FWOTW: theoldpathsbaptist.com


I have to wonder who first came up with the “JerUSAlem” thing as a clever title for home missions. I really wish they hadn’t.

Be sure to check out the missions video presentation, blog, and collection of music recordings.

82 thoughts on “FWOTW: theoldpathsbaptist.com”

  1. @ DJ Comino:

    You are right. I have/need to forgive them because HE FORGAVE me. Ultimately this is easier said ……… especially when it is fresh in your mind/life.

    I wonder though when does forgiveness turn into apathy: is it OK to forgive an IFB church that allowed a deacon to remain a member after he RAPED a 14 yr old girl, yet the girl is sent away to be “punished”. Or should you pursue true justice in this case? I wonder how you would answer if it was your daughter?
    I think the forgiveness answer is kind of like the “your just bitter” answer that you are labeled with when you leave an IFB church— they both ignore reality and don’t address how to deal with real issues.

    Jesus is God, most churches are frauds!
    The Bible is supposed to be a sword that precisely pierces the soul, not a club to bludgeon and destroy.

  2. Yes, gluttony is a sin no one is arguing that, but he very well could have a medical issue that makes him gain weight i.e. medicine, thyroid, injuries that prevent him from exercising etc… Now we all agree that they make jokes about eating too much but it’s really not right to make fun of anyone regardless of whether they are sinning or not. I’ve seen it a lot lately on here and I don’t really care for it. They are people created in God’s image just like we are and we should be respectful simply for that fact. I’m all for attacking ideas, not people and there is a big difference between those 2 things.

  3. Sorry! My comment came a little after the fact. I had to go rescue my television from my 2 year old and a black crayon.

  4. Matt – OF COURSE this is something where justice should be pursued!!!(!!!)

    But does this typify most fundies? Do most fundie’s rape kids and teens? I know the report that the Chicago news did on Hyles and his cronies. Pretty convincing. But, I don’t think this is typical. I was in IFBx for 30 years and still know a lot of folks in IFBx and I don’t this you can label the whole movement with examples peppered here and there. Of course there are plenty of examples of things like this in ANY denomination/movement your involved in. This is because we are still in a cursed fallen world.

    Back to you forgiving – I can tell you that if you never forgive people for what they do, your life will be that much more miserable than it probably already is having walked through such a horrific event. I am so sorry you had to go through this.

  5. PS – at the same time, I would totally understand if it took years to forgive… That is a terrible thing. And if the church swept it under the rug they should be exposed. No doubt. But, bitterness is a cancer and it eats and spreads…

  6. @ DJ Cimino,
    No it’s not Bob, and I understand your reasons for not wanting to post. Blessings!

  7. I tell you what I’m sick of. . . . I’m sick of people citing Piper’s personal statement like a gag to shut the rest of us up. Yeah, yeah . . . I know his history. Heck — I’ve read his dad’s letters to Bob Jones Sr. I know Bill Piper moved from Cleveland, TN to Greenville to follow BJC/BJU so that the Piper kids could go to BJU. I know that Piper invested and nearly lost his shirt after he bought property around the BJU campus. I know that he raised the funds for the A/C in Rhodeheaver. I know that he was the Alumni Association prez twice. I know that he was on the BJU Board.

    And I also know that he left after Gilbert Stenholm called him a “hypocrite” for objecting to the way Bob Sr. was having a tantrum over Billy Graham’s integration of his crusades.

    Piper can do what Piper wants. That’s fine. But he’s throwing them a bone, in a sense. Doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to. It’s like saying to Luther, “Hey — Melancthon is being so nice to the Catholic. Why can’t you?”

    Oy vey.

  8. @ Camille – Can you show where Piper’s thoughts on the matter are unscriptural or not helpful? Does your attitude towards interacting with IFB build others up? Do you give grace to those who hear you when you speak of IFB?

    People here are bitter. And there may be good reasons why you are. But I don’t buy the “we’re just fighting against the kooky, radical elements in IFB” line. IMHO, I don’t see concern for truth so much as I see people on the other side of the room picking up the rocks tossed at them and just throwing them back.

    Right after I came to believe in the doctrines of grace I started listening to the White Horse Inn. I asked my new pastor at the time if he listened to them and he said he used to. Then he said the following, “you can only be reactionary for so long”…

  9. People here are bitter.

    And there we go. Finally the veneer of niceness wears through and we see the same old thought-stopping rhetoric that we’ve heard again and again.

    And again I never cease to be amazed that some people believe that the real problem is those who dare to point out that there are, in fact, problems. Fundamentalism is not just a collection of well-meaning harmless kooks. There are some of those to be sure, but as I’ve demonstrated again and again you don’t have to very far from the ‘sane’ fundamentalists to find a dangerous and despicable element being tolerated and even embraced.

    If my brother in Christ is attempting breaks into my house and attempts to hurt my family, I’ll stop him by any means necessary. By the same token if my brother in Christ is spiritually raping and pillaging Christ’s church then I think that a few unkind words are a very light punishment indeed.

  10. And I apologize if I brought the mood down. I really admire Piper, and I frankly admire him a lot more since i I read his dad’s letters. They were so touching — honest. And I’m still processing them all. I mean, I knew John was from my neck in the woods, but I had no idea what his dad had endured.

    I get a tremendous amount of encouragement from seeing John as more recovered than his dad. And I hope that much for my sons.

    That’s why I share such things. Because God’s bigger than squabbles. And because I think He’s giggling at all this stuff too. Just like we are.

  11. Just wanted to pipe in here and say that I can vouch for DJ’s veracity. He is an old friend that has come out of much the same backgrounds as many of us. I think he does have a point – while it is certainly not wrong to point out the foibles and idiosyncracies of Fundies, we should be careful that we do not do so out of a spirit of bitterness or unkindness. Not saying that SFL does that, but the warning is still valid, nonetheless.

  12. @DJ Cimino:

    IMNSHO u are a full blown IFB’er still.

    “People here are bitter” – Who are you building up with that statement?

    Regarding your previous post directed at me you said, “your life will be that much more miserable than it probably already is …”. I appreciate your sympathy for a bitter man like myself :), but my life is not miserable at all. My wife and I have a great relationship, not perfect like most IFB couples pretend to have – I digress, we have four beautiful kids. Typical IFBism to hear a horrible story and just start judging right down to the “fact” that my life is miserable. Motives my friend are God’s responsibility, not mans.
    “I don’t this [think] you can label the whole movement with examples peppered here and there” —-when you have a plethora of examples, they become the norm, not the exception.

    “IMHO, I don’t see concern for truth so much as I see people on the other side of the room picking up the rocks tossed at them and just throwing them back. ”
    — This is a humorous website, not a church service. I know that it is hard for you to discern the fact that people can laugh without bitterness, I have to say — I didn’t CAUSE IFBer’s problems, I cannot CONTROL them, and I certainly cannot CURE them.
    DJ Cimono, read Timothy Keller’s ‘Reason For God’ (pp 176-178), it’s all about Jesus Christ, the IFB has forgotten that.

  13. Sorry Darrell I love this site and will cease to argue.
    Keep it up! You are an articulate and hilarious person. You need to put this stuff in book form!!

  14. People here are bitter. I didn’t think I was letting the niceness wear off. I thought I was just stating the obvious. I’ll shut up and let things get back to normal. But I do find it very revealing how peeved some people get when someone tries to raise some concerns.

  15. @DJ Cimino

    I don’t think anybody is getting peeved. The problem is that the “bitter” trump card has been tried so many times, we’re a bit surprised someone would try and use that again, especially here. It’s been debunked many times, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren’t aware. Maybe these will help:


  16. For the record, my comment was based on what I heard from preachers growing up. They’d make a joke about someone’s weight-gain and say it was because his wife must be a good cook. That’s all.

  17. as a robust gentleman with a vast waistband, i have fat joke immunity. if you yourself are not morbidly obese, you can’t understand what my people have been through. fat, by the way, is OUR word. we can call each other fat, but you may not call us fat. See you at the i.f.buffet.

  18. “Don’t you call me pudgy, portly or stout
    Just now tell me once again who’s fat”

  19. I sent him an email saying, “You know Charles H. Spurgeon smoked, right? You should not support preachers like that. He did not use the King James either.”

    His response a few hours later, “No I didn’t know that, but thank you so much for the update!!!”


  20. Mind you, if Spurgeon was here today, he would probably use ESV (hehe), but are you sure he didn’t mostly use KJV? I thought I remember from my IFB days hearing Ruckman use a quote of Spurgeon using the “majestic Authorized Version” etc…

  21. Big test – either he pulls down the Spurgeon references/pictures, or he defiles his own conscience.

  22. Richard Sullivan nailed it!
    This guy and all those like him are primarially focused on exporting IFB into areas that don’t have that particular brand of disease yet. And they do it thru the Missions welfare organizations like he said.
    Amanda nailed the “Old Paths” crap as well. I am nauseated over the IFB’s super sanctimonious use of “Old Paths.” If they want to return to the 50’s ok, but don’t do it with a pious, whitewashed, misuse of scripture! grrrr
    I would like to have laughed at this one but it hits too close to the crap I came out of and it still galls me that I gave money to support the IFB export industry, sending ignorant and unlearded men to gather followers (of the same ilk) and promote a cult in towns and cities that didn’t have the particular brand of disease until the IFB shows up with their, “INDEPENDENT, UNAFFILIATED, UNREGISTERED, KING JAMES BIBLE PREACHING, SINNER LOVING, SIN HATING, SAINT EXHORTING, SAVIOUR EXALTING, SOLD OUT, SEPARATED, SET APART, IN LOVE WITH JESUS, GOD CALLED, CHURCH SENT, CHURCH PLANTING, BAPTIST[S].”

  23. Funny and all, but worth mentioning is that the music on their site is killer!
    I don’t even like country and I despise fundamentalism as I was raised in it.
    But I find it to be both tasteful and soothing. I may use it @ the “modern relevant” SBC church I work for 😛

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