110 thoughts on “By Request: Keith Gomez”

  1. @Jessica there’s no explaining the rules @ FU’s! 🙂 There’s only the enforcers and the rest of society (including probably 60% of the student population). You’d think the % would be higher, but they all find ways of attracting people who love being enforcers.

  2. Over critical. I learned to be this way under Fundy teachings. It’s not just the pastor. Still unwrapping the Fundy way of thinking. I’m getting better but have a long way to go. I suspect that it is more attitude than disagreement. Intellectual disagreement and discussion are good. A negative bias towards or viewing as ignorant or stupid those with whom you disagree is bad.
    Sometimes I feel the attitude and bias start and have to deal with it.

  3. @Good Grief
    Either we accept that we are dead in our sin nature, and unable and unwilling to seek after God as the scripture tells us, or we are co-saviors in our own salvation. It basically is a question of who God is and how do we see God. Is he Almighty? or is he subject to our wills and decisions?

    Either God is sovereign in whom He elects for salvation or God is subject to the whims of his creation. If we say that God looked down the corridors of time and saw who would choose Him then God is not sovereign, for at that point He is subject to both time and the wills of men.
    That’s not the God as revealed in scripture. This idea of some milktoast Jesus knocking at the door of your heart wanting to come in is pathetic. He is not some beggar who needs to ask permission of His creation to do anything. He conquered Death, Hell and the Grave! Read the Lord’s Prayer in John 17. He is God Almighty! Not some door to door salesman or beggar looking for a handout. God is subject to NOTHING but Himself and His nature. He is self existing.

    We place ourselves on the same level as God when we say that we choose him. To say that is contrary to scripture. We can do nothing outside of a work of Grace in our hearts. And what kind of cruel game would a god be playing to say, “I’m going to bring you to the tipping point and then you will have to choose.”? How utterly cruel! Like God we can only do what our nature allows us to do. We can do nothing outside that nature. We are born with a sin nature and we can do nothing good. Nothing. Even our best is filthy rags before God. Oh, relatively speaking we may be better or worse compared to those around us but everthing we do is sin polluted and putrid before God. So how cruel and sadistic a god would be to bring you to a point of decision and say, “Ok, the ball is in your court. Make your decision.” Unless the work of grace was done in your heart you are still operating under the old nature and even a positive “decision” at that point is unacceptable to God.

    Yet that is the way salvation is preached in the IFB cult. Like Darrell said, all that produces is Altar Atheletes who get saved again and again and again, always trying to make sure “they” get it right.

    So how are we saved? It is a gift of Grace that God gives us through faith, and even that faith has to be given to us by God… and try to deny it as the fundys may, it was settled before the foundation of the world.

    1. God made a plan for mankind. He sent His Son, Jesus to die on the cross for every single person on our planet. 1 John 2:2 “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” Its not just for this few over here in the corner of Idaho, He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, that even includes California. I could have used hundreds of other verses to demonstrate this exact same message. Romans 10:13 teache that “Everyone that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” Acts 2:21 “And everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” These are just a couple of verses and again I could have chosen a hundred other verses that say the same. So where are we so far, based on the Word of God not any church father, Billy Graham or John Piper we KNOW that Jesus came to planet earth to seek and to save that which was lost and that he died for every single person that breathes air on this planet – This has nothing to do with what I think. We also know that we must “DO” something, and just what is it that we must do? We must “CALL” upon the Lord. We know that God has given every man the measure of faith (Romans 12:3)So we are completely w/out excuse. If you or I end up in hell its not because a wrathful God decided that’s where you belong, it will be because you or I rejected our Sovereign God’s plainly stated plan of salvation.

      Our God is Sovereign – the idea that because God made a salvation plan for mankind and we choose to accept or reject his plan does not for one moment diminish his sovereignity. God gave Adam and Eve a choice as well, and they chose to disobey God, had they not chosen sin, we would not be having this conversation. Romans 1:16 “I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.” What is the gospel? It is the power of God, well, please tell me who is this power for – well its for everyone who believes. The gospel is for everyone!

      The plan of salvation does not diminish God’s sovereingity at all, I wasn’t a co-saviour, no,no, no, I responded to a Sovereign God’s plan for mankind, as I have briefly outlined above and I was wondrously and gloriously saved, He provided the way, He did all the heavy lifting, He did all the planning, He did all the suffering and all I did was call on Him, just as the entire new testament teaches.

      Jesus said, John 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

  4. @Don

    So… everyone is not then eligible for salvation – so how did God decide?

    Did God really choose people to go to hell?

    If God chose, why didn’t he choose everyone to go to Heaven?

    And if he did just choose certain people, why did he make many statements, such as “whosoever” which literally means everyone and anyone.

    Is that just a false hope that could be classified as a “cruel and sadistic game” in the same sense that you mentioned above?

    Not being a problem causer or trying to be a a jerk, just asking.

  5. I’ll start with the second question first. If God did nothing, and never made a way for salvation where would everyone who has ever lived, who is alive today, and who will ever be born and live … where would they go when they die? Why would they go there? Would they deserve to go there? So can we agree that all we deserve is hell? There are no good people being sent to hell… because there are no good people. (Scripture plainly states that much.)

    Questions 1 and 3 are beyond man’s ability to answer. To give an answer for either of these would require God alone to answer. But think on the wonderful gift of Grace He gives to those whom He has chosen, those who He has given to His son!

    Question/statement #4 is a broad assumption. Do the “whosoevers” refer to all people in all times in all places? A universal blanket statement? (here is Strong’s definition of “pas” or whosoever: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV )

    Again it comes down to how we view God. When I was a fundy I thought I had a high view of God but now I see that I perceived God for Who He is about as much as a spoon perceives the taste of food. That is the “otherness” of God. We cannot limit God to our terms and make him in our image… no, He is Almighty God. He spoke and the universe came into being and by the might of his power it stands fast. Billions (we speak in those terms but we cannot wrap our minds around amounts of things that are measured in Billions) of stars and billions of galaxies and God knows them all by name. He had determined the very number of hairs on our heads.

    Yet, He requires nothing outside of Himself to exist. We require air, food, warmth, companionship…. God requires none of these. All that He has created is for His Glory and how He chooses to make use of His creations is according to His will and good pleasure.

    Fundies have made Him out to be some sort of cosmic taskmaster who is ready to strike you down with a bolt out of the blue if you get out of line and don’t follow the rules. There are others who have made him out to be some old grandfatherly type who is worried people won’t choose him to be their god. He is neither, He is God Almighty who has planned and purposed all He has instore for His creation that will bring maximum Glory to Himself.

    Question # 5 the way it is phrased makes the presentation of the Gospel a “false hope.” I’m sure you did not intend that. The presentation of the Gospel is either sweet smelling and leads to life…. or it is the smell of death. Those who hear and are not converted by God’s work of Grace will be judged by their natural hatred of God and the things of God. (Remember there are no good people) Even Pharoah was used to glorify the Greatness of God, and that was through his being hardened by God and God used him as a vessel of distruction and wickedness…. why? It pleased the Lord to do so, and in His plan and purpose He got maximum Glory from it. For those that hear and are converted it is a gift of Grace that comes to us by faith.

    It always comes back to who God is. What is His nature? So how do we perceive God? Is he waiting on His creation to do something so he can react? Or is He Omnipotent, Omniscient, omnipresent, omni-benevolent? Is he a “tame” god or is he the Almighty?

    I am not trying to be a jerk either. I can only answer your questions based on a holy, just, righteous, Almighty Creator God who is Sovereign over all of His creation. And not the weak miltoast god who is worrying and fretting outside the “door” of his creation’s heart begging to be “let” in.

    1. I have stated very plainly my beliefs regarding salvation based on my understanding of the Word of God,(above) but it occurs to me that if Don’s “way” is correct, I could be in serious trouble, because I don’t recognize my God at all in the description that Don provides. I don’t know that God.

  6. @Good Grief
    I have the same questions. Thank you for asking them. Thanks to folks on SFL, like Don with his excellent post, I am beginning to get a clearer understanding and am making this my current “devo” study. (BTW, @Don, I am copying your post onto my study page.) I grapple with that same “why only some” concept. I have to keep in mind that no one at all deserves to be saved.

    I was thinking about this last night and wondered, if God has chosen some to be saved, then why are there vast regions of the world where there seem to be very few of the chosen, like “darkest Africa” and the jungles of South America? So missionaries go there, spread the gospel and people get saved. Would they have been saved anyhow?

    Sorry to get so serious. Y’all seem so good with these answers and I’m not going to get them anywhere else.

  7. The presentation of the Gospel is either sweet smelling and leads to life…. or it is the smell of death. Those who hear and are not converted by God’s work of Grace will be judged by their natural hatred of God and the things of God.

    Ok, so you present the gospel. I guess my biggest question is..

    How do YOU present the gospel? How does it lead to life or not lead to life?

    if someone does not “call upon the name of the Lord” (Rom. 10:13) – how are the saved?

    How or why do you bother if God has already chosen?

    So, if you meet someone on the street, do you offer them the gospel? If so, then what?

    I appreciate your responses.

  8. @Kate – Your Welcome? I don’t necessarily agree with everything said here and we may ultimately agree to disagree, but it is an interesting discussion to say the least. I’m asking honest questions, interested in this point of view.

  9. @Good Grief – I’m where you are on this. In googling around researching this I ran across a website called ePRODIGALS featuring Dr. Ken Bailey who lived in the Middle East for 40 years. I have never heard of this man before; I just stumbled across him. He gives insights into the parables of the Lost Sheep, the Lost Coin, and the Prodigal Son as seen in the cultural setting of when they were first uttered by Jesus. This has really helped me get a handle on this concept that we are totally helpless in having anything to do with our salvation. AND I realize I have only ever heard these parables in sermons given from an American/European cultural viewpoint. Fundies don’t seem to care about digging quite that deep.

  10. @Good Grief
    Before I answer, may I make an observation? Thank you, and please, I mean no offense but your questions are fundy loaded. One: you assume that “Doctrines of Grace” folks don’t evangelize and share the gospel. Two: you require evangelistic efforts to consummate in a decision in order to be considered successful. Those are just a couple of observations and you can have them free of charge. 🙂

    Now to answer your questions as best I can:
    Contrary to fundy dogma, easy-believeism and HAC patented Stoplight (a.k.a. Hit-n-run) evangelism, nowhere in scripture is it commanded or even hinted at that we should close the deal, make the sale, get a decision, have them pray a prayer or any other such foolishness. The Lord commands us in scripture to be witnesses and testify to the truth of the person and finished work of Jesus Christ. We are to make disciples of those whom the Lord converts.

    Here is an example to ponder. The Rich young ruler is a fundy favorite to reference and say, “a-ha! Look, see, it is about the individual’s choice.” I say, “Au contraire mon ami.” Let’s look at the story again… the whole story.
    “And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” 24And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” 27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

    Now, the rich man went away. He chose what we all would choose to do in our natural state. He rejected God and the things of God because he cannot act outside of his sin nature. Jesus then says, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” Then Jesus says it again, knowing the heart of mankind and knowing that we are bound by our sin nature, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” Then comes the $64,000 question, “Then who can be saved?” The answer takes away the man centered attempt at salvation, it takes away the co-savior crutch that man grasps for in order to justify himself and it puts the entire salvation process in God’s hands: “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” All things are possible with God… not man, or man’s sin polluted efforts… but with God.

    You ask “how” I present the Gospel. Just like I am doing here, in conversation, giving reason for the hope that is in me. No formulas, no gimmicks, no gotta’ get them to the point of decision so they will say the sinner’s prayer. The Lord only tells us to be witnesses, and persuade people with the truth, we cannot save anybody anyway. Salvation is totally in God’s hands. I am only responsible for being a witness; the results are between God and the hearer. That was one of the most liberating moments in my Christian life when I realized to be a successful witness did not mean I had to close the deal or make the sale. I am to be faithful in what God has commanded me to do, share the Gospel, be a witness and testify to the Truth. The results are God’s responsibility for “He” adds daily those who are being saved.
    You quote Romans 10:13, so I will ask: If we are dead in our sins, and scripture says there are none good, no not one, (Psalm 14:2-4) Romans 3:9-12, “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

    Now my question is, how can anyone in this condition call upon the name of the Lord, unless a work of Grace is done in his or her heart? Look at the entire thought in Romans 3: 21-25. See what he says in verses 23 -25: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.

    I’ll close tonight with the “Calvin Question.”
    Why witness if God has already chosen? That is the simplest of all to answer. (1) We are commanded: “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.” That is our commission as believers. (2) If I had the mind of God and knew who God was saving then I would be tempted to only witness to those I would be ‘successful” with. But that is not what God said to do. He said, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

    Have a good evening.

  11. @Good Grief
    Before I answer, may I make an observation? Thank you, and please, I mean no offense but your questions are fundy loaded.

    Yeah, most definitely are fundy-load, fundy-slanted and funday-immersed. I have come to grips with it. Thanks for the

    Yours is an interesting point of view, I’m no sure I agree, although I would actually imagine we would agree on many more things than we would disagree on. Once again, unintentionally, I have placed myself squarely into another in depth Bible study. So, food for thought it good I suppose, in cases such as these, we know they will either strengthen what we believe or we will find truth.

    Out of curiosity Don – you said you used to be involved in a fundamental church, what changed?

    Thanks.

    GG

  12. @GG

    In a word: Grace…

    Maybe I could blame it on the former pastor that is now in jail but I can’t…

    Maybe I could no longer swallow the lies and the deception and the power grabs that I had seen in all the churches I had ever attended… but that wasn’t it either.

    Maybe on the fact that I grew up in church, IFB- KJV-BoJo bunker from the age of 13 on; thinking I was saved and holding on to the once saved always saved Baptist doctrine…. I mean I had said the prayer and everthing, been baptized the whole nine yards…

    Yet the Lord saw fit to save me when I was 38 years old. I was not looking to be saved but He did a work of grace in my heart that night and gave me life that I had never had before. And He did it at home, in my bed (not at some so called altar… thanks for nothing Charles Finney).

    After God redeemed me it was a slow but steady process that led me away from the small god that was being preached in the fundy circles to the Sovereign Almighty Creator God of the Universe.

    All in all, I would have to say, by the working of Grace in my life there was a combination of Theology, learning who God is- as He has revealed Himself in Scripture, Doctrine, the study of the Doctrines of Grace, the Five Solas of the Reformation, the rejection of legalism through an indepth study of Galatians, and a group of like minded friends with whom I have found liberty in Christ.

    The last pastor we had was the son of the one in jail… He was not his father and he was reformed in his doctrine. He had grown up in the IFB movement and he had seen the underbelly of what is called church in the IFB bunkers of the South. He brought reformed teaching to our little fundy church for two and a half years. When the Lord opened the door for him to persue his education (he is in a Doctorate program in a real University) he left the pastorate and we began a search for an new pastor. In short order the majority wanted to return to their vomit… I mean shallow fundy preaching. I could not sit under the shallow, anti-intellectual, so called preaching from self-anointed men who claimed they were called to preach…. clearly their call was a wrong number.

    I determined I would not subject my family to such poor excuse for preaching and we left… and have not looked back except to stare and wonder how we ever allowed ourselves to be duped by the con-men we had sat under and who had demanded our loyality.

    The rest, as they say, is history and so here I am.

    We are now under reformed teaching and there is a most wonderful focus on the Sovereignty of the Almighty Creator God. (here’s another freebee: if you can figure God out… then he’s not a god worthy of worship. God, the one true God, is unfathomable, He is so Great, so wonderful, so God! that we only get the spoon’s perception of the taste of food in comparison to who He really is.)

    G’night

  13. Fair enough, I can appreciate some of the reasoning in your thinking. I think the whole Fundy thing is a really wide and broad group that encompasses many different people and types of people and preachers. Hard to broad brush them all the same as far as their preaching and stuff goes since I wouldn’t walk across the street myself to hear some of them preach.

    Our of curiosity, what kind of church do you go to now?

    I must also bid G’night

  14. @Don,

    While I missed most of the argument, I’m kinda interested in what you think about preachers like Paul Washer and Tim Conway. They denounce the quick prayerism methods of modern evangelism, and yet, in all their preaching that I have heard, there is such a legalistic overtone (although all their fans dismiss it because they do say “salvation by grace through faith alone”) of works works works (especially Conway).

    I’ve left the IFB church. I was saved before I joined, and basically doubted my salvation the entire time I was in it, because I was constantly failing and “out of fellowship”. But when I left it, I found a vast wasteland of legalism in every other denomination and theology as well. I asked for some recommendations and 90% of the time I was sent Paul Washer sermons, which drove me crazy (well, not crazy, but they drove me to despair, even worse than when I was in the IFB church).

    Thanks
    Luke

  15. Oh, yeah, I meant to say, the main reason I ask is because those guys are Calvinists, but are very legalistic (most of the people Paul Washer quotes from are Wesleyan in theology), and you said you reject legalism… so I was wondering if there were Calvinists out there that actually disagree with the preaching of those men? I heard a Conway sermon recently where he basically said most of the people in his congregation were going to hell. Also, Francis Chan said something like that too, but I only read about that, didn’t hear it.

  16. @GG Reformed theology Baptist (without so much emphasis on the Baptist)

    Luke,
    I don’t know of Conway. Can’t say I’ve ever heard one of his messages. Washer on the other hand I know of. I understand Washer’s zeal and desire to wakeup the nominal Christian attending church today but sometimes the sledgehammer is not the right tool for the job. But then again it is a familiar tool to most fundie congregants so that may be where it is most effective. idk???

    Legalism and aesthetics are unbiblical no matter where you find them. Now there are commands we are commanded to keep. The moral law, as given in the Decalogue, are such commandments. How we are to treat the widows, the fatherless, the poor and those in prison are also commandments. We are admonished not to be drunk. The problem with mankind is his insistence on drawing a line in order to keep away from something or to include something … then go on to draw three or more lines to be either farther away from the original line or to include more with those additional lines. (a.k.a. Traditions of men) There is a whole profession dedicated to this pursuit it’s called Preaching or Pastoring. And that is pretty much religion wide.

    When it comes to the Calvinists there is a whole history of baggage that comes with that title. Like most labels you have to define your terms (and in the case of Calvinists it has to be detailed to the point of anal retentiveness) in order to keep the conversation on track.

    John Calvin, when the hype, the myth and the distortions are all stripped away has a very detailed and Biblical study of Doctrine and Theology. It is sad that we humans and we Americans in particular want only the bare essence of everything we do and deal with. We are so reductionist in our thinking we pervert the very system and ideas we are trying to promote.

    Having said all that, I will answer your question:

    the main reason I ask is because those guys are Calvinists, but are very legalistic (most of the people Paul Washer quotes from are Wesleyan in theology), and you said you reject legalism… so I was wondering if there were Calvinists out there that actually disagree with the preaching of those men?

    The answer is Yes. (see a fine example of reductionism)

    Legalism is wrong no matter who is preaching it, but we must make sure we are correctly defining “Legalism” and not lumping in actual biblical commands with that tub of bath water we are throwing out. If these men are preaching extra biblical rules and regs as some formula that makes one more God worthy, or some list of do’s and don’t’s as a means of sanctification then you can be sure they are wrong and I for one will say, “That ain’t right!”

    It is such a balancing act because we are frail fallen creatures. Too much legalism is deadly, just as the opposite, antinomianism is just as deadly. That is why we have the Written Scripture… so we can be as the Bereans and search it out and prove truth from error and heresy. (no matter where it is found.)

    Sorry for rambling tonight, kinda tired.

    G’night

  17. Thanks for the reply –

    As for antinomian, you would probably consider me one, but let me explain 🙂

    I don’t believe the Christian is under any law, not the 10 commandments or the greater 613. (Christ did away with the ordinances written in stone, which were specifically the 10 commandments).

    However, if by antinomian, you mean one that encourages living against the law, then I am not.

    I believe that under grace, the Christian has freedom to fulfill and exhibit the fruits of the spirit, against such there is no law. If a Christian is walking by the spirit, they won’t be exhibiting those sins of the flesh.

    I used the following example to explain it to my wife, who was never a fundy, but when we got married, I basically forced the fundy into her, and now, with my new found freedom, want her to forget everything I ever demanded 🙁

    I don’t believe that Christians are to obey any “law”. The law, whether it is 10 or 613, only condemns. Trying to obey the law is futile and only fuels the flesh.

    If you go shopping, you don’t have to try to not steal. In fact, you probably never even think about it. You go down the isles, and you put groceries in your basket and you go and pay. You don’t need to constantly restrain yourself from stealing, and then, when you get outside, away from the supermarket, think “YES! I Made it without stealing, glory to God”.

    The Christian under grace doesn’t need to be concerned about keeping the laws. If they are walking in the spirit, they are going to be exhibiting fruits of righteousness without being worried about sin (ie, they will have no consciousness of sin). We don’t need the law as some moral compass because we have the spirit of God and the mind of Christ!

    I hope that explains what I mean when I say I don’t believe the Christian is under the law.

  18. Anyway, thank you for your initial reply 🙂 Was helpful. My view of mosts calvinists is that they all love Paul Washer and they all love examining every body else for sin (granted, my only experience with many calvinists is online).

  19. @exifb: Paul Washer is a little bit wierd especially with his stories. Reading a bunch of salvation verses with a guy until all a sudden while reading the verse -he’s saved. Or telling a person to cry out to God until he saves you. Washer actually calls himself a five point Spurgeonist.

  20. Yeah, I know what you mean. I have heard most of his stories. Funny he calls himself a Spurgeonist… Spurgeon told men to believe God even if they had no feeling, to come to Christ as they are now and NOT to go away and pray, because they couldn’t get any worse, and that’s the best place to be in regards to salvation.

    But to someone like me who was just out of IFBism (well, one foot still squarely in the door), hearing all these amazing experiences and I was like “what? I didn’t have this experience. I read a tract, and believed it” and so I began doubting my salvation even more because I didn’t have the experience. I have to wonder how true the stories are, or if his stories are like Phil Kidds or Hyles, where they are shining hero… but anyway, I didn’t intend to bash on why I disagree with Washer or whoever. I just wondered if they were representative of most of Calvinism, or if it was just my bad experience online…

  21. @exIFB: Washer may be representative of a small part of the Baptist branch of Calvinism (not all or even most Calvinistic Baptists, just some), but he’s hardly representative of all Calvinists. (I’m taking for granted here that he *is* a Calvinist; I don’t actually know that for sure.) From what little I’ve heard of his preaching, he’s very, for lack of a better word, sensationalist, in a fundy sort of way.

  22. I “met” Keith Gomez by chance at Pastor’s School in the early 1990’s. I was talking to another pastor when suddenly someone grabbed me by both shoulders and then pushed out of the way, then said “Excuse me” quite sarcastically followed by four preacher-boy goons. I asked my Hyles-loving pastor who the guy was and he told me it was Keith Gomez. I told my pastor what happened and he told me just to ignore it. Nice.

  23. @ Don: AMEN! I think you hit it right on the head. Thank you.

    @ exIFB: Please go back in the archives for June 0f this year under, “Preaching To The Converted” & read the Q & A from Phil & I. I agree with you about not being under the OT Law but I firmly believe I’m under the “Law” of Christ in the NT – Grace! Please check out some works by John Reisinger, Fred Zaspel, and some others from a New Covenant Theology perspective. I think that will get you in the direction you’re seeking. I for one do not hold to the Second London Baptist Confession because of its use of the OT Law for Christians. I would favor the First London Baptist Confession & The Goat Yard Declaration (Gill’s church). They summarize the teachings that a Christian is not under the “terrors of Law” & neither can he/she keep the OT Law. Hope this helps. Grace – Rich

  24. @Richard Sullivan, your encounter with Keith Gomez brought back memories of fundy preachers and their arrogant attitudes from my teens and twenties. When I was in high school we hosted an evangelist in our home. Our pastor and he were at our house until late one night talking. Early the next morning I was getting ready for school and discovered that the guy had taken my homework out of an encyclopedia where I’d left it and had written all over the back of it in making some point or other in his conversation. I had no choice but to turn in the paper and was severely marked down for it. This was in the 60s, before backpacks. You used to just stack your books and carry them. I could have had them in my room, but who would have thought!! I became suspicious of preachers from that moment.

    In my 20s I was teaching in a fundy, very fundy, Christian school. We attended a teacher’s conference where the preacher from another church in the city was song leader. The man oozed arrogance. His whole demeanor shouted “I’m great” from his strutting banty rooster walk to the stupid toothpick he rolled around in his mouth while he was leading singing. I was not a bit surprised to hear a number of years later that he and the church secretary had run off. Nope. Not a bit surprised. The arrogance self-importance of these guys is disgusting.

  25. @ Kate: I thought it was only me when it first happened but then God really opened my eyes to all that fundy crap. You made think of a “pastor” in NC. Talk about arrogant. He would visit the church I attended for “evangelistic” meetings which amounted to nothing more than this guy tootin’ his own horn. His hair was just right, expensive shoes & suits, and talk about a strut that would make a rooster envious. Of course he loved it when all the young ladies would sit in the front rows and “admire” him. That’s what got him in trouble – a desire for young single ladies. I believe he’s currently on marriage #3. Years ago, he was eating out one night and some guy from his church gave him a knuckle sandwich. That’s what you get from messing with another man’s wife or daughter.

  26. HAHAHA! I can think of quite a few IFB’s preacher/evangelists/etc I’d like to treat to a knuckle sandwich regardless if they are strutting for the front row ladies or not.

  27. @Richard Sullivan: I have some type of NCT Confession of Faith on PDF on my computer. I got it of a wikipedia link. I looked at your last response On Preaching to the Converted a few wek ago. Thanks for the reply. Is NCT a monolithic theological movement or is diverse. Imay leave another question on Preaching to the converted.

  28. @ Phil: Good to hear from you. NCT is a pretty diverse crowd. We agree on the main issue that the OT Law is not binding for NT believers. We are guided by the teachings of the NT (& of course the Holy Spirit). Some in NCT are KJV but more along the lines of Trinitarian Bible Society’s guidelines (uses Scrivener’s apparatus instead of Erasmus’). Others use the ESV, NIV, and NASB. Some are denominational (SBC) and others independents. I found great help from reading works by Douglas Moo (Yes, like a cow). He has a NCT leaning but from a “modified Lutheran” viewpoint. I’m sure you will (as I did) find a wealth of teachings with its main focus on Christ being the fulfillment of the OT Law, God’s sovereign hand in salvation, and living in the grace provided by His Son, Jesus Christ. As I said before, look at the OT through NT eyes. Grace & Peace – Rich

  29. Looks like this guy has been attacked by the demonic forces of gluttony. Also, where in the Bible does it say that parents should force their 18+ yr. old children to go to a fundamental Christian College. Last I heard, 18 is the legal age to make decisions as an adult – independent of parental interference.

  30. hey if u guys are gonna be cussing and saying bad things abbout him i suggest u go haome and think about wat u just said about this great preacher that is known all over the world now im standing up for him because he is my preacher his church is in elgin illinois nrthwest bible baptist church so backoff

    1. Leah, I won’t cuss. I will even give you that he is a “great” preacher, because I haven’t met him. But great is not “perfect” nor is it infallible.

      Case in point: at the beginning of the clip, he talks about how 45 minutes of preaching on Sun AM, PM, and Wed will not undo the hours of influence of the television. Well, that’s an error. The pastor is not and should not be the only spiritual person influencing the children. They should be reading their Bibles; the parent’s should have a spiritual influence on them. If they go to a Christian school (which seems likely), the teachers there should have an influence. It is a mistake and prideful to imply that only the preacher can bring any spiritual influence for good.

      I noted in passing that the speaker’s hair wouldn’t pass inspection at Hyles-Anderson college.

  31. Some day, every single one of you that leaves a comment degrading this great man of God will answer for it. All of his doctrines, his standards, and his convictions are birthed in and based on the scriptures. So if you have a problem with him, you have a problem with God. Keith Gomez is and will always be my pastor. My life has been molded to follow God’s will thanks to his ministry. I am proud to call myself an independent, fundamental, Bible-believing Baptist. I am willing to bet that so many of you were born into a home with God-fearing parents, but you never had the character to read the Bible yourself and find out what your own personal convictions should’ve been.
    So when you watch the news tonight, and when you see a mosque being built on American memorial soil, and when you wonder why America is becoming an Islamic and Socialistic nation, it’s because of cowards like you. People who’s parents, when they were your age, would have never believed the state that so-called Christians are in today. So few know what it is to take a stand against wrong influences today. You are all being led astray by the world. Oh, and by the way, I’ve read the Bible and (just a little hint for you guys), the “fundies” win.

    1. This comment is so full of awesome I don’t even know where to start with it.

      I think I’ll just sit here and let its irradiating glow illuminate my liver.

      By the way, I’ve read that Book too. Jesus Christ is the one who wins.

    2. “Some day, every single one of you that leaves a comment degrading this great man of God will answer for it.”

      Um, no. That’s a fundy urban myth.

      Nice try, though.

    3. Really? Is not wearing open toe shoes in the scripture? How about name calling from the pulpit? Wearing ties? How about telling college students how to behave on a date, then doing the total opposite when you are dating? Having a beard, but then telling other not to have one? Criticizing other protestant/baptist pastors for having a difference in opinion? ❓

      1. As for “the fundies winning”, I’m pretty sure Jesus wins and the pharisees (most fundies) lose. Try opening the book of Matthew and reading with an open mind instead of being spoon fed what your cult leader is telling you.

  32. I have stated very plainly (above) what I believe regarding salvation for sinful man according to the scriptures. I realize, however, that I could be in serious trouble if Don’s “way” is correct, because I don’t know that God. I don’t recognize the God that Don speaks about.

  33. He was my pastor for waaaayyyyy too many years. Always hated him. I left his “church” aka cult 22 years ago and have never regretted it. The things he’s done to his people, visitors of the cult and my family… I hate him. I think his denomic influence is cake and too much cajun snacks!

  34. It amazes me that young people who are supposed to be responsible adults by the time they leave for college would go to a college they choose and they pay for or take their parents money and then critize the college and the pastor. If you don’t believe the way the pastor preaches or the college believe don’t go. To go and sign a statement of belief and then break the rules or critize the rules is a sign of our society today. We elect our leaders and then break the laws they pass. I dare say everybody reading this post has broken the speed limit at some point and we feel justified in doing so because we are arrogant to believe that those silly laws passed by the silly congress or city commission are not for us.

    Grow up people take responsibility for your own actions and stop trying to bring down those who choose to believe and want to practice beliefs their way!

  35. Don so inaccurately described “for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation” by referring to that as a “WHIM”?!

    My dear hyper Calvinist, while you may be saved, your theology is twisted.

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