The Decline and Fall of Steven Anderson

It was almost inevitable, I suppose, that Steven Anderson having taken up the cause of killing all gay people would then follow up by taking on The Jews.

A couple of things here:

1. Notice the increasingly professional quality of his videos. He’s come a long way from his first one-camera urine-laced rant. Somewhere he’s finding the money and backing to increase his outreach potential.

2. Notice what he does with his hand at 1:25 while denying that he’s a Hitler fan. I’m just saying.

Unless something changes this will likely be the last time I reference Steven Anderson on this blog. He’s jumped far off the IFB bandwagon into obvious cult territory. There will doubtless continue to an increasingly insane set of things being said by him and his followers but I’m tired of his particular brand of jackassery.

360 thoughts on “The Decline and Fall of Steven Anderson”

    1. I can’t imagine another guy would want to have sex with him if he knew anything about his past (and present), so if it’s happened yet, he’s probably doing it anonymously on the down low…

      1. Don’t assume no other guy would want to have sex with him. Ever heard of Roy Cohn? If not look him up.
        One of the 20 or so worst people in history, and guys had sex with him.
        Besides, there’s always the option of paying for sex.

  1. His complete ignorance of history, world events, and just basic scholarship is staggering. Why would ANYONE listen to this guy?
    I seriously doubt that he’s ever traveled to out of his own state, much less to Europe to actually SEE the camps. Idiot.
    There are some choice words for him that my sweet Southern Grandmother would rather me not use.

    1. Dear Katherine:

      Staggering ignorance of history, world events, and basic scholarship — impressive credentials…

      Christian Socialist

      PS: At some point, integrity requires that we say that a man is lying. The Dutch reformed church [my ecclesiastical tradition] has people who can attest that during the occupation of the lowlands, people were lost from every town. No matter how small, no village was left untouched. Everyone lost someone. No holocaust? In a pig’s eye.

      Stop lying, Mr. Anderson.

    2. He is, indeed, very ignorant, but Steven Anderson did live as a missionary in Germany for a while. His wife is German, and was one of his early converts (maybe the only one in Germany?).

      That doesn’t make him an expert on German and European history, of course. I live near a pecan tree, but I’m not a squirrel.

      1. Dear Big Gary:

        Sarah Palin can see Russia from her back yard. Does that make her a foreign policy expert? Sarah Palin can also see the moon from her back yard. Does that make her an astronaut?

        Christian Socialist

        1. Dear CS,

          Did you really have to mention her “who should remain nameless”?

          She makes Steve Anderson seem well-read and urbane.

          Respectfully,
          BJg

        2. Yep. Gotta admit Steven Anderson is smarter and better informed, and probably even more ethical, than Miss Wasilla Word Salad.
          Of course, that’s like being the least dead chicken in the freezer …

        3. “Sarah Palin looks at the moon wistfully and wishes she could phone home….”

  2. His first assumption is incorrect; therefore, his subsequent argument is invalid. Not all of the approximately 6 million Jews were killed in gas chambers and cremated, there were millions who died in work camps via starvation, etc… The extermination camps (Auchwitz-Birkenau, etc.) were built a bit later on than the work/slave labor camps. IIRC, some started out as labor camps and were converted to extermination camps. To put it short, dude is delusional.

    1. Most of the Holocaust victims were killed by means other than gas chambers. They were worked to death, starved, died of exposure, or were simply lined up and shot.

    2. The number of people killed in Auschwitz/Birkenau (including many non-Jews) tends to be estimated at around 1.5 million to 2.5 million. Again, many died by other means than gas chambers, and not all of the victims’ bodies were cremated.

      But there were many other locations where people were killed, and even more where many died from poor conditions (overwork, undernourishment, overcrowding, exposure, disease epidemics). The Holocaust refers to all these deaths– about 5 to 6 million Jews, and another 5 to 6 million other people. The exact numbers hardly matter in terms of the ethical significance– the numbers were certainly in the millions.

  3. I gave up pretty early; sorry. It’s insane. When someone starts with the qualifier “I don’t have a racist bone in my body” that’s my cue to run. I have yet to meet a person, from any race, from any country, from any creed, who isn’t racist to some degree or another. The real question is whether he or she recognizes that the natural bent of her/his heart is to hate others that are made in the image of God because that other person is…anything. If he/she recognizes this weakness and proneness to go astray, they are alive to it and seeking to overcome it. If not, they are usually beyond help till their eyes are opened.

    1. Don’t confuse “racism” with “bias.” Everyone has their own biases, yes. But with the definition of “racist” being “a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another,” I’m not sure I’d agree that everyone is racist to some degree or another.

      1. In Northern Ireland, there is a *lot* of antipathy towards immigrants from Eastern Europe (mostly from Poland. They are white but they are seen as dirty , lazy corrupt spongers. Is that racism? I think it is.

        1. Well, Paul, my former fundy CEO thinks very much the same way about the Latino population in our town. He compares them to the Cretans referencing the epistle of Titus.

          Of course, what this corporate charlatan fails to understand (though he would never admit failing at anything) is that the context is not an outsider proclaiming disparaging characteristics on an entire group of people, but rather a member of said group making those blanket assertions. It’s the classic Epimenides paradox.

          The implications should be obvious.

          Anything or anyone that runs counter to our culture is suspect, right or wrong.

          “I’m not a racist!” says Mr. Anderson.

          Why should you have to declare what you are not?

          “I’m not a Chevrolet Corvette.” Yea, no kidding idiot.

          However, if I was made of fiberglass in the shape of a corvette, ran off of petrol, needed oil changes, had my picture in the corvette section of the want ads (I know, obsolete) when my owner sells me, then I could probably be deemed a liar when I say, “I’m a turtle!”

          So, Mr. Anderson, perhaps people take a look at you and see someone in the shape of a racist, doing racist things, making racist comments. They don’t see a man of God, they see a racist. They don’t hear the oracles of God, they hear racism (among other things). They don’t hear edifying statements of truth, they hear racism.

          So, what’s the conclusion of the matter?

          Mr. Anderson, YOU ARE A RACIST (among other things).

          I can’t judge how you are as a father or husband, I can only see what I’m reading in the “want ads.”

          B.R.1

        2. If anyone, say an Englishman or American, fires any “paddy Irishman” jokes in my direction, I respond with a question: What is black and blue and covered in blood, and floats upside-down in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean? Answer: An Englishman/American/whatever caught telling Irishman jokes.

        3. Dear BigRed1:

          If you have to say you’re not a racist …

          Christian Socialist

      2. I’ve said this here before, but when somebody says “I’m not racist,” it means “I’m a racist,” and when someone says “I’m not a racist, but …” invariably, the next thing out of his or her mouth is extremely racist.

    2. I have been forced – very much against my will – to look into my own heart. I don’t like what I see. Prejudice after prejudice. I can only ask God to change my heart.

      1. I have a lot more respect for someone who can admit that they are prejudice and is trying to change than someone who flat out lies and tries to portray that they are not prejudice. We are all judgemental to some degree. The difference is admitting it.

      2. Same for me! It bothers me deeply. But I pray about it and I work at it, and I trust that God will help me.

        Simply being aware of my prejudices has helped a lot, I think–I still think wrong things far more frequently than I should, but at least when I realize this, I can actively work to improve those thoughts.

      3. Paul Best, THAT is truly Christian. Myself, I have to realize that I am well and truly privileged, and when to shut up and listen. I wish you well, friend.

    3. Well said. Whenever someone loudly proclaims, “I’m no racist, but…” you can usually assume the next thing out of their mouth will be racist.

      1. I found this yesterday by chance, and was thinking about posting it here. I skipped ahead, listened to a minute or so, then skipped ahead again… yeah, it’s more or less like it looks. Films of skinny concentration camp victims prove that the Nazis weren’t trying to kill them, because in that case, how would they have enough time to get skinny? Jews are the synagogue of Satan, and liars because the Bible says anyone who denies Christ is a liar. But Anderson wants to save them from a REAL holocaust, namely hell.

  4. Ok, lets ignore for a moment the insane rants and well known mental deficiencies of the man and look at the content of his material. He first sets up a straw man. The official story is not that 6 million jews 1) died in ovens 2) at Auschwitz. So yes right away, he’s right to object to that, but he’s still wrong because it doesn’t matter. Let’s not follow suit and say he is denying the event of the Holocaust, when he is only denying the scope of it. Was it 6 million? Probably not. It’s awfully tough to count directly after all the displacements of such a massively destructive war. Was it in the millions? Yes. Of course. Even this moron admits as much. Does it make a difference if it was six or four? Not in the slightest. Is the changing number on the plaques indicative of authorities becoming more honest? That’s ridiculous. It’s indicative of the massive amount of research that continues to happen and the more refined results. So, 4 million at Auschwitz? If you know very roughly the total and you haven’t discovered the gruesome extent maybe you have to put them all there. Then you discover Ravensbruck and a bunch of others and you piece together the records and realize there were several camps, a lot of people died at all of them from yes, gassing, but also starvation, disease, exposure, firing line, and (at the end of the reich) being buried alive. So the numbers get spread out over more camps. It is a testament to the extent of the extermination system, not to the brainless assertion that it wasn’t really a big deal.
    I think Anderson wants to minimize it so that he can justify his own genocidal tendencies against Muslims, gays, people who don’t agree with him.

  5. I managed to last almost two minutes. He is a sick man. I wonder if some group, you know which kind of group, has found him and is polishing him up to use as a figure head. It is unsettling to me that he has not been officially challenged on this.

    1. Same here. At the 1:58 mark, I had had enough. My idiocy limit gets smaller the older I get, and he hit it very quickly.

      I wonder if his misguided interpretation of history is from Zsuzsanna. Since she is German, I’m sure she knows what really happened.

  6. Ugh. Good call Darrell. Holocaust deniers deserve no publicity, good or bad.

    Also, how easy/difficult is it to piss against the wall when your pants are on fire?

  7. I rarely, very rarely, want to say anything about a person’s eternal destiny and his heart.

    However, I would advise Steve Anderson to reflect upon himself in relation to Matthew 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

    He may not be going where he thinks he’s going.

    1. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. I John 4:20

    1. I had the exact same thought. He has definitely traveled to these places, but I wonder if this is attempt to assuage some guilt his wife may have?

  8. The scariest thing about Anderson’s rants against the *Gay community* is that I haven’t actually heard of *any* big names in the IFB mivement come out against him on the side of the Gays. Maybe their were. I might have missed it. I have seen at leat one video of someone who has applauded Andersons “courage” Of course, the Jews are something else entirely. Especially those living in the state of Israel. So it will be interesting to hear what his fellow fundies say.

    1. Some of us have been openly critical of him in our admittedly small circles for years now. We’ve watched him lurch from ludicrous position to ludicrous position and tried to warn folks against him. But I’m not a “big name” and I don’t anticipate I ever will be.

      1. It could be that some of the “big names” just aren’t aware of him.

        This is the ONLY place I’ve ever heard of him.

        I was traveling and visited a pretty small church a couple of weeks ago, and the pastor rebuked Steve Anderson for his statements about the homosexual crowd.

        So, some good pastors get it.

        1. I’ve seen Anderson mentioned in some other places, I just don’t remember where.

          He has inspired a few to make a Youtube videos rebutting him. Gursant Singh, Eddie Blank, and Robert Paul Wieland have posted videos against him. They take a bit of unearthing though. Most listings are of Anderson himself screeching. Granted, these guys aren’t IFB but he’s getting noticed outside the compound.

      1. Yup. As long as he uses the KJV, his Fundy credentials are good. Look at Peter Ruckman, a frothing-at-the-mouth-insane, racist nut who is still held in high regard in most IFB circles. I understand he still preaches when he is not too busy communing with UFOs and space aliens.

        1. Michael Alford: Why is the example out of date?
          I’m not aware of many Fundies criticizing Ruckman.

        2. Gary, hope this reply winds up in the right place. When I got saved back in the Dark Ages ( 1995) Dr. Ruckman was already considered a bit of a hot potato. They were people who loved him despite his nuttiness (that would be me) and there were people who ran as far away from him as they could because they considered the good he was doing to be outweighed by his nuttiness. I have friends at all points along this spectrum. Since then he has gotten older, and nuttier. He is no longer pastor at BBC and is no longer teaching the Bible. He’s 94, I think, and his voice is gone, he’s blind, and pretty much deaf. Even before his health issues, his meetings were declining , which was fine by him because he was old and didn’t want to travel as much.
          So I don’t know if he was ever “held in high regard in most IFB circles”, but some of us have a great affection for the old man and the help he was to us in learning the Bible and learning to believe the Bible.
          Shameless plug time:
          http://michaelalford.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-old-man-and-me.html

        3. Perhaps we can agree to disagree about whether Ruckman ever did much good by spreading his deranged, racist heresies around, and his erroneous teachings about the Bible.

      1. In my estimation, SFL sometimes paints with a broad brush , ascribing the term “fundy” as derogatory shorthand for people that they disagree with, and though I’m hardly a big enough fish to warrant SFL targeting, some of my friends in the ministry often are. Sometimes the criticisms are valid, and the lampooning necessary, but sometimes not. I hold a number of beliefs and practices that are regularly skewered here, so I used the term “the rest of us”.

        1. You have certainly been one of the more reasonable ones who dare to come onto the board. And of course, we have had our disagreements and will continue to.

          In my days of learning to see fundamentalism with “outside eyes,” I was much the same. It took time for some beliefs to be let go of. Some “fundamentalist” beliefs still remain and are more stubborn.

          I have never discarded a belief because it was “fundamentalist.” It has always been because I came to realize that a belief or belief set happened to be wrong for such and such reasons.

          May you, when you change what you believe, always be able to do so because you have found it to be in error. I think you are an honorable person in this regard.

          But please pay attention to the questions that arise in your mind that you are afraid to acknowledge. Fundamentalism enforces its beliefs by making you afraid God will judge you for thinking differently. Yet our Savior handled the fears of His disciples honestly and met their needs where they were. He will for you, too. Those honest questions are important. The realization that certain interpretations are made up out of whole cloth are stunning and eye-opening.

          Regards

  9. Most likely, in a few years, we will hear the news that he was molesting his own children, or having a homosexual relationship with a male prostitute or he gets caught watching hard core porn.

    These guys use the facade of moral superiority to cover their own wretched depravity that they don’t want to acknowledge or humble themselves before God and admit.

      1. Question: Why isn’t this hateful video of his not enough to identify his depravity? I.e. why would it only be regarded as confirmed is there sexual misbehavior? There’s quite enough sin in Anderson’s recent video. Obvious, blatant, intentional sin.

        1. Good point, Wasn’t Henry. Making videos like these is depraved enough behavior that no further inquiry is needed. I don’t have to know about his sexual proclivities to know he’s a malign presence.

    1. I’m going to predict it will be more white collar. Something like tax evasion. If not, it will be assault. A lot of anger in that skinny man.

      1. There is enough anger in him that I suspect he was an abused child or teen. I am not accusing his family, I do not know them but the results of abuse look at lot like this.

        1. No, don’t malign the abused. People abused as children make their own choices when adults. A man who has not chosen to confront his demons looks like this.

        2. The problem is that child abuse may have continued into his adulthood as spiritual abuse. That takes a lot of our choices away or at least makes them so difficult as to be unimaginable. Anger is often the unintentional give away of that.

    2. These guys use the facade of moral superiority to cover their own wretched depravity that they don’t want to acknowledge or humble themselves before God and admit.

      Or they’re trying to self-medicate/self-treat without anyone ever finding out. Especially if they’re a Big Name Celebrity whose public face is Moral Superiority. They are trapped by their own public image.

  10. I am an independent baptist pastor in South Georgia. I have seen that mr anderson has jumped from one issue to another, and along the way has given the enemies of The Lord occasion to blaspheme. I am glad the SFL has seen the difference between this fella and true bible believers. I know I am not liked on this site because of being a fundy, but it goes both ways. I disagree with most of y’all’s rants and mockeries, but even a stopped clock is right twice in a day, and I appreciate Darrell identifying the difference between Anderson and the true bible believers(fundys)

      1. Well. Glad you caught that. Let me say this. I believe that the IFB churches are too often churches that are ran by tradition and preference and not the Bible. Now that being said, I am ashamed that this is the case. But the churches that I have found(though they be few) that hold to the Bible as the only authority and then try to follow it and obey tend to identify themselves as independent baptist.

        1. Seriously Kenneth Jr. There are many churches of many different denominations that hold the Bible as their only authority and try to follow it. You may not agree with what they think the Bible says as each person that reads it of necessity interprets it’s meaning, but they hold it as an authority and they try to follow it and many of them are not Baptist of any stripe.

        2. “Hold to the Bible as the only authority” is ambiguous at best. ALL religions will say this. The bottom line is that your beliefs are based on your understanding and interpretation of what the Bible says.

          For example, one the “What We Believe” section of your website, you state that “man is, by nature and choice, a sinner.” The Bible teaches otherwise and only when verses are lifted out of context can you say that man is by nature a sinner. Granted, you did say also by choice – thank you for that part (most IFB only say by nature).

          You also say salvation is “absent of works.” The Bible says that prayer, faith, repentance are all works and are necessary for salvation.

          Also you say the local church is the “medium” by which the Lord works. For the record, I hate this comment. You believe that God exists in three persons, including the Holy Spirit, but why do you deny the Holy Spirit the freedom to do His work? He is the medium by which the Lord works today.

          See what I mean, I rely upon the Bible as my final authority but clearly disagree with you on some critical issues.

          Sincerely,
          A 4 year Bible degree holding former fundy pastor 🙂
          Yes, I also read your testimony

        3. Ok….. here we go.

          I noticed that you did not bother to comment on the fact that we hold the the KJV as the only Bible that is to be used in all matters of faith and practice.

          The Bible very clearly states that sin came by one man sin entered the world and brought corruption(Romans 5:12-18) It also says that there is sin that works in our members(Romans 7:5) and it also says that in our flesh dwelleth no good thing. Sin is also a choice, glad you picked up on that.

          Yes, the Bible says that all those things are works. John 6 Jesus says the work we must do is to believe on him. But you are not being entirely honest when you quote our website are you? it doesn’t stop there. We explain works as sacraments, baptism and man’s traditions. You will find this be in line with Ephesians 2:8,9

          Also we believe that the Church is the medium through preaching of the Gospel. I have in no way ever pretended that the Holy Spirit of God was not the major working force. We simply believe that God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that will believe

          So here is what you did. you went to the website and found a couple technicalities that you saw “holes” in and made assumptions.

          Former Fundy Pastor? Four year degree? You read my testimony? Great stuff but not the issue at hand. I put the testimony for people to read, so good job. Thanks for doing some research, but I am sure you won’t allow me the same courtesy because of your screen name. But it is Ok. I am not ashamed of who and what I am, A Bible Believer. or like Mi ram said “The real thing”

        4. The real thing, while I did not specify what I meant, was not referring to your version of a “Bible believer” and I am pretty sure you know it.
          Don’t be disingenuous

        5. My apologies Miriam. I sincerely thought you were referring to my being a true Bible Believer when you said I was the real thing. But if you did not mean that then my apologies. So I will say it all my own. I am the real thing when it comes to believing the Bible.

        6. I am beginning to feel like I am banging my head against a wall. You THINK you are the “real thing.” You SAY you are the real thing but that does not make it so. You and your thinking are the product of your environment. That isn’t your fault. It is simply a fact. Telling others they are wrong and their “church” is wrong, simply shows that you do not have any idea of the meaning of Divine love (admittedly in my opinion). You are reading the Bible with preconceived notions, again you can’t help that but you should recognize it.

        7. And the feeling is likewise. Your opinion of divine love is compliance with anything and everyone. (Except me of course) You have no idea. I am not a product of my environment, I am the result of studying the bible. But who cares about the Bible, apparently it can mean what ever we want it to. God wasn’t smart enough to spell things out clearly, so everyone can just believe anything they feel like it. Enjoy your ignorance, y’all.

        8. We are all a product of our environment. The Bible cannot mean anything whatsoever but we are influenced by our experience and times. It is ignorant to deny that each person sees things differently because of their circumstances and ignorant to think that other people cannot be right because that might make you wrong.

        9. I noticed that you did not bother to comment on the fact that we hold the the KJV as the only Bible that is to be used in all matters of faith and practice.
          — If your assumption is that I am not KJV, you are wrong. I only use the KJV but don’t make an issue of it like you do. My experience is that many people make such a huge issue out of it and spend so much time defending the cover that they neglect proper study on what’s inside.

          The Bible very clearly states that sin came by one man sin entered the world and brought corruption(Romans 5:12-18) It also says that there is sin that works in our members(Romans 7:5) and it also says that in our flesh dwelleth no good thing. Sin is also a choice, glad you picked up on that.
          —Sin entered into the world by Adam’s sin, but it entered my heart, life by my own choice. Was I influenced by a world of sin, sure. But to say that I was born with a sin nature makes God, my Creator, the author of sin in my life – Blasphemy.
          — If no good thing dwells in my flesh, then what about the Holy Spirit? He dwells in my flesh. Is he not good?

          Yes, the Bible says that all those things are works. John 6 Jesus says the work we must do is to believe on him. But you are not being entirely honest when you quote our website are you? it doesn’t stop there. We explain works as sacraments, baptism and man’s traditions. You will find this be in line with Ephesians 2:8,9
          — Thank you for clarifying your stance. Broad brush statement: many IFBers try so hard to say that salvation is not of works that they disregard the need for one to repent and call that a work. Actually to stay on topic a little, I believe Anderson does this.

          Also we believe that the Church is the medium through preaching of the Gospel. I have in no way ever pretended that the Holy Spirit of God was not the major working force. We simply believe that God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that will believe
          — The foolishness of preaching doesn’t have to occur in a local church. It could occur on SFL at the cafeteria at work, at Wal-mart, on the streets, etc. You are confining gospel preaching to the church. In fact, the Bible says that God does not dwell in temples made with hands so why continue pretending that He dwells in your local church?
          Besides that, isn’t your church made of believers? Then why preach the gospel to them if they are already saved?

          So here is what you did. you went to the website and found a couple technicalities that you saw “holes” in and made assumptions.
          — No assumptions. Out of respect for you, I chose to research your church and beliefs and unfortunately found the same holes that this site was created to point out.

          Former Fundy Pastor? Four year degree? You read my testimony? Great stuff but not the issue at hand. I put the testimony for people to read, so good job. Thanks for doing some research, but I am sure you won’t allow me the same courtesy because of your screen name. But it is Ok. I am not ashamed of who and what I am, A Bible Believer. or like Mi ram said “The real thing”
          — No it is not the issue, just a quick joke to ensure you that I did read your site. Maybe the humor was lost in the fonts?
          I am also not ashamed of who I am, but I see no value in sharing my name. It isn’t after all about me but about Christ. However, if it helps you sleep tonight or gives you an opportunity to research me the same way, then all you have to do is ask.

        10. ok… humor is hard to convey via typed word. My apologies for missing it. And I do appreciate the respect to research before you jumped on us.

          Some interesting points. I do not believe that preaching is exclusively in the church, in fact the exact opposite is true. check out this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pcT67511lE
          it will refer you to more

          The Holy Spirit does not dwell in your flesh. Read, 1 John 2:16 to see what I was referring to.

        11. If the Bible is your only authority, why do you preach sermons containing a lot of words and phrases not found in the Bible, and then claim to be an authority (Pastor)? Please explain without using spin and distortion.

        12. Your approach reminds me of a wolf in sheep clothing. You first started out gentle with enticing words, then when disagreement came, you showed your teeth (Evidenced by your comment: “Enjoy your ignorance, y’all.”)

          On the contrary, most here realized how ignorant they were while staying in fundyland. Since leaving they have opened their eyes, heart, mind and in most cases experience the Lord anew without the hindrances of a local church, pastor, etc.

        13. Enticing words? Gentle? Thanks I guess. But now I am being a little rough and frank with y’all and I am now categorized as a wolf in Sheep’s clothing? Amazing stuff there. I have called all manner of names by commenters here and told repeatedly that I am ignorant and foolish and entirely wrong because I am a baptist, but when I respond with a no equal response I am thrown in the messenger of satan pile? Sounds like y’all are more like Anderson than you realize.

        14. It is one thing to be rough and frank, but another to be offensive. Just because someone’s beliefs are different than yours doesn’t mean they are “ignorant” (Your word).

          I never said because you are baptist you are wrong. I never called you a messenger of satan. Your approach to discussion with us is what is in question. Your first comment seemed genuine. You seemed approachable, willing to discuss. Then we discuss, and you say we are ignorant. Now you say we are like “Anderson.”

          The pattern in how your approach is eerily similar to many other IFB pastors who have commented on here.
          Kindness – Welcome Discussion – Disagreement – Verbal Assault – Overreaction – Silence – then I would guess stories/sermon illustrations to your friends as to how you stood up valiantly for the “cause of Christ” and suffered reproach.

          Many on this site would disagree with me on many points and that is okay. That doesn’t mean I think they are ignorant nor do most of them think I am ignorant (although I have never asked what they think…).

        15. Excom, your analysis was wonderful.

          “Kindness – Welcome Discussion – Disagreement – Verbal Assault – Overreaction – Silence – then I would guess stories/sermon illustrations to your friends as to how you stood up valiantly for the “cause of Christ” and suffered reproach.”

    1. I smell Poe all over Kenneth. But just in case I am wrong Kenneth, please keep commenting. I look forward to the flawed logic and terrible theology.

        1. Miriam, I could not click reply to your other comment so I am replying here. I in no way believe that the independent baptist crowd is the means to receive salvation through Jesus Christ. I am saying it is the Bible that points us to Christ. That being said, I am sure there are churches out there who hold to the Scriptures, I am simply saying in my experience, those that hold to it the closest and without failure tend to call themselves independent baptist although not all independent baptists do so at all.

        2. Probably a fair statement. I felt the same way. I have gone to Pentecostal churches to visit, I have met with Catholics, Mormons, JWs, Church of God, Church of Christ, and many more to hear and see what they believe. I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is the only authority, and 99 percent of religion disregards the precepts of the word of God and goes with preference and tradition. (And that includes the IFB churches on many occasions)

        3. Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          without failure tend to call themselves independent baptist although not all independent baptists do so at all…

          ‘…without failure’ and ‘tend’ look like contrary states of being. If some Biblically obedient congregations do not designate themselves as IFB congregations, in what sense would ‘without failure’ still apply?

          Christian Socialist

        4. Read the whole statement…. I said those that hold to the scriptures without failure, tend to call themselves IFB. I should have put a comma in there. I was saying not everyone who holds to the scriptures exclusively , is only an IFB, while pointing out that the ones who do identify themselves as such.

        5. Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          It was not the length but the clarity of your post which was at issue. Your meaning was unclear. The later redaction helped. Thank you.

          Christian Socialist

        6. My problem with that statement is that the majority of IFB actually hold to tradition more than they hold to the scriptures. If you want proof, ask.

        7. Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          I wanted to run something by you in the off chance that you are still following this thread…I don’t mean to be shocking, but I’m genuinely interested to know your take on others’ perceptions of the IFB movement.

          Did you know that there are those who take strong exception to common IFB teaching on theological grounds?

          Across the board, IFB fellowships affirm the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity — and rightly so from any Biblical perspective. But some are convinced that while confessing Jesus’ incarnation, the IFB movement largely empties the incarnation of effective, theological import when considering things such as the nature of our Christian existence, Christian witness, the nature of God’s kingdom, etc.

          Again, the IFB movement uniformly affirms salvation by grace alone. But some understand the IFB gospel as a contractual arrangement in which faith itself becomes meritorious, and our response becomes a secondary offering beside and in addition to the one sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Were you aware of that?

          My admittedly limited and fallible experience suggests that IFB fellowships in the US generally regard the ‘Christian nation’ thesis as plausible and applicable to the United States, at least in its founding. But some believe that this thesis arises directly from Constantine’s Great [heretical] Compromise. Were you aware of that? Some believe that this thesis is based on the premise of accepting both the seal of God and the mark of the best. Were you aware of that?

          On a related point, the IFB movement is substantially dispensational. This system projects much of the theology of the Revelation into the future. Some believe this is done to make theological room for the very compromise John describes under the imagery of the beast, whore and false prophet. Did you know that some see dispensationalism that way?

          My understanding of the IFB movement suggests that it sees itself as the purest expression of Biblical faith there is. But others believe that IFB teaching overlays a host of alien ideologies upon the cross, breaking the theology of the cross and obscuring Jesus Christ. Did you know this? Indeed, there are there are those who believe that to a large degree, the IFB movement is substantially a Gnosticized perversion of Christian faith. Were you aware of that?

          Some believe that to a large extent, the IFB movement is untouched by the gospel and that it is in a pre-converted state. Did you know that some people hold this as a sincere, theological conviction based on study of the Bible and observation of multiple IFB Bible schools, church teachings and writings?

          My question at this point is not whether the IFB movement IS these things, TENDS toward them, or HARBORS them, or knows LAMENTABLY that they exist within their ranks. My query at this point is simply to ask whether you were aware that some people take strong exception to standard [so much as that can be discerned from its multiple representatives] IFB teaching on the ground that they believe [correctly or not] that said teachings violate key Biblical norms.

          So – were you aware of this?

          Christian Socialist

        8. Yes, Christian Socialist, I am aware of those things that you have made mention of. Since you have made it clear that you did not write those issues out for me to debate them, I wont do so. I am aware that there are those that believe that some of the doctrine and theology of the IFB is false or incorrect. I myself agree some items that I have noticed that would be an error on the part of the IFB movement. I have made it as clear as I can on this forum that I identify myself as a Bible Believer. I have never said (and don’t plan to start) that the IFB movement was the correct way on all matters of doctrine. What I did say was that those THAT I KNOW that are true Bible Believers TEND to identify themselves as Independent Baptists. Are there others that hold exclusively and truthfully to the Bible? YES.

          I want to comment on one thing you did say briefly….

          “My understanding of the IFB movement suggests that it sees itself as the purest expression of Biblical faith there is. ”

          This statement can be made for every religion/cult/movement that exists. Some may pretend to be “open minded” but at the end of the day, every person that has a sort of faith believes that they are correct in that faith. If they did not believe it, they would change. So that being said, I have seen errors in the IFB movement both in the conduct and in a few of the doctrines that are promoted, but I identify myself as an independent baptist because I believe that their Fundamentals of the Faith to be in line with the Scriptures overall. I am a student of the Bible, not of the IFB movements teaching. I have said on many occasions in my preaching and in my conversation that I will leave the IFB movement if they cross the line on some of the key important doctrines or standards in the Bible. I have seen things in the IFB that concern and trouble me, but I have withdrawn myself from that and continued on and have kept fellowship with men who exalt the Scriptures over tradition.

        9. Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          Thank you for your observations and for the spirit in which you articulate them. Too often, we have proceeded without care and withholding distinctions necessary to preserve the conscience of others. Others around you could learn from this, and you do not walk an easy road. Anyone can challenge those ‘outside’ our respective camps; but something more is needed to speak with firmness and grace to our own. Personally, I feel that each of us respectively is more responsible for those within our OWN camp than for those without. For me to address these issues with many IFB standard pastors or congregations would accomplish nothing save get up others’ hackles. And again, any idiot can do that. My role would be to affirm you as YOU address the excesses and abuses within your part of the vineyard. And sometimes forgetting that some things must never be compromised, some of my own might do well to take a page from your book.

          Your use of the word ‘tend’ was read with appreciation in the first post where you used it. This is one of those things which allow others who disagree on some points to hold their faith in good conscience. Your observation that every sect sees itself as the purest expression of Biblical faith is correct. The point is valid, but your observation is also needful.

          I would suggest that one of the differences between us [or at least and perhaps more correctly, between the IFB movement and myself] is that you [the IFB movement] go to the Bible first.

          My admittedly limited experience with the IFB movement [apostatized from Bob Jones in my second year] suggests that the Bible is the beginning point for most IFB theological work. It always seemed to me that when one starts with a book, the great question becomes, ‘what does it say.’ As I see it, this results in statements saying, ‘the Bible says …’ followed by whatever affirmation is made. The problem I have with this is that it too easily produces an approach to faith that is thus summed: LAW, LAW, LAW! WORKS, WORKS, WORKS! DUTY, DUTY, DUTY! I have languished in many services wishing for grace and hearing only graceless talk ABOUT grace.

          My starting point for theological work is with the person of God. Beginning with God means that our questions change. Rather than asking, ‘what is written,’ we ask, ‘who is God,’ and ‘what is God like’ and ‘how can I know God’ and ‘how can I live in relationship with God.’ But because we begin with a person – or more aptly – three persons, our whole direction changes dramatically. Now to be sure, we go to the Bible for our answers. So I have no problem saying that the Bible is authoritative in all matters of faith and practice. Do law and duty matter? Of course they do. They matter more than we know. But for me [at least], starting with God opens the way to shaping faith around SPIRIT, LIFE and FAITH.

          Perhaps you will continue to drop in on us.

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

        10. Dear Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          I thought I should make explicit that by no means did I intend to infer that you [personally] gravitate toward a ‘law/works/duty’ philosophy of ministry; I am convinced that there are those who labor against that in context of premises that often take people in the other direction. Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

      1. He is real, and I may even drop in one Sunday morning I find myself in Brunswick, which is not uncommon. My wife and I hit the Golden Isles regularly.

        1. It will be a bit. I have to go to the West Coast and then to the Smokies in Aug. and Sept.

          I will keep you guys in mind the next time we camp along the coast.

    2. I will like you if you are genuine. Fundie or not. Unfortunately, most of the fundamental folks are so focused on legalism rather than the grace that Christ teaches, it’s hard, nay, impossible to take any of them seriously. However, even though we (you and I) have very big religious differences, I am not averse to sitting down and discussing it with you. After all, we are all entitled to an opinion. Including religion or the choice not to believe in anything.

        1. And vice versa. I find that most IFB are not reasonable and expect others to bend to their way of thinking rather than respect others’ opinions and way of life. My roots are extremely pagan. I’ve been the outcast among my family and the fundie church I grew up in for most of my life. I had people tell me that when they read the story of the woman being thrown before Jesus, they thought of me, etc etc. So naturally you can see my contempt for your particular sects ‘kind’. My ancestry is Jewish so what this man says is absolute bullcrap. What I don’t understand is why the Creator does nothing while people like him breathe.

        2. Yes, most IFB churches are not reasonable. That is because most of them have a belief and they don’t know why. I have studied that Bible from front to back and I know why I believe what I believe. So I can be reasonable. I also will be steadfast in my faith, because again I know why I believe what I believe. Lets not confuse reasonable with a pushover either.

        3. There is a fine line, of course. I am glad you believe in what you think and profess to know. When we stand for nothing, we’ll fall for anything. As the old adage goes.

    3. I think Steve Anderson is still very much IFBx, because he continues to generate a following within IFBx churches. He does not have a large church of his own, but syphons members attention from other churches via his videos and antics. There is a percentage of these people who will follow him into such depravity. The IFB needs to do some serious housecleaning so their members will stop being drawn to extremists like Anderson.

  11. I don’t want to see fellow Christians fall, because it damages the cause of the Gospel but sometimes people like Anderson are determined to nose-drive off the highest cliff they can find. There is nothing you can do except watch is morbid fascination as an inevitable chain of events unfolds.

    1. I’m honestly asking a question, why do they do it? Attention? To go down in history as the biggest moron preacher? What? And I highly doubt this man is a genuine Christian. Could just be me though.

  12. “1. Notice the increasingly professional quality of his videos…”

    Maybe the Muslim Brotherhood has been funneling Steve-o some money.

      1. One IFB pastor told me Steve Anderson was targeting college-age youth from his church – sadly, with some success. People this age are technologically astute, which might explain the improved video quality.

        1. How is it ambiguous? A true Bible Believer is one who truly believes what the Bible says on issues. Tell me how that is incorrect.

        2. I did not say it was incorrect. What I said what it is ambiguous. It can mean many things. One person’s “true Bible believer” is another person’s heretic. I know devote, sincere Christians who say the same thing, who would disagree with you on many things so much so that they would not fellowship with you because of what you, as a Baptist, believe. I am trying to point out the insularity of this statement.

        3. Ok, but my point is I am a bible believer before I am a baptist. The bib le is of no private interpretation. I don’t believe what I believe because I am a baptist. I believe what I believe because of what is found in the scriptures. For someone to not fellowship with me because I am a Baptist show their lack of understanding of the Scriptures. Scriptures are the authority, not our denominational distinction. If we are both true Bible Believers, then what is the problem?

        4. The Bible is of necessity interpreted by the reader. You read it and your mind tells you what it means. To quote the private interpretation verse means nothing. It is impossible that what you read is not interpreted by you. The people of whom I speak would not fellowship with you because of what you believe the Bible says. They read the same verses, the same version and come up with something different. They read it prayerfully and I believe you do, but you both come up with different meanings. Who is right? That is my point. To them certain things you hold are heresy. I don’t want to get into specifics because it isn’t necessary. I am trying to point out to you that many people sincerely believe they are right but think the others who think they are equally right, are wrong. To say you are Bible believing is therefore ambiguous. It is not like saying you are 168 cm tall.

        5. There is a difference between being a true believer and being a consistent applier. An unbeliever is someone who reads it, understands it, says it isn’t true. Most IFB churches are pro-war. They believe the Bible when it teaches the sanctity of life. They tend to only believe it when it comes to american babies, not necessarily when it comes to foreigners the US government doesn’t like.

        6. I see what you mean Miriam in that Kenneth is the real deal.

          Kenneth you are a special kind of special aren’t you? You are telling Jay he is not a bible believer based on his denomination. Very classy. And yet above you said you would sit down with anyone who was reasonable. Do you consider this response to Jay as reasonable? If so, you my friend are a hypocrite. But then I am not all that surprised.

        7. Dear Kenneth Seremak Jr(don’t forget the junior):

          Re: http://tinyurl.com/nnab9e7

          You wrote: ‘For someone to not fellowship with me because I am a Baptist show their lack of understanding of the Scriptures.’

          I reply: For someone to not fellowship with me because I am NOT a Baptist shows their lack of understanding of the Scriptures.

          Agree–yes or no, and why?

          Christian Socialist

        8. Kenneth Jr. Seriously, you are wrong. I was an IFB for many, many years, and believed kind of like you do. However, I have found genuine, true believers in many other traditions. Non-IFB Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Bible, Pentecostal, Episcopalian, Eastern Orthodox, and yes, even Catholic.

        9. Apparently putting the word “seriously” in your comment makes it so much more impactful. I understand all the arguments about how other religions say they believe the bible, but frankly do not believe it for what it says. Most believe in works for salvation and they hold tradition above the teachings of the scriptures. You can deny it if you want you(everyone else on here has so far) but it is the truth. Religion overall(including IFB) are so steeped in tradition that they can’t read the bible and understand a word of it. Our church is very different from most IFB churches, but you have never met me or been around us, or visited us to see that. You assume I am the same as all the others. Bob M, you have seen my name, you know where I go to church, you know in which town I live, my phone number is on website, and yet you have never contacted me to find out my stand on issues, but you have the nerve to say I am wrong whole hiding behind an incomplete user name. The majority of commenters on this site hide behind aliases while mocking and railing, that takes a tremendous amount of courage(not)

        10. KSjr, my issue with you is that you insist you are right. End. Of. Humility is a wonderful quality as is understanding that you can be genuinely and sincerely wrong. If a blind man was never told that he was blind, would he know it?

        11. The only way I have claimed to be right was to claim to be believe the bible above church traditions. The bible is right and everything is false when it disagrees. So there is no pride in saying that, only honesty. I have said my opinion was right, I only claimed the scriptures.

        12. Kenneth.

          You said “That being said, I am sure there are churches out there who hold to the Scriptures, I am simply saying in my experience, those that hold to it the closest and without failure tend to call themselves independent baptist although not all independent baptists do so at all”. That is simply untrue. Wrong. And I said Seriously sarcastically. In my experience, and I have been in IFB churches from PA to MI to WI to MN to WV to NC to SC to CA, IFB in the majority of cases, hold to tradition more than they do to the Bible. They major on traditions, like KJV, women’s dress, musical styles, political preferences, and a host of others, more centrally than they do to the major doctrines of the Bible.

        13. Oh, and I did look at your blog. You’re 26 and you are an expert on IFB? Seriously, how broad is your experience with IFB, and how many other churches have you visited and talked to the members to see if they are real believerz?

        14. How many years do I have to put in to make me an expert? 28? (Thanks for that Darrell) A man goes to college or military for 4 years and we expect him to be knowledgable of that stuff afterwards, I been in baptist church all my life and I am not an expert? Ridiculous. Listen, I could supply Darrell with enough stuff in my journey to keep his blog going for years, and that is the stuff I preach against. I believe the bible and REJECT the silly traditions put forth by the IFB churches.

          Also you read my blog and all you had to comment on was my age? Dude…. Your not trying now. Here, let me help you, go look up my blog on church kids, or the one on who is head of the church.

      1. The problem is that you do not believe the Bible. What you believe is your interpretation of the Bible.

        Those are two very, very different things. I am a former IFB, with quite a lot of knowledge from that perspective. And yet, when I tried to prove IFB doctrines even “from the Bible,” I found I failed miserably. It was not for lack of trying.

        The failure to prove IFB doctrines was due to increased honesty in how I handled the Scripture. I decided that a single verse was insufficient to base a doctrine on. Doctrines needed to be rooted in Context. The Fundamentalist way of manufacturing doctrines is to take a verse here, another verse from an entirely unrelated section of Scripture, a snippet from the Psalms or so, tied together with preaching and wrapped fancy as gift that if one doesn’t accept they have become heretics.

        Today I am an Episcopalian. I relish the long, contextual passages of Scripture read at every service, the prayers bathed in Scripture, and yes, even the Eucharist — which you do not understand one whit. Nor could I when I was so steeped in fundamentalism.

        Truth can win out. I am glad of that!

        1. You all are really good at assuming you know what I am and how I approach scriptures. I receive a lot of grief from the IFB churches because I preach against their vain traditions, and misuse of scriptures.

          I totally understand the Eucharist, that’s why I don’t partake in it, but whatever you say.

        2. What you said about the Eucharist shows you don’t understand it at all. You only think you do. But what you said about it is wrong!

          That means you are either mistaken or are a deliberate liar. I prefer to think the former.

          I reassert: you do not actually believe the Bible. You may think you do. But what you actually believe is your interpretation. And your interpretation of Scripture is not the only one, nor is your interpretation necessarily correct above all others.

        3. I guess I am mistaken? Thanks for pointing out how. Thanks for showing me how in the Scripture. Thanks for reassurting that I do not believe what I say I believe. Apparently, I believe something other than the bible and this whole time I was not aware of it. Thanks

        4. Some people are always right, even when they are wrong. Kenneth Junior is obviously one of them.

      1. Anderson speaks to many people in IFBx churches – that is his bread and butter if you will. He says what they think their own pastor is too PC to say – and that is what Anderson tells them too.
        IFBx church members need to stop following Anderson for his influence to diminish.

  13. How can anyone listen to this moron?! My great aunt was sectioned off in the Warsaw ghetto and remembers the day the Gestapo came in and ripped families apart. As a descendant of Jewish heritage, this is extremely offensive that anyone would give this idea any credence. What a loser. I usually don’t throw around statements like the one I’m about to make but there’s a special place in hell for this ‘preacher’. No wonder people are being failed by the church. With knobs like him to teach ludicrous ideals like this….

  14. A friend’s father grew up in northern Europe during the Holocaust. He once told me never to believe anyone who says people didn’t know exactly what was going on. When he was 11 he and his friends used to stand by the railway tracks and watch carload of Jewish people being shipped to the camps. He knew who they were and what was going to happen to them. My point is that there are plenty of people who are still alive who can testify to the horrors of the Holocaust. Do the exact numbers matter? Only in so much as each life affected matters. We know the scope was enormous. Steve Anderson blowing smoke. What is he trying to hide?

  15. I would imagine that this guy looks up to Fred Phelps as some sort of hero. Does this guy still hold church in a store front? If so I wonder if his landlord has grounds to evict him?

  16. OK, I watched the first two minutes.
    That’s enough. A little bit of Steven Anderson goes a long way.
    He massively misunderstands what mainstream history says about the Holocaust, so of course he denies it. His straw man version is indeed untrue.

      1. BJg, as much as I respect you I am going to have to disagree with your last comment. Horse shit is far too inoffensive and even useful to be an apt comparison for whatever this is that Steve-o is peddling.

        BP

  17. Well, if Anderson hasn’t alienated himself totally from fundyland, this’ll do it. Everyone I know in fundyland supported Israel and Jewish people in general as “God’s chosen people.” Color me surprised.

    1. Someone needs to ask Roland Rasmussen and Kent Hovind if they regret their prior collaboration with Steve Anderson. What about that IFB church in Sacramento (Verity Baptist Church) that supports Anderson? Have they dropped their relationship?

      What about those IFBs on Anderson’s list of approved churches? Why does Anderson approve of them, and even more importantly, why haven’t they asked to be removed from this list? I remember being shocked to see my former church on this list, but they were eventually dropped (perhaps by Anderson); perhaps because of this church houses a large IFBx Bible college. However, my pastor’s brother still has his church listed.

      Know anyone on this list?

      https://proxy-nl.hide.me/go.php?u=f%2Fggi8DBMjMrWmzyIKAgMTLW91j6zYySuHIY0dz4J2JCfFKgetvQ1ppS&b=5

  18. Yeah, I used to see Anderson as just your typical fundamentalist, only he was allergic to sugarcoating. Very straightforward, no messing around. Then he seemed to have gained an infatuation for becoming the only existing authority on fringe and pointless subjects.

    1. If you haven’t seen him get tasered at the border, you should really youtube it. It’s pointless as well and then he acts like a martyr for ‘the cause’. It’s humorous.

  19. Yes, and then there is hateful Jim Vineyard. The IFB has let a lot of loonies under their tent.

    Let us not forget that both Roland Rasmussen (WCBC VP Mark Rasmussen’s father) and Kent Hovind have collaborated with Anderson on a video.

  20. “An episcopalian who believes in the sacraments of his/her church for the remission of sin and the priestly class they establish is not a true bible believer. Sorry”

    The sacraments do not forgive or “remit” sin. God forgives sin.

    By the way, in the Episcopal liturgy the confession of sin, and the absolution* come BEFORE before the Holy Communion. The bread and wine are THEN offered to God and blessed and given to the people.

    (*The bishop when present, or the priest, stands and says “Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen.” Book of Common Prayer p. 380)

    Kenneth DFTJ, may I suggest that you actually visit a church of the liturgical tradition some Sunday? Let us know of your experience. Thanks.

    1. Sure…. I will. Jay will you come see us at our church to be fair? I am sure you will also be equally surprised.

      But, I have to say this, the Bible clearly states that there is no need for an earthly priesthood, Jesus Christ is our great high priest. He is the mediator between God and man. I noticed that you quoted a book of prayers, where can I get a copy of this? And do you hold this to be on equal ground with the Scriptures? I am simply asking not accusing.

      1. Here’s where you can peruse the Book of Common Prayer, in use in all Episcopal churches in the United States:

        http://www.bcponline.org/

        (Warning: it’s 1001 pages long! The Eucharist begins on p. 355.)

        The lectionary in the back of the book has been largely replaced by the Revised Common Lectionary, used by Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian and certain other churches. It’s nice to know that the church down the street is reading the same portions of the Bible that your church is reading.

        And no, the BCP is not on “equal ground with the Scriptures.” The BCP is a guide for public and private worship. It has a different purpose. It upholds Scripture and indeed, one of its prayers (p. 236) reads:

        “Blessed Lord, who caused all holy Scriptures to be written for our learning: Grant us so to hear them, read, mark, learn and inwardly digest them, that we may embrace and ever hold fast the blessed hope of everlasting life, which you have given us in our Savior Jesus Christ; who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.”

      2. Does it matter what a minister is called, whether pastor or priest or something else? I think their actions matter more. I have experience with both IFB and Espicopal churches and in my experience it’s the IFB pastors who act more like what that verse means by priest — a mediator between Good and man — than the Episcopalian priests.

  21. Why are we not seeing more IFB pastors publicly separating from Steve Anderson? They separate from each other over all manner of silly reasons, but why not over something as serious as this?

  22. Thanks for putting this up here, Darrell, as I’m putting together a list of Kent Hovind’s associates and I had forgotten that Anderson was one until I clicked to your front page. (Also, thanks for the two Chuck Baldwin posts from 2010 and 2012.) You know Kent Hovind is out of prison and currently on house arrest in Pensacola, right? He’s going on probation on August 11.

    1. Very interesting. I have to see this, but if you don’t mind my asking, where is any of this stuff in the Bible? It sounds very catholic, in fact, The Episcopal is a daughter church of the Church of England, which simply Henry the 8th’s church because Catholics would not give him a divorce. The Episcopal website says that their services are designed for Catholics to feel comfortable as well. Very Interesting. The Eucharist is no where in scripture, there is no infant baptism, and there is no physical priesthood. The Bible is plain on this stuff. So I will read this book of prayers, but the point of the matter is still what I have said all afternoon, the Scripture is the authority. Show me the Mass, Eucharist, priesthood, confirmation, etc in the Bible and I will join you next Sunday. If you can’t then I am sorry but I have no choice to stick with the Scriptures which plainly tell me that their is no works that can merit my salvation, only by the Grace of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8,9

      1. Ayup. We’re catholic, but not Roman Catholic.

        I’ve visited churches in England that date from way before Henry the Eighth. They just kept rolling along, not messing much with old Henry’s political machinations.

        1. ok… well, I am content to stay away from Catholics and I stay away from churches (like the Episcopal) who allow the homosexual crowd to be in their clergy, and call them part of the family of God. I know you mean catholic means universal, but get this, Jesus said the words that he had spoken will judge us in the last days. You better get in the Bible and quit following the vain traditions of you “church”

        2. Surely then, the IFB could follow suit, because they elevate their “traditions” to nearly scriptural levels all of the time. KJV-onlyism, skirts on women, prechin’ which rips verses horrifically out of context to support the pastr’s pet peeve of the week…I could go on…

        3. You are assuming , of course, that , unlike *some* of your fellow fundamentalists, every thing *you* do and say is biblical. Never assume. It can make an ass out of U and me.

      2. Henry Jr, like the Eucharist and infant baptism, church buildings aren’t mentioned in the Bible either (unless you count synagogues or the Temple)

        1. In many circles, infant baptism is simply a promise by the parents to raise the child for God. It is a placing of that child on the ground of promise and telling the world that these are the intentions of the parents.

        2. No, but the number of times you are IN the building can be seen as a good indicator of how effectively your sins have been washed away. (“you only go to church once on Sunday? Are you really saved? Personal experience)

        3. Sorry that should be Kenneth Jr. My old nemesis Otto Korekt has struck again. Apologies.

        4. Everybody will get to know Otto at some stage, as well as his even-more-evil twin brother George….:-)
          (*very* long-standing joke)

          I hope you stick around. Maybe we can learn from each other. This is a forum with a wide range of opinions and beliefs. I would say most people here a Christian, but some are not. They would say so themselves. What we have in common is that we have been through the Fundy mill, or (like myself) something closely resembling it. Some may have managed to stay intact, most have been mangled to some degree, often severely. And it has not been their fault. Please keep that in mind.

  23. People in groups the Nazis had decided to obliterate were taken off the street, driven out past the ‘burbs in windowless vans, shot, and dumped into trenches in the woods. They were rounded up in holding areas (concentration camps) or rerouting stations (transit camps) where disease, cold, hunger, and despair often killed them before the bullets could. They were rounded up as slave labor and worked to death. They were summarily executed for breaking tiny rules, or just because the commandant was having a bad day. They were tortured to death by sadists, or by scientists who might have had higher motives but killed their victims just as horribly. They were told that they were taking showers and gassed instead. These monstrous acts were carried out at an estimated fifteen thousand camps, large and small, throughout Europe. The total number of murders isn’t six million. It may be three times that much. Because the Nazis wanted to obliterate the memory of all those people, it’s difficult to tell. I knew all this when I was in junior high. It’s all recorded in these things called books, which are in these places called libraries, with these little lists in the back called bibliographies and citations.

    Also, Steven Anderson is a lying liar who lies, a stupid person who says stupid things, or in dire need of a checkup from the neck up. Possibly all three.

  24. Surprise, Kenneth DFTJ! God made ’em all! Even folks we might not feel comfortable with. That’s our problem, not God’s problem. Our doors are open!

    We don’t check sexual orientation, political leanings, clothing or anything else when someone walks in the door or comes up to receive Communion. “Come unto me, all you who are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest . . . .”

    1. OK Jay, here’s the issue. The Eucharist does not in any way constitute salvation for anyone anywhere. We are saved by Grace, not the Eucharist. So that being said, According to the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 5: 9-13) we are to put away wicked people from among us. So it is our business. Now if the Eucharist saves you, then I have no problem with them partaking, but you and I both know that is not the case.

      1. The Eucharist does not “save” anyone.

        The word Eucharist means ‘giving thanks.’

        Lift up your hearts!
        [We lift them up to the Lord!]
        Let us give thanks to the Lord our God!
        [It is right to give Him thanks and praise.]

        It is right, and a good and joyful thing, always and everywhere to give thanks to you, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth . . .

        Holy and gracious Father: in your infinite love you made us for yourself; and when we had fallen into sin and become subject to evil and death, you, in your mercy, sent Jesus Christ, your only and eternal Son, to share our human nature, to live and die as one of us, to reconcile us to you, the God and Father of all.

        He stretched out his arms upon the cross and offered himself, in obedience to your will, a perfect sacrifice for the whole world,

        This is the emphasis in the Eucharist. Not lambasting, or pointing out faults, or giving some kind of purity test. We gather to give thanks. At the end of the service we conclude with another prayer of thanks.

        No, the Eucharist doesn’t save anyone. It’s all about giving thanks for our salvation through Jesus.

        1. This is beautiful. The more I hear about the Episcopalian church the more I want to visit one.

        2. @MyKneesAreShowing: Jay is quoting from the American Book of Common Prayer, which contains liturgies, Creeds, Psalms, a daily Scripture reading schedule, etc. The liturgies are themselves stuffed with Biblical quotations. This being the U.S. of A., there are several options for the Eucharist liturgy. I’m partial to the one that includes “Lord, forgive us for coming to your table for solace only and not for strength, for pardon only and not for renewal.” Because the point of eating a meal is to get what you need in order to go on with life. The service ends:

          “Go in peace to love and serve the Lord.”

          “Thanks be to God! Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia!”

        3. Dear MyKneesAreShowing:

          Known as the Great Prayer of Thanksgiving, this ancient prayer draws us into liturgical practice that span millennia. For generations beyond recall, God’s people have found in these words the peace and strength to stand as faithful witnesses another week.

          Years ago, I attended worship with Kswahili speakers. I understood nothing about that service — except the Eucharist. As we prepared to come to the Table of the Lord, everything became intelligible. I knew exactly what was happening in service, and from many years of experience, I heard the Invitation, Great Prayer of Thanksgiving, etc. in my own language from my memory.

          I remember being astonished … to think that around the Table, believers would come together in heart and mind to receive blessing and to witness what God has done for us in Jesus Christ. Who would have imagined 😉

          Christian Socialist

          PS: Stop thinking about this and be a guest at that Anglican church! Let us know how it goes…

    2. Offhand, I can only think of three standards people have to satisfy in order to sit in the pews at my ECUSA church: Don’t interrupt, don’t show more skin than you would be comfortable revealing in broad daylight on a public street, and don’t stink. And if you work in a job that tends to stay with you even after you shower, such as diesel engine repair or fish processing, we’ll waive the last one.

  25. I am posting the names of the pastors on Steve Anderson’s approved list for posterity, because I hope they will each call Anderson and ask to have their names removed. This way we can check back in a few months and see how many IFBs do not mind being associated with Anderson. Perhaps the members of these churches assume their pastor must approve of Anderson since they are listed as an approved church.

    AZ
    Tim Coleman
    M.J. Filenius
    David Berzins
    Neal Holmes
    Vic Crews
    Joseph Stoppelbein

    CA
    Stephen (Steve) Chappell
    Michael Chantigian
    Joe Grande
    Matt Nolan
    Joseph H. Esposito
    Dexter Landers
    Mike Johnson
    Mike Callaghan
    Jim Rossman
    Roger Jimenez
    Tom Hertzel
    Marty Stalnaker
    Todd Brian Herbert
    Greg Bowser
    Brent Strouf
    John J. Evertson

    CO
    Matthew Miller
    Tom Barlament

    CT
    Bill Beck
    Thomas E. Bish

    FL
    Ken Pledger
    Tom Neal
    Ryan Marsh
    Starlight Baptist Church (no pastor named)

    GA
    Charles Ray
    Kenneth Weaver

    IL
    Layne Lashley
    Wayne Matheson
    Matthew Fitch

    IN
    Ken King
    Marc Monte
    Travis Combest
    Arlyn Walters
    Gayle Russ
    Todd Falk
    Todd Poynter
    Larry Harvey
    James Bachman

    IA
    Sean Gomez
    Cecil Ballard

    KS
    Caleb Shipman

    KY
    Tim Schelling
    Jeff Fugate

    LA
    B.G. Buchanan
    Warren Johnson

    MD
    Tim Holeman
    Paul Arcand

    MA
    Keith Phemister
    Lane Briggs

    ME
    Rick Walter

    MI
    Doug Rogers
    John Vaprezsan
    Steve Finn
    Tim Whalen
    James A. Jones

    MN
    John Roloson

    MS
    Dan Carr

    MO
    Ted Hutson

    NV
    Darren Robinson
    Randy Ralstin
    Ray Daugherty
    Richard Cervi

    NJ
    William Gerak
    Jim Gelhausen

    NM
    Clyde Gilman
    Steven Sykes
    Donald Chitty

    NY
    John Morgan
    Don Cosantino
    Tim Young

    NC
    Sandy Bozeman
    Bill Davis
    Joel Bixler
    Charles Carver

    OH
    Tracy Fowler
    Steve Wilson
    George Bell
    Chuck Mainous
    Corey Bane
    Stan Slabaugh
    Philip Hilditch
    David Owens

    OR
    Rick Donley
    Jerry Lindsey

    PA
    Guy Beaumont
    Don Cructher
    Gary Crawford
    Robert Ross
    Marshall Wolverton
    Mark Biter
    Arnold Watts

    RI
    Paul Chapman

    SC
    Merideth Sears

    SD
    Matt Furse

    TN
    Dan Sherwood

    TX
    Donnie Romero
    David Grice
    Carl Carlson
    Bob Gray
    Mike Wells
    James Rasbeary

    UT
    Robert French
    Mike Mullineaux

    VA
    Matthew Nettesheim
    Ron Talley
    Chris Brown

    WA
    Kerby Campbell
    Terry Minge

    WV
    Kevin Arkola
    Jeff Owens

    WI
    Larry Borner
    Dean Noonan

    1. Why haven’t these IFB pastors asked to be removed from this list when Anderson was taunting Border Patrol?
      Or when he prayed for our president to die?
      Or when he suggested gays should be killed?
      Or when he preached women should not get medical care from a male physician?

      This is what Anderson thinks of pastors who do not stand with him:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6x00K2uNfo

        1. Maybe I’m still a bit Fundy, but I did get irritated by the way Anderson, kept slapping his bible against his hands and against the pulpit during his temper tantrum. Seems a disrespectful way to treat the Word of God.

        2. Referring to the rant against “Cowardly Pastors”
          (He was right about one thing, One pastor won’t save a country. Especially if all that pastor spouts is Hate.)

    2. Jeff Fugate, and Bob Gray of FL are the only names I recognize. And these two men are only familiar to me from SFL.

      Conclusion: I’m not a fundy.

      B.R.1

      1. BR1,

        The Bob Gray on this list is from Texas.
        The Florida Bob Gray is a dead, child-molesting-thoughout-his-entire-wicked-pastoral-career-while-Tom-Messer-and-David-Gibbs-helped-cover-it-up IFB pastor.
        I just wanted to clear up any confusion between the two.

        Also, any pastor who preaches repentance as part of salvation is not approved by Steve Anderson. He also does not like most Bible colleges, so I suspect some do not make his list because of their Bible colleges (Paul Chappell, John Wilkerson, Jack Trieber, etc.).

      1. Sure, Anderson separates…but why aren’t more IFBs doing so? Their continued silence about this true evil in their camp is only allowing it to grow.

    1. And also, I barely lasted a couple of minutes with this Anderson guy. His demeanor and voice are deceptively ordinary, the insanity creeps in at a slow burn, ugh. Where has he had his head inserted? Rhetorical question. People such as him are truly dangerous because they always manage to suck in a whole array of discontented deranged incompetents to join them. My only response can be “how long, O Lord, how long?”

  26. I cannot listen to his rants. But his ignorance has reminded me that I really need to take my children to the Holocaust Museum in my area.

    I was born in the 60s (the end of that decade, but still …). It is amazing to me that WWII took place in the 40s, less than 30 years from my birth. That’s the same amount of time it is from now to the 80s, when I was a teenager. Growing up, WWII seemed so very long ago, closer than the Civil War but still far in the past. But it wasn’t. “Civilized”, “modern” people who’d produced philosophy and classical music and scientific achievements had also exhibited depths of depravity and wickedness and it wasn’t a dry, dull page from a history textbook but within reach, so close in the consideration of time. It’s sobering and chilling.

    1. Not too long ago, I observed that I was born closer in time to World War II than to the present, and someone pointed out that I was also born closer to World War I than to the present.

      Wasn’t it Faulkner who said, “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”?

    1. Where did he find a barber who would do that to his hair? It’s like the shears just stopped about an inch above his ears.

  27. I think we’ll see Stephen Anderson on SFL a few more times. If he’s getting funding, it’s because of HuffPro. Eventually, he will do something that will demand national attention. When, and if, that day comes, just try to avoid writing about him! I don’t think it will be possible.

  28. There’s two people in this world I like to make fun of and/or ridicule; Steven Anderson and Justin Bieber. So…..

    1. Anderson uses the typical “He that answereth a matter before he heareth it…” which is just the fundy way of saying “I’m right, here’s why, and if you disagree with me then your just not right with god because you didn’t obey his command”. It also says “cast not they pearls before swine…” which is why I will never answer him person or on the internet in any way.

    2. He claims to not be a racist. So because he said it, it must be true.

    3. The plaque thing is true but it matters very little. The 6 million number never included the 4 million from the original plaque. Most investigators and scholars never believed the 4 million number from that plaque and placed it closer to a million. Nor did everyone believe all of the jews killed were gassed and cremated.

    4. He freely admits that Hitler hated and wanted to exterminate the jews. Why then would he not believe the Third Reich carried out that goal? Because Steven Anderson.

    As for Justin Bieber, he went to Anne Franks house and made the statement “She would have been a Belieber”. Before that I didn’t have an opinion on him as he was just another pop star I didn’t care about. That statement though shows you don’t have to be a fundie to be an complete idiot.

    1. The Anne Frank House anecdote is sort of all you need to know about the Biebs, isn’t it?
      He’s somehow convinced that even Anne Frank’s story is somehow about him.

      1. I’d like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and take his remark as “If she hadn’t been forced into hiding and then murdered, she would’ve been a fan of whoever filled my slot in pop culture around here back then, and the murderers robbed her of ordinary teenage things like that.” But I don’t know enough about Bieber to know whether I’m being overgenerous.

  29. Dear Darrell:

    You wrote: this will likely be the last time I reference Steven Anderson on this blog.

    Does this mean no more references to walls, squatting and other motifs associated with Andersonian toilet-seated potty humor?

    Christian Socialist

  30. Steve Anderson is a conspiracy theorist. His association with Alex Jones is a good indicator. I don’t know if Alex Jones claims to be a Christian or even realizes what craziness Anderson’s brand of Christianity entails, but it seems that Anderson is willing to overlook certain differences as long as people support his conspiracy theories. Personally, I try to keep an open mind when it comes to politics, but this kind of crap is beyond me. He’s jumped off the deep end where EVERYTHING that he dislikes (police, government, Obama, birth control, evolution, the LGBT, Jews, etc.) are all linked together in some mysterious way that’s only obvious to him. He conveniently ignores the rest of the world (Africa, Asia, what are those?! They don’t count at all in the grand scheme of things. God must’ve created them as afterthoughts ). I think he’s successfully brainwashed himself.

  31. I’ve studied enough history, listened to enough tales, and visited enough sites in Europe not to bother with the Holocaust deniers.

    But, I wanted to ask DFT Jr. about the Episcopal Church. Do other churches appoint only those completely free from any “sin” to be pastor? No. They don’t. So why can’t sometime who is gay be a pastor? Are we assuming that if they are gay they are sleeping around? If so, shall we assume that if someone is heterosexual they are sleeping around? Perhaps only eunuchs should be pastors. Seriously though, WHY is homosexuality a bigger sin than gluttony, or lack of love, or refusing to care for the poor? I’m not trying to start an argument, and I’m not gay; I just want to know from a reasonable IFB pastor why this is the sin to target.

    1. Homosexuality is what the Scripture refers to as an abomination. It is a sin that God calls unnatural even for our flesh. So that being said, the issue is not a gay person sleeping around, it is the sin of sodomy itself. I, as a preacher am only addressing the homo issue with the due attention I see our society giving it currently.
      But, Paul clearly lays out some guide lines in Timothy and Titus for taking the office of pastor. There are quite a few things that disqualify many of people in the ministry today. Many “pastors” would have to step down if they truly wanted to follow the scriptures, many of them don’t really don’t bother with the pesky bible, so they go on.

      1. Being a homosexual, though, does NOT mean that you have committed sodomy. Just as I am a heterosexual, but have not committed adultery.

        If a man is attracted to other men, but does not act on those feelings, is he then NOT gay? And if he is attracted to men, but did not act on that attraction, is he disqualified from pastoring? If so, why are other men, who are attracted to women, but without acting on those feelings, not disqualified?

        My daughter went to a VBS at a local Baptist Church. I doubt I’ll send her back next year. She says they told her that if she didn’t want to do her chores, that was a sin. She asked, what if she did the chores, but didn’t want to, was that still sin? And they told her yes, it was. Your argument is the same thing. Wanting is not sin. Doing is sin.

        1. What about homosexual men who are in relationships but who do not commit the particular acts classified as “sodomy”? Are they still committing abominations by being in a relationship? Are lesbians? What about married heterosexual couples who commit sodomy? How are we, without extensive historical knowledge, entirely certain which activities were thought of as perversions by the writers of the Bible? What if the translators of the original documents got it wrong? There seems to me to be too much uncertainty around the idea to go making iron-clad condemnations of other people.

      2. For many like Anderson there is NO difference between being attracted to someone if the same sex and committing the abominable act of “sodomy”. He also claims that *ALL* “homos” – every single one – are pedophiles. No exceptions. He was challenged about that statement by a reporter who admitted that he was Gay, but no, he did not rape little boys. Anderson flat out called him a liar. Very Biblical. (I will hunt out an article about that encounter)

        1. (Examples of people who should have stepped down from ministry according to scripture?)

      3. “Many “pastors” would have to step down if they truly wanted to follow the scriptures, many of them don’t really don’t bother with the pesky bible, so they go on.”

        There are lot of IFB pastors who no longer qualify for their positions, but this portion of Scripture seems to be more strictly applied to IFB enemies.

        1. I would correct that slightly. To Anderson, and I would say most IFB members, not just pastors, I the Licence to hate faggots is not a theological one but a Biblical one, but is still based around the use of one word.

      4. By the way, pride is an abomination to the Lord, and that issue is spoken of so much more than homosexual sin in the Scriptures! Other abominations include wearing mixed fibers, eating shellfish and lying. Funny that those sins are so easily tolerated!

        As for my not telling you *HOW* you are wrong about Eucharist, it isn’t my job to give you lessons in theology. I suggest you exert yourself to find out.

        Besides, you don’t seem the type to accept other explanations, seeing that some have already been given and they haven’t made a difference! So it is up to you. Study. There is always more to learn.

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