin or Josh. (Although I did know who Kevin is by reputation)

      1. I wouldn’t be opposed to doing something like this again sometime in the future. But, I’m more curious about this “reputation”… As a former fundy there’s nothing I treasure more than my testimony…

      2. I’m referring to your run for Congress in the Massachusetts 5th District. That’s mostly where I remember hearing about you previous to two weeks ago when I started reading your blog.

  6. The problem with the “network” chart posted at various websites is that it fails to honestly acknowledge that Bill Gothard is not IFB and that he freely fellowships with Charismatics and others that most IFB’s wouldn’t cross the street to listen to. Unless of course they are the compromising sort of IFB’s that will join up with people whose doctrines they disagree with simply to sit under the aberrant teachings of Bill Gothard.

    But Gothard isn’t IFB.

    Also, there is a huge amount of separation between factions of those who call themselves IFB.

    Hyles Andersons-ites think they are the only people who are right, but the rest of IFBism looks in askance at their freakishness.

    But the dead Jack Hyles still has plenty of followers. Prominently NOT among the followers of the dead Hyles is his widow Beverly. Not long after Hyles was buried she bolted from Hammond and is now a member at a more liberal Southern Baptist church in Texas.

    And then there is the BJU group. They are a little prissy and think they are somehow more sophisticated than the rest of IFBdom, but about the only thing I see they have going for them is that they tend to dress better. And from the looks of things, it would seem that they lose more followers than the rest of the IFB’s do.

    Then you have the West Coast IFB’s. With Paul Chappel at the helm, he’s quickly become to go to guy in many matters of IFBism as more and more people who are IFB consider BJU to be liberal in their bible department. So as BJU’s star is falling among the faithful, Chappell had found his star rising, along with that of his college.

    Just read Chappell’s blog. You’ll find a veritable treasure trove of IFB pastors paying obeisance to his every word.

    Even when Chappell made the ludicrous claim that one of the purposes of music was “for evangelism,” you still say IFB preachers lining up at his blog to make sycopantish comments of agreement. So there’s that group.

    Then of course you have Ruckmanites. They follow no man except Ruckman and sometimes Donavan and they believe that the whole lot of all the other IFB’s are apostates. And they don’t give two figs for what you think about them.

    Then you have some IFB’s, mostly in the Northern states and Canada who might have gone through HA or BJU or PCC, but they are not closely aligned with their former schools. They tend to be in agreement with missionary and writer and book publisher David Cloud. That group tends to believe that BJU is weak in the Bible department, that Hyles Anderson is awash with heresy and sexual scandal, and that Lancaster Baptist is liberal in the music department. (Lancaster often uses CCM.)

    You could probably sift those groups down even further, and of course I’ve not even mentioned Pensacola Christian College, mainly because Becca and Arlin Horton discovered that a school under a church doesn’t give them enough control, so they did away with the pesky problem of a church having oversight of the college by dispatching Ruckman all those years ago and hiring a series of pastors that they control.

    There are a few more, Dr. Tabb springs to mind, along with Ambassador Bible College and the Sword of the Lord crowd, including Crown University. They are usually all very hands off towards BJU, Ruckman and Hyles.

    So if all of the people calling all IFB’s a connected cult were being honest, they’d have to agree that there are DEEP divisions among IFB’s as a rule.

    Most Southern IFB’s have never even heard of Northland.

    I’d advise truthfulness in these matters to anyone who looking to turn themselves into some kind of IFB abuse advocate agency.

    Because when you lie and say that all these groups are connected and in collusion with one another, you’ve turned yourself into someone who is just a liar and out for vengeance, instead of honestly and truthfully trying to help people.

    If you don’t have more integrity than they people you are railing against, you’re just useless.

    1. “Just read Chappell’s blog. You’ll find a veritable treasure trove of IFB pastors paying obeisance to his every word.”

      On Chappell’s blog, anyone who does not agree with him does not get their comment posted.

      Also, Chappell has historically been a part of the Sword of the Lord crowd.

      1. Yes, I agree with that statement. Chappell has long had the support of the Sword of the Lord, but I think the tables have turned somewhat and Chappell is sort of a power unto himself as far as influence goes.

        1. IMHO Paul Chappell certainly thinks he is a power unto himself…With West Coast Baptist College’s rule requiring graduates to agree to return their diplomas if they disagree with the college’s (really Chappell’s) beliefs in the future, which sounds a lot like an ordination rule, they are setting themselves up as a quasi-denomination. Lancaster Baptist Church, at one time, operated a satellite church in Mojave…not an independent church…a satellite. But for now he is still quite tied to the Sword of the Lord. Is he on their board? Speaking/hosting their conferences?

    2. Every denomination of any size, and many a small one, has different factions, doctrinal and political disputes, and other conflicts. That doesn’t mean the members and groups are not connected to each other.
      (I know there’s some debate about whether the IFB should be called a “denomination,” but for simplicity’s sake, that’s the easiest one-word description I can come up with.)

      Just to satisfy my own curiosity, which Texas Southern Baptist church does Beverly Hyles belong to? Since I live in Texas, I have a passing familiarity with some of the SB churches here, especially the ones in the Dallas area.

      1. Bev Hyles attends FBC Dallas. That’s “more liberal” compared to FBC Hammond, but is solidly in the right wing of the SBC.

        1. Yes, that’s a very accurate characterization. First Baptist, Dallas, is on the right wing of the SBC, but not as looney as FBC Hammond. It’s also one of the largest, richest, and most influential congregations in the SBC. E. A. Criswell, Dallas First Baptist’s longtime pastor (now deceased) is virtually worshipped as a god there.

        2. Tikatu, that is absolutely typical of First Baptist of Dallas. Creating their own holy relics, shrines, rituals, etc.

    3. I think your information maybe a bit outdated. Clarence Sexton from Crown has caused quite a stink by going to preach at bob jones university and by having Jack Schaap down to preach at his baptist friends conference. I know that that has upset quite a few of the graduates. So my point is all of these groups are more interconnected than you seem to think.

      1. Yes, I believe your’e right about me being outdated! I dropped that subscription to the Sword a while back. You’re right about Sexton being more of a mixer now.

        Did anything ever come of him taking David Cloud’s church list and publishing it on Crown’s website?

    4. I am pretty sure Ruckman never worked for PCC. His house at one point was right in the middle of the campus but it has since been razed and covered with asphalt if memory serves. PCC would not have cultivated that relationship because of their stark difference on the KJV.
      The whole “what camp are you in” drives me nuts.

      1. Regarding Ruckman, at one time MANY years ago, he was the pastor of the church that Pensacola Christian School was founded out of, by the Hortons. No, he didn’t work for the Horton’s. I seem to remember the name of that church being Brent Baptist. I think they all split up in 1974 after Ruckman’s second marriage.

        Bob Taylor then became the pastor of the newly formed Campus Church at PCC.

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