Open Doors, Closed Doors

In fundamentalism God is a full-time doorman, constantly busy with opening and shutting various doors of opportunity. This notion of God is popular because claiming a door to be divinely open or a shut is a fantastic way to take responsibility off of an individual and instead place it on the Almighty…

“After four years of twisting arms, preaching on giving, and reworking the budget, God has opened a door for us to begin a new building program!”

“After spending all of my work hours “soulwinning” and arguing with my coworkers about politics instead of of working, God has shut the door on my further employment with that company.” (and now he’s opening a door for you to have the ministry of paying my rent, Amen?).

“After two years of forgetting to fill out the right visa paperwork and ignoring deadlines, God has shut the door on our further ministry in Europe.”

“My daddy is the preacher, my uncle is the head deacon, and now God has opened the door for me to take the job as their Christian School administrator at the age of 22 1/2.”

Who can ever really know if an invisible door is open or shut? It’s the ultimate in spiritualizing folly.

255 thoughts on “Open Doors, Closed Doors”

      1. You were right Rob, as ‘being’ has now been changed to ‘begin’ so these posts have served their purpose. I was just making an assumption that ‘being’ could also refer to the tendency of some churches to over identify their existence with the building progamme.

        1. It’s a typo I commonly make, so I recognized it quickly.

          Stuff Ex Fundies Like: spelling and grammar corrections! 😉

  1. I would like to see someone (I mean the almighty who controls everything) close the doors on the recent trolling around here.

    However, I am also enjoing watching the “open doors” for the wonderfully articulate people around here to showcase their logic against fundyism. I’m storing some of the responses for my own fundy family members. 😀

    1. I am taking an apologetics class in college right now. They teach how to defend your faith against atheists, muslims etc. However, I would LOVE an apologetics class that goes into detail about how to stand up against my former fundy friends and my fundy family. Those are the battles that much of us who love this site actually face on a regular basis. THAT would be a class worth taking. Breaking through their thick skulls and circular logic is quite difficult.

      Until then, I have SFL.

      1. Defending the faith against Fundies, IFB and IFBX especially, can be tough because of the years of anti-intellectualism and the “hunker in the bunker” mentality has left them bankrupt of all reason and logic. Usually you just end up wading through fundie “Old Paths” talking points, cliche’s, and parroting of the pastor’s opinions.
        The main battle with a Fundie is waged against their Ego. Just remember you can present evidence to them but ony God can remove the scales from their eyes and enlighten their hearts, minds and souls. 😕

        1. Yes! It’s all God! I’m learning not to fret about soulwinning, but try to live intentionally and leave the results to God. In the same way, I have to live with grace, humility, love, and confidence, and let the Spirit work on my friends/relatives who think my life is a shipwreck because our church has a drum set on the stage right now.

        2. Drums? On Stage? The same stage as the Pulpit? *shock* My inner fundie is haveing a conniption fit…. but my spirit says, “Praise the Lord, God is not in a box!” I truly wish I could visit with ya’ll sometime. 😎

        3. @Don, I have to admit that my husband took down the pulpit a little over a year ago! From their responses, some people in our church really thought it was sacred. He uses a small moveable podium now.

          We’d love to have you visit!

        4. Wha…??? You mean to tell me you removed the “Sacred Desk?” You, you, you…rebels! Next you’ll be telling me you removed the Pastor’s and music director’s throne chairs as well! Absolutely scandalous!
          I bet ya’ll have been through the fundie mill over just that much. What a battle you have been waging against the darkness and man-traditions found in fundy bunkers. I can only guess at the times you have heard “liberals”, “compromisers”, and “worldly.” Keep fighting sis, my prayers are for the Lord to strengthen you, comfort your hearts, open more eyes to Christain Liberty and proclaim the Gospel of Christ.
          A friend of mine who mostly reads here (ahem) believes one of the greatest mission fields in America is in and around the Fundie Bunkers and all who have been affected by the Cult of IFB (and other similar movements.)
          Godspeed to you and your Husband sis, Godspeed!

      2. @Polished Shaft,

        In a recent discussion with my mother, she was criticizing something (drums in worship music maybe) by saying the Bible tells us to avoid all appearance of evil. I said, “Well, Jesus didn’t even avoid all appearance of evil. He ate with sinners and publicans and a woman of ill repute came and washed his feet. That appeared evil to the Pharisees. They actually called him a drunkard and a glutton. Obviously he wasn’t avoiding all appearance of evil.” Mom replied, “Jesus never sinned.” I said, “I know, Mom!!! He never sinned, but He DID eat with sinners so ‘avoid all appearance of evil’ must not mean what you think it means. It means avoid all kinds of evil or every different type of evil not avoiding ever doing something that someone else could construe as evil.” She just didn’t get it.

        I think that’s why so many IFB churches I know do so little to help their community. They’re so worried about “avoiding all appearance of evil.” They’re so terrified that someone would wrongly interpret what they do that they don’t do anything at all.

        P.S. Sorry for repeating this conversation that I think I related elsewhere. I am still just amazed at the conversation. It’s as clear as anything to me and my mother just did not get it at all. There was no way of getting through all those years of teaching on “avoid all appearance of evil”. It will have to be the work of the Spirit.

        1. 1Th. 5:22 in KJV states, “Abstain from all appearance of evil”. But most modern translations (even the NKJV) state “Abstain from every form of evil”. It seems the meaning of this verse is avoid evil in all its form. It is not saying, avoid what might look evil.

        2. An old teacher of mine used to quote, “To the pure all things are pure.” I think a good question to ask sometimes is “Why would you even think that this could appear evil?” But like you said – Jesus did things that could “appear” evil. So did Paul and Peter and the rest of the apostles, post-resurrection. I agree with the “all forms of evil” as opposed to “appearance of evil.” After all, doesn’t God look at the heart, not the “appearance”?

  2. “God opened the door for me to…” is something I heard often. For instance a friend I went to Bible College with was a missionary to England..went on deputation, collected money, etc. Then, apparently his theology changed and after hosting a seminar of sorts involving John McArthur, apparently Mr. McArthur told him to “leave all ‘this’ and come work for me”…apparently, God “opened the door” to abandon his flock to work for a big name and through this big name, God opened many more doors for service (and a fairly substantial salary, recognition and future opportunities I’m sure.).

    One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that the proverbial “doors” always opened for those closest to the Pastor’s heart…you know, the “first round” draft pick.

    Good topic Darrell.

  3. OK, I’ll admit it. I totally used this one (along with “I’ve been praying about it”) as a copout the other day. 😳 I was tired of answering people’s questions about a decision I’ve made (especially as I’m not at liberty to discuss my real reasons), so I did the only thing I knew would shut them up. It worked like a charm, and they’re not even fundies. Apparently I hid my wincing pretty well as I said it! Maybe I should go into acting after all…

    1. It didn’t work with me. I honestly had prayed about my decision to join the military and was told that it wasn’t God that was leading me. All I knew is I felt just as comfortable joining after praying as before, and had fulfilled their ‘requirement’.

      1. That has to be hard when your church family, whom you want to support you, criticize you instead. I admire your courage in following your convictions and not giving in to their disapproval. But it couldn’t have been easy.

        1. Leaving was hard, but after a few months it was like a new world opened up.

          I knew I wanted to leave IFB-ism since a young teen, but kept trying to make it work. I thought it must’ve been a heart problem and kept getting saved multiple times and trying to get myself right.

          I graduated HAC with a degree that most people didn’t recognize. All my money had gone to getting that degree, leaving me broke. I was done with everything, but couldn’t afford to leave.

          The military was my ‘golden ticket’ out. I had a place to sleep (though for the first two months that sleep was scarce and interrupted by screaming seargents :P), income, the promise of college money for a real degree, and a complete environment change. I met my amazing husband a few months later. No one else understands when I say the freedom I gained was one of the best rewards I’ve gotten by joining.

        2. I admire your determination, praise God for His blessings in your life, and am grateful for your service to our country!

        3. I’m with PW on this, Emily: yay for your courage! It is a scary thing to leave the only life you’ve ever known … five months ago I left Fundyism, too, with no money and no degree anyone outside of BJU would care about, but it is SO worth it. I am not. ever. going. back. I think God has SHUT that door.

      2. Semper Fi Sis, Semper Fi
        In the IFB when a guy joins the military there is much rejoicing. When a gal joins then she is wanting to do a man’s job and she is regarded as a usurper…
        Thank you for your service,
        from a former (not ex- just former) jarhead
        Semper Fi Emily
        😎

        1. Thanks Don!

          So true. I’m on a few prayerlists, not for the danger aspect, for ‘getting back to God’.

      3. Good choice,
        After 4 years of fundy college, I thought basic training (USArmy) was fun, never got so much sleep.
        At the fundy college I was at, 6 hours was typical for me and sometimes only 4 hours. I was working 2nd and 3rd shift to support the fundy habit. In basic, we typically got 8 hours. God used the army experience opened my eyes in a major way. God bless you while you’re there.

        1. Lol, I agree. When I was in college, I got sick so often I worried I wouldn’t make it in the military. I’m healthier now than I ever was at HAC, because even though it can be a high-stress job they emphasize us getting a decent amount of sleep and taking care of our health.

  4. I also love the expression, “We’re stepping out on faith,” especially when the decision is incredibly stupid.

    Amanda, sometimes shutting people up is the goal. Congratulations. We’ve all done that.

    1. “Taking a leap of faith” = a foolish decision in IFB. Actually, anything with “faith” is just a sugarcoat of a not-so-good decision on the horizon. I don’t understand why wisdom is preached so much in IFB but then you’re told not to do anything until you “hear God’s voice.” Well, if you hear God’s voice then it overshadows everything else, including wisdom. It makes me so angry when I see bad decisions on the grounds of “taking a leap of faith.”

  5. The ugliest church split I ever witnessed was over this very concept. The church was small and could not really afford to pay a “Pastor” full time. The dude had a good paying job but he wanted to be a “Full-Time” M-o-g. The power play was a study in manipulation and he finally kicked the door open and proved it was god’s will for us (actually those who were left after he ran off the “naysayers”) to take him on full-time. 🙁

  6. Sometimes you have to remember that open doors may lead to empty elevator shafts. 😉

    I don’t have any problem with folks using this phrasing when things line up and the only reasonable explanation (besides blind luck) is providence. On my way out of IFBism I think I could say that my job that brought me up north was an open door; it certainly was divine providence. There’s no other way to describe why the three hiring officers in a company that isn’t hiring would all independently decide to contact me and ask if I was maybe possibly looking for a job. (Answer: absolutely!) And if I’m talking to an IFBer I’ll probably say God opened that door, and I don’t think I’ll lose any sleep over it.

    I guess the thing is, in a system where you can’t do what you want and you’re forced to do what you don’t want to do, all for the sake of keeping up appearances, the “open/closed door” system gives you a spiritual-sounding reason for bucking the system a little. Want to move and avoid the shunning that comes from leaving your church? Just claim it’s an open door and you can shame anyone who isn’t happy for you! Got cold feet about going to Africa like you said you would when you got weepy at the annual missions conference? Just claim God closed the door!

    I think it’s a legitimate way of describing something that God actually did, but it really bugs me when people attribute to God what God didn’t do.

    1. What y’all said. It can certainly be used as an excuse, but there have been several times in my life where “God opened a door” is the best way to describe what happened. And in one instance, God just flat out knocked the whole wall down! 😯

      1. Faith,
        Absolutely. God makes opportunities available and shows us the way. I whole heartedly agree with that. He the Sovereign Creator God! I have seen Him open doors and make the way obstacle free. And He has completely shutdown, what at the time, seemed to be God Ordained opportunities. I’m glad He is a God who says “No!” as well as “Yes” and “wait on my timing, not yours.”

        But… we have all seen the “God this is what we are going to do, you bless it” attitude and the “this is what I’m going to do therefore it must be God’s will… God opened the door” catch-all covering for whatever someone wants to do.
        One of the IFB’s greatest examples of this is the “Missionary” that has been sent out by the Church of Perpetual Deputation… and three years down the road they still have not raised their support and suddenly realize God shut the door for them to go to Montana. So how do we reconcille that? On the one hand “God opened the Door” and three years of deputation and $$$$ of support later, “God closed the door.” Is God that capricious? God suddenly says “oops, sorry, my bad.” I like Spurgeon’s approach to the ministry. If you think you have been called and you think God has opened the door… do everything you can to get out of it. If it is a Door God has opened, our feable efforts will not be able to shut it. Just ask Gideon, Jeremiah or Jonah. 😎

        1. “God this is what we are going to do, you bless it”

          This reminds me strongly of a certain man at a certain Fundy U. who used to read the Sunday morning passage and then say “And the Lord *will* add his blessing to the reading of His Word. I understand that you could make a case for this being a legitimate philosophy, but it always sounded to me like the height of arrogant, human presumption. Most people who say anything of the kind use, “May the Lord add His blessing…”, which comes off as a genuine request for God’s blessing rather than an order.

          A little off topic, but that’s what you reminded me of, Don. 🙂

  7. (Col 4:3) “Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ”

    (Rev 3:8) “I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door.”

    1. (John 10:16) “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

      My randomly chosen verse has as much to do with the original post as yours does.

      1. My verses both refer to……..open doors.

        Which has EVERYTHING to do with the original post.

        The basis of the belief discussed (and called folly)is based on these and other verses.

        John 10 has…….nothing to do with it.

        Whatever you were trying to prove Darrell, you only made yourself look bad.

        1. John, in all honesty I don’t think there’s anything I could say to you that would make me look worse than you’ve already made yourself look by your behavior on umpteen different posts now.

          My recommendation is for you to write all these salient points on your own blog so we can studiously ignore them from afar. Of course, you’ll never do that since you so desperately crave the attention you get here — attention, which I’m doing my best not to give you. So with that I shall return to ignoring you as best I can.

          Good day to you.

        2. Wow. Darrell admitted I was right. Cool 😎

          And remember Darrell, YOU brought unwanted and unwarranted attention to me, my Pastor, my pastor’s pastor. and by default the Church I pastor and love, then made it more personal by ridiculing me and a sermon I preached, then if that wasn’t enough, you unethically revealed my identity.

          I didn’t ask for, or seek such attention.

          Self defense is scriptural and natural, and the fact that you bit off more than you can chew says more about you than me.

        3. @IWGJ, sad but true. A grown adult having these persistent cries for attention from people who have no respect for him is truly a sad story, but I still wish he’d just go away and stop embarrasing himself.

        4. And our local john finally gets to the heart of the matter. Trolling for revenge. I’ve seen a lot of people spending time trying to talk him. I think it says a lot about the patient and sincerity of the readership that many have tried to use logic and reason in response to his rantings. The reason why I believe it won’t work is because our john isn’t here in the pursuit of truth, but to get back at those who have “wronged” him and his.

        5. I disagree.

          I enjoy Johns comments. Even though he may have different beliefs, I still view him as an integral part to the stfl community. Sometimes the only reason I bother to read the comments is to read what John has written.

          So, Please don’t go away John! We still love you here at stfl.

        6. Grow up, or take your toys and go home. You seem think anything that comes out of your mind and through your fingertips is spot-on and free of error. You follow appear to follow fundy rule 51, attacking others for their perceived lack of judgment, then claiming that their retaliation is proof of your superiority. You are doing nothing constructive here. Your verses have nothing to do with the will of God, but rather salvation. they just happen to have the word “door” in them. I now dismount my soapbox.

        7. 😯

          You say : “Your verses have nothing to do with the will of God, but rather salvation.”

          You obviously didn’t read the verses!!!

          Someone else brought up Rev 3:20 (which is to the Church, not the sinner BTW) not moi.

          It is really amazing how often this is done here against my posts–overlooking the actual and going for the slam—result? Fail.

        1. Now honey, I know you begged me not to do this, but I can’t let my Johnnie get bullied like this! Years ago I marched into his third grade class and did the same thing! You all don’t know what your attacks do to him. He’s a good man. Why, in church this morning I looked around our lovely dark wood paneled auditorium and there were his entire family. Our whole church is pretty much made up of John’s family – aunts, cousins, nephews, brother-in-laws, sister-in-laws and of course, his proud momma and daddy. Now that’s family! This web site just doesn’t get that. His sermons are from what we taught him growing up, and he had a rough time of it. He was a bed-wetter until 13 or 14 years old, and was always a sensitive child, so we taught him these three rules:
          1. Any attention is good attention. Because we are telling people about the Gospel, all we should be concerned about is just burning brightly and deep down everyone will love you.
          2. It’s not how MUCH you know about the Bible – it’s WHO you know! And that’s our lovely Lord and Saviour. If Jesus is for you, no one can be against you. If they don’t listen to your Jesus – never give up preaching! Sometimes louder is better – they’ll get it eventually.
          3. When you are right – you are right. You don’t need silly logic or worldly “rules of debate” . . . all you need is what we have taught Johnnie his whole life – and that is RIGHT and WRONG!

          We are so proud of our son and it hurts us so when you all pick on him like you have. I sure hope you don’t mind that I’ve said something, John, but you know me! I love you too much to see all these liberals with their fundamentalist hating, KJV 1611 hating, and precious Jesus our Lord and Saviour hating get away with their gobblity blah blah hateful arguments.

          Anyway, I’m sorry if I embarassed you John. Oh well, you have to figure your mother, right?Remember, I’m bringing soup over tomorrow night for you, and Karen, but John, remember DON’T eat it before you go to bed! Love you, hun!

        2. @Darrell

          (Serious note here)

          Is this the kind of thing you want here?

          First my Mother is insulted and now my wife is brought into this because your revealed my identity.

          Discussion and debate is worng thing…even satire, but is nothing beyond the pale?

        3. If I’ve made a point of not censoring your blather then I’m certainly not going to censor those who are making jokes at your expense.

          As for revealing your identity, I’ve already spoken to my motivation for doing so. You chose to keep posting here after people learned who you were so the responsibility for that is on you.

          Don’t play the victim card with me. My advice to you is to put on your big boy pants and stop whining. Try being nice to people instead of hurling verses like rocks and you may be surprised at how often they’ll be nice back.

          Other than that, you’re on your own. We have a number of fundamentalists and conservative people who read and post here…yet you’re the only one who seems to incur the wrath of pretty much everyone. You may want to stop and consider that the common denominator is you.

        4. @Darrell,

          I don’t care what someone says about me–I asked for it….but when it comes to my mother and the mother of my children?

          And you defend this?
          😯

          This says more about you than I think you realize.

        5. John said:
          “@Darrell,

          I don’t care what someone says about me–I asked for it….but when it comes to my mother and the mother of my children?

          And you defend this?

          This says more about you than I think you realize.”

          Um, who said anything about the mother of your children? Or are you saying that your mother is also the mother of your children? 😐 😯 🙁

        6. DJP

          Whoever is posing in parody as my mother, also mentioned my wife—the mother of my chidlren—by name.

          (Real life name to–not some screen name.)

        7. John I would like to take a second to point out that if the name of the “mother of your children” is something you wish to keep private then take her name off of your website. I only had to google your name and I found it rather easily.

          http://tinyurl.com/3yd45kn 🙄

        8. @alm517

          I am aware of how Google works. 😕

          That is beside the point.

          I do not know your last name, as anonymity is understood and supposed to be respected here.

          Darrell revealed my first and last name, not me, and opened my family up to such uncivil and unChristian attacks.

          Though I did not start this, I am responsible for my posts, not my family members.

          Bringing innocent people into such discussions is beyond the pale, and Darrell’s refusal to admit this is genuinely shocking.

      2. See, this is why I wish you had a forum. I’d really like to discuss this verse (since you bring it up). I have a lot of questions about it, especially now. But it would be way off-topic to start discussing it.

        Do you have any forums you’d recommend for such a discussion? Not looking for a FFF type of place, though. Something more open-minded and diverse.

    2. @John, we don’t need you to quote Bible verses referencing “open door.” Those of us with fundy upbringing KNOW our Bibles. We don’t know anything about popular culture – TV shows and movie references from the decade in which we grew up often go right over our heads – but we spent hours memorizing Scripture. There was even a post about how we appreciate this knowledge of the Scriptures: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2010/05/fundy-love-day-4-scripture-memory/

      This is just another example of why you come across as self-righteous to readers of SFL. The reference to “open doors” is understood; we don’t need to spell it out. By spelling it out, it appears that you assume we DON’T know that “open door” is in the Bible. You’re presuming that we’re ignorant about the Bible. It’s a putdown, because we do know, John. The point is that we’ve seen how it can be misused. And misuse of Scripture is seriously wrong.

      1. Oh, he’s at it again. 🙄 Yeah, yeah, he’s the only one who knows Scripture, we never possibly could, even though we all were in Fundyland ourselves…

        Even if several of us proved we had memorized the entire King Jimmy, he’d still think he knew more. *yawwwwnnnnnn* It’s getting old.

        Back on topic: All the doors for me to stay in Fundamentalism closed, and the door opened for me to leave. So there 😉

  8. Supporting the Open Doors hypothesis with Rev. 3:20 is about the worst you can get. Throw an irrelevant verse in there, and wahlah. Get the lowly sheep to listen without so much as a contra-bah. It’s worked almost every time I’ve seen it from the MOG’s pulpit. Sad to say that I’ve given (almost given) into it a few too many times.

    1. I am laughing right now from the term “contra-bah”. I really want every pastor in a business meeting in a fundy church to say ,”All opposed with a contra-bah?”

        1. It does seem inevitable, but I think this is probably the best way for his errors to be revealed to him.
          What you are writing in your blog posts are slowly seeping through his
          subconscious bringing him closer to the paradigm shift.

          P.S. I love reading your blog. Sometimes the best motivation for getting out of bed is to read your genius 🙂

        2. John looks to his left and right, to see that he is surrounded. He hears their chants as they reach out for him…..

          “One of us, one of us!”

          (Freaks 1932)

      1. He’s a real man-o-gid, all right.

        Oh, you mean Man of God? Actually, there are plenty of strong men on here who have discovered the flaws of Fundamentalism, walked away, repented of their own parts in perpetuating the errors of Fundamentalism, determined to live a better way, and embraced a more authentic walk with the Creator God.

        1. Cool. With yours added to the $5 Faith promised, that makes $10

          Hey— it’s “Faith Promise” giving!
          😆

      1. What “it is”?

        (I have always wanted to say that)

        Sorry to dissapoint Rob, but whoever it is, it ain’t moi.

        Interesting that you insist on accusing me of this though

    1. The Minority Majority speaks.
      I figure he was either a middle or youngest child. How else can you explain his (for lack of a better term) “style” of debate. I had a cousin who was the youngest in his family and he argues the exact same way. The persecution comples, the craving for attention, the total lack of personal responsibility since it is everyone else’s fault, the unreasonable since of moral superiority, the martyr complex… There is no arguing with someone like that. Believe me I’ve tried but it’s like arguing with Pee Wee Herman. 😯

  9. And remember Darrell, YOU brought unwanted and unwarranted attention to me, my Pastor, my pastor’s pastor. and by default the Church I pastor and love, then made it more personal by ridiculing me and a sermon I preached, then if that wasn’t enough, you unethically revealed my identity.

    I didn’t ask for, or seek such attention.

    Self defense is scriptural and natural, and the fact that you bit off more than you can chew says more about you than me.

    This is the closest Martyr John has come to truth in his postings.
    He has been wronged and now wants his pound of flesh.
    Poor Johnny has been soooo picked on. What, did your bully brother or sister pick on you as a child and Mommy always took their side? Johnny needs attention and sympathy.
    Everybody say “Awwwww”
    Feel better Johnny? 😥

      1. Now honey, I know you begged me not to do this, but I can’t let my Johnnie get bullied like this! Years ago I marched into his third grade class and did the same thing! You all don’t know what your attacks do to him. He’s a good man. Why, in church this morning I looked around our lovely dark wood paneled auditorium and there were his entire family. Our whole church is pretty much made up of John’s family – aunts, cousins, nephews, brother-in-laws, sister-in-laws and of course, his proud momma and daddy. Now that’s family! This web site just doesn’t get that. His sermons are from what we taught him growing up, and he had a rough time of it. He was a bed-wetter until 13 or 14 years old, and was always a sensitive child, so we taught him these three rules:
        1. Any attention is good attention. Because we are telling people about the Gospel, all we should be concerned about is just burning brightly and deep down everyone will love you.
        2. It’s not how MUCH you know about the Bible – it’s WHO you know! And that’s our lovely Lord and Saviour. If Jesus is for you, no one can be against you. If they don’t listen to your Jesus – never give up preaching! Sometimes louder is better – they’ll get it eventually.
        3. When you are right – you are right. You don’t need silly logic or worldly “rules of debate” . . . all you need is what we have taught Johnnie his whole life – and that is RIGHT and WRONG!

        We are so proud of our son and it hurts us so when you all pick on him like you have. I sure hope you don’t mind that I’ve said something, John, but you know me! I love you too much to see all these liberals with their fundamentalist hating, KJV 1611 hating, and precious Jesus our Lord and Saviour hating get away with their gobblity blah blah hateful arguments.

        Anyway, I’m sorry if I embarassed you John. Oh well, you have to figure your mother, right?Remember, I’m bringing soup over tomorrow night for you, and Karen, but John, remember DON’T eat it before you go to bed! Love you, hun!

      2. So that’s it John, you’re trolling for a boyfriend? Why didn’t you just say so to begin with? Why have you been beating around the bush all this time? We should have known, what with all your attacks on that subject. Are you crying for help in this area? Do we need to contact your pastor or church to have them pray with you about this? We are more than willing to do that for you. See we really do love you and only want the best for you.

        1. I said I wasn’t interested Don.

          I guess I could be flattered by being stalked by you, but it’s just so “icky”

          oh…..and a “man crush” is not the same as a “boyfriend” …..but we all know where your mind is now don’t we? 😉

        2. Nope. That would be YOU Don.

          You don’t have to scroll far up to see that one.

          I mentioned a “man crush” which is not at all sexual…you brought up boy friend.

          We’ll wait while you wipe the egg of your face. 😛

        3. “man crush” which is not at all sexual

          Wow, the cognative disconnect is amazing to watch in you John.
          Is that how you justify those dirty guilty feelings you are having? You just have “man crushes” and convince yourself they are not sexual?
          Since you are the expert on the difference between a “man crush” and a “boyfriend” perhaps you will enlighten us with your superior knowledge of the subject. To have the level of expertise you claim to have in this area then you must have experiential knowledge as well. Just let the guilt go John, you’ll feel better.

        4. You have a very filthy mind Don.

          Has there been some sort of abuse in your past? Did someone “touch” you?

          No wonder you like quoting perverted pornographic movies all the time.

        5. Your “man crush” is defined as :

          “When a straight man has a “crush” on another man, not sexual but kind of idolizing him”
          http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man%20crush

          You brought up the “boy friend” angle, so I suppose you know what that means.

          “There are two ways of exerting one’s strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up.” – Booker T. Washington

          Your little gay game would grow tiring, but then that’s what stalkers do!

        6. “‘man crush’ which is not at all sexual”

          Um, actually it is. That’s why you often hear “I have a man crush on (fill in the blank)” preceded by “I’m not gay, but…”

        7. Diachenko doesn’t follow definitions
          Diachenko makes his own definiitons
          and other have to go by Diachenko ‘s definitions.

          God says gay is wrong Diachenko says it’s okay

          Dictionaries don’t define, Diachenko defines!
          🙄

        8. “Diachenko doesn’t follow definitions
          Diachenko makes his own definiitons
          and other have to go by Diachenko ‘s definitions.
          God says gay is wrong Diachenko says it’s okay
          Dictionaries don’t define, Diachenko defines!”

          Didn’t you forget the last line?

          “Nanny nanny boo boo!”

          I certainly speak with more knowledge and experience in this area than you do. At least, I think I do…
          The vehemence of your protests makes me wonder. Beware the wide stance, John!

        9. Wow, I hit the nerve there didn’t I John. It got too close to home for you. You brought it up so, is that what happened in your past John, did someone “touch” you John. Is that why you need the constant validation John? Is that why you are the control freak you have shown us here John? I’m as serious as can be now John and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Find some help. That’s not a snide remark, I mean it. you are hurting so bad and you are repressing it to the point it is tearing you up inside. We see it coming out now in these posts. Please get some help. Let go of the guilt and shame John. Forgive yourself. Your cry has been heard and we are here to help you if you’ll go get some professional help.

        10. Beware the fires of Hell Di.

          My love for your soul requires me to be honest with you. You pretend not to care, and to be happy /”gay” but the truth doesn’t change.

        11. No wonder you like quoting perverted pornographic movies all the time.

          So pornography is another area you have trouble with John? I understand that is a common side effect for those who have been sexually abused. John you really need to seek some professional help. Hiding behind your superficial spiritual facade will only prolong your pain.

        12. “Beware the fires of Hell Di.
          My love for your soul requires me to be honest with you. You pretend not to care, and to be happy /”gay” but the truth doesn’t change.”

          You have no love for my soul, John. That much is pretty clear. And that’s fine. What passes for love in your little world, I can do without. And I pretend nothing. I am happy, I do care, and I will always seek the truth, even when those such as yourself obscure it with your blathering.

        13. Don,

          You sarcasm and insincerity is even worse than your past profanity.

          You gang up with a gay defender against me, and then mockingly pretend to “care”.

          I’ve changed my midn about you. I used to think you were just another biiter backslidden baptist who wen tthrough an ugly divorce, or had some bad experience where someone in authority over you let you down, but this goes beyond the pale.

          The only “nerve” is yours for being so disingenuous and depraved at the same time.

          There is no “constant validation” here to be had—only hatred, so again your armchair amatuer assesment is askew and abbhorent.

          You have had free reign here to bully and blowhard all the while criticizing Christianity and aligning yourself with the ungodly. Now you stalk me in an attempt to run me off like you did awhile back.

          But to sink to this?

          I thought better of you and I thought wrong.

          🙁

        14. and then mockingly pretend to “care”.

          No that was not mocking nor insincere. I mean it John. It is obvious that that hit home with you. Your control complex, your martyrdom, and your super spiritual sanctimony seem to be crys for help. Not once have we seen any compassion or Christlike love in your posts. Your passive agressive bullying of everyone who does not think like you… all just seems to point to some major trauma in your past. Your posts are fairly screaming for help. It just took this long for us to get close to the truth with you. I’m serious, please seek professional help.

        15. Oh no! It’s the “I thought better of you” attack! Don, whatever will you do: he has you now…
          I would hardly say that Don and I are ganging up on you (though I like the term “gay defender.” A new superhero perhaps?), as I’m sure he and I would disagree on a great many things, though that hasn’t stopped me from having a great deal of respect for him and what he says. Think of it more as being caught in a crossfire.

        16. Too late in the game to try that one Don.

          The only thing that hit home is that you really are this perverse.

          Your previous posts predate mine, and your Modus operandi is apparent. Your twisted tactics have possibly perverted you into believing you are in fact sincere, but I doubt you have fooled yourself that much.

          Your disdain has turned you into a stalker who seeks to “run me off’ with strange psycobabble , insinuations and awful allusions.

          You take statements I made toward you and bounce them back in an effort to “use my own weapons against me” etc. You attempt to turn statements I made toward you to be about me(the “touch” comments) You make crude and coarse remarks , then say “oh you must need help because you disagree with me” You try to analyze me using “birth order” 🙄

          I mean really, it’s almost impressive what with all the damaged psyche bitterness rearing it’s head in such weird ways, but then nah…it’s still just stalking.

          You are disturbed Don.

          And not just by me.

        17. You take statements I made toward you and bounce them back in an effort to “use my own weapons against me” etc. You attempt to turn statements I made toward you to be about me(the “touch” comments) You make crude and coarse remarks , then say “oh you must need help because you disagree with me” You try to analyze me using “birth order”

          Yet when you use the same tactic, how did you put it? Over on “Scientific Proof” November 1, 2010 at 12:41 am you stated:
          No Don, when I do it, I am accurate, when Di tries it, it is amateurish and inaccurate, making her/his case weaker, not stronger.

          That is a major disconnect John. You do one thing and then you get upset when you see it done to you. You claim that when you do it you are justified, that you are accurate. It’s all about control and you need that John. You have to have it.

          Your disdain has turned you into a stalker who seeks to “run me off’ with strange psycobabble , insinuations and awful allusions.

          See it’s the need for control, to know that you are “in charge” so you attack. Before you were able to do it out of a spirit of superiority but my posts have made you show your real colors.

          Your previous posts predate mine, and your Modus operandi is apparent. Your twisted tactics have possibly perverted you into believing you are in fact sincere, but I doubt you have fooled yourself that much.

          Then you make unsubstantiated accusations like this. John all I ask is you show the proof of your claims. Show me with examples what my Modus Operandi is in those “pre-dated posts.”
          Justify your accusations with concrete examples John.

          But you have gotten off subject John. You brought up all the “Man-crush” issues, and now you are running from it and changing the subject and deflecting away from yourself. I thought you were pathetic and mean-spirited (and you are) but now all I feel for you is pity. Get some help John. Please, for your family’s sake, please, please get some help.

        18. Stalker,

          I and my family are very, very happy and secure, and it is deplorable that you sink to such tactics in your attempts agitate.

          Whatever you were getting at about “contol” make no sense to me. How on earth can anyone “control” what happens in the comment section of a blog?
          Maybe you have such misguided motives, but I wouldn’t know where to begin, or want to!

          SFL , like Facebook, is something I keep “on” in the background while doing other things on two different computers at two different locations. I check in periodically to relieve the stress. (and I am ADHD)

          I comment when I see absurdity, or to agree with comments, or to attempt to shine some light in dark corners.

          Your personal attacks , interuptions and insults show utter contempt and disregard for any degree of civility.

          You have publicly and repeatedly expressed your hatred and disrespect of Pastors in general and American Christianity as a whole. I have obviously become the object of your aggression as you move further and further away from what is right.

          You use your own personal definitions to excuse your lowercasing of the Lord with your silly “g” instead of “G” and your “gid” justifications. (because all authority is bad, unless it is yours, right Don? You don’t submit yourself to anybody do you Don?)

          (Heb 13:17) “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”

          Doesn’t apply to you right?

          It’s really starting to look like you must really have a ”man crush” on me…
          though even after I gave you the definition of it, you keep trying to turn into something sexual, which quickly went from being stupid to being sick.

          Thus far I have humored you (and me) by applying the proverb
          (Pro 26:5) “Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit”

          to our discussions, but now

          (Pro 26:4) “Answer NOT a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.”

          Has become so much more applicable and appropriate.

          I don’t want to be like you Don.

          You “out fundied” me Don. You are way more judgmental and self righteous than I. You may have left the movement, but not the mentality. Hope you’re proud of yourself.
          Remember Rule #4

          You have however, served one great purpose by sheer accident, for which I am appreciative to Almighty God. These last few days I have been responding like you… “like unto” Pro 26:4 –and that is going to stop.

          Yes, you’ll still see me here and will likely try to stalk me some more by baiting me with your bullying, but I “wont get fooled again” Don.

          I will reply if , and when , it applies more to Prov 26:5 than Prov 26:4 ….. but I’m not going to let you pull me down a path like this again which is just a tremendous waste of time and an insult to both our intelligence.

          Now surely, you will get the “last word”, and probably recommend that I get “help” and feel pretty smug about it. You obviously can’t control yourself, and I sure don’t want to try and control you, so off you go then.

        19. The combination of narcisism, and lack of any and all dignity is off the charts on this one. I’ve. Rarely encountered someone this in denial. His congregation must be the epicenter of having checked their brains and self respect to show up and listen to this and listen to this a-hole berate them every week, and pretend he’s accomplishing anything for God. You are seriously disturbed, and really could use a lot of couch time with a therapist of either secular or Christian persuasion. They’d really have their work cut out for them. Barring an unforseen serious case of sanity breaking out in Johns fundy head, I’m practically begging everyone to ignore him. Be doesn’t deserve the opportunity to play victim, or humiliate himself.

        20. John, it appears that your most recent post was at 4:12am; I have to ask, is this good use of your time? How would your congregation react to their Preacher spending his time, ultimatly God’s time, responding to people of whom YOU think are rebellious, backslidden, hell bound, etc. and then defending yourself in a rather atagonist fashion? This is feeding SOMETHING. I mean, you bring up the “man crush” thing with Don (right?) and then end your riposte with “I’m not interested”…infering his is gay? Why would you do that? Is there someone you ARE interested in and it was just the wrong person? It’s this kind of ‘back and forth’ that makes me loose respect for so-called ‘Men-o-God’….not like my first Pastor…he was an older man then and was very respectable because he was’nt trying to be a celestial buzz-kill and when ye sat you down and counseled you, you took it because you KNEW he cared about you…but with YOU…well, you’re more interested in the snappy come-backs and diggs here and there…bottom line John, you’re not trustworthy. You chastise people on this board for being ________________, yet, you enjoy dishing it out in the most flagarant and fleshy manner because you know in your heart of hearts that you will never meet anyone here and therefore, it’s “safe”. Yeah, you may have ‘game’, but you have no authority or power. You’re family may be fine, but they have a fleshy dolt for a dad and Pastor.

        21. @Rob: You’re right. It’s just so hard to ignore him, because he’s so irritating. Maybe this place is ripe for trolls like him because we’re too tolerant to shun people. Or maybe because we’re foolish enough to hope we can change his mind like other people have changed ours.

          It’s long past time to give up on him, though. I used to love reading the comments here. There are so many people (you included) who have made me laugh and helped me see things from new perspectives, but I have a hard time keeping up anymore. It just takes too much time to step around all the troll droppings. 🙁

  10. I’d like to provide a little clarity.

    1. (for John)

    I understand that you see a connection between the verses you quoted and the discussed topic. Does it baffle you that someone could look at those two verses, see the mention of God opening a door, and yet not see the connection that you do?

    Consider the passages you have quoted.

    Colossians 4:3 records Paul’s request for prayer. He is asking that in spite of being in jail, that he would receive opportunities to spread the faith, and that he would communicate effectively.

    In this passage, open door = opportunity.

    Revelation 3:8 records God’s message to the church of Philadelphia. In response to the church’s faithfulness, God has given them rewards.

    In this passage, open door = a path of reward.

    Contrast this with the concern raised by the original post. The concern is that preachers are using “open door” catch phrases to justify poor decisions and desires by attributing them to God.

    In these catch phrases, open door = presumed divine revelation regarding a specific circumstance.

    I believe the concern is justified. What business does a Sola Scriptura adherent have with such a claim of divine authority when it cannot be drawn from Scripture?

    However, I have a deeper concern. Why bicker about the fruit when we can discuss the root? I believe the root issue in this conversation is that you lack skill in properly handling Scripture.

    I mean no offense, nor do I place the blame solely on your shoulders. Christianity today lacks teachers who can properly handle Scripture. You seem to be operating by a certain axiom that you received from your teachers. I think it goes something like this.

    “If a passage mentions a specifically important word or phrase, it is relevant to discussions about that specific word or phrase.”

    The problem with this axiom is that it is ALWAYS overruled when context dictates otherwise. If the contexts do not match, they do not belong in the same discussion. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the context of passages you quote matches the OP.

    In short, I am asking you to take the 2 Timothy 2:15 challenge. Are you properly using Scripture?

    1. SomeDewd

      Missed this before…it is good to see someone who actually read the verses.

      In short the two passages both use the phrase to refer to opportunities of ministry and Pauls belief that God had opened those doors to Paul and his companions. There is no other way to interrpert those verses.

      The abuse by some of the phrase does not negate the verses.

      1. The Colossians passage (singular) that is, though Paul uses it elsewhere also.

        The Phildadelphian statement alos has to do with Gopd’s guidance=”open door” and the reward is only as a result of onedience to such guidance, so that is synonomous.

        Thank you for giving me the oppurtunitty to show that both passgaes do indeed conform to 2 Tim 2:15

        1. Thanks for your response, John. I’m glad to see I didn’t get lost in the pile after all!

          Going back to the Colossians passage, I think that you are confused about what exactly is being emphasized.

          The passage isn’t about confidently naming and claiming open doors of spiritual guidance, it’s about the power of prayer. Specifically, that prayer may bring about opportunities even when physical circumstances make those opportunities extremely difficult. Please correct me if I’m missing something; it just seems to me that the verse doesn’t conflict with the OP.

          I find it hard to believe that pastors who repeatedly abuse both the Sacred Texts and/or their flocks would be the subjects of God’s direct unquestionable guidance.

          The point of the OP was to demonstrate that believers today are mistaking “divinely opened doors,” for what is merely convenient. Because of this thinking, Christianity has become full of neurotics. We’re all convinced that every single little damned thing is the micro-managing hand of God. We make false claims of absolute confidence that God is doing such and such. When our folly is made known, we arrogantly deny that our failures are failures. We smugly wrap it up in, “I’m waiting on God’s timing to open the door.”

          Is it that hard to admit that we could be wrong or made a mistake?

  11. #2 (for everyone else)

    Don’t assume that people can see things from your perspective. Usually, they don’t or can’t for a variety of reasons. The responsibility is mostly on you to successfully produce understanding in the person with which you wish to communicate.

    1. Hi, SomeDewd!

      Actually, #2 was one of the first things that helped pave the way out of Fundyland for me. Understanding that not everyone saw the world the same way made me determined to start learning how other people thought. from there, I would be able to find ways to witness or otherwise persuade them of what was right. *laughs at own youthful naivete* Whoa, talk about unexpected results! Instead, once I learned to understand where others came from, I also understood that they had valid points, valid concerns, and even answers to questions I had but wasn’t free to ask. It just snowballed from there.

  12. sigh
    I’m getting flashbacks of teaching grade school! Regardless of who is right or wrong, I’d make both Johnny and Donnie stay in from recess and copy Philippians 2:1-3 five times and write an essay on how this applies to the issue of respect. The door to the playground is closed for you until then, boys.
    Sorry, Darrell, I didn’t mean to usurp any authority, here. Just dreaming about what I’d like to do.

  13. The “insult, insult,insult…. wink, wink, it was just a joke (LOL)” format is mentioned in the Bible.

    Proverbs 26:18-19 (NIV)

    18 Like a maniac shooting
    flaming arrows of death
    19 is one who deceives their neighbor
    and says, “I was only joking!”

    And for the benefit of John, who hates the NIV, here is the King Jimmy version.

    18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death,

    19 So is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?

    1. He did for me. Went to a state college with a scholarship. I still had to take out some loans, but my total loans for my five years at college equals one year of tuition at BJU (where my sibling is getting into massive amounts of debt and telling me that “God will provide”).

      And my school is accredited. 😎

    2. He does. God opened the door to an accredited state university in the form of a full-ride academic scholarship for my son. The problem is the fundy relatives just don’t don’t see it as God’s open door; they would rather see it as Satan’s slippery slope.

      1. God “opened the door” for me to go to a secular, accredited university for engineering through the provision of sufficient financial aid that I was able to graduate debt-free. Of course, this provision didn’t exactly fall from the sky; with my mother’s patient and enduring help, I was able to apply for and receive a number of scholarships and grants. (God opens the door, but we have to walk through it?)

        Oh, and the fundies in our lives at the time were evidently smart enough to realize that engineering was best studied at a proper school – or maybe they just didn’t know that PCC had “engineering” too! 🙄

  14. John’s Mom? John’s Mom? Seriously? He went crying to Mommy?

    John–I’m not going to sugarcoat it. You are a spiteful, hateful jerk, just like every other IFB pastor I’ve ever seen. You’re like a whiny five-year-old that isn’t getting his way. You are the fly in the ointment, the poop in the brownies, the bad apple in the bin, and I’d go on but if you don’t get the idea by now you’re not as smart as you think you are.

    Go crying to Mommy with that one.

    1. I do have to admit: Fundamentalist moms really can be tigers when someone outside their church messes with their kids!

      (Unfortunately, if someone inside the church does the same, it’s much more iffy. I was lucky my mom practically took off the pastor’s brother’s head for me over some of his power-tripping. Some others were not so lucky.)

  15. haha yes! The other day someone came up to me and we were talking about work. He’s “looking” for a new job. I asked what he was doing to find another job. But he just said, “It’s all in God’s hands, just trusting him you know?” Sigh…

    nicodemusatnite.blogspot.com

  16. Maybe its because I’ve been so long out of fundamentalism but I have to confess that I can’t understand a thing John is saying. ❓

    I do not believe anyone is attacking the gospel or Jesus Christ here. I’m just not seeing it. Not even from the atheists.

    They are mocking the behavior of certain individuals. Individuals who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ.

    They are doing is spotlighting the inconsistencies and strange behavior of some fundamentalists. The power control, the weirdness, the strange standards, the unworkable separation stance that they insist on and the defensive behavior when these things are brought forward.

    Instead of reaching out with anger how about looking inward to see if any of these things are true. If you are not a power hungry person who insists on enforcing unworkable standards on insecure followers then why react at all unless you see yourself in here somewhere. If so that’s between you and God.

  17. OK, I promised Johnny I wouldn’t write again, so this is it. (Sorry Johnny I promise I won’t interupt your bloggings again – I know how much you always hated it when I interupted your private time). You all are just sooo mean! That Donny character is accusing my little man of questionable activity that my KJV says cannot even be mentioned in the light. Just because it was late at night (and technically not light out) doesn’t give you liberty to talk about what my son does behind closed doors. It was our policy when he was in our home to give him his privacy. He was a sensitive boy that needed a lot of time in his room alone. We KNOW he was studying his KJV Bible! He was always reading it for hours and hours at a time. Even in the bathroom he would spend so much time just reading. So you are dealing with a very intelligent young man, and it is just lucky for you that he has not decided to use his powerful debating skills to make you look foolish! I’m proud of you son. I know you could have come up with some points that would have really “zinged” them, but you were just being patient and biding your time. OK, I had to get my two cents in, because when they were accusing you of being a homo-you-know-what I had to step in. They don’t know what they’re talking about, and I hope you’re not upset at what they are saying. I don’t think any of them know you or your past, and I certainly haven’t told anyone. So keep up the good work; I’m proud of all your posts! You are my little blessing! Love you, hun!

        1. Actually, I didn’t.

          As I have said before, Darrell started this with posting avideo form my Church , then proceeded to post asermon of mine that mocked me.

          Alos, even gunfughters didn’t shoot other gunfighters family members.

        2. John, he posts videos of TONS of fundies/pastors/etc. Of all of them, you are the only one who has decided to step deeply into the fray. Yeah, he found a video that was circulating on the Internet and posted it. If you don’t want it online and open to discussion/jokes/etc. then don’t put it online. And that goes for non-religious matter. Entire websites have been created to discuss what people have posted on the Internet. (www.failbook.org and http://www.failblog.org)

        3. Yes, you did start this John. From the moment you rode into SFL you were guns-a-blazin’ at Bassenco. All Darrell did was shine the spot light on you as you reloaded.

        4. Okee Dokee, Johnnie, you were right, you were right! I shouldn’t have strayed out of the kitchen. I just truly felt so bad for you. All those angry words and those nasty liberals were making you sound like a little toddler again (oh how I miss those days – you in your sweet little short pants and tie just a pounding on your cardboard box pulpit!!) Anyhoo – forgive a proud momma! And I promise to not interrupt your important missionary efforts here any more. You truly are doing the precious Lord and Saviours work here – I saw you made a convert a little while ago- DJP (Dave!!) I do hope he comes to church Sunday!

          We can talk anytime just pick up your phone and call once in a while! That way I won’t have to try to reach you on this weird cooking site. Who ever heard of stuffing that only fundies like anyway? If it’s good stuffing I’d think anyone would enjoy it – though your grandma makes it a little dry for my taste. Bye now- and love you, Hun!

        5. It took awhile but the first shots were fired on September 18, 2010 at 5:04am on the “War Stories by Evangelist Tom Farrell”

        6. 🙄

          Don

          Before I RESPONDED to SFL , the shot was fired BY SFL

          I didn’t post anti Darrell comments about videos/audio etc. on a website, he posted negative comments about my Pastor(s) and me personaly, fully aware that he was insulting me publically.

          The first shot was fired by Darrell. I could not have fired back if SFL didn’t exist. It was here first, and took shots first.

          Spin as you will, there is no logical, spiritual or sensible way to deny this.

        7. Actually, if you hadn’t said such silly things in a “sermon” and allowed said sermon to be posted on the internet for others to hear, and if those preachers that you so admire had been expounding the Bible instead of leading the congregation in stupid ditties, Darrell wouldn’t have had anything to post that so got your dander up. So the original smoking gun is in your hand, John. No way around it.

        8. See? 😀

          Logic loop alert!

          If an evolutionist took aim at said video, saying we fired a shot at them, then yes, that could be construed as true-

          ….but Darrell jumped in and started firing in a fight that wasn’t his. THEN added to it by shooting at me directly in a sermon that in no way was aimed at him.

          The harder you try to avoid the obvious, the more oblivious you become to the fact that you only dig yourself deeper into denial.

          I have repeatedly apologized here for mistakes I have made, but when it comes to who “started it” there is no logical loop in existance that does anything but hang anyone who denies this.

          Have a good night enjoying a historical night of referendum!

        9. “The harder you try to avoid the obvious, the more oblivious you become to the fact that you only dig yourself deeper into denial.”

          Which is why the mud you keep slinging is having a harder and harder time making it out of the pit in which you are shoveling. My guess is that you will see China very soon…

        10. “Have a good night enjoying a historical night of referendum!”

          I voted for people in both parties, so it works for me. Anyway, between 1994 and 2002, the Republicans rode the referendum wave and the pundits said there almost no way the Democrats would rise again. Then between 2006 and 2008, that was reversed. And now the Repubs are on the rise again. It’s less a referendum than people are frustrated and lash out at the only ones they can: the incumbents. Fact is, both parties are corrupt and interested in little else than being re-elected each cycle. Very few truly useful people in our government. And it probably won’t change much. Sadly…

      1. Nope. That is definitely not the same thing as a “yo momma” joke. Not even close, really. This is an example of a “yo momma” joke:

        “Dude, that couch is way too heavy to lift.”
        “Yo momma is too heavy to lift.”

        My fiancee’s friends are the kings of “yo momma” jokes.

        1. Yo mamma is so fat, when she walks across the floor, the radio skips.

          “I just retain water”
          “So does the Hoover Dam”

          (paraphrase of a joke I first heard from Jeff Foxworthy)

  18. Gah, this is such a pet peeve of mine! Throwing the God card out there to justify anything and everything.
    Disclaimer: yes, some times it is God legitimately opening/closing a door. No one is denying that.

    But so many times fundy preachers misuse it. It is the misuses of Christianity that we have an issue with, not the thing itself.

    And it won’t do any good, but I have to. “You have publicly and repeatedly expressed your hatred and disrespect of Pastors in general and American Christianity as a whole.”
    Not really. Just the ones that use God and the Bible to further their agendas. The ones that misinterpret what the Bible says. Add their own rules to the Bible. Make Christianity look like a rule book. Put God in a box and exalt the m-o-g.

    Whoa John, you took it to a whole new level =/ Somebody’s angwy. What, did Darrell post one of your sermons in a former post and you found out? And got mad? It’s understandable: no one wants to be criticized.

    But as a collective whole we’ve heard every argument the fundies throw out. And evidently have gotten very good at counter-attack. Don’t come on here trying to teach us with a holier-than-thou attitude. Logical discussions will get you much farther.
    And cut out the side sarcastic comments: “Wow. Darrell admitted I was right. Cool :cool:” “Hey, I agree totally with Don here!(now he probably wants to change his mind)” It adds nothing to the discussion….

  19. Back to the idea of waiting for God to open a door, has anyone else read “Just Do Something”? This is the book that helped me see the need to stop waiting for a sign to leave Fundyism and to just leave.

    1. That is an excellent book, life changing even. I love his lightly humorous, slightly sarcastic tone, and his message about trusting a sovereign God is really refreshing.

  20. To the readers of SFL:
    Folks, I appologize for the slug-fest that took place here last night. I wish it could have been done somewhere else. I apologize for taking up so much or all of your time reading about it and so much of a really insightful SFL post with where I had drawn a line in the sand and made my stand. (not that it did any good)
    The Lord knows and the Lord will Judge. I stand before God and you readers with a clear conscience and a heavy heart. I have made my stand on SFL against the IFB movement, I have made my stand against the Americanized perversion of how we “do” church, but this is the first time I have ever made a personal stand against another SFL reader. Like many of you that has taken the fun out of me.
    To the readership of SFL (save one)I appologize for the fray.
    PS.I will keep my commenting to a minimum in order to not attract a distraction.
    Don

        1. I’ll leave it at a hand-shake so a certain someone doesn’t get the wrong idea. 😀

          Don, while I think we have all come to the place where we are done feeding the troll, I appreciate so much that you were willing to draw the line and engage in the slugfest for a little while. For what it’s worth, I have a great admiration and respect for you, for what you choose to post, and for the God you have faithfully represented. No apology is necessary for me.

        2. UpTown I appreciate that. *hugs* in return.

          Diachenko I’m secure in my sexuality so you get a hug as well. What you just said made it all worth it. Thank you. I would break bread with you anytime my friend.

        3. “I would break bread with you anytime my friend.”

          Considering that my own family will not, that means a lot to me. Thank you.

        4. Diachenko, are you serious? You’re family’s turned their back on you? That breaks my heart. Look this may sound silly and I’m sure you’ve got friends to be with, but I’m a Greenvillian as well and my home is open to you for Thanksgiving. I’ve always enjoyed your posts and you have a lot of class. 😀

        5. Wow, I really appreciate the invite. My partner’s family is much more accepting, and we usually spend the holidays with them, so I think I’m covered. Since you’re from here too, though, I’d love to meet you sometime. Kind and reasonable people are too few and far between nowadays!

      1. I agree. No apology required. Watching you say what we were all thinking felt soooo goood. That’s the kind of therapy some of us need right now.

        The enormity of the love of Christ has been huge on my mind lately, and the more joy I find in it, the more angry I am that there are people like that guy in the world hurting people and turning them away from grace.

        “I stand before God and you readers with a clear conscience and a heavy heart.” And for what it’s worth, I’d rather be standing next to you (you too, Diachenko).

        1. I am truly humbled by your words Pita. Mere words and emoticons cannot express what your sentiments mean to my heart. Thank you.

    1. I enjoy your comments. Please do not let the “I must respond to every single perceived attack on the MOG/Fundamentals” Troll keep you from hanging around.

      I feel weird giving you a cyber-hug, so I heartily extend a cyper-handshake of friendship. 😉

    2. Don – A lot of us have been “sucked in”. Do not give up commenting because of it.
      I know after a few exchanges I had with you know who, I asked myself if I went over the line and worried how other SFL readers would react to some of what I wrote. Needless to say I worried for nothing.

      However, I believe george has some apologizing to do 😆

      1. John,

        Thanks for all your posting here. Based on what I see in you, I’ve decided to return to Fundamentalism. In your posts, I see all the attributes of Christlikeness. God’s grace, His compassion, His kindness all shine through.

        I mean, whenever Christ saw a person in pain or having difficulty in life, He was right there to call that person out for bringing it on themselves. When confronting those who disagreed with Him, Jesus was always quick to cast aspersions on their sexuality. Jesus always spread the good news of the Gospel by insulting those who were different than Him.

        I appreciate you showing me the way back in to the movement and for demonstrating everything I’ve been missing out on by staying away.

        Dave

        1. I give him the benefit of the doubt. I take him at his word on this.

          He addressed it to “To the readers of SFL” of which I am one.

        2. (Eph 4:32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

        3. So, um, John. Have you actually read that verse? Ever meditated on its meaning? Do you live it in your actions? Do the fruits of the Spirit show forth when you apply this verse to your actions?

        4. Yes DJP that’s why I can , and have, forgiven Don.

          He apologized, I accepted.

          I make mistakes and sin everyday, and need the grace of God just like all of us.

          Thanks for the reminder.

          (Eph 5:9-11) “(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth😉 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
          And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

        5. I see that you added another verse in for discussion. Going back to the first one you brought up, my question wasn’t so much whether you were capable of forgiving Don, but whether you realized that you had something to apologize for or whether you were going to follow through with that apology.

          You haven’t been living here in kindness or acting tenderhearted, as the verse requires. I’m guessing that you don’t see things from this perspective, but in that case your second verse applies and you should have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of our darkness.

          Just a thought, though. The more courageous person is the one who apologizes and not the one who forgives. You can thank Don for setting the Christian example for you to follow.

        6. Obviously no “fellowship” going on ! 😉

          (So what if I apologize for forgiving?)

          Interesting analogy you imagine, since God forgives us -only after we apologize.

          Using your logic, that makes the ofender better than the offended.
          😯

        7. John so this is all in retaliation for the “I’m No Kin to the Monkey” post?
          It’s posted on YouTube and the replies on there were more personal and abrasive than SFL. So this has all been a personal vendetta.

          GOH: I’m No Kin To The Monkey
          September 14th, 2010

          John’s first post:
          John September 18, 2010 at 4:36 am
          So sad to see such spiritual sickness on this site.
          You were all exposed to truth and have rejected it.
          May God open your sin hardened hearts.
          (2 Peter 2:20-22) “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
          For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
          But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
          So sad to see such spiritual sickness on this site was the actual first shot.
          Replied to by
          -Scorpio
          -LMcC
          -Mark Rosedale
          -Don
          -Pastor’s wife

          The second attack took place almost 30 minutes later on War Stories With Evangelist Tom Farrell

          John September 18, 2010 at 5:04 am
          So this is where Bassenco is hanging out lately!
          Wow-some people really turn bitterness into a hobby/career don’t they?
          Amazing.
          No one would even come close to allowing Jason to say something nice about Farrell.
          The ugly truth always rises to the surface.
          Slander slinging by the bitter
          (Eph 4:31-32) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

          FTR: I did not apologize to you John. You are the one person (you did read the “save one” part didn’t you?) the one person I did not and have not apologized to. If your “forgiveness” gives you comfort that’s all on you. But the fact remains you came on here as a vigilante out for revenge, to set this site straight. Pitiful… pathetic… but pitiful.

        8. “I shoot back. End of story.”

          If all this has been you shooting back, you need better aim, better ammo, and a better gun.

        9. Needed another attention fix John? Needed some self justification? Your Ego need some self inflation before Wednesday’s services?
          Do you need me to help you with your arguments again? Can’t play tonight though I’m sorry, My vacation ended yesterday and I have a real job to go to tomorrow. But feel free to rant all night.

        10. John said: Eye of the beholder–one gun verses an army.
          “Remember The Alamo!”

          Hmm, ok. Of course, everyone in the Alamo was killed by that army, so perhaps that isn’t the best analogy you want to use.

        11. It’s not about “winning” Di

          (1 Cor 15:31) “I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.”

        12. When I first saw “Troll Food” I instantly saw in my mind a bunch of mashed hobbits in a can with the label, “Instant Troll Food, just add water”.

          My LOTR humor kicking in. 😉

        13. John said:

          “Obviously no “fellowship” going on !

          (So what if I apologize for forgiving?)

          Interesting analogy you imagine, since God forgives us -only after we apologize.

          Using your logic, that makes the ofender better than the offended.”

          Nice how you ignored the actual point I was making. It’s unfortunate that you find it necessary to come to a website and pick at scabs covering old wounds. If nothing else, you’ve convinced me that you’re a common Internet troll rather than than just misguided.

          It’s interesting that you changed my analogy from courageous to better, which implies moral superiority. Additionally, you changed the analogy from a discussion about two human beings interacting with each other to an issue between a man and God, which is obviously completely different.

  21. Back to the topic at hand …

    I remember often being scared when I was younger that God had just one right path for me, and that if I took a wrong turn somewhere, I was s**t outta luck – forever. Then I remembered the words of a very wise youth minister from when I was in sixth grade: “If God wants you to do something, it will be impossible to do anything else.” It was a great relief to me to realize that God maybe doesn’t much care what car I drive or what cereal I eat for breakfast … or even that there may be more than one man I could marry (not at the same time, you know what I mean!) or more than one job I could serve God in. And I’ve found that during those times in life where I’ve been running against God’s will, I’ve run straight into a brick wall – it’s not a subtle signal that God sends.

    I wish I could go back in time and tell my younger self that God is FOR us, not AGAINST us, and that God even works with our mistakes and missteps … and that when God does want to speak to us, it will be loud and clear!

    1. “God is FOR us, not AGAINST us, and that God even works with our mistakes and missteps … and that when God does want to speak to us, it will be loud and clear!” Yes! It’s so amazing how God can take our blunders and make everything work out for our good anyway.

    1. I’m actually a woman. The dreadlocks in my gravatar belong to my favorite music artist and since you can’t see his face and the pic belongs to me because I’m the one who took it at a concert I use it instead of one of me. Actually even though I’m only 27 you’d probably be surprised at just how hardened I’ve become. My home, church, and school were all of the more crazy fundy variety. I’ve learned who Christ really is now since I got out and it’s left me entirely impatient for this kind of nonsense.

      I just couldn’t handle the over dramatic indignation. I had actually been to his website before he started posting here. I don’t remember how I got there I just remembered seeing his family’s names on there and eventually I figured out that he was from the same church. I don’t see the point in getting upset that your wife’s actual name was used. If you don’t want it to be found, don’t publish it on the internet.

      1. Or you could’ve been referring to the pastor as being hardened and not me for posting the link…I was nervous that it was overly mean so I thought I’d explain and then I realized a few minutes later that you may have been talking about him, so if you meant him, oops ❗ 😮

        1. Sorry, alm! 😳 I was talking about him. He’s not even at the age yet where things really get interesting. I’m watching so many friends now, just a few years older than him, growing and changing in incredible ways and experiencing new-found freedoms. It’s too early to be so hard-hearted…. if indeed there is ever a right time to be that way. Sad.

          AFA you saying you are hardened: You’ll soften back up with time out of Fundamentalism, although the impatience with the Fundy brand of twisted doctrine and practice will remain.

        2. Yep, the impatience with fundies remains. In fact, anyone that even begins to mention obedience or serving God gets me all tense, because I used to dread what was coming – illustrations about toilets, holding up great men of God and telling us we aren’t that good, all that works sanctification stuff.

          I really appreciated Oswald Chambers devotion two days ago (November 1st or 2nd I think) about Obedience. It was very beautiful.

        3. I really like Oswald Chambers. His devotions were extremely soothing and convicting (but in a good way, not a fundie way.)

      2. I’m 10 years older than you alm517 and was hardened as you are when I left the fundamentalism I was in to go a Reformed/more liberal direction.

        I became bitter and “burnt out” on all the decisionism etc. only to see that throwing the baby out with the bathwater was not the answer. The man made excesses and personality worship of fundamentalism was/is way worse in Reformed Theology , and the more liberal groups than that just throw out scripture almost if not altogether.

        THe more I studied scripture, the more convinced I was that reformed theology was severly lacking in ways even worse that what I had left (ignoring scripture in ignorance is one thing, twisting it and changing it is another)

        I decided that reformation from the inside was the right way, and the IFB affilitation is the closest I can find to scriptural, warts and all.

        As for my wife being brought up…..she is innocent and I never gave my identity here, Darrell unethically did.
        It would be equally wrong for me to bring up family members of any poster here.

        It is supposed to be about the issues , not the persons. To turn into into personal attacks , mocking ones mother retc. is more than just childish, it is unChristian and caustic.

        To not see this as so, is truly shocking.

        1. “THe more I studied scripture, the more convinced I was that reformed theology was severly lacking in ways even worse that what I had left (ignoring scripture in ignorance is one thing, twisting it and changing it is another)

          I decided that reformation from the inside was the right way, and the IFB affilitation is the closest I can find to scriptural, warts and all.”

          Change that to IFB theology and that is exactly why I left IFB (FYI I’m not exactly reformed either). And this is probably the reason you are running into such a brick wall here, John. See we’ve all figured out that the sickness is within. It is endemic. The craziness that is exposed on this site is endemic of the entire movement. It is so fundamental (pun intended) that there is no fixing it from within…or to do so would render a finished product so unlike the original as to not be the original. Fixed IFB…or IFB without the problems is no longer IFB. We know that…but you don’t.

          We’ve all left IFB and made our peace with that decision. The more you talk the more convinced we are we’ve made the right decision. Looking back at your comments you aren’t so different from Steven Anderson or Shaap. The difference is they don’t waste their time arguing on this site.

          Anyway if Darell truly wronged you then contact him. Your beaf is with him not us. Do the biblical thing and take it up personally with him.

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